Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: naisargika, sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter here on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a very useful discussion!). I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use for the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some extent. But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the following questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less experienced individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at all threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any rashi being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara rashi dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other karaka? Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of the rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered the atmakaraka or mars? Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as postulates or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to show up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains fictional! RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Interesting questions, Rahiniranjan. Maybe I can go into some detail on a couple of them later. For now, just to quickly answer Q5: If a planet is retrograde, take 30 -(minus) its degrees. Now check to see where it falls in the charakaaraka scheme. For instance, if a planet is at 3 degrees and is retro, you get 30 - 3 = 27 degrees. If the other planets are at 28, 20, 12 etc etc, this places the retro planet as the second in this scheme, hence it is the Amatyakaraka. -S , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: naisargika, > sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter here > on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced > individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a very > useful discussion!). > > I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being > different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use for > the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the > modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some extent. > > But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the following > questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon > these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less experienced > individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few > individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at all > threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any rashi > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara rashi > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > karaka? > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of the > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > the atmakaraka or mars? > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical > responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as postulates > or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if > accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to show > up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains fictional! > > RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Where a planet (?) is nearly always or predominantly retrograde, such as the lunar nodes, it is recommended that you always consider the motion from the 30th degree, as you have indicated. However, for all other planets who are habitually direct and occasionally go retrograde, there are a few opinions: a) If planet is retrograde count it backwards from the last degree, like you mentioned (thanks!) b) calculate the position as if it got arrested in the degree of stambhana. So if mercury went upto 19 and then moved back, for karakaatwa purposes utilize 19 deg as its arc of travel. c) take the actual degree as is and ignore the retrogression, because that is not its natural motion (unlike rahu/ketu). I am not sure if any of these are based on actual testing and comparison of results or simply opinions. RR , "Venkatarama Sreelatha" <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > Interesting questions, Rahiniranjan. Maybe I can go into some detail > on a couple of them later. For now, just to quickly answer Q5: If a > planet is retrograde, take 30 -(minus) its degrees. Now check to see > where it falls in the charakaaraka scheme. For instance, if a planet > is at 3 degrees and is retro, you get 30 - 3 = 27 degrees. If the > other planets are at 28, 20, 12 etc etc, this places the retro > planet as the second in this scheme, hence it is the Amatyakaraka. > > -S > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: naisargika, > > sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter > here > > on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced > > individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a very > > useful discussion!). > > > > I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being > > different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use > for > > the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the > > modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some > extent. > > > > But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the following > > questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon > > these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less experienced > > individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few > > individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at > all > > threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > rashi > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or > antagonize > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) > of > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara > rashi > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during > the > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > > karaka? > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of > the > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be > considered > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti > of > > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > > > More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical > > responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as postulates > > or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if > > accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to > show > > up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains fictional! > > > > RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Hello Everyone, Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to differ from mine. Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any rashi being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which states that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the occupied sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found in Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka is associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the meaning of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words self and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk about ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the highest Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The highest degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread the path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is associated with AK. AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and the goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? Example Case DATE : APRIL 16 1975 TIME : 5:30 PM / 17:30 HRS PLACE : BANGALORE , KARNATAKA ,INDIA AK- Budh(in debilitation) placed in 7 house with the lord of 7. The house is also a seat for Hora Lagna for the chart. Also getting a direct aspect from Sani in 10 house which also happens to be Arudha Lagna. Often AK is called the King of Horoscope hence it is evident yogakarakattwa would vary if it is AK compared with being a gnatikaraka. Here one more thing that is seen is that the fructification of any yogas or yogakarakattwa will occur only in the specific time frame of its Dashas, ADs or PDs. Also the position of placement in the chart or the Shadbala value of the AK also plays an important role. In the case the AK Budh(in debilitation) gave really bad results for health during Guru MahaDasha and Budha AD inspite of the fact that Guru is Swagrahi in Kendra and forming a yoga(Hamsa yoga). The AK in this case has not let the yoga function properly in its own Dasha hence it is evident that neither the raja-yogas (combinations conferring power and wealth), nor the pravrajya-yogas (combinations conferring spiritual advancement) are able to function properly as the AK is in debilitation. Moreover the AK is in vargottama in Navamsa but again in debilitation. The most interesting feature is the Ishta Devataa for the individual as seen from Navamsa. The planet representing is Sun in an odd sign signifying God Rama but what is here to note is that Sun is exalted and in vargottama also. Hence DK is exalted in both charts seeing the support extended to the individual by the future spouse inspite of all the difficulites. The importance of DK is less than AK meaning that effects of AK will influence more during its Dashas. The above chart indicates a Raja Yoga(lord of 5 in 10) associated with Saturn. Also the presence Venus in its own house in a trine is also a powerful yoga. But the person was not able to enjoy the Yoga fully during the AD of Shani(Guru MD) as the conjuction of AK(in debilitation) with the MD lord has started the health related issues which worsens in Budh AD(AK). Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? The above case has Budh in the 4 Pada of Reva Nakshatra. Judging the experience of the person during the AD of AK it can be inferred that the AK (afflicted) in the 4 pada also has given considerable suffering. In a way the strength isnt decreased just because it is in 4 pada. Hence the AK position in chart, Shadbala, aspects and conjuntions plays more important role. Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara rashi dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other karaka? The vimshottari dasha can also be related to chara karakattwa as the above analysis fits perfectly for vimshottari dasha. Yes the vim dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka should be different in flavour in another with same dasha, AK represents the self and dashas representing the self are always more powerful in flavour than dashas for DK. Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of the rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered the atmakaraka or mars? In some cases it is possible that two planets are at exactly the same degree, minute and second in their respective signs. In this case, two planets will occupy the post of the respective karaka and they will compete for it. At the same time the next karaka-place becomes vacant, and its role will be played by the sthira or naisargika karaka. In this case the stronger becomes the respective cara karaka. It also influences the signification, but in a subordinary way. Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? Depends upon the what Chara Karaka is being discussed, AK will be more cruical than DK. Also the position of Karaka in the chart, aspects,shadbala value and conjuctions(also retrograde nature) will determine the final say in the difference in experinence. Another useful factor is to study the placements of the graha Arudhas of the different cara karakas, as from this we may understand how he perceives those different relationships in his life. Gaurav , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: naisargika, > sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter here > on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced > individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a very > useful discussion!). > > I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being > different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use for > the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the > modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some extent. > > But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the following > questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon > these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less experienced > individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few > individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at all > threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any rashi > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara rashi > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > karaka? > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of the > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > the atmakaraka or mars? > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical > responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as postulates > or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if > accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to show > up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains fictional! > > RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Thanks for your very thoughtful response, Gaurav most of which deserve much consideration. However, in the case of Q5, a slight difference from your opinion. According to BPHS, when two planets are in the same longitude, the nodes serve to fill the place vacated. However, those who use 8 karakas and already use up nodes for that would disagree, I suppose. RR , "Gaurav Sharma" <gauravkom> wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to > differ from mine. > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any rashi > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which states > that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the occupied > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found in > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka is > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the meaning > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words self > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk about > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the highest > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The highest > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread the > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is > associated with AK. > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and the > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > Example Case > DATE : APRIL 16 1975 > TIME : 5:30 PM / 17:30 HRS > PLACE : BANGALORE , KARNATAKA ,INDIA > > AK- Budh(in debilitation) placed in 7 house with the lord of 7. The > house is also a seat for Hora Lagna for the chart. Also getting a > direct aspect from Sani in 10 house which also happens to be Arudha > Lagna. > > Often AK is called the King of Horoscope hence it is evident > yogakarakattwa would vary if it is AK compared with being a > gnatikaraka. Here one more thing that is seen is that the > fructification of any yogas or yogakarakattwa will occur only in the > specific time frame of its Dashas, ADs or PDs. Also the position of > placement in the chart or the Shadbala value of the AK also plays an > important role. > > In the case the AK Budh(in debilitation) gave really bad results for > health during Guru MahaDasha and Budha AD inspite of the fact that > Guru is Swagrahi in Kendra and forming a yoga(Hamsa yoga). The AK in > this case has not let the yoga function properly in its own Dasha > hence it is evident that neither the raja-yogas (combinations > conferring power and wealth), nor the pravrajya-yogas (combinations > conferring spiritual advancement) are able to function properly as > the AK is in debilitation. Moreover the AK is in vargottama in > Navamsa but again in debilitation. > > The most interesting feature is the Ishta Devataa for the individual > as seen from Navamsa. The planet representing is Sun in an odd sign > signifying God Rama but what is here to note is that Sun is exalted > and in vargottama also. Hence DK is exalted in both charts seeing the > support extended to the individual by the future spouse inspite of > all the difficulites. > > The importance of DK is less than AK meaning that effects of AK will > influence more during its Dashas. > > The above chart indicates a Raja Yoga(lord of 5 in 10) associated > with Saturn. Also the presence Venus in its own house in a trine is > also a powerful yoga. But the person was not able to enjoy the Yoga > fully during the AD of Shani(Guru MD) as the conjuction of AK(in > debilitation) with the MD lord has started the health related issues > which worsens in Budh AD(AK). > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > The above case has Budh in the 4 Pada of Reva Nakshatra. Judging the > experience of the person during the AD of AK it can be inferred that > the AK (afflicted) in the 4 pada also has given considerable > suffering. In a way the strength isnt decreased just because it is in > 4 pada. Hence the AK position in chart, Shadbala, aspects and > conjuntions plays more important role. > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara rashi > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > karaka? > > The vimshottari dasha can also be related to chara karakattwa as the > above analysis fits perfectly for vimshottari dasha. Yes the vim > dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka should be different in flavour in > another with same dasha, AK represents the self and dashas > representing the self are always more powerful in flavour than dashas > for DK. > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of the > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > the atmakaraka or mars? > > In some cases it is possible that two planets are at exactly the same > degree, minute and second in their respective signs. In this case, > two planets will occupy the post of the respective karaka and they > will compete for it. At the same time the next karaka-place becomes > vacant, and its role will be played by the sthira or naisargika > karaka. In this case the stronger becomes the respective cara karaka. > It also influences the signification, but in a subordinary way. > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > Depends upon the what Chara Karaka is being discussed, AK will be > more cruical than DK. Also the position of Karaka in the chart, > aspects,shadbala value and conjuctions(also retrograde nature) will > determine the final say in the difference in experinence. Another > useful factor is to study the placements of the graha Arudhas of the > different cara karakas, as from this we may understand how he > perceives those different relationships in his life. > > > Gaurav > > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: naisargika, > > sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter > here > > on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced > > individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a very > > useful discussion!). > > > > I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being > > different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use for > > the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the > > modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some > extent. > > > > But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the following > > questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon > > these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less experienced > > individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few > > individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at > all > > threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > rashi > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara > rashi > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > > karaka? > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of > the > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > > > More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical > > responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as postulates > > or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if > > accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to > show > > up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains fictional! > > > > RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Hello Rohini ji, I hope you are using Rahu-Ketu as nodes, if not then plase ignore the post. Ketu is considered to be one of the nodes, however Ketu is the moksha-karaka, or significator of liberation for the cycle of repeated birth and death, and thus he does not cause suffering or teach lessons for our advancement. Do we still really consider the nodes or just Rahu to fill up the place? Gaurav , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Thanks for your very thoughtful response, Gaurav most of which > deserve much consideration. However, in the case of Q5, a slight > difference from your opinion. According to BPHS, when two planets > are in the same longitude, the nodes serve to fill the place > vacated. However, those who use 8 karakas and already use up nodes > for that would disagree, I suppose. > > RR > > , "Gaurav Sharma" > <gauravkom> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are > > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to > > differ from mine. > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > rashi > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the > > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which > states > > that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the > > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the occupied > > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found > in > > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka > is > > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the > meaning > > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words self > > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is > > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk > about > > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the > highest > > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The > highest > > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread the > > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is > > associated with AK. > > > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and > the > > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > Example Case > > DATE : APRIL 16 1975 > > TIME : 5:30 PM / 17:30 HRS > > PLACE : BANGALORE , KARNATAKA ,INDIA > > > > AK- Budh(in debilitation) placed in 7 house with the lord of 7. > The > > house is also a seat for Hora Lagna for the chart. Also getting a > > direct aspect from Sani in 10 house which also happens to be > Arudha > > Lagna. > > > > Often AK is called the King of Horoscope hence it is evident > > yogakarakattwa would vary if it is AK compared with being a > > gnatikaraka. Here one more thing that is seen is that the > > fructification of any yogas or yogakarakattwa will occur only in > the > > specific time frame of its Dashas, ADs or PDs. Also the position > of > > placement in the chart or the Shadbala value of the AK also plays > an > > important role. > > > > In the case the AK Budh(in debilitation) gave really bad results > for > > health during Guru MahaDasha and Budha AD inspite of the fact that > > Guru is Swagrahi in Kendra and forming a yoga(Hamsa yoga). The AK > in > > this case has not let the yoga function properly in its own Dasha > > hence it is evident that neither the raja-yogas (combinations > > conferring power and wealth), nor the pravrajya-yogas > (combinations > > conferring spiritual advancement) are able to function properly as > > the AK is in debilitation. Moreover the AK is in vargottama in > > Navamsa but again in debilitation. > > > > The most interesting feature is the Ishta Devataa for the > individual > > as seen from Navamsa. The planet representing is Sun in an odd > sign > > signifying God Rama but what is here to note is that Sun is > exalted > > and in vargottama also. Hence DK is exalted in both charts seeing > the > > support extended to the individual by the future spouse inspite of > > all the difficulites. > > > > The importance of DK is less than AK meaning that effects of AK > will > > influence more during its Dashas. > > > > The above chart indicates a Raja Yoga(lord of 5 in 10) associated > > with Saturn. Also the presence Venus in its own house in a trine > is > > also a powerful yoga. But the person was not able to enjoy the > Yoga > > fully during the AD of Shani(Guru MD) as the conjuction of AK(in > > debilitation) with the MD lord has started the health related > issues > > which worsens in Budh AD(AK). > > > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > > > The above case has Budh in the 4 Pada of Reva Nakshatra. Judging > the > > experience of the person during the AD of AK it can be inferred > that > > the AK (afflicted) in the 4 pada also has given considerable > > suffering. In a way the strength isnt decreased just because it is > in > > 4 pada. Hence the AK position in chart, Shadbala, aspects and > > conjuntions plays more important role. > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara > rashi > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > > karaka? > > > > The vimshottari dasha can also be related to chara karakattwa as > the > > above analysis fits perfectly for vimshottari dasha. Yes the vim > > dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka should be different in flavour in > > another with same dasha, AK represents the self and dashas > > representing the self are always more powerful in flavour than > dashas > > for DK. > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of > the > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > In some cases it is possible that two planets are at exactly the > same > > degree, minute and second in their respective signs. In this case, > > two planets will occupy the post of the respective karaka and they > > will compete for it. At the same time the next karaka-place > becomes > > vacant, and its role will be played by the sthira or naisargika > > karaka. In this case the stronger becomes the respective cara > karaka. > > It also influences the signification, but in a subordinary way. > > > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > > > Depends upon the what Chara Karaka is being discussed, AK will be > > more cruical than DK. Also the position of Karaka in the chart, > > aspects,shadbala value and conjuctions(also retrograde nature) > will > > determine the final say in the difference in experinence. Another > > useful factor is to study the placements of the graha Arudhas of > the > > different cara karakas, as from this we may understand how he > > perceives those different relationships in his life. > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: > naisargika, > > > sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter > > here > > > on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced > > > individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a > very > > > useful discussion!). > > > > > > I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being > > > different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use > for > > > the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the > > > modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some > > extent. > > > > > > But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the > following > > > questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon > > > these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less > experienced > > > individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few > > > individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at > > all > > > threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) > > > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > > rashi > > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or > antagonize > > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) > of > > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign > and > > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > > > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara > > rashi > > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during > the > > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another > horoscope > > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > > > karaka? > > > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of > > the > > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 > degrees. > > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be > considered > > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti > of > > > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > > > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > > > > > More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical > > > responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as > postulates > > > or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if > > > accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to > > show > > > up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains > fictional! > > > > > > RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 As I read this (quoting only your response to the first question), something clicked in with one of the recurring thoughts of mine when I look at the chara scheme. The representation of rashi as the seed and manifestation of the whole (zodiac). The dwadashamsha is a significant varga and has been attributed to parents, which I always thought of as the genetic hereditary map. Mind you, these are thoughts, not tested theories, yet! So, play with me, bear with me!! Should this make us explore the situation of the charakarakas (in rashis) with some extra inquisitiveness in the dwadashamasha chart? Does the dwadashamsha chart hold a key that is more meaningful than just the physical aspect of genes and heritage or maybe we are being given a glimpse into the journey of at least a signficant (for this lifetime) fragment of the Soul? This is one situation where one must look into their own charts and see if there is a pattern. No need to share publicly, of course! RR , "Gaurav Sharma" <gauravkom> wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to > differ from mine. > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any rashi > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which states > that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the occupied > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found in > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka is > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the meaning > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words self > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk about > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the highest > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The highest > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread the > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is > associated with AK. > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and the > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Gaurav !! this is so impressive !! .. --- Gaurav Sharma <gauravkom wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini > ji, others are > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will > with reason to > differ from mine. > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced > planet in any rashi > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi > being the > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of > BPHS which states > that while calculating the order of karakas the > planet with the > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective > of the occupied > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference > can be found in > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why > the AtmaKaraka is > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen > from the meaning > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in > other words self > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner > meaning is > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps > once we talk about > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging > with the highest > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad > Gita. The highest > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it > has tread the > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced > planet is > associated with AK. > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a > certain goal and the > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final > destination. > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa > interfere or antagonize > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a > yogakaraka par > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its > yogakarakattwa vary > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... > gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > Example Case > DATE : APRIL 16 1975 > TIME : 5:30 PM / 17:30 HRS > PLACE : BANGALORE , KARNATAKA ,INDIA > > AK- Budh(in debilitation) placed in 7 house with > the lord of 7. The > house is also a seat for Hora Lagna for the chart. > Also getting a > direct aspect from Sani in 10 house which also > happens to be Arudha > Lagna. > > Often AK is called the King of Horoscope hence it is > evident > yogakarakattwa would vary if it is AK compared with > being a > gnatikaraka. Here one more thing that is seen is > that the > fructification of any yogas or yogakarakattwa will > occur only in the > specific time frame of its Dashas, ADs or PDs. Also > the position of > placement in the chart or the Shadbala value of the > AK also plays an > important role. > > In the case the AK Budh(in debilitation) gave really > bad results for > health during Guru MahaDasha and Budha AD inspite of > the fact that > Guru is Swagrahi in Kendra and forming a yoga(Hamsa > yoga). The AK in > this case has not let the yoga function properly in > its own Dasha > hence it is evident that neither the raja-yogas > (combinations > conferring power and wealth), nor the > pravrajya-yogas (combinations > conferring spiritual advancement) are able to > function properly as > the AK is in debilitation. Moreover the AK is in > vargottama in > Navamsa but again in debilitation. > > The most interesting feature is the Ishta Devataa > for the individual > as seen from Navamsa. The planet representing is Sun > in an odd sign > signifying God Rama but what is here to note is that > Sun is exalted > and in vargottama also. Hence DK is exalted in both > charts seeing the > support extended to the individual by the future > spouse inspite of > all the difficulites. > > The importance of DK is less than AK meaning that > effects of AK will > influence more during its Dashas. > > The above chart indicates a Raja Yoga(lord of 5 in > 10) associated > with Saturn. Also the presence Venus in its own > house in a trine is > also a powerful yoga. But the person was not able to > enjoy the Yoga > fully during the AD of Shani(Guru MD) as the > conjuction of AK(in > debilitation) with the MD lord has started the > health related issues > which worsens in Budh AD(AK). > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the > awastha (age) of > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees > of a sign and > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? > Will this > awastha show up in the expression of chara > karakattwa? > > The above case has Budh in the 4 Pada of Reva > Nakshatra. Judging the > experience of the person during the AD of AK it can > be inferred that > the AK (afflicted) in the 4 pada also has given > considerable > suffering. In a way the strength isnt decreased just > because it is in > 4 pada. Hence the AK position in chart, Shadbala, > aspects and > conjuntions plays more important role. > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work > with chara rashi > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be > expressed during the > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the > vim dasha or > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in > another horoscope > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or > some other > karaka? > > The vimshottari dasha can also be related to chara > karakattwa as the > above analysis fits perfectly for vimshottari dasha. > Yes the vim > dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka should be different in > flavour in > another with same dasha, AK represents the self and > dashas > representing the self are always more powerful in > flavour than dashas > for DK. > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? > Some say that > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? > From the end of the > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say > mars began > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is > at 23 degrees. > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 > degrees be considered > the atmakaraka or mars? > > In some cases it is possible that two planets are at > exactly the same > degree, minute and second in their respective signs. > In this case, > two planets will occupy the post of the respective > karaka and they > will compete for it. At the same time the next > karaka-place becomes > vacant, and its role will be played by the sthira or > naisargika > karaka. In this case the stronger becomes the > respective cara karaka. > It also influences the signification, but in a > subordinary way. > === message truncated === Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.//votelifeengine/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Superb analysis, Gaurav Ji!! -Sreelatha , "Gaurav Sharma" <gauravkom> wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to > differ from mine. > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any rashi > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which states > that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the occupied > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found in > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka is > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the meaning > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words self > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk about > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the highest > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The highest > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread the > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is > associated with AK. > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and the > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > Example Case > DATE : APRIL 16 1975 > TIME : 5:30 PM / 17:30 HRS > PLACE : BANGALORE , KARNATAKA ,INDIA > > AK- Budh(in debilitation) placed in 7 house with the lord of 7. The > house is also a seat for Hora Lagna for the chart. Also getting a > direct aspect from Sani in 10 house which also happens to be Arudha > Lagna. > > Often AK is called the King of Horoscope hence it is evident > yogakarakattwa would vary if it is AK compared with being a > gnatikaraka. Here one more thing that is seen is that the > fructification of any yogas or yogakarakattwa will occur only in the > specific time frame of its Dashas, ADs or PDs. Also the position of > placement in the chart or the Shadbala value of the AK also plays an > important role. > > In the case the AK Budh(in debilitation) gave really bad results for > health during Guru MahaDasha and Budha AD inspite of the fact that > Guru is Swagrahi in Kendra and forming a yoga(Hamsa yoga). The AK in > this case has not let the yoga function properly in its own Dasha > hence it is evident that neither the raja-yogas (combinations > conferring power and wealth), nor the pravrajya-yogas (combinations > conferring spiritual advancement) are able to function properly as > the AK is in debilitation. Moreover the AK is in vargottama in > Navamsa but again in debilitation. > > The most interesting feature is the Ishta Devataa for the individual > as seen from Navamsa. The planet representing is Sun in an odd sign > signifying God Rama but what is here to note is that Sun is exalted > and in vargottama also. Hence DK is exalted in both charts seeing the > support extended to the individual by the future spouse inspite of > all the difficulites. > > The importance of DK is less than AK meaning that effects of AK will > influence more during its Dashas. > > The above chart indicates a Raja Yoga(lord of 5 in 10) associated > with Saturn. Also the presence Venus in its own house in a trine is > also a powerful yoga. But the person was not able to enjoy the Yoga > fully during the AD of Shani(Guru MD) as the conjuction of AK(in > debilitation) with the MD lord has started the health related issues > which worsens in Budh AD(AK). > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > The above case has Budh in the 4 Pada of Reva Nakshatra. Judging the > experience of the person during the AD of AK it can be inferred that > the AK (afflicted) in the 4 pada also has given considerable > suffering. In a way the strength isnt decreased just because it is in > 4 pada. Hence the AK position in chart, Shadbala, aspects and > conjuntions plays more important role. > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara rashi > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > karaka? > > The vimshottari dasha can also be related to chara karakattwa as the > above analysis fits perfectly for vimshottari dasha. Yes the vim > dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka should be different in flavour in > another with same dasha, AK represents the self and dashas > representing the self are always more powerful in flavour than dashas > for DK. > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of the > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > the atmakaraka or mars? > > In some cases it is possible that two planets are at exactly the same > degree, minute and second in their respective signs. In this case, > two planets will occupy the post of the respective karaka and they > will compete for it. At the same time the next karaka-place becomes > vacant, and its role will be played by the sthira or naisargika > karaka. In this case the stronger becomes the respective cara karaka. > It also influences the signification, but in a subordinary way. > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > Depends upon the what Chara Karaka is being discussed, AK will be > more cruical than DK. Also the position of Karaka in the chart, > aspects,shadbala value and conjuctions(also retrograde nature) will > determine the final say in the difference in experinence. Another > useful factor is to study the placements of the graha Arudhas of the > different cara karakas, as from this we may understand how he > perceives those different relationships in his life. > > > Gaurav > > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: naisargika, > > sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter > here > > on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced > > individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a very > > useful discussion!). > > > > I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being > > different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use for > > the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the > > modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some > extent. > > > > But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the following > > questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon > > these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less experienced > > individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few > > individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at > all > > threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > rashi > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara > rashi > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > > karaka? > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of > the > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > > > More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical > > responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as postulates > > or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if > > accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to > show > > up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains fictional! > > > > RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 Hello Rohini ji, The point of dwadashamasha giving a glimpse into the journey of at least a signficant fragment of the Soul is quite an interesting one. I will explore that in detail with respect to charakarakas (in rashis) but still i personally think that Shastyamsa will reveal a lot more than any other varga. Gaurav , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > As I read this (quoting only your response to the first question), > something clicked in with one of the recurring thoughts of mine when > I look at the chara scheme. The representation of rashi as the seed > and manifestation of the whole (zodiac). The dwadashamsha is a > significant varga and has been attributed to parents, which I always > thought of as the genetic hereditary map. Mind you, these are > thoughts, not tested theories, yet! So, play with me, bear with me!! > > Should this make us explore the situation of the charakarakas (in > rashis) with some extra inquisitiveness in the dwadashamasha chart? > Does the dwadashamsha chart hold a key that is more meaningful than > just the physical aspect of genes and heritage or maybe we are being > given a glimpse into the journey of at least a signficant (for this > lifetime) fragment of the Soul? > > This is one situation where one must look into their own charts and > see if there is a pattern. No need to share publicly, of course! > > RR , "Gaurav Sharma" > <gauravkom> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are > > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to > > differ from mine. > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > rashi > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the > > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which > states > > that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the > > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the occupied > > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found > in > > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka > is > > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the > meaning > > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words self > > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is > > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk > about > > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the > highest > > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The > highest > > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread the > > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is > > associated with AK. > > > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and > the > > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 Thanks Surya :-) Gaurav , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Gaurav !! this is so impressive !! .. > > --- Gaurav Sharma <gauravkom> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini > > ji, others are > > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will > > with reason to > > differ from mine. > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced > > planet in any rashi > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi > > being the > > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of > > BPHS which states > > that while calculating the order of karakas the > > planet with the > > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective > > of the occupied > > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference > > can be found in > > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why > > the AtmaKaraka is > > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen > > from the meaning > > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in > > other words self > > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner > > meaning is > > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps > > once we talk about > > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging > > with the highest > > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad > > Gita. The highest > > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it > > has tread the > > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced > > planet is > > associated with AK. > > > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a > > certain goal and the > > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final > > destination. > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa > > interfere or antagonize > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a > > yogakaraka par > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its > > yogakarakattwa vary > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... > > gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > Example Case > > DATE : APRIL 16 1975 > > TIME : 5:30 PM / 17:30 HRS > > PLACE : BANGALORE , KARNATAKA ,INDIA > > > > AK- Budh(in debilitation) placed in 7 house with > > the lord of 7. The > > house is also a seat for Hora Lagna for the chart. > > Also getting a > > direct aspect from Sani in 10 house which also > > happens to be Arudha > > Lagna. > > > > Often AK is called the King of Horoscope hence it is > > evident > > yogakarakattwa would vary if it is AK compared with > > being a > > gnatikaraka. Here one more thing that is seen is > > that the > > fructification of any yogas or yogakarakattwa will > > occur only in the > > specific time frame of its Dashas, ADs or PDs. Also > > the position of > > placement in the chart or the Shadbala value of the > > AK also plays an > > important role. > > > > In the case the AK Budh(in debilitation) gave really > > bad results for > > health during Guru MahaDasha and Budha AD inspite of > > the fact that > > Guru is Swagrahi in Kendra and forming a yoga(Hamsa > > yoga). The AK in > > this case has not let the yoga function properly in > > its own Dasha > > hence it is evident that neither the raja-yogas > > (combinations > > conferring power and wealth), nor the > > pravrajya-yogas (combinations > > conferring spiritual advancement) are able to > > function properly as > > the AK is in debilitation. Moreover the AK is in > > vargottama in > > Navamsa but again in debilitation. > > > > The most interesting feature is the Ishta Devataa > > for the individual > > as seen from Navamsa. The planet representing is Sun > > in an odd sign > > signifying God Rama but what is here to note is that > > Sun is exalted > > and in vargottama also. Hence DK is exalted in both > > charts seeing the > > support extended to the individual by the future > > spouse inspite of > > all the difficulites. > > > > The importance of DK is less than AK meaning that > > effects of AK will > > influence more during its Dashas. > > > > The above chart indicates a Raja Yoga(lord of 5 in > > 10) associated > > with Saturn. Also the presence Venus in its own > > house in a trine is > > also a powerful yoga. But the person was not able to > > enjoy the Yoga > > fully during the AD of Shani(Guru MD) as the > > conjuction of AK(in > > debilitation) with the MD lord has started the > > health related issues > > which worsens in Budh AD(AK). > > > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the > > awastha (age) of > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees > > of a sign and > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? > > Will this > > awastha show up in the expression of chara > > karakattwa? > > > > The above case has Budh in the 4 Pada of Reva > > Nakshatra. Judging the > > experience of the person during the AD of AK it can > > be inferred that > > the AK (afflicted) in the 4 pada also has given > > considerable > > suffering. In a way the strength isnt decreased just > > because it is in > > 4 pada. Hence the AK position in chart, Shadbala, > > aspects and > > conjuntions plays more important role. > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work > > with chara rashi > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be > > expressed during the > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the > > vim dasha or > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in > > another horoscope > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or > > some other > > karaka? > > > > The vimshottari dasha can also be related to chara > > karakattwa as the > > above analysis fits perfectly for vimshottari dasha. > > Yes the vim > > dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka should be different in > > flavour in > > another with same dasha, AK represents the self and > > dashas > > representing the self are always more powerful in > > flavour than dashas > > for DK. > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? > > Some say that > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? > > From the end of the > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say > > mars began > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is > > at 23 degrees. > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 > > degrees be considered > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > In some cases it is possible that two planets are at > > exactly the same > > degree, minute and second in their respective signs. > > In this case, > > two planets will occupy the post of the respective > > karaka and they > > will compete for it. At the same time the next > > karaka-place becomes > > vacant, and its role will be played by the sthira or > > naisargika > > karaka. In this case the stronger becomes the > > respective cara karaka. > > It also influences the signification, but in a > > subordinary way. > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! > http://advision.webevents.//votelifeengine/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 Thanks Sreelatha ji :-) Gaurav , "Venkatarama Sreelatha" <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > Superb analysis, Gaurav Ji!! > > -Sreelatha > > , "Gaurav Sharma" > <gauravkom> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are > > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to > > differ from mine. > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > rashi > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the > > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which > states > > that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the > > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the occupied > > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found > in > > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka > is > > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the > meaning > > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words self > > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is > > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk > about > > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the > highest > > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The > highest > > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread the > > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is > > associated with AK. > > > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and > the > > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or antagonize > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > Example Case > > DATE : APRIL 16 1975 > > TIME : 5:30 PM / 17:30 HRS > > PLACE : BANGALORE , KARNATAKA ,INDIA > > > > AK- Budh(in debilitation) placed in 7 house with the lord of 7. > The > > house is also a seat for Hora Lagna for the chart. Also getting a > > direct aspect from Sani in 10 house which also happens to be > Arudha > > Lagna. > > > > Often AK is called the King of Horoscope hence it is evident > > yogakarakattwa would vary if it is AK compared with being a > > gnatikaraka. Here one more thing that is seen is that the > > fructification of any yogas or yogakarakattwa will occur only in > the > > specific time frame of its Dashas, ADs or PDs. Also the position > of > > placement in the chart or the Shadbala value of the AK also plays > an > > important role. > > > > In the case the AK Budh(in debilitation) gave really bad results > for > > health during Guru MahaDasha and Budha AD inspite of the fact that > > Guru is Swagrahi in Kendra and forming a yoga(Hamsa yoga). The AK > in > > this case has not let the yoga function properly in its own Dasha > > hence it is evident that neither the raja-yogas (combinations > > conferring power and wealth), nor the pravrajya-yogas > (combinations > > conferring spiritual advancement) are able to function properly as > > the AK is in debilitation. Moreover the AK is in vargottama in > > Navamsa but again in debilitation. > > > > The most interesting feature is the Ishta Devataa for the > individual > > as seen from Navamsa. The planet representing is Sun in an odd > sign > > signifying God Rama but what is here to note is that Sun is > exalted > > and in vargottama also. Hence DK is exalted in both charts seeing > the > > support extended to the individual by the future spouse inspite of > > all the difficulites. > > > > The importance of DK is less than AK meaning that effects of AK > will > > influence more during its Dashas. > > > > The above chart indicates a Raja Yoga(lord of 5 in 10) associated > > with Saturn. Also the presence Venus in its own house in a trine > is > > also a powerful yoga. But the person was not able to enjoy the > Yoga > > fully during the AD of Shani(Guru MD) as the conjuction of AK(in > > debilitation) with the MD lord has started the health related > issues > > which worsens in Budh AD(AK). > > > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) of > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign and > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > > > The above case has Budh in the 4 Pada of Reva Nakshatra. Judging > the > > experience of the person during the AD of AK it can be inferred > that > > the AK (afflicted) in the 4 pada also has given considerable > > suffering. In a way the strength isnt decreased just because it is > in > > 4 pada. Hence the AK position in chart, Shadbala, aspects and > > conjuntions plays more important role. > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara > rashi > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during the > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another horoscope > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > > karaka? > > > > The vimshottari dasha can also be related to chara karakattwa as > the > > above analysis fits perfectly for vimshottari dasha. Yes the vim > > dasha or bhukti of atmakaraka should be different in flavour in > > another with same dasha, AK represents the self and dashas > > representing the self are always more powerful in flavour than > dashas > > for DK. > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of > the > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 degrees. > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be considered > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > In some cases it is possible that two planets are at exactly the > same > > degree, minute and second in their respective signs. In this case, > > two planets will occupy the post of the respective karaka and they > > will compete for it. At the same time the next karaka-place > becomes > > vacant, and its role will be played by the sthira or naisargika > > karaka. In this case the stronger becomes the respective cara > karaka. > > It also influences the signification, but in a subordinary way. > > > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti of > > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > > > Depends upon the what Chara Karaka is being discussed, AK will be > > more cruical than DK. Also the position of Karaka in the chart, > > aspects,shadbala value and conjuctions(also retrograde nature) > will > > determine the final say in the difference in experinence. Another > > useful factor is to study the placements of the graha Arudhas of > the > > different cara karakas, as from this we may understand how he > > perceives those different relationships in his life. > > > > > > Gaurav > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > As most of us know, there are three types of karakas: > naisargika, > > > sthira and chara (Gauruv, you might want to discuss this matter > > here > > > on this forum where you will get the benefit of many experienced > > > individuals and with charts etc. it has the potential to be a > very > > > useful discussion!). > > > > > > I personally do not think, anymore, of Jaimini paddhati as being > > > different from Parashara Paddhati, they work well together, use > for > > > the most part the same factors etc. This is different from the > > > modern paddhatis which use a very different framework to some > > extent. > > > > > > But let us first focus on the chara karakas. I have the > following > > > questions to which those who have experimented or pondered upon > > > these are encouraged to respond. Even younger and less > experienced > > > individuals who have expressed some trepidation about a few > > > individuals all of whom sound to me like nice persons and not at > > all > > > threatening or ogrish (me included, of course!). :-) > > > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > > rashi > > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > > > Q2. To what extent would the charakarakatwa interfere or > antagonize > > > with other attributes? For instance, mars is a yogakaraka par > > > excellence for karkata lagna. How would its yogakarakattwa vary > > > depending on whether it is atmakarka or ... gnatikaraka ... etc.? > > > > > > Q3. How does charakarakattwa get influenced by the awastha (age) > of > > > the planet. Atmakaraka could be in the last degrees of a sign > and > > > dead, or it could be in lesser degree and youthful? Will this > > > awastha show up in the expression of chara karakattwa? > > > > > > Q4. It makes sense that chara karakattwa would work with chara > > rashi > > > dashas. But, would the charakarakattwa also be expressed during > the > > > dasha of the planet in vimshottari dasha? Would the vim dasha or > > > bhukti of atmakaraka have a different flavour in another > horoscope > > > with same dasha, but the planet being darakaraka or some other > > > karaka? > > > > > > Q5. Influence of charakaraka that is retrograde? Some say that > > > retrograde planets should be counted in reverse? From the end of > > the > > > rashi or from the point of retrogression? Let us say mars began > > > retrograding from 26th degree of a sign and now is at 23 > degrees. > > > Would another planet that is direct and at 24 degrees be > considered > > > the atmakaraka or mars? > > > > > > Q6. If an individual experiences the vimshottari dasha or bhukti > of > > > a karaka and also of the sign in chara dasha scheme at the same > > > time, would there be a different experience? What kind?? > > > > > > More questions please and answers too! Imaginative but logical > > > responses welcome as long as they are stated clearly as > postulates > > > or surmises. Definitive opinions would be easier to accept if > > > accompanied by examples. The end-goal of astrology is for it to > > show > > > up in charts of real individuals. Otherwise, it remains > fictional! > > > > > > RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 okay! :-) RR , "Gaurav Sharma" <gauravkom> wrote: > Hello Rohini ji, > The point of dwadashamasha giving a glimpse into the > journey of at least a signficant fragment of the Soul is quite an > interesting one. I will explore that in detail with respect to > charakarakas (in rashis) but still i personally think that Shastyamsa > will reveal a lot more than any other varga. > > Gaurav > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > As I read this (quoting only your response to the first question), > > something clicked in with one of the recurring thoughts of mine > when > > I look at the chara scheme. The representation of rashi as the seed > > and manifestation of the whole (zodiac). The dwadashamsha is a > > significant varga and has been attributed to parents, which I > always > > thought of as the genetic hereditary map. Mind you, these are > > thoughts, not tested theories, yet! So, play with me, bear with me!! > > > > Should this make us explore the situation of the charakarakas (in > > rashis) with some extra inquisitiveness in the dwadashamasha chart? > > Does the dwadashamsha chart hold a key that is more meaningful than > > just the physical aspect of genes and heritage or maybe we are > being > > given a glimpse into the journey of at least a signficant (for this > > lifetime) fragment of the Soul? > > > > This is one situation where one must look into their own charts and > > see if there is a pattern. No need to share publicly, of course! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Gaurav Sharma" > > <gauravkom> wrote: > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > Here s my effort to answer the questions of Rohini ji, others are > > > welcome to share there opinion. They are at will with reason to > > > differ from mine. > > > > > > Q1. What could be the basis of the most advanced planet in any > > rashi > > > being the atmakaraka? The next amatya karaka, etc.? > > > > > > The basis for the most advanced planet in any rashi being the > > > atmakarka can be referred to sloka BPHS 34.3-8 of BPHS which > > states > > > that while calculating the order of karakas the planet with the > > > highest degrees, minutes and seconds (irrespective of the > occupied > > > sign) will become the Atmakaraka. Also the reference can be found > > in > > > Jamaini`s system of Chara karakas. The reason why the AtmaKaraka > > is > > > associated with the most advanced planet can be seen from the > > meaning > > > of the word AtmaKaraka, Atma meaning 'soul' or in other words > self > > > and Karaka meaning 'significator'. Hence the inner meaning is > > > conveyed by the word is 'Self-indicator'. Perhaps once we talk > > about > > > ultimate goal of Atma, it is indeed the Atma merging with the > > highest > > > Atma called the ParamAtma as mentioned in Bhagwad Gita. The > > highest > > > degree conferred by a planet is an indicator that it has tread > the > > > path more than anyone else hence the most advanced planet is > > > associated with AK. > > > > > > AK indicates the force of the soul to achieve a certain goal and > > the > > > goal of all Atma`s is to reach the final destination. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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