Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dear Inder, Your question itself has the answer! The very state of having a birth is the level of KARMA associated with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends with a DEATH or mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by any MARTYA soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the second or the nth, the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the cycle of the Birth, hence the Death! SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA which has Birth and no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like devas.It also means that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth neither the death, which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just applicable to RE- BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or the state where they are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak of TAT which is the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH (TADEVA SATYAM) and which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. yours humbly, KAD > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first time born > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this in > modern times as we have census now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dear Inder, Please refer msg 7830 for the explaination(first time born souls) to some extent. Gaurav , "kadrudra" <kadrudra> wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Your question itself has the answer! > The very state of having a birth is the level of KARMA associated > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends with a DEATH or > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by any MARTYA > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the second or the nth, > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the cycle of the Birth, > hence the Death! > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA which has Birth and > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like devas.It also means > that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth neither the death, > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just applicable to RE- > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or the state where they > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak of TAT which is > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH (TADEVA SATYAM) and > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. > > yours humbly, > KAD > > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first time born > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this in > > modern times as we have census now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dear , My point is where is the solid proof of theory of Karma. For five billion first time created souls why small percentage getting born in America where prosperity/consumtion is 200 times more than large percentage born in Africa or other poor region, suffering from chronic povery and mal nutrition. Inder , "kadrudra" <kadrudra> wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Your question itself has the answer! > The very state of having a birth is the level of KARMA associated > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends with a DEATH or > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by any MARTYA > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the second or the nth, > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the cycle of the Birth, > hence the Death! > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA which has Birth and > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like devas.It also means > that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth neither the death, > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just applicable to RE- > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or the state where they > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak of TAT which is > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH (TADEVA SATYAM) and > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. > > yours humbly, > KAD > > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first time born > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this in > > modern times as we have census now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dear Garauv, I read the message. While doing my astrology, what I notice is that what Karma you will perform is clearly indicated in your chart. Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian in some other way. No choice seems to be left. If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he would certainly go after these. And success and failure are for both ... Good people suffer as well as bad people suffer. So what Karma.?? Inder In , "Gaurav Sharma" <gauravkom> wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Please refer msg 7830 for the explaination(first time born souls) to > some extent. > > > Gaurav > > > , "kadrudra" <kadrudra> > wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > The very state of having a birth is the level of KARMA associated > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends with a DEATH or > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by any MARTYA > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the second or the nth, > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the cycle of the > Birth, > > hence the Death! > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA which has Birth and > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like devas.It also means > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth neither the death, > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just applicable to RE- > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or the state where > they > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak of TAT which is > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH (TADEVA SATYAM) and > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. > > > > yours humbly, > > KAD > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first time > born > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this in > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant kingdoms. Any thoughts.? Inder - In , "Inder" <indervohra2001> wrote: > Dear Garauv, > I read the message. > While doing my astrology, what I notice is that what Karma you will > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian in some other way. > No choice seems to be left. > If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he would certainly > go after these. > And success and failure are for both ... Good people suffer as well > as bad people suffer. > So what Karma.?? > Inder > > In , "Gaurav Sharma" > <gauravkom> wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the explaination(first time born souls) > to > > some extent. > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > , "kadrudra" > <kadrudra> > > wrote: > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > The very state of having a birth is the level of KARMA > associated > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends with a DEATH > or > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by any MARTYA > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the second or the > nth, > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the cycle of the > > Birth, > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA which has Birth > and > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like devas.It also > means > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth neither the > death, > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just applicable to > RE- > > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or the state where > > they > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak of TAT which > is > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH (TADEVA SATYAM) > and > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > KAD > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first time > > born > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this > in > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 If karma is supposed to involve conscious thoughts and decisions and acts that are made with some awareness and freedom of will, first we would have to figure out how much of that exists in animals and plants and maybe in some plants or animals more than in others ... etc etc. Perhaps someone who has personal knowledge (probably remember their animal or plant lifetimes!) can tell us. This would also address the issue about whether humans were plants once! RR , "Inder" <indervohra2001> wrote: > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant kingdoms. > Any thoughts.? > Inder > > - In , "Inder" <indervohra2001> > wrote: > > Dear Garauv, > > I read the message. > > While doing my astrology, what I notice is that what Karma you > will > > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > > Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian in some other > way. > > No choice seems to be left. > > If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he would certainly > > go after these. > > And success and failure are for both ... Good people suffer as > well > > as bad people suffer. > > So what Karma.?? > > Inder > > > > In , "Gaurav Sharma" > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the explaination(first time born > souls) > > to > > > some extent. > > > > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > > , "kadrudra" > > <kadrudra> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > > The very state of having a birth is the level of KARMA > > associated > > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends with a DEATH > > or > > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by any MARTYA > > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the second or the > > nth, > > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the cycle of the > > > Birth, > > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA which has > Birth > > and > > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like devas.It also > > means > > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth neither the > > death, > > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just applicable > to > > RE- > > > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or the state > where > > > they > > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak of TAT > which > > is > > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH (TADEVA SATYAM) > > and > > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first > time > > > born > > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this > > in > > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Theory of karma might not be applicable to plants and animals as they dont have that much developed brains to understand the existance of god and recite gods name. Brijesh --- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote: > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant > kingdoms. > Any thoughts.? > Inder > > - In , "Inder" > <indervohra2001> > wrote: > > Dear Garauv, > > I read the message. > > While doing my astrology, what I notice is that > what Karma you > will > > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > > Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian > in some other > way. > > No choice seems to be left. > > If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he > would certainly > > go after these. > > And success and failure are for both ... Good > people suffer as > well > > as bad people suffer. > > So what Karma.?? > > Inder > > > > In , "Gaurav > Sharma" > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the explaination(first > time born > souls) > > to > > > some extent. > > > > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > > , > "kadrudra" > > <kadrudra> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > > The very state of having a birth is the level > of KARMA > > associated > > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it > ends with a DEATH > > or > > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained > by any MARTYA > > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or > the second or the > > nth, > > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in > the cycle of the > > > Birth, > > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of > KARMA which has > Birth > > and > > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul > like devas.It also > > means > > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no > birth neither the > > death, > > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not > just applicable > to > > RE- > > > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence > or the state > where > > > they > > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts > speak of TAT > which > > is > > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH > (TADEVA SATYAM) > > and > > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing > else. > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma > applicable to first > time > > > born > > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of > them, we know this > > in > > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Brijesh, Would this mean that atheists (do not believe in God and religion) do not have karma? RR , brijesh bagga <brij731> wrote: > Theory of karma might not be applicable to plants and > animals as they dont have that much developed brains > to understand the existance of god and recite gods > name. > Brijesh > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant > > kingdoms. > > Any thoughts.? > > Inder > > > > - In , "Inder" > > <indervohra2001> > > wrote: > > > Dear Garauv, > > > I read the message. > > > While doing my astrology, what I notice is that > > what Karma you > > will > > > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > > > Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian > > in some other > > way. > > > No choice seems to be left. > > > If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he > > would certainly > > > go after these. > > > And success and failure are for both ... Good > > people suffer as > > well > > > as bad people suffer. > > > So what Karma.?? > > > Inder > > > > > > In , "Gaurav > > Sharma" > > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the explaination(first > > time born > > souls) > > > to > > > > some extent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > "kadrudra" > > > <kadrudra> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > > > The very state of having a birth is the level > > of KARMA > > > associated > > > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it > > ends with a DEATH > > > or > > > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained > > by any MARTYA > > > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or > > the second or the > > > nth, > > > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in > > the cycle of the > > > > Birth, > > > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of > > KARMA which has > > Birth > > > and > > > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul > > like devas.It also > > > means > > > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no > > birth neither the > > > death, > > > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not > > just applicable > > to > > > RE- > > > > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence > > or the state > > where > > > > they > > > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts > > speak of TAT > > which > > > is > > > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH > > (TADEVA SATYAM) > > > and > > > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing > > else. > > > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma > > applicable to first > > time > > > > born > > > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of > > them, we know this > > > in > > > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Atheists do have karma just because of their past karmas they have attained this goal the true realization of the supreme and self. --- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: > Brijesh, > > Would this mean that atheists (do not believe in God > and religion) do > not have karma? > > RR > > , brijesh > bagga <brij731> > wrote: > > Theory of karma might not be applicable to plants > and > > animals as they dont have that much developed > brains > > to understand the existance of god and recite gods > > name. > > Brijesh > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant > > > kingdoms. > > > Any thoughts.? > > > Inder > > > > > > - In , "Inder" > > > <indervohra2001> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Garauv, > > > > I read the message. > > > > While doing my astrology, what I notice is > that > > > what Karma you > > > will > > > > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > > > > Jupitarian will behave differently and > Saturanian > > > in some other > > > way. > > > > No choice seems to be left. > > > > If in a chart criminal activity are > indicated, he > > > would certainly > > > > go after these. > > > > And success and failure are for both ... Good > > > people suffer as > > > well > > > > as bad people suffer. > > > > So what Karma.?? > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > In , "Gaurav > > > Sharma" > > > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the > explaination(first > > > time born > > > souls) > > > > to > > > > > some extent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > "kadrudra" > > > > <kadrudra> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > > > > The very state of having a birth is the > level > > > of KARMA > > > > associated > > > > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that > it > > > ends with a DEATH > > > > or > > > > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA > obtained > > > by any MARTYA > > > > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first > or > > > the second or the > > > > nth, > > > > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is > in > > > the cycle of the > > > > > Birth, > > > > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of > > > KARMA which has > > > Birth > > > > and > > > > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul > > > like devas.It also > > > > means > > > > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has > no > > > birth neither the > > > > death, > > > > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is > not > > > just applicable > > > to > > > > RE- > > > > > > BIRTH but even for existence or > non-existence > > > or the state > > > where > > > > > they > > > > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik > texts > > > speak of TAT > > > which > > > > is > > > > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the > TRUTH > > > (TADEVA SATYAM) > > > > and > > > > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and > nothing > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma > > > applicable to first > > > time > > > > > born > > > > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty > of > > > them, we know this > > > > in > > > > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We > finish. > > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Hi Inder and others, here's a story from online that's a little touching, and it makes me think a little about the same question. It's not like we'll know her reason for doing that....but, I would like to think she did it out of love and that she knew what she was doing. Where is a pet psychic when you need one Angela http://www.adkhs.org/catstory.htm , "Inder" <indervohra2001> wrote: > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant kingdoms. > Any thoughts.? > Inder > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 So can you please explain to me what does it imply? If we all are performing the pre planned actions we are supposed to perform, then it must mean that we are carrying something from some past, [Past of birth] that is leading us to all these. This automatically proves that there is rebirth and karma. Otherwise, if there is no rebirth or past births but we still are doing all the fixed karmas, then it means that God is the most unfair entity that forces us to do Karmas of HIS WISH but punishes us for that. So how come one sees the fixed karmas but can not see the rebirth and karma? Thanks, Tanvir. What can not happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. Tanvir Chowdhury Cellular: +88 0189407202 Mail: lord_narayana Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com Forum: - Inder Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:18 AM Re: Life is not fair---Inder Dear Garauv, I read the message. While doing my astrology, what I notice is that what Karma you will perform is clearly indicated in your chart. Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian in some other way. No choice seems to be left. If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he would certainly go after these. And success and failure are for both ... Good people suffer as well as bad people suffer. So what Karma.?? Inder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Some new-age spiritualists go one better. They say the we have divinity within ourselves and so are punishing ourselves :-) Some of the discussions on internet sure sound to be that way (not this one, I hasten to add!) RR , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...> wrote: > So can you please explain to me what does it imply? If we all are performing the pre planned actions we are supposed to perform, then it must mean that we are carrying something from some past, [Past of birth] that is leading us to all these. This automatically proves that there is rebirth and karma. Otherwise, if there is no rebirth or past births but we still are doing all the fixed karmas, then it means that God is the most unfair entity that forces us to do Karmas of HIS WISH but punishes us for that. > > So how come one sees the fixed karmas but can not see the rebirth and karma? > > Thanks, > Tanvir. > > > > What can not happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > Tanvir Chowdhury > Cellular: +88 0189407202 > Mail: lord_narayana@l... > Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com > Forum: > > - > Inder > > Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:18 AM > Re: Life is not fair---Inder > > > Dear Garauv, > I read the message. > While doing my astrology, what I notice is that what Karma you will > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian in some other way. > No choice seems to be left. > If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he would certainly > go after these. > And success and failure are for both ... Good people suffer as well > as bad people suffer. > So what Karma.?? > Inder > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 The solid proof is supposed to be jyotish !! --- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote: > Dear , > My point is where is the solid proof of theory of > Karma. > > For five billion first time created souls why small > percentage > getting born in America where prosperity/consumtion > is 200 times > more than large percentage born in Africa or other > poor region, > suffering from chronic povery and mal nutrition. > > Inder > > , "kadrudra" > <kadrudra> > wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > The very state of having a birth is the level of > KARMA associated > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends > with a DEATH or > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by > any MARTYA > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the > second or the > nth, > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the > cycle of the > Birth, > > hence the Death! > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA > which has Birth > and > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like > devas.It also > means > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth > neither the > death, > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just > applicable to RE- > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or > the state where > they > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak > of TAT which is > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH > (TADEVA SATYAM) and > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. > > > > yours humbly, > > KAD > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable > to first time > born > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, > we know this in > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Very difficult to talk about this from our stand point .... but as I look at it ... god simply created the universe (say for arguments sake lets believe he is there in whatever form -- I) ... if he did then there should have been a reason .. let's say that is the guiding factor of the universe .. now he surely didnt create planet earth with specific design ... he just created the universe with an intent .. and earth was created to satisfy that intent ... On earth these little molecules decided that they should come together to create life, the molecules may again be guided by that intent ... and everthing that the molecules did from then on and the results were their own responsibility .. god only has the intent sent forth ... if one carbon based biped decides to kill someone it is purely his choice to do .. and he will have to face the consequences of that event inevitably ... if he fails to face the consequences in tis birth .. he will in in next birth ... from that point of view maybe all beings are subjected to karma ... like they are to gravitation .. one being tangible and other not being tangible .. Gravitation itself existed since creation ... no one wondered about it till newton who brought it into focus after he wondered .. so it will be stupid to say that gravitation was invented by newton and was not ther before him !! .. similarly I suspect there are laws that we do not know of as yet which might be operational ... newton wondered for 10 years before he came with gravitation .. maybe we shold be willing to struggle to identify these laws for ourselves ... there are many people in the past who have done this struggle and got the answeres... only once they find it by some strange inertia they seem to decide that everyone has to find these laws for themselves ... in the process however they have left guidelines to help other people who are not happy with their 9-4 routine with a good family (or the lack of it) ... To share a naive wonderment I used to have a long time ago ... chemistry says that atoms come together to form molecules because molecules are more stable than atoms ... so by natural laws every thing is inclined to go towards a more stable state ... does this mean that life is more stable than lack of it??? since molecules decided to come to live?? in what way are we more stable?? or is it the intent of some law that we should live and all is not just chemistry?? Maybe everything follows karma .. or maybe things are here by intent .. what is our role either by karma or by divine intent??? let me muse on my questions over a coffee ... and leave u in peace for now --- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote: > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant > kingdoms. > Any thoughts.? > Inder > > - In , "Inder" > <indervohra2001> > wrote: > > Dear Garauv, > > I read the message. > > While doing my astrology, what I notice is that > what Karma you > will > > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > > Jupitarian will behave differently and Saturanian > in some other > way. > > No choice seems to be left. > > If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, he > would certainly > > go after these. > > And success and failure are for both ... Good > people suffer as > well > > as bad people suffer. > > So what Karma.?? > > Inder > > > > In , "Gaurav > Sharma" > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the explaination(first > time born > souls) > > to > > > some extent. > > > > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > > , > "kadrudra" > > <kadrudra> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > > The very state of having a birth is the level > of KARMA > > associated > > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it > ends with a DEATH > > or > > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained > by any MARTYA > > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or > the second or the > > nth, > > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in > the cycle of the > > > Birth, > > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of > KARMA which has > Birth > > and > > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul > like devas.It also > > means > > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no > birth neither the > > death, > > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not > just applicable > to > > RE- > > > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence > or the state > where > > > they > > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts > speak of TAT > which > > is > > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH > (TADEVA SATYAM) > > and > > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing > else. > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma > applicable to first > time > > > born > > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of > them, we know this > > in > > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 I believe karma has nothing to do with being able to recognizing god or gods name .. please dont confuse brain with consciousness .. it;s a riddle no one has been able to solve so far .. if you look at it each cell behaves in such a way that it has a brain of its own ... without the intervention of brain to guide them (in which case each brain probably will have to be the size of earth itself ) --- brijesh bagga <brij731 wrote: > Theory of karma might not be applicable to plants > and > animals as they dont have that much developed brains > to understand the existance of god and recite gods > name. > Brijesh > --- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote: > > > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant > > kingdoms. > > Any thoughts.? > > Inder > > > > - In , "Inder" > > <indervohra2001> > > wrote: > > > Dear Garauv, > > > I read the message. > > > While doing my astrology, what I notice is that > > what Karma you > > will > > > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > > > Jupitarian will behave differently and > Saturanian > > in some other > > way. > > > No choice seems to be left. > > > If in a chart criminal activity are indicated, > he > > would certainly > > > go after these. > > > And success and failure are for both ... Good > > people suffer as > > well > > > as bad people suffer. > > > So what Karma.?? > > > Inder > > > > > > In , "Gaurav > > Sharma" > > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the > explaination(first > > time born > > souls) > > > to > > > > some extent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > "kadrudra" > > > <kadrudra> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > > > The very state of having a birth is the > level > > of KARMA > > > associated > > > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it > > ends with a DEATH > > > or > > > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained > > by any MARTYA > > > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or > > the second or the > > > nth, > > > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is > in > > the cycle of the > > > > Birth, > > > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of > > KARMA which has > > Birth > > > and > > > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul > > like devas.It also > > > means > > > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no > > birth neither the > > > death, > > > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not > > just applicable > > to > > > RE- > > > > > BIRTH but even for existence or > non-existence > > or the state > > where > > > > they > > > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts > > speak of TAT > > which > > > is > > > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the > TRUTH > > (TADEVA SATYAM) > > > and > > > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing > > else. > > > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma > > applicable to first > > time > > > > born > > > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of > > them, we know this > > > in > > > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We > finish. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Good Question !! I was about to ask a similar question ... however this suffices !! --- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: > Brijesh, > > Would this mean that atheists (do not believe in God > and religion) do > not have karma? > > RR > > , brijesh > bagga <brij731> > wrote: > > Theory of karma might not be applicable to plants > and > > animals as they dont have that much developed > brains > > to understand the existance of god and recite gods > > name. > > Brijesh > > --- Inder <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > Is theory of Karma applicable to animal or plant > > > kingdoms. > > > Any thoughts.? > > > Inder > > > > > > - In , "Inder" > > > <indervohra2001> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Garauv, > > > > I read the message. > > > > While doing my astrology, what I notice is > that > > > what Karma you > > > will > > > > perform is clearly indicated in your chart. > > > > Jupitarian will behave differently and > Saturanian > > > in some other > > > way. > > > > No choice seems to be left. > > > > If in a chart criminal activity are > indicated, he > > > would certainly > > > > go after these. > > > > And success and failure are for both ... Good > > > people suffer as > > > well > > > > as bad people suffer. > > > > So what Karma.?? > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > In , "Gaurav > > > Sharma" > > > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > Please refer msg 7830 for the > explaination(first > > > time born > > > souls) > > > > to > > > > > some extent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > "kadrudra" > > > > <kadrudra> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > > > > > The very state of having a birth is the > level > > > of KARMA > > > > associated > > > > > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that > it > > > ends with a DEATH > > > > or > > > > > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA > obtained > > > by any MARTYA > > > > > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first > or > > > the second or the > > > > nth, > > > > > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is > in > > > the cycle of the > > > > > Birth, > > > > > > hence the Death! > > > > > > > > > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of > > > KARMA which has > > > Birth > > > > and > > > > > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul > > > like devas.It also > > > > means > > > > > > that there is a state of KARMA which has > no > > > birth neither the > > > > death, > > > > > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is > not > > > just applicable > > > to > > > > RE- > > > > > > BIRTH but even for existence or > non-existence > > > or the state > > > where > > > > > they > > > > > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik > texts > > > speak of TAT > > > which > > > > is > > > > > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the > TRUTH > > > (TADEVA SATYAM) > > > > and > > > > > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and > nothing > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma > > > applicable to first > > > time > > > > > born > > > > > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty > of > > > them, we know this > > > > in > > > > > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We > finish. > > > > _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 my view : same to surya ji, actually it is jyotish itself that led me to believe hinduism, rebirth, karma etc... otherwise my thirst to find the truth about our lives would always remain. What can not happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. Tanvir Chowdhury Cellular: +88 0189407202 Mail: lord_narayana Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com Forum: - surya vishnubhotla Monday, September 27, 2004 1:19 PM Re: Life is not fair---Inder The solid proof is supposed to be jyotish !! --- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote: > Dear , > My point is where is the solid proof of theory of > Karma. > > For five billion first time created souls why small > percentage > getting born in America where prosperity/consumtion > is 200 times > more than large percentage born in Africa or other > poor region, > suffering from chronic povery and mal nutrition. > > Inder > > , "kadrudra" > <kadrudra> > wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > > > Your question itself has the answer! > > The very state of having a birth is the level of > KARMA associated > > with that soul! Having a BIRTH means that it ends > with a DEATH or > > mrityu, which is the state of KARMA obtained by > any MARTYA > > soul.Whether its incarnation is the first or the > second or the > nth, > > the NUMBER doesnot matter as long as it is in the > cycle of the > Birth, > > hence the Death! > > > > SO it is obvious that there is a state of KARMA > which has Birth > and > > no death which corresponds to AMARTYA soul like > devas.It also > means > > that there is a state of KARMA which has no birth > neither the > death, > > which is goal of all souls! So, Karma is not just > applicable to RE- > > BIRTH but even for existence or non-existence or > the state where > they > > are same known as TAT. So all Vedantik texts speak > of TAT which is > > the TRUTH(TAT SATYAM), which only is the TRUTH > (TADEVA SATYAM) and > > which is YOURSELF!(TAT TVAM ASI) and nothing else. > > > > yours humbly, > > KAD > > > > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable > to first time > born > > > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, > we know this in > > > modern times as we have census now. > > > > > Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard. ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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