2-Shad & All, > Mark Kincaid....9/26, re. liberation from karma...&sciene of 'karma'

[Guest guest]

Dear Shad & All:

 

What amazes me is that modern science may have discovered 'karma', for

atoms,

"for every action, there's an equal an opposite, re-action..."

 

is a Physics law, now, but somehow they just haven't been able to make a

case for finding this same law in Psychology, or human life.

 

This is encouraging however, but I think Jyotish can go a long way at

helping bringing out this deep principle of 'causality', for other areas of

life, too.

 

 

Mark K.

 

 

 

 

"Shad" <waterpowers

 

Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:38:14 -0000

 

liberation from karma... -> Mark K. - Sep 26, 2004

 

 

Dear Mark,

 

Well, life isn't fair, but God is : )

 

I can guarantee you the teachings of karma are real! And believe me,

I am no blind believer. Rather a scientific thinker, even an

inventor on the field of quantum physics - blind belief would be

abstract for me.

 

The Bhagvat Geeta in my eyes is one of the best books, with which

one can study and understand the law of karma and its interaction

with the soul. But most important is that you are able to apply and

realize this knowledge in your life here and now. Realized knowledge

about karma is true knowledge.

We may theoretically and logically understand things, but we really

know things only when we have tried it and realized it in our very

lives.

 

The teachings of the Bhagvat Geeta are no myth, poetry or whatsoever

universities and scientists call it – the Geeta is the jewel of

science!

 

The Lord promises Arjuna: `o Arjuna, tell everyone that my devotee

will never fall, he eternally is under my protection.'

Once we take shelter in the protection of the Lord, He guides our

lives. No demi-Gods, karma, planets can harm us as we are protected!

 

If we honestly worship God, chant His names and try to follow His

teachings, living our lives according to those, the Lord will remove

our karma, which might harm us on our way to self-realization.

 

In Vedanta and Siddhanta is says: `The soul, our true self, cannot

be cut by weapons, burned by fire, moisten it with water or dried by

wind.'

 

Krishna on the battlefield spoke to Arjuna, who was afraid to lose

his relatives, beloved family and friends in the war:

 

BG 2.12

na tv evaham jatu nasam

na tvam neme janadhipah

na caiva na bhavisyamah

sarve vayam atah param

 

'Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these

kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.'

 

The Vedas teach us that the law of karma is made out of dualities,

which will never make us happy and that we should try to free

ourselves from karma and perform transcendental activities, which do

not cause karmic reactions. Acting in akarma. Good karma might bring

lot of material luck, but where there is material luck there also is

material suffering.

 

These two are married, such as husband and wife, one cannot separate

them. Where there is one of them, you will find the other one.

 

The true happiness and luck are deep in us. The soul is eternal, ful

of knowledge and bliss. We have to free our true self, the soul,

from karma, than our real nature and happiness will shop up, without

any dualities. And no karma, bad karmic planetary positions can

affect, demigods or demons can hurt or harm us.

 

So, dear Mark, you are right, if no we act properly, in

transcendental manner to the benefit to our soul and our God, no one

can really hurt us, and we are really free, and will never again

experience suffering or misfortune. Because God Himself will protect

us, as He promises in the Bhagvat Geeta.

 

Kind regards,

Shad

 

 

 

Dear Shad:

 

I agree with your words very much.

 

I only want to add one thing.

 

And that is, if it's true that karma or our consequences are what

we're

truely experiencing,

then, not only does that help us,....

 

from not blaming others for our situations....

 

 

If karma is true, and all we experience is due to our own

actions,... from

somewhere in the past....

 

then,.... if karma is true,....then the other side to this

coin,...is that

no one stands in our way!

 

This means that no one can really hurt us, and we are really free to

right

now, beginning a new action, which will be our next futures....

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

 

~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

 

 

Sponsor

 

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

<?subject=Un>

 

Terms of Service

<> .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark, and all,

 

modern science rather occupies with symptoms than causes. Sciences

bases on gross sensual perception, which is quiet limited, since our

senses are conditioned.

 

To give you a short example: in school you learned that vapor from

boiling water is lighter than air and due to this rises up. They

came to this conclusion by their sensual perception and logical

thinking. And this is a relative truth, which is wrong.

 

Now here a nice article from NASA and experiments in zero gravity

which shows they were wrong...

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast07sep_2.htm

 

Additional we must see that sensual perception is influenced by

karma. Our karmic impressions in our psychological body 'color' our

external sensual perception. Two people can look at the same woman,

one can say she is beautiful and the other one will say she is an

ugly wall-flower.

 

What is the truth?

 

Science does not accept the existence of the soul, as they only see

the flesh, bones and DNA... approximately every seven years the

scientific theories change and are re-newed.

Jyotish in opposite sees the soul and spiritual and does not occupy

with symptoms, but causes. Jyotish are the eyes of the vedas and

true science, which will never change, as the speculations of so-

called science do.

 

Best regards,

Shad

 

 

 

, Mark Kincaid

<m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> Dear Shad & All:

>

> What amazes me is that modern science may have discovered 'karma',

for

> atoms,

> "for every action, there's an equal an opposite, re-action..."

>

> is a Physics law, now, but somehow they just haven't been able to

make a

> case for finding this same law in Psychology, or human life.

>

> This is encouraging however, but I think Jyotish can go a long way

at

> helping bringing out this deep principle of 'causality', for other

areas of

> life, too.

>

>

> Mark K.

>

>

>

>

> "Shad" <waterpowers>

>

> Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:38:14 -0000

>

> liberation from karma... -> Mark K. - Sep 26, 2004

>

>

> Dear Mark,

>

> Well, life isn't fair, but God is : )

>

> I can guarantee you the teachings of karma are real! And believe

me,

> I am no blind believer. Rather a scientific thinker, even an

> inventor on the field of quantum physics - blind belief would be

> abstract for me.

>

> The Bhagvat Geeta in my eyes is one of the best books, with which

> one can study and understand the law of karma and its interaction

> with the soul. But most important is that you are able to apply and

> realize this knowledge in your life here and now. Realized

knowledge

> about karma is true knowledge.

> We may theoretically and logically understand things, but we really

> know things only when we have tried it and realized it in our very

> lives.

>

> The teachings of the Bhagvat Geeta are no myth, poetry or

whatsoever

> universities and scientists call it – the Geeta is the jewel of

> science!

>

> The Lord promises Arjuna: `o Arjuna, tell everyone that my devotee

> will never fall, he eternally is under my protection.'

> Once we take shelter in the protection of the Lord, He guides our

> lives. No demi-Gods, karma, planets can harm us as we are

protected!

>

> If we honestly worship God, chant His names and try to follow His

> teachings, living our lives according to those, the Lord will

remove

> our karma, which might harm us on our way to self-realization.

>

> In Vedanta and Siddhanta is says: `The soul, our true self, cannot

> be cut by weapons, burned by fire, moisten it with water or dried

by

> wind.'

>

> Krishna on the battlefield spoke to Arjuna, who was afraid to lose

> his relatives, beloved family and friends in the war:

>

> BG 2.12

> na tv evaham jatu nasam

> na tvam neme janadhipah

> na caiva na bhavisyamah

> sarve vayam atah param

>

> 'Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all

these

> kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.'

>

> The Vedas teach us that the law of karma is made out of dualities,

> which will never make us happy and that we should try to free

> ourselves from karma and perform transcendental activities, which

do

> not cause karmic reactions. Acting in akarma. Good karma might

bring

> lot of material luck, but where there is material luck there also

is

> material suffering.

>

> These two are married, such as husband and wife, one cannot

separate

> them. Where there is one of them, you will find the other one.

>

> The true happiness and luck are deep in us. The soul is eternal,

ful

> of knowledge and bliss. We have to free our true self, the soul,

> from karma, than our real nature and happiness will shop up,

without

> any dualities. And no karma, bad karmic planetary positions can

> affect, demigods or demons can hurt or harm us.

>

> So, dear Mark, you are right, if no we act properly, in

> transcendental manner to the benefit to our soul and our God, no

one

> can really hurt us, and we are really free, and will never again

> experience suffering or misfortune. Because God Himself will

protect

> us, as He promises in the Bhagvat Geeta.

>

> Kind regards,

> Shad

>

>

>

> Dear Shad:

>

> I agree with your words very much.

>

> I only want to add one thing.

>

> And that is, if it's true that karma or our consequences are what

> we're

> truely experiencing,

> then, not only does that help us,....

>

> from not blaming others for our situations....

>

>

> If karma is true, and all we experience is due to our own

> actions,... from

> somewhere in the past....

>

> then,.... if karma is true,....then the other side to this

> coin,...is that

> no one stands in our way!

>

> This means that no one can really hurt us, and we are really free

to

> right

> now, beginning a new action, which will be our next futures....

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

>

>

> ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

> Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?

subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear friend,

 

One slight correction, if I may?

It is generally scientists who say that there is no soul, etc.

Science does not! Science only can say what has been examined and

documented. It is a fine distinction. Like all other humans,

scientists often say things that are beyond their domain of research.

However, that must not be confused with what Science says or

maintains!

 

It is just like some jyotishis have their own views about science,

diseases, other worldly and non-worldly issues. Those are their

opinions, not the opinions or conclusions stated in Jyotish.

 

Fine but important detail, methinks!

 

RR

 

, "Shad" <waterpowers>

wrote:

> Dear Mark, and all,

>

> modern science rather occupies with symptoms than causes. Sciences

> bases on gross sensual perception, which is quiet limited, since

our

> senses are conditioned.

>

> To give you a short example: in school you learned that vapor from

> boiling water is lighter than air and due to this rises up. They

> came to this conclusion by their sensual perception and logical

> thinking. And this is a relative truth, which is wrong.

>

> Now here a nice article from NASA and experiments in zero gravity

> which shows they were wrong...

> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast07sep_2.htm

>

> Additional we must see that sensual perception is influenced by

> karma. Our karmic impressions in our psychological body 'color' our

> external sensual perception. Two people can look at the same woman,

> one can say she is beautiful and the other one will say she is an

> ugly wall-flower.

>

> What is the truth?

>

> Science does not accept the existence of the soul, as they only see

> the flesh, bones and DNA... approximately every seven years the

> scientific theories change and are re-newed.

> Jyotish in opposite sees the soul and spiritual and does not occupy

> with symptoms, but causes. Jyotish are the eyes of the vedas and

> true science, which will never change, as the speculations of so-

> called science do.

>

> Best regards,

> Shad

>

>

>

> , Mark Kincaid

> <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > Dear Shad & All:

> >

> > What amazes me is that modern science may have

discovered 'karma',

> for

> > atoms,

> > "for every action, there's an equal an opposite, re-action..."

> >

> > is a Physics law, now, but somehow they just haven't been able to

> make a

> > case for finding this same law in Psychology, or human life.

> >

> > This is encouraging however, but I think Jyotish can go a long

way

> at

> > helping bringing out this deep principle of 'causality', for

other

> areas of

> > life, too.

> >

> >

> > Mark K.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > "Shad" <waterpowers>

> >

> > Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:38:14 -0000

> >

> > liberation from karma... -> Mark K. - Sep 26, 2004

> >

> >

> > Dear Mark,

> >

> > Well, life isn't fair, but God is : )

> >

> > I can guarantee you the teachings of karma are real! And believe

> me,

> > I am no blind believer. Rather a scientific thinker, even an

> > inventor on the field of quantum physics - blind belief would be

> > abstract for me.

> >

> > The Bhagvat Geeta in my eyes is one of the best books, with which

> > one can study and understand the law of karma and its interaction

> > with the soul. But most important is that you are able to apply

and

> > realize this knowledge in your life here and now. Realized

> knowledge

> > about karma is true knowledge.

> > We may theoretically and logically understand things, but we

really

> > know things only when we have tried it and realized it in our very

> > lives.

> >

> > The teachings of the Bhagvat Geeta are no myth, poetry or

> whatsoever

> > universities and scientists call it – the Geeta is the jewel of

> > science!

> >

> > The Lord promises Arjuna: `o Arjuna, tell everyone that my devotee

> > will never fall, he eternally is under my protection.'

> > Once we take shelter in the protection of the Lord, He guides our

> > lives. No demi-Gods, karma, planets can harm us as we are

> protected!

> >

> > If we honestly worship God, chant His names and try to follow His

> > teachings, living our lives according to those, the Lord will

> remove

> > our karma, which might harm us on our way to self-realization.

> >

> > In Vedanta and Siddhanta is says: `The soul, our true self, cannot

> > be cut by weapons, burned by fire, moisten it with water or dried

> by

> > wind.'

> >

> > Krishna on the battlefield spoke to Arjuna, who was afraid to lose

> > his relatives, beloved family and friends in the war:

> >

> > BG 2.12

> > na tv evaham jatu nasam

> > na tvam neme janadhipah

> > na caiva na bhavisyamah

> > sarve vayam atah param

> >

> > 'Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all

> these

> > kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.'

> >

> > The Vedas teach us that the law of karma is made out of dualities,

> > which will never make us happy and that we should try to free

> > ourselves from karma and perform transcendental activities, which

> do

> > not cause karmic reactions. Acting in akarma. Good karma might

> bring

> > lot of material luck, but where there is material luck there also

> is

> > material suffering.

> >

> > These two are married, such as husband and wife, one cannot

> separate

> > them. Where there is one of them, you will find the other one.

> >

> > The true happiness and luck are deep in us. The soul is eternal,

> ful

> > of knowledge and bliss. We have to free our true self, the soul,

> > from karma, than our real nature and happiness will shop up,

> without

> > any dualities. And no karma, bad karmic planetary positions can

> > affect, demigods or demons can hurt or harm us.

> >

> > So, dear Mark, you are right, if no we act properly, in

> > transcendental manner to the benefit to our soul and our God, no

> one

> > can really hurt us, and we are really free, and will never again

> > experience suffering or misfortune. Because God Himself will

> protect

> > us, as He promises in the Bhagvat Geeta.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> > Shad

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Shad:

> >

> > I agree with your words very much.

> >

> > I only want to add one thing.

> >

> > And that is, if it's true that karma or our consequences are what

> > we're

> > truely experiencing,

> > then, not only does that help us,....

> >

> > from not blaming others for our situations....

> >

> >

> > If karma is true, and all we experience is due to our own

> > actions,... from

> > somewhere in the past....

> >

> > then,.... if karma is true,....then the other side to this

> > coin,...is that

> > no one stands in our way!

> >

> > This means that no one can really hurt us, and we are really free

> to

> > right

> > now, beginning a new action, which will be our next futures....

> >

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> >

> > Mark Kincaid

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> > /

> >

> >

> >

> > <?

> subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I guess science is not a *person* to state anything but whatever *it* has to

state, is stated by the scientists :-)

 

Scientists are the one who gave birth to science and science develops through

them and talk through them.

 

One may say that science existed always but that is not true. Gravity always

existed but not the knowledge related to this. And the *knowledge* related to

this is called science not the gravity itself.

 

The disagreement among many astrologers is a lot different from the disagreement

among scientists. There can *not* be as much disagreements among scientists as

there are among astrologers. Some take 9th house for the fathers, some 10th.

Some take eight karakas, some seven. These are basic disagreements.

 

This is because the application of astrology and proof of the theories is

sometimes very hard to prove. Astrology is an irregular area of study, there is

no fixed course, nor there is any *standard* set of rules and not even an

authority to decide who is an astrologer and who is not.

 

That is why many crooks come up with their own theories and *establish* them

same way.

 

Science does not have this limitation.

 

The problem is that science does not accept anything unless it is proved. So a

true but not-yet-proved phenomena is meaningless to the eye of science.

 

A scientist might believe in astrology but NOT science approaves it because it

was not established scientific by any standard authority yet. Thus science

rejects astrology though many scientists might believe in it.

 

Tanvir.

 

 

 

What can not happen, can never happen.

Which is mine, is forever mine.

 

Tanvir Chowdhury

Cellular: +88 0189407202

Mail: lord_narayana

Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com

Forum:

 

-

rohiniranjan

Monday, September 27, 2004 12:11 AM

Re: 2-Shad & All, > Mark Kincaid....9/26, re. liberation from

karma...&sciene of 'karma'

 

 

Dear friend,

 

One slight correction, if I may?

It is generally scientists who say that there is no soul, etc.

Science does not! Science only can say what has been examined and

documented. It is a fine distinction. Like all other humans,

scientists often say things that are beyond their domain of research.

However, that must not be confused with what Science says or

maintains!

 

It is just like some jyotishis have their own views about science,

diseases, other worldly and non-worldly issues. Those are their

opinions, not the opinions or conclusions stated in Jyotish.

 

Fine but important detail, methinks!

 

RR

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is what I want to say, simply, Tanvir:

 

Even though scientists are the spokespersons for science, they are

individually or collectively not science incarnate, nor are all their

statements representative of what 'Science' accepts or approves of

(factually).

 

For example, different scientists may feel differently about

astrology, spirituality, religion, etc -- things that science has not

examined. Statements by scientists in such instances must not be

muddled up (confused) with what mainstream science has to say.

 

Science, in this case, represents the consensus amongst a body of

people who are experienced in and experts in the area they are

commenting upon! If scientists were to test and examine (after

learning) astrology then I would take their opinions more seriously.

Just as I would take the writings of Seymore, Eysenck and Nias for

example.

 

Science has had its share of crooks and fast-flyers and fly-by-

nighters. Less so now because it is a tightly regulated and

controlled body, for the most part. It was not like this always, just

as astrology will not forever remain the loose, hairy-fairy realm as

it seems sometimes!

 

Science has also had its border-line phenomena, difficult to test

(cold fusion, for instance) just as astrology has (a few mentioned in

your post).

 

One last point: Science did not become a tightly controlled/regulated

body overnight or just by wishing, just as astrology would not,

either. People would have to begin to speak up and challenge

something that only a very few do, partly because they do not feel

confident and have not invested the time and effort into astrology

that most scientists doing science have. Astrology is resting on the

uneven shoulders of dabblers and marginally or mildly interested few.

I am sure the situation will change as more young people like you

begin to speak up and challenge the holy grail status quo.

 

RR

 

 

 

, "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...>

wrote:

> I guess science is not a *person* to state anything but whatever

*it* has to state, is stated by the scientists :-)

>

> Scientists are the one who gave birth to science and science

develops through them and talk through them.

>

> One may say that science existed always but that is not true.

Gravity always existed but not the knowledge related to this. And the

*knowledge* related to this is called science not the gravity itself.

>

> The disagreement among many astrologers is a lot different from the

disagreement among scientists. There can *not* be as much

disagreements among scientists as there are among astrologers. Some

take 9th house for the fathers, some 10th. Some take eight karakas,

some seven. These are basic disagreements.

>

> This is because the application of astrology and proof of the

theories is sometimes very hard to prove. Astrology is an irregular

area of study, there is no fixed course, nor there is any *standard*

set of rules and not even an authority to decide who is an astrologer

and who is not.

>

> That is why many crooks come up with their own theories and

*establish* them same way.

>

> Science does not have this limitation.

>

> The problem is that science does not accept anything unless it is

proved. So a true but not-yet-proved phenomena is meaningless to the

eye of science.

>

> A scientist might believe in astrology but NOT science approaves it

because it was not established scientific by any standard authority

yet. Thus science rejects astrology though many scientists might

believe in it.

>

> Tanvir.

>

>

>

> What can not happen, can never happen.

> Which is mine, is forever mine.

>

> Tanvir Chowdhury

> Cellular: +88 0189407202

> Mail: lord_narayana@l...

> Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com

> Forum:

>

> -

> rohiniranjan

>

> Monday, September 27, 2004 12:11 AM

> Re: 2-Shad & All, > Mark Kincaid....9/26, re.

liberation from karma...&sciene of 'karma'

>

>

> Dear friend,

>

> One slight correction, if I may?

> It is generally scientists who say that there is no soul, etc.

> Science does not! Science only can say what has been examined and

> documented. It is a fine distinction. Like all other humans,

> scientists often say things that are beyond their domain of

research.

> However, that must not be confused with what Science says or

> maintains!

>

> It is just like some jyotishis have their own views about

science,

> diseases, other worldly and non-worldly issues. Those are their

> opinions, not the opinions or conclusions stated in Jyotish.

>

> Fine but important detail, methinks!

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Very enlightening !

--- Shad <waterpowers wrote:

 

> Dear Mark, and all,

>

> modern science rather occupies with symptoms than

> causes. Sciences

> bases on gross sensual perception, which is quiet

> limited, since our

> senses are conditioned.

>

> To give you a short example: in school you learned

> that vapor from

> boiling water is lighter than air and due to this

> rises up. They

> came to this conclusion by their sensual perception

> and logical

> thinking. And this is a relative truth, which is

> wrong.

>

> Now here a nice article from NASA and experiments in

> zero gravity

> which shows they were wrong...

>

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast07sep_2.htm

>

> Additional we must see that sensual perception is

> influenced by

> karma. Our karmic impressions in our psychological

> body 'color' our

> external sensual perception. Two people can look at

> the same woman,

> one can say she is beautiful and the other one will

> say she is an

> ugly wall-flower.

>

> What is the truth?

>

> Science does not accept the existence of the soul,

> as they only see

> the flesh, bones and DNA... approximately every

> seven years the

> scientific theories change and are re-newed.

> Jyotish in opposite sees the soul and spiritual and

> does not occupy

> with symptoms, but causes. Jyotish are the eyes of

> the vedas and

> true science, which will never change, as the

> speculations of so-

> called science do.

>

> Best regards,

> Shad

>

>

>

> , Mark

> Kincaid

> <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > Dear Shad & All:

> >

> > What amazes me is that modern science may have

> discovered 'karma',

> for

> > atoms,

> > "for every action, there's an equal an opposite,

> re-action..."

> >

> > is a Physics law, now, but somehow they just

> haven't been able to

> make a

> > case for finding this same law in Psychology, or

> human life.

> >

> > This is encouraging however, but I think Jyotish

> can go a long way

> at

> > helping bringing out this deep principle of

> 'causality', for other

> areas of

> > life, too.

> >

> >

> > Mark K.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > "Shad" <waterpowers>

> >

> > Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:38:14 -0000

> >

> > liberation from karma... -> Mark K.

> - Sep 26, 2004

> >

> >

> > Dear Mark,

> >

> > Well, life isn't fair, but God is : )

> >

> > I can guarantee you the teachings of karma are

> real! And believe

> me,

> > I am no blind believer. Rather a scientific

> thinker, even an

> > inventor on the field of quantum physics - blind

> belief would be

> > abstract for me.

> >

> > The Bhagvat Geeta in my eyes is one of the best

> books, with which

> > one can study and understand the law of karma and

> its interaction

> > with the soul. But most important is that you are

> able to apply and

> > realize this knowledge in your life here and now.

> Realized

> knowledge

> > about karma is true knowledge.

> > We may theoretically and logically understand

> things, but we really

> > know things only when we have tried it and

> realized it in our very

> > lives.

> >

> > The teachings of the Bhagvat Geeta are no myth,

> poetry or

> whatsoever

> > universities and scientists call it – the Geeta is

> the jewel of

> > science!

> >

> > The Lord promises Arjuna: `o Arjuna, tell everyone

> that my devotee

> > will never fall, he eternally is under my

> protection.'

> > Once we take shelter in the protection of the

> Lord, He guides our

> > lives. No demi-Gods, karma, planets can harm us as

> we are

> protected!

> >

> > If we honestly worship God, chant His names and

> try to follow His

> > teachings, living our lives according to those,

> the Lord will

> remove

> > our karma, which might harm us on our way to

> self-realization.

> >

> > In Vedanta and Siddhanta is says: `The soul, our

> true self, cannot

> > be cut by weapons, burned by fire, moisten it with

> water or dried

> by

> > wind.'

> >

> > Krishna on the battlefield spoke to Arjuna, who

> was afraid to lose

> > his relatives, beloved family and friends in the

> war:

> >

> > BG 2.12

> > na tv evaham jatu nasam

> > na tvam neme janadhipah

> > na caiva na bhavisyamah

> > sarve vayam atah param

> >

> > 'Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor

> you, nor all

> these

> > kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to

> be.'

> >

> > The Vedas teach us that the law of karma is made

> out of dualities,

> > which will never make us happy and that we should

> try to free

> > ourselves from karma and perform transcendental

> activities, which

> do

> > not cause karmic reactions. Acting in akarma. Good

> karma might

> bring

> > lot of material luck, but where there is material

> luck there also

> is

> > material suffering.

> >

> > These two are married, such as husband and wife,

> one cannot

> separate

> > them. Where there is one of them, you will find

> the other one.

> >

> > The true happiness and luck are deep in us. The

> soul is eternal,

> ful

> > of knowledge and bliss. We have to free our true

> self, the soul,

> > from karma, than our real nature and happiness

> will shop up,

> without

> > any dualities. And no karma, bad karmic planetary

> positions can

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Good Point!

 

--- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote:

 

> Dear friend,

>

> One slight correction, if I may?

> It is generally scientists who say that there is no

> soul, etc.

> Science does not! Science only can say what has been

> examined and

> documented. It is a fine distinction. Like all other

> humans,

> scientists often say things that are beyond their

> domain of research.

> However, that must not be confused with what Science

> says or

> maintains!

>

> It is just like some jyotishis have their own views

> about science,

> diseases, other worldly and non-worldly issues.

> Those are their

> opinions, not the opinions or conclusions stated in

> Jyotish.

>

> Fine but important detail, methinks!

>

> RR

>

> , "Shad"

> <waterpowers>

> wrote:

> > Dear Mark, and all,

> >

> > modern science rather occupies with symptoms than

> causes. Sciences

> > bases on gross sensual perception, which is quiet

> limited, since

> our

> > senses are conditioned.

> >

> > To give you a short example: in school you learned

> that vapor from

> > boiling water is lighter than air and due to this

> rises up. They

> > came to this conclusion by their sensual

> perception and logical

> > thinking. And this is a relative truth, which is

> wrong.

> >

> > Now here a nice article from NASA and experiments

> in zero gravity

> > which shows they were wrong...

> >

>

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast07sep_2.htm

> >

> > Additional we must see that sensual perception is

> influenced by

> > karma. Our karmic impressions in our psychological

> body 'color' our

> > external sensual perception. Two people can look

> at the same woman,

> > one can say she is beautiful and the other one

> will say she is an

> > ugly wall-flower.

> >

> > What is the truth?

> >

> > Science does not accept the existence of the soul,

> as they only see

> > the flesh, bones and DNA... approximately every

> seven years the

> > scientific theories change and are re-newed.

> > Jyotish in opposite sees the soul and spiritual

> and does not occupy

> > with symptoms, but causes. Jyotish are the eyes of

> the vedas and

> > true science, which will never change, as the

> speculations of so-

> > called science do.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Shad

> >

> >

> >

> > , Mark

> Kincaid

> > <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > Dear Shad & All:

> > >

> > > What amazes me is that modern science may have

> discovered 'karma',

> > for

> > > atoms,

> > > "for every action, there's an equal an opposite,

> re-action..."

> > >

> > > is a Physics law, now, but somehow they just

> haven't been able to

> > make a

> > > case for finding this same law in Psychology, or

> human life.

> > >

> > > This is encouraging however, but I think Jyotish

> can go a long

> way

> > at

> > > helping bringing out this deep principle of

> 'causality', for

> other

> > areas of

> > > life, too.

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark K.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > "Shad" <waterpowers>

> > >

> > > Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:38:14 -0000

> > >

> > > liberation from karma... -> Mark

> K. - Sep 26, 2004

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Mark,

> > >

> > > Well, life isn't fair, but God is : )

> > >

> > > I can guarantee you the teachings of karma are

> real! And believe

> > me,

> > > I am no blind believer. Rather a scientific

> thinker, even an

> > > inventor on the field of quantum physics - blind

> belief would be

> > > abstract for me.

> > >

> > > The Bhagvat Geeta in my eyes is one of the best

> books, with which

> > > one can study and understand the law of karma

> and its interaction

> > > with the soul. But most important is that you

> are able to apply

> and

> > > realize this knowledge in your life here and

> now. Realized

> > knowledge

> > > about karma is true knowledge.

> > > We may theoretically and logically understand

> things, but we

> really

> > > know things only when we have tried it and

> realized it in our very

> > > lives.

> > >

> > > The teachings of the Bhagvat Geeta are no myth,

> poetry or

> > whatsoever

> > > universities and scientists call it – the Geeta

> is the jewel of

> > > science!

> > >

> > > The Lord promises Arjuna: `o Arjuna, tell

> everyone that my devotee

> > > will never fall, he eternally is under my

> protection.'

> > > Once we take shelter in the protection of the

> Lord, He guides our

> > > lives. No demi-Gods, karma, planets can harm us

> as we are

> > protected!

> > >

> > > If we honestly worship God, chant His names and

> try to follow His

> > > teachings, living our lives according to those,

> the Lord will

> > remove

> > > our karma, which might harm us on our way to

> self-realization.

> > >

> > > In Vedanta and Siddhanta is says: `The soul, our

> true self, cannot

> > > be cut by weapons, burned by fire, moisten it

> with water or dried

> > by

> > > wind.'

> > >

> > > Krishna on the battlefield spoke to Arjuna, who

> was afraid to lose

> > > his relatives, beloved family and friends in the

> war:

> > >

> > > BG 2.12

> > > na tv evaham jatu nasam

> > > na tvam neme janadhipah

> > > na caiva na bhavisyamah

> > > sarve vayam atah param

> > >

> > > 'Never was there a time when I did not exist,

> nor you, nor all

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

_______________________________

 

Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!

http://vote.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shad & All:

 

I believe, actually, that good Jyotish is not that different

really....from.......good science.

 

What I mean is when we have our charts, 'read' or study our own Jyotish, we

look inside,

and 'feel' if that statement or expression, really fits us...

 

And if it does, we go....'wow, you're right'....

 

In this way, we are like little scientists, testing and validating,....the

ideas, principles, rules and expressions of Jyotish or Astrology.

 

The main difference I see, is that Jyotish is much more comprehensive, and

contains the knowledge of the mind as well as matter.

 

Though the Western science, of Psychology, has not progressed, nearly as far

as Physics, for example...

 

But, Jyotish contains the wisdom of both Psychology, and Physiology.

 

In fact, all branches of science, or areas of life, are contained within

Jyotish.

 

The physical body is contained in the lst house,

Mind or psychology is captured in the 4th house...

early life including education is contained within the 5th house,...

health is contained within the 6th house...

 

 

So, profound is this knowingness from Jyotish, that even our dna, or

genetics, what diseases willl we be prone to.....

 

all these things are contained within our Jyotish chart....

 

I guess one could do Jyotish in a non-scientific way,.... not

objectively,.... not testing out the ideas and opinions....

 

but, we kind of do that anyway...

 

Someone tells us something about our charts, and immediately, we do

that,....we look within,

we want to verify the validity or truth......

 

And according to Vedic Science,....it's the true, 'Knower' within, that's

the ultimate judge, or evaluator....

 

So, we look within,...and we say....yea,...or nay.....

 

 

Shad also said:

 

 

What is the truth?

 

Science does not accept the existence of the soul, as they only see

the flesh, bones and DNA... approximately every seven years the

scientific theories change and are re-newed.

Jyotish in opposite sees the soul and spiritual and does not occupy

with symptoms, but causes. Jyotish are the eyes of the vedas and

true science, which will never change, as the speculations of so-

called science do.

 

 

You're right science does not accept the existence of the soul,...

but some are beginning to study 'it'...

 

What is the soul?

 

According to many modern thinkers,....consciousness....is the soul...

 

And we are consious...

 

We may not know everything about that 'consciousness'....

but it is real, and true!

 

It does exist....because we 'are'....

 

We experience,...being conscious...

 

What I especially like about Jyotish, is Jyotish has the amazing ability to

decipher,.... within that abstract field of consciousness....

 

It is true, we all, are conscious,...but the flavors of 'that'

consciousness,...are multi-fold...

 

Some have a gemini, flavor, some...more cancerish,....some Leoish...while

some Aquarian....

 

As Karl Jung said: 'Astrology helps us understand the many archetypal forms

of the mind.'

 

I believe 'god' him/ahhh...herself...' created this period of modern

science, so humans would gain the ability to start verifying truth....

 

Pre-science people argued about everything including whether the World was

round or flat!

 

Science then, got invented, came along, so people could test their

beliefs...

 

Okay, we believe that the Universe is basically 'astrological'...

 

So, let's prove it to people!

 

First, prove it to ourselves!

 

Then, le'ts help others discover these wonderful truths!

 

 

Jai Guru

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

Founder Starlight Unlimited, a business, promoting Jyotish into all areas of

life.

Nature's Astrology: / a

,

looking at the best of Western & Eastern Astrologys, and how we can

encourage

a development of a true, modern day Science of Astrology

and new :

kincaidmark/ for those who want more formal

Jyotish.

 

 

 

 

 

"Shad" <waterpowers

 

Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:51:36 -0000

 

Re: 2-Shad & All, > Mark Kincaid....9/26, re. liberation from

karma...&sciene of 'karma'

 

 

Dear Mark, and all,

 

modern science rather occupies with symptoms than causes. Sciences

bases on gross sensual perception, which is quiet limited, since our

senses are conditioned.

 

To give you a short example: in school you learned that vapor from

boiling water is lighter than air and due to this rises up. They

came to this conclusion by their sensual perception and logical

thinking. And this is a relative truth, which is wrong.

 

Now here a nice article from NASA and experiments in zero gravity

which shows they were wrong...

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast07sep_2.htm

 

Additional we must see that sensual perception is influenced by

karma. Our karmic impressions in our psychological body 'color' our

external sensual perception. Two people can look at the same woman,

one can say she is beautiful and the other one will say she is an

ugly wall-flower.

 

What is the truth?

 

Science does not accept the existence of the soul, as they only see

the flesh, bones and DNA... approximately every seven years the

scientific theories change and are re-newed.

Jyotish in opposite sees the soul and spiritual and does not occupy

with symptoms, but causes. Jyotish are the eyes of the vedas and

true science, which will never change, as the speculations of so-

called science do.

 

Best regards,

Shad

 

 

 

, Mark Kincaid

<m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> Dear Shad & All:

>

> What amazes me is that modern science may have discovered 'karma',

for

> atoms,

> "for every action, there's an equal an opposite, re-action..."

>

> is a Physics law, now, but somehow they just haven't been able to

make a

> case for finding this same law in Psychology, or human life.

>

> This is encouraging however, but I think Jyotish can go a long way

at

> helping bringing out this deep principle of 'causality', for other

areas of

> life, too.

>

>

> Mark K.

>

>

>

>

> "Shad" <waterpowers>

>

> Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:38:14 -0000

>

> liberation from karma... -> Mark K. - Sep 26, 2004

>

>

> Dear Mark,

>

> Well, life isn't fair, but God is : )

>

> I can guarantee you the teachings of karma are real! And believe

me,

> I am no blind believer. Rather a scientific thinker, even an

> inventor on the field of quantum physics - blind belief would be

> abstract for me.

>

> The Bhagvat Geeta in my eyes is one of the best books, with which

> one can study and understand the law of karma and its interaction

> with the soul. But most important is that you are able to apply and

> realize this knowledge in your life here and now. Realized

knowledge

> about karma is true knowledge.

> We may theoretically and logically understand things, but we really

> know things only when we have tried it and realized it in our very

> lives.

>

> The teachings of the Bhagvat Geeta are no myth, poetry or

whatsoever

> universities and scientists call it – the Geeta is the jewel of

> science!

>

> The Lord promises Arjuna: `o Arjuna, tell everyone that my devotee

> will never fall, he eternally is under my protection.'

> Once we take shelter in the protection of the Lord, He guides our

> lives. No demi-Gods, karma, planets can harm us as we are

protected!

>

> If we honestly worship God, chant His names and try to follow His

> teachings, living our lives according to those, the Lord will

remove

> our karma, which might harm us on our way to self-realization.

>

> In Vedanta and Siddhanta is says: `The soul, our true self, cannot

> be cut by weapons, burned by fire, moisten it with water or dried

by

> wind.'

>

> Krishna on the battlefield spoke to Arjuna, who was afraid to lose

> his relatives, beloved family and friends in the war:

>

> BG 2.12

> na tv evaham jatu nasam

> na tvam neme janadhipah

> na caiva na bhavisyamah

> sarve vayam atah param

>

> 'Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all

these

> kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.'

>

> The Vedas teach us that the law of karma is made out of dualities,

> which will never make us happy and that we should try to free

> ourselves from karma and perform transcendental activities, which

do

> not cause karmic reactions. Acting in akarma. Good karma might

bring

> lot of material luck, but where there is material luck there also

is

> material suffering.

>

> These two are married, such as husband and wife, one cannot

separate

> them. Where there is one of them, you will find the other one.

>

> The true happiness and luck are deep in us. The soul is eternal,

ful

> of knowledge and bliss. We have to free our true self, the soul,

> from karma, than our real nature and happiness will shop up,

without

> any dualities. And no karma, bad karmic planetary positions can

> affect, demigods or demons can hurt or harm us.

>

> So, dear Mark, you are right, if no we act properly, in

> transcendental manner to the benefit to our soul and our God, no

one

> can really hurt us, and we are really free, and will never again

> experience suffering or misfortune. Because God Himself will

protect

> us, as He promises in the Bhagvat Geeta.

>

> Kind regards,

> Shad

>

>

>

> Dear Shad:

>

> I agree with your words very much.

>

> I only want to add one thing.

>

> And that is, if it's true that karma or our consequences are what

> we're

> truely experiencing,

> then, not only does that help us,....

>

> from not blaming others for our situations....

>

>

> If karma is true, and all we experience is due to our own

> actions,... from

> somewhere in the past....

>

> then,.... if karma is true,....then the other side to this

> coin,...is that

> no one stands in our way!

>

> This means that no one can really hurt us, and we are really free

to

> right

> now, beginning a new action, which will be our next futures....

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

>

>

> ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

>

>

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>

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