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To Surya : Boundaries of Jyotish Remedies, the

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Hi Surya,

 

We sure need to Chill Out!! :)

 

Yes, I would come up with the Earth as a malefic writeup soon. It

just takes a lot of pain to put in the views in black and white...

 

Well, here's the answer to ur question about my pin pointing this

issue in public:

 

1. I questioned, did not act. Challenge is not a mode of showing

disrespect but rather showing that u regard someone equal and u r

brave enough to accept defeat.

 

2. Only the moderator was not involved in this discussion but many

other members were and so I had put the message on the group to voice

my thoughts.

 

3. No I donot mean to say that anyone not from the group can be

ridiculed but I mean to say that if someone has done so, he/she

should not be pounced upon.

 

Some really FUNNY stuff for you Surya:

 

Surya, u know a VERY FUNNY thing. This mails is not invented by the

member who has posted this message and been a subject of ridicule.

This mail was in my office inbox from the first week of MAY.

 

And u know another funny thing Surya. Check the list, the particular

member has not posted a single mail to justify his/her cause.

However, we, as the group of members did not refrain from commenting

on this subject and kept on pouncing on the same topic.

 

I am posting this mail on the group b'coz u asked me some questions

PUBLICLY, so I need to answer them PUBLICLY too :) :)

 

Another thing, about ignoring the ADMIN'S mail or approaching the

moderator directly/personally about this issue:

I have voiced my thoughts, challenged authority with Reason, Logic

and Truth. I donot consider it showing disrespect.

 

I would really like to know, off the list or in the list, what do u

Surya consider a Disrespect???

 

Just to pinch in my thoughts, I didnot consider ur mail a disrespect

but some really valid questions from a questionning mind. Ur queries

are most welcome!! :)

 

Regards,

 

Souvik

, surya vishnubhotla

<surya_prakashv> wrote:

> Dear Souvik,

>

> While I appreciate your concerns .. you should realise

> that there is something called disciplin as well ...

>

> Maybe what tanvir did was a little sharp .. but in a

> group where there is very very little scope of

> personal interaction and where you are judged only by

> a few key strokes that you put in .. I do not believe

> it's wrong to make an example of someone who has

> stepped out of line and invited concern of others ...

>

> Do you mean to say that anyone not from the group can

> become an object of ridicule and everyone from within

> should be soft to all the people involving in

> senseless propoganda in the name of mutual respect??

>

> Just like we should have ignored the mail (as you

> rightly pointed out) on sonia gandhi ... I believe you

> should ignore what tanvir did as well ... at least it

> would have been more helpful to send a mail to tanvir

> to reconsider his decision rather than to challenge

> his decision ...

>

> There is no hypocracy involved .. simply because I

> dont beleive anyone from the list is beyond reason ..

>

> What happened to your theory man??? I am still waiting

> !!!! Let me defend mother earth and become a

> international hero :) !!

>

> Chill out

> Surya.

>

> --- OM <explore_vulcan> wrote:

> > Dear Mark,

> >

> > Excellent article. I too bow to the Guru and I agree

> > that one should

> > show respect to HIM. It is although a personal view

> > that I bow also

> > to the Guru in ME. And Mark all Gurus also have a

> > LEARNER in HIM/HER.

> >

> > However, that is not my question. My question is a

> > student has shown

> > disrespect to his/her Guru. The Guru has always

> > taught that the

> > student should NEVER show disrespect to ANYONE. In

> > such a situation

> > will the GURU PUBLICLY HUMILIATE THE STUDENT,

> > thereby DEFYING HIS OWN

> > NORMS.

> >

> > THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!

> >

> > THEN WHY THIS HYPOCRISY OF PREACHING TO RESPECT

> > OTHERS!!! DOESN'T A

> > DISRESPECTFUL STUDENT FALL UNDER THE "OTHERS"

> > CATEGORY???????????????

> >

> > I hope I could convey my idea!!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Souvik

> > , Mark

> > Kincaid

> > <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > There's this beautiful tradition both in the West

> > and the East...

> > >

> > > that we 'respect' each other...

> > >

> > > In the West, the student approaches the teacher,

> > with apple in

> > hand...

> > > and in the East...

> > >

> > > the student bows down and prostrates oneself...in

> > front of his

> > teacher...

> > >

> > > As a professional teacher for many years, I'm

> > aware of the delicate

> > > relationship that exists between someone who

> > wishes to learn...and

> > those

> > > who can teach....

> > >

> > > One Guru in India in fact has said: "when a

> > student approaches the

> > teacher,

> > > respectfully, his behavior....can have the effect

> > of inspiring the

> > teacher,

> > > to rise high in waves of inspiration for his

> > teaching as a result."

> > >

> > > Yogananda's teacher, Shri Yuketeswar, once said of

> > one of his

> > disciples,

> > > students, who did not do what his teacher, Guru,

> > recomeneded....

> > > said:

> > >

> > > "the world now is his Guru"...

> > >

> > > So, if we're going to be students and teachers to

> > each other, I'd

> > suggest we

> > > follow this wonderful guide line for

> > interaction....

> > >

> > > I personally, don't mind a doubting or skeptical

> > person or student.

> > >

> > > What bothers me is someone who's cruel, or

> > especially negative,

> > that effects

> > > everyone with their attitude....

> > >

> > > Especially, since we at 'jyotish remedies' are

> > researching the very

> > > important role in how we can literally

> > transform...our Jyotish into

> > a more

> > > beneficial, benefic, even sattvic situation...

> > >

> > > I don't think it's too much to ask for this kind

> > of respect Tanvir

> > mentions.

> > >

> > > I personally, would leave it up to the Moderator,

> > owner, as it is

> > his

> > > intention that we are following....

> > >

> > > Jai Guru!

> > >

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > "OM" <explore_vulcan>

> > > >

> > > > Wed, 19 May 2004 16:14:34 -0000

> > > >

> > > > To the Moderators and Members :

> > Boundaries of

> > Jyotish Remedies,

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > > Hi Moderators and Members,

> > > >

> > > > A very sensitive issue has been put forward by

> > Tanvir, the owner

> > of

> > > > JR. The issue of the boundaries of Jyotish

> > Remedies, the

> > Group.

> > > >

> > > > I would like to put forward my views on this

> > subject:

> > > >

> > > > The introduction page:

> > > > This '' discussion list is owned

> > by me, Tanvir

> > > > Chowdhury. This list of Vedic Astrology is a

> > platform for both

> > > > beginners and experts to discuss on chart

> > analysis, remedial

> > measures

> > > > and all other related topics.

> > > > '' list is to ensure a friendly,

> > respectful sphere

> > > > for a free exchange of ideas and thoughts.

> > Please put your

> > opinion in

> > > > a gentle and polite manner so that it does not

> > disrespect anyone.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I would express my concern as a member of this

> > group to two

> > phrases

> > > > of this introduction page:

> > > > 1. "related topics"

> > > > 2. "does not disrespect anyone"

> > > >

> > > > 1. Jyotish Remedies is related to Jyotish and

> > Jyotish is related

> > to

> > > > Time. Every occurance in the world is related to

> > time and hence

> > > > jyotish. So I would request a boundary to this

> > "relation".

> > > >

> > > > 2. I absolutely agree with this part but here to

> > I post a

> > question.

> > > > What is disrespect? Is it stating truth in an

> > unacceptable way

> > (which

> > > > may be taken as a disrespect to someone) or

> > being hypocrite

> > enough to

> > > > shun away the burnt side of the face (which may

> > be considered

> > > > respectful for some).

> > > >

> > > > I have something more to state. This with

> > reference to a mail by a

> > > > member with subject line "Sonia maid in UK....".

> > > >

> > > > This was a political mail. This mail showed

> > disrespect to an

> > > > individual. Agreed on all these points.

> > > >

> > > > BUT the FACT remains that MANY MEMBERS not only

> > read the mail but

> > > > also DIDNOT REFRAIN FROM Publicly CRTICISING the

> > MAIL and THE MAIL

> > > > POSTER. If one sees the chain of mails, one need

> > not think twice

> > that

> > > > it was not a astro group but a political one.

> > MEMBERS responded,

> > and

> > > > THEY DID SO WITH ENERGY.

> > > >

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Souvik,

 

Let all this be .. u have put ur view across .. but u

have done it too strongly ("hypocracy" hurts !!) ..

it's best not to react .. sometimes it;s ok to react

.... it's never good to over react ...

 

U have to consider that a strong Congress supporter

who reads a mail like that will strongly react to that

mail even if it was just a fwd mail !! ... and that

mail in no sense was glorifying .. it was derogatory

of Sonia gandhi .. and whoever originated it or

propagated it should realise that by allowing that

mail they are subscribing to such thoughts !!

 

Of course ... it cud have been a casual fwd as well!!

.... but net is filled with people hiding under assumed

names and being nasty !!

 

Good to see you stand for someone u dont even know !!

 

Let all this be now .. I am still waiting for my

chance to save mother earth ;)

 

 

--- OM <explore_vulcan wrote:

> Hi Surya,

>

> We sure need to Chill Out!! :)

>

> Yes, I would come up with the Earth as a malefic

> writeup soon. It

> just takes a lot of pain to put in the views in

> black and white...

>

> Well, here's the answer to ur question about my pin

> pointing this

> issue in public:

>

> 1. I questioned, did not act. Challenge is not a

> mode of showing

> disrespect but rather showing that u regard someone

> equal and u r

> brave enough to accept defeat.

>

> 2. Only the moderator was not involved in this

> discussion but many

> other members were and so I had put the message on

> the group to voice

> my thoughts.

>

> 3. No I donot mean to say that anyone not from the

> group can be

> ridiculed but I mean to say that if someone has done

> so, he/she

> should not be pounced upon.

>

> Some really FUNNY stuff for you Surya:

>

> Surya, u know a VERY FUNNY thing. This mails is not

> invented by the

> member who has posted this message and been a

> subject of ridicule.

> This mail was in my office inbox from the first week

> of MAY.

>

> And u know another funny thing Surya. Check the

> list, the particular

> member has not posted a single mail to justify

> his/her cause.

> However, we, as the group of members did not refrain

> from commenting

> on this subject and kept on pouncing on the same

> topic.

>

> I am posting this mail on the group b'coz u asked me

> some questions

> PUBLICLY, so I need to answer them PUBLICLY too :)

> :)

>

> Another thing, about ignoring the ADMIN'S mail or

> approaching the

> moderator directly/personally about this issue:

> I have voiced my thoughts, challenged authority with

> Reason, Logic

> and Truth. I donot consider it showing disrespect.

>

> I would really like to know, off the list or in the

> list, what do u

> Surya consider a Disrespect???

>

> Just to pinch in my thoughts, I didnot consider ur

> mail a disrespect

> but some really valid questions from a questionning

> mind. Ur queries

> are most welcome!! :)

>

> Regards,

>

> Souvik

> , surya

> vishnubhotla

> <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > Dear Souvik,

> >

> > While I appreciate your concerns .. you should

> realise

> > that there is something called disciplin as well

> ...

> >

> > Maybe what tanvir did was a little sharp .. but in

> a

> > group where there is very very little scope of

> > personal interaction and where you are judged only

> by

> > a few key strokes that you put in .. I do not

> believe

> > it's wrong to make an example of someone who has

> > stepped out of line and invited concern of others

> ...

> >

> > Do you mean to say that anyone not from the group

> can

> > become an object of ridicule and everyone from

> within

> > should be soft to all the people involving in

> > senseless propoganda in the name of mutual

> respect??

> >

> > Just like we should have ignored the mail (as you

> > rightly pointed out) on sonia gandhi ... I believe

> you

> > should ignore what tanvir did as well ... at least

> it

> > would have been more helpful to send a mail to

> tanvir

> > to reconsider his decision rather than to

> challenge

> > his decision ...

> >

> > There is no hypocracy involved .. simply because I

> > dont beleive anyone from the list is beyond reason

> ..

> >

> > What happened to your theory man??? I am still

> waiting

> > !!!! Let me defend mother earth and become a

> > international hero :) !!

> >

> > Chill out

> > Surya.

> >

> > --- OM <explore_vulcan> wrote:

> > > Dear Mark,

> > >

> > > Excellent article. I too bow to the Guru and I

> agree

> > > that one should

> > > show respect to HIM. It is although a personal

> view

> > > that I bow also

> > > to the Guru in ME. And Mark all Gurus also have

> a

> > > LEARNER in HIM/HER.

> > >

> > > However, that is not my question. My question is

> a

> > > student has shown

> > > disrespect to his/her Guru. The Guru has always

> > > taught that the

> > > student should NEVER show disrespect to ANYONE.

> In

> > > such a situation

> > > will the GURU PUBLICLY HUMILIATE THE STUDENT,

> > > thereby DEFYING HIS OWN

> > > NORMS.

> > >

> > > THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!

> > >

> > > THEN WHY THIS HYPOCRISY OF PREACHING TO RESPECT

> > > OTHERS!!! DOESN'T A

> > > DISRESPECTFUL STUDENT FALL UNDER THE "OTHERS"

> > > CATEGORY???????????????

> > >

> > > I hope I could convey my idea!!

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Souvik

> > > , Mark

> > > Kincaid

> > > <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > > There's this beautiful tradition both in the

> West

> > > and the East...

> > > >

> > > > that we 'respect' each other...

> > > >

> > > > In the West, the student approaches the

> teacher,

> > > with apple in

> > > hand...

> > > > and in the East...

> > > >

> > > > the student bows down and prostrates

> oneself...in

> > > front of his

> > > teacher...

> > > >

> > > > As a professional teacher for many years, I'm

> > > aware of the delicate

> > > > relationship that exists between someone who

> > > wishes to learn...and

> > > those

> > > > who can teach....

> > > >

> > > > One Guru in India in fact has said: "when a

> > > student approaches the

> > > teacher,

> > > > respectfully, his behavior....can have the

> effect

> > > of inspiring the

> > > teacher,

> > > > to rise high in waves of inspiration for his

> > > teaching as a result."

> > > >

> > > > Yogananda's teacher, Shri Yuketeswar, once

> said

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest guest

Hey Surya,

 

Who did not agree that the mail was wrong. Yes, it should not have

been posted to this group and the member has made a mistake. I never

disagree with that.

 

But after this post has the member again posted such a mail?? Infact,

has the member posted any mail at all??

 

Every human being is given an oppurtunity to correct a mistake. My

point was that why wasn't the member given a warning and if the same

scene continued the moderator could have taken the steps. This was my

first point.

 

Why this action without warning? Why this demonstration of power?

 

Anyway, I could just shud my shoulders and say that "I am not

concerned, why should I worry!" but no I am not doing anything great!!

 

I am also selfish by doing this act. I am satisfying my ego, my

conscious by voicing by feelings. This is giving me immense

satisfaction. The satisfaction of being heard.

 

Yes friend I would come up with the article very soon...

 

Cheers!!

 

Souvik

 

, surya vishnubhotla

<surya_prakashv> wrote:

> Souvik,

>

> Let all this be .. u have put ur view across .. but u

> have done it too strongly ("hypocracy" hurts !!) ..

> it's best not to react .. sometimes it;s ok to react

> ... it's never good to over react ...

>

> U have to consider that a strong Congress supporter

> who reads a mail like that will strongly react to that

> mail even if it was just a fwd mail !! ... and that

> mail in no sense was glorifying .. it was derogatory

> of Sonia gandhi .. and whoever originated it or

> propagated it should realise that by allowing that

> mail they are subscribing to such thoughts !!

>

> Of course ... it cud have been a casual fwd as well!!

> ... but net is filled with people hiding under assumed

> names and being nasty !!

>

> Good to see you stand for someone u dont even know !!

>

> Let all this be now .. I am still waiting for my

> chance to save mother earth ;)

>

>

> --- OM <explore_vulcan> wrote:

> > Hi Surya,

> >

> > We sure need to Chill Out!! :)

> >

> > Yes, I would come up with the Earth as a malefic

> > writeup soon. It

> > just takes a lot of pain to put in the views in

> > black and white...

> >

> > Well, here's the answer to ur question about my pin

> > pointing this

> > issue in public:

> >

> > 1. I questioned, did not act. Challenge is not a

> > mode of showing

> > disrespect but rather showing that u regard someone

> > equal and u r

> > brave enough to accept defeat.

> >

> > 2. Only the moderator was not involved in this

> > discussion but many

> > other members were and so I had put the message on

> > the group to voice

> > my thoughts.

> >

> > 3. No I donot mean to say that anyone not from the

> > group can be

> > ridiculed but I mean to say that if someone has done

> > so, he/she

> > should not be pounced upon.

> >

> > Some really FUNNY stuff for you Surya:

> >

> > Surya, u know a VERY FUNNY thing. This mails is not

> > invented by the

> > member who has posted this message and been a

> > subject of ridicule.

> > This mail was in my office inbox from the first week

> > of MAY.

> >

> > And u know another funny thing Surya. Check the

> > list, the particular

> > member has not posted a single mail to justify

> > his/her cause.

> > However, we, as the group of members did not refrain

> > from commenting

> > on this subject and kept on pouncing on the same

> > topic.

> >

> > I am posting this mail on the group b'coz u asked me

> > some questions

> > PUBLICLY, so I need to answer them PUBLICLY too :)

> > :)

> >

> > Another thing, about ignoring the ADMIN'S mail or

> > approaching the

> > moderator directly/personally about this issue:

> > I have voiced my thoughts, challenged authority with

> > Reason, Logic

> > and Truth. I donot consider it showing disrespect.

> >

> > I would really like to know, off the list or in the

> > list, what do u

> > Surya consider a Disrespect???

> >

> > Just to pinch in my thoughts, I didnot consider ur

> > mail a disrespect

> > but some really valid questions from a questionning

> > mind. Ur queries

> > are most welcome!! :)

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Souvik

> > , surya

> > vishnubhotla

> > <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > > Dear Souvik,

> > >

> > > While I appreciate your concerns .. you should

> > realise

> > > that there is something called disciplin as well

> > ...

> > >

> > > Maybe what tanvir did was a little sharp .. but in

> > a

> > > group where there is very very little scope of

> > > personal interaction and where you are judged only

> > by

> > > a few key strokes that you put in .. I do not

> > believe

> > > it's wrong to make an example of someone who has

> > > stepped out of line and invited concern of others

> > ...

> > >

> > > Do you mean to say that anyone not from the group

> > can

> > > become an object of ridicule and everyone from

> > within

> > > should be soft to all the people involving in

> > > senseless propoganda in the name of mutual

> > respect??

> > >

> > > Just like we should have ignored the mail (as you

> > > rightly pointed out) on sonia gandhi ... I believe

> > you

> > > should ignore what tanvir did as well ... at least

> > it

> > > would have been more helpful to send a mail to

> > tanvir

> > > to reconsider his decision rather than to

> > challenge

> > > his decision ...

> > >

> > > There is no hypocracy involved .. simply because I

> > > dont beleive anyone from the list is beyond reason

> > ..

> > >

> > > What happened to your theory man??? I am still

> > waiting

> > > !!!! Let me defend mother earth and become a

> > > international hero :) !!

> > >

> > > Chill out

> > > Surya.

> > >

> > > --- OM <explore_vulcan> wrote:

> > > > Dear Mark,

> > > >

> > > > Excellent article. I too bow to the Guru and I

> > agree

> > > > that one should

> > > > show respect to HIM. It is although a personal

> > view

> > > > that I bow also

> > > > to the Guru in ME. And Mark all Gurus also have

> > a

> > > > LEARNER in HIM/HER.

> > > >

> > > > However, that is not my question. My question is

> > a

> > > > student has shown

> > > > disrespect to his/her Guru. The Guru has always

> > > > taught that the

> > > > student should NEVER show disrespect to ANYONE.

> > In

> > > > such a situation

> > > > will the GURU PUBLICLY HUMILIATE THE STUDENT,

> > > > thereby DEFYING HIS OWN

> > > > NORMS.

> > > >

> > > > THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > >

> > > > THEN WHY THIS HYPOCRISY OF PREACHING TO RESPECT

> > > > OTHERS!!! DOESN'T A

> > > > DISRESPECTFUL STUDENT FALL UNDER THE "OTHERS"

> > > > CATEGORY???????????????

> > > >

> > > > I hope I could convey my idea!!

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Souvik

> > > > , Mark

> > > > Kincaid

> > > > <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > > > There's this beautiful tradition both in the

> > West

> > > > and the East...

> > > > >

> > > > > that we 'respect' each other...

> > > > >

> > > > > In the West, the student approaches the

> > teacher,

> > > > with apple in

> > > > hand...

> > > > > and in the East...

> > > > >

> > > > > the student bows down and prostrates

> > oneself...in

> > > > front of his

> > > > teacher...

> > > > >

> > > > > As a professional teacher for many years, I'm

> > > > aware of the delicate

> > > > > relationship that exists between someone who

> > > > wishes to learn...and

> > > > those

> > > > > who can teach....

> > > > >

> > > > > One Guru in India in fact has said: "when a

> > > > student approaches the

> > > > teacher,

> > > > > respectfully, his behavior....can have the

> > effect

> > > > of inspiring the

> > > > teacher,

> > > > > to rise high in waves of inspiration for his

> > > > teaching as a result."

> > > > >

> > > > > Yogananda's teacher, Shri Yuketeswar, once

> > said

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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