Gemstones, remedies, FREE WILL (RE: Current discussion

November 11, 2004

Dear Rohini Ji,

Well, believing in astrology doesnt mean it has anything to do with

believing in gems/remedies. Yes, astrology can help people know

their future, if predicted correctly and may be prepare themselves

mentally, and accept the fact that what has to happen will and we

have

to accept what life offers us. Yes, I said SOME astrologers because

those who prescribe gems etc claim themselves to be

astrologers...they may

not be...

I hope this amswers your question...Can you tell me how do you think

astrology may help people...otherwise?

Manoshi

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

>

> Manoshi ji,

>

> I have been following your postings for some time.

>

> Leaving aside the conundrum of remedies (particulate and waves)

and

> their efficacy, do you personally really believe in astrology?

>

> If yes, how do you think it can help regular, ordinary people

> (majority)?

>

> RR

>

> , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> <khallopapa> wrote:

> >

> > A long story....eh? anyways, Tanvir, if it was so easy to

change

> > our fate with gems, at least a few of us, SOME who claim to be

good

> > astrologers and know the remedies would all have got what they

> > wanted...well i have no idea about if refractive indices can

> effect

> > our body or not (I dont wear any gem stone or any thing)...just

an

> > opinion...they may have...but on fate I have doubts.

> >

> > Manoshi

> >

> > , "Tanvir"

<ultimate@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Refractive indices of the gem stones may have something to do

> with

> > the body... hm, I see ! :-D

> > >

> > > I have seen talking my chemistry teacher that all gemstones

are

> > basically of same chemical composition, and hence the efficacy

of

> > gemstones on a human body can not be proved scientifically. Most

> for

> > when it comes about different stones bringing different kinds of

> > effects.

> > >

> > > If you have come across any scientific documents showing gems

> > chemical composition affecting one's health, mind etc., self

would

> > be interested to read it. Please forward me or else do let me

know

> > about the unavailability of the same, self would be waiting.

> > >

> > > However whatever things can be proved by chemical compositions

of

> > gems, it is indeed very difficult to prove their AREA OF

EFFICACY

> > for a particular person. As an example, a blue sapphire's stone

> > giving me huge monetory gains when I wore it, a 5L+6L in 2H

> explains

> > this. Any gems effects and results very much behaves as per the

> > position of the planet in the chart. it never gives an effect on

an

> > area where it is not connected in the chart.

> > >

> > > Some say gems do not affect the fate. They can just make you

more

> > attentive, more energetic that leads to success indirectly. Bla

bla

> > bla. I have listened to this manytimes. But how come only those

> > areas concerned in the chart be affected? Gems thus behave in

> > a "systematic way". All remedies such as mantras, yajnas, even

> > chairities behave in the same way. It is not that you do any

> > remedies and random things happen. But just those things

connected

> > with the planet in the charts get affected. This is a most

divine

> > prove of the Jyotish itself.

> > >

> > > One simple thing people really do not understand that what is

you

> > LUCK is the result of the behaviour of people around you. So

> > whatever remedy you do (Mantra/ yajna /stones/charity) which

> > improves your luck / has an effect on your luck MUST change some

> > behaviour of people around you so that the change in your luck

> comes

> > to be materialized. A mantra might bring a promotion but there

your

> > upper level admin's free will is controlled to make that happen.

A

> > wrong stone making you hunt in an accident did control the taxy

> > drivers free will to drive the taxy in a risky way, or to be out

of

> > mind for a while.

> > >

> > > People really fail to see how each of our behaviours,

including

> > the chart readers own behaviours are fully under control, all

> behave

> > as per their karma, and that is their chart.

> > >

> > > Even if the gems JUST affect our body and mind, it DOES ending

up

> > affecting our fate as usual, also the fates of the people around

> us.

> > A gemstone making you feel tired or depressive make you deny to

go

> > out with your lover for a walk, then indeed there is some

changes

> in

> > your lovers fate already ! Behaviour and fate walk together and

> > affecting anyone would affect the other one, and thus the effect

of

> > remedies on our fate as well as behaviour is very perfectly

> > justified.

> > >

> > > An astrologer reads the chart, gives remedies, but that is

VERY

> > MUCH being under the influence of planets. Otherwise, what the

> > idiots study "Charts of astrologers" ? If a chart of an

astrologer

> > shows such, then the person is actually forced to be an

astrologer

> > as per his destiny, what we could predict right when he was

born.

> > Same thing applies abt doctors, attorneys, police, army

officers,

> > govt officials, writers etc etc. We praise someone that he has

> great

> > writing ability. And we also see that his chart says so. But

then,

> > we fail to adjust the two facts together and understand that how

> > planets ie the agents of karma forcing him to act in a

particular

> > way, developing a writing skill, being interested in writings,

> doing

> > write ups etc etc.

> > >

> > > A simple logic. Let us do some elementary maths. I hope since

we

> > are studying astrology we believe there is SOME predictive power

in

> > it. Then, if we say that astrology can predict 1%, then we have

to

> > admit that we have 99% free will. If astro can predict 35% of

it,

> we

> > only have 65% free will. As much accurate astrology becomes, as

> much

> > subtle predictions it can make, and as much deep it goes, and as

> > much small things it can say, and as less our free will becomes.

If

> > astrology can predict 99%, then we admit that we have only a

slight

> > (1%) free will.

> > >

> > > Once I was discussing my moms chart in a list, I just gave the

> > data and said that she married such month in such year. And one

KP

> > student said, was this very close to the 15th of that month?

> > Actually, it was on 14th !!! So all the guardians of my parents

> > fixing the marriage date become complete goobly gook robots of

the

> > karma. SO WE ALL ARE.

> > >

> > > ONE MOST AMAZING FACT. Do not know if you will believe. In my

> > relationship life, there were some times when my ex-GF a few

times

> > gave me some bad news on ONE PARTICULAR SUBJECT. Later, most

> > amazingly, I saw that all the dates she gave me those bad news

were

> > either the 14th or the 15th of the months !!! I believe very

less

> in

> > neumerology, so I dag a bit more and saw, that on ALL THOSE

> MOMENTS,

> > Sun was right on the edge of the signs in transit. Most times it

> was

> > in 29 deg30min to 29 deg 55 mins. A planet on the edge of a

rashi

> > becomes weak, a well known dictum, and this was proved in my

life

> > very much. Total 5/6 times she gave me bad news on the same

subject

> > and all happened with the same SUN-TRANSIT. Can it be a co-

> incident?

> > Duh, or was her free will controlled?

> > >

> > > Though the bad event happened earlier, but she gave me that

bad

> > news as per my TR weakness. There are differences on the two

> events.

> > When it happens to her, her chart is to consult, since SHE

> > experiences it then. And when she TELLS ME THAT (I came to know

it)

> > then MY CHART is to be consulted. So if you are abroad and know

> > about your father's death after a weak, the day you heard the

news

> > on has much to say. This is my experiences.

> > >

> > > Anyway, Sun is my 12th lord and not astrology relates the

subject

> > of bad news with 12th lord in any way. But I have strengthened

my

> > 12th lord with stones, mantra, colours and perfectly saw that

the

> > subject gets affected as well. And this is a prime subject for

my

> > futur researches. And here I again agree with Tatvam Ji about

not

> > letting out own researches flash, for being rediculed.

> > >

> > > LET THE "WISE PPL" KNOW AND BELIEVE WHAT ARE THEY UP TO :-)

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Tanvir.

> > >

> > > What can not happen, can never happen.

> > > Which is mine, is forever mine.

> > >

> > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

> > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving

> > remedies

> > > Where relief and solutions are found

> > >

> > > -

> > > Manoshi Chatterjee

> > >

> > > Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:50 AM

> > > Re:Rohiniji, Tanvirji, Manojji : Gemstones---

Inder

> > >

> > > "Gem's positive energy will give you mental peace, mental

> > strenght,

> > > feeling of well being, correct thinking,etc etc. However, it

> > would

> > > not have any affect on course of action of fortune or any

> > physical

> > > correction in your fortune."

> > >

> > > You speak my mind Inder. Well the refractive indices of the

gem

> > > stones may have something to do with the body when you wear

> > them,

> > > but how can it change fate?....

> > >

> > > Manoshi

> > >

November 11, 2004

If astrology is merely sooth-saying (psyching people up to brave the

rapids) then that brings in the element of psychological counseling

which most astrologers are not equipped or trained for. This used to

be the way many western astrologers used to work. Many of them, mind

you had psychological backgrounds, so you see so much influence of

psychological schools in tropical astrology (Jungian for instance and

others).

In order to be effective and substantially so, given the effort, time

and energy needs to be expended in properly learning jyotish, it

would have to do more than just morale-building, which by the way

would vary from individual to individual. For the most part,

jyotishis generally shy away from psycho-babble and rightly so unlike

some other divinators. I think, astrology is a tool for experiencing

the fine but dynamic line between fate and free-will.

Remedies form that window into the free-will portion of human

experience. There are times when to row hard and there are times to

pull out the oars and just flow with the flow. Some individuals are

able to sense that and do it intuitively, hence we see successful

individuals who do so well without any divinatory or astrological

advice. There are also the majority who might need such guidance from

time to time but it may not be make or break for them. Then there are

those who have piled up a huge debt because of lost opportunities (I

know you do not believe in reincarnation and so astrology can only

have a very superficial meaning for you with the randomness of birth

thrown in since there is not continuity between lifetimes in your

framework of reference). These latter need to get a perspective on

things and a long-term view of things that are leading to their

distress and doubts. Once that is done, they can take charge instead

of blaming others or simply blaming, and delve into free-will.

Since this is a message board, I should stop there as there is no

point in discussing further and no room for full and continuous

discussion.

Remedies represent many things, as I have said many times, I do not

included the casual prescription and improper or inadequate use of

the easier forms of remedies (tantric mantric forms) as is often

witnessed, a bit dicey. However, as you have seen, my view is not

shared by others.

RR

, "Manoshi Chatterjee"

<khallopapa> wrote:

>

> Dear Rohini Ji,

>

> Well, believing in astrology doesnt mean it has anything to do with

> believing in gems/remedies. Yes, astrology can help people know

> their future, if predicted correctly and may be prepare themselves

> mentally, and accept the fact that what has to happen will and we

> have

> to accept what life offers us. Yes, I said SOME astrologers because

> those who prescribe gems etc claim themselves to be

> astrologers...they may

> not be...

>

> I hope this amswers your question...Can you tell me how do you think

> astrology may help people...otherwise?

>

> Manoshi

> , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Manoshi ji,

> >

> > I have been following your postings for some time.

> >

> > Leaving aside the conundrum of remedies (particulate and waves)

> and

> > their efficacy, do you personally really believe in astrology?

> >

> > If yes, how do you think it can help regular, ordinary people

> > (majority)?

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > >

> > > A long story....eh? anyways, Tanvir, if it was so easy to

> change

> > > our fate with gems, at least a few of us, SOME who claim to be

> good

> > > astrologers and know the remedies would all have got what they

> > > wanted...well i have no idea about if refractive indices can

> > effect

> > > our body or not (I dont wear any gem stone or any thing)...just

> an

> > > opinion...they may have...but on fate I have doubts.

> > >

> > > Manoshi

> > >

> > > , "Tanvir"

> <ultimate@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Refractive indices of the gem stones may have something to do

> > with

> > > the body... hm, I see ! :-D

> > > >

> > > > I have seen talking my chemistry teacher that all gemstones

> are

> > > basically of same chemical composition, and hence the efficacy

> of

> > > gemstones on a human body can not be proved scientifically.

Most

> > for

> > > when it comes about different stones bringing different kinds

of

> > > effects.

> > > >

> > > > If you have come across any scientific documents showing gems

> > > chemical composition affecting one's health, mind etc., self

> would

> > > be interested to read it. Please forward me or else do let me

> know

> > > about the unavailability of the same, self would be waiting.

> > > >

> > > > However whatever things can be proved by chemical

compositions

> of

> > > gems, it is indeed very difficult to prove their AREA OF

> EFFICACY

> > > for a particular person. As an example, a blue sapphire's stone

> > > giving me huge monetory gains when I wore it, a 5L+6L in 2H

> > explains

> > > this. Any gems effects and results very much behaves as per the

> > > position of the planet in the chart. it never gives an effect

on

> an

> > > area where it is not connected in the chart.

> > > >

> > > > Some say gems do not affect the fate. They can just make you

> more

> > > attentive, more energetic that leads to success indirectly. Bla

> bla

> > > bla. I have listened to this manytimes. But how come only those

> > > areas concerned in the chart be affected? Gems thus behave in

> > > a "systematic way". All remedies such as mantras, yajnas, even

> > > chairities behave in the same way. It is not that you do any

> > > remedies and random things happen. But just those things

> connected

> > > with the planet in the charts get affected. This is a most

> divine

> > > prove of the Jyotish itself.

> > > >

> > > > One simple thing people really do not understand that what is

> you

> > > LUCK is the result of the behaviour of people around you. So

> > > whatever remedy you do (Mantra/ yajna /stones/charity) which

> > > improves your luck / has an effect on your luck MUST change

some

> > > behaviour of people around you so that the change in your luck

> > comes

> > > to be materialized. A mantra might bring a promotion but there

> your

> > > upper level admin's free will is controlled to make that

happen.

> A

> > > wrong stone making you hunt in an accident did control the taxy

> > > drivers free will to drive the taxy in a risky way, or to be

out

> of

> > > mind for a while.

> > > >

> > > > People really fail to see how each of our behaviours,

> including

> > > the chart readers own behaviours are fully under control, all

> > behave

> > > as per their karma, and that is their chart.

> > > >

> > > > Even if the gems JUST affect our body and mind, it DOES

ending

> up

> > > affecting our fate as usual, also the fates of the people

around

> > us.

> > > A gemstone making you feel tired or depressive make you deny to

> go

> > > out with your lover for a walk, then indeed there is some

> changes

> > in

> > > your lovers fate already ! Behaviour and fate walk together and

> > > affecting anyone would affect the other one, and thus the

effect

> of

> > > remedies on our fate as well as behaviour is very perfectly

> > > justified.

> > > >

> > > > An astrologer reads the chart, gives remedies, but that is

> VERY

> > > MUCH being under the influence of planets. Otherwise, what the

> > > idiots study "Charts of astrologers" ? If a chart of an

> astrologer

> > > shows such, then the person is actually forced to be an

> astrologer

> > > as per his destiny, what we could predict right when he was

> born.

> > > Same thing applies abt doctors, attorneys, police, army

> officers,

> > > govt officials, writers etc etc. We praise someone that he has

> > great

> > > writing ability. And we also see that his chart says so. But

> then,

> > > we fail to adjust the two facts together and understand that

how

> > > planets ie the agents of karma forcing him to act in a

> particular

> > > way, developing a writing skill, being interested in writings,

> > doing

> > > write ups etc etc.

> > > >

> > > > A simple logic. Let us do some elementary maths. I hope since

> we

> > > are studying astrology we believe there is SOME predictive

power

> in

> > > it. Then, if we say that astrology can predict 1%, then we have

> to

> > > admit that we have 99% free will. If astro can predict 35% of

> it,

> > we

> > > only have 65% free will. As much accurate astrology becomes, as

> > much

> > > subtle predictions it can make, and as much deep it goes, and

as

> > > much small things it can say, and as less our free will

becomes.

> If

> > > astrology can predict 99%, then we admit that we have only a

> slight

> > > (1%) free will.

> > > >

> > > > Once I was discussing my moms chart in a list, I just gave

the

> > > data and said that she married such month in such year. And one

> KP

> > > student said, was this very close to the 15th of that month?

> > > Actually, it was on 14th !!! So all the guardians of my parents

> > > fixing the marriage date become complete goobly gook robots of

> the

> > > karma. SO WE ALL ARE.

> > > >

> > > > ONE MOST AMAZING FACT. Do not know if you will believe. In my

> > > relationship life, there were some times when my ex-GF a few

> times

> > > gave me some bad news on ONE PARTICULAR SUBJECT. Later, most

> > > amazingly, I saw that all the dates she gave me those bad news

> were

> > > either the 14th or the 15th of the months !!! I believe very

> less

> > in

> > > neumerology, so I dag a bit more and saw, that on ALL THOSE

> > MOMENTS,

> > > Sun was right on the edge of the signs in transit. Most times

it

> > was

> > > in 29 deg30min to 29 deg 55 mins. A planet on the edge of a

> rashi

> > > becomes weak, a well known dictum, and this was proved in my

> life

> > > very much. Total 5/6 times she gave me bad news on the same

> subject

> > > and all happened with the same SUN-TRANSIT. Can it be a co-

> > incident?

> > > Duh, or was her free will controlled?

> > > >

> > > > Though the bad event happened earlier, but she gave me that

> bad

> > > news as per my TR weakness. There are differences on the two

> > events.

> > > When it happens to her, her chart is to consult, since SHE

> > > experiences it then. And when she TELLS ME THAT (I came to know

> it)

> > > then MY CHART is to be consulted. So if you are abroad and know

> > > about your father's death after a weak, the day you heard the

> news

> > > on has much to say. This is my experiences.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, Sun is my 12th lord and not astrology relates the

> subject

> > > of bad news with 12th lord in any way. But I have strengthened

> my

> > > 12th lord with stones, mantra, colours and perfectly saw that

> the

> > > subject gets affected as well. And this is a prime subject for

> my

> > > futur researches. And here I again agree with Tatvam Ji about

> not

> > > letting out own researches flash, for being rediculed.

> > > >

> > > > LET THE "WISE PPL" KNOW AND BELIEVE WHAT ARE THEY UP TO :-)

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Tanvir.

> > > >

> > > > What can not happen, can never happen.

> > > > Which is mine, is forever mine.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

> > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving

> > > remedies

> > > > Where relief and solutions are found

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Manoshi Chatterjee

> > > >

> > > > Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:50 AM

> > > > Re:Rohiniji, Tanvirji, Manojji : Gemstones---

> Inder

> > > >

> > > > "Gem's positive energy will give you mental peace, mental

> > > strenght,

> > > > feeling of well being, correct thinking,etc etc. However,

it

> > > would

> > > > not have any affect on course of action of fortune or any

> > > physical

> > > > correction in your fortune."

> > > >

> > > > You speak my mind Inder. Well the refractive indices of the

> gem

> > > > stones may have something to do with the body when you wear

> > > them,

> > > > but how can it change fate?....

> > > >

> > > > Manoshi

> > > >

November 11, 2004

Frankly it was a beautiful posting from you. Yes, I donot believe in

reincarnation nor do I believe in BLAMING, but yes, as I always say,

I have no idea, karmaphal exists or not, but how can we stop doing

karma?...remedies...??? sorry, the day I get a good reason to

believe in remedies, I will defilnitely let you know...

Manoshi

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

>

> If astrology is merely sooth-saying (psyching people up to brave

the

> rapids) then that brings in the element of psychological

counseling

> which most astrologers are not equipped or trained for. This used

to

> be the way many western astrologers used to work. Many of them,

mind

> you had psychological backgrounds, so you see so much influence of

> psychological schools in tropical astrology (Jungian for instance

and

> others).

>

> In order to be effective and substantially so, given the effort,

time

> and energy needs to be expended in properly learning jyotish, it

> would have to do more than just morale-building, which by the way

> would vary from individual to individual. For the most part,

> jyotishis generally shy away from psycho-babble and rightly so

unlike

> some other divinators. I think, astrology is a tool for

experiencing

> the fine but dynamic line between fate and free-will.

>

> Remedies form that window into the free-will portion of human

> experience. There are times when to row hard and there are times

to

> pull out the oars and just flow with the flow. Some individuals

are

> able to sense that and do it intuitively, hence we see successful

> individuals who do so well without any divinatory or astrological

> advice. There are also the majority who might need such guidance

from

> time to time but it may not be make or break for them. Then there

are

> those who have piled up a huge debt because of lost opportunities

(I

> know you do not believe in reincarnation and so astrology can only

> have a very superficial meaning for you with the randomness of

birth

> thrown in since there is not continuity between lifetimes in your

> framework of reference). These latter need to get a perspective on

> things and a long-term view of things that are leading to their

> distress and doubts. Once that is done, they can take charge

instead

> of blaming others or simply blaming, and delve into free-will.

>

> Since this is a message board, I should stop there as there is no

> point in discussing further and no room for full and continuous

> discussion.

>

> Remedies represent many things, as I have said many times, I do

not

> included the casual prescription and improper or inadequate use of

> the easier forms of remedies (tantric mantric forms) as is often

> witnessed, a bit dicey. However, as you have seen, my view is not

> shared by others.

>

> RR

>

> , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> <khallopapa> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rohini Ji,

> >

> > Well, believing in astrology doesnt mean it has anything to do

with

> > believing in gems/remedies. Yes, astrology can help people know

> > their future, if predicted correctly and may be prepare

themselves

> > mentally, and accept the fact that what has to happen will and

we

> > have

> > to accept what life offers us. Yes, I said SOME astrologers

because

> > those who prescribe gems etc claim themselves to be

> > astrologers...they may

> > not be...

> >

> > I hope this amswers your question...Can you tell me how do you

think

> > astrology may help people...otherwise?

> >

> > Manoshi

> > , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Manoshi ji,

> > >

> > > I have been following your postings for some time.

> > >

> > > Leaving aside the conundrum of remedies (particulate and

waves)

> > and

> > > their efficacy, do you personally really believe in astrology?

> > >

> > > If yes, how do you think it can help regular, ordinary people

> > > (majority)?

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> > > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > A long story....eh? anyways, Tanvir, if it was so easy to

> > change

> > > > our fate with gems, at least a few of us, SOME who claim to

be

> > good

> > > > astrologers and know the remedies would all have got what

they

> > > > wanted...well i have no idea about if refractive indices

can

> > > effect

> > > > our body or not (I dont wear any gem stone or any

thing)...just

> > an

> > > > opinion...they may have...but on fate I have doubts.

> > > >

> > > > Manoshi

> > > >

> > > > , "Tanvir"

> > <ultimate@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Refractive indices of the gem stones may have something to

do

> > > with

> > > > the body... hm, I see ! :-D

> > > > >

> > > > > I have seen talking my chemistry teacher that all

gemstones

> > are

> > > > basically of same chemical composition, and hence the

efficacy

> > of

> > > > gemstones on a human body can not be proved scientifically.

> Most

> > > for

> > > > when it comes about different stones bringing different

kinds

> of

> > > > effects.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you have come across any scientific documents showing

gems

> > > > chemical composition affecting one's health, mind etc., self

> > would

> > > > be interested to read it. Please forward me or else do let

me

> > know

> > > > about the unavailability of the same, self would be waiting.

> > > > >

> > > > > However whatever things can be proved by chemical

> compositions

> > of

> > > > gems, it is indeed very difficult to prove their AREA OF

> > EFFICACY

> > > > for a particular person. As an example, a blue sapphire's

stone

> > > > giving me huge monetory gains when I wore it, a 5L+6L in 2H

> > > explains

> > > > this. Any gems effects and results very much behaves as per

the

> > > > position of the planet in the chart. it never gives an

effect

> on

> > an

> > > > area where it is not connected in the chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some say gems do not affect the fate. They can just make

you

> > more

> > > > attentive, more energetic that leads to success indirectly.

Bla

> > bla

> > > > bla. I have listened to this manytimes. But how come only

those

> > > > areas concerned in the chart be affected? Gems thus behave

in

> > > > a "systematic way". All remedies such as mantras, yajnas,

even

> > > > chairities behave in the same way. It is not that you do any

> > > > remedies and random things happen. But just those things

> > connected

> > > > with the planet in the charts get affected. This is a most

> > divine

> > > > prove of the Jyotish itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > One simple thing people really do not understand that what

is

> > you

> > > > LUCK is the result of the behaviour of people around you. So

> > > > whatever remedy you do (Mantra/ yajna /stones/charity) which

> > > > improves your luck / has an effect on your luck MUST change

> some

> > > > behaviour of people around you so that the change in your

luck

> > > comes

> > > > to be materialized. A mantra might bring a promotion but

there

> > your

> > > > upper level admin's free will is controlled to make that

> happen.

> > A

> > > > wrong stone making you hunt in an accident did control the

taxy

> > > > drivers free will to drive the taxy in a risky way, or to be

> out

> > of

> > > > mind for a while.

> > > > >

> > > > > People really fail to see how each of our behaviours,

> > including

> > > > the chart readers own behaviours are fully under control,

all

> > > behave

> > > > as per their karma, and that is their chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even if the gems JUST affect our body and mind, it DOES

> ending

> > up

> > > > affecting our fate as usual, also the fates of the people

> around

> > > us.

> > > > A gemstone making you feel tired or depressive make you deny

to

> > go

> > > > out with your lover for a walk, then indeed there is some

> > changes

> > > in

> > > > your lovers fate already ! Behaviour and fate walk together

and

> > > > affecting anyone would affect the other one, and thus the

> effect

> > of

> > > > remedies on our fate as well as behaviour is very perfectly

> > > > justified.

> > > > >

> > > > > An astrologer reads the chart, gives remedies, but that is

> > VERY

> > > > MUCH being under the influence of planets. Otherwise, what

the

> > > > idiots study "Charts of astrologers" ? If a chart of an

> > astrologer

> > > > shows such, then the person is actually forced to be an

> > astrologer

> > > > as per his destiny, what we could predict right when he was

> > born.

> > > > Same thing applies abt doctors, attorneys, police, army

> > officers,

> > > > govt officials, writers etc etc. We praise someone that he

has

> > > great

> > > > writing ability. And we also see that his chart says so. But

> > then,

> > > > we fail to adjust the two facts together and understand that

> how

> > > > planets ie the agents of karma forcing him to act in a

> > particular

> > > > way, developing a writing skill, being interested in

writings,

> > > doing

> > > > write ups etc etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > A simple logic. Let us do some elementary maths. I hope

since

> > we

> > > > are studying astrology we believe there is SOME predictive

> power

> > in

> > > > it. Then, if we say that astrology can predict 1%, then we

have

> > to

> > > > admit that we have 99% free will. If astro can predict 35%

of

> > it,

> > > we

> > > > only have 65% free will. As much accurate astrology becomes,

as

> > > much

> > > > subtle predictions it can make, and as much deep it goes,

and

> as

> > > > much small things it can say, and as less our free will

> becomes.

> > If

> > > > astrology can predict 99%, then we admit that we have only a

> > slight

> > > > (1%) free will.

> > > > >

> > > > > Once I was discussing my moms chart in a list, I just gave

> the

> > > > data and said that she married such month in such year. And

one

> > KP

> > > > student said, was this very close to the 15th of that month?

> > > > Actually, it was on 14th !!! So all the guardians of my

parents

> > > > fixing the marriage date become complete goobly gook robots

of

> > the

> > > > karma. SO WE ALL ARE.

> > > > >

> > > > > ONE MOST AMAZING FACT. Do not know if you will believe. In

my

> > > > relationship life, there were some times when my ex-GF a few

> > times

> > > > gave me some bad news on ONE PARTICULAR SUBJECT. Later, most

> > > > amazingly, I saw that all the dates she gave me those bad

news

> > were

> > > > either the 14th or the 15th of the months !!! I believe very

> > less

> > > in

> > > > neumerology, so I dag a bit more and saw, that on ALL THOSE

> > > MOMENTS,

> > > > Sun was right on the edge of the signs in transit. Most

times

> it

> > > was

> > > > in 29 deg30min to 29 deg 55 mins. A planet on the edge of a

> > rashi

> > > > becomes weak, a well known dictum, and this was proved in my

> > life

> > > > very much. Total 5/6 times she gave me bad news on the same

> > subject

> > > > and all happened with the same SUN-TRANSIT. Can it be a co-

> > > incident?

> > > > Duh, or was her free will controlled?

> > > > >

> > > > > Though the bad event happened earlier, but she gave me

that

> > bad

> > > > news as per my TR weakness. There are differences on the two

> > > events.

> > > > When it happens to her, her chart is to consult, since SHE

> > > > experiences it then. And when she TELLS ME THAT (I came to

know

> > it)

> > > > then MY CHART is to be consulted. So if you are abroad and

know

> > > > about your father's death after a weak, the day you heard

the

> > news

> > > > on has much to say. This is my experiences.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, Sun is my 12th lord and not astrology relates the

> > subject

> > > > of bad news with 12th lord in any way. But I have

strengthened

> > my

> > > > 12th lord with stones, mantra, colours and perfectly saw

that

> > the

> > > > subject gets affected as well. And this is a prime subject

for

> > my

> > > > futur researches. And here I again agree with Tatvam Ji

about

> > not

> > > > letting out own researches flash, for being rediculed.

> > > > >

> > > > > LET THE "WISE PPL" KNOW AND BELIEVE WHAT ARE THEY UP TO :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Tanvir.

> > > > >

> > > > > What can not happen, can never happen.

> > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine.

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

> > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem

solving

> > > > remedies

> > > > > Where relief and solutions are found

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Manoshi Chatterjee

> > > > >

> > > > > Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:50 AM

> > > > > Re:Rohiniji, Tanvirji, Manojji : Gemstones-

--

> > Inder

> > > > >

> > > > > "Gem's positive energy will give you mental peace,

mental

> > > > strenght,

> > > > > feeling of well being, correct thinking,etc etc.

However,

> it

> > > > would

> > > > > not have any affect on course of action of fortune or

any

> > > > physical

> > > > > correction in your fortune."

> > > > >

> > > > > You speak my mind Inder. Well the refractive indices of

the

> > gem

> > > > > stones may have something to do with the body when you

wear

> > > > them,

> > > > > but how can it change fate?....

> > > > >

> > > > > Manoshi

> > > > >

November 12, 2004

Dear Rohiniji,

I think cocktail of Astrology and Psychology is not a good mixture.

Cocktail of Philosphy and Astrology would rather be better drink.

Indian astrologers[pandit jis] give effective advice/counilling with

the mixture of Astrology and Religion. Some like neat drink even

without water.

Inder

, "Manoshi Chatterjee"

<khallopapa> wrote:

>

> Frankly it was a beautiful posting from you. Yes, I donot believe

in

> reincarnation nor do I believe in BLAMING, but yes, as I always

say,

> I have no idea, karmaphal exists or not, but how can we stop doing

> karma?...remedies...??? sorry, the day I get a good reason to

> believe in remedies, I will defilnitely let you know...

>

> Manoshi

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > If astrology is merely sooth-saying (psyching people up to brave

> the

> > rapids) then that brings in the element of psychological

> counseling

> > which most astrologers are not equipped or trained for. This

used

> to

> > be the way many western astrologers used to work. Many of them,

> mind

> > you had psychological backgrounds, so you see so much influence

of

> > psychological schools in tropical astrology (Jungian for

instance

> and

> > others).

> >

> > In order to be effective and substantially so, given the effort,

> time

> > and energy needs to be expended in properly learning jyotish, it

> > would have to do more than just morale-building, which by the

way

> > would vary from individual to individual. For the most part,

> > jyotishis generally shy away from psycho-babble and rightly so

> unlike

> > some other divinators. I think, astrology is a tool for

> experiencing

> > the fine but dynamic line between fate and free-will.

> >

> > Remedies form that window into the free-will portion of human

> > experience. There are times when to row hard and there are times

> to

> > pull out the oars and just flow with the flow. Some individuals

> are

> > able to sense that and do it intuitively, hence we see

successful

> > individuals who do so well without any divinatory or

astrological

> > advice. There are also the majority who might need such guidance

> from

> > time to time but it may not be make or break for them. Then

there

> are

> > those who have piled up a huge debt because of lost

opportunities

> (I

> > know you do not believe in reincarnation and so astrology can

only

> > have a very superficial meaning for you with the randomness of

> birth

> > thrown in since there is not continuity between lifetimes in

your

> > framework of reference). These latter need to get a perspective

on

> > things and a long-term view of things that are leading to their

> > distress and doubts. Once that is done, they can take charge

> instead

> > of blaming others or simply blaming, and delve into free-will.

> >

> > Since this is a message board, I should stop there as there is

no

> > point in discussing further and no room for full and continuous

> > discussion.

> >

> > Remedies represent many things, as I have said many times, I do

> not

> > included the casual prescription and improper or inadequate use

of

> > the easier forms of remedies (tantric mantric forms) as is often

> > witnessed, a bit dicey. However, as you have seen, my view is

not

> > shared by others.

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohini Ji,

> > >

> > > Well, believing in astrology doesnt mean it has anything to do

> with

> > > believing in gems/remedies. Yes, astrology can help people know

> > > their future, if predicted correctly and may be prepare

> themselves

> > > mentally, and accept the fact that what has to happen will and

> we

> > > have

> > > to accept what life offers us. Yes, I said SOME astrologers

> because

> > > those who prescribe gems etc claim themselves to be

> > > astrologers...they may

> > > not be...

> > >

> > > I hope this amswers your question...Can you tell me how do you

> think

> > > astrology may help people...otherwise?

> > >

> > > Manoshi

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Manoshi ji,

> > > >

> > > > I have been following your postings for some time.

> > > >

> > > > Leaving aside the conundrum of remedies (particulate and

> waves)

> > > and

> > > > their efficacy, do you personally really believe in

astrology?

> > > >

> > > > If yes, how do you think it can help regular, ordinary

people

> > > > (majority)?

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > , "Manoshi

Chatterjee"

> > > > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > A long story....eh? anyways, Tanvir, if it was so easy to

> > > change

> > > > > our fate with gems, at least a few of us, SOME who claim

to

> be

> > > good

> > > > > astrologers and know the remedies would all have got what

> they

> > > > > wanted...well i have no idea about if refractive indices

> can

> > > > effect

> > > > > our body or not (I dont wear any gem stone or any

> thing)...just

> > > an

> > > > > opinion...they may have...but on fate I have doubts.

> > > > >

> > > > > Manoshi

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Tanvir"

> > > <ultimate@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Refractive indices of the gem stones may have something

to

> do

> > > > with

> > > > > the body... hm, I see ! :-D

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have seen talking my chemistry teacher that all

> gemstones

> > > are

> > > > > basically of same chemical composition, and hence the

> efficacy

> > > of

> > > > > gemstones on a human body can not be proved

scientifically.

> > Most

> > > > for

> > > > > when it comes about different stones bringing different

> kinds

> > of

> > > > > effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you have come across any scientific documents showing

> gems

> > > > > chemical composition affecting one's health, mind etc.,

self

> > > would

> > > > > be interested to read it. Please forward me or else do let

> me

> > > know

> > > > > about the unavailability of the same, self would be

waiting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > However whatever things can be proved by chemical

> > compositions

> > > of

> > > > > gems, it is indeed very difficult to prove their AREA OF

> > > EFFICACY

> > > > > for a particular person. As an example, a blue sapphire's

> stone

> > > > > giving me huge monetory gains when I wore it, a 5L+6L in

2H

> > > > explains

> > > > > this. Any gems effects and results very much behaves as

per

> the

> > > > > position of the planet in the chart. it never gives an

> effect

> > on

> > > an

> > > > > area where it is not connected in the chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some say gems do not affect the fate. They can just make

> you

> > > more

> > > > > attentive, more energetic that leads to success

indirectly.

> Bla

> > > bla

> > > > > bla. I have listened to this manytimes. But how come only

> those

> > > > > areas concerned in the chart be affected? Gems thus behave

> in

> > > > > a "systematic way". All remedies such as mantras, yajnas,

> even

> > > > > chairities behave in the same way. It is not that you do

any

> > > > > remedies and random things happen. But just those things

> > > connected

> > > > > with the planet in the charts get affected. This is a most

> > > divine

> > > > > prove of the Jyotish itself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > One simple thing people really do not understand that

what

> is

> > > you

> > > > > LUCK is the result of the behaviour of people around you.

So

> > > > > whatever remedy you do (Mantra/ yajna /stones/charity)

which

> > > > > improves your luck / has an effect on your luck MUST

change

> > some

> > > > > behaviour of people around you so that the change in your

> luck

> > > > comes

> > > > > to be materialized. A mantra might bring a promotion but

> there

> > > your

> > > > > upper level admin's free will is controlled to make that

> > happen.

> > > A

> > > > > wrong stone making you hunt in an accident did control the

> taxy

> > > > > drivers free will to drive the taxy in a risky way, or to

be

> > out

> > > of

> > > > > mind for a while.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > People really fail to see how each of our behaviours,

> > > including

> > > > > the chart readers own behaviours are fully under control,

> all

> > > > behave

> > > > > as per their karma, and that is their chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even if the gems JUST affect our body and mind, it DOES

> > ending

> > > up

> > > > > affecting our fate as usual, also the fates of the people

> > around

> > > > us.

> > > > > A gemstone making you feel tired or depressive make you

deny

> to

> > > go

> > > > > out with your lover for a walk, then indeed there is some

> > > changes

> > > > in

> > > > > your lovers fate already ! Behaviour and fate walk

together

> and

> > > > > affecting anyone would affect the other one, and thus the

> > effect

> > > of

> > > > > remedies on our fate as well as behaviour is very

perfectly

> > > > > justified.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > An astrologer reads the chart, gives remedies, but that

is

> > > VERY

> > > > > MUCH being under the influence of planets. Otherwise, what

> the

> > > > > idiots study "Charts of astrologers" ? If a chart of an

> > > astrologer

> > > > > shows such, then the person is actually forced to be an

> > > astrologer

> > > > > as per his destiny, what we could predict right when he

was

> > > born.

> > > > > Same thing applies abt doctors, attorneys, police, army

> > > officers,

> > > > > govt officials, writers etc etc. We praise someone that he

> has

> > > > great

> > > > > writing ability. And we also see that his chart says so.

But

> > > then,

> > > > > we fail to adjust the two facts together and understand

that

> > how

> > > > > planets ie the agents of karma forcing him to act in a

> > > particular

> > > > > way, developing a writing skill, being interested in

> writings,

> > > > doing

> > > > > write ups etc etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A simple logic. Let us do some elementary maths. I hope

> since

> > > we

> > > > > are studying astrology we believe there is SOME predictive

> > power

> > > in

> > > > > it. Then, if we say that astrology can predict 1%, then we

> have

> > > to

> > > > > admit that we have 99% free will. If astro can predict 35%

> of

> > > it,

> > > > we

> > > > > only have 65% free will. As much accurate astrology

becomes,

> as

> > > > much

> > > > > subtle predictions it can make, and as much deep it goes,

> and

> > as

> > > > > much small things it can say, and as less our free will

> > becomes.

> > > If

> > > > > astrology can predict 99%, then we admit that we have only

a

> > > slight

> > > > > (1%) free will.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Once I was discussing my moms chart in a list, I just

gave

> > the

> > > > > data and said that she married such month in such year.

And

> one

> > > KP

> > > > > student said, was this very close to the 15th of that

month?

> > > > > Actually, it was on 14th !!! So all the guardians of my

> parents

> > > > > fixing the marriage date become complete goobly gook

robots

> of

> > > the

> > > > > karma. SO WE ALL ARE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ONE MOST AMAZING FACT. Do not know if you will believe.

In

> my

> > > > > relationship life, there were some times when my ex-GF a

few

> > > times

> > > > > gave me some bad news on ONE PARTICULAR SUBJECT. Later,

most

> > > > > amazingly, I saw that all the dates she gave me those bad

> news

> > > were

> > > > > either the 14th or the 15th of the months !!! I believe

very

> > > less

> > > > in

> > > > > neumerology, so I dag a bit more and saw, that on ALL

THOSE

> > > > MOMENTS,

> > > > > Sun was right on the edge of the signs in transit. Most

> times

> > it

> > > > was

> > > > > in 29 deg30min to 29 deg 55 mins. A planet on the edge of

a

> > > rashi

> > > > > becomes weak, a well known dictum, and this was proved in

my

> > > life

> > > > > very much. Total 5/6 times she gave me bad news on the

same

> > > subject

> > > > > and all happened with the same SUN-TRANSIT. Can it be a co-

> > > > incident?

> > > > > Duh, or was her free will controlled?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Though the bad event happened earlier, but she gave me

> that

> > > bad

> > > > > news as per my TR weakness. There are differences on the

two

> > > > events.

> > > > > When it happens to her, her chart is to consult, since SHE

> > > > > experiences it then. And when she TELLS ME THAT (I came to

> know

> > > it)

> > > > > then MY CHART is to be consulted. So if you are abroad and

> know

> > > > > about your father's death after a weak, the day you heard

> the

> > > news

> > > > > on has much to say. This is my experiences.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, Sun is my 12th lord and not astrology relates

the

> > > subject

> > > > > of bad news with 12th lord in any way. But I have

> strengthened

> > > my

> > > > > 12th lord with stones, mantra, colours and perfectly saw

> that

> > > the

> > > > > subject gets affected as well. And this is a prime subject

> for

> > > my

> > > > > futur researches. And here I again agree with Tatvam Ji

> about

> > > not

> > > > > letting out own researches flash, for being rediculed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LET THE "WISE PPL" KNOW AND BELIEVE WHAT ARE THEY UP

TO :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > Tanvir.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What can not happen, can never happen.

> > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology

(Jyotish)

> > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem

> solving

> > > > > remedies

> > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > Manoshi Chatterjee

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:50 AM

> > > > > > Re:Rohiniji, Tanvirji, Manojji :

Gemstones-

> --

> > > Inder

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Gem's positive energy will give you mental peace,

> mental

> > > > > strenght,

> > > > > > feeling of well being, correct thinking,etc etc.

> However,

> > it

> > > > > would

> > > > > > not have any affect on course of action of fortune or

> any

> > > > > physical

> > > > > > correction in your fortune."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You speak my mind Inder. Well the refractive indices

of

> the

> > > gem

> > > > > > stones may have something to do with the body when you

> wear

> > > > > them,

> > > > > > but how can it change fate?....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manoshi

> > > > > >

November 12, 2004

Karma (in its literal meaning) is the real remedy, Manoshi!

RR

, "Manoshi Chatterjee"

<khallopapa> wrote:

>

> Frankly it was a beautiful posting from you. Yes, I donot believe

in

> reincarnation nor do I believe in BLAMING, but yes, as I always

say,

> I have no idea, karmaphal exists or not, but how can we stop doing

> karma?...remedies...??? sorry, the day I get a good reason to

> believe in remedies, I will defilnitely let you know...

>

> Manoshi

>

> , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > If astrology is merely sooth-saying (psyching people up to brave

> the

> > rapids) then that brings in the element of psychological

> counseling

> > which most astrologers are not equipped or trained for. This used

> to

> > be the way many western astrologers used to work. Many of them,

> mind

> > you had psychological backgrounds, so you see so much influence

of

> > psychological schools in tropical astrology (Jungian for instance

> and

> > others).

> >

> > In order to be effective and substantially so, given the effort,

> time

> > and energy needs to be expended in properly learning jyotish, it

> > would have to do more than just morale-building, which by the way

> > would vary from individual to individual. For the most part,

> > jyotishis generally shy away from psycho-babble and rightly so

> unlike

> > some other divinators. I think, astrology is a tool for

> experiencing

> > the fine but dynamic line between fate and free-will.

> >

> > Remedies form that window into the free-will portion of human

> > experience. There are times when to row hard and there are times

> to

> > pull out the oars and just flow with the flow. Some individuals

> are

> > able to sense that and do it intuitively, hence we see successful

> > individuals who do so well without any divinatory or astrological

> > advice. There are also the majority who might need such guidance

> from

> > time to time but it may not be make or break for them. Then there

> are

> > those who have piled up a huge debt because of lost opportunities

> (I

> > know you do not believe in reincarnation and so astrology can

only

> > have a very superficial meaning for you with the randomness of

> birth

> > thrown in since there is not continuity between lifetimes in your

> > framework of reference). These latter need to get a perspective

on

> > things and a long-term view of things that are leading to their

> > distress and doubts. Once that is done, they can take charge

> instead

> > of blaming others or simply blaming, and delve into free-will.

> >

> > Since this is a message board, I should stop there as there is no

> > point in discussing further and no room for full and continuous

> > discussion.

> >

> > Remedies represent many things, as I have said many times, I do

> not

> > included the casual prescription and improper or inadequate use

of

> > the easier forms of remedies (tantric mantric forms) as is often

> > witnessed, a bit dicey. However, as you have seen, my view is not

> > shared by others.

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohini Ji,

> > >

> > > Well, believing in astrology doesnt mean it has anything to do

> with

> > > believing in gems/remedies. Yes, astrology can help people know

> > > their future, if predicted correctly and may be prepare

> themselves

> > > mentally, and accept the fact that what has to happen will and

> we

> > > have

> > > to accept what life offers us. Yes, I said SOME astrologers

> because

> > > those who prescribe gems etc claim themselves to be

> > > astrologers...they may

> > > not be...

> > >

> > > I hope this amswers your question...Can you tell me how do you

> think

> > > astrology may help people...otherwise?

> > >

> > > Manoshi

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Manoshi ji,

> > > >

> > > > I have been following your postings for some time.

> > > >

> > > > Leaving aside the conundrum of remedies (particulate and

> waves)

> > > and

> > > > their efficacy, do you personally really believe in astrology?

> > > >

> > > > If yes, how do you think it can help regular, ordinary people

> > > > (majority)?

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> > > > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > A long story....eh? anyways, Tanvir, if it was so easy to

> > > change

> > > > > our fate with gems, at least a few of us, SOME who claim to

> be

> > > good

> > > > > astrologers and know the remedies would all have got what

> they

> > > > > wanted...well i have no idea about if refractive indices

> can

> > > > effect

> > > > > our body or not (I dont wear any gem stone or any

> thing)...just

> > > an

> > > > > opinion...they may have...but on fate I have doubts.

> > > > >

> > > > > Manoshi

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Tanvir"

> > > <ultimate@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Refractive indices of the gem stones may have something

to

> do

> > > > with

> > > > > the body... hm, I see ! :-D

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have seen talking my chemistry teacher that all

> gemstones

> > > are

> > > > > basically of same chemical composition, and hence the

> efficacy

> > > of

> > > > > gemstones on a human body can not be proved scientifically.

> > Most

> > > > for

> > > > > when it comes about different stones bringing different

> kinds

> > of

> > > > > effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you have come across any scientific documents showing

> gems

> > > > > chemical composition affecting one's health, mind etc.,

self

> > > would

> > > > > be interested to read it. Please forward me or else do let

> me

> > > know

> > > > > about the unavailability of the same, self would be waiting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > However whatever things can be proved by chemical

> > compositions

> > > of

> > > > > gems, it is indeed very difficult to prove their AREA OF

> > > EFFICACY

> > > > > for a particular person. As an example, a blue sapphire's

> stone

> > > > > giving me huge monetory gains when I wore it, a 5L+6L in 2H

> > > > explains

> > > > > this. Any gems effects and results very much behaves as per

> the

> > > > > position of the planet in the chart. it never gives an

> effect

> > on

> > > an

> > > > > area where it is not connected in the chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some say gems do not affect the fate. They can just make

> you

> > > more

> > > > > attentive, more energetic that leads to success indirectly.

> Bla

> > > bla

> > > > > bla. I have listened to this manytimes. But how come only

> those

> > > > > areas concerned in the chart be affected? Gems thus behave

> in

> > > > > a "systematic way". All remedies such as mantras, yajnas,

> even

> > > > > chairities behave in the same way. It is not that you do

any

> > > > > remedies and random things happen. But just those things

> > > connected

> > > > > with the planet in the charts get affected. This is a most

> > > divine

> > > > > prove of the Jyotish itself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > One simple thing people really do not understand that

what

> is

> > > you

> > > > > LUCK is the result of the behaviour of people around you.

So

> > > > > whatever remedy you do (Mantra/ yajna /stones/charity)

which

> > > > > improves your luck / has an effect on your luck MUST change

> > some

> > > > > behaviour of people around you so that the change in your

> luck

> > > > comes

> > > > > to be materialized. A mantra might bring a promotion but

> there

> > > your

> > > > > upper level admin's free will is controlled to make that

> > happen.

> > > A

> > > > > wrong stone making you hunt in an accident did control the

> taxy

> > > > > drivers free will to drive the taxy in a risky way, or to

be

> > out

> > > of

> > > > > mind for a while.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > People really fail to see how each of our behaviours,

> > > including

> > > > > the chart readers own behaviours are fully under control,

> all

> > > > behave

> > > > > as per their karma, and that is their chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even if the gems JUST affect our body and mind, it DOES

> > ending

> > > up

> > > > > affecting our fate as usual, also the fates of the people

> > around

> > > > us.

> > > > > A gemstone making you feel tired or depressive make you

deny

> to

> > > go

> > > > > out with your lover for a walk, then indeed there is some

> > > changes

> > > > in

> > > > > your lovers fate already ! Behaviour and fate walk together

> and

> > > > > affecting anyone would affect the other one, and thus the

> > effect

> > > of

> > > > > remedies on our fate as well as behaviour is very perfectly

> > > > > justified.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > An astrologer reads the chart, gives remedies, but that

is

> > > VERY

> > > > > MUCH being under the influence of planets. Otherwise, what

> the

> > > > > idiots study "Charts of astrologers" ? If a chart of an

> > > astrologer

> > > > > shows such, then the person is actually forced to be an

> > > astrologer

> > > > > as per his destiny, what we could predict right when he was

> > > born.

> > > > > Same thing applies abt doctors, attorneys, police, army

> > > officers,

> > > > > govt officials, writers etc etc. We praise someone that he

> has

> > > > great

> > > > > writing ability. And we also see that his chart says so.

But

> > > then,

> > > > > we fail to adjust the two facts together and understand

that

> > how

> > > > > planets ie the agents of karma forcing him to act in a

> > > particular

> > > > > way, developing a writing skill, being interested in

> writings,

> > > > doing

> > > > > write ups etc etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A simple logic. Let us do some elementary maths. I hope

> since

> > > we

> > > > > are studying astrology we believe there is SOME predictive

> > power

> > > in

> > > > > it. Then, if we say that astrology can predict 1%, then we

> have

> > > to

> > > > > admit that we have 99% free will. If astro can predict 35%

> of

> > > it,

> > > > we

> > > > > only have 65% free will. As much accurate astrology

becomes,

> as

> > > > much

> > > > > subtle predictions it can make, and as much deep it goes,

> and

> > as

> > > > > much small things it can say, and as less our free will

> > becomes.

> > > If

> > > > > astrology can predict 99%, then we admit that we have only

a

> > > slight

> > > > > (1%) free will.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Once I was discussing my moms chart in a list, I just

gave

> > the

> > > > > data and said that she married such month in such year. And

> one

> > > KP

> > > > > student said, was this very close to the 15th of that

month?

> > > > > Actually, it was on 14th !!! So all the guardians of my

> parents

> > > > > fixing the marriage date become complete goobly gook robots

> of

> > > the

> > > > > karma. SO WE ALL ARE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ONE MOST AMAZING FACT. Do not know if you will believe.

In

> my

> > > > > relationship life, there were some times when my ex-GF a

few

> > > times

> > > > > gave me some bad news on ONE PARTICULAR SUBJECT. Later,

most

> > > > > amazingly, I saw that all the dates she gave me those bad

> news

> > > were

> > > > > either the 14th or the 15th of the months !!! I believe

very

> > > less

> > > > in

> > > > > neumerology, so I dag a bit more and saw, that on ALL THOSE

> > > > MOMENTS,

> > > > > Sun was right on the edge of the signs in transit. Most

> times

> > it

> > > > was

> > > > > in 29 deg30min to 29 deg 55 mins. A planet on the edge of a

> > > rashi

> > > > > becomes weak, a well known dictum, and this was proved in

my

> > > life

> > > > > very much. Total 5/6 times she gave me bad news on the same

> > > subject

> > > > > and all happened with the same SUN-TRANSIT. Can it be a co-

> > > > incident?

> > > > > Duh, or was her free will controlled?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Though the bad event happened earlier, but she gave me

> that

> > > bad

> > > > > news as per my TR weakness. There are differences on the

two

> > > > events.

> > > > > When it happens to her, her chart is to consult, since SHE

> > > > > experiences it then. And when she TELLS ME THAT (I came to

> know

> > > it)

> > > > > then MY CHART is to be consulted. So if you are abroad and

> know

> > > > > about your father's death after a weak, the day you heard

> the

> > > news

> > > > > on has much to say. This is my experiences.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, Sun is my 12th lord and not astrology relates the

> > > subject

> > > > > of bad news with 12th lord in any way. But I have

> strengthened

> > > my

> > > > > 12th lord with stones, mantra, colours and perfectly saw

> that

> > > the

> > > > > subject gets affected as well. And this is a prime subject

> for

> > > my

> > > > > futur researches. And here I again agree with Tatvam Ji

> about

> > > not

> > > > > letting out own researches flash, for being rediculed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LET THE "WISE PPL" KNOW AND BELIEVE WHAT ARE THEY UP TO :-

)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > Tanvir.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What can not happen, can never happen.

> > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology

(Jyotish)

> > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem

> solving

> > > > > remedies

> > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > Manoshi Chatterjee

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:50 AM

> > > > > > Re:Rohiniji, Tanvirji, Manojji :

Gemstones-

> --

> > > Inder

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Gem's positive energy will give you mental peace,

> mental

> > > > > strenght,

> > > > > > feeling of well being, correct thinking,etc etc.

> However,

> > it

> > > > > would

> > > > > > not have any affect on course of action of fortune or

> any

> > > > > physical

> > > > > > correction in your fortune."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You speak my mind Inder. Well the refractive indices of

> the

> > > gem

> > > > > > stones may have something to do with the body when you

> wear

> > > > > them,

> > > > > > but how can it change fate?....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manoshi

> > > > > >

November 12, 2004

then again, since astrology is supposed to describe the human

experience, psychology would remain a part of it, like planets and

attributes and personalities, signs and behaviour, etc. As would

philosophy, I suppose.

RR

, "Inder"

<indervohra2001> wrote:

>

> Dear Rohiniji,

> I think cocktail of Astrology and Psychology is not a good mixture.

> Cocktail of Philosphy and Astrology would rather be better drink.

> Indian astrologers[pandit jis] give effective advice/counilling

with

> the mixture of Astrology and Religion. Some like neat drink even

> without water.

> Inder

>

> , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> <khallopapa> wrote:

> >

> > Frankly it was a beautiful posting from you. Yes, I donot believe

> in

> > reincarnation nor do I believe in BLAMING, but yes, as I always

> say,

> > I have no idea, karmaphal exists or not, but how can we stop

doing

> > karma?...remedies...??? sorry, the day I get a good reason to

> > believe in remedies, I will defilnitely let you know...

> >

> > Manoshi

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > If astrology is merely sooth-saying (psyching people up to

brave

> > the

> > > rapids) then that brings in the element of psychological

> > counseling

> > > which most astrologers are not equipped or trained for. This

> used

> > to

> > > be the way many western astrologers used to work. Many of them,

> > mind

> > > you had psychological backgrounds, so you see so much influence

> of

> > > psychological schools in tropical astrology (Jungian for

> instance

> > and

> > > others).

> > >

> > > In order to be effective and substantially so, given the

effort,

> > time

> > > and energy needs to be expended in properly learning jyotish,

it

> > > would have to do more than just morale-building, which by the

> way

> > > would vary from individual to individual. For the most part,

> > > jyotishis generally shy away from psycho-babble and rightly so

> > unlike

> > > some other divinators. I think, astrology is a tool for

> > experiencing

> > > the fine but dynamic line between fate and free-will.

> > >

> > > Remedies form that window into the free-will portion of human

> > > experience. There are times when to row hard and there are

times

> > to

> > > pull out the oars and just flow with the flow. Some individuals

> > are

> > > able to sense that and do it intuitively, hence we see

> successful

> > > individuals who do so well without any divinatory or

> astrological

> > > advice. There are also the majority who might need such

guidance

> > from

> > > time to time but it may not be make or break for them. Then

> there

> > are

> > > those who have piled up a huge debt because of lost

> opportunities

> > (I

> > > know you do not believe in reincarnation and so astrology can

> only

> > > have a very superficial meaning for you with the randomness of

> > birth

> > > thrown in since there is not continuity between lifetimes in

> your

> > > framework of reference). These latter need to get a perspective

> on

> > > things and a long-term view of things that are leading to their

> > > distress and doubts. Once that is done, they can take charge

> > instead

> > > of blaming others or simply blaming, and delve into free-will.

> > >

> > > Since this is a message board, I should stop there as there is

> no

> > > point in discussing further and no room for full and continuous

> > > discussion.

> > >

> > > Remedies represent many things, as I have said many times, I do

> > not

> > > included the casual prescription and improper or inadequate use

> of

> > > the easier forms of remedies (tantric mantric forms) as is

often

> > > witnessed, a bit dicey. However, as you have seen, my view is

> not

> > > shared by others.

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee"

> > > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rohini Ji,

> > > >

> > > > Well, believing in astrology doesnt mean it has anything to

do

> > with

> > > > believing in gems/remedies. Yes, astrology can help people

know

> > > > their future, if predicted correctly and may be prepare

> > themselves

> > > > mentally, and accept the fact that what has to happen will

and

> > we

> > > > have

> > > > to accept what life offers us. Yes, I said SOME astrologers

> > because

> > > > those who prescribe gems etc claim themselves to be

> > > > astrologers...they may

> > > > not be...

> > > >

> > > > I hope this amswers your question...Can you tell me how do

you

> > think

> > > > astrology may help people...otherwise?

> > > >

> > > > Manoshi

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Manoshi ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been following your postings for some time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Leaving aside the conundrum of remedies (particulate and

> > waves)

> > > > and

> > > > > their efficacy, do you personally really believe in

> astrology?

> > > > >

> > > > > If yes, how do you think it can help regular, ordinary

> people

> > > > > (majority)?

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Manoshi

> Chatterjee"

> > > > > <khallopapa> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A long story....eh? anyways, Tanvir, if it was so easy

to

> > > > change

> > > > > > our fate with gems, at least a few of us, SOME who claim

> to

> > be

> > > > good

> > > > > > astrologers and know the remedies would all have got what

> > they

> > > > > > wanted...well i have no idea about if refractive indices

> > can

> > > > > effect

> > > > > > our body or not (I dont wear any gem stone or any

> > thing)...just

> > > > an

> > > > > > opinion...they may have...but on fate I have doubts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manoshi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "Tanvir"

> > > > <ultimate@s...>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Refractive indices of the gem stones may have something

> to

> > do

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the body... hm, I see ! :-D

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have seen talking my chemistry teacher that all

> > gemstones

> > > > are

> > > > > > basically of same chemical composition, and hence the

> > efficacy

> > > > of

> > > > > > gemstones on a human body can not be proved

> scientifically.

> > > Most

> > > > > for

> > > > > > when it comes about different stones bringing different

> > kinds

> > > of

> > > > > > effects.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you have come across any scientific documents

showing

> > gems

> > > > > > chemical composition affecting one's health, mind etc.,

> self

> > > > would

> > > > > > be interested to read it. Please forward me or else do

let

> > me

> > > > know

> > > > > > about the unavailability of the same, self would be

> waiting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > However whatever things can be proved by chemical

> > > compositions

> > > > of

> > > > > > gems, it is indeed very difficult to prove their AREA OF

> > > > EFFICACY

> > > > > > for a particular person. As an example, a blue sapphire's

> > stone

> > > > > > giving me huge monetory gains when I wore it, a 5L+6L in

> 2H

> > > > > explains

> > > > > > this. Any gems effects and results very much behaves as

> per

> > the

> > > > > > position of the planet in the chart. it never gives an

> > effect

> > > on

> > > > an

> > > > > > area where it is not connected in the chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some say gems do not affect the fate. They can just

make

> > you

> > > > more

> > > > > > attentive, more energetic that leads to success

> indirectly.

> > Bla

> > > > bla

> > > > > > bla. I have listened to this manytimes. But how come only

> > those

> > > > > > areas concerned in the chart be affected? Gems thus

behave

> > in

> > > > > > a "systematic way". All remedies such as mantras, yajnas,

> > even

> > > > > > chairities behave in the same way. It is not that you do

> any

> > > > > > remedies and random things happen. But just those things

> > > > connected

> > > > > > with the planet in the charts get affected. This is a

most

> > > > divine

> > > > > > prove of the Jyotish itself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > One simple thing people really do not understand that

> what

> > is

> > > > you

> > > > > > LUCK is the result of the behaviour of people around you.

> So

> > > > > > whatever remedy you do (Mantra/ yajna /stones/charity)

> which

> > > > > > improves your luck / has an effect on your luck MUST

> change

> > > some

> > > > > > behaviour of people around you so that the change in your

> > luck

> > > > > comes

> > > > > > to be materialized. A mantra might bring a promotion but

> > there

> > > > your

> > > > > > upper level admin's free will is controlled to make that

> > > happen.

> > > > A

> > > > > > wrong stone making you hunt in an accident did control

the

> > taxy

> > > > > > drivers free will to drive the taxy in a risky way, or to

> be

> > > out

> > > > of

> > > > > > mind for a while.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > People really fail to see how each of our behaviours,

> > > > including

> > > > > > the chart readers own behaviours are fully under control,

> > all

> > > > > behave

> > > > > > as per their karma, and that is their chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even if the gems JUST affect our body and mind, it DOES

> > > ending

> > > > up

> > > > > > affecting our fate as usual, also the fates of the people

> > > around

> > > > > us.

> > > > > > A gemstone making you feel tired or depressive make you

> deny

> > to

> > > > go

> > > > > > out with your lover for a walk, then indeed there is some

> > > > changes

> > > > > in

> > > > > > your lovers fate already ! Behaviour and fate walk

> together

> > and

> > > > > > affecting anyone would affect the other one, and thus the

> > > effect

> > > > of

> > > > > > remedies on our fate as well as behaviour is very

> perfectly

> > > > > > justified.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > An astrologer reads the chart, gives remedies, but that

> is

> > > > VERY

> > > > > > MUCH being under the influence of planets. Otherwise,

what

> > the

> > > > > > idiots study "Charts of astrologers" ? If a chart of an

> > > > astrologer

> > > > > > shows such, then the person is actually forced to be an

> > > > astrologer

> > > > > > as per his destiny, what we could predict right when he

> was

> > > > born.

> > > > > > Same thing applies abt doctors, attorneys, police, army

> > > > officers,

> > > > > > govt officials, writers etc etc. We praise someone that

he

> > has

> > > > > great

> > > > > > writing ability. And we also see that his chart says so.

> But

> > > > then,

> > > > > > we fail to adjust the two facts together and understand

> that

> > > how

> > > > > > planets ie the agents of karma forcing him to act in a

> > > > particular

> > > > > > way, developing a writing skill, being interested in

> > writings,

> > > > > doing

> > > > > > write ups etc etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A simple logic. Let us do some elementary maths. I hope

> > since

> > > > we

> > > > > > are studying astrology we believe there is SOME

predictive

> > > power

> > > > in

> > > > > > it. Then, if we say that astrology can predict 1%, then

we

> > have

> > > > to

> > > > > > admit that we have 99% free will. If astro can predict

35%

> > of

> > > > it,

> > > > > we

> > > > > > only have 65% free will. As much accurate astrology

> becomes,

> > as

> > > > > much

> > > > > > subtle predictions it can make, and as much deep it goes,

> > and

> > > as

> > > > > > much small things it can say, and as less our free will

> > > becomes.

> > > > If

> > > > > > astrology can predict 99%, then we admit that we have

only

> a

> > > > slight

> > > > > > (1%) free will.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Once I was discussing my moms chart in a list, I just

> gave

> > > the

> > > > > > data and said that she married such month in such year.

> And

> > one

> > > > KP

> > > > > > student said, was this very close to the 15th of that

> month?

> > > > > > Actually, it was on 14th !!! So all the guardians of my

> > parents

> > > > > > fixing the marriage date become complete goobly gook

> robots

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > karma. SO WE ALL ARE.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ONE MOST AMAZING FACT. Do not know if you will believe.

> In

> > my

> > > > > > relationship life, there were some times when my ex-GF a

> few

> > > > times

> > > > > > gave me some bad news on ONE PARTICULAR SUBJECT. Later,

> most

> > > > > > amazingly, I saw that all the dates she gave me those bad

> > news

> > > > were

> > > > > > either the 14th or the 15th of the months !!! I believe

> very

> > > > less

> > > > > in

> > > > > > neumerology, so I dag a bit more and saw, that on ALL

> THOSE

> > > > > MOMENTS,

> > > > > > Sun was right on the edge of the signs in transit. Most

> > times

> > > it

> > > > > was

> > > > > > in 29 deg30min to 29 deg 55 mins. A planet on the edge of

> a

> > > > rashi

> > > > > > becomes weak, a well known dictum, and this was proved in

> my

> > > > life

> > > > > > very much. Total 5/6 times she gave me bad news on the

> same

> > > > subject

> > > > > > and all happened with the same SUN-TRANSIT. Can it be a

co-

> > > > > incident?

> > > > > > Duh, or was her free will controlled?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Though the bad event happened earlier, but she gave me

> > that

> > > > bad

> > > > > > news as per my TR weakness. There are differences on the

> two

> > > > > events.

> > > > > > When it happens to her, her chart is to consult, since

SHE

> > > > > > experiences it then. And when she TELLS ME THAT (I came

to

> > know

> > > > it)

> > > > > > then MY CHART is to be consulted. So if you are abroad

and

> > know

> > > > > > about your father's death after a weak, the day you heard

> > the

> > > > news

> > > > > > on has much to say. This is my experiences.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, Sun is my 12th lord and not astrology relates

> the

> > > > subject

> > > > > > of bad news with 12th lord in any way. But I have

> > strengthened

> > > > my

> > > > > > 12th lord with stones, mantra, colours and perfectly saw

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > subject gets affected as well. And this is a prime

subject

> > for

> > > > my

> > > > > > futur researches. And here I again agree with Tatvam Ji

> > about

> > > > not

> > > > > > letting out own researches flash, for being rediculed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LET THE "WISE PPL" KNOW AND BELIEVE WHAT ARE THEY UP

> TO :-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > Tanvir.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What can not happen, can never happen.

> > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology

> (Jyotish)

> > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem

> > solving

> > > > > > remedies

> > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > Manoshi Chatterjee

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:50 AM

> > > > > > > Re:Rohiniji, Tanvirji, Manojji :

> Gemstones-

> > --

> > > > Inder

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Gem's positive energy will give you mental peace,

> > mental

> > > > > > strenght,

> > > > > > > feeling of well being, correct thinking,etc etc.

> > However,

> > > it

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > not have any affect on course of action of fortune or

> > any

> > > > > > physical

> > > > > > > correction in your fortune."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You speak my mind Inder. Well the refractive indices

> of

> > the

> > > > gem

> > > > > > > stones may have something to do with the body when

you

> > wear

> > > > > > them,

> > > > > > > but how can it change fate?....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Manoshi

> > > > > > >

November 25, 2004

Very good logics, enlightening...

:-D

What can not happen, can never happen.

Which is mine, is forever mine.

http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies

Where relief and solutions are found

-

Manoshi Chatterjee

Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:08 PM

Re: Gemstones, remedies, FREE WILL (RE: Current discussion

Dear Rohini Ji,

Well, believing in astrology doesnt mean it has anything to do with

believing in gems/remedies. Yes, astrology can help people know

their future, if predicted correctly and may be prepare themselves

mentally, and accept the fact that what has to happen will and we

have

to accept what life offers us. Yes, I said SOME astrologers because

those who prescribe gems etc claim themselves to be

astrologers...they may

not be...

I hope this amswers your question...Can you tell me how do you think

astrology may help people...otherwise?

Manoshi

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