2-V.Sreelatha, > Co-esistence of freedom & causality...., >Mark Kincaid...10/13

[Guest guest]

random and chaos, they say, if one moves far enough to include many

points leads to a position where the randomness of individual points

is lost in the wholeness and esthetic beauty of a geometric pattern.

 

Case in point:

 

the water molecules that form a snowflake!

 

Dear members, please excuse me for yet another copy and paste

irritant ;-)

 

T H E G R A N D P L A N

----- --------- -------

 

A darkened room on this cold winter day.

I look through the window, so bright so clear.

The tiniest of glimmer I barely begin to see

a speck of water gelling into a crystal of ice.

Uncommitted, undetermined, sans any goal it seems

as it hangs about for its friends to arrive...

ordinary, ugly, tiny blobs of frozen moisture

with no plans in mind yet everything falling into place

just as nature ordained;

they comply to the physics underlying chemistry.

Time passes by; suddenly I see –

meaningless blobs of frozen droplets no more

my eyes widen in wonderment as I awaken to ...

The beautiful heavenly snowflake !

 

Rohiniranjan © January 26 1994

 

 

 

, surya vishnubhotla

<surya_prakashv> wrote:

> Hello,

>

> I have not followed the entire thread so far .. so

> please ignore this mail if I am talking late ...

>

> Regards to the mail below ... the process of dealing

> the cards is entirely random .. in which case we will

> not have the game we desire to play ...

>

> If this was to be a limited example of what you

> intended then please ignore my above comments ..

>

> I like to think of life as a game of chess that we

> play with a grandmaster ... when we start we dont know

> the rules .. but we make the moves ... with every move

> we learn the rules better .. in the process we lose

> many games ... with every loss there is an associated

> process of forming strategies to succeed ... there are

> always elements of surprises ... we thik we have

> learnt all teh rules .. but eventually get stumped

> when a pawn becomes a queen on reaching the enemy post

> ... after many series of such learning/losing/re

> evaluations we finally win !! ... then the we become

> grandmasters ..

>

> I have had this view that the formation of the

> universe had a basic premise (albeit hidden one)

> however the process of evolution itself is random

> guided by this premise... the moment consciousness

> comes in contact of this randomness, it has the free

> will to choose it's process of learning through losses

> and march onwards towards winning ...

>

> Tantra/vedas every religion say that god and man are

> one ... but we objectively never understand this to be

> the truth ... there is a fear of all this being humbug

> .,.. but if it is true that there was a orignial

> premise for the formation of the universe then we need

> not fear ... because through all losses it's this

> premise that will guide us towards winning ...

>

> Every religion says, Love .. astrology says that the

> universe was not created to be in perfect harmony ..

> how much simpler can the message get "Across the

> parities .. just love" ...

>

> After reading some of the postings .. I feel really

> dwarfed ... this is my "one annas" worth !!

>

>

> --- Gili Mary <xapsarax@h...> wrote:

>

> > Dear All,

> > Simply put ... isn't it just that we are dealt the

> > cards but we have a

> > choice of how we play them?

> > Love,Gili

> >

> > >Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...>

> > >

> > ><>

> > > 2-V.Sreelatha, > Re: Co-esistence of

> > freedom &

> > >causality...., >Mark Kincaid...10/13

> > >Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:23:43 -0500

> > >

> > >Dear V. Sreelatha, & All:

> > >

> > >I think it's healthy to understand we have the

> > power and potential of

> > >'freedom' and even 'free will', but,....also

> > that....

> > >

> > >that ability to exercise that free will, can and

> > does get diminished, the

> > >more malefic influences are going on in our

> > charts...

> > >

> > >Therefore it's possible to in fact, increase our

> > ability to have more power

> > >of freedom of will.

> > >

> > >This means we can grow.

> > >

> > >The issue of free will and determinism.....looks

> > like an eternal arguement,

> > >and there are good answers on both side...

> > >

> > >However, I believe that in some strange and

> > mysterious way, the true answer

> > >is that 'both' do exist!

> > >

> > >I heard a famour guru, one time, being asked this

> > very question.

> > >

> > >"Which is it free will or fate?"

> > >

> > >And the answer was......"both"!

> > >

> > >The problem is the intellect considers this to be

> > an either/or question...

> > >

> > >But life has several, opposite and seemingly

> > opposed qualites,....like

> > >'Absolute' & 'Relative',...

> > >and even,...'spirit & matter'...

> > >

> > >This debate, 'spirit & matter', was a very popular

> > Philosophical discussion

> > >for centuries... but today, perhaps because more

> > and more people

> > >'experience'....pure spirit....

> > >

> > >this whole discussion has seemed to just go

> > away....

> > >

> > >Perhaps this free will & fate question and

> > quagmire, will go the same

> > >way....

> > >

> > >Perhaps in the same way that our nervous systems

> > are able to

> > >simultaneously,

> > >hold on to the ability ....to be 'active'....and to

> > be 'silent' at the same

> > >time....

> > >

> > >maybe in such a way, we'll come to understand that

> > freedom,...and

> > >causality...both co-exist!

> > >

> > >All I know for sure, is...that the more I develop

> > my inner side, more

> > >awareness, more consciousness,...more power of

> > Self...

> > >

> > >the more, true 'freedom' I feel!

> > >

> > >and the less 'bondage' to the outside, and to the

> > old habits that used to

> > >be

> > >there...

> > >

> > >Maybe that's the best statement yet, for

> > confirming,....the ability to grow

> > >in freedom!

> > >

> > >So, let's think of Astrology as including the

> > qualities of 'fate' of past

> > >karmas, or consequences, but still, the ability to

> > change, to grow,

> > >transform,....and even increase.....more

> > '.....freedom....'.

> > >

> > >

> > >Jai Guru!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >"V. Sreelatha" <venkatarama_sastry>

> > >

> > >Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:03:41 -0000

> > >

> > > Fwd: Re: [Transcend-Meditation]

> > 2-Partha:, > Re: Free will,

> > >Astrology & power of meditation, > Mark

> > Kincaid...10/11

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Dear Mark and Partha,

> > >

> > >It is a joy to read this thread! Such a liberating

> > idea, that we are

> > >100% free. Yes, indeed, we are not free from the

> > consequences of our

> > >own past actions, as per the karma theory .. but

> > this seems to

> > >contradict free will ONLY if you use that karma as

> > your starting

> > >point - you did not go as far back as you need to.

> > I am not saying

> > >this very well, let me try again.

> > >

> > >We are all so conditioned to believe that our karma

> > make us behave

> > >in a certain way, or give us good or bad results.

> > However, it is not

> > >a simple linear equation, that karma causes us to

> > do something, that

> > >a past action causes a reaction, which has to be

> > worked through.

> > >There was something else that came before that

> > action ... and THAT

> > >something was your free will to perform that

> > action. Once you

> > >exercise that free will, and perform a certain

> > action, the outcome

> > >is a given in many cases - whining that we can't

> > exercise our free

> > >will to escape the outcome, is not quite fair. (I

> > am oversimplifying

> > >to make a point.... in reality free still exists,

> > since you always

> > >have a choice as to your future actions.) It's like

> > throwing a ball

> > >up in the air, you have the free will to throw it

> > up if you want,

> > >but the fact remains that it will come down because

> > of gravity,

> > >because THAT was the reaction that you set in

> > motion with your

> > >action done with 100% free will.

> > >

> > >Astrology is totally compatible with free will.

> > Astrology shows the

> > >what, when, where, how, why, who etc etc of things

> > that are meant to

> > >happen. The true "cause" of the happennings though,

> > are the actions

> > >that you yourself set in motion, either knowingly

> > or unknowingly,

> > >it's not a planet somewhere. When I read statements

> > such as Saturn

> > >is causing sorrow, I always think of a really

> > simple analogy. Say a

> > >murderer is put in jail, is it really the fault of

> > the cop that

> > >caught him, the judge that sentenced him, the

> > prison warden that

> > >prevents him from escaping, or the jail for holding

> > him? These are

> > >the roles that the planets / houses / rasis /

> > dispositers play. The

> > >true cause is the murder that this criminal

> > committed, when he

> > >exercised his "free will", and that is what set the

> > rest of the

> > >events in motion.

> > >

> > >All these, strictly, MHO as always.

> > >Venkatarama Sreelatha

> > >

> > >, partha

> > sarathy

> > ><partvinu5> wrote:

> >

> === message truncated ===

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