Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an example, if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are supposed to get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is there in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons outlook :-) --Manoshi , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Inder, > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > that no one answered ! > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > .. there are millions of other species which are > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > course of our life. > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > goes right and > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > period , even your > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > are physically and > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > Astrolgy. > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > again is whether the > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > results of our > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > billion in last > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > created > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > the past. > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > ?! > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > the expanding > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > with some random > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > in such > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > accept the life as > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > only to go back > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > Inder > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > Chatterjee" > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > beautiful. But as you > > have > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > performed > > > > in your past births" > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > believe that what > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > something called > > destiny > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > called astrology (we > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > help always...well > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > strength but then > > when > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > exists but its our > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > Your quote > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > sorrow or > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > sneh > > > Manoshi Di > > > -- In , brijesh > > bagga > > <brij731> > > > wrote: > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > standing > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > story of > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > learned > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > Brijesh > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > you > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > your > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > people's > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > acknowledge > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > that > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > and > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > this > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > proved to > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > it is > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > after > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > to > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > yourself, > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > Why > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > are > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > real, > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > where > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > exists > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > really > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > unfairness and > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > people > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > life has > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > Most > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > suicides > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > we > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > have > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > that > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > general > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > God is > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > serious > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > taught > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > listen to > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > you, > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > we > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > I have > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > saw > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > the > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > world > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > This > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > possible to > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > same > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > prayers > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not phal is what one must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal (karma and not karma- phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts rarely become doable without a goal or phal. How many have really ever studied something just for the heck of it and without goals such as 'knowing' or "occupational promises" etc in mind? So, realistically, there will most often be some visions of the phal that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). And, there is nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing karma, because, the real important thing is doing karma and continuing to do karma. If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the ideal way, but better than inactivity! RR , "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> wrote: > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an example, > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are supposed to > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is there > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > outlook :-) > > --Manoshi > , surya vishnubhotla > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > Inder, > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > that no one answered ! > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > course of our life. > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > goes right and > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > period , even your > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > are physically and > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > again is whether the > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > results of our > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > billion in last > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > created > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > the past. > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > ?! > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > the expanding > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > with some random > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > in such > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > accept the life as > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > only to go back > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > Chatterjee" > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > beautiful. But as you > > > have > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > performed > > > > > in your past births" > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > believe that what > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > something called > > > destiny > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > called astrology (we > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > help always...well > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > strength but then > > > when > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > exists but its our > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > sorrow or > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > bagga > > > <brij731> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > standing > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > story of > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > learned > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > you > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > your > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > people's > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > acknowledge > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > that > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > and > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > this > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > proved to > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > it is > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > after > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > to > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > yourself, > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > Why > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > are > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > real, > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > where > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > exists > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > really > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > unfairness and > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > people > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > life has > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > Most > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > suicides > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > we > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > have > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > that > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > general > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > God is > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > serious > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > taught > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > listen to > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > you, > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > we > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > I have > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > saw > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > the > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > world > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > This > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > possible to > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > same > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > prayers > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 What I think on karma and phal, is that concious living and taking control of self is in reality sprituality. So when you are doing some work you should be concious of yourself, your breathings, your work in hand,the you working on the job, and you as divine performing the work. You can keep phal in some part of your mind, but thinking and getting anxious about phal will reduce your performance and body energy. So you have to enjoy the process as well as phal when it comes. The enjoyment of phal may be for short duration as you again shift your thinking at that point of time. Better to enjoy enjoy the whole process. And take cotrol of yourself. Inder In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not phal is what one > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal (karma and not karma- > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts rarely become doable > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever studied something > just for the heck of it and without goals such as 'knowing' > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > So, realistically, there will most often be some visions of the phal > that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). And, there is > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing karma, because, > the real important thing is doing karma and continuing to do karma. > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the ideal way, but > better than inactivity! > > RR > > > > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an example, > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are supposed to > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is there > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > > outlook :-) > > > > --Manoshi > > , surya vishnubhotla > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > Inder, > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > course of our life. > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > > goes right and > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > > period , even your > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > > are physically and > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > > again is whether the > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > > results of our > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > > billion in last > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > > created > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > > the past. > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > > the expanding > > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > > with some random > > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > > in such > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > > accept the life as > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > > only to go back > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > have > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > > performed > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > > believe that what > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > something called > > > > destiny > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > > help always...well > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > > strength but then > > > > when > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > > exists but its our > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > > sorrow or > > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > > bagga > > > > <brij731> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > > standing > > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > > story of > > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > > learned > > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > > you > > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > > your > > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > > people's > > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > > acknowledge > > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > > that > > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > > and > > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > > this > > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > > proved to > > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > > it is > > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > > after > > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > > to > > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > > yourself, > > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > > Why > > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > > are > > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > > real, > > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > > where > > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > > exists > > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > > really > > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > > unfairness and > > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > > people > > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > > life has > > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > > Most > > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > > suicides > > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > > we > > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > > have > > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > > that > > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > > general > > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > > God is > > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > > serious > > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > > taught > > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > > listen to > > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > > you, > > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > > we > > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > > I have > > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > > saw > > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > > the > > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > > world > > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > > This > > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > > possible to > > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > > same > > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > > prayers > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Dear Tanvir, Inder, Manoshi, Surya and all, this was a very nice posting from Tanvir on karma and fate! My personal realization in life is that belief in God without karma and fate doesn't make sense. It would be blind belief, a belief which says 'if I believe in it, it exists, and if I don't believe in it, there is nothing'. A gruesome God who allows the poor children in Africa to starve, although they did not do anything bad in their lives, or children who are aborted, before they can really start living, as there was no way to be guilty or sinful for anything at that point, or that 13Million people starve on this planet while other people live in comfort and harmony, such a God is not worth being called or worshipped as God, if there is no karma or previous life. Such a God let's us life and die, suffer and enjoy for His mere pleasure, without justice or sense in life. This is the cause why atheists do not believe in God! If there was a God, He would not allow such thing to happen, is their basic argument. But God is merciful, He let's us forget our previous lifetimes, so we can start again from the scratch. We may repeat the grade, he again and again gives us a new chance. How would we life if we remembered each detail of previous activities, good and bad?! Many people can hardly life with what they have done in this lifetime, what to speak of memories from other lifetimes?! Karma is no punishment or reward, it is a school which forms our consciousness, so that we one day we will be able to transcend karma, to go beyond karma and guna. A faster way is described in Bhagvat Geeta, given by God Himself, Krishna. For me personally it brought much light into life, and I am sure it can help many many people. No matter from which culture, religion, race, caste a person might come from. Karma, the reaction on our activities, forms our consciousness as long as we will not understand we are not this body but a spiritual soul on his/her path. It forms us as long as we will not understand we are not the ones who acts but those who only desire - God acts. As long as we will think we act that long we will have to take the karma, bad and good. But if we follow the teachings of Bhagvat Geeta we can act beyond karma and guna, act in akarma, without receiving material reactions. Such acting frees us from karma and leads us to self-realization. Best regards, Shad !om namah sivay! , "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> wrote: > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an example, > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are supposed to > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is there > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > outlook :-) > > --Manoshi > , surya vishnubhotla > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > Inder, > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > that no one answered ! > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > course of our life. > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > goes right and > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > period , even your > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > are physically and > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > again is whether the > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > results of our > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > billion in last > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > created > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > the past. > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > ?! > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > the expanding > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > with some random > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > in such > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > accept the life as > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > only to go back > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > Chatterjee" > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > beautiful. But as you > > > have > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > performed > > > > > in your past births" > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > believe that what > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > something called > > > destiny > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > called astrology (we > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > help always...well > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > strength but then > > > when > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > exists but its our > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > sorrow or > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > bagga > > > <brij731> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > standing > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > story of > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > learned > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > you > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > your > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > people's > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > acknowledge > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > that > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > and > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > this > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > proved to > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > it is > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > after > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > to > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > yourself, > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > Why > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > are > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > real, > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > where > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > exists > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > really > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > unfairness and > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > people > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > life has > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > Most > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > suicides > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > we > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > have > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > that > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > general > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > God is > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > serious > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > taught > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > listen to > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > you, > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > we > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > I have > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > saw > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > the > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > world > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > This > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > possible to > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > same > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > prayers > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Yes, it seems to be the pragmatic approach,given the very meager awareness most (nearly all) of us have of our existence other than in this life time and even in this lifetime, most people are not fully or at all aware of at least one third of their life (assuming they sleep on an average 8 hrs per day). , "Inder" <indervohra2001> wrote: > What I think on karma and phal, is that concious living and taking > control of self is in reality sprituality. > So when you are doing some work you should be concious of yourself, > your breathings, your work in hand,the you working on the job, and > you as divine performing the work. > You can keep phal in some part of your mind, but thinking and > getting anxious about phal will reduce your performance and body > energy. > So you have to enjoy the process as well as phal when it comes. > The enjoyment of phal may be for short duration as you again shift > your thinking at that point of time. Better to enjoy enjoy the whole > process. And take cotrol of yourself. > Inder > > In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not phal is what > one > > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal (karma and not > karma- > > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts rarely become > doable > > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever studied > something > > just for the heck of it and without goals such as 'knowing' > > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > > > So, realistically, there will most often be some visions of the > phal > > that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). And, there is > > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing karma, > because, > > the real important thing is doing karma and continuing to do > karma. > > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the ideal way, but > > better than inactivity! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee" > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an > example, > > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are supposed > to > > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is > > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I > > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is > there > > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > > > outlook :-) > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > , surya vishnubhotla > > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > > Inder, > > > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > > course of our life. > > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > > > goes right and > > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > > > period , even your > > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > > > are physically and > > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > > > again is whether the > > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > > > results of our > > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > > > billion in last > > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > > > created > > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > > > the past. > > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > > > the expanding > > > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > > > with some random > > > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > > > in such > > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > > > accept the life as > > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > > > only to go back > > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > > have > > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > > > performed > > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > > > believe that what > > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > > something called > > > > > destiny > > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > > > help always...well > > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > > > strength but then > > > > > when > > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > > > exists but its our > > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > > > sorrow or > > > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > > > bagga > > > > > <brij731> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > > > standing > > > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > > > story of > > > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > > > learned > > > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > > > you > > > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > > > your > > > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > > > people's > > > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > > > acknowledge > > > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > > > that > > > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > > > and > > > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > > > this > > > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > > > proved to > > > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > > > after > > > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > > > to > > > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > > > yourself, > > > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > > > Why > > > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > > > real, > > > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > > > where > > > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > > > exists > > > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > > > really > > > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > > > unfairness and > > > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > > > people > > > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > > > life has > > > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > > > suicides > > > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > > > we > > > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > > > have > > > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > > > that > > > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > > > general > > > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > > > God is > > > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > > > taught > > > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > > > listen to > > > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > > > you, > > > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > > > we > > > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > > > I have > > > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > > > saw > > > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > > > the > > > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > > > world > > > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > > > This > > > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > > > possible to > > > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > > > same > > > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > > > prayers > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > around > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Dear Rohiniji, Yes, you are right. It is easier saying this than practising it. But considering that it is pragmatic approach and it gives us happiness. We should try to cultivate this awareness. Inder In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Yes, it seems to be the pragmatic approach,given the very meager > awareness most (nearly all) of us have of our existence other than in > this life time and even in this lifetime, most people are not fully > or at all aware of at least one third of their life (assuming they > sleep on an average 8 hrs per day). > > , "Inder" > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > What I think on karma and phal, is that concious living and taking > > control of self is in reality sprituality. > > So when you are doing some work you should be concious of yourself, > > your breathings, your work in hand,the you working on the job, and > > you as divine performing the work. > > You can keep phal in some part of your mind, but thinking and > > getting anxious about phal will reduce your performance and body > > energy. > > So you have to enjoy the process as well as phal when it comes. > > The enjoyment of phal may be for short duration as you again shift > > your thinking at that point of time. Better to enjoy enjoy the > whole > > process. And take cotrol of yourself. > > Inder > > > > In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not phal is what > > one > > > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal (karma and not > > karma- > > > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts rarely become > > doable > > > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever studied > > something > > > just for the heck of it and without goals such as 'knowing' > > > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > > > > > So, realistically, there will most often be some visions of the > > phal > > > that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). And, there is > > > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing karma, > > because, > > > the real important thing is doing karma and continuing to do > > karma. > > > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the ideal way, but > > > better than inactivity! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee" > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an > > example, > > > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are > supposed > > to > > > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is > > > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I > > > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > > > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is > > there > > > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > > > > outlook :-) > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > , surya vishnubhotla > > > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > > > Inder, > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > > > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > > > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > > > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > > > course of our life. > > > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > > > > goes right and > > > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > > > > period , even your > > > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > > > > are physically and > > > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > > > > again is whether the > > > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > > > > results of our > > > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > > > > billion in last > > > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > > > > created > > > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > > > > the past. > > > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > > > > the expanding > > > > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > > > > with some random > > > > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > > > > in such > > > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > > > > accept the life as > > > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > > > > only to go back > > > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > > > > performed > > > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > > > > believe that what > > > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > > > something called > > > > > > destiny > > > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > > > > help always...well > > > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > > > > strength but then > > > > > > when > > > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > > > > exists but its our > > > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > > > > sorrow or > > > > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > > > > bagga > > > > > > <brij731> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > > > > standing > > > > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > > > > story of > > > > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > > > > learned > > > > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > > > > people's > > > > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > > > > acknowledge > > > > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > > > > proved to > > > > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > > > > yourself, > > > > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > > > > Why > > > > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > > > > real, > > > > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > > > > exists > > > > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > > > > unfairness and > > > > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > > > > life has > > > > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > > > > suicides > > > > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > > > > general > > > > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > > > > God is > > > > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > > > > taught > > > > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > > > > listen to > > > > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > > > > you, > > > > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > > > > I have > > > > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > > > > saw > > > > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > > > > possible to > > > > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > > > > prayers > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > around > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 "Pragmatic" does not necessarily mean that that is the truth :-) Pragmatic just indicates that it is the easier way out for some. Particularly those who have more a scientific/rational bent of mind and hate keeping too many balls in the air. Ultimately, it would remain a personal choice whether to believe in karma or not, or even to believe in astrology or not. Each camp will say that their approach is the best and true and the others are sadly mistaken. These discussions are not new, and shall continue forever and the primary fuel that keeps them going is the limited awareness of human beings (as outlined below in my earlier message). If we all were truly and clearly aware of things such as rebirths, and not based on psychic impressions or other circumstantial evidence, etc. the debate would not have arisen in the first place. Anyways ... RR , "Inder" <indervohra2001> wrote: > Dear Rohiniji, > Yes, you are right. It is easier saying this than practising it. But > considering that it is pragmatic approach and it gives us happiness. > We should try to cultivate this awareness. > Inder > > In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Yes, it seems to be the pragmatic approach,given the very meager > > awareness most (nearly all) of us have of our existence other than > in > > this life time and even in this lifetime, most people are not > fully > > or at all aware of at least one third of their life (assuming they > > sleep on an average 8 hrs per day). > > > > , "Inder" > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > What I think on karma and phal, is that concious living and > taking > > > control of self is in reality sprituality. > > > So when you are doing some work you should be concious of > yourself, > > > your breathings, your work in hand,the you working on the job, > and > > > you as divine performing the work. > > > You can keep phal in some part of your mind, but thinking and > > > getting anxious about phal will reduce your performance and body > > > energy. > > > So you have to enjoy the process as well as phal when it comes. > > > The enjoyment of phal may be for short duration as you again > shift > > > your thinking at that point of time. Better to enjoy enjoy the > > whole > > > process. And take cotrol of yourself. > > > Inder > > > > > > In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not phal is > what > > > one > > > > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal (karma and not > > > karma- > > > > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts rarely become > > > doable > > > > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever studied > > > something > > > > just for the heck of it and without goals such as 'knowing' > > > > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > > > > > > > So, realistically, there will most often be some visions of > the > > > phal > > > > that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). And, there > is > > > > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing karma, > > > because, > > > > the real important thing is doing karma and continuing to do > > > karma. > > > > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the ideal way, > but > > > > better than inactivity! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee" > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an > > > example, > > > > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are > > supposed > > > to > > > > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result > is > > > > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? > So I > > > > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > > > > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is > > > there > > > > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > > > > > outlook :-) > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > , surya vishnubhotla > > > > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > > > > Inder, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > > > > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > > > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > > > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > > > > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > > > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > > > > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > > > > course of our life. > > > > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > > > > > goes right and > > > > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > > > > > period , even your > > > > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > > > > > are physically and > > > > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > > > > > again is whether the > > > > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > > > > > results of our > > > > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > > > > > billion in last > > > > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > > > > > the expanding > > > > > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > > > > > with some random > > > > > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > > > > > in such > > > > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > > > > > accept the life as > > > > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > > > > > only to go back > > > > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > > > > > performed > > > > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > > > > > believe that what > > > > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > > > > something called > > > > > > > destiny > > > > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > > > > > help always...well > > > > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > > > > > strength but then > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > > > > > exists but its our > > > > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > > > > > sorrow or > > > > > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > > > > > bagga > > > > > > > <brij731> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > > > > > standing > > > > > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > > > > > story of > > > > > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > > > > > learned > > > > > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > > > > > people's > > > > > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > > > > > acknowledge > > > > > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > > > > > proved to > > > > > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > > > > > yourself, > > > > > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > > > > > Why > > > > > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > > > > > real, > > > > > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > > > > > exists > > > > > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > > > > > unfairness and > > > > > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > > > > > life has > > > > > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > > > > > suicides > > > > > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > > > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > > > > > general > > > > > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > > > > > God is > > > > > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > > > > > taught > > > > > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > > > > > listen to > > > > > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > > > > > you, > > > > > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > > > > > I have > > > > > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > > > > > saw > > > > > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > > > > > possible to > > > > > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > > > > > prayers > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection > > > around > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 If I am correct then Lord Krishna said that we have no authority over the Karma Phal but authority over the Karma only. But, did he say not to BELIEVE in Karma, or did he say not to believe in Karma Phal ? [As Manoshi Di ?] What can not happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. Tanvir Chowdhury Cellular: +88 0189407202 Mail: lord_narayana Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com Forum: - rohiniranjan Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:35 AM Re: Life is not fair---Surya In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not phal is what one must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal (karma and not karma- phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts rarely become doable without a goal or phal. How many have really ever studied something just for the heck of it and without goals such as 'knowing' or "occupational promises" etc in mind? So, realistically, there will most often be some visions of the phal that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). And, there is nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing karma, because, the real important thing is doing karma and continuing to do karma. If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the ideal way, but better than inactivity! RR , "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> wrote: > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an example, > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are supposed to > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is there > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > outlook :-) > > --Manoshi > , surya vishnubhotla > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > Inder, > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > that no one answered ! > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > course of our life. > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > goes right and > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > period , even your > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > are physically and > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > again is whether the > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > results of our > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > billion in last > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > created > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > the past. > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > ?! > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > the expanding > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > with some random > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > in such > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > accept the life as > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > only to go back > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > Chatterjee" > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > beautiful. But as you > > > have > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > performed > > > > > in your past births" > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > believe that what > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > something called > > > destiny > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > called astrology (we > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > help always...well > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > strength but then > > > when > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > exists but its our > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > sorrow or > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > bagga > > > <brij731> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > standing > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > story of > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > learned > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > you > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > your > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > people's > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > acknowledge > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > that > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > and > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > this > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > proved to > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > it is > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > after > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > to > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > yourself, > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > Why > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > are > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > real, > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > where > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > exists > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > really > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > unfairness and > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > people > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > life has > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > Most > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > suicides > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > we > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > have > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > that > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > general > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > God is > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > serious > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > taught > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > listen to > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > you, > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > we > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > I have > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > saw > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > the > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > world > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > This > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > possible to > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > same > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > prayers > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Tanvir, please experience it first hand. Read Gita :-) RR , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...> wrote: > If I am correct then Lord Krishna said that we have no authority over the Karma Phal but authority over the Karma only. But, did he say not to BELIEVE in Karma, or did he say not to believe in Karma Phal ? [As Manoshi Di ?] > > > > What can not happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > Tanvir Chowdhury > Cellular: +88 0189407202 > Mail: lord_narayana@l... > Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com > Forum: > > - > rohiniranjan > > Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:35 AM > Re: Life is not fair---Surya > > > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not phal is what one > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal (karma and not karma- > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts rarely become doable > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever studied something > just for the heck of it and without goals such as 'knowing' > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > So, realistically, there will most often be some visions of the phal > that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). And, there is > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing karma, because, > the real important thing is doing karma and continuing to do karma. > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the ideal way, but > better than inactivity! > > RR > > > > > , "Manoshi Chatterjee" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma phal.for an example, > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY or are supposed to > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and your result is > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma phal....? So I > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the results." > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who knows what is there > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change a persons > > outlook :-) > > > > --Manoshi > > , surya vishnubhotla > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > Inder, > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same > > > question a couple of months ago .. different issue > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in human > > > population ... can this be one point to think about? > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont experience > > > all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > course of our life. > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > > > > goes right and > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > > > > period , even your > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > > > > are physically and > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > > > > again is whether the > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > > > > results of our > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > > > > billion in last > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > > > > created > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > > > > the past. > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > > > > the expanding > > > > universe small particles like our lives are created > > > > with some random > > > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > > > > in such > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > > > > accept the life as > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > > > > only to go back > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > - In , "Manoshi > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > have > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > > performed > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > > > > believe that what > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > something called > > > > destiny > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > > > > help always...well > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > > strength but then > > > > when > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > > > > exists but its our > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > > > > sorrow or > > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > > -- In , brijesh > > > > bagga > > > > <brij731> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > > > > standing > > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > > > > story of > > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > > learned > > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > > > > you > > > > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > > > > your > > > > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > > > > people's > > > > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > > > > acknowledge > > > > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > > > > that > > > > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > > > > and > > > > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > > > > this > > > > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > > > > proved to > > > > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > > > > it is > > > > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > > > > after > > > > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > > > > to > > > > > > > someone close to you. You will question > > > > yourself, > > > > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > > > > Why > > > > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > > > > are > > > > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > > > > real, > > > > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > > > > where > > > > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > > > > exists > > > > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > > > > really > > > > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > > > > unfairness and > > > > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > > > > people > > > > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > > > > life has > > > > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > > > > Most > > > > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > > > > suicides > > > > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > > > > we > > > > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > > > > have > > > > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > > > > that > > > > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > > > > general > > > > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > > > > God is > > > > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > > > > serious > > > > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > > > > taught > > > > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > > > > listen to > > > > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > > > > you, > > > > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > > > > we > > > > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > > > > I have > > > > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > > > > saw > > > > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > > > > the > > > > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > > > > world > > > > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > > > > This > > > > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > > > > possible to > > > > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > > > > same > > > > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > > > > prayers > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > -- ---------- > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Must say that we all are enjoying your comments a lot :-D TC What can not happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. Tanvir Chowdhury Cellular: +88 0189407202 Mail: lord_narayana Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com Forum: - rohiniranjan Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:36 PM Re: Life is not fair---Surya Tanvir, please experience it first hand. Read Gita :-) RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Good thoughts, Just an inclusion of mine though ... it's not that you should not have karma phal in your mind .. it is that you should not be attached to whatever phal you get .. the result should be accepted without resentment ... If there is no karma phal in focus then there is no karma that you can do !! .. even in mahabharata every event and in many cases Sri krishnas directions themselves are indicative to this .. However there are many questions that linger in my mind ... one of them is, at the start of the war Krishna gives gita upadesh to Arjun where in he relates the truth of circumstances that a person has to live in ... one of the questions that comes to me is .. "Why is it that Arjun who got this wisdom from the Krishna himself was still attached to the death of his son abhimanyu?" I mean he was so grief stricken that he took a vow to kill the person involved by sunset the next day ... how can this action show divine wisdom? the premise being that Arjun got ready to kill his knith and kin after the upadesa? to me this has many implications !! Manoshi, Karma invaribaly has karma phal ... in the example that you gave .. should you turn back to astrology it will tell u that so and so planet caused the dealy in results ,... which turns back to planet has given what you should experience at that stage ... which turns back to the seed being in your own past actions ... The point to note here is it's really no ones fault that you lost your paper or spilled ur ink onto ur answer papers .. at the same time it is probably that this event traces back to ur own past events in non linear time ... Cause and effect can so easily be identified when they appear in linear time .. like if you study hard you get good marks it;s not a surprise ... it's not difficult to correlate .. what is difficult to correlate is events that happen in non linear times from the point of view of consciousness ... actually it probably is unnecessary to worry abotu them maybe Again all this is my arm chair philosophy to try and understand what I get as input to my mind ... I should however remember to gaurd against over analyzing things ... ultimately after allll the muck u understand that the best way to cater to karma is just live your life in a simple and fair manner .. which is what you have been saying to begin with ... but I somehow believe that you should follow somehting that feels right to you and at the same time you should have an understanding of all view points .. that;s when tolerance comes !! --- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not > phal is what one > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal > (karma and not karma- > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts > rarely become doable > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever > studied something > just for the heck of it and without goals such as > 'knowing' > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > So, realistically, there will most often be some > visions of the phal > that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). > And, there is > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing > karma, because, > the real important thing is doing karma and > continuing to do karma. > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the > ideal way, but > better than inactivity! > > RR > > > > > , "Manoshi > Chatterjee" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma > phal.for an example, > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY > or are supposed to > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and > your result is > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma > phal....? So I > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the > results." > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who > knows what is there > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change > a persons > > outlook :-) > > > > --Manoshi > > , surya > vishnubhotla > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > Inder, > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the > same > > > question a couple of months ago .. different > issue > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to > my mind > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in > human > > > population ... can this be one point to think > about? > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to > accept > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont > experience > > > all that you should be experiencing by your > actions .. > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > course of our life. > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every > thing > > > > goes right and > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a > bad > > > > period , even your > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and > you > > > > are physically and > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again > and > > > > again is whether the > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are > the > > > > results of our > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or > bogus. > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to > six > > > > billion in last > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first > time > > > > created > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits > accrued from > > > > the past. > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to > them > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by > random. In > > > > the expanding > > > > universe small particles like our lives are > created > > > > with some random > > > > selection. There may be some > rules/nature/divinity > > > > in such > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have > to > > > > accept the life as > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of > nothingness > > > > only to go back > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > - In , > "Manoshi > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > have > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > > performed > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I > do > > > > believe that what > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > something called > > > > destiny > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God > doesnt > > > > help always...well > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > > strength but then > > > > when > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or > God > > > > exists but its our > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer > us...be it > > > > sorrow or > > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > > -- In , > brijesh > > > > bagga > > > > <brij731> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you > rself > > > > standing > > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the > whole > > > > story of > > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > > learned > > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this > world is > > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Well said .. actually ... each of the points u have spoken about can be talked about individually and the discussion will run into pages .. --- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote: > What I think on karma and phal, is that concious > living and taking > control of self is in reality sprituality. > So when you are doing some work you should be > concious of yourself, > your breathings, your work in hand,the you working > on the job, and > you as divine performing the work. > You can keep phal in some part of your mind, but > thinking and > getting anxious about phal will reduce your > performance and body > energy. > So you have to enjoy the process as well as phal > when it comes. > The enjoyment of phal may be for short duration as > you again shift > your thinking at that point of time. Better to enjoy > enjoy the whole > process. And take cotrol of yourself. > Inder > > In , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not > phal is what > one > > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal > (karma and not > karma- > > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts > rarely become > doable > > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever > studied > something > > just for the heck of it and without goals such as > 'knowing' > > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > > > So, realistically, there will most often be some > visions of the > phal > > that would motivate us to do the hard work > (karma). And, there is > > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while > doing karma, > because, > > the real important thing is doing karma and > continuing to do > karma. > > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the > ideal way, but > > better than inactivity! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "Manoshi > Chatterjee" > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma > phal.for an > example, > > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY > or are supposed > to > > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and > your result is > > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma > phal....? So I > > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the > results." > > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who > knows what is > there > > > in future for me, as RR said experince can > change a persons > > > outlook :-) > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > , surya > vishnubhotla > > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > > Inder, > > > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the > same > > > > question a couple of months ago .. different > issue > > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to > my mind > > > > .. there are millions of other species which > are > > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in > human > > > > population ... can this be one point to think > about? > > > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to > accept > > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not > accept > > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont > experience > > > > all that you should be experiencing by your > actions .. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts > major > > > > > course of our life. > > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times > every thing > > > > > goes right and > > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a > bad > > > > > period , even your > > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you > and you > > > > > are physically and > > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again > and > > > > > again is whether the > > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune > are the > > > > > results of our > > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or > bogus. > > > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion > to six > > > > > billion in last > > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions > first time > > > > > created > > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits > accrued from > > > > > the past. > > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable > to them > > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by > random. In > > > > > the expanding > > > > > universe small particles like our lives are > created > > > > > with some random > > > > > selection. There may be some > rules/nature/divinity > > > > > in such > > > > > randomness but it should not be law of > Karma. > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have > to > > > > > accept the life as > > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of > nothingness > > > > > only to go back > > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > - In , > "Manoshi > > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > > have > > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > > everything according to the karma you > have > > > > > performed > > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes > I do > > > > > believe that what > > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > > something called > > > > > destiny > > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing > "...." > > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God > doesnt > === message truncated === _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Well said ... --- Shad <waterpowers wrote: > > > Dear Tanvir, Inder, Manoshi, Surya and all, > > this was a very nice posting from Tanvir on karma > and fate! > My personal realization in life is that belief in > God without karma > and fate doesn't make sense. It would be blind > belief, a belief > which says 'if I believe in it, it exists, and if I > don't believe in > it, there is nothing'. > > A gruesome God who allows the poor children in > Africa to starve, > although they did not do anything bad in their > lives, or children > who are aborted, before they can really start > living, as there was > no way to be guilty or sinful for anything at that > point, or that > 13Million people starve on this planet while other > people live in > comfort and harmony, such a God is not worth being > called or > worshipped as God, if there is no karma or previous > life. > > Such a God let's us life and die, suffer and enjoy > for His mere > pleasure, without justice or sense in life. > This is the cause why atheists do not believe in > God! If there was a > God, He would not allow such thing to happen, is > their basic > argument. > > But God is merciful, He let's us forget our previous > lifetimes, so > we can start again from the scratch. We may repeat > the grade, he > again and again gives us a new chance. > > How would we life if we remembered each detail of > previous > activities, good and bad?! Many people can hardly > life with what > they have done in this lifetime, what to speak of > memories from > other lifetimes?! > > Karma is no punishment or reward, it is a school > which forms our > consciousness, so that we one day we will be able to > transcend > karma, to go beyond karma and guna. > > A faster way is described in Bhagvat Geeta, given by > God Himself, > Krishna. For me personally it brought much light > into life, and I am > sure it can help many many people. No matter from > which culture, > religion, race, caste a person might come from. > > Karma, the reaction on our activities, forms our > consciousness as > long as we will not understand we are not this body > but a spiritual > soul on his/her path. It forms us as long as we will > not understand > we are not the ones who acts but those who only > desire - God acts. > > As long as we will think we act that long we will > have to take the > karma, bad and good. But if we follow the teachings > of Bhagvat Geeta > we can act beyond karma and guna, act in akarma, > without receiving > material reactions. > Such acting frees us from karma and leads us to > self-realization. > > Best regards, > Shad > > !om namah sivay! > > > > , "Manoshi > Chatterjee" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma > phal.for an example, > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY > or are supposed > to > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and > your result is > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma > phal....? So I > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the > results." > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who > knows what is there > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change > a persons > > outlook :-) > > > > --Manoshi > > , surya > vishnubhotla > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > Inder, > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the > same > > > question a couple of months ago .. different > issue > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to > my mind > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in > human > > > population ... can this be one point to think > about? > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to > accept > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont > experience > > > all that you should be experiencing by your > actions .. > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > course of our life. > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every > thing > > > > goes right and > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a > bad > > > > period , even your > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and > you > > > > are physically and > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again > and > > > > again is whether the > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are > the > > > > results of our > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or > bogus. > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to > six > > > > billion in last > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first > time > > > > created > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits > accrued from > > > > the past. > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to > them > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by > random. In > > > > the expanding > > > > universe small particles like our lives are > created > > > > with some random > > > > selection. There may be some > rules/nature/divinity > > > > in such > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have > to > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 He said not to be attached to karm phal .. I dont see how it interprets as to not have karma phal in focus?? --- Tanvir <ultimate wrote: > If I am correct then Lord Krishna said that we have > no authority over the Karma Phal but authority over > the Karma only. But, did he say not to BELIEVE in > Karma, or did he say not to believe in Karma Phal ? > [As Manoshi Di ?] > > > > What can not happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > Tanvir Chowdhury > Cellular: +88 0189407202 > Mail: lord_narayana > Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com > Forum: > > > - > rohiniranjan > > Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:35 AM > Re: Life is not fair---Surya > > > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not > phal is what one > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal > (karma and not karma- > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts > rarely become doable > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever > studied something > just for the heck of it and without goals such as > 'knowing' > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > So, realistically, there will most often be some > visions of the phal > that would motivate us to do the hard work > (karma). And, there is > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while > doing karma, because, > the real important thing is doing karma and > continuing to do karma. > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the > ideal way, but > better than inactivity! > > RR > > > > > , "Manoshi > Chatterjee" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma > phal.for an example, > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY > or are supposed to > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and > your result is > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma > phal....? So I > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the > results." > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who > knows what is there > > in future for me, as RR said experince can > change a persons > > outlook :-) > > > > --Manoshi > > , surya > vishnubhotla > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > Inder, > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the > same > > > question a couple of months ago .. different > issue > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to > my mind > > > .. there are millions of other species which > are > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in > human > > > population ... can this be one point to think > about? > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to > accept > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not > accept > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont > experience > > > all that you should be experiencing by your > actions .. > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts > major > > > > course of our life. > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times > every thing > > > > goes right and > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a > bad > > > > period , even your > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you > and you > > > > are physically and > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again > and > > > > again is whether the > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune > are the > > > > results of our > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or > bogus. > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion > to six > > > > billion in last > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions > first time > > > > created > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits > accrued from > > > > the past. > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable > to them > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by > random. In > > > > the expanding > > > > universe small particles like our lives are > created > > > > with some random > > > > selection. There may be some > rules/nature/divinity > > > > in such > > > > randomness but it should not be law of > Karma. > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have > to > > > > accept the life as > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of > nothingness > > > > only to go back > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > - In , > "Manoshi > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > have > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > everything according to the karma you > have > > > > performed > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes > I do > > > > believe that what > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > something called > > > > destiny > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing > "...." > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God > doesnt > > > > help always...well > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us > mental > > > > strength but then > > > > when > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or > God > > > > exists but its our > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Actually, focusing on karma(action) and dissociating oneself from the karmaphal (that is not focussing on it too much) is great advice. In many individuals, it takes away or at least reduces, "performance anxiety"! RR , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Good thoughts, > > Just an inclusion of mine though ... it's not that you > should not have karma phal in your mind .. it is that > you should not be attached to whatever phal you get .. > the result should be accepted without resentment ... > > If there is no karma phal in focus then there is no > karma that you can do !! .. even in mahabharata every > event and in many cases Sri krishnas directions > themselves are indicative to this .. > > However there are many questions that linger in my > mind ... one of them is, at the start of the war > Krishna gives gita upadesh to Arjun where in he > relates the truth of circumstances that a person has > to live in ... one of the questions that comes to me > is .. "Why is it that Arjun who got this wisdom from > the Krishna himself was still attached to the death of > his son abhimanyu?" I mean he was so grief stricken > that he took a vow to kill the person involved by > sunset the next day ... how can this action show > divine wisdom? the premise being that Arjun got ready > to kill his knith and kin after the upadesa? to me > this has many implications !! > > Manoshi, Karma invaribaly has karma phal ... in the > example that you gave .. should you turn back to > astrology it will tell u that so and so planet caused > the dealy in results ,... which turns back to planet > has given what you should experience at that stage ... > which turns back to the seed being in your own past > actions ... > The point to note here is it's really no ones fault > that you lost your paper or spilled ur ink onto ur > answer papers .. at the same time it is probably that > this event traces back to ur own past events in non > linear time ... > > Cause and effect can so easily be identified when they > appear in linear time .. like if you study hard you > get good marks it;s not a surprise ... it's not > difficult to correlate .. what is difficult to > correlate is events that happen in non linear times > from the point of view of consciousness ... actually > it probably is unnecessary to worry abotu them maybe > > > Again all this is my arm chair philosophy to try and > understand what I get as input to my mind ... I should > however remember to gaurd against over analyzing > things ... ultimately after allll the muck u > understand that the best way to cater to karma is just > live your life in a simple and fair manner .. which is > what you have been saying to begin with ... but I > somehow believe that you should follow somehting that > feels right to you and at the same time you should > have an understanding of all view points .. that;s > when tolerance comes !! > > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > In Gita, Lord Shri Krishna said that karma and not > > phal is what one > > must focus on. So, your path is certainly ideal > > (karma and not karma- > > phal) however, for most ordinary people, efforts > > rarely become doable > > without a goal or phal. How many have really ever > > studied something > > just for the heck of it and without goals such as > > 'knowing' > > or "occupational promises" etc in mind? > > > > So, realistically, there will most often be some > > visions of the phal > > that would motivate us to do the hard work (karma). > > And, there is > > nothing wrong with having a phal in mind while doing > > karma, because, > > the real important thing is doing karma and > > continuing to do karma. > > If phal becomes the incentive, sure it is not the > > ideal way, but > > better than inactivity! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "Manoshi > > Chatterjee" > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > well Surya, I believe in Karnma but not karma > > phal.for an example, > > > if you prepare well for your exams you GENERALLY > > or are supposed to > > > get good marks but if the papers are lost or and > > your result is > > > withheld or you fail then is it your past karma > > phal....? So I > > > belive in "do your karma, dont think of the > > results." > > > I dont believe in past life or rebirth but who > > knows what is there > > > in future for me, as RR said experince can change > > a persons > > > outlook :-) > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > , surya > > vishnubhotla > > > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > > > Inder, > > > > > > > > I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the > > same > > > > question a couple of months ago .. different > > issue > > > > that no one answered ! > > > > > > > > Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to > > my mind > > > > .. there are millions of other species which are > > > > correspondingly being reduced with increase in > > human > > > > population ... can this be one point to think > > about? > > > > > > > > Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to > > accept > > > > rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept > > > > rebirth because in one single life you dont > > experience > > > > all that you should be experiencing by your > > actions .. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > > > > > course of our life. > > > > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every > > thing > > > > > goes right and > > > > > you get every thing. When you are running a > > bad > > > > > period , even your > > > > > best friends would cause some harm to you and > > you > > > > > are physically and > > > > > emotionally drained. We can see this through > > > > > Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again > > and > > > > > again is whether the > > > > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are > > the > > > > > results of our > > > > > actions in previous births] is authentic or > > bogus. > > > > > > > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to > > six > > > > > billion in last > > > > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first > > time > > > > > created > > > > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits > > accrued from > > > > > the past. > > > > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to > > them > > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by > > random. In > > > > > the expanding > > > > > universe small particles like our lives are > > created > > > > > with some random > > > > > selection. There may be some > > rules/nature/divinity > > > > > in such > > > > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have > > to > > > > > accept the life as > > > > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of > > nothingness > > > > > only to go back > > > > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > - In , > > "Manoshi > > > > > Chatterjee" > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > > > > > beautiful. But as you > > > > > have > > > > > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > > > > > everything according to the karma you have > > > > > performed > > > > > > > in your past births" > > > > > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I > > do > > > > > believe that what > > > > > > has to happen will and there is definitely > > > > > something called > > > > > destiny > > > > > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > > > > > called astrology (we > > > > > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God > > doesnt > > > > > help always...well > > > > > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > > > > > strength but then > > > > > when > > > > > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or > > God > > > > > exists but its our > > > > > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your quote > > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen > > > > > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > > > > > > > > > is so true.... > > > > > > > > > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer > > us...be it > > > > > sorrow or > > > > > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > sneh > > > > > > Manoshi Di > > > > > > -- In , > > brijesh > > > > > bagga > > > > > <brij731> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Its a beautiful article to show you > > rself > > > > > standing > > > > > > > in front of the mirror describing the > > whole > > > > > story of > > > > > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > > > > > learned > > > > > > > people believe is--- To be born in this > > world is > > > > > > > itself a misfortune. > > > > > > > Brijesh > > > > > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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