Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Dear Surya, allow me to try to answer your questions. > My question is (I asked in one of my earlier mails) .. > how come Arjuna got Gita upadesa and yet went on to > make silly vows while lamenting for his son Abhimanu's > death? Self-realization does not turn a human being into some emotionless robot. Every father loves his son and will mourn if he loses him. A devotee of the Lord is no feeling-less being, who due to self-realization does not feel emotions or compassion anymore. > Why could he not realise that the death of Abhimanu was his own karma and he should > not nurse a grudge? That he mourned about the death of his son does not mean he had no knowledge on karma and life after death. Sri Ramachandra Bhagawan Himself mourned about His wife Sita! Does that mean that God Himself was under illusion, showing feelings for His beloved fellows? > Why was it that Krishna did not protectAbhimanu becasue he was under the > protection of the lord? All this story about the pandavas was a Krishna leela. None of the pandavas was born with karma! They all had descended from the spiritual world to participate in Krishna's leela, to give us fallen souls an example for life and the chance to do spiritual advancement. Abhimanyu died a glorious death of a kshatrya while fighting! He fought against the best of the best, and several opponents in one time! Those single princes that fought against Abhimanyu were able to kill entire troops with their only hands! But to fight Abhimanyu, who actually still was a kid, they had to do the greatest cowardice a kshatrya could do. They attacked him together, chopped off his hand, by a mean trick, and when he still could fight on with his left hand, they killed him cowardly and regardless! This story shows us that he could be never be conquered, and that a devotee of the Lord can make miracles, which even centuries after people still speak about. Abhimanyu wasn't afraid of death, and wanted to show that he was an honorable kshatrya and devotee of the Lord. He had never lost the protection of the Lord! >The issue is that Krishna himself came down to clean >te earth of the power hungry Kshatriya race .. it >included his own dynasty .. and by the time Krishna >left the planet there were only feeble kings left on >the planet ... This has nothing to do with His dynasty. He came to establish religion, to protect the people and His devotees and free them from unscrupulous rulers God, no matter in which form He incarnates, always does this to the benefit of all humanity, so we receive a chance to liberate ourselves from this material world of suffering. > The issue then is not that God will put u above karma if you go to his protection .. the > issue is if you have firm faith in him he will take help you sail through ur karma and > eventually take u higher ! If we surrender to God, with faith, He will take away all the karma from us, which might be in our way of spiritual advancement. He will guide and protect us, so we will not get off that path, no matter what comes. This might take one lifetime, or several, God doesn't forget what we did on our spiritual path. We have to walk that path all by ourselves, but if we are honest and sincere, He will bless us so we will be able to go for it. This is His protection, he promises in the Geeta, that His devotee will never fall, also once reaching the goal, His abode, we will never fall back into this material existence. Only by God's mercy and the mercy of guru one is able to reach this goal. Even a mystic yogi can only by the mercy of the supersoul, paramatma, reach the spiritual goal, no other way. > According to yoga, neither a jnani nor a bhakt can > surpass karma .. however a yogi can .. and a yogi is > one who has renounced attachment (not possession) ... > Just sharing I think you misunderstood something here – in none of the vedic scriptures I know, may it be Siddhanta, Vedanta, siva purana or whatsoever, it says that with jnana yoga or bhakti yoga one cannot reach the spiritual goal, liberation, etc. and that this goal can only achieved by yoga. What anyway do you mean with merely `yoga'? Do you think about ashtanga yoga? Yoga merely is a process, somebody who practices jnana yoga, also can be called a yogi, or for the bhakta, he is a bhakti yogi. Krishna in Bhagvat Geeta tells the processes with which the spiritual abode can be reached, and He for good reasons recommends bhakti yoga first, and then also jnana yoga – which you try to put down here. The following of a process does not determine alone if one will reach the spiritual abode, it is our consciousness which in the end counts. All the processes are meant to lift up our consciousness, so we can reach the spiritual goal. > and a yogi is one who has renounced attachment (not possession) ... A jnana yogi or bhakti yogi who renounces material attachments is a real yogi, as Krishna states in the Bhagvat Geeta, which has nothing to do with these two processes jnana or bhakti yoga, but things here are about the consciousness, detachment from material desires, which is the goal of any yoga and kind of yogi. Kind regards, Shad , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Shad, > > My question is (I asked in one of my earlier mails) .. > how come Arjuna got Gita upadesa and yet went on to > make silly vows while lamenting for his son Abhimanu's > death? Why could he not realise that the death of > Abhimanu was his own karma and he should not nurse a > grudge? Why was it that Krishna did not protect > Abhimanu becasue he was under the protection of the > lord? > > The issue is that Krishna himself came down to clean > the earth of the power hungry Kshatriya race .. it > included his own dynasty .. and by the time Krishna > left the planet there were only feeble kings left on > the planet ... > > The issue then is not that God will put u above karma > if you go to his protection .. the issue is if you > have firm faith in him he will take help you sail > through ur karma and eventually take u higher ! > > According to yoga, neither a jnani nor a bhakt can > surpass karma .. however a yogi can .. and a yogi is > one who has renounced attachment (not possession) ... > > Just sharing > > > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > > Dear Mark, > > > > Well, life isn't fair, but God is : ) > > > > I can guarantee you the teachings of karma are real! > > And believe me, > > I am no blind believer. Rather a scientific thinker, > > even an > > inventor on the field of quantum physics - blind > > belief would be > > abstract for me. > > > > The Bhagvat Geeta in my eyes is one of the best > > books, with which > > one can study and understand the law of karma and > > its interaction > > with the soul. But most important is that you are > > able to apply and > > realize this knowledge in your life here and now. > > Realized knowledge > > about karma is true knowledge. > > We may theoretically and logically understand > > things, but we really > > know things only when we have tried it and realized > > it in our very > > lives. > > > > The teachings of the Bhagvat Geeta are no myth, > > poetry or whatsoever > > universities and scientists call it – the Geeta is > > the jewel of > > science! > > > > The Lord promises Arjuna: `o Arjuna, tell everyone > > that my devotee > > will never fall, he eternally is under my > > protection.' > > Once we take shelter in the protection of the Lord, > > He guides our > > lives. No demi-Gods, karma, planets can harm us as > > we are protected! > > > > If we honestly worship God, chant His names and try > > to follow His > > teachings, living our lives according to those, the > > Lord will remove > > our karma, which might harm us on our way to > > self-realization. > > > > In Vedanta and Siddhanta is says: `The soul, our > > true self, cannot > > be cut by weapons, burned by fire, moisten it with > > water or dried by > > wind.' > > > > Krishna on the battlefield spoke to Arjuna, who was > > afraid to lose > > his relatives, beloved family and friends in the > > war: > > > > BG 2.12 > > na tv evaham jatu nasam > > na tvam neme janadhipah > > na caiva na bhavisyamah > > sarve vayam atah param > > > > 'Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor > > you, nor all these > > kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to > > be.' > > > > The Vedas teach us that the law of karma is made out > > of dualities, > > which will never make us happy and that we should > > try to free > > ourselves from karma and perform transcendental > > activities, which do > > not cause karmic reactions. Acting in akarma. Good > > karma might bring > > lot of material luck, but where there is material > > luck there also is > > material suffering. > > > > These two are married, such as husband and wife, one > > cannot separate > > them. Where there is one of them, you will find the > > other one. > > > > The true happiness and luck are deep in us. The soul > > is eternal, ful > > of knowledge and bliss. We have to free our true > > self, the soul, > > from karma, than our real nature and happiness will > > shop up, without > > any dualities. And no karma, bad karmic planetary > > positions can > > affect, demigods or demons can hurt or harm us. > > > > So, dear Mark, you are right, if no we act properly, > > in > > transcendental manner to the benefit to our soul and > > our God, no one > > can really hurt us, and we are really free, and will > > never again > > experience suffering or misfortune. Because God > > Himself will protect > > us, as He promises in the Bhagvat Geeta. > > > > Kind regards, > > Shad > > > > > > > > Dear Shad: > > > > I agree with your words very much. > > > > I only want to add one thing. > > > > And that is, if it's true that karma or our > > consequences are what > > we're > > truely experiencing, > > then, not only does that help us,.... > > > > from not blaming others for our situations.... > > > > > > If karma is true, and all we experience is due to > > our own > > actions,... from > > somewhere in the past.... > > > > then,.... if karma is true,....then the other side > > to this > > coin,...is that > > no one stands in our way! > > > > This means that no one can really hurt us, and we > > are really free to > > right > > now, beginning a new action, which will be our next > > futures.... > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Mark Kincaid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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