Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 hi Surya, your post is interesting but just want to add something ...the ardhanari tattva is shiva and shakti are one and the same and mutually dependent on each other..neither of them will function independently.....may be in the present day ...illusory thought is prevailing that both are independent...as such there is no superiority among gods...there is only assignment of duties among themselves... second regarding kali standing on the chest of shiva and his stillness..this form falls under the big canvas of srividya tattva...dasa maha sakthi and ultimate srilalitha....each form has its own divine reasoning and intentions and intrepreting the same for some other concept explanation may not be correct. sriganeshh , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Sreelatha I am truly impressed ! > > I would like to add that God is beyond Good or Bad, > and regarding maya, there is no difference between > jagan maya and jagan mata as I see it .. > > Power is useless as long as it dosent manifest ... > manifestation of power is always in material nature > ... if Vishnu is power, Maya is his manifestation both > are inseperable however Vishnu himself is beyond the > good/evil manifestation of maya ... in this sense maya > is always subordinate to vishnu .. > > Probably it is for this reason that we have > conceptulization of Ardha narishvaram, and also forms > where Kali is standing on the chest of shiva who is > smiling and still ... in a way it is symbolic that > shiva is helpless without kali yet he is superior in > his stillness !! both are superior in a way of their > own ... > > > --- Venkatarama Sreelatha > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > Dear Sriganesha, > > > > Are you trying to find the reasoning behind the fact > > that the diety > > for Saturn is Vishnu? Here is mine, see if this > > makes sense... > > > > The fact that the diety for Mercury isVishnu is easy > > to grasp, since > > the attributes are a perfect match - intelligence, > > communication, > > child-like joy, kindness etc. Similarly, it is easy > > to see the > > lovely Lakshmi representing Venus, the benefic Shiva > > indicating the > > father, Sun, the gentle Parvathi indicating the > > mother, Moon etc. > > However, it is very hard to grasp that God in some > > form can be the > > diety for the malefic planets such as Saturn, Rahu > > and Ketu, isn't > > it! Take Rahu, for instance. It represents base > > materialism, a > > seemingly negative thing, right? Yet, in its > > positive form, this > > same materialism is the 'Material - ism", that which > > encompasses the > > entire Universe that we can see, feel etc. Hence, in > > that form, it > > is the Divine Prakriti herself, and the energy, the > > Shakti that > > sustains all material things, all the way from the > > electrical forces > > in the atom to the gravitational etc. forces that > > keep the Universe > > together. Hence Rahu is worshipped as the Shakti, > > Durga Devi. > > > > Ketu is the headless demon, symbolizing mindless > > activities - but > > again, it also symbolizes going beyond the clutches > > of the mind, or > > the Ahamkara, i.e. realizing the self/soul. In this > > positive form, > > it represents Moksha, which is nothing but the > > casting away of > > the "head", the feeling of "I". All that remains is > > the Divine, the > > Omkaara, and the Omkaara is personified as Ganesha, > > the pure, > > innocent and selfless child. > > > > Saturn symbolizes slowness (manda) and sorrow. > > Again, there are > > positive connotations here, for example steadyness - > > while Shiva > > represents the constant motion of all things in the > > Universe through > > his dance (Tandavam), Vishnu represents the internal > > stillness of > > all things by laying on Adishesha. Vishnumaaya, > > sometimes > > personified as Vishnu's servant Maaya, covers our > > true nature and > > leads to all our sorrows - Krishna says in the > > Bhagavat Geetha that > > this Maya is all-pervasive and the only way to break > > free of its > > grasp is through divine grace. This, to me, is what > > Saturn is all > > about, the patience and the steady, quiet faith > > needed to break free > > from the illusions of the world, and that is only > > possible through > > the grace of Vishnu, the Lord of Saturn. > > > > I am interested in your feedback, let me know what > > you think! > > -Sreelatha > > > > , > > "sriganeshh" > > <sriganeshh> wrote: > > > Dear Sreelatha, > > > > > > i have gone through the same but somehow the > > reasoning part is not > > > appealing to me and that is why i sought some > > advise... > > > > > > see for example...vaishvanite worship...the logic > > seems to be > > > there...as they believe only in Perumal ie., > > vishnu..but > > others...it > > > shld be different... > > > > > > otherwise i fully agree with you that we should > > arrive at our own > > as > > > all are different forms of the same god... > > > > > > thanks...for update and valuable input making me > > explore something > > > new.... > > > > > > sriganesh > > > > > > > > > , > > "Venkatarama Sreelatha" > > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > > > Dear Sriganesh, > > > > > > > > Forgot to add this - if you want to read about > > all the > > indications > > > > of each graha (color, direction, part of body, > > residence etc.), > > > read > > > > the third chapter in Brihat Parashara Hora > > Shastra. Tanvir Ji > > has > > > > kindly posted the entire Shastra as a Zip file > > in the Files > > section > > > > of this group. Look under the "texts" link. He > > has an excellent > > > > collection of other classics too, if you are > > interested. > > > > > > > > Dear Tanvir, thanks for maintaining so many > > wonderful texts here! > > > > > > > > Sreelatha > > > > > > > > , > > "Venkatarama Sreelatha" > > > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > > > > Dear Sriganesh, > > > > > > > > > > There are two lists of dieties for the grahas. > > The list from > > > > > Maharshi Parasara is the one you mentioned > > that Vaishnavaites > > > use, > > > > > and maps the navagrahas to the 9 past > > incarnations of Vishnu. > > > (The > > > > > tenth one is yet to come, so it is out of this > > scheme for > > now.) > > > > > Quoting from Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra, > > > > > "From Sûrya the incarnation of Ram, from Candr > > that of Krishn, > > > > from > > > > > Mangal that of Narasimh, from Budh that of > > Buddha, from Guru > > that > > > > of > > > > > Vaman, from Úukr that of Parashuram, from Úani > > that of Kurma > > > > > (Tortoise), from Rahu that of Varah (Pig) and > > from Ketu that > > of > > > > Meen > > > > > (Fish) occurred." > > > > > > > > > > The other list is from Jaimini, and gives Siva > > for Surya, > > Gouri > > > > for > > > > > Chandra, Subrahmanya for Mars, Vishnu for > > Mercury, Siva again > > for > > > > > Jupiter, Lakshmi for Venus, Vishnu again for > > Shani, Durga for > > > Rahu > > > > > and Ganesha for Ketu. So, basically two grahas > > for Vishnu and > > > > Shiva > > > > > and one each for the others. > > > > > > > > > > There are many other interpretations, for > > instance, a > > combination > > > > of > > > > > Mercury and Moon indicates Radhakrishna (moon > > indicating > > charming > > > > > the mind, and mercury indicating the beautiful > > child) etc. > > And, > > > > even > > > > > though both Jupiter and Surya indicate Shiva, > > for instance, > > > > Jupiter > > > > > is Shiva in the form of a teacher (wisdom), > > Lord > > Dakshinamurthy, > > > > > while Surya is Shiva in the form of the > > father, > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Hmm I think u have got a point, it's not really wise to mix different areas of expertise .. I do have some counter points here but those will be totally unnecessary ... I would just like to share something though... in devi puranam u have a avatar of devi corresponding to each avatar of vishnu ... the reasoning given is that sri maha vishnu is a purely spiritual being so much so that he is cannot mingle with the material nature .. hence for every avatar of vishnu there is a corresponding avatar of devi where the action to be done is guided by vishnu while the actual action is done by the avatar of devi ... this is one of the reasons (again my own correlation) why even though sri krishna was with gopi's in brindavan he was considered to be a bachelor !! ... I just wanted to put acrosss the point that when we come down to saguna parabrahma there is a clear distinction in the roles of each form as we imagine it ... however when we remove the form so will the difference vanish !!! Point well taken .. thanks !! --- sriganeshh <sriganeshh wrote: > hi Surya, > > your post is interesting but just want to add > something ...the > ardhanari tattva is shiva and shakti are one and the > same and > mutually dependent on each other..neither of them > will function > independently.....may be in the present day > ...illusory thought is > prevailing that both are independent...as such there > is no > superiority among gods...there is only assignment of > duties among > themselves... > > second regarding kali standing on the chest of shiva > and his > stillness..this form falls under the big canvas of > srividya > tattva...dasa maha sakthi and ultimate > srilalitha....each form has > its own divine reasoning and intentions and > intrepreting the same for > some other concept explanation may not be correct. > > > sriganeshh > > , surya > vishnubhotla > <surya_prakashv> wrote: > > Sreelatha I am truly impressed ! > > > > I would like to add that God is beyond Good or > Bad, > > and regarding maya, there is no difference between > > jagan maya and jagan mata as I see it .. > > > > Power is useless as long as it dosent manifest ... > > manifestation of power is always in material > nature > > ... if Vishnu is power, Maya is his manifestation > both > > are inseperable however Vishnu himself is beyond > the > > good/evil manifestation of maya ... in this sense > maya > > is always subordinate to vishnu .. > > > > Probably it is for this reason that we have > > conceptulization of Ardha narishvaram, and also > forms > > where Kali is standing on the chest of shiva who > is > > smiling and still ... in a way it is symbolic that > > shiva is helpless without kali yet he is superior > in > > his stillness !! both are superior in a way of > their > > own ... > > > > > > --- Venkatarama Sreelatha > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > > Dear Sriganesha, > > > > > > Are you trying to find the reasoning behind the > fact > > > that the diety > > > for Saturn is Vishnu? Here is mine, see if this > > > makes sense... > > > > > > The fact that the diety for Mercury isVishnu is > easy > > > to grasp, since > > > the attributes are a perfect match - > intelligence, > > > communication, > > > child-like joy, kindness etc. Similarly, it is > easy > > > to see the > > > lovely Lakshmi representing Venus, the benefic > Shiva > > > indicating the > > > father, Sun, the gentle Parvathi indicating the > > > mother, Moon etc. > > > However, it is very hard to grasp that God in > some > > > form can be the > > > diety for the malefic planets such as Saturn, > Rahu > > > and Ketu, isn't > > > it! Take Rahu, for instance. It represents base > > > materialism, a > > > seemingly negative thing, right? Yet, in its > > > positive form, this > > > same materialism is the 'Material - ism", that > which > > > encompasses the > > > entire Universe that we can see, feel etc. > Hence, in > > > that form, it > > > is the Divine Prakriti herself, and the energy, > the > > > Shakti that > > > sustains all material things, all the way from > the > > > electrical forces > > > in the atom to the gravitational etc. forces > that > > > keep the Universe > > > together. Hence Rahu is worshipped as the > Shakti, > > > Durga Devi. > > > > > > Ketu is the headless demon, symbolizing mindless > > > activities - but > > > again, it also symbolizes going beyond the > clutches > > > of the mind, or > > > the Ahamkara, i.e. realizing the self/soul. In > this > > > positive form, > > > it represents Moksha, which is nothing but the > > > casting away of > > > the "head", the feeling of "I". All that remains > is > > > the Divine, the > > > Omkaara, and the Omkaara is personified as > Ganesha, > > > the pure, > > > innocent and selfless child. > > > > > > Saturn symbolizes slowness (manda) and sorrow. > > > Again, there are > > > positive connotations here, for example > steadyness - > > > while Shiva > > > represents the constant motion of all things in > the > > > Universe through > > > his dance (Tandavam), Vishnu represents the > internal > > > stillness of > > > all things by laying on Adishesha. Vishnumaaya, > > > sometimes > > > personified as Vishnu's servant Maaya, covers > our > > > true nature and > > > leads to all our sorrows - Krishna says in the > > > Bhagavat Geetha that > > > this Maya is all-pervasive and the only way to > break > > > free of its > > > grasp is through divine grace. This, to me, is > what > > > Saturn is all > > > about, the patience and the steady, quiet faith > > > needed to break free > > > from the illusions of the world, and that is > only > > > possible through > > > the grace of Vishnu, the Lord of Saturn. > > > > > > I am interested in your feedback, let me know > what > > > you think! > > > -Sreelatha > > > > > > , > > > "sriganeshh" > > > <sriganeshh> wrote: > > > > Dear Sreelatha, > > > > > > > > i have gone through the same but somehow the > > > reasoning part is not > > > > appealing to me and that is why i sought some > > > advise... > > > > > > > > see for example...vaishvanite worship...the > logic > > > seems to be > > > > there...as they believe only in Perumal ie., > > > vishnu..but > > > others...it > > > > shld be different... > > > > > > > > otherwise i fully agree with you that we > should > > > arrive at our own > > > as > > > > all are different forms of the same god... > > > > > > > > thanks...for update and valuable input making > me > > > explore something > > > > new.... > > > > > > > > sriganesh > > > > > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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