Incarnations Of Lord Shiva-rohiniranjan

November 11, 2004

Dear Rohiniranjan,

pranam.

> How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-shakti'

>expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as claimed by

>Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> Curious,

> RR

Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

Shared by Victor...

Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you wish)

I believe these two stories are "important" for the record.

Especially in light of the recent controversy that has come across

on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send these two

stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18 siddha kriya yoga

tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future Prema Sai

Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56 and 73. On

page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the actual date

of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words, he feels

Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an Avatar.

Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's DESTINY for

the new age that these different Babaji groups eventually recognize

each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence of the

other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride a bicycle

at the same time?

I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian sarod musician

Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are long-time

devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended periods of

time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she and her

daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had each bought a

copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was available

at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They had both sat

down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page through the

book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came walking down the

pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the cover of the

book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then to himself a

couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

For the record I asked her what she took his statement "the same, the

same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he meant they

were at the same spiritual level or had a similar spiritual mission.

The family has many objects which Sai Baba has materialized for them

over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva lingams that

look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use on her

alter for puja and aarati.

- VF (New York)

PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and her

daughter when they were visiting New York several years ago. One

adult son is living in Manhattan.

>From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji, Jesus, and Sai

Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They were together

on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back with

stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai Baba a

letter. I thought that was unusal since they could obviously

communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be playing games.

And then I would go to North India to see Babaji, occasionally

wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see Sai Baba and

finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in Haidakhan

and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on earth -

and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a Sai Baba

devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his guru, Sai

Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very immense

mission." It was apparently said with tremendous respect. I was

pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working together...just

like the LRT trainers worked together, our different personalities

resulting in different missions, different types of situations that

attracted different types of students.

Note: Besides being know for many healings and materializations, Sai

Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees have seen

him both in visions and physically many times over the years in

different countries.

This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar, had "projected" a

second body in Haidakhan.

*****************************

Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 11, 2004

Dear Shad,

I have not read Mr. Govindan's book (his name was referred to by me

based on what I read about him on the web or some list where it is

mentioned that he is the latest experiencer of 'Babaji' -- and also

that he broke off from the Mainstream of Yoganandaji's ashram, with

which also I have no direct contact or allegience -- so any sharing

and jolting or whatever else you judge appropriate would have to be

done by you directly with them ;-)

The shiva reference quoted from my message comes from the biography

series written by a shishya of Sai Baba in a series of books.

Thanks for sharing these anecdotes and stories that have been told to

you and kindly shared with us. All of these Babajis and Lord Shiva

are so much higher and have possibly such a different frame of

reference than most of us ordinary mortals (bhakts and non-bhaktas)

that to me it seems a waste of time analyzing their words and

conjecturing what they meant. This is not to say that some of the

devotees such as the ones you described are not capable of doing so

in their personal framework of reality. But, there is no value in

that for most ordinary mortals who probably must experience and focus

more on the essential experience. I mean who really cares if there

are two or two million expressions of Shiva Shakti in this Universe?

I mean we humans have enough difficulty counting humans in census in

some countries with large populations, not to mention in counting

wildlife accurately, so when it gets to magical manifestations and

divine appearances and suchlike, bean-counting just does not cut it,

not that it would stop just because I think so ;-)

Peace,

RR

, "Shad" <waterpowers>

wrote:

>

> Dear Rohiniranjan,

> pranam.

>

> > How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-shakti'

> >expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as claimed by

> >Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> > Curious,

> > RR

>

> Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

>

> Shared by Victor...

> Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you wish)

>

> I believe these two stories are "important" for the record.

> Especially in light of the recent controversy that has come across

> on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send these two

> stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18 siddha kriya

yoga

> tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future Prema Sai

> Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56 and 73. On

> page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the actual date

> of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words, he feels

> Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an Avatar.

> Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's DESTINY for

> the new age that these different Babaji groups eventually recognize

> each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence of the

> other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride a bicycle

> at the same time?

> I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

>

> Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

>

> Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian sarod musician

> Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are long-time

> devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended periods of

> time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she and her

> daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had each bought a

> copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was available

> at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

> The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They had both sat

> down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page through the

> book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came walking down

the

> pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the cover of

the

> book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then to himself

a

> couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

>

> For the record I asked her what she took his statement "the same,

the

> same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he meant they

> were at the same spiritual level or had a similar spiritual

mission.

> The family has many objects which Sai Baba has materialized for

them

> over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva lingams that

> look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use on her

> alter for puja and aarati.

>

> - VF (New York)

>

> PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and her

> daughter when they were visiting New York several years ago. One

> adult son is living in Manhattan.

>

> >From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

>

> More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji, Jesus, and Sai

> Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They were

together

> on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back with

> stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai Baba a

> letter. I thought that was unusal since they could obviously

> communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be playing games.

> And then I would go to North India to see Babaji, occasionally

> wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see Sai Baba

and

> finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in Haidakhan

> and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on earth -

> and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a Sai Baba

> devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his guru, Sai

> Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

> replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very immense

> mission." It was apparently said with tremendous respect. I was

> pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working together...just

> like the LRT trainers worked together, our different personalities

> resulting in different missions, different types of situations that

> attracted different types of students.

>

> Note: Besides being know for many healings and materializations,

Sai

> Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees have seen

> him both in visions and physically many times over the years in

> different countries.

> This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar, had "projected" a

> second body in Haidakhan.

>

> *****************************

> Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 12, 2004

Dear Shad,

Do we have horoscopic details of Babajis?

Inder

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

>

> Dear Shad,

>

> I have not read Mr. Govindan's book (his name was referred to by

me

> based on what I read about him on the web or some list where it is

> mentioned that he is the latest experiencer of 'Babaji' -- and

also

> that he broke off from the Mainstream of Yoganandaji's ashram,

with

> which also I have no direct contact or allegience -- so any

sharing

> and jolting or whatever else you judge appropriate would have to

be

> done by you directly with them ;-)

>

> The shiva reference quoted from my message comes from the

biography

> series written by a shishya of Sai Baba in a series of books.

>

> Thanks for sharing these anecdotes and stories that have been told

to

> you and kindly shared with us. All of these Babajis and Lord Shiva

> are so much higher and have possibly such a different frame of

> reference than most of us ordinary mortals (bhakts and non-

bhaktas)

> that to me it seems a waste of time analyzing their words and

> conjecturing what they meant. This is not to say that some of the

> devotees such as the ones you described are not capable of doing

so

> in their personal framework of reality. But, there is no value in

> that for most ordinary mortals who probably must experience and

focus

> more on the essential experience. I mean who really cares if there

> are two or two million expressions of Shiva Shakti in this

Universe?

> I mean we humans have enough difficulty counting humans in census

in

> some countries with large populations, not to mention in counting

> wildlife accurately, so when it gets to magical manifestations and

> divine appearances and suchlike, bean-counting just does not cut

it,

> not that it would stop just because I think so ;-)

>

> Peace,

>

> RR

>

> , "Shad" <waterpowers>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rohiniranjan,

> > pranam.

> >

> > > How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-shakti'

> > >expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as claimed

by

> > >Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> > > Curious,

> > > RR

> >

> > Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

> >

> > Shared by Victor...

> > Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you wish)

> >

> > I believe these two stories are "important" for the record.

> > Especially in light of the recent controversy that has come

across

> > on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send these

two

> > stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18 siddha kriya

> yoga

> > tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future Prema

Sai

> > Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56 and 73.

On

> > page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the actual

date

> > of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words, he

feels

> > Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an Avatar.

> > Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's DESTINY for

> > the new age that these different Babaji groups eventually

recognize

> > each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence of the

> > other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride a

bicycle

> > at the same time?

> > I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

> >

> > Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

> >

> > Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian sarod

musician

> > Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are long-

time

> > devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended periods

of

> > time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she and her

> > daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had each bought

a

> > copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was

available

> > at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

> > The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They had both

sat

> > down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page through

the

> > book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came walking down

> the

> > pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the cover of

> the

> > book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then to

himself

> a

> > couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

> >

> > For the record I asked her what she took his statement "the

same,

> the

> > same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he meant

they

> > were at the same spiritual level or had a similar spiritual

> mission.

> > The family has many objects which Sai Baba has materialized for

> them

> > over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva lingams that

> > look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use on her

> > alter for puja and aarati.

> >

> > - VF (New York)

> >

> > PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and her

> > daughter when they were visiting New York several years ago. One

> > adult son is living in Manhattan.

> >

> > >From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

> >

> > More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji, Jesus, and

Sai

> > Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They were

> together

> > on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back with

> > stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai Baba a

> > letter. I thought that was unusal since they could obviously

> > communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be playing

games.

> > And then I would go to North India to see Babaji, occasionally

> > wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see Sai Baba

> and

> > finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in

Haidakhan

> > and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on earth -

> > and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a Sai Baba

> > devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his guru,

Sai

> > Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

> > replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very immense

> > mission." It was apparently said with tremendous respect. I was

> > pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working

together...just

> > like the LRT trainers worked together, our different

personalities

> > resulting in different missions, different types of situations

that

> > attracted different types of students.

> >

> > Note: Besides being know for many healings and materializations,

> Sai

> > Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees have

seen

> > him both in visions and physically many times over the years in

> > different countries.

> > This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar, had "projected"

a

> > second body in Haidakhan.

> >

> > *****************************

> > Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 12, 2004

Dear Inder,

pranam!

> Dear Shad,

> Do we have horoscopic details of Babajis?

> Inder

No, because he wasn't born, but appeared as a twenty year old men.

As I know he doesn't take birth, but simply 'shows up', materializes

His body, but doesn't take birth.

His last incarnation was short, he didn't stay very long.

He could materialize His body. There is proof that for example He

was at kumba meela and simultaneously at a 1000km distance place.

People have seen Him at both places at the same time!

No karma to study here, sorry

Best regards,

Shad

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shad,

> >

> > I have not read Mr. Govindan's book (his name was referred to by

> me

> > based on what I read about him on the web or some list where it

is

> > mentioned that he is the latest experiencer of 'Babaji' -- and

> also

> > that he broke off from the Mainstream of Yoganandaji's ashram,

> with

> > which also I have no direct contact or allegience -- so any

> sharing

> > and jolting or whatever else you judge appropriate would have to

> be

> > done by you directly with them ;-)

> >

> > The shiva reference quoted from my message comes from the

> biography

> > series written by a shishya of Sai Baba in a series of books.

> >

> > Thanks for sharing these anecdotes and stories that have been

told

> to

> > you and kindly shared with us. All of these Babajis and Lord

Shiva

> > are so much higher and have possibly such a different frame of

> > reference than most of us ordinary mortals (bhakts and non-

> bhaktas)

> > that to me it seems a waste of time analyzing their words and

> > conjecturing what they meant. This is not to say that some of

the

> > devotees such as the ones you described are not capable of doing

> so

> > in their personal framework of reality. But, there is no value

in

> > that for most ordinary mortals who probably must experience and

> focus

> > more on the essential experience. I mean who really cares if

there

> > are two or two million expressions of Shiva Shakti in this

> Universe?

> > I mean we humans have enough difficulty counting humans in

census

> in

> > some countries with large populations, not to mention in

counting

> > wildlife accurately, so when it gets to magical manifestations

and

> > divine appearances and suchlike, bean-counting just does not cut

> it,

> > not that it would stop just because I think so ;-)

> >

> > Peace,

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , "Shad"

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohiniranjan,

> > > pranam.

> > >

> > > > How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-shakti'

> > > >expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as

claimed

> by

> > > >Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> > > > Curious,

> > > > RR

> > >

> > > Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

> > >

> > > Shared by Victor...

> > > Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you wish)

> > >

> > > I believe these two stories are "important" for the record.

> > > Especially in light of the recent controversy that has come

> across

> > > on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send these

> two

> > > stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18 siddha

kriya

> > yoga

> > > tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future Prema

> Sai

> > > Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56 and 73.

> On

> > > page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the actual

> date

> > > of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words, he

> feels

> > > Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an

Avatar.

> > > Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's DESTINY

for

> > > the new age that these different Babaji groups eventually

> recognize

> > > each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence of

the

> > > other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride a

> bicycle

> > > at the same time?

> > > I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

> > >

> > > Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

> > >

> > > Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian sarod

> musician

> > > Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are long-

> time

> > > devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended

periods

> of

> > > time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she and

her

> > > daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had each

bought

> a

> > > copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was

> available

> > > at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

> > > The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They had

both

> sat

> > > down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page through

> the

> > > book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came walking

down

> > the

> > > pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the cover

of

> > the

> > > book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then to

> himself

> > a

> > > couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

> > >

> > > For the record I asked her what she took his statement "the

> same,

> > the

> > > same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he meant

> they

> > > were at the same spiritual level or had a similar spiritual

> > mission.

> > > The family has many objects which Sai Baba has materialized

for

> > them

> > > over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva lingams

that

> > > look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use on

her

> > > alter for puja and aarati.

> > >

> > > - VF (New York)

> > >

> > > PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and her

> > > daughter when they were visiting New York several years ago.

One

> > > adult son is living in Manhattan.

> > >

> > > >From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

> > >

> > > More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji, Jesus, and

> Sai

> > > Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They were

> > together

> > > on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back with

> > > stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai Baba a

> > > letter. I thought that was unusal since they could obviously

> > > communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be playing

> games.

> > > And then I would go to North India to see Babaji, occasionally

> > > wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see Sai

Baba

> > and

> > > finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in

> Haidakhan

> > > and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on earth -

> > > and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a Sai Baba

> > > devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his guru,

> Sai

> > > Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

> > > replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very immense

> > > mission." It was apparently said with tremendous respect. I

was

> > > pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working

> together...just

> > > like the LRT trainers worked together, our different

> personalities

> > > resulting in different missions, different types of situations

> that

> > > attracted different types of students.

> > >

> > > Note: Besides being know for many healings and

materializations,

> > Sai

> > > Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees have

> seen

> > > him both in visions and physically many times over the years

in

> > > different countries.

> > > This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar,

had "projected"

> a

> > > second body in Haidakhan.

> > >

> > > *****************************

> > > Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 17, 2004

Dear Shad,

I beg to disagree with you.

Universal law is God.

Nobody is beyond universal law. I, you and he and everybody is God.

Some may be ordanary and some may be highly charismatic.

Astrological laws are also applicable to every body.Everything is as

per divine law.

In this expanding universe everything material ,soul, energy etc are

recycled as per divine law.

Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old cliche'.Nothing is in

danger.

BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants kingdom and

envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

Inder

In , "Shad" <waterpowers>

wrote:

>

> Dear Inder,

> pranam!

>

> > Dear Shad,

> > Do we have horoscopic details of Babajis?

> > Inder

>

> No, because he wasn't born, but appeared as a twenty year old men.

> As I know he doesn't take birth, but simply 'shows up',

materializes

> His body, but doesn't take birth.

> His last incarnation was short, he didn't stay very long.

>

> He could materialize His body. There is proof that for example He

> was at kumba meela and simultaneously at a 1000km distance place.

> People have seen Him at both places at the same time!

>

> No karma to study here, sorry

>

> Best regards,

> Shad

>

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shad,

> > >

> > > I have not read Mr. Govindan's book (his name was referred to

by

> > me

> > > based on what I read about him on the web or some list where

it

> is

> > > mentioned that he is the latest experiencer of 'Babaji' -- and

> > also

> > > that he broke off from the Mainstream of Yoganandaji's ashram,

> > with

> > > which also I have no direct contact or allegience -- so any

> > sharing

> > > and jolting or whatever else you judge appropriate would have

to

> > be

> > > done by you directly with them ;-)

> > >

> > > The shiva reference quoted from my message comes from the

> > biography

> > > series written by a shishya of Sai Baba in a series of books.

> > >

> > > Thanks for sharing these anecdotes and stories that have been

> told

> > to

> > > you and kindly shared with us. All of these Babajis and Lord

> Shiva

> > > are so much higher and have possibly such a different frame of

> > > reference than most of us ordinary mortals (bhakts and non-

> > bhaktas)

> > > that to me it seems a waste of time analyzing their words and

> > > conjecturing what they meant. This is not to say that some of

> the

> > > devotees such as the ones you described are not capable of

doing

> > so

> > > in their personal framework of reality. But, there is no value

> in

> > > that for most ordinary mortals who probably must experience

and

> > focus

> > > more on the essential experience. I mean who really cares if

> there

> > > are two or two million expressions of Shiva Shakti in this

> > Universe?

> > > I mean we humans have enough difficulty counting humans in

> census

> > in

> > > some countries with large populations, not to mention in

> counting

> > > wildlife accurately, so when it gets to magical manifestations

> and

> > > divine appearances and suchlike, bean-counting just does not

cut

> > it,

> > > not that it would stop just because I think so ;-)

> > >

> > > Peace,

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , "Shad"

> <waterpowers>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rohiniranjan,

> > > > pranam.

> > > >

> > > > > How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-shakti'

> > > > >expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as

> claimed

> > by

> > > > >Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> > > > > Curious,

> > > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

> > > >

> > > > Shared by Victor...

> > > > Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you wish)

> > > >

> > > > I believe these two stories are "important" for the record.

> > > > Especially in light of the recent controversy that has come

> > across

> > > > on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send

these

> > two

> > > > stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18 siddha

> kriya

> > > yoga

> > > > tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future

Prema

> > Sai

> > > > Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56 and

73.

> > On

> > > > page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the

actual

> > date

> > > > of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words, he

> > feels

> > > > Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an

> Avatar.

> > > > Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's DESTINY

> for

> > > > the new age that these different Babaji groups eventually

> > recognize

> > > > each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence of

> the

> > > > other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride a

> > bicycle

> > > > at the same time?

> > > > I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

> > > >

> > > > Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

> > > >

> > > > Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian sarod

> > musician

> > > > Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are

long-

> > time

> > > > devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended

> periods

> > of

> > > > time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she and

> her

> > > > daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had each

> bought

> > a

> > > > copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was

> > available

> > > > at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

> > > > The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They had

> both

> > sat

> > > > down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page

through

> > the

> > > > book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came walking

> down

> > > the

> > > > pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the

cover

> of

> > > the

> > > > book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then to

> > himself

> > > a

> > > > couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

> > > >

> > > > For the record I asked her what she took his statement "the

> > same,

> > > the

> > > > same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he

meant

> > they

> > > > were at the same spiritual level or had a similar spiritual

> > > mission.

> > > > The family has many objects which Sai Baba has materialized

> for

> > > them

> > > > over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva lingams

> that

> > > > look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use on

> her

> > > > alter for puja and aarati.

> > > >

> > > > - VF (New York)

> > > >

> > > > PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and her

> > > > daughter when they were visiting New York several years ago.

> One

> > > > adult son is living in Manhattan.

> > > >

> > > > >From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

> > > >

> > > > More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji, Jesus,

and

> > Sai

> > > > Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They were

> > > together

> > > > on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back

with

> > > > stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai Baba

a

> > > > letter. I thought that was unusal since they could obviously

> > > > communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be playing

> > games.

> > > > And then I would go to North India to see Babaji,

occasionally

> > > > wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see Sai

> Baba

> > > and

> > > > finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in

> > Haidakhan

> > > > and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on earth -

> > > > and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a Sai

Baba

> > > > devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his

guru,

> > Sai

> > > > Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

> > > > replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very

immense

> > > > mission." It was apparently said with tremendous respect. I

> was

> > > > pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working

> > together...just

> > > > like the LRT trainers worked together, our different

> > personalities

> > > > resulting in different missions, different types of

situations

> > that

> > > > attracted different types of students.

> > > >

> > > > Note: Besides being know for many healings and

> materializations,

> > > Sai

> > > > Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees have

> > seen

> > > > him both in visions and physically many times over the years

> in

> > > > different countries.

> > > > This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar,

> had "projected"

> > a

> > > > second body in Haidakhan.

> > > >

> > > > *****************************

> > > > Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 18, 2004

Dear Inder,

pranam.

>Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old cliche'.Nothing is in

>danger.

Please watch every day what you are doing as a society. While you

sit by and watch your constitution being torn away from you, you

willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured products no one needs

and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of people suffering and

dying all around you. Is this the "Universal Law" we to?

Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one will like

us in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of

lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep.

I live in Croatia, former Yugoslavia. You may be aware that shortly

ago a terrible war was going on. Before this war had started we made

many seminars on the teachings of Siddhanta and tried to bring the

people the basics of teachings, like karma closer. When I said to

the people that we live in a society of destructive group dynamics

and such a society lives in danger many of them told me the same, as

you did above. `This is very old cliché. Nothing is in danger.' They

used to say that's all esoteric bla-bla. `We can kill and eat as

many animals as we want, have any attitude as we like to, no matter

if positive or negative. If there is a God and His laws, then He

gave us the freedom to do what we want to. If He wouldn't like what

we do, He would stop us – so everything must be ok. That merely is a

cliché to keep us people in fear, to make us stick to the religious

rules and esoteric.'

Although people don't believe we live in danger with such

consciousness and destructive group dynamics in my homeland a

terrible civil war broke out. The people became beasts, the worst

and ugly crimes of war occurred here. Neighbors shot their former

friends, only because one was Croat and the other Serb. Pregnant

women were killed, and their babies taken out of the wombs… the

people never believe they live in danger. When they see war, they

think this happens to the others, it will never happen to us. In my

country never ever anyone believed a civil war could occur. And that

neighbors would start killing and shooting each other houses.

We may not believe, but once the law of karma goes for it, there

will be no mercy.

So when sadhus like Haidakhan Babaji warn the people they should

change their consciousness, because they run in danger to kill each

others in war, this is righteous – believe me. Mahatma Gandhi

said `As long as there will be slaughterhouses, there will be

battlefields'.

Millions of animals are killed daily on the most horrible ways, only

to satisfy our needs of taste and pleasure, not because we need this

meat to survive. Not regarding the terrible animal testing, so our

wives can buy beautiful cosmetic products, or for us any kind of

medical remedies can be invented.

Do you really this killing and slaughtering and torturing will leave

us people without reaction or result? We will not get the bill for

all this – because we merely believe this is only a cliché. I

wouldn't be so sure about it…

>BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants kingdom and

>envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

No animal on this planet has such a destructive way of

living or attitude towards nature and its fellows, as

we do.

Either we kill each other with these terrible weapons,

just a question of time when the mass-destruction

weapons will come to use, or we will kill ourselves

due to the excessive destructive energy forms, which

melt our poles and heat up the planet in a suicidal

speed.

If we had a spark of conscience in or heads, we would

undertake something against this for our children's

and grandchildren's sake. But our heritage to them is

nuclear waste and a by greed and stupidity destroyed

planet.

Our surroundings only are a mirror of our

consciousness!

The rubbish we carry inside comes out and creates our

Environment

>Why worry about humanity?

Because animals and plants do not owe intelligence and

discrimination, as we human do. God trusted us something, to take

care of these animals and plants, but we ignorant sheep and fools

destroy everything.

We shouldn't be surprised if one day Lord Siva will perform His

beautiful dance to put an end to this creation or madness.

We MUST worry about us, humanity. Because we have the consciousness

with which something can be changed. Not the animals or nature

destroys us, but vice versa.

And WE will have to take consequence for this, karma. And this might

end terribly, in horrible wars. We will be slaughtered in the same

way, we do it with the animals in the slaughterhouses.

Tell me one single reason why God should spare us, when we have no

mercy for fellow being, like the animals and human around us?!

>Universal law is God.

What do you mean with this?

In new age philosophy this term often is used, but everybody has a

different understanding of this, and mostly it is simply

sentimental. For me the universal law is what is taught us in the

teachings of sanatana dharma.

>I, you and he and everybody is God.

>Some may be ordanary and some may be highly charismatic.

Really?

Bhavat Geeta teaches different – Krishna says to Arjuna that we are

jiva-tattva, and God is Vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva.

Jiva tattva may be in illusion and can be entangled in the wheel of

birth and death. Vishnu- and siva-tattva, which means God, never

falls in illusion and will never entangle in the wheel of birth and

death, and karma.

To put us jives on the same level like God really isn't wise. Which

means as you say above one may be more charismatic God, another one

is an ordinary God – does this mean we are on the same level like

Narayana and Siva??

That is a great illusion, if you ask me. The soul is spiritual and

eternal, such as God is, but this absolutely doesn't mean that you

and I and other are God.

Here is the problem, that we all behave like Gods, because we have

FORGOTTEN about God.

How can we worship God and respect Him, when we think WE ARE God?!

>Astrological laws are also applicable to every body.Everything is as

>per divine law.

I am no expert in astrology. Only know that when someone achieves

the transcendental level, which is beyond karma and guna, the same

will no more have influence on that person. God Himself will take

care of that person.

Haidakhan Baba did not take birth, He simply appeared. So I don't

know how birthday and -time can be defined here…

But to say His teachings only are a cliché in my eyes looks arrogant

and absurd. Nothing personal against you, but I think we must change

such attitude and change something.

Because once in the death-bed things will be too late.

Kind regards,

Shad

, "Inder"

<indervohra2001> wrote:

>

> Dear Shad,

> I beg to disagree with you.

> Universal law is God.

> Nobody is beyond universal law. I, you and he and everybody is God.

> Some may be ordanary and some may be highly charismatic.

> Astrological laws are also applicable to every body.Everything is

as

> per divine law.

> In this expanding universe everything material ,soul, energy etc

are

> recycled as per divine law.

>

> Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old cliche'.Nothing is in

> danger.

>

> BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants kingdom and

> envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

>

> Inder

>

> In , "Shad" <waterpowers>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Inder,

> > pranam!

> >

> > > Dear Shad,

> > > Do we have horoscopic details of Babajis?

> > > Inder

> >

> > No, because he wasn't born, but appeared as a twenty year old

men.

> > As I know he doesn't take birth, but simply 'shows up',

> materializes

> > His body, but doesn't take birth.

> > His last incarnation was short, he didn't stay very long.

> >

> > He could materialize His body. There is proof that for example

He

> > was at kumba meela and simultaneously at a 1000km distance

place.

> > People have seen Him at both places at the same time!

> >

> > No karma to study here, sorry

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Shad

> >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shad,

> > > >

> > > > I have not read Mr. Govindan's book (his name was referred

to

> by

> > > me

> > > > based on what I read about him on the web or some list where

> it

> > is

> > > > mentioned that he is the latest experiencer of 'Babaji' --

and

> > > also

> > > > that he broke off from the Mainstream of Yoganandaji's

ashram,

> > > with

> > > > which also I have no direct contact or allegience -- so any

> > > sharing

> > > > and jolting or whatever else you judge appropriate would

have

> to

> > > be

> > > > done by you directly with them ;-)

> > > >

> > > > The shiva reference quoted from my message comes from the

> > > biography

> > > > series written by a shishya of Sai Baba in a series of books.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for sharing these anecdotes and stories that have

been

> > told

> > > to

> > > > you and kindly shared with us. All of these Babajis and Lord

> > Shiva

> > > > are so much higher and have possibly such a different frame

of

> > > > reference than most of us ordinary mortals (bhakts and non-

> > > bhaktas)

> > > > that to me it seems a waste of time analyzing their words

and

> > > > conjecturing what they meant. This is not to say that some

of

> > the

> > > > devotees such as the ones you described are not capable of

> doing

> > > so

> > > > in their personal framework of reality. But, there is no

value

> > in

> > > > that for most ordinary mortals who probably must experience

> and

> > > focus

> > > > more on the essential experience. I mean who really cares if

> > there

> > > > are two or two million expressions of Shiva Shakti in this

> > > Universe?

> > > > I mean we humans have enough difficulty counting humans in

> > census

> > > in

> > > > some countries with large populations, not to mention in

> > counting

> > > > wildlife accurately, so when it gets to magical

manifestations

> > and

> > > > divine appearances and suchlike, bean-counting just does not

> cut

> > > it,

> > > > not that it would stop just because I think so ;-)

> > > >

> > > > Peace,

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > , "Shad"

> > <waterpowers>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rohiniranjan,

> > > > > pranam.

> > > > >

> > > > > > How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-

shakti'

> > > > > >expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as

> > claimed

> > > by

> > > > > >Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> > > > > > Curious,

> > > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

> > > > >

> > > > > Shared by Victor...

> > > > > Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you

wish)

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe these two stories are "important" for the

record.

> > > > > Especially in light of the recent controversy that has

come

> > > across

> > > > > on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send

> these

> > > two

> > > > > stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18 siddha

> > kriya

> > > > yoga

> > > > > tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future

> Prema

> > > Sai

> > > > > Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56 and

> 73.

> > > On

> > > > > page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the

> actual

> > > date

> > > > > of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words,

he

> > > feels

> > > > > Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an

> > Avatar.

> > > > > Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's

DESTINY

> > for

> > > > > the new age that these different Babaji groups eventually

> > > recognize

> > > > > each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence

of

> > the

> > > > > other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride a

> > > bicycle

> > > > > at the same time?

> > > > > I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

> > > > >

> > > > > Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian sarod

> > > musician

> > > > > Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are

> long-

> > > time

> > > > > devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended

> > periods

> > > of

> > > > > time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she

and

> > her

> > > > > daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had each

> > bought

> > > a

> > > > > copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was

> > > available

> > > > > at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

> > > > > The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They had

> > both

> > > sat

> > > > > down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page

> through

> > > the

> > > > > book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came

walking

> > down

> > > > the

> > > > > pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the

> cover

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then to

> > > himself

> > > > a

> > > > > couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

> > > > >

> > > > > For the record I asked her what she took his

statement "the

> > > same,

> > > > the

> > > > > same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he

> meant

> > > they

> > > > > were at the same spiritual level or had a similar

spiritual

> > > > mission.

> > > > > The family has many objects which Sai Baba has

materialized

> > for

> > > > them

> > > > > over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva

lingams

> > that

> > > > > look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use

on

> > her

> > > > > alter for puja and aarati.

> > > > >

> > > > > - VF (New York)

> > > > >

> > > > > PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and

her

> > > > > daughter when they were visiting New York several years

ago.

> > One

> > > > > adult son is living in Manhattan.

> > > > >

> > > > > >From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

> > > > >

> > > > > More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji, Jesus,

> and

> > > Sai

> > > > > Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They

were

> > > > together

> > > > > on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back

> with

> > > > > stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai

Baba

> a

> > > > > letter. I thought that was unusal since they could

obviously

> > > > > communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be

playing

> > > games.

> > > > > And then I would go to North India to see Babaji,

> occasionally

> > > > > wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see

Sai

> > Baba

> > > > and

> > > > > finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in

> > > Haidakhan

> > > > > and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on earth -

> > > > > and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a Sai

> Baba

> > > > > devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his

> guru,

> > > Sai

> > > > > Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

> > > > > replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very

> immense

> > > > > mission." It was apparently said with tremendous respect.

I

> > was

> > > > > pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working

> > > together...just

> > > > > like the LRT trainers worked together, our different

> > > personalities

> > > > > resulting in different missions, different types of

> situations

> > > that

> > > > > attracted different types of students.

> > > > >

> > > > > Note: Besides being know for many healings and

> > materializations,

> > > > Sai

> > > > > Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees

have

> > > seen

> > > > > him both in visions and physically many times over the

years

> > in

> > > > > different countries.

> > > > > This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar,

> > had "projected"

> > > a

> > > > > second body in Haidakhan.

> > > > >

> > > > > *****************************

> > > > > Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 18, 2004

Isn't it curious that even God has to appear in this world in a

material form and only then gets noticed!

How confining and limiting that must feel to a Divine being!! But it

seems They have no other option, or so it seems :-)

RR

, "Shad" <waterpowers>

wrote:

>

> Dear Inder,

> pranam.

>

> >Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old cliche'.Nothing is in

> >danger.

>

> Please watch every day what you are doing as a society. While you

> sit by and watch your constitution being torn away from you, you

> willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured products no one needs

> and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of people suffering and

> dying all around you. Is this the "Universal Law" we to?

>

> Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one will

like

> us in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of

> lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep.

>

> I live in Croatia, former Yugoslavia. You may be aware that shortly

> ago a terrible war was going on. Before this war had started we

made

> many seminars on the teachings of Siddhanta and tried to bring the

> people the basics of teachings, like karma closer. When I said to

> the people that we live in a society of destructive group dynamics

> and such a society lives in danger many of them told me the same,

as

> you did above. `This is very old cliché. Nothing is in danger.'

They

> used to say that's all esoteric bla-bla. `We can kill and eat as

> many animals as we want, have any attitude as we like to, no matter

> if positive or negative. If there is a God and His laws, then He

> gave us the freedom to do what we want to. If He wouldn't like what

> we do, He would stop us – so everything must be ok. That merely is

a

> cliché to keep us people in fear, to make us stick to the religious

> rules and esoteric.'

>

> Although people don't believe we live in danger with such

> consciousness and destructive group dynamics in my homeland a

> terrible civil war broke out. The people became beasts, the worst

> and ugly crimes of war occurred here. Neighbors shot their former

> friends, only because one was Croat and the other Serb. Pregnant

> women were killed, and their babies taken out of the wombs… the

> people never believe they live in danger. When they see war, they

> think this happens to the others, it will never happen to us. In my

> country never ever anyone believed a civil war could occur. And

that

> neighbors would start killing and shooting each other houses.

> We may not believe, but once the law of karma goes for it, there

> will be no mercy.

>

> So when sadhus like Haidakhan Babaji warn the people they should

> change their consciousness, because they run in danger to kill each

> others in war, this is righteous – believe me. Mahatma Gandhi

> said `As long as there will be slaughterhouses, there will be

> battlefields'.

> Millions of animals are killed daily on the most horrible ways,

only

> to satisfy our needs of taste and pleasure, not because we need

this

> meat to survive. Not regarding the terrible animal testing, so our

> wives can buy beautiful cosmetic products, or for us any kind of

> medical remedies can be invented.

>

> Do you really this killing and slaughtering and torturing will

leave

> us people without reaction or result? We will not get the bill for

> all this – because we merely believe this is only a cliché. I

> wouldn't be so sure about it…

>

> >BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants kingdom and

> >envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

>

> No animal on this planet has such a destructive way of

> living or attitude towards nature and its fellows, as

> we do.

> Either we kill each other with these terrible weapons,

> just a question of time when the mass-destruction

> weapons will come to use, or we will kill ourselves

> due to the excessive destructive energy forms, which

> melt our poles and heat up the planet in a suicidal

> speed.

>

> If we had a spark of conscience in or heads, we would

> undertake something against this for our children's

> and grandchildren's sake. But our heritage to them is

> nuclear waste and a by greed and stupidity destroyed

> planet.

>

> Our surroundings only are a mirror of our

> consciousness!

>

> The rubbish we carry inside comes out and creates our

> Environment

>

> >Why worry about humanity?

>

> Because animals and plants do not owe intelligence and

> discrimination, as we human do. God trusted us something, to take

> care of these animals and plants, but we ignorant sheep and fools

> destroy everything.

>

> We shouldn't be surprised if one day Lord Siva will perform His

> beautiful dance to put an end to this creation or madness.

>

> We MUST worry about us, humanity. Because we have the consciousness

> with which something can be changed. Not the animals or nature

> destroys us, but vice versa.

> And WE will have to take consequence for this, karma. And this

might

> end terribly, in horrible wars. We will be slaughtered in the same

> way, we do it with the animals in the slaughterhouses.

>

> Tell me one single reason why God should spare us, when we have no

> mercy for fellow being, like the animals and human around us?!

>

> >Universal law is God.

>

> What do you mean with this?

>

> In new age philosophy this term often is used, but everybody has a

> different understanding of this, and mostly it is simply

> sentimental. For me the universal law is what is taught us in the

> teachings of sanatana dharma.

>

> >I, you and he and everybody is God.

> >Some may be ordanary and some may be highly charismatic.

>

> Really?

> Bhavat Geeta teaches different – Krishna says to Arjuna that we are

> jiva-tattva, and God is Vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva.

> Jiva tattva may be in illusion and can be entangled in the wheel of

> birth and death. Vishnu- and siva-tattva, which means God, never

> falls in illusion and will never entangle in the wheel of birth and

> death, and karma.

>

> To put us jives on the same level like God really isn't wise. Which

> means as you say above one may be more charismatic God, another one

> is an ordinary God – does this mean we are on the same level like

> Narayana and Siva??

>

> That is a great illusion, if you ask me. The soul is spiritual and

> eternal, such as God is, but this absolutely doesn't mean that you

> and I and other are God.

>

> Here is the problem, that we all behave like Gods, because we have

> FORGOTTEN about God.

>

> How can we worship God and respect Him, when we think WE ARE God?!

>

> >Astrological laws are also applicable to every body.Everything is

as

> >per divine law.

>

> I am no expert in astrology. Only know that when someone achieves

> the transcendental level, which is beyond karma and guna, the same

> will no more have influence on that person. God Himself will take

> care of that person.

>

> Haidakhan Baba did not take birth, He simply appeared. So I don't

> know how birthday and -time can be defined here…

> But to say His teachings only are a cliché in my eyes looks

arrogant

> and absurd. Nothing personal against you, but I think we must

change

> such attitude and change something.

> Because once in the death-bed things will be too late.

>

> Kind regards,

> Shad

>

> , "Inder"

> <indervohra2001> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shad,

> > I beg to disagree with you.

> > Universal law is God.

> > Nobody is beyond universal law. I, you and he and everybody is

God.

> > Some may be ordanary and some may be highly charismatic.

> > Astrological laws are also applicable to every body.Everything is

> as

> > per divine law.

> > In this expanding universe everything material ,soul, energy etc

> are

> > recycled as per divine law.

> >

> > Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old cliche'.Nothing is in

> > danger.

> >

> > BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants kingdom and

> > envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

> >

> > Inder

> >

> > In , "Shad" <waterpowers>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Inder,

> > > pranam!

> > >

> > > > Dear Shad,

> > > > Do we have horoscopic details of Babajis?

> > > > Inder

> > >

> > > No, because he wasn't born, but appeared as a twenty year old

> men.

> > > As I know he doesn't take birth, but simply 'shows up',

> > materializes

> > > His body, but doesn't take birth.

> > > His last incarnation was short, he didn't stay very long.

> > >

> > > He could materialize His body. There is proof that for example

> He

> > > was at kumba meela and simultaneously at a 1000km distance

> place.

> > > People have seen Him at both places at the same time!

> > >

> > > No karma to study here, sorry

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Shad

> > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shad,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have not read Mr. Govindan's book (his name was referred

> to

> > by

> > > > me

> > > > > based on what I read about him on the web or some list

where

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > mentioned that he is the latest experiencer of 'Babaji' --

> and

> > > > also

> > > > > that he broke off from the Mainstream of Yoganandaji's

> ashram,

> > > > with

> > > > > which also I have no direct contact or allegience -- so any

> > > > sharing

> > > > > and jolting or whatever else you judge appropriate would

> have

> > to

> > > > be

> > > > > done by you directly with them ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > The shiva reference quoted from my message comes from the

> > > > biography

> > > > > series written by a shishya of Sai Baba in a series of

books.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for sharing these anecdotes and stories that have

> been

> > > told

> > > > to

> > > > > you and kindly shared with us. All of these Babajis and

Lord

> > > Shiva

> > > > > are so much higher and have possibly such a different frame

> of

> > > > > reference than most of us ordinary mortals (bhakts and non-

> > > > bhaktas)

> > > > > that to me it seems a waste of time analyzing their words

> and

> > > > > conjecturing what they meant. This is not to say that some

> of

> > > the

> > > > > devotees such as the ones you described are not capable of

> > doing

> > > > so

> > > > > in their personal framework of reality. But, there is no

> value

> > > in

> > > > > that for most ordinary mortals who probably must experience

> > and

> > > > focus

> > > > > more on the essential experience. I mean who really cares

if

> > > there

> > > > > are two or two million expressions of Shiva Shakti in this

> > > > Universe?

> > > > > I mean we humans have enough difficulty counting humans in

> > > census

> > > > in

> > > > > some countries with large populations, not to mention in

> > > counting

> > > > > wildlife accurately, so when it gets to magical

> manifestations

> > > and

> > > > > divine appearances and suchlike, bean-counting just does

not

> > cut

> > > > it,

> > > > > not that it would stop just because I think so ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > Peace,

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Shad"

> > > <waterpowers>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Rohiniranjan,

> > > > > > pranam.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-

> shakti'

> > > > > > >expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as

> > > claimed

> > > > by

> > > > > > >Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> > > > > > > Curious,

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shared by Victor...

> > > > > > Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you

> wish)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I believe these two stories are "important" for the

> record.

> > > > > > Especially in light of the recent controversy that has

> come

> > > > across

> > > > > > on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send

> > these

> > > > two

> > > > > > stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18 siddha

> > > kriya

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future

> > Prema

> > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56

and

> > 73.

> > > > On

> > > > > > page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the

> > actual

> > > > date

> > > > > > of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words,

> he

> > > > feels

> > > > > > Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an

> > > Avatar.

> > > > > > Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's

> DESTINY

> > > for

> > > > > > the new age that these different Babaji groups eventually

> > > > recognize

> > > > > > each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride

a

> > > > bicycle

> > > > > > at the same time?

> > > > > > I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian

sarod

> > > > musician

> > > > > > Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are

> > long-

> > > > time

> > > > > > devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended

> > > periods

> > > > of

> > > > > > time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she

> and

> > > her

> > > > > > daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had each

> > > bought

> > > > a

> > > > > > copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was

> > > > available

> > > > > > at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

> > > > > > The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They

had

> > > both

> > > > sat

> > > > > > down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page

> > through

> > > > the

> > > > > > book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came

> walking

> > > down

> > > > > the

> > > > > > pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the

> > cover

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then

to

> > > > himself

> > > > > a

> > > > > > couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For the record I asked her what she took his

> statement "the

> > > > same,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he

> > meant

> > > > they

> > > > > > were at the same spiritual level or had a similar

> spiritual

> > > > > mission.

> > > > > > The family has many objects which Sai Baba has

> materialized

> > > for

> > > > > them

> > > > > > over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva

> lingams

> > > that

> > > > > > look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use

> on

> > > her

> > > > > > alter for puja and aarati.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - VF (New York)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and

> her

> > > > > > daughter when they were visiting New York several years

> ago.

> > > One

> > > > > > adult son is living in Manhattan.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji,

Jesus,

> > and

> > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They

> were

> > > > > together

> > > > > > on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back

> > with

> > > > > > stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai

> Baba

> > a

> > > > > > letter. I thought that was unusal since they could

> obviously

> > > > > > communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be

> playing

> > > > games.

> > > > > > And then I would go to North India to see Babaji,

> > occasionally

> > > > > > wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see

> Sai

> > > Baba

> > > > > and

> > > > > > finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in

> > > > Haidakhan

> > > > > > and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on earth -

> > > > > > and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a Sai

> > Baba

> > > > > > devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his

> > guru,

> > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

> > > > > > replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very

> > immense

> > > > > > mission." It was apparently said with tremendous respect.

> I

> > > was

> > > > > > pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working

> > > > together...just

> > > > > > like the LRT trainers worked together, our different

> > > > personalities

> > > > > > resulting in different missions, different types of

> > situations

> > > > that

> > > > > > attracted different types of students.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Note: Besides being know for many healings and

> > > materializations,

> > > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees

> have

> > > > seen

> > > > > > him both in visions and physically many times over the

> years

> > > in

> > > > > > different countries.

> > > > > > This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar,

> > > had "projected"

> > > > a

> > > > > > second body in Haidakhan.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *****************************

> > > > > > Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 19, 2004

Dear Shad,

Let me elaborate a bit.

Violence [Mars] has always been part of humans [homo sipeans] since

time immorials. Only forms of violence changes as we progress throgh

Time.

Physical violence man killing man is in fact reduced substancially

in last 50- 100 years. Previously say 100years ago there used to be

much violence--villages fighting with other village, small kings

fighting violently with other kings. Dacoits, thiefs killings was

rampant.The so called law and order and justice and peace[Jupiter ,

Venus] has clamped their hold very recently say in last 50-100 years

only.

With the results that in last 100 years human population has

increased from one billion to 6-7 billions. Older population is

increasing. Other flora and fauna are being killed [violence] by

human for his genuine needs. Fifty percent of specis of flora and

fauna has been destroyed by peaceful man.

So humanity is not in danger rather humanity is danger to

environment.

About God, I have one question, why did He create us. We were

perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

Why should God need prayers or our compliances, when He Himself can

modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

Please forgive me for these words. I am not writing this in

arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

If some miraclulous powers exist, these should correct the human

mind with their power rather than asking for obedience or compliance.

Inder

h_Remedies, "Shad" <waterpowers> wrote:

>

> Dear Inder,

> pranam.

>

> >Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old cliche'.Nothing is in

> >danger.

>

> Please watch every day what you are doing as a society. While you

> sit by and watch your constitution being torn away from you, you

> willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured products no one

needs

> and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of people suffering

and

> dying all around you. Is this the "Universal Law" we to?

>

> Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one will

like

> us in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of

> lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep.

>

> I live in Croatia, former Yugoslavia. You may be aware that

shortly

> ago a terrible war was going on. Before this war had started we

made

> many seminars on the teachings of Siddhanta and tried to bring the

> people the basics of teachings, like karma closer. When I said to

> the people that we live in a society of destructive group dynamics

> and such a society lives in danger many of them told me the same,

as

> you did above. `This is very old cliché. Nothing is in danger.'

They

> used to say that's all esoteric bla-bla. `We can kill and eat as

> many animals as we want, have any attitude as we like to, no

matter

> if positive or negative. If there is a God and His laws, then He

> gave us the freedom to do what we want to. If He wouldn't like

what

> we do, He would stop us – so everything must be ok. That merely is

a

> cliché to keep us people in fear, to make us stick to the

religious

> rules and esoteric.'

>

> Although people don't believe we live in danger with such

> consciousness and destructive group dynamics in my homeland a

> terrible civil war broke out. The people became beasts, the worst

> and ugly crimes of war occurred here. Neighbors shot their former

> friends, only because one was Croat and the other Serb. Pregnant

> women were killed, and their babies taken out of the wombs… the

> people never believe they live in danger. When they see war, they

> think this happens to the others, it will never happen to us. In

my

> country never ever anyone believed a civil war could occur. And

that

> neighbors would start killing and shooting each other houses.

> We may not believe, but once the law of karma goes for it, there

> will be no mercy.

>

> So when sadhus like Haidakhan Babaji warn the people they should

> change their consciousness, because they run in danger to kill

each

> others in war, this is righteous – believe me. Mahatma Gandhi

> said `As long as there will be slaughterhouses, there will be

> battlefields'.

> Millions of animals are killed daily on the most horrible ways,

only

> to satisfy our needs of taste and pleasure, not because we need

this

> meat to survive. Not regarding the terrible animal testing, so our

> wives can buy beautiful cosmetic products, or for us any kind of

> medical remedies can be invented.

>

> Do you really this killing and slaughtering and torturing will

leave

> us people without reaction or result? We will not get the bill for

> all this – because we merely believe this is only a cliché. I

> wouldn't be so sure about it…

>

> >BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants kingdom and

> >envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

>

> No animal on this planet has such a destructive way of

> living or attitude towards nature and its fellows, as

> we do.

> Either we kill each other with these terrible weapons,

> just a question of time when the mass-destruction

> weapons will come to use, or we will kill ourselves

> due to the excessive destructive energy forms, which

> melt our poles and heat up the planet in a suicidal

> speed.

>

> If we had a spark of conscience in or heads, we would

> undertake something against this for our children's

> and grandchildren's sake. But our heritage to them is

> nuclear waste and a by greed and stupidity destroyed

> planet.

>

> Our surroundings only are a mirror of our

> consciousness!

>

> The rubbish we carry inside comes out and creates our

> Environment

>

> >Why worry about humanity?

>

> Because animals and plants do not owe intelligence and

> discrimination, as we human do. God trusted us something, to take

> care of these animals and plants, but we ignorant sheep and fools

> destroy everything.

>

> We shouldn't be surprised if one day Lord Siva will perform His

> beautiful dance to put an end to this creation or madness.

>

> We MUST worry about us, humanity. Because we have the

consciousness

> with which something can be changed. Not the animals or nature

> destroys us, but vice versa.

> And WE will have to take consequence for this, karma. And this

might

> end terribly, in horrible wars. We will be slaughtered in the same

> way, we do it with the animals in the slaughterhouses.

>

> Tell me one single reason why God should spare us, when we have no

> mercy for fellow being, like the animals and human around us?!

>

> >Universal law is God.

>

> What do you mean with this?

>

> In new age philosophy this term often is used, but everybody has a

> different understanding of this, and mostly it is simply

> sentimental. For me the universal law is what is taught us in the

> teachings of sanatana dharma.

>

> >I, you and he and everybody is God.

> >Some may be ordanary and some may be highly charismatic.

>

> Really?

> Bhavat Geeta teaches different – Krishna says to Arjuna that we

are

> jiva-tattva, and God is Vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva.

> Jiva tattva may be in illusion and can be entangled in the wheel

of

> birth and death. Vishnu- and siva-tattva, which means God, never

> falls in illusion and will never entangle in the wheel of birth

and

> death, and karma.

>

> To put us jives on the same level like God really isn't wise.

Which

> means as you say above one may be more charismatic God, another

one

> is an ordinary God – does this mean we are on the same level like

> Narayana and Siva??

>

> That is a great illusion, if you ask me. The soul is spiritual and

> eternal, such as God is, but this absolutely doesn't mean that you

> and I and other are God.

>

> Here is the problem, that we all behave like Gods, because we have

> FORGOTTEN about God.

>

> How can we worship God and respect Him, when we think WE ARE God?!

>

> >Astrological laws are also applicable to every body.Everything is

as

> >per divine law.

>

> I am no expert in astrology. Only know that when someone achieves

> the transcendental level, which is beyond karma and guna, the same

> will no more have influence on that person. God Himself will take

> care of that person.

>

> Haidakhan Baba did not take birth, He simply appeared. So I don't

> know how birthday and -time can be defined here…

> But to say His teachings only are a cliché in my eyes looks

arrogant

> and absurd. Nothing personal against you, but I think we must

change

> such attitude and change something.

> Because once in the death-bed things will be too late.

>

> Kind regards,

> Shad

>

> , "Inder"

> <indervohra2001> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shad,

> > I beg to disagree with you.

> > Universal law is God.

> > Nobody is beyond universal law. I, you and he and everybody is

God.

> > Some may be ordanary and some may be highly charismatic.

> > Astrological laws are also applicable to every body.Everything

is

> as

> > per divine law.

> > In this expanding universe everything material ,soul, energy etc

> are

> > recycled as per divine law.

> >

> > Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old cliche'.Nothing is in

> > danger.

> >

> > BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants kingdom and

> > envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

> >

> > Inder

> >

> > In , "Shad" <waterpowers>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Inder,

> > > pranam!

> > >

> > > > Dear Shad,

> > > > Do we have horoscopic details of Babajis?

> > > > Inder

> > >

> > > No, because he wasn't born, but appeared as a twenty year old

> men.

> > > As I know he doesn't take birth, but simply 'shows up',

> > materializes

> > > His body, but doesn't take birth.

> > > His last incarnation was short, he didn't stay very long.

> > >

> > > He could materialize His body. There is proof that for example

> He

> > > was at kumba meela and simultaneously at a 1000km distance

> place.

> > > People have seen Him at both places at the same time!

> > >

> > > No karma to study here, sorry

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Shad

> > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shad,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have not read Mr. Govindan's book (his name was referred

> to

> > by

> > > > me

> > > > > based on what I read about him on the web or some list

where

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > mentioned that he is the latest experiencer of 'Babaji' --

> and

> > > > also

> > > > > that he broke off from the Mainstream of Yoganandaji's

> ashram,

> > > > with

> > > > > which also I have no direct contact or allegience -- so

any

> > > > sharing

> > > > > and jolting or whatever else you judge appropriate would

> have

> > to

> > > > be

> > > > > done by you directly with them ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > The shiva reference quoted from my message comes from the

> > > > biography

> > > > > series written by a shishya of Sai Baba in a series of

books.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for sharing these anecdotes and stories that have

> been

> > > told

> > > > to

> > > > > you and kindly shared with us. All of these Babajis and

Lord

> > > Shiva

> > > > > are so much higher and have possibly such a different

frame

> of

> > > > > reference than most of us ordinary mortals (bhakts and non-

> > > > bhaktas)

> > > > > that to me it seems a waste of time analyzing their words

> and

> > > > > conjecturing what they meant. This is not to say that some

> of

> > > the

> > > > > devotees such as the ones you described are not capable of

> > doing

> > > > so

> > > > > in their personal framework of reality. But, there is no

> value

> > > in

> > > > > that for most ordinary mortals who probably must

experience

> > and

> > > > focus

> > > > > more on the essential experience. I mean who really cares

if

> > > there

> > > > > are two or two million expressions of Shiva Shakti in this

> > > > Universe?

> > > > > I mean we humans have enough difficulty counting humans in

> > > census

> > > > in

> > > > > some countries with large populations, not to mention in

> > > counting

> > > > > wildlife accurately, so when it gets to magical

> manifestations

> > > and

> > > > > divine appearances and suchlike, bean-counting just does

not

> > cut

> > > > it,

> > > > > not that it would stop just because I think so ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > Peace,

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Shad"

> > > <waterpowers>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Rohiniranjan,

> > > > > > pranam.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > How does this tie in or dove-tail with the 'shiva-

> shakti'

> > > > > > >expression of Lord Shiva through the three saibabas as

> > > claimed

> > > > by

> > > > > > >Sathya Sai baba? Shirdi, Satya and Prema??

> > > > > > > Curious,

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Babaji & Sathya Sai Baba Connections

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shared by Victor...

> > > > > > Om Namah Shivay...(send out any or all of this if you

> wish)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I believe these two stories are "important" for the

> record.

> > > > > > Especially in light of the recent controversy that has

> come

> > > > across

> > > > > > on the website. If you feel it, I think you should send

> > these

> > > > two

> > > > > > stories to Govindan in Canada. In his book "The 18

siddha

> > > kriya

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > tradition" Govindan mentions Shirdi, Sai and the future

> > Prema

> > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba as avatars of Shiva. He mentions them on pages 56

and

> > 73.

> > > > On

> > > > > > page 56 he refers to the fact that Sai Baba ,gives the

> > actual

> > > > date

> > > > > > of Krishna's birth as July 20, 3,228 BC. In other words,

> he

> > > > feels

> > > > > > Sai Baba is an authoritative source of information as an

> > > Avatar.

> > > > > > Maybe these two stories will give him a "jolt". It's

> DESTINY

> > > for

> > > > > > the new age that these different Babaji groups

eventually

> > > > recognize

> > > > > > each other and cease to be "threatened" by the existence

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > other. Can Babaji rub his stomach, pat his head and ride

a

> > > > bicycle

> > > > > > at the same time?

> > > > > > I think so. Every devotee should realize this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Two stories about Babaji and Sathya Sai Baba:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kokila Rai is the wife of the late well known Indian

sarod

> > > > musician

> > > > > > Vasant Rai (see Vasantrai.com). Her and her children are

> > long-

> > > > time

> > > > > > devotees of Sathya Sai Baba and have spent many extended

> > > periods

> > > > of

> > > > > > time living at his ashram over the years. Once while she

> and

> > > her

> > > > > > daughter were at Prashanti Nilayam in India they had

each

> > > bought

> > > > a

> > > > > > copy of the book "I AM HARMONY' by Radha Shyam which was

> > > > available

> > > > > > at Sathya Sai Baba's ashram bookstore.

> > > > > > The book was about the "new" Babaji at Haidakhan. They

had

> > > both

> > > > sat

> > > > > > down next to one of the walkways at the ashram to page

> > through

> > > > the

> > > > > > book. While they were doing so Sathya Sai Baba came

> walking

> > > down

> > > > > the

> > > > > > pathway and stopped in front of them. He pointed to the

> > cover

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > book (which is a painting of Haidakhan Babaji) and then

to

> > > > himself

> > > > > a

> > > > > > couple of times and said to them "the same, the same".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For the record I asked her what she took his

> statement "the

> > > > same,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > same" to mean. She answered that she took it to mean he

> > meant

> > > > they

> > > > > > were at the same spiritual level or had a similar

> spiritual

> > > > > mission.

> > > > > > The family has many objects which Sai Baba has

> materialized

> > > for

> > > > > them

> > > > > > over the years including two small egg-shaped Shiva

> lingams

> > > that

> > > > > > look and feel like marble which he instructed her to use

> on

> > > her

> > > > > > alter for puja and aarati.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - VF (New York)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PS: This story was told to me directly by Kokila Rai and

> her

> > > > > > daughter when they were visiting New York several years

> ago.

> > > One

> > > > > > adult son is living in Manhattan.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >From "INTERLUDES WITH THE GODS" by Sondra Ray pps 31-32.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > More and more I found myself thinking about Babaji,

Jesus,

> > and

> > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba together - and this was how my altar looked. They

> were

> > > > > together

> > > > > > on my travelling altar. Sometimes people would come back

> > with

> > > > > > stories from Haidakhan saying that Babaji had sent Sai

> Baba

> > a

> > > > > > letter. I thought that was unusal since they could

> obviously

> > > > > > communicate telepathically. But I knew they must be

> playing

> > > > games.

> > > > > > And then I would go to North India to see Babaji,

> > occasionally

> > > > > > wondering if I should drop down to south India - to see

> Sai

> > > Baba

> > > > > and

> > > > > > finally meet him. But I would get so totally immersed in

> > > > Haidakhan

> > > > > > and Babaji, that I would forget everything else on

earth -

> > > > > > and suddenly there would be no more time. One year, a

Sai

> > Baba

> > > > > > devotee came back to the States saying he had asked his

> > guru,

> > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba, if he were really Babaji. Sai Baba had apparently

> > > > > > replied, "No, I am not Babaji...but Babaji has a very

> > immense

> > > > > > mission." It was apparently said with tremendous

respect.

> I

> > > was

> > > > > > pleased, imagining how they must somehow be working

> > > > together...just

> > > > > > like the LRT trainers worked together, our different

> > > > personalities

> > > > > > resulting in different missions, different types of

> > situations

> > > > that

> > > > > > attracted different types of students.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Note: Besides being know for many healings and

> > > materializations,

> > > > > Sai

> > > > > > Baba is also know for his ability to bilocate. Devotees

> have

> > > > seen

> > > > > > him both in visions and physically many times over the

> years

> > > in

> > > > > > different countries.

> > > > > > This devotee was wondering if he, as an avatar,

> > > had "projected"

> > > > a

> > > > > > second body in Haidakhan.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *****************************

> > > > > > Truth**Simplicity**Love

November 19, 2004

Inder,

I have often wondered why god had created us .. I have

an interesting site I would like to refer to u ..

thefreedomofchoice.com/ ,, there is a book written by

Tom Chalko called "freedom of choice" free to download

...

It should be an interesting read .. i am sure

specially for you !

Surya.

--- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote:

>

> Dear Shad,

> Let me elaborate a bit.

> Violence [Mars] has always been part of humans [homo

> sipeans] since

> time immorials. Only forms of violence changes as we

> progress throgh

> Time.

> Physical violence man killing man is in fact reduced

> substancially

> in last 50- 100 years. Previously say 100years ago

> there used to be

> much violence--villages fighting with other village,

> small kings

> fighting violently with other kings. Dacoits, thiefs

> killings was

> rampant.The so called law and order and justice and

> peace[Jupiter ,

> Venus] has clamped their hold very recently say in

> last 50-100 years

> only.

> With the results that in last 100 years human

> population has

> increased from one billion to 6-7 billions. Older

> population is

> increasing. Other flora and fauna are being killed

> [violence] by

> human for his genuine needs. Fifty percent of specis

> of flora and

> fauna has been destroyed by peaceful man.

> So humanity is not in danger rather humanity is

> danger to

> environment.

> About God, I have one question, why did He create

> us. We were

> perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

> Why should God need prayers or our compliances, when

> He Himself can

> modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

> Please forgive me for these words. I am not writing

> this in

> arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

> If some miraclulous powers exist, these should

> correct the human

> mind with their power rather than asking for

> obedience or compliance.

> Inder

>

> h_Remedies, "Shad"

> <waterpowers> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Inder,

> > pranam.

> >

> > >Humanity is in danger!!! This is very old

> cliche'.Nothing is in

> > >danger.

> >

> > Please watch every day what you are doing as a

> society. While you

> > sit by and watch your constitution being torn away

> from you, you

> > willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured

> products no one

> needs

> > and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of

> people suffering

> and

> > dying all around you. Is this the "Universal Law"

> we to?

> >

> > Perhaps I should let you all in on a little

> secret. No one will

> like

> > us in the future. This time period is looked at as

> being full of

> > lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep.

> >

> > I live in Croatia, former Yugoslavia. You may be

> aware that

> shortly

> > ago a terrible war was going on. Before this war

> had started we

> made

> > many seminars on the teachings of Siddhanta and

> tried to bring the

> > people the basics of teachings, like karma closer.

> When I said to

> > the people that we live in a society of

> destructive group dynamics

> > and such a society lives in danger many of them

> told me the same,

> as

> > you did above. `This is very old cliché. Nothing

> is in danger.'

> They

> > used to say that's all esoteric bla-bla. `We can

> kill and eat as

> > many animals as we want, have any attitude as we

> like to, no

> matter

> > if positive or negative. If there is a God and His

> laws, then He

> > gave us the freedom to do what we want to. If He

> wouldn't like

> what

> > we do, He would stop us – so everything must be

> ok. That merely is

> a

> > cliché to keep us people in fear, to make us stick

> to the

> religious

> > rules and esoteric.'

> >

> > Although people don't believe we live in danger

> with such

> > consciousness and destructive group dynamics in my

> homeland a

> > terrible civil war broke out. The people became

> beasts, the worst

> > and ugly crimes of war occurred here. Neighbors

> shot their former

> > friends, only because one was Croat and the other

> Serb. Pregnant

> > women were killed, and their babies taken out of

> the wombs… the

> > people never believe they live in danger. When

> they see war, they

> > think this happens to the others, it will never

> happen to us. In

> my

> > country never ever anyone believed a civil war

> could occur. And

> that

> > neighbors would start killing and shooting each

> other houses.

> > We may not believe, but once the law of karma goes

> for it, there

> > will be no mercy.

> >

> > So when sadhus like Haidakhan Babaji warn the

> people they should

> > change their consciousness, because they run in

> danger to kill

> each

> > others in war, this is righteous – believe me.

> Mahatma Gandhi

> > said `As long as there will be slaughterhouses,

> there will be

> > battlefields'.

> > Millions of animals are killed daily on the most

> horrible ways,

> only

> > to satisfy our needs of taste and pleasure, not

> because we need

> this

> > meat to survive. Not regarding the terrible animal

> testing, so our

> > wives can buy beautiful cosmetic products, or for

> us any kind of

> > medical remedies can be invented.

> >

> > Do you really this killing and slaughtering and

> torturing will

> leave

> > us people without reaction or result? We will not

> get the bill for

> > all this – because we merely believe this is only

> a cliché. I

> > wouldn't be so sure about it…

> >

> > >BTW, humanity itself is danger to animal, plants

> kingdom and

> > >envirnment. Why worry about humanity.

> >

> > No animal on this planet has such a destructive

> way of

> > living or attitude towards nature and its fellows,

> as

> > we do.

> > Either we kill each other with these terrible

> weapons,

> > just a question of time when the mass-destruction

> > weapons will come to use, or we will kill

> ourselves

> > due to the excessive destructive energy forms,

> which

> > melt our poles and heat up the planet in a

> suicidal

> > speed.

> >

> > If we had a spark of conscience in or heads, we

> would

> > undertake something against this for our

> children's

> > and grandchildren's sake. But our heritage to them

> is

> > nuclear waste and a by greed and stupidity

> destroyed

>

=== message truncated ===

Meet the all-new My - Try it today!

November 19, 2004

Shad have u ever read Brahma sutra bhasyas? one in

particular by Ramanuja and shankaracharya (saririka

bhasya) are wonderful to read ...

Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

has a book read it once!

--- Shad <waterpowers wrote:

>

> Dear Inder ji,

> pranam!

>

> Thank you for your reply!

>

> >About God, I have one question, why did He create

> us. We were

> >perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

>

> In Bhagavat Geeta it is written that there are two

> kinds of jivas,

> the eternally liberated, who live in the spiritual

> world, who are

> perfect and never took birth in the material world.

> And there is the second kind of jivas that are

> conditioned as we are

> who take birth, by being exhaled by Lord Vishnu.

> After destruction

> of the material abode, those jivas will be inhaled

> by Lord Vishnu

> again, and fall into an unconscious sleep, until

> time will come

> again for creation and existence in the material

> world.

>

> But those conditioned jivas that achieve

> transcendence will come to

> the spiritual abode, and never again fall back into

> material

> existence.

>

> Why God has created two kinds of jivas, those who

> live in the

> spiritual world, and us who stay `down here', need

> to be liberated

> to come to the spiritual world – we must ask God

> Himself maybe. I

> often asked sadhus this same question, and they said

> that maybe God

> simply fulfilled our desires to enjoy independently

> without Him.

> He created this material world and bodies, so we

> could forget Him,

> and be our own God… sure He also created rules like

> karma. I also

> received the answer that each of us once was Brahma,

> creator. But I

> was also told that many things we will only be able

> to understand

> when we achieve the transcendental level. Because

> this is another

> dimension, we are not able to understand from his

> material level.

>

> >Why should God need prayers or our compliances,

> when He Himself can

> >modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

>

> God does not need prayers and compliances! It is His

> mercy He gave

> us this process so we can wash clean from our karma,

> develop our

> consciousness to a transcendental level, achieve

> self-realization so

> we can worship Him, and recognize our soul, the real

> self. It is a

> purification process for us, which enables us to

> return home to God,

> so we can develop again bhakti for Him.

>

> He does not need anything, He is Bhagavan. Bhagavan

> is one who owes

> everything. This is for our good, not for His

> profit.

>

> >please forgive me for these words. I am not writing

> this in

> >arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

>

> I apologize if my reply sounded like that! I never

> blame a person,

> but the thinking in common. And I do not represent

> my own thinking,

> or opinion, but merely the teachings of Siddhanta,

> which I have

> tried to study carefully during the last two

> decades.

>

> My personal opinion is not important, but it is

> important what the

> teachings give us for our benefit.

>

> >If some miraclulous powers exist, these should

> correct the human

> >mind with their power rather than asking for

> obedience or

> compliance.

> >Inder

>

> Obedience or compliance for us might look negative,

> as we

> are `stuck' in a bodily conception. We think we are

> American,

> European, Hindi, Muslim, Christian, male, female,

> scholared, priest,

> brahmin, boss, etc…

> We identify with things we ARE NOT. This is why we

> suffer and are

> unhappy – nothing can make us happy. The soul is

> spiritual. And only

> spiritual and transcendental things can satisfy us.

> The true happiness comes from the heart and soul,

> but we think we

> can buy this happiness with money, a great car, good

> job, power,

> beautiful wife and children, affiliation to some

> religion, nation,

> political party, caste, etc.

>

> God created the law of karma because He gave us

> freedom; He is no

> tyrant or dictator who rules us and corrects us. The

> law of karma is

> equal for all. He doesn't make a difference. This

> law is what

> corrects us, not He Himself. The law of karma is

> hard, and entangles

> us more and more into this material existence – the

> cycle of rebirth

> and death.

>

> This is why our Lord out of His mercy created the

> process which

> teaches us how to liberate. This process is simple:

> purification

> through worship, remember of God, by developing

> through this good

> qualities, which later will be even transcended.

>

> By chanting His name we wash our mind and elevate

> our consciousness,

> through having company with God, as His name, by

> remembering Him and

> meditating on Him.

> We must elevate our consciousness. We people from

> this Earth

> degraded in the last centuries, more and more. We

> did not improve

> things become worse and worse. We become more and

> more

> materialistic, atheistic and unscrupulous. Things

> which for our

> Grandparents were even impossible or too absurd to

> think about

> became normal for us. As for example abortion, mass

> slaughterhouses,

> mass-destruction weapons, which in a couple of

> seconds will

> exterminate life on Earth in between a couple of

> seconds, I could

> write a book on this, but am sure you understand

> what I am trying to

> say.

>

> Siva is the father of all living beings, and it is

> Hindi-culture to

> serve and love the father.

> Then, how can this actually be called obedience or

> compliance?

>

> Let's chant the holy names and drink the nectar of

> the holy names!

> Because this is what brings true happiness. For us

> and for God!

>

> All the best,

> Shad

>

> Om namah sivaya!

> Harekrishna!

>

November 19, 2004

Hi Surya,

pranam.

> Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> has a book read it once!

Please send the URL of the site, I would like to have a look too.

Best regards,

Shad

, surya vishnubhotla

<surya_prakashv> wrote:

> Shad have u ever read Brahma sutra bhasyas? one in

> particular by Ramanuja and shankaracharya (saririka

> bhasya) are wonderful to read ...

>

> Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> has a book read it once!

>

> --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear Inder ji,

> > pranam!

> >

> > Thank you for your reply!

> >

> > >About God, I have one question, why did He create

> > us. We were

> > >perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

> >

> > In Bhagavat Geeta it is written that there are two

> > kinds of jivas,

> > the eternally liberated, who live in the spiritual

> > world, who are

> > perfect and never took birth in the material world.

> > And there is the second kind of jivas that are

> > conditioned as we are

> > who take birth, by being exhaled by Lord Vishnu.

> > After destruction

> > of the material abode, those jivas will be inhaled

> > by Lord Vishnu

> > again, and fall into an unconscious sleep, until

> > time will come

> > again for creation and existence in the material

> > world.

> >

> > But those conditioned jivas that achieve

> > transcendence will come to

> > the spiritual abode, and never again fall back into

> > material

> > existence.

> >

> > Why God has created two kinds of jivas, those who

> > live in the

> > spiritual world, and us who stay `down here', need

> > to be liberated

> > to come to the spiritual world – we must ask God

> > Himself maybe. I

> > often asked sadhus this same question, and they said

> > that maybe God

> > simply fulfilled our desires to enjoy independently

> > without Him.

> > He created this material world and bodies, so we

> > could forget Him,

> > and be our own God… sure He also created rules like

> > karma. I also

> > received the answer that each of us once was Brahma,

> > creator. But I

> > was also told that many things we will only be able

> > to understand

> > when we achieve the transcendental level. Because

> > this is another

> > dimension, we are not able to understand from his

> > material level.

> >

> > >Why should God need prayers or our compliances,

> > when He Himself can

> > >modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

> >

> > God does not need prayers and compliances! It is His

> > mercy He gave

> > us this process so we can wash clean from our karma,

> > develop our

> > consciousness to a transcendental level, achieve

> > self-realization so

> > we can worship Him, and recognize our soul, the real

> > self. It is a

> > purification process for us, which enables us to

> > return home to God,

> > so we can develop again bhakti for Him.

> >

> > He does not need anything, He is Bhagavan. Bhagavan

> > is one who owes

> > everything. This is for our good, not for His

> > profit.

> >

> > >please forgive me for these words. I am not writing

> > this in

> > >arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

> >

> > I apologize if my reply sounded like that! I never

> > blame a person,

> > but the thinking in common. And I do not represent

> > my own thinking,

> > or opinion, but merely the teachings of Siddhanta,

> > which I have

> > tried to study carefully during the last two

> > decades.

> >

> > My personal opinion is not important, but it is

> > important what the

> > teachings give us for our benefit.

> >

> > >If some miraclulous powers exist, these should

> > correct the human

> > >mind with their power rather than asking for

> > obedience or

> > compliance.

> > >Inder

> >

> > Obedience or compliance for us might look negative,

> > as we

> > are `stuck' in a bodily conception. We think we are

> > American,

> > European, Hindi, Muslim, Christian, male, female,

> > scholared, priest,

> > brahmin, boss, etc…

> > We identify with things we ARE NOT. This is why we

> > suffer and are

> > unhappy – nothing can make us happy. The soul is

> > spiritual. And only

> > spiritual and transcendental things can satisfy us.

> > The true happiness comes from the heart and soul,

> > but we think we

> > can buy this happiness with money, a great car, good

> > job, power,

> > beautiful wife and children, affiliation to some

> > religion, nation,

> > political party, caste, etc.

> >

> > God created the law of karma because He gave us

> > freedom; He is no

> > tyrant or dictator who rules us and corrects us. The

> > law of karma is

> > equal for all. He doesn't make a difference. This

> > law is what

> > corrects us, not He Himself. The law of karma is

> > hard, and entangles

> > us more and more into this material existence – the

> > cycle of rebirth

> > and death.

> >

> > This is why our Lord out of His mercy created the

> > process which

> > teaches us how to liberate. This process is simple:

> > purification

> > through worship, remember of God, by developing

> > through this good

> > qualities, which later will be even transcended.

> >

> > By chanting His name we wash our mind and elevate

> > our consciousness,

> > through having company with God, as His name, by

> > remembering Him and

> > meditating on Him.

> > We must elevate our consciousness. We people from

> > this Earth

> > degraded in the last centuries, more and more. We

> > did not improve

> > things become worse and worse. We become more and

> > more

> > materialistic, atheistic and unscrupulous. Things

> > which for our

> > Grandparents were even impossible or too absurd to

> > think about

> > became normal for us. As for example abortion, mass

> > slaughterhouses,

> > mass-destruction weapons, which in a couple of

> > seconds will

> > exterminate life on Earth in between a couple of

> > seconds, I could

> > write a book on this, but am sure you understand

> > what I am trying to

> > say.

> >

> > Siva is the father of all living beings, and it is

> > Hindi-culture to

> > serve and love the father.

> > Then, how can this actually be called obedience or

> > compliance?

> >

> > Let's chant the holy names and drink the nectar of

> > the holy names!

> > Because this is what brings true happiness. For us

> > and for God!

> >

> > All the best,

> > Shad

> >

> > Om namah sivaya!

> > Harekrishna!

> >

>

November 19, 2004

Beautiful posting, Shad Ji, and a very interesting thread.

, "Shad" <waterpowers>

wrote:

>

> Hi Surya,

> pranam.

>

> > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > has a book read it once!

>

> Please send the URL of the site, I would like to have a look too.

>

> Best regards,

> Shad

>

> , surya vishnubhotla

> <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > Shad have u ever read Brahma sutra bhasyas? one in

> > particular by Ramanuja and shankaracharya (saririka

> > bhasya) are wonderful to read ...

> >

> > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > has a book read it once!

> >

> > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Dear Inder ji,

> > > pranam!

> > >

> > > Thank you for your reply!

> > >

> > > >About God, I have one question, why did He create

> > > us. We were

> > > >perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

> > >

> > > In Bhagavat Geeta it is written that there are two

> > > kinds of jivas,

> > > the eternally liberated, who live in the spiritual

> > > world, who are

> > > perfect and never took birth in the material world.

> > > And there is the second kind of jivas that are

> > > conditioned as we are

> > > who take birth, by being exhaled by Lord Vishnu.

> > > After destruction

> > > of the material abode, those jivas will be inhaled

> > > by Lord Vishnu

> > > again, and fall into an unconscious sleep, until

> > > time will come

> > > again for creation and existence in the material

> > > world.

> > >

> > > But those conditioned jivas that achieve

> > > transcendence will come to

> > > the spiritual abode, and never again fall back into

> > > material

> > > existence.

> > >

> > > Why God has created two kinds of jivas, those who

> > > live in the

> > > spiritual world, and us who stay `down here', need

> > > to be liberated

> > > to come to the spiritual world – we must ask God

> > > Himself maybe. I

> > > often asked sadhus this same question, and they said

> > > that maybe God

> > > simply fulfilled our desires to enjoy independently

> > > without Him.

> > > He created this material world and bodies, so we

> > > could forget Him,

> > > and be our own God… sure He also created rules like

> > > karma. I also

> > > received the answer that each of us once was Brahma,

> > > creator. But I

> > > was also told that many things we will only be able

> > > to understand

> > > when we achieve the transcendental level. Because

> > > this is another

> > > dimension, we are not able to understand from his

> > > material level.

> > >

> > > >Why should God need prayers or our compliances,

> > > when He Himself can

> > > >modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

> > >

> > > God does not need prayers and compliances! It is His

> > > mercy He gave

> > > us this process so we can wash clean from our karma,

> > > develop our

> > > consciousness to a transcendental level, achieve

> > > self-realization so

> > > we can worship Him, and recognize our soul, the real

> > > self. It is a

> > > purification process for us, which enables us to

> > > return home to God,

> > > so we can develop again bhakti for Him.

> > >

> > > He does not need anything, He is Bhagavan. Bhagavan

> > > is one who owes

> > > everything. This is for our good, not for His

> > > profit.

> > >

> > > >please forgive me for these words. I am not writing

> > > this in

> > > >arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

> > >

> > > I apologize if my reply sounded like that! I never

> > > blame a person,

> > > but the thinking in common. And I do not represent

> > > my own thinking,

> > > or opinion, but merely the teachings of Siddhanta,

> > > which I have

> > > tried to study carefully during the last two

> > > decades.

> > >

> > > My personal opinion is not important, but it is

> > > important what the

> > > teachings give us for our benefit.

> > >

> > > >If some miraclulous powers exist, these should

> > > correct the human

> > > >mind with their power rather than asking for

> > > obedience or

> > > compliance.

> > > >Inder

> > >

> > > Obedience or compliance for us might look negative,

> > > as we

> > > are `stuck' in a bodily conception. We think we are

> > > American,

> > > European, Hindi, Muslim, Christian, male, female,

> > > scholared, priest,

> > > brahmin, boss, etc…

> > > We identify with things we ARE NOT. This is why we

> > > suffer and are

> > > unhappy – nothing can make us happy. The soul is

> > > spiritual. And only

> > > spiritual and transcendental things can satisfy us.

> > > The true happiness comes from the heart and soul,

> > > but we think we

> > > can buy this happiness with money, a great car, good

> > > job, power,

> > > beautiful wife and children, affiliation to some

> > > religion, nation,

> > > political party, caste, etc.

> > >

> > > God created the law of karma because He gave us

> > > freedom; He is no

> > > tyrant or dictator who rules us and corrects us. The

> > > law of karma is

> > > equal for all. He doesn't make a difference. This

> > > law is what

> > > corrects us, not He Himself. The law of karma is

> > > hard, and entangles

> > > us more and more into this material existence – the

> > > cycle of rebirth

> > > and death.

> > >

> > > This is why our Lord out of His mercy created the

> > > process which

> > > teaches us how to liberate. This process is simple:

> > > purification

> > > through worship, remember of God, by developing

> > > through this good

> > > qualities, which later will be even transcended.

> > >

> > > By chanting His name we wash our mind and elevate

> > > our consciousness,

> > > through having company with God, as His name, by

> > > remembering Him and

> > > meditating on Him.

> > > We must elevate our consciousness. We people from

> > > this Earth

> > > degraded in the last centuries, more and more. We

> > > did not improve

> > > things become worse and worse. We become more and

> > > more

> > > materialistic, atheistic and unscrupulous. Things

> > > which for our

> > > Grandparents were even impossible or too absurd to

> > > think about

> > > became normal for us. As for example abortion, mass

> > > slaughterhouses,

> > > mass-destruction weapons, which in a couple of

> > > seconds will

> > > exterminate life on Earth in between a couple of

> > > seconds, I could

> > > write a book on this, but am sure you understand

> > > what I am trying to

> > > say.

> > >

> > > Siva is the father of all living beings, and it is

> > > Hindi-culture to

> > > serve and love the father.

> > > Then, how can this actually be called obedience or

> > > compliance?

> > >

> > > Let's chant the holy names and drink the nectar of

> > > the holy names!

> > > Because this is what brings true happiness. For us

> > > and for God!

> > >

> > > All the best,

> > > Shad

> > >

> > > Om namah sivaya!

> > > Harekrishna!

> > >

> >

November 19, 2004

Dear Sreelatha,

Pranam!

Thanks for you kind words!

Best regards

Shad

Om namaha sivaya

Hare Krishna

, "V. Sreelatha"

<venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

>

> Beautiful posting, Shad Ji, and a very interesting thread.

>

> , "Shad" <waterpowers>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Surya,

> > pranam.

> >

> > > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > > has a book read it once!

> >

> > Please send the URL of the site, I would like to have a look too.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Shad

> >

> > , surya vishnubhotla

> > <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > > Shad have u ever read Brahma sutra bhasyas? one in

> > > particular by Ramanuja and shankaracharya (saririka

> > > bhasya) are wonderful to read ...

> > >

> > > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > > has a book read it once!

> > >

> > > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Inder ji,

> > > > pranam!

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your reply!

> > > >

> > > > >About God, I have one question, why did He create

> > > > us. We were

> > > > >perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

> > > >

> > > > In Bhagavat Geeta it is written that there are two

> > > > kinds of jivas,

> > > > the eternally liberated, who live in the spiritual

> > > > world, who are

> > > > perfect and never took birth in the material world.

> > > > And there is the second kind of jivas that are

> > > > conditioned as we are

> > > > who take birth, by being exhaled by Lord Vishnu.

> > > > After destruction

> > > > of the material abode, those jivas will be inhaled

> > > > by Lord Vishnu

> > > > again, and fall into an unconscious sleep, until

> > > > time will come

> > > > again for creation and existence in the material

> > > > world.

> > > >

> > > > But those conditioned jivas that achieve

> > > > transcendence will come to

> > > > the spiritual abode, and never again fall back into

> > > > material

> > > > existence.

> > > >

> > > > Why God has created two kinds of jivas, those who

> > > > live in the

> > > > spiritual world, and us who stay `down here', need

> > > > to be liberated

> > > > to come to the spiritual world – we must ask God

> > > > Himself maybe. I

> > > > often asked sadhus this same question, and they said

> > > > that maybe God

> > > > simply fulfilled our desires to enjoy independently

> > > > without Him.

> > > > He created this material world and bodies, so we

> > > > could forget Him,

> > > > and be our own God… sure He also created rules like

> > > > karma. I also

> > > > received the answer that each of us once was Brahma,

> > > > creator. But I

> > > > was also told that many things we will only be able

> > > > to understand

> > > > when we achieve the transcendental level. Because

> > > > this is another

> > > > dimension, we are not able to understand from his

> > > > material level.

> > > >

> > > > >Why should God need prayers or our compliances,

> > > > when He Himself can

> > > > >modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

> > > >

> > > > God does not need prayers and compliances! It is His

> > > > mercy He gave

> > > > us this process so we can wash clean from our karma,

> > > > develop our

> > > > consciousness to a transcendental level, achieve

> > > > self-realization so

> > > > we can worship Him, and recognize our soul, the real

> > > > self. It is a

> > > > purification process for us, which enables us to

> > > > return home to God,

> > > > so we can develop again bhakti for Him.

> > > >

> > > > He does not need anything, He is Bhagavan. Bhagavan

> > > > is one who owes

> > > > everything. This is for our good, not for His

> > > > profit.

> > > >

> > > > >please forgive me for these words. I am not writing

> > > > this in

> > > > >arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

> > > >

> > > > I apologize if my reply sounded like that! I never

> > > > blame a person,

> > > > but the thinking in common. And I do not represent

> > > > my own thinking,

> > > > or opinion, but merely the teachings of Siddhanta,

> > > > which I have

> > > > tried to study carefully during the last two

> > > > decades.

> > > >

> > > > My personal opinion is not important, but it is

> > > > important what the

> > > > teachings give us for our benefit.

> > > >

> > > > >If some miraclulous powers exist, these should

> > > > correct the human

> > > > >mind with their power rather than asking for

> > > > obedience or

> > > > compliance.

> > > > >Inder

> > > >

> > > > Obedience or compliance for us might look negative,

> > > > as we

> > > > are `stuck' in a bodily conception. We think we are

> > > > American,

> > > > European, Hindi, Muslim, Christian, male, female,

> > > > scholared, priest,

> > > > brahmin, boss, etc…

> > > > We identify with things we ARE NOT. This is why we

> > > > suffer and are

> > > > unhappy – nothing can make us happy. The soul is

> > > > spiritual. And only

> > > > spiritual and transcendental things can satisfy us.

> > > > The true happiness comes from the heart and soul,

> > > > but we think we

> > > > can buy this happiness with money, a great car, good

> > > > job, power,

> > > > beautiful wife and children, affiliation to some

> > > > religion, nation,

> > > > political party, caste, etc.

> > > >

> > > > God created the law of karma because He gave us

> > > > freedom; He is no

> > > > tyrant or dictator who rules us and corrects us. The

> > > > law of karma is

> > > > equal for all. He doesn't make a difference. This

> > > > law is what

> > > > corrects us, not He Himself. The law of karma is

> > > > hard, and entangles

> > > > us more and more into this material existence – the

> > > > cycle of rebirth

> > > > and death.

> > > >

> > > > This is why our Lord out of His mercy created the

> > > > process which

> > > > teaches us how to liberate. This process is simple:

> > > > purification

> > > > through worship, remember of God, by developing

> > > > through this good

> > > > qualities, which later will be even transcended.

> > > >

> > > > By chanting His name we wash our mind and elevate

> > > > our consciousness,

> > > > through having company with God, as His name, by

> > > > remembering Him and

> > > > meditating on Him.

> > > > We must elevate our consciousness. We people from

> > > > this Earth

> > > > degraded in the last centuries, more and more. We

> > > > did not improve

> > > > things become worse and worse. We become more and

> > > > more

> > > > materialistic, atheistic and unscrupulous. Things

> > > > which for our

> > > > Grandparents were even impossible or too absurd to

> > > > think about

> > > > became normal for us. As for example abortion, mass

> > > > slaughterhouses,

> > > > mass-destruction weapons, which in a couple of

> > > > seconds will

> > > > exterminate life on Earth in between a couple of

> > > > seconds, I could

> > > > write a book on this, but am sure you understand

> > > > what I am trying to

> > > > say.

> > > >

> > > > Siva is the father of all living beings, and it is

> > > > Hindi-culture to

> > > > serve and love the father.

> > > > Then, how can this actually be called obedience or

> > > > compliance?

> > > >

> > > > Let's chant the holy names and drink the nectar of

> > > > the holy names!

> > > > Because this is what brings true happiness. For us

> > > > and for God!

> > > >

> > > > All the best,

> > > > Shad

> > > >

> > > > Om namah sivaya!

> > > > Harekrishna!

> > > >

> > >

> > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

> > >

November 19, 2004

Dear Shad,

You gave interesting theory of Creation.

Some one else said : universe is created for the Ego of BRAHAMA.

We create things for ego, sometimes without perpose.

Anyway, let us not strech the logic to too far as our thinking

machines are not capable to grasp the Whole with the existing

concepts of Time and Consciousness.

Thanks... and good wishes..

Inder

-- In , "Shad" <waterpowers>

wrote:

>

> Dear Sreelatha,

> Pranam!

>

> Thanks for you kind words!

>

> Best regards

> Shad

>

> Om namaha sivaya

> Hare Krishna

>

> , "V. Sreelatha"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> >

> > Beautiful posting, Shad Ji, and a very interesting thread.

> >

> > , "Shad"

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Surya,

> > > pranam.

> > >

> > > > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > > > has a book read it once!

> > >

> > > Please send the URL of the site, I would like to have a look

too.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Shad

> > >

> > > , surya vishnubhotla

> > > <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > > > Shad have u ever read Brahma sutra bhasyas? one in

> > > > particular by Ramanuja and shankaracharya (saririka

> > > > bhasya) are wonderful to read ...

> > > >

> > > > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > > > has a book read it once!

> > > >

> > > > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Inder ji,

> > > > > pranam!

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you for your reply!

> > > > >

> > > > > >About God, I have one question, why did He create

> > > > > us. We were

> > > > > >perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

> > > > >

> > > > > In Bhagavat Geeta it is written that there are two

> > > > > kinds of jivas,

> > > > > the eternally liberated, who live in the spiritual

> > > > > world, who are

> > > > > perfect and never took birth in the material world.

> > > > > And there is the second kind of jivas that are

> > > > > conditioned as we are

> > > > > who take birth, by being exhaled by Lord Vishnu.

> > > > > After destruction

> > > > > of the material abode, those jivas will be inhaled

> > > > > by Lord Vishnu

> > > > > again, and fall into an unconscious sleep, until

> > > > > time will come

> > > > > again for creation and existence in the material

> > > > > world.

> > > > >

> > > > > But those conditioned jivas that achieve

> > > > > transcendence will come to

> > > > > the spiritual abode, and never again fall back into

> > > > > material

> > > > > existence.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why God has created two kinds of jivas, those who

> > > > > live in the

> > > > > spiritual world, and us who stay `down here', need

> > > > > to be liberated

> > > > > to come to the spiritual world – we must ask God

> > > > > Himself maybe. I

> > > > > often asked sadhus this same question, and they said

> > > > > that maybe God

> > > > > simply fulfilled our desires to enjoy independently

> > > > > without Him.

> > > > > He created this material world and bodies, so we

> > > > > could forget Him,

> > > > > and be our own God… sure He also created rules like

> > > > > karma. I also

> > > > > received the answer that each of us once was Brahma,

> > > > > creator. But I

> > > > > was also told that many things we will only be able

> > > > > to understand

> > > > > when we achieve the transcendental level. Because

> > > > > this is another

> > > > > dimension, we are not able to understand from his

> > > > > material level.

> > > > >

> > > > > >Why should God need prayers or our compliances,

> > > > > when He Himself can

> > > > > >modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

> > > > >

> > > > > God does not need prayers and compliances! It is His

> > > > > mercy He gave

> > > > > us this process so we can wash clean from our karma,

> > > > > develop our

> > > > > consciousness to a transcendental level, achieve

> > > > > self-realization so

> > > > > we can worship Him, and recognize our soul, the real

> > > > > self. It is a

> > > > > purification process for us, which enables us to

> > > > > return home to God,

> > > > > so we can develop again bhakti for Him.

> > > > >

> > > > > He does not need anything, He is Bhagavan. Bhagavan

> > > > > is one who owes

> > > > > everything. This is for our good, not for His

> > > > > profit.

> > > > >

> > > > > >please forgive me for these words. I am not writing

> > > > > this in

> > > > > >arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > I apologize if my reply sounded like that! I never

> > > > > blame a person,

> > > > > but the thinking in common. And I do not represent

> > > > > my own thinking,

> > > > > or opinion, but merely the teachings of Siddhanta,

> > > > > which I have

> > > > > tried to study carefully during the last two

> > > > > decades.

> > > > >

> > > > > My personal opinion is not important, but it is

> > > > > important what the

> > > > > teachings give us for our benefit.

> > > > >

> > > > > >If some miraclulous powers exist, these should

> > > > > correct the human

> > > > > >mind with their power rather than asking for

> > > > > obedience or

> > > > > compliance.

> > > > > >Inder

> > > > >

> > > > > Obedience or compliance for us might look negative,

> > > > > as we

> > > > > are `stuck' in a bodily conception. We think we are

> > > > > American,

> > > > > European, Hindi, Muslim, Christian, male, female,

> > > > > scholared, priest,

> > > > > brahmin, boss, etc…

> > > > > We identify with things we ARE NOT. This is why we

> > > > > suffer and are

> > > > > unhappy – nothing can make us happy. The soul is

> > > > > spiritual. And only

> > > > > spiritual and transcendental things can satisfy us.

> > > > > The true happiness comes from the heart and soul,

> > > > > but we think we

> > > > > can buy this happiness with money, a great car, good

> > > > > job, power,

> > > > > beautiful wife and children, affiliation to some

> > > > > religion, nation,

> > > > > political party, caste, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > God created the law of karma because He gave us

> > > > > freedom; He is no

> > > > > tyrant or dictator who rules us and corrects us. The

> > > > > law of karma is

> > > > > equal for all. He doesn't make a difference. This

> > > > > law is what

> > > > > corrects us, not He Himself. The law of karma is

> > > > > hard, and entangles

> > > > > us more and more into this material existence – the

> > > > > cycle of rebirth

> > > > > and death.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is why our Lord out of His mercy created the

> > > > > process which

> > > > > teaches us how to liberate. This process is simple:

> > > > > purification

> > > > > through worship, remember of God, by developing

> > > > > through this good

> > > > > qualities, which later will be even transcended.

> > > > >

> > > > > By chanting His name we wash our mind and elevate

> > > > > our consciousness,

> > > > > through having company with God, as His name, by

> > > > > remembering Him and

> > > > > meditating on Him.

> > > > > We must elevate our consciousness. We people from

> > > > > this Earth

> > > > > degraded in the last centuries, more and more. We

> > > > > did not improve

> > > > > things become worse and worse. We become more and

> > > > > more

> > > > > materialistic, atheistic and unscrupulous. Things

> > > > > which for our

> > > > > Grandparents were even impossible or too absurd to

> > > > > think about

> > > > > became normal for us. As for example abortion, mass

> > > > > slaughterhouses,

> > > > > mass-destruction weapons, which in a couple of

> > > > > seconds will

> > > > > exterminate life on Earth in between a couple of

> > > > > seconds, I could

> > > > > write a book on this, but am sure you understand

> > > > > what I am trying to

> > > > > say.

> > > > >

> > > > > Siva is the father of all living beings, and it is

> > > > > Hindi-culture to

> > > > > serve and love the father.

> > > > > Then, how can this actually be called obedience or

> > > > > compliance?

> > > > >

> > > > > Let's chant the holy names and drink the nectar of

> > > > > the holy names!

> > > > > Because this is what brings true happiness. For us

> > > > > and for God!

> > > > >

> > > > > All the best,

> > > > > Shad

> > > > >

> > > > > Om namah sivaya!

> > > > > Harekrishna!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> around

> > > >

November 20, 2004

Dear Inder,

The Soul is all- knowing all mysteries can be solved if we undertake

a deep research and search in our inner self. Thank you for the nice

debate.

Best regards and wishes

Shad

Om namaha sivaya

Hare Krishna

, "Inder"

<indervohra2001> wrote:

>

> Dear Shad,

> You gave interesting theory of Creation.

> Some one else said : universe is created for the Ego of BRAHAMA.

> We create things for ego, sometimes without perpose.

> Anyway, let us not strech the logic to too far as our thinking

> machines are not capable to grasp the Whole with the existing

> concepts of Time and Consciousness.

> Thanks... and good wishes..

> Inder

>

> -- In , "Shad" <waterpowers>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreelatha,

> > Pranam!

> >

> > Thanks for you kind words!

> >

> > Best regards

> > Shad

> >

> > Om namaha sivaya

> > Hare Krishna

> >

> > , "V. Sreelatha"

> > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > >

> > > Beautiful posting, Shad Ji, and a very interesting thread.

> > >

> > > , "Shad"

> <waterpowers>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi Surya,

> > > > pranam.

> > > >

> > > > > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > > > > has a book read it once!

> > > >

> > > > Please send the URL of the site, I would like to have a look

> too.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Shad

> > > >

> > > > , surya vishnubhotla

> > > > <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > > > > Shad have u ever read Brahma sutra bhasyas? one in

> > > > > particular by Ramanuja and shankaracharya (saririka

> > > > > bhasya) are wonderful to read ...

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyhow .. the site I mentioned earlier in a diff mail

> > > > > has a book read it once!

> > > > >

> > > > > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Inder ji,

> > > > > > pranam!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you for your reply!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >About God, I have one question, why did He create

> > > > > > us. We were

> > > > > > >perhaps happy unborne and non exitant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In Bhagavat Geeta it is written that there are two

> > > > > > kinds of jivas,

> > > > > > the eternally liberated, who live in the spiritual

> > > > > > world, who are

> > > > > > perfect and never took birth in the material world.

> > > > > > And there is the second kind of jivas that are

> > > > > > conditioned as we are

> > > > > > who take birth, by being exhaled by Lord Vishnu.

> > > > > > After destruction

> > > > > > of the material abode, those jivas will be inhaled

> > > > > > by Lord Vishnu

> > > > > > again, and fall into an unconscious sleep, until

> > > > > > time will come

> > > > > > again for creation and existence in the material

> > > > > > world.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But those conditioned jivas that achieve

> > > > > > transcendence will come to

> > > > > > the spiritual abode, and never again fall back into

> > > > > > material

> > > > > > existence.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why God has created two kinds of jivas, those who

> > > > > > live in the

> > > > > > spiritual world, and us who stay `down here', need

> > > > > > to be liberated

> > > > > > to come to the spiritual world – we must ask God

> > > > > > Himself maybe. I

> > > > > > often asked sadhus this same question, and they said

> > > > > > that maybe God

> > > > > > simply fulfilled our desires to enjoy independently

> > > > > > without Him.

> > > > > > He created this material world and bodies, so we

> > > > > > could forget Him,

> > > > > > and be our own God… sure He also created rules like

> > > > > > karma. I also

> > > > > > received the answer that each of us once was Brahma,

> > > > > > creator. But I

> > > > > > was also told that many things we will only be able

> > > > > > to understand

> > > > > > when we achieve the transcendental level. Because

> > > > > > this is another

> > > > > > dimension, we are not able to understand from his

> > > > > > material level.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >Why should God need prayers or our compliances,

> > > > > > when He Himself can

> > > > > > >modyfy all of us to behave humanly(?!).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > God does not need prayers and compliances! It is His

> > > > > > mercy He gave

> > > > > > us this process so we can wash clean from our karma,

> > > > > > develop our

> > > > > > consciousness to a transcendental level, achieve

> > > > > > self-realization so

> > > > > > we can worship Him, and recognize our soul, the real

> > > > > > self. It is a

> > > > > > purification process for us, which enables us to

> > > > > > return home to God,

> > > > > > so we can develop again bhakti for Him.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He does not need anything, He is Bhagavan. Bhagavan

> > > > > > is one who owes

> > > > > > everything. This is for our good, not for His

> > > > > > profit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >please forgive me for these words. I am not writing

> > > > > > this in

> > > > > > >arrogance or egoism. These things come to mind.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I apologize if my reply sounded like that! I never

> > > > > > blame a person,

> > > > > > but the thinking in common. And I do not represent

> > > > > > my own thinking,

> > > > > > or opinion, but merely the teachings of Siddhanta,

> > > > > > which I have

> > > > > > tried to study carefully during the last two

> > > > > > decades.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My personal opinion is not important, but it is

> > > > > > important what the

> > > > > > teachings give us for our benefit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >If some miraclulous powers exist, these should

> > > > > > correct the human

> > > > > > >mind with their power rather than asking for

> > > > > > obedience or

> > > > > > compliance.

> > > > > > >Inder

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Obedience or compliance for us might look negative,

> > > > > > as we

> > > > > > are `stuck' in a bodily conception. We think we are

> > > > > > American,

> > > > > > European, Hindi, Muslim, Christian, male, female,

> > > > > > scholared, priest,

> > > > > > brahmin, boss, etc…

> > > > > > We identify with things we ARE NOT. This is why we

> > > > > > suffer and are

> > > > > > unhappy – nothing can make us happy. The soul is

> > > > > > spiritual. And only

> > > > > > spiritual and transcendental things can satisfy us.

> > > > > > The true happiness comes from the heart and soul,

> > > > > > but we think we

> > > > > > can buy this happiness with money, a great car, good

> > > > > > job, power,

> > > > > > beautiful wife and children, affiliation to some

> > > > > > religion, nation,

> > > > > > political party, caste, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > God created the law of karma because He gave us

> > > > > > freedom; He is no

> > > > > > tyrant or dictator who rules us and corrects us. The

> > > > > > law of karma is

> > > > > > equal for all. He doesn't make a difference. This

> > > > > > law is what

> > > > > > corrects us, not He Himself. The law of karma is

> > > > > > hard, and entangles

> > > > > > us more and more into this material existence – the

> > > > > > cycle of rebirth

> > > > > > and death.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is why our Lord out of His mercy created the

> > > > > > process which

> > > > > > teaches us how to liberate. This process is simple:

> > > > > > purification

> > > > > > through worship, remember of God, by developing

> > > > > > through this good

> > > > > > qualities, which later will be even transcended.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > By chanting His name we wash our mind and elevate

> > > > > > our consciousness,

> > > > > > through having company with God, as His name, by

> > > > > > remembering Him and

> > > > > > meditating on Him.

> > > > > > We must elevate our consciousness. We people from

> > > > > > this Earth

> > > > > > degraded in the last centuries, more and more. We

> > > > > > did not improve

> > > > > > things become worse and worse. We become more and

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > materialistic, atheistic and unscrupulous. Things

> > > > > > which for our

> > > > > > Grandparents were even impossible or too absurd to

> > > > > > think about

> > > > > > became normal for us. As for example abortion, mass

> > > > > > slaughterhouses,

> > > > > > mass-destruction weapons, which in a couple of

> > > > > > seconds will

> > > > > > exterminate life on Earth in between a couple of

> > > > > > seconds, I could

> > > > > > write a book on this, but am sure you understand

> > > > > > what I am trying to

> > > > > > say.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Siva is the father of all living beings, and it is

> > > > > > Hindi-culture to

> > > > > > serve and love the father.

> > > > > > Then, how can this actually be called obedience or

> > > > > > compliance?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let's chant the holy names and drink the nectar of

> > > > > > the holy names!

> > > > > > Because this is what brings true happiness. For us

> > > > > > and for God!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All the best,

> > > > > > Shad

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om namah sivaya!

> > > > > > Harekrishna!

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > around

> > > > >

Incarnations Of Lord Shiva-rohiniranjan

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