2-V.Sreelatha, > Co-esistence of freedom & causality...., >Mark Kincaid...10/13

[Guest guest]

Yes but is it really a cardgame, or so perceived by most? LIke in

Alice in Wonderland?

 

RR

 

, "Gili Mary" <xapsarax@h...>

wrote:

> Dear All,

> Simply put ... isn't it just that we are dealt the cards but we

have a

> choice of how we play them?

> Love,Gili

>

> >Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...>

> >

> ><>

> > 2-V.Sreelatha, > Re: Co-esistence of freedom &

> >causality...., >Mark Kincaid...10/13

> >Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:23:43 -0500

> >

> >Dear V. Sreelatha, & All:

> >

> >I think it's healthy to understand we have the power and potential

of

> >'freedom' and even 'free will', but,....also that....

> >

> >that ability to exercise that free will, can and does get

diminished, the

> >more malefic influences are going on in our charts...

> >

> >Therefore it's possible to in fact, increase our ability to have

more power

> >of freedom of will.

> >

> >This means we can grow.

> >

> >The issue of free will and determinism.....looks like an eternal

arguement,

> >and there are good answers on both side...

> >

> >However, I believe that in some strange and mysterious way, the

true answer

> >is that 'both' do exist!

> >

> >I heard a famour guru, one time, being asked this very question.

> >

> >"Which is it free will or fate?"

> >

> >And the answer was......"both"!

> >

> >The problem is the intellect considers this to be an either/or

question...

> >

> >But life has several, opposite and seemingly opposed

qualites,....like

> >'Absolute' & 'Relative',...

> >and even,...'spirit & matter'...

> >

> >This debate, 'spirit & matter', was a very popular Philosophical

discussion

> >for centuries... but today, perhaps because more and more people

> >'experience'....pure spirit....

> >

> >this whole discussion has seemed to just go away....

> >

> >Perhaps this free will & fate question and quagmire, will go the

same

> >way....

> >

> >Perhaps in the same way that our nervous systems are able to

> >simultaneously,

> >hold on to the ability ....to be 'active'....and to be 'silent' at

the same

> >time....

> >

> >maybe in such a way, we'll come to understand that freedom,...and

> >causality...both co-exist!

> >

> >All I know for sure, is...that the more I develop my inner side,

more

> >awareness, more consciousness,...more power of Self...

> >

> >the more, true 'freedom' I feel!

> >

> >and the less 'bondage' to the outside, and to the old habits that

used to

> >be

> >there...

> >

> >Maybe that's the best statement yet, for confirming,....the

ability to grow

> >in freedom!

> >

> >So, let's think of Astrology as including the qualities of 'fate'

of past

> >karmas, or consequences, but still, the ability to change, to grow,

> >transform,....and even increase.....more '.....freedom....'.

> >

> >

> >Jai Guru!

> >

> >

> >

> >Mark Kincaid

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >"V. Sreelatha" <venkatarama_sastry>

> >

> >Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:03:41 -0000

> >

> > Fwd: Re: [Transcend-Meditation] 2-Partha:, > Re:

Free will,

> >Astrology & power of meditation, > Mark Kincaid...10/11

> >

> >

> >

> >Dear Mark and Partha,

> >

> >It is a joy to read this thread! Such a liberating idea, that we

are

> >100% free. Yes, indeed, we are not free from the consequences of

our

> >own past actions, as per the karma theory .. but this seems to

> >contradict free will ONLY if you use that karma as your starting

> >point - you did not go as far back as you need to. I am not saying

> >this very well, let me try again.

> >

> >We are all so conditioned to believe that our karma make us behave

> >in a certain way, or give us good or bad results. However, it is

not

> >a simple linear equation, that karma causes us to do something,

that

> >a past action causes a reaction, which has to be worked through.

> >There was something else that came before that action ... and THAT

> >something was your free will to perform that action. Once you

> >exercise that free will, and perform a certain action, the outcome

> >is a given in many cases - whining that we can't exercise our free

> >will to escape the outcome, is not quite fair. (I am

oversimplifying

> >to make a point.... in reality free still exists, since you always

> >have a choice as to your future actions.) It's like throwing a ball

> >up in the air, you have the free will to throw it up if you want,

> >but the fact remains that it will come down because of gravity,

> >because THAT was the reaction that you set in motion with your

> >action done with 100% free will.

> >

> >Astrology is totally compatible with free will. Astrology shows the

> >what, when, where, how, why, who etc etc of things that are meant

to

> >happen. The true "cause" of the happennings though, are the actions

> >that you yourself set in motion, either knowingly or unknowingly,

> >it's not a planet somewhere. When I read statements such as Saturn

> >is causing sorrow, I always think of a really simple analogy. Say a

> >murderer is put in jail, is it really the fault of the cop that

> >caught him, the judge that sentenced him, the prison warden that

> >prevents him from escaping, or the jail for holding him? These are

> >the roles that the planets / houses / rasis / dispositers play. The

> >true cause is the murder that this criminal committed, when he

> >exercised his "free will", and that is what set the rest of the

> >events in motion.

> >

> >All these, strictly, MHO as always.

> >Venkatarama Sreelatha

> >

> >, partha sarathy

> ><partvinu5> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Mark

> > >

> > > Well said.

> > >

> > > I have been arguing for every person having 100% free will case.

> >The reason is quite simple, that when free will is called "FREE

> >will" it cannot be in percentages. But i have seen some discussions

> >where people talk of a percentaged free will.

> > >

> > > What i can agree to is the fact that we are not free from the

> >consequences of our past actions. This is where our karma comes in.

> >But this can never prove the fact that we can exercise our free

> >will. Past actions are always asserting themselves on our current

> >decisions, but can it prove that we are basically free souls. The

> >souls that are full of love, joy and creativity. Jyotish definitely

> >gives us enough clues on the consequneces of our past actions. The

> >various techniques such as dasas and progressions are nothing but

> >projections of the same.

> > >

> > > I have read that people talk of a malefic rahu dasa, and a bad

> >sani dasa etc.

> > > Let me clear the point here, because even i am in rahu dasa

since

> >last 10 years. yes rahu dasa has been a roller coaster ride, but

> >then i also became spiritual. The setbacks made me "go INWARD"

which

> >i wouldnot have done had everything been a jolly good ride.

> > > Rahu and sani are planets that force us to look inward, look at

> >our souls, the desires of the soul. They make us ponder at the

> >meaning of life, at our frailities, and our greatness. Every soul

is

> >a spark of divine life, and all our experiences are nothing but the

> >various manifestations of the divine play. They make us remember

> >more of who we are really.

> > > Rahu and saturn make us so restricted, that we truly learn what

> >freedom is.

> > > For instance i lived for a year at my tyrannical uncle's place,

> >and i was very much limited in all my actions. I couldnot take

> >decisions that made me happy. Every moment was a struggle. I worked

> >in a newspaper company, and people abused and shouted at me.

> > > I never feel bad about them, i feel that those restrictive

> >conditons, made me realise that we all long for freedom. And we are

> >basically experiencing restriction, to learn that we are free.

> > > We experience misery to feel that we are "JOY"

> > > We experience sadness to learn that we are "Happiness"

> > > We experience crippling conditions to learn that we

> >are "Invincibles"

> > > We experience helplessness to learn that we are " Creative

> >machines".

> > >

> > > All these are attributes of soul, and by experiencing what it is

> >not, it remembers more of what it IS, I can know what is day, when

i

> >see the night. I can appreciate Sweetness, only when i have tasted

> >the bitter.

> > > That is why we are in earth, the plane of dualities.

> > > best wishes

> > > partha

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > Dear Partha:

> > >

> > > This is another reason why I'm excited about this 'meditation' &

> >Astrology group, because without powerful emphasis on remedial

> >measures, the whole purpose of Astrology is lost.

> > >

> > > I know so many people who are studying Jyotish, but only

remaining

> >in the theoretical, cerebral part.

> > >

> > > And yes free will is a strong, vital, indespensible part of

life.

> > >

> > > But, free will isn't a contradiction in Jyotish/Astrology, free

> >will is a part of it.

> > >

> > > In the same way that 'pre-determinism' and causality is a part

of

> >life, being dynamic, asserting oneself, or exercising one's will,

to

> >evolve is too.!

> > >

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > partha sarathy <partvinu5>

> > > Transcend-Meditation

> > > Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:34:04 -0700 (PDT)

> > > Transcend-Meditation

> > > Re: [Transcend-Meditation] 2-Partha:, > Re: Jupiter &

> >Saturn, > Mark Kincaid...10/11

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Mark

> > >

> > > Thank you for the kind words. Without proper sadhana and yoga,

the

> >understanding of metaphysical aspects of universe remains

> >inaccessible.

> > >

> > > I did jyotish for 9 years, and i do JYOTISH now after the last

> >years spiritual transformation.

> > > I started meditating last year, went for past life regression,

saw

> >some 200 past lives, i read books like Conversations with GOd. So

> >many things have become clear now. For me Jyotish is now a tool to

> >assess the potentialities of a person and the way he can progress

in

> >life. Free will very much comes into picture, and i see people

> >having the same chart as me never ever going into meditation of

even

> >astrology. I guess free will is something which is not pre

> >determined and is one of the black holes for Jyotish

> > > best wishes

> > > partha

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Partha:

> > >

> > > Yes, I think you're right. When I, too learned to look at

nature

> >or spirituality, in terms of both of these Jupiter &

> >Saturn 'qualities', I started getting a long much better in life...

> > >

> > > This is one of so many reasons why I think Jyotish is a

wonderful

> >compliment to meditation and yoga for example.

> > >

> > > I've done the charts of so many people, 'on the path', who not

> >understanding either the Jupiter's or Saturn's in their

> >charts,...they still continued to suffer, in ways....

> > >

> > > that their meditation, or sadhana, should have cancelled out...

> > >

> > > Now I know that Jyotish is a wonderful compliment to

meditation....

> > >

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ps...thanks for your thoughts and I look forward to many more

> >wonderful discussions, together...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

> >

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