Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Dear friends, Sorry to post this (Sorry! Tanvir) Totally non astrological but astrology inspired me to write this. How does astrology help us? It gives us the HOPE. and thats how we live looking forward to the future . Remedies work or not but that Hope helps us to live or we would stop living. "kal ke kisi ummeed par ki kahin na kahin kuchh hoga jeete hain aaj ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho dabaa lete hain ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, 'kal'hoga woh din aaj nahin tho kya kal zaroor hoga, kal woh jo socha tha sach hoga kal aur bas yun hi guzartee hai zindagee isee kal ki ummeed par ki vaqt ka kya hai woh tho guzarta hai ummeed ki doree se lipat guzar jayega ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath chupchap apne mein dabaaye woh aag bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe isee kal ki ummeed mein ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." --Manoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yes dear , we should always hope for the best, but, prepare for the worst. Inder , "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> wrote: > Dear friends, > Sorry to post this (Sorry! Tanvir) Totally non astrological but > astrology inspired me to write this. How does astrology help us? It > gives us the HOPE. and thats how we live looking forward to the > future . Remedies work or not but that Hope helps us to live or we > would stop living. > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > ki kahin na kahin > kuchh hoga > jeete hain aaj > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > dabaa lete hain > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > 'kal'hoga woh din > aaj nahin tho kya > kal zaroor hoga, > kal woh jo socha tha > sach hoga kal > aur bas yun hi > guzartee hai zindagee > isee kal ki ummeed par > ki vaqt ka kya hai > woh tho guzarta hai > ummeed ki doree se lipat > guzar jayega > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > woh aag > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > isee kal ki ummeed mein > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > --Manoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Hope is a vail to knowledge. Hope is a cloud to awakening. Hope denies us from our total commitment to the present, it postpones our understanding of our difficulties or joys. Hope tells us « You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you will», it maintains our narrow vision of life. Hope doesn't link us to God, even if faith is there, Hope will only cristalize our ignorance about our denial of own responsability towards moksha. Without hope you will get closer to the urgency of doing. - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Monday, August 16, 2004 11:33 PM Hope > Dear friends, > Sorry to post this (Sorry! Tanvir) Totally non astrological but > astrology inspired me to write this. How does astrology help us? It > gives us the HOPE. and thats how we live looking forward to the > future . Remedies work or not but that Hope helps us to live or we > would stop living. > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > ki kahin na kahin > kuchh hoga > jeete hain aaj > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > dabaa lete hain > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > 'kal'hoga woh din > aaj nahin tho kya > kal zaroor hoga, > kal woh jo socha tha > sach hoga kal > aur bas yun hi > guzartee hai zindagee > isee kal ki ummeed par > ki vaqt ka kya hai > woh tho guzarta hai > ummeed ki doree se lipat > guzar jayega > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > woh aag > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > isee kal ki ummeed mein > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > --Manoshi > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Without hope how can knowledge survive? Hope leads the path to awakening. Hope helps us to work in the present looking forward to the future. It gives solace and helps to overcome the difficult times. Hope tells<<You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you will>>,...that helps us to live the life. Do your karma, dont think about the fruit or moksha if you really want to achieve it. Cut off hope from your life and you be a dead person. Without Hope you cannot do anything, no discoveries would be made. , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Hope is a vail to knowledge. > Hope is a cloud to awakening. > Hope denies us from our total commitment to the present, it postpones our > understanding of our difficulties or joys. > Hope tells us « You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you > will», it maintains our narrow vision of life. > Hope doesn't link us to God, even if faith is there, Hope will only > cristalize our ignorance about our denial of own responsability towards > moksha. > Without hope you will get closer to the urgency of doing. > > - > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > <> > Monday, August 16, 2004 11:33 PM > Hope > > > > Dear friends, > > Sorry to post this (Sorry! Tanvir) Totally non astrological but > > astrology inspired me to write this. How does astrology help us? It > > gives us the HOPE. and thats how we live looking forward to the > > future . Remedies work or not but that Hope helps us to live or we > > would stop living. > > > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > > ki kahin na kahin > > kuchh hoga > > jeete hain aaj > > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > > dabaa lete hain > > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > > 'kal'hoga woh din > > aaj nahin tho kya > > kal zaroor hoga, > > kal woh jo socha tha > > sach hoga kal > > aur bas yun hi > > guzartee hai zindagee > > isee kal ki ummeed par > > ki vaqt ka kya hai > > woh tho guzarta hai > > ummeed ki doree se lipat > > guzar jayega > > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > > woh aag > > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > > isee kal ki ummeed mein > > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear Manoshi, you wrote: Without hope how can knowledge survive? - By verifying knowledge through experience and not through believes. Hope leads the path to awakening. - Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening. Hope puts you asleep. Hope helps us to work in the present looking forward to the future. - As soon as you look forward to the future you deny the gift that God made you of the present. Future doesn't exist, present does. It gives solace and helps to overcome the difficult times. - Action and awareness in the present help to overcome difficulties, hope make you think that one day it will be over and takes you away from action in the present. Hope tells<<You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you will>>,...that helps us to live the life. - No, it helps us to maintain ignorance about the reasons of our sufferings. Do your karma, dont think about the fruit or moksha if you really want to achieve it. Cut off hope from your life and you be a dead person. - It kills the ego, not the Self, not life. Without Hope you cannot do anything, no discoveries would be made. - Creative intelligence discovers, hope only dreams about discoveries. , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Hope is a vail to knowledge. > Hope is a cloud to awakening. > Hope denies us from our total commitment to the present, it postpones our > understanding of our difficulties or joys. > Hope tells us « You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you > will», it maintains our narrow vision of life. > Hope doesn't link us to God, even if faith is there, Hope will only > cristalize our ignorance about our denial of own responsability towards > moksha. > Without hope you will get closer to the urgency of doing. > > - > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > <> > Monday, August 16, 2004 11:33 PM > Hope > > > > Dear friends, > > Sorry to post this (Sorry! Tanvir) Totally non astrological but > > astrology inspired me to write this. How does astrology help us? It > > gives us the HOPE. and thats how we live looking forward to the > > future . Remedies work or not but that Hope helps us to live or we > > would stop living. > > > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > > ki kahin na kahin > > kuchh hoga > > jeete hain aaj > > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > > dabaa lete hain > > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > > 'kal'hoga woh din > > aaj nahin tho kya > > kal zaroor hoga, > > kal woh jo socha tha > > sach hoga kal > > aur bas yun hi > > guzartee hai zindagee > > isee kal ki ummeed par > > ki vaqt ka kya hai > > woh tho guzarta hai > > ummeed ki doree se lipat > > guzar jayega > > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > > woh aag > > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > > isee kal ki ummeed mein > > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear Yves, Well, I did not address it to you as your message was not addressed to anyone in specific. So basically, it was not exactly a reply to YOUR mail but my opinion. Opinions vary and I respect that. I am on my vacation so I have much time to reply to these mails :-) you wrote: > Without hope how can knowledge survive? >By verifying knowledge through experience and not through believes. -Yes by verifying knowledge by experience with the hope of getting positive result. > Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening. Hope puts you asleep. -Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening.True, but Hope keeps you awake or without hope you sleep in the ego of so-called achievement. > As soon as you look forward to the future you deny the gift that God made you of the present. Future doesn't exist, present does. - No one denies the present. It's the attitude how one looks at it. Looking forward to the future helps building it , helps beautifying the present which results in a beautiful future. > Action and awareness in the present help to overcome difficulties, hope make you think that one day it will be over and takes you away from action in the present. - Hope helps to overcome the difficulties making one realize that you have to act in the present and then you would get positive result. >Hope tells<<You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you will>>,...that helps us to live the life. No, it helps us to maintain ignorance about the reasons of our sufferings. -No. Hope makes us forget the past sufferings and live the life to the fullest. > Do your karma, dont think about the fruit or moksha if you really > want to achieve it. Cut off hope from your life and you be a dead > person. It kills the ego, not the Self, not life. -if it kills Ego, its an achievement. > Creative intelligence discovers, hope only dreams about discoveries. -Hope of reaching the goal makes one think, utilize the intelligence leading to discoveries. Hope helped Columbus discovering a new world. --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Dear Manoshi, > > you wrote: > Without hope how can knowledge survive? > - By verifying knowledge through experience and not through believes. > > Hope leads the path to awakening. > - Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening. Hope puts you asleep. > > Hope helps us to work in the present looking forward to the future. > - As soon as you look forward to the future you deny the gift that God made you of the present. Future doesn't exist, present does. > > It gives solace and helps to overcome the difficult times. > - Action and awareness in the present help to overcome difficulties, hope make you think that one day it will be over and takes you away from action in the present. > > Hope tells<<You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you > will>>,...that helps us to live the life. > - No, it helps us to maintain ignorance about the reasons of our sufferings. > > Do your karma, dont think about the fruit or moksha if you really > want to achieve it. Cut off hope from your life and you be a dead > person. > - It kills the ego, not the Self, not life. > > Without Hope you cannot do anything, no discoveries would be made. > - Creative intelligence discovers, hope only dreams about discoveries. > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Hope is a vail to knowledge. > > Hope is a cloud to awakening. > > Hope denies us from our total commitment to the present, it > postpones our > > understanding of our difficulties or joys. > > Hope tells us « You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one > day you > > will», it maintains our narrow vision of life. > > Hope doesn't link us to God, even if faith is there, Hope will only > > cristalize our ignorance about our denial of own responsability > towards > > moksha. > > Without hope you will get closer to the urgency of doing. > > > > - > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > <> > > Monday, August 16, 2004 11:33 PM > > Hope > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > Sorry to post this (Sorry! Tanvir) Totally non astrological but > > > astrology inspired me to write this. How does astrology help us? > It > > > gives us the HOPE. and thats how we live looking forward to the > > > future . Remedies work or not but that Hope helps us to live or > we > > > would stop living. > > > > > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > > > ki kahin na kahin > > > kuchh hoga > > > jeete hain aaj > > > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > > > dabaa lete hain > > > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > > > 'kal'hoga woh din > > > aaj nahin tho kya > > > kal zaroor hoga, > > > kal woh jo socha tha > > > sach hoga kal > > > aur bas yun hi > > > guzartee hai zindagee > > > isee kal ki ummeed par > > > ki vaqt ka kya hai > > > woh tho guzarta hai > > > ummeed ki doree se lipat > > > guzar jayega > > > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > > > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > > > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > > > woh aag > > > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > > > isee kal ki ummeed mein > > > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear Manoshi, for occupying your vacation time... you wrote: > Without hope how can knowledge survive? >By verifying knowledge through experience and not through believes. -Yes by verifying knowledge by experience with the hope of getting positive result. -No, only with integrity, if you experience with hope, you might see or imagine results that would have to fit your hopes and therefore you risk to lack of objectivity. > Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening. Hope puts you asleep. -Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening.True, but Hope keeps you awake or without hope you sleep in the ego of so-called achievement. -Hope doesn't keep you awake, it keeps you waiting and waiting and waiting...because you hope you think «it will come», but what if the basis of your experience is wrong! Because of the hope unstead of trying something else you will spend years, or lives waiting and hoping, unstead of being creative in your search for final liberation. > As soon as you look forward to the future you deny the gift that God made you of the present. Future doesn't exist, present does. - No one denies the present. It's the attitude how one looks at it. Looking forward to the future helps building it , helps beautifying the present which results in a beautiful future. -You don't need to look at the future to make the present beautiful, just look at the present! The rest will be a byproduct of the present, you don't even need to think about it, unless you need to withdraw from the present. > Action and awareness in the present help to overcome difficulties, hope make you think that one day it will be over and takes you away from action in the present. - Hope helps to overcome the difficulties making one realize that you have to act in the present and then you would get positive result. - You are stetching way too much here, please keep some rigourousness in your speach otherwise we won't go anywhere. Hope has nothing to do with intellectual analysis that can make you realize something, it is an emotional state wishing that better times will come, or good times will remain. >Hope tells<<You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day you will>>,...that helps us to live the life. No, it helps us to maintain ignorance about the reasons of our sufferings. -No. Hope makes us forget the past sufferings and live the life to the fullest. - Yes, it helps you to forget the past. But, it doesn't eradicate the source of the sufferings that make you wish to forget the past. So you might forget the past with Hope but you will redo the same mistakes and stay in the same vicious circle of sufferings. HOPE is not an active remedial measure, it is a weak plaster that can keep you barely from bleeding. > Do your karma, dont think about the fruit or moksha if you really > want to achieve it. Cut off hope from your life and you be a dead > person. ( This is contradictive as a statement. On one hand you say that we should not think about moksha and on the other hand you say we should not think about it to acheive it. Not thinking about it, is doing something). It kills the ego, not the Self, not life. -if it kills Ego, its an achievement. - No it is a side effect of a clear state of consciousness. > Creative intelligence discovers, hope only dreams about discoveries. -Hope of reaching the goal makes one think, utilize the intelligence leading to discoveries. Hope helped Columbus discovering a new world. - Hope = Creative Intelligence...wrong math Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring them food. Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't create world peace. Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it doesn't create the cure. All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are coming from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear Yves, you said: >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring them food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't create world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it doesn't create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are coming from that.<<<< This hope of millions of people for food make them work to get the food. Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. Thousands of people hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, those who do not hope for peace dont work towards it.That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but working too. As human beings can we not even hope for the best for people, for mankind ?The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop hoping wellbeing for their patients no one would visit the doctor. Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How can we be so crude ? --Manoshi p.s.This was my last reply to this thread. If you prefer to 'live(???)' without hope...its your wish, all the best :-) BTW I wonder if you really understood the poem that I wrote. Can you follow Hindi? , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Dear Manoshi, > > for occupying your vacation time... > > you wrote: > > Without hope how can knowledge survive? > >By verifying knowledge through experience and not through believes. > -Yes by verifying knowledge by experience with the hope of getting > positive result. > > -No, only with integrity, if you experience with hope, you might see or imagine results that would have to fit your hopes and therefore you risk to lack of objectivity. > > > Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening. Hope puts you > asleep. > -Experience of knowledge leads the path to awakening.True, but Hope > keeps you awake or without hope you sleep in the ego of so-called > achievement. > > -Hope doesn't keep you awake, it keeps you waiting and waiting and waiting...because you hope you think «it will come», but what if the basis of your experience is wrong! Because of the hope unstead of trying something else you will spend years, or lives waiting and hoping, unstead of being creative in your search for final liberation. > > > As soon as you look forward to the future you deny the gift that > God made you of the present. Future doesn't exist, present does. > - No one denies the present. It's the attitude how one looks at it. > Looking forward to the future helps building it , helps beautifying > the present which results in a beautiful future. > > -You don't need to look at the future to make the present beautiful, just look at the present! The rest will be a byproduct of the present, you don't even need to think about it, unless you need to withdraw from the present. > > > Action and awareness in the present help to overcome difficulties, > hope make you think that one day it will be over and takes you away > from action in the present. > - Hope helps to overcome the difficulties making one realize that > you have to act in the present and then you would get positive > result. > > - You are stetching way too much here, please keep some rigourousness in your speach otherwise we won't go anywhere. Hope has nothing to do with intellectual analysis that can make you realize something, it is an emotional state wishing that better times will come, or good times will remain. > > >Hope tells<<You don't get it, but it doesn't matter maybe one day > you will>>,...that helps us to live the life. > No, it helps us to maintain ignorance about the reasons of our > sufferings. > -No. Hope makes us forget the past sufferings and live the life to > the fullest. > - Yes, it helps you to forget the past. But, it doesn't eradicate the source of the sufferings that make you wish to forget the past. So you might forget the past with Hope but you will redo the same mistakes and stay in the same vicious circle of sufferings. HOPE is not an active remedial measure, it is a weak plaster that can keep you barely from bleeding. > > > Do your karma, dont think about the fruit or moksha if you really > > want to achieve it. Cut off hope from your life and you be a dead > > person. ( This is contradictive as a statement. On one hand you say that we should not think about moksha and on the other hand you say we should not think about it to acheive it. Not thinking about it, is doing something). > It kills the ego, not the Self, not life. > -if it kills Ego, its an achievement. > - No it is a side effect of a clear state of consciousness. > > > Creative intelligence discovers, hope only dreams about > discoveries. > -Hope of reaching the goal makes one think, utilize the intelligence > leading to discoveries. Hope helped Columbus discovering a new world. > - Hope = Creative Intelligence...wrong math > > Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring them food. > Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't create world peace. > Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it doesn't create the cure. > All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are coming from that. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 My very dear Manoshi, >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring them food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't create world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it doesn't create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are coming from that.<<<< This hope of millions of people for food make them work to get the food. -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross in countries in Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping that the next load will come... Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? - You! Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. Thousands of people hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, those who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not come. They have no hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. Their goal is not wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. They are not wishful thinker, they are realistic doers. That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for tuberculosis. - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting something done that makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the millions of people sick around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It is the personnal motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, greed( a lot of money is involved in that), etc. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but working too. - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. As human beings can we not even hope for the best for people, for mankind ? - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't realize anything. The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop hoping wellbeing for their patients no one would visit the doctor. - It is the known results of the application of the medications that make people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at home and pray. Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How can we be so crude ? - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for a short while, but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things that have to be done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you prefer to live amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. Hoping is an emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may have been influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but it is a choice that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away from REALITY from your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about hope. Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE it. Have a great day. At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 My very dear Yves, >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? - You!<<< LOL --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > My very dear Manoshi, > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring them > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't create > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it doesn't > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are > coming from that.<<<< > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to get the > food. > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross in countries in > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping that the next load > will come... > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > - You! > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. Thousands of people > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, those > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not come. They have no > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. Their goal is not > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. They are not wishful > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did > for > tuberculosis. > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting something done that > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the millions of people sick > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It is the personnal > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, greed( a lot of money > is involved in that), etc. > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > working too. > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > people, for mankind ? > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't realize anything. > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop hoping wellbeing > for their patients no one would > visit the doctor. > > - It is the known results of the application of the medications that make > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at home and pray. > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > can we be so crude ? > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for a short while, > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things that have to be > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you prefer to live > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. Hoping is an > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may have been > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but it is a choice > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away from REALITY from > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about hope. > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE it. > > Have a great day. > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Glad that you laugh at yourself! ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for tuberculosis. your own words... Best regards Yves Decarie coordinator www.yajna.com - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM Re: Hope > My very dear Yves, > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > - You!<<< > > LOL > > --Manoshi > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring > them > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't create > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it doesn't > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to get the > > food. > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross in > countries in > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping that the > next load > > will come... > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > - You! > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. Thousands of > people > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, those > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not come. > They have no > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. Their goal > is not > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. They are > not wishful > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day > as it did > > for > > tuberculosis. > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting something done > that > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the millions of > people sick > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It is the > personnal > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, greed( a > lot of money > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > working too. > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > people, for mankind ? > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't realize > anything. > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop hoping > wellbeing > > for their patients no one would > > visit the doctor. > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the medications > that make > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at home > and pray. > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > can we be so crude ? > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for a short > while, > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things that > have to be > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you prefer > to live > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. Hoping is an > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may have been > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but it is a > choice > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away from > REALITY from > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about hope. > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE it. > > > > Have a great day. > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will or > not... > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, "That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but working too." My words were these. --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as > it did for tuberculosis. > > your own words... > > > Best regards > Yves Decarie coordinator > www.yajna.com > > > - > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > <> > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > Re: Hope > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > - You!<<< > > > > LOL > > > > --Manoshi > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring > > them > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't create > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it doesn't > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to get the > > > food. > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross in > > countries in > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping that the > > next load > > > will come... > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. Thousands of > > people > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, those > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not come. > > They have no > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. Their goal > > is not > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. They are > > not wishful > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day > > as it did > > > for > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting something done > > that > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the millions of > > people sick > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It is the > > personnal > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, greed( a > > lot of money > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > working too. > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't realize > > anything. > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop hoping > > wellbeing > > > for their patients no one would > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the medications > > that make > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at home > > and pray. > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for a short > > while, > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things that > > have to be > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you prefer > > to live > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. Hoping is an > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may have been > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but it is a > > choice > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away from > > REALITY from > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about hope. > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE it. > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will or > > not... > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear Manoshi in vacation, glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on a material level and on a spiritual level. Yves - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM Re: Hope > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > "That hope for the > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > working too." > My words were these. > > --Manoshi > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine > one day as > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > your own words... > > > > > > Best regards > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > - > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > <> > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > wrote: > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring > > > them > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't > create > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it > doesn't > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to get > the > > > > food. > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross in > > > countries in > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping that > the > > > next load > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. Thousands > of > > > people > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, > those > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not come. > > > They have no > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. Their > goal > > > is not > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. They > are > > > not wishful > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one > day > > > as it did > > > > for > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting something > done > > > that > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the millions of > > > people sick > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It is > the > > > personnal > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, greed( a > > > lot of money > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't > realize > > > anything. > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop hoping > > > wellbeing > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the medications > > > that make > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at > home > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for a > short > > > while, > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things that > > > have to be > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you > prefer > > > to live > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. Hoping > is an > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may have > been > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but it > is a > > > choice > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away from > > > REALITY from > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about hope. > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE it. > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will or > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear Yves, I realize that there are few people who just want to win... misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the end whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I again quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you understand) "kal ke kisi ummeed par ki kahin na kahin kuchh hoga jeete hain aaj ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho dabaa lete hain ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, 'kal'hoga woh din aaj nahin tho kya kal zaroor hoga, kal woh jo socha tha sach hoga kal aur bas yun hi guzartee hai zindagee isee kal ki ummeed par ki vaqt ka kya hai woh tho guzarta hai ummeed ki doree se lipat guzar jayega ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath chupchap apne mein dabaaye woh aag bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe isee kal ki ummeed mein ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on a material > level and on a spiritual level. > > Yves > > > - > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > <> > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > Re: Hope > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > "That hope for the > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > working too." > > My words were these. > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine > > one day as > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > - > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > <> > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > wrote: > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't bring > > > > them > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it doesn't > > create > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it > > doesn't > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results are > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to get > > the > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross in > > > > countries in > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping that > > the > > > > next load > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. Thousands > > of > > > > people > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, > > those > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not come. > > > > They have no > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. Their > > goal > > > > is not > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. They > > are > > > > not wishful > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one > > day > > > > as it did > > > > > for > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting something > > done > > > > that > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the millions of > > > > people sick > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It is > > the > > > > personnal > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, greed( a > > > > lot of money > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't > > realize > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop hoping > > > > wellbeing > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the medications > > > > that make > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at > > home > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for a > > short > > > > while, > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things that > > > > have to be > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you > > prefer > > > > to live > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. Hoping > > is an > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may have > > been > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but it > > is a > > > > choice > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away from > > > > REALITY from > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about hope. > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE it. > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will or > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear doubtfull Manoshi, you pleed misquoting, it is your right. Unfortunatly I cannot read Hindi, will you have the genrerosity and the kindness to translate. I HOPE you will Best regards Yves Decarie coordinator www.yajna.com - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:13 PM Re: Hope > Dear Yves, > > I realize that there are few people who just want to win... > misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the end > whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I again > quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you > understand) > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > ki kahin na kahin > kuchh hoga > jeete hain aaj > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > dabaa lete hain > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > 'kal'hoga woh din > aaj nahin tho kya > kal zaroor hoga, > kal woh jo socha tha > sach hoga kal > aur bas yun hi > guzartee hai zindagee > isee kal ki ummeed par > ki vaqt ka kya hai > woh tho guzarta hai > ummeed ki doree se lipat > guzar jayega > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > woh aag > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > isee kal ki ummeed mein > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on a > material > > level and on a spiritual level. > > > > Yves > > > > > > - > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > <> > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > > > "That hope for the > > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > working too." > > > My words were these. > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > wrote: > > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > medicine > > > one day as > > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > <> > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > > wrote: > > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't > bring > > > > > them > > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it > doesn't > > > create > > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it > > > doesn't > > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results > are > > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to > get > > > the > > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross > in > > > > > countries in > > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping > that > > > the > > > > > next load > > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. > Thousands > > > of > > > > > people > > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, > > > those > > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not > come. > > > > > They have no > > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. > Their > > > goal > > > > > is not > > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. > They > > > are > > > > > not wishful > > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine > one > > > day > > > > > as it did > > > > > > for > > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting > something > > > done > > > > > that > > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the > millions of > > > > > people sick > > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It > is > > > the > > > > > personnal > > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, > greed( a > > > > > lot of money > > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't > > > realize > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop > hoping > > > > > wellbeing > > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the > medications > > > > > that make > > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at > > > home > > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for > a > > > short > > > > > while, > > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things > that > > > > > have to be > > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you > > > prefer > > > > > to live > > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. > Hoping > > > is an > > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may > have > > > been > > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but > it > > > is a > > > > > choice > > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away > from > > > > > REALITY from > > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about > hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will > or > > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear doubtfull Manoshi, There cannot be winners ans loosers as we are illusions. Unless you take it personnally, then the ego can be hurt. You pleed misquoting.... Unfortunatly I cannot read Hindi, will you have the genrerosity and the kindness to translate. I HOPE you will Best regards Yves Decarie coordinator www.yajna.com - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:13 PM Re: Hope > Dear Yves, > > I realize that there are few people who just want to win... > misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the end > whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I again > quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you > understand) > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > ki kahin na kahin > kuchh hoga > jeete hain aaj > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > dabaa lete hain > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > 'kal'hoga woh din > aaj nahin tho kya > kal zaroor hoga, > kal woh jo socha tha > sach hoga kal > aur bas yun hi > guzartee hai zindagee > isee kal ki ummeed par > ki vaqt ka kya hai > woh tho guzarta hai > ummeed ki doree se lipat > guzar jayega > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > woh aag > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > isee kal ki ummeed mein > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on a > material > > level and on a spiritual level. > > > > Yves > > > > > > - > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > <> > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > > > "That hope for the > > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > working too." > > > My words were these. > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > wrote: > > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > medicine > > > one day as > > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > <> > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > > wrote: > > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't > bring > > > > > them > > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it > doesn't > > > create > > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it > > > doesn't > > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results > are > > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to > get > > > the > > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross > in > > > > > countries in > > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping > that > > > the > > > > > next load > > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. > Thousands > > > of > > > > > people > > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, > > > those > > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not > come. > > > > > They have no > > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. > Their > > > goal > > > > > is not > > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. > They > > > are > > > > > not wishful > > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine > one > > > day > > > > > as it did > > > > > > for > > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting > something > > > done > > > > > that > > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the > millions of > > > > > people sick > > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It > is > > > the > > > > > personnal > > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, > greed( a > > > > > lot of money > > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't > > > realize > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop > hoping > > > > > wellbeing > > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the > medications > > > > > that make > > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at > > > home > > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for > a > > > short > > > > > while, > > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things > that > > > > > have to be > > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you > > > prefer > > > > > to live > > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. > Hoping > > > is an > > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may > have > > > been > > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but > it > > > is a > > > > > choice > > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away > from > > > > > REALITY from > > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about > hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will > or > > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 It was humour... Yves - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:13 PM Re: Hope > Dear Yves, > > I realize that there are few people who just want to win... > misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the end > whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I again > quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you > understand) > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > ki kahin na kahin > kuchh hoga > jeete hain aaj > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > dabaa lete hain > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > 'kal'hoga woh din > aaj nahin tho kya > kal zaroor hoga, > kal woh jo socha tha > sach hoga kal > aur bas yun hi > guzartee hai zindagee > isee kal ki ummeed par > ki vaqt ka kya hai > woh tho guzarta hai > ummeed ki doree se lipat > guzar jayega > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > woh aag > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > isee kal ki ummeed mein > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on a > material > > level and on a spiritual level. > > > > Yves > > > > > > - > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > <> > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > > > "That hope for the > > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > working too." > > > My words were these. > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > wrote: > > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > medicine > > > one day as > > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > <> > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > > wrote: > > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't > bring > > > > > them > > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it > doesn't > > > create > > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it > > > doesn't > > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results > are > > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to > get > > > the > > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross > in > > > > > countries in > > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping > that > > > the > > > > > next load > > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. > Thousands > > > of > > > > > people > > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, > > > those > > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not > come. > > > > > They have no > > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. > Their > > > goal > > > > > is not > > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. > They > > > are > > > > > not wishful > > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine > one > > > day > > > > > as it did > > > > > > for > > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting > something > > > done > > > > > that > > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the > millions of > > > > > people sick > > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It > is > > > the > > > > > personnal > > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, > greed( a > > > > > lot of money > > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't > > > realize > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop > hoping > > > > > wellbeing > > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the > medications > > > > > that make > > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at > > > home > > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for > a > > > short > > > > > while, > > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things > that > > > > > have to be > > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you > > > prefer > > > > > to live > > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. > Hoping > > > is an > > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may > have > > > been > > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but > it > > > is a > > > > > choice > > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away > from > > > > > REALITY from > > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about > hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will > or > > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dear doubtfull Manoshi, There cannot be winners ans loosers as we are illusions. Unless you take it personnally, then the ego can be hurt. You pleed misquoting.... Unfortunatly I cannot read Hindi, will you have the genrerosity and the kindness to translate. I HOPE you will Best regards Yves Decarie coordinator www.yajna.com - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:13 PM Re: Hope > Dear Yves, > > I realize that there are few people who just want to win... > misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the end > whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I again > quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you > understand) > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > ki kahin na kahin > kuchh hoga > jeete hain aaj > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > dabaa lete hain > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > 'kal'hoga woh din > aaj nahin tho kya > kal zaroor hoga, > kal woh jo socha tha > sach hoga kal > aur bas yun hi > guzartee hai zindagee > isee kal ki ummeed par > ki vaqt ka kya hai > woh tho guzarta hai > ummeed ki doree se lipat > guzar jayega > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > woh aag > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > isee kal ki ummeed mein > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > --Manoshi , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on a > material > > level and on a spiritual level. > > > > Yves > > > > > > - > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > <> > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > > > "That hope for the > > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > working too." > > > My words were these. > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > wrote: > > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > medicine > > > one day as > > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > <> > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > > wrote: > > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't > bring > > > > > them > > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it > doesn't > > > create > > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it > > > doesn't > > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results > are > > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to > get > > > the > > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross > in > > > > > countries in > > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping > that > > > the > > > > > next load > > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. > Thousands > > > of > > > > > people > > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, > > > those > > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not > come. > > > > > They have no > > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. > Their > > > goal > > > > > is not > > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. > They > > > are > > > > > not wishful > > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine > one > > > day > > > > > as it did > > > > > > for > > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting > something > > > done > > > > > that > > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the > millions of > > > > > people sick > > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It > is > > > the > > > > > personnal > > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, > greed( a > > > > > lot of money > > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't > > > realize > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop > hoping > > > > > wellbeing > > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the > medications > > > > > that make > > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at > > > home > > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for > a > > > short > > > > > while, > > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things > that > > > > > have to be > > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you > > > prefer > > > > > to live > > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. > Hoping > > > is an > > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may > have > > > been > > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but > it > > > is a > > > > > choice > > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away > from > > > > > REALITY from > > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about > hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will > or > > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 There is no need to post the request over and over... if anyone is not replying to a post it means he or she might just be not interested in doing so. Everyone is at his or her liberty here to continue or discontinue a thread. None of us have a right to impose upon someone that he/she must reply to a message. There are people out there who do not even trust in astrology, call it a superstition, and call successful predictions to be co- incidents. On the other hand many astrologers hold that remedies are interfering into what God wants and should be avoided, etc etc. I have listened to and fought with such arguments for long, now I let people believe what they want to believe. Such philosophical topics like hope are to feel and each of our feelings, observation, views are different. These philosophical posts lose their beauty/meaning when put under a microscopic view. Microscopes are for sciences and not for arts. They make it dirty. It becomes very tiring when we want to just prove our point and determine just to win... it becomes a fight rather than a discussion and becomes very annoying. Tanvir. , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Dear doubtfull Manoshi, > > There cannot be winners ans loosers as we are illusions. Unless you take it > personnally, then the ego can be hurt. > > You pleed misquoting.... > > Unfortunatly I cannot read Hindi, > will you have the genrerosity and the kindness to translate. > > I HOPE you will > > Best regards > Yves Decarie coordinator > www.yajna.com > > > - > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > <> > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:13 PM > Re: Hope > > > > Dear Yves, > > > > I realize that there are few people who just want to win... > > misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the end > > whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I again > > quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you > > understand) > > > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > > ki kahin na kahin > > kuchh hoga > > jeete hain aaj > > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > > dabaa lete hain > > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > > 'kal'hoga woh din > > aaj nahin tho kya > > kal zaroor hoga, > > kal woh jo socha tha > > sach hoga kal > > aur bas yun hi > > guzartee hai zindagee > > isee kal ki ummeed par > > ki vaqt ka kya hai > > woh tho guzarta hai > > ummeed ki doree se lipat > > guzar jayega > > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > > woh aag > > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > > isee kal ki ummeed mein > > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > > > > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on a > > material > > > level and on a spiritual level. > > > > > > Yves > > > > > > > > > - > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > <> > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > > > > > "That hope for the > > > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > > > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > working too." > > > > My words were these. > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > wrote: > > > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > > medicine > > > > one day as > > > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > > <> > > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it doesn't > > bring > > > > > > them > > > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it > > doesn't > > > > create > > > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for AIDS, it > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not results > > are > > > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work to > > get > > > > the > > > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red cross > > in > > > > > > countries in > > > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and hoping > > that > > > > the > > > > > > next load > > > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. > > Thousands > > > > of > > > > > > people > > > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards peace, > > > > those > > > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will not > > come. > > > > > > They have no > > > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. > > Their > > > > goal > > > > > > is not > > > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. > > They > > > > are > > > > > > not wishful > > > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine > > one > > > > day > > > > > > as it did > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting > > something > > > > done > > > > > > that > > > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the > > millions of > > > > > > people sick > > > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. It > > is > > > > the > > > > > > personnal > > > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, > > greed( a > > > > > > lot of money > > > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the amount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it won't > > > > realize > > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop > > hoping > > > > > > wellbeing > > > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the > > medications > > > > > > that make > > > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just stay at > > > > home > > > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting for > > a > > > > short > > > > > > while, > > > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any things > > that > > > > > > have to be > > > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If you > > > > prefer > > > > > > to live > > > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. > > Hoping > > > > is an > > > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it may > > have > > > > been > > > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, but > > it > > > > is a > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away > > from > > > > > > REALITY from > > > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about > > hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you will > > or > > > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Thanks tanvir. --Manoshi , "Tanvir Chowdhury" <lord_narayana@l...> wrote: > There is no need to post the request over and over... if anyone is > not replying to a post it means he or she might just be not > interested in doing so. Everyone is at his or her liberty here to > continue or discontinue a thread. None of us have a right to impose > upon someone that he/she must reply to a message. > > There are people out there who do not even trust in astrology, call > it a superstition, and call successful predictions to be co- > incidents. On the other hand many astrologers hold that remedies are > interfering into what God wants and should be avoided, etc etc. I > have listened to and fought with such arguments for long, now I let > people believe what they want to believe. > > Such philosophical topics like hope are to feel and each of our > feelings, observation, views are different. These philosophical posts > lose their beauty/meaning when put under a microscopic view. > Microscopes are for sciences and not for arts. They make it dirty. > > It becomes very tiring when we want to just prove our point and > determine just to win... it becomes a fight rather than a discussion > and becomes very annoying. > > Tanvir. > > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Dear doubtfull Manoshi, > > > > There cannot be winners ans loosers as we are illusions. Unless you > take it > > personnally, then the ego can be hurt. > > > > You pleed misquoting.... > > > > Unfortunatly I cannot read Hindi, > > will you have the genrerosity and the kindness to translate. > > > > I HOPE you will > > > > Best regards > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > - > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > <> > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:13 PM > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > Dear Yves, > > > > > > I realize that there are few people who just want to win... > > > misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the end > > > whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I again > > > quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you > > > understand) > > > > > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > > > ki kahin na kahin > > > kuchh hoga > > > jeete hain aaj > > > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > > > dabaa lete hain > > > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > > > 'kal'hoga woh din > > > aaj nahin tho kya > > > kal zaroor hoga, > > > kal woh jo socha tha > > > sach hoga kal > > > aur bas yun hi > > > guzartee hai zindagee > > > isee kal ki ummeed par > > > ki vaqt ka kya hai > > > woh tho guzarta hai > > > ummeed ki doree se lipat > > > guzar jayega > > > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > > > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > > > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > > > woh aag > > > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > > > isee kal ki ummeed mein > > > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > wrote: > > > > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > > > > > > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless on > a > > > material > > > > level and on a spiritual level. > > > > > > > > Yves > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > <> > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > > > > > > > "That hope for the > > > > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did for > > > > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST hoping > but > > > > > working too." > > > > > My words were these. > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > > > medicine > > > > > one day as > > > > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > > > <> > > > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" > <yves> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it > doesn't > > > bring > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it > > > doesn't > > > > > create > > > > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for > AIDS, it > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not > results > > > are > > > > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them work > to > > > get > > > > > the > > > > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red > cross > > > in > > > > > > > countries in > > > > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and > hoping > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > next load > > > > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. > > > Thousands > > > > > of > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards > peace, > > > > > those > > > > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it will > not > > > come. > > > > > > > They have no > > > > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the world. > > > Their > > > > > goal > > > > > > > is not > > > > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the world. > > > They > > > > > are > > > > > > > not wishful > > > > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > medicine > > > one > > > > > day > > > > > > > as it did > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting > > > something > > > > > done > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the > > > millions of > > > > > > > people sick > > > > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on this. > It > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > personnal > > > > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the world, > > > greed( a > > > > > > > lot of money > > > > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the > amount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it > won't > > > > > realize > > > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or stop > > > hoping > > > > > > > wellbeing > > > > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the > > > medications > > > > > > > that make > > > > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just > stay at > > > > > home > > > > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally uplifting > for > > > a > > > > > short > > > > > > > while, > > > > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any > things > > > that > > > > > > > have to be > > > > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? If > you > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > to live > > > > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your choice. > > > Hoping > > > > > is an > > > > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as it > may > > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing up, > but > > > it > > > > > is a > > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you away > > > from > > > > > > > REALITY from > > > > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual about > > > hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I CHOOSE > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if you > will > > > or > > > > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Dear Tanvir and Manoshi, I agree with you about the exactitude of predictions, and the necessity for remedials measures. I work full time in jyotish for 12 years now and take care of remedial measures, I also met people who were considering the remedial measures as anti-God's will. For me it is more an indication of His mercifulness. Concerning philosophical points of view, we have mainly two choices: One is to share them with people who see things like we do. It is not risky. It is a safe attitude that will reinforce our point of view, period. The other one is to discuss with someone who doesn't share our point of view so we can test objectively what we consider knowledge for ourselves. To do this we have to accept all objections and new dimensions that can apply to a point of view with respect. It is a nourishing process for the mind. We should be happy to do this once in a while. Even if we keep our point of view, it can be nourishing to understand well why someone is thinking this way or that way. This is what you did with the people who were opposing to remedial measures. You discussed with them for a while and then you saw thier point of view vs your point of view, you decided to keep yours. And it is fine like this. It takes courage and integrity to go up to the end of such a process. I think, when someone reach his limits in an argumentation about finding the truth about something and the only argument left is: « You just want to win » That shows: 1- the person has reach the limit to defend a point of view 2- the person prefer to withdraw in his thought pattern unstead of facing a new way of seeing things, it is a refusal to progress How can someone progress if once in a while he is not questionning his knowledge or believes? So Manoshi, when you share an idea you should ask yourself: «Do I just want a pad on the back, or I really want to investigate about my knowledge and believes?» With respects Yves - "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa <> Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:19 AM Re: Hope > Thanks tanvir. > > --Manoshi > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > <lord_narayana@l...> wrote: > > There is no need to post the request over and over... if anyone is > > not replying to a post it means he or she might just be not > > interested in doing so. Everyone is at his or her liberty here to > > continue or discontinue a thread. None of us have a right to > impose > > upon someone that he/she must reply to a message. > > > > There are people out there who do not even trust in astrology, > call > > it a superstition, and call successful predictions to be co- > > incidents. On the other hand many astrologers hold that remedies > are > > interfering into what God wants and should be avoided, etc etc. I > > have listened to and fought with such arguments for long, now I > let > > people believe what they want to believe. > > > > Such philosophical topics like hope are to feel and each of our > > feelings, observation, views are different. These philosophical > posts > > lose their beauty/meaning when put under a microscopic view. > > Microscopes are for sciences and not for arts. They make it dirty. > > > > It becomes very tiring when we want to just prove our point and > > determine just to win... it becomes a fight rather than a > discussion > > and becomes very annoying. > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > > Dear doubtfull Manoshi, > > > > > > There cannot be winners ans loosers as we are illusions. Unless > you > > take it > > > personnally, then the ego can be hurt. > > > > > > You pleed misquoting.... > > > > > > Unfortunatly I cannot read Hindi, > > > will you have the genrerosity and the kindness to translate. > > > > > > I HOPE you will > > > > > > Best regards > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > - > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > <> > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:13 PM > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves, > > > > > > > > I realize that there are few people who just want to win... > > > > misquoting people and trying to prove themselves right at the > end > > > > whatever be it. Hope is useless for some people, not all. I > again > > > > quote my poem with strong emphasis(which I have doubts if you > > > > understand) > > > > > > > > "kal ke kisi ummeed par > > > > ki kahin na kahin > > > > kuchh hoga > > > > jeete hain aaj > > > > ki kahin bhadakti hai aag tho > > > > dabaa lete hain > > > > ki 'kal'kuchh hoga, > > > > 'kal'hoga woh din > > > > aaj nahin tho kya > > > > kal zaroor hoga, > > > > kal woh jo socha tha > > > > sach hoga kal > > > > aur bas yun hi > > > > guzartee hai zindagee > > > > isee kal ki ummeed par > > > > ki vaqt ka kya hai > > > > woh tho guzarta hai > > > > ummeed ki doree se lipat > > > > guzar jayega > > > > ye zindagi bhi kat jayegee > > > > kai hazzaar zindagiyon ke saath > > > > chupchap apne mein dabaaye > > > > woh aag > > > > bina bhadke, kisi se kuchh kahe > > > > isee kal ki ummeed mein > > > > ki kal kuchh zaroor hoga, kal....." > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" <yves> > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Manoshi in vacation, > > > > > > > > > > glad that you realize finally that Hope is somrthing useless > on > > a > > > > material > > > > > level and on a spiritual level. > > > > > > > > > > Yves > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > > <> > > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM > > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yves Decarie coordinator, > > > > > > > > > > > > "That hope for the > > > > > > cure of AIDS will bring out the medicine one day as it did > for > > > > > > tuberculosis. Results will come too not only by JUST > hoping > > but > > > > > > working too." > > > > > > My words were these. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" > <yves> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Glad that you laugh at yourself! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ref: That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > > > > medicine > > > > > > one day as > > > > > > > it did for tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your own words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > > > Yves Decarie coordinator > > > > > > > www.yajna.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> > > > > > > > <> > > > > > > > Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:36 PM > > > > > > > Re: Hope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My very dear Yves, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the > wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You!<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yajna" > > <yves> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > My very dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Millions of people hope for food everyday, it > > doesn't > > > > bring > > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > food.Thousands of people hope for peace everyday, it > > > > doesn't > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > world peace.Millions of people hope for a cure for > > AIDS, it > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > > create the cure.All that is a LOT OF HOPE, but not > > results > > > > are > > > > > > > > > coming from that.<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This hope of millions of people for food make them > work > > to > > > > get > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Not those who are waiting for help coming from red > > cross > > > > in > > > > > > > > countries in > > > > > > > > > Africa. They are in refugees camp and waiting, and > > hoping > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > next load > > > > > > > > > will come... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said no karma and only hope can fulfil the > wishes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is not wishful thinking, hope is very positive. > > > > Thousands > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > hope for peace and that hope makes them work towards > > peace, > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > who do not hope for peace dont work towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Many people can work for peace knowing that it > will > > not > > > > come. > > > > > > > > They have no > > > > > > > > > hope for peace but work for a betterment of the > world. > > > > Their > > > > > > goal > > > > > > > > is not > > > > > > > > > wishing for world peace, but a betterment of the > world. > > > > They > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not wishful > > > > > > > > > thinker, they are realistic doers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That hope for the cure of AIDS will bring out the > > medicine > > > > one > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > as it did > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > tuberculosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Again it is not the hope, but the work of wanting > > > > something > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > makes people work on it. It is not the Hope of the > > > > millions of > > > > > > > > people sick > > > > > > > > > around theworld that makes the doctors working on > this. > > It > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > personnal > > > > > > > > > motivations of those doctors, betterment of the > world, > > > > greed( a > > > > > > > > lot of money > > > > > > > > > is involved in that), etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Results will come too not only by JUST hoping but > > > > > > > > > working too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - NO results at all can come by HOPE, no matter the > > amount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As human beings can we not even hope for the best for > > > > > > > > > people, for mankind ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Moodmaking, wishful thinking. You can do it but it > > won't > > > > > > realize > > > > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The doctors if stop giving hopes to the patients or > stop > > > > hoping > > > > > > > > wellbeing > > > > > > > > > for their patients no one would > > > > > > > > > visit the doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is the known results of the application of the > > > > medications > > > > > > > > that make > > > > > > > > > people go see the doctor, otherwise they would just > > stay at > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > and pray. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope is the seed which gives the fruit later. How > > > > > > > > > can we be so crude ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You are a romantic. It can be emotionnally > uplifting > > for > > > > a > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > while, > > > > > > > > > but it doesn't change anything to the roots of any > > things > > > > that > > > > > > > > have to be > > > > > > > > > done. How can you be so disconnected from reality? > If > > you > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > to live > > > > > > > > > amongs your thoughts and illusions, it is your > choice. > > > > Hoping > > > > > > is an > > > > > > > > > emotionnal reflex. Maybe not a conscious choice as > it > > may > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > influenced by the believes while you were growing > up, > > but > > > > it > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > > > that you are making everyday. That choice pulls you > away > > > > from > > > > > > > > REALITY from > > > > > > > > > your final liberation. There is nothing spiritual > about > > > > hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personnally I do not wish to live without hope, I > CHOOSE > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > > > > At least I....you will. In fact I have no idea if > you > > will > > > > or > > > > > > > > not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Hello Mr. Yves, Questioning the self does not mean coming up with a new answer each time. A new answer does not mean that it is better than the previous one. And what to do when someone questions himself about the issue, prompted by a discussion, and remains in the same conclusion, and takes his positin on the issue... then should we leave him to his conclusion or again keep saying to reconsider the decision even after he thinks he has taken his position? And I do not think that a person who does not question his knowledge and belief, or asks himself about the issue would continue the discussion for a while. Thanks, Tanvir. , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Dear Tanvir and Manoshi, > > I agree with you about the exactitude of predictions, and the necessity for > remedials measures. I work full time in jyotish for 12 years now and take > care of remedial measures, I also met people who were considering the > remedial measures as anti-God's will. For me it is more an indication of His > mercifulness. > > Concerning philosophical points of view, we have mainly two choices: > > One is to share them with people who see things like we do. It is not risky. > It is a safe attitude that will reinforce our point of view, period. > > The other one is to discuss with someone who doesn't share our point of view > so we can test objectively what we consider knowledge for ourselves. To do > this we have to accept all objections and new dimensions that can apply to a > point of view with respect. It is a nourishing process for the mind. We > should be happy to do this once in a while. Even if we keep our point of > view, it can be nourishing to understand well why someone is thinking this > way or that way. > > This is what you did with the people who were opposing to remedial measures. > You discussed with them for a while and then you saw thier point of view vs > your point of view, you decided to keep yours. And it is fine like this. It > takes courage and integrity to go up to the end of such a process. > > I think, when someone reach his limits in an argumentation about finding the > truth about something and the only argument left is: > « You just want to win » > That shows: > 1- the person has reach the limit to defend a point of view > 2- the person prefer to withdraw in his thought pattern unstead of facing a > new way of seeing things, it is a refusal to progress > > How can someone progress if once in a while he is not questionning his > knowledge or believes? > > So Manoshi, when you share an idea you should ask yourself: > «Do I just want a pad on the back, or I really want to investigate about my > knowledge and believes?» > > With respects > Yves > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Dear Tanvir, you wrote: Questioning the self does not mean coming up with a new answer each time. A new answer does not mean that it is better than the previous one. -Yes. And what to do when someone questions himself about the issue, prompted by a discussion, and remains in the same conclusion, and takes his positin on the issue... - There is nothing to do. It is this person's choice. You cannot do more then offering your point of view. It is to the next person to consider if it is valuable to him or not. then should we leave him to his conclusion or again keep saying to reconsider the decision even after he thinks he has taken his position? - As long as there is an opening and a sincere desire to share on both side it is good to continue. Once both or one of the sides decides that he doesn't want to continue then the discussion is closed, I guess. Otherwise it is pestering. But as long as one gives you a point of view you should expect an answer in return. It is a matter of respect. And I do not think that a person who does not question his knowledge and belief, or asks himself about the issue would continue the discussion for a while. - I am not so sure about that, some people just want gratification because they lack self-confidence. Or other may have self-confidence but lack of clarity of mind. We would have to look at their Sun and Moon. Best regards Thank you for sharing your thoughts Yves , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > Dear Tanvir and Manoshi, > > I agree with you about the exactitude of predictions, and the necessity for > remedials measures. I work full time in jyotish for 12 years now and take > care of remedial measures, I also met people who were considering the > remedial measures as anti-God's will. For me it is more an indication of His > mercifulness. > > Concerning philosophical points of view, we have mainly two choices: > > One is to share them with people who see things like we do. It is not risky. > It is a safe attitude that will reinforce our point of view, period. > > The other one is to discuss with someone who doesn't share our point of view > so we can test objectively what we consider knowledge for ourselves. To do > this we have to accept all objections and new dimensions that can apply to a > point of view with respect. It is a nourishing process for the mind. We > should be happy to do this once in a while. Even if we keep our point of > view, it can be nourishing to understand well why someone is thinking this > way or that way. > > This is what you did with the people who were opposing to remedial measures. > You discussed with them for a while and then you saw thier point of view vs > your point of view, you decided to keep yours. And it is fine like this. It > takes courage and integrity to go up to the end of such a process. > > I think, when someone reach his limits in an argumentation about finding the > truth about something and the only argument left is: > « You just want to win » > That shows: > 1- the person has reach the limit to defend a point of view > 2- the person prefer to withdraw in his thought pattern unstead of facing a > new way of seeing things, it is a refusal to progress > > How can someone progress if once in a while he is not questionning his > knowledge or believes? > > So Manoshi, when you share an idea you should ask yourself: > «Do I just want a pad on the back, or I really want to investigate about my > knowledge and believes?» > > With respects > Yves > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 You are welcome. As you already understood that we can do nothing more than offering our views sometimes, then when a person does not feel interested in continuing in a discussion anymore [for whatever reason it is] we can not force him to do so or have an effort to draw his attention to it over and over by putting a same question many times. After offering our views we can only wait and see if he replies or not, if he does not, we can only remind once few while later, that is the maximum we should do. And if he has no longer interest then we can simply take that he might lack in self confidence or clarity of mind [And it helps us more not to put an effort to draw his attention again]. That is fine for both us and the person we are getting the impression of. As we seem to be agreed on the point, everyone is entitled to believe what he wishes. Best wishes, Tanvir. , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > Dear Tanvir, > > you wrote: > Questioning the self does not mean coming up with a new answer each > time. A new answer does not mean that it is better than the previous > one. > > -Yes. > > And what to do when someone questions himself about the issue, > prompted by a discussion, and remains in the same conclusion, and > takes his positin on the issue... > > - There is nothing to do. It is this person's choice. You cannot do more > then offering your point of view. It is to the next person to consider if it > is valuable to him or not. > > then should we leave him to his > conclusion or again keep saying to reconsider the decision even after > he thinks he has taken his position? > > - As long as there is an opening and a sincere desire to share on both side > it is good to continue. Once both or one of the sides decides that he > doesn't want to continue then the discussion is closed, I guess. Otherwise > it is pestering. But as long as one gives you a point of view you should > expect an answer in return. It is a matter of respect. > > And I do not think that a person who does not question his knowledge > and belief, or asks himself about the issue would continue the > discussion for a while. > > - I am not so sure about that, some people just want gratification because > they lack self-confidence. Or other may have self-confidence but lack of > clarity of mind. We would have to look at their Sun and Moon. > > Best regards > Thank you for sharing your thoughts > Yves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 <<<And if he has no longer interest then we can simply take that he might lack in self confidence or clarity of mind [And it helps us more not to put an effort to draw his attention again]. That is fine for both us and the person we are getting the impression of. As we seem to be agreed on the point, everyone is entitled to believe what he wishes.>>> Its not the lack of self-confidence but ignoring and especially when there is no point in trying to prove the point which the other person doesnt believe and brings the discussion to a personal level as the same for him as I dont believe in what he believes in. We have both put forward our points and we don agree so thats the end. Thanks Tanvir to act as a good moderator whenever required. I think we should close this thread here. --Manoshi , "Tanvir Chowdhury" <lord_narayana@l...> wrote: > You are welcome. As you already understood that we can do nothing > more than offering our views sometimes, then when a person does not > feel interested in continuing in a discussion anymore [for whatever > reason it is] we can not force him to do so or have an effort to draw > his attention to it over and over by putting a same question many > times. After offering our views we can only wait and see if he > replies or not, if he does not, we can only remind once few while > later, that is the maximum we should do. > > And if he has no longer interest then we can simply take that he > might lack in self confidence or clarity of mind [And it helps us > more not to put an effort to draw his attention again]. That is fine > for both us and the person we are getting the impression of. As we > seem to be agreed on the point, everyone is entitled to believe what > he wishes. > > Best wishes, > Tanvir. > > , "Yajna" <yves> wrote: > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > you wrote: > > Questioning the self does not mean coming up with a new answer each > > time. A new answer does not mean that it is better than the previous > > one. > > > > -Yes. > > > > And what to do when someone questions himself about the issue, > > prompted by a discussion, and remains in the same conclusion, and > > takes his positin on the issue... > > > > - There is nothing to do. It is this person's choice. You cannot do > more > > then offering your point of view. It is to the next person to > consider if it > > is valuable to him or not. > > > > then should we leave him to his > > conclusion or again keep saying to reconsider the decision even > after > > he thinks he has taken his position? > > > > - As long as there is an opening and a sincere desire to share on > both side > > it is good to continue. Once both or one of the sides decides that > he > > doesn't want to continue then the discussion is closed, I guess. > Otherwise > > it is pestering. But as long as one gives you a point of view you > should > > expect an answer in return. It is a matter of respect. > > > > And I do not think that a person who does not question his knowledge > > and belief, or asks himself about the issue would continue the > > discussion for a while. > > > > - I am not so sure about that, some people just want gratification > because > > they lack self-confidence. Or other may have self-confidence but > lack of > > clarity of mind. We would have to look at their Sun and Moon. > > > > Best regards > > Thank you for sharing your thoughts > > Yves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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