regarding 6th 8th and 12thlord

June 8, 2004

> dear sir,

>

> In what way does the lord of the 12th in 12th(saturn) with ketu can give

> freedom from wordly bindings ?.does he give in constructive or destructive way

> (i.e by meditation or by serving the poor or low class.?does he give stay in

> foreign land in his mahadasa?

Dear friends,

Sorry if I appear to be quite slow with my answers but I have rather very

little free time to enjoy the chatting with you. I only get to my messages

from time to time )

1) The Short version )

Shani and 12th are sharing the same Karakatwas. They both aspire to go

beyond, to transcend. The "loss quality" expressed the direction of

transcendence, less and less and less till you are left with the essential,

Pure Consciousness.

Binding is coming when experiences of relative life are overshadowing the

experience (or lack of experience of Universality) of your Self. All

technique like Deep Meditation, Service etc... are ways to expand or

"forget" the limitation of your small self, bringing a more detached way to

look and experience relative life. From all the means to glorify Shani, I

think that Deep Meditation or Direct Practice of Turiya Chetana, is the

Royal Way!

Ketu is adding deepth of Insight but also "Mastery" in the experience of

transcending and the experience of Pure Consciousness. We are leaving with

Ketu the realm of Dogmas or Religion, we find ourselves more attracted by

the vedantic aspect of knowledge, its essential Purity and the desire for

direct experience born from past karma. In a way we are adding skill to

Shani.

But you will understand that this is a vedantic way to look at a chart...

and because Jyotish is the Science of The pure light of Consciousness,

vedanta is an "absolute" way to look at a result... This is always true as

Pure Consciousness is the Ultimate reality for everyone... And this is a

choice, a point of view to see only the very best in all the potential

situations ) So to the question does Shani gives in constructive or

destructive way, I can only say that as a potential situation, even if there

would only be a flickering light for success... the best it should be )

Now, more seriously (actually I was serious ) to know more about the

quality of a potential result, one should look at the Lagna, Chandra, Surya,

Nakshatras, Navamsha, etc... to see to what extent we can give more

insurance about the success of the situation.

For Sanjay, Inder has given quite an extensive aspect of the potentiality of

His Chart and about a problematic Surya. Inder is right but Sanjay has the

courage of a warrior so Mangal should be the lever used to bring any choice

to reflect the level of his highest aspirations.

1) The Long version )

I think that the first question would be why this worldly bindings, why this

identification to the world? The answer seems very "final": because it is

the nature of Relative Life, this is the nature of Chandas (matter, the most

expressed field of Consciousness)...

In the Field of Consciousness, what you see, you become! Moksha is Unity but

Ignorance is "Unity" also )... the difference... the binding influence of

the experiences.

This is the power of Chandas. We feel WE ARE this body, WE think this or

that, WE feel this or that, We look at a flower and for a brief instant WE

ARE nothing else but this flower, WE ARE Happy then WE ARE only misery...

Why this binding?... Because we are not Our Self anymore! What we ARE, has

been forgotten, We have lost the experience of our own inner nature,

infinite and absolute Consciousness... Atma. We have lost the connection

with the most fundamental, the most stable, immovable, infinite and most

harmonious state of Consciousness. Without being established in Our SELF,

all our experiences are like building a huge castle on quicksands...

Solution is simple isn't it? We have to put our life in touch with our SELF

again )

The available commentaries found commonly in the Indian literature have a

very strong "monky" or renunciative aspect attached to it. Destroy your

ego... Understand that everything is Absolute, feel Absolute, Abandon your

desires, Be a witness to the world, Renounce to the fruit of action, etc...

Destroy everything that you are, and maybe... maybe... if everything is

going smoothly, you will be left with what has Always BEEN...Your SELF...

....Then the very practical man of today would say... this is all nice but

thank you, it's not for me! This is Full Time Job! And I have a dharma, a

social life, a family, a lot of responsibilities, and a strong desire to

enjoy... Or maybe I'll go into Bhakti so I would at least enjoy something...

No maybe next life or when I will grow old I'll think about it...

And somewhere this practical man is right as spirituality is Wholeness,

Fullness. Spirituality is the fulfillment of Artha, Kama, Dharma and Moksha,

and not Moksha at the cost of Artha, Kama and Dharma... 200% of Life, 100%

Relative Life on the base of 100% Absolute Life.

So is seems that Householders have fallen in a cosmic trap? But what if the

solution has always been there? The Solution lies in the Heart of our Dear

Lord Shani.

It is difficult to understand in term of Jyotish. Jyotish is labeling some

Grahas as malefics some as benefic... will Shani be always grief and

obstables? So what about Sat Yuga? Even nearer to our time, what about Ram

Raj? A golden age that has been known for its universal harmony; people were

happy, prosperous, no suffering, no misery, no sickness, seasons were coming

on time, crops were abundant, social relations were loving and nourishing,

animals were happy, etc... harmony, harmony, harmony... What were doing

malefic Grahas at that time? Planets were still following their course,

Jyotish rules were still vedic, universal truth!

I think that there is a practical Knowledge (the jewel of Ved) that is

enjoying to play at "hide and seek" with us! But the fluctuations of Human

Collective Consciousness on our Dear Planet are just expressions of the

value of Times and God's Cosmic Purpose.

Amongst many qualities, Shani represents "Diving in" or Deep Meditation. Do

not look at Shani as a separate or foreign Planet floating in space and

winking at you from time to time... it's an aspect of your own human

personality; it's a natural aspect of your own being. It is as natural for

us to introspect or to "dive in" than to breathe, eat or sleep... and it is

as vital! This is the reason why, hindering, inhibiting or frustrating such

a vital aspect of the nature of human life can bring terrible results of

accumulated grief etc... for which Shani is too commonly known.

Is it simple to Dive in?... This is the most simple and natural thing in

life, the most charming (Gopal's Flute)... No control, no expectations, the

simplicity of a child. Why is it so hard and unnatural for some people?

Because, for thousands of years we have learned to do things, to act (mainly

to react) in the relative field... our senses, our mind, allways turned

outside to deal with the field of action... It creates automatisms, some we

are not even aware of... they want to have their share in the process... and

they can be very sneaky.

The role of Deep Meditation is not to do something but to learn to "Not Do"

things ourselves. This is not INERTIA, this is a special way (It has still

to be learned) to open to Mother Nature Who Knows best what has to be done

for our evolution in the Play of Her Cosmic purpose. Do not be fooled by the

simplicity... this is the Greatest Bhakti! This is the realm of Parama

Shakti or Higher First!

The process is so beautiful that it develops great power of concentration in

the SAME time that it expands the mind experiencing ultimately the most

simple and most natural state of Pure Consciousness. The direct experience

of transcendental bliss gives such a great contentment that the joys of the

relative world fail to make a deep impression, and we rise progressively

above the binding influence of action. From that point... and this is Ketu's

blessing, everything is possible... laws and values can change... You will

lead at the altar of the greatest yagna.

As the Lord said: "In this, no effort is lost and no obstacle exists. Even a

little of this dharma delivers from great fear."

Shani is confrontation with fears and insecurities... Roots of fear are

found when immortality is lost in its identification with death... when we

lose the fullness of absolute Atma in our interaction with the field of

relative life.

12th House is Bhava where Sani feels at home... they espouse the same values

(Karakatwas). They want to go beyond good or bad, they want what is right,

they want to go beyond pleasure and suffering, they want Bliss... above the

dual values of Life. They want transcendence and ultimately Spiritual

Liberation (Moksha).

They can express the renunciative value of Life but also inertia (loss of

Self if not expressed in a Spiritual direction could become a total waste of

life) in the sense of "escaping"... destructive value of life or

hospitalization or imprisonment... Shani is carrying karmic and restrictive

burdens...

So there's always a choice... And the strength needed to chose will be

confirmed by the other Grahas, the Nakshatras, the Navamsa etc... But when

the right choice is taken or when the time is ripe, then the door will open

and the flow of God's Light will gush in your life to turn death to

immortality and relative life to a glorious field of all possibilities...

you'll be beyond Jyotish... You'll be the master of your own creation...

your credo? the Spontaneous Will of God.

This situation could become even more emphasized when joined with the

powerful Ketu.

Now what about Ketu? I will not speak too much about Ketu as you will think

that this is not going to be an email anymore but a real "saga" )

Ketu is an extremely spiritual Graha. Ketu deals with Mastery over the

Absolute... this is a very complementary position with Shani... Ketu/Rahu

doesn't have a body... He is the Gap or the point value of Consciousness...

He is Ganapati the Pure embodiment of Rig Ved... Rahu/Ketu is Samyama, He is

Siddhi or Perfection.

Shani and Ketu are very "demanding" as they are calling you for Divine

"transformation". Their combined Depth could frighten you sometimes but

change could be smooth even if IT IS a very dramatic and traumatic

experience. When you read the Gita about this huge experience of War on the

Kurukshetra... you can imagine that, Yourself, is that field... this war is

taking place in each of us. Let us be the smiling witness of this process in

our aspiration to be a child of Beauty and a Master (servant) to the gentle

and nourrishing values of Life.

Best Regards )

Jean

June 10, 2004

dear sir,

thanks for your answer.

though it was long it was very nice it shows how much knowledge you are having

in spirutality .Every person should kill his ego to rise deep in to spirutal

knowledge and see the lord in everyone irrespective of caste,creed and religion

which binding us in this materialistic world .

thanking you once again

srinivas rao

Jean CLEMENT <tashrif wrote: