Ista Devatha .. More thoughts (The Truth )

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohini Ji:

 

Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I can

based on my understanding.

 

9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

10th is Karma

11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

 

Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our

dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these groups.

But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between Dharma

and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes

precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of 9th and

lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The conjunction of

Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of 10

without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the true

nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

 

If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance of

12th becomes very significant from each house.

 

Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from previous

cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing

through our karmic deeds in this life.

 

Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the karmic

nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th (vyaya)

from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will

assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The

Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that is the

bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as Moksha.

 

Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. There

is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose oneSelf

in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or any

devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and not as

the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does not

matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him Only.

 

For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true mantra

repetition.

 

Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we have died

in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we shall

find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

 

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

 

Om Tat Sat.

 

Best Wishes.

 

--Sanjay Aggarwal

jyotish_tat_sat

 

 

 

 

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is the

list

> coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list is

> quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, of

> course :-)

>

> your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen others

> refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions, and

> venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link between

> Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics (I

> think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

>

> We are working with two variables here:

> 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with ishta devta

> 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow

>

> There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who recommends

using

> the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar is

the

> karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should look at

> the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. I

> recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an example

> of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use the

> karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi chart

> (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the

> placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart for

> gauging effects)

>

> Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga with

rahu.

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Dear Rohini Ji:

> >

> > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from karakamsa

has

> > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of those

> planets

> > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet which is

> > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the

> indicator

> > for IstaDevata in this case.

> >

> > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example Dhanus and

> > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> >

> > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi Ji ;

> > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> >

> > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will

become

> a

> > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under somebody.

> If

> > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great significance

for

> > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego).

> >

> > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of Sukra,

> the

> > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or

> religious

> > sacrifices.

> >

> > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> >

> > Om Tat Sat.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > jyotish_tat_sat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Sanjay,

> > >

> > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an empty

> dhanus

> > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as ishta

> > devta?

> > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was pisces

> > instead

> > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that surya

> > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva.

> > >

> > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from AK)?

> Which

> > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be interested to

> probe

> > > this further.

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > >

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > >

> > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. So

Lord

> of

> > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for IstaDevata

> (since

> > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in this

> case

> > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > >

> > > > , "Raghu"

> > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > >

> > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the navamsa

> > becomes

> > > > the

> > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of the

> > > karakamsa

> > > > (

> > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be guru

of

> > > course

> > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > >

> > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

 

But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted email

below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary

symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) which is

different from what I have seen in classics or described elsewhere.

 

Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the fifth

house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used to tell

very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he claimed.

He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much more

details.

 

Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary

concordance to deities!

 

RR

 

 

, "saggarwal_4"

<saggarwal_4> wrote:

> Dear Rohini Ji:

>

> Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I can

> based on my understanding.

>

> 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> 10th is Karma

> 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

>

> Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our

> dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these groups.

> But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between Dharma

> and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes

> precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of 9th

and

> lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The conjunction

of

> Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of 10

> without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the true

> nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

>

> If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance of

> 12th becomes very significant from each house.

>

> Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from previous

> cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing

> through our karmic deeds in this life.

>

> Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the

karmic

> nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th (vyaya)

> from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will

> assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The

> Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that is

the

> bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as Moksha.

>

> Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. There

> is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose

oneSelf

> in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or any

> devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and not

as

> the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does not

> matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him Only.

>

> For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true

mantra

> repetition.

>

> Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we have

died

> in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we shall

> find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

>

> Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

>

> Om Tat Sat.

>

> Best Wishes.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal

> jyotish_tat_sat

>

>

>

>

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is the

> list

> > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list is

> > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, of

> > course :-)

> >

> > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen

others

> > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions, and

> > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link between

> > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics (I

> > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> >

> > We are working with two variables here:

> > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with ishta

devta

> > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow

> >

> > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who recommends

> using

> > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar is

> the

> > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should look

at

> > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. I

> > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an

example

> > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use the

> > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi

chart

> > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the

> > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart for

> > gauging effects)

> >

> > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga with

> rahu.

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > >

> > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from karakamsa

> has

> > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of those

> > planets

> > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet which

is

> > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the

> > indicator

> > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > >

> > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example Dhanus

and

> > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > >

> > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi Ji ;

> > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > >

> > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will

> become

> > a

> > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under

somebody.

> > If

> > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great significance

> for

> > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego).

> > >

> > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of

Sukra,

> > the

> > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or

> > religious

> > > sacrifices.

> > >

> > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > >

> > > Om Tat Sat.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Sanjay,

> > > >

> > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an empty

> > dhanus

> > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as

ishta

> > > devta?

> > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was pisces

> > > instead

> > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that surya

> > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva.

> > > >

> > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from AK)?

> > Which

> > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be interested to

> > probe

> > > > this further.

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > >

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > >

> > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. So

> Lord

> > of

> > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for IstaDevata

> > (since

> > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in this

> > case

> > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the navamsa

> > > becomes

> > > > > the

> > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of the

> > > > karakamsa

> > > > > (

> > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be guru

> of

> > > > course

> > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohini:

 

> But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted

email

> below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary

> symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

 

You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

 

There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity associated

with it. For this you have to read the significance and creation

behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each story

behind it.

 

For example:

 

Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it said

that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

 

Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is headless".

 

Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it

is "headless"?

 

I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to respond

to these questions.

 

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

 

Om Tat Sat.

 

Best Wishes.

 

--Sanjay Aggarwal

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

>

> But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted

email

> below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary

> symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) which

is

> different from what I have seen in classics or described elsewhere.

>

> Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the fifth

> house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used to

tell

> very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he claimed.

> He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much more

> details.

>

> Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary

> concordance to deities!

>

> RR

>

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Dear Rohini Ji:

> >

> > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I can

> > based on my understanding.

> >

> > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > 10th is Karma

> > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> >

> > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our

> > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these

groups.

> > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between

Dharma

> > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes

> > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of 9th

> and

> > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The conjunction

> of

> > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of 10

> > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the true

> > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

> >

> > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance

of

> > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> >

> > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from

previous

> > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing

> > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> >

> > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the

> karmic

> > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th

(vyaya)

> > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will

> > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The

> > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that is

> the

> > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as Moksha.

> >

> > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self.

There

> > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose

> oneSelf

> > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or

any

> > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and

not

> as

> > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does not

> > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him

Only.

> >

> > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true

> mantra

> > repetition.

> >

> > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we have

> died

> > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we shall

> > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> >

> > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> >

> > Om Tat Sat.

> >

> > Best Wishes.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > jyotish_tat_sat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is

the

> > list

> > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list

is

> > > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, of

> > > course :-)

> > >

> > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen

> others

> > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions,

and

> > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link

between

> > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics

(I

> > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> > >

> > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with ishta

> devta

> > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow

> > >

> > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who recommends

> > using

> > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar

is

> > the

> > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should look

> at

> > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. I

> > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an

> example

> > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use

the

> > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi

> chart

> > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the

> > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart

for

> > > gauging effects)

> > >

> > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga

with

> > rahu.

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > >

> > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from

karakamsa

> > has

> > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of those

> > > planets

> > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet which

> is

> > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the

> > > indicator

> > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > >

> > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example Dhanus

> and

> > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > >

> > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi

Ji ;

> > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > >

> > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will

> > become

> > > a

> > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under

> somebody.

> > > If

> > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great

significance

> > for

> > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego).

> > > >

> > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of

> Sukra,

> > > the

> > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or

> > > religious

> > > > sacrifices.

> > > >

> > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > >

> > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > >

> > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an

empty

> > > dhanus

> > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as

> ishta

> > > > devta?

> > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was

pisces

> > > > instead

> > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that surya

> > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva.

> > > > >

> > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from

AK)?

> > > Which

> > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be interested

to

> > > probe

> > > > > this further.

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > >

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. So

> > Lord

> > > of

> > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for IstaDevata

> > > (since

> > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in

this

> > > case

> > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the

navamsa

> > > > becomes

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of

the

> > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > (

> > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be

guru

> > of

> > > > > course

> > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

I was hoping that the association list would have a documented

footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream of

consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so fits

the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya

(Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance from

what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers.

 

The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'. Surely

the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly

represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of

these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, dashas,

combinations, etc).

 

In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one before

and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in Shivji

during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the three

or four generations surrounding me and their families, there is a

significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical

ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious symbols

that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more tolerant of

other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and ritual

symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is

towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that even

nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a personage/entity/unit

outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to brain, in

a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

 

During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force

myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma has

drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep returning back

to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation and

creator -- but one and not many forms.

 

While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds

intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest

limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which would

only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework (330

million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each if

the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it is

well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we

think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is

neither hindu nor atheistic.

 

Rohiniranjan

 

, "saggarwal_4"

<saggarwal_4> wrote:

> Dear Rohini:

>

> > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted

> email

> > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary

> > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

>

> You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

>

> There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity

associated

> with it. For this you have to read the significance and creation

> behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each story

> behind it.

>

> For example:

>

> Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it said

> that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

>

> Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is headless".

>

> Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it

> is "headless"?

>

> I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to

respond

> to these questions.

>

> Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

>

> Om Tat Sat.

>

> Best Wishes.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal

, "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> >

> > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted

> email

> > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary

> > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) which

> is

> > different from what I have seen in classics or described

elsewhere.

> >

> > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the fifth

> > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used to

> tell

> > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he

claimed.

> > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much

more

> > details.

> >

> > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary

> > concordance to deities!

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > >

> > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I

can

> > > based on my understanding.

> > >

> > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > 10th is Karma

> > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > >

> > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our

> > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these

> groups.

> > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between

> Dharma

> > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes

> > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of

9th

> > and

> > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The

conjunction

> > of

> > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of

10

> > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the

true

> > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

> > >

> > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance

> of

> > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > >

> > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from

> previous

> > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing

> > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > >

> > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the

> > karmic

> > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th

> (vyaya)

> > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will

> > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The

> > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that

is

> > the

> > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as

Moksha.

> > >

> > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self.

> There

> > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose

> > oneSelf

> > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or

> any

> > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and

> not

> > as

> > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does

not

> > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him

> Only.

> > >

> > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true

> > mantra

> > > repetition.

> > >

> > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we

have

> > died

> > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we

shall

> > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > >

> > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > >

> > > Om Tat Sat.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is

> the

> > > list

> > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list

> is

> > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish,

of

> > > > course :-)

> > > >

> > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen

> > others

> > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions,

> and

> > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link

> between

> > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics

> (I

> > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> > > >

> > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with

ishta

> > devta

> > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow

> > > >

> > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who

recommends

> > > using

> > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar

> is

> > > the

> > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should

look

> > at

> > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects.

I

> > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an

> > example

> > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use

> the

> > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi

> > chart

> > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the

> > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart

> for

> > > > gauging effects)

> > > >

> > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga

> with

> > > rahu.

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > >

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > >

> > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from

> karakamsa

> > > has

> > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of

those

> > > > planets

> > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet

which

> > is

> > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the

> > > > indicator

> > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > >

> > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example

Dhanus

> > and

> > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > >

> > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi

> Ji ;

> > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > >

> > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will

> > > become

> > > > a

> > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under

> > somebody.

> > > > If

> > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great

> significance

> > > for

> > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego).

> > > > >

> > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of

> > Sukra,

> > > > the

> > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or

> > > > religious

> > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an

> empty

> > > > dhanus

> > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as

> > ishta

> > > > > devta?

> > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was

> pisces

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that

surya

> > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from

> AK)?

> > > > Which

> > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be

interested

> to

> > > > probe

> > > > > > this further.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka.

So

> > > Lord

> > > > of

> > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for

IstaDevata

> > > > (since

> > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in

> this

> > > > case

> > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the

> navamsa

> > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of

> the

> > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be

> guru

> > > of

> > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohini Ji:

 

> While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds

> intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest

> limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which

would

> only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework

(330

> million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each

if

> the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it

is

> well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we

> think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is

> neither hindu nor atheistic.

 

--Point very well taken.

 

Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still. The

Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while it is

playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many waves

leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the ocean's

profoundity is not disturbed.

 

>Surely

> the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly

> represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of

> these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

dashas,

> combinations, etc).

 

 

My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self,

understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme Truth

dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere; however

He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in Him.

We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One.

 

Whatever there is, it is all Him.

 

To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the mantra.

For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

 

Om Tat Sat.

 

Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

 

--Sanjay Aggarwal.

 

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> I was hoping that the association list would have a documented

> footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream of

> consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so

fits

> the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya

> (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance from

> what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers.

>

> The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'.

Surely

> the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly

> represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of

> these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

dashas,

> combinations, etc).

>

> In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one

before

> and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in

Shivji

> during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the three

> or four generations surrounding me and their families, there is a

> significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical

> ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious symbols

> that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more tolerant

of

> other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and ritual

> symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is

> towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that even

> nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a personage/entity/unit

> outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to brain,

in

> a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

>

> During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force

> myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma has

> drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep returning

back

> to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation and

> creator -- but one and not many forms.

>

> While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds

> intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest

> limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which

would

> only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework

(330

> million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each

if

> the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it

is

> well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we

> think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is

> neither hindu nor atheistic.

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Dear Rohini:

> >

> > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted

> > email

> > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

planetary

> > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

> >

> > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> >

> > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity

> associated

> > with it. For this you have to read the significance and creation

> > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each

story

> > behind it.

> >

> > For example:

> >

> > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it

said

> > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> >

> > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is

headless".

> >

> > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it

> > is "headless"?

> >

> > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to

> respond

> > to these questions.

> >

> > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> >

> > Om Tat Sat.

> >

> > Best Wishes.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > >

> > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted

> > email

> > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

planetary

> > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

which

> > is

> > > different from what I have seen in classics or described

> elsewhere.

> > >

> > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the

fifth

> > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used

to

> > tell

> > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he

> claimed.

> > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much

> more

> > > details.

> > >

> > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary

> > > concordance to deities!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > >

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > >

> > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I

> can

> > > > based on my understanding.

> > > >

> > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > >

> > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is

our

> > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these

> > groups.

> > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between

> > Dharma

> > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes

> > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of

> 9th

> > > and

> > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The

> conjunction

> > > of

> > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord

of

> 10

> > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the

> true

> > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

> > > >

> > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The

importance

> > of

> > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > >

> > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from

> > previous

> > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly

changing

> > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > >

> > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows

the

> > > karmic

> > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th

> > (vyaya)

> > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which

will

> > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

surrender "The

> > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that

> is

> > > the

> > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as

> Moksha.

> > > >

> > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self.

> > There

> > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose

> > > oneSelf

> > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything

or

> > any

> > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means"

and

> > not

> > > as

> > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does

> not

> > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him

> > Only.

> > > >

> > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true

> > > mantra

> > > > repetition.

> > > >

> > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we

> have

> > > died

> > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we

> shall

> > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > >

> > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > >

> > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where

is

> > the

> > > > list

> > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your

list

> > is

> > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in

jyotish,

> of

> > > > > course :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen

> > > others

> > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other

religions,

> > and

> > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link

> > between

> > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the

classics

> > (I

> > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> > > > >

> > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with

> ishta

> > > devta

> > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to

follow

> > > > >

> > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who

> recommends

> > > > using

> > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if

makar

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should

> look

> > > at

> > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the

effects.

> I

> > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an

> > > example

> > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we

use

> > the

> > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the

rashi

> > > chart

> > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from

the

> > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi

chart

> > for

> > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > >

> > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga

> > with

> > > > rahu.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > >

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from

> > karakamsa

> > > > has

> > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of

> those

> > > > > planets

> > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet

> which

> > > is

> > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be

the

> > > > > indicator

> > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example

> Dhanus

> > > and

> > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra --

Mahalaxmi

> > Ji ;

> > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he

will

> > > > become

> > > > > a

> > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under

> > > somebody.

> > > > > If

> > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great

> > significance

> > > > for

> > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect

of

> > > Sukra,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas

or

> > > > > religious

> > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an

> > empty

> > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva

as

> > > ishta

> > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was

> > pisces

> > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that

> surya

> > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th

from

> > AK)?

> > > > > Which

> > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be

> interested

> > to

> > > > > probe

> > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by

Atmakaraka.

> So

> > > > Lord

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for

> IstaDevata

> > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which

in

> > this

> > > > > case

> > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the

> > navamsa

> > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord

of

> > the

> > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would

be

> > guru

> > > > of

> > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Sanjay,

 

Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is

difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity into

simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one magical

indicator etc.

 

Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to capture

Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we preach,

because:

 

God is probably not a being or entity

probably does not have gender

 

When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages, books

after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals, not

ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can we

satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such

specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your ishta-

devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more

correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with those kind

of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like many

such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

 

Cordially,

 

Rohiniranjan

 

 

, "saggarwal_4"

<saggarwal_4> wrote:

> Dear Rohini Ji:

>

> > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds

> > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

biggest

> > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which

> would

> > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework

> (330

> > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into

each

> if

> > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if

it

> is

> > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we

> > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is

> > neither hindu nor atheistic.

>

> --Point very well taken.

>

> Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still. The

> Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while it

is

> playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many

waves

> leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the ocean's

> profoundity is not disturbed.

>

> >Surely

> > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly

> > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members

of

> > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

> dashas,

> > combinations, etc).

>

>

> My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self,

> understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme Truth

> dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere;

however

> He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in Him.

> We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One.

>

> Whatever there is, it is all Him.

>

> To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the mantra.

> For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

>

> Om Tat Sat.

>

> Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal.

>

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > I was hoping that the association list would have a documented

> > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream of

> > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so

> fits

> > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya

> > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance

from

> > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers.

> >

> > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'.

> Surely

> > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly

> > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members

of

> > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

> dashas,

> > combinations, etc).

> >

> > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one

> before

> > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in

> Shivji

> > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the

three

> > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there is

a

> > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical

> > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious

symbols

> > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more tolerant

> of

> > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and

ritual

> > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is

> > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that even

> > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a personage/entity/unit

> > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to

brain,

> in

> > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> >

> > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force

> > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma has

> > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep returning

> back

> > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation and

> > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> >

> > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds

> > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

biggest

> > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which

> would

> > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework

> (330

> > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into

each

> if

> > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if

it

> is

> > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we

> > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is

> > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > Dear Rohini:

> > >

> > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my

quoted

> > > email

> > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> planetary

> > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

> > >

> > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > >

> > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity

> > associated

> > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and

creation

> > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each

> story

> > > behind it.

> > >

> > > For example:

> > >

> > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it

> said

> > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > >

> > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is

> headless".

> > >

> > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it

> > > is "headless"?

> > >

> > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to

> > respond

> > > to these questions.

> > >

> > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > >

> > > Om Tat Sat.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > >

> > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my

quoted

> > > email

> > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> planetary

> > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

> which

> > > is

> > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described

> > elsewhere.

> > > >

> > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the

> fifth

> > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used

> to

> > > tell

> > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he

> > claimed.

> > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much

> > more

> > > > details.

> > > >

> > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary

> > > > concordance to deities!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > >

> > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as

I

> > can

> > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > >

> > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > >

> > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is

> our

> > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these

> > > groups.

> > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between

> > > Dharma

> > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes

> > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord

of

> > 9th

> > > > and

> > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The

> > conjunction

> > > > of

> > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord

> of

> > 10

> > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the

> > true

> > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The

> importance

> > > of

> > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from

> > > previous

> > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly

> changing

> > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows

> the

> > > > karmic

> > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th

> > > (vyaya)

> > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which

> will

> > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

> surrender "The

> > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And

that

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as

> > Moksha.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the

Self.

> > > There

> > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To

lose

> > > > oneSelf

> > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything

> or

> > > any

> > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means"

> and

> > > not

> > > > as

> > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it

does

> > not

> > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to

Him

> > > Only.

> > > > >

> > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the

true

> > > > mantra

> > > > > repetition.

> > > > >

> > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we

> > have

> > > > died

> > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we

> > shall

> > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where

> is

> > > the

> > > > > list

> > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your

> list

> > > is

> > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in

> jyotish,

> > of

> > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have

seen

> > > > others

> > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other

> religions,

> > > and

> > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link

> > > between

> > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the

> classics

> > > (I

> > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with

> > ishta

> > > > devta

> > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to

> follow

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who

> > recommends

> > > > > using

> > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if

> makar

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one

should

> > look

> > > > at

> > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the

> effects.

> > I

> > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given

an

> > > > example

> > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we

> use

> > > the

> > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the

> rashi

> > > > chart

> > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from

> the

> > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi

> chart

> > > for

> > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma

Durga

> > > with

> > > > > rahu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from

> > > karakamsa

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of

> > those

> > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet

> > which

> > > > is

> > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be

> the

> > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example

> > Dhanus

> > > > and

> > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra --

> Mahalaxmi

> > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he

> will

> > > > > become

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under

> > > > somebody.

> > > > > > If

> > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great

> > > significance

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect

> of

> > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas

> or

> > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having

an

> > > empty

> > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva

> as

> > > > ishta

> > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it

was

> > > pisces

> > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that

> > surya

> > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th

> from

> > > AK)?

> > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be

> > interested

> > > to

> > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by

> Atmakaraka.

> > So

> > > > > Lord

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for

> > IstaDevata

> > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which

> in

> > > this

> > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the

> > > navamsa

> > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the

lord

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would

> be

> > > guru

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Yes Rohini Ji.

 

That is why great beings never give much importance to just seeing

their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness

consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his true

nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

 

When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in the

awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

 

Om Tat Sat.

 

Best Wishes.

 

--Sanjay Aggarwal

jyotish_tat_sat

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> Sanjay,

>

> Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

> particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is

> difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity

into

> simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one

magical

> indicator etc.

>

> Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to

capture

> Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we

preach,

> because:

>

> God is probably not a being or entity

> probably does not have gender

>

> When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages,

books

> after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals, not

> ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can we

> satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such

> specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your ishta-

> devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more

> correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with those

kind

> of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like many

> such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

>

> Cordially,

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Dear Rohini Ji:

> >

> > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

sounds

> > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

> biggest

> > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which

> > would

> > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

framework

> > (330

> > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into

> each

> > if

> > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if

> it

> > is

> > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then

we

> > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is

> > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> >

> > --Point very well taken.

> >

> > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still.

The

> > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while

it

> is

> > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many

> waves

> > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the

ocean's

> > profoundity is not disturbed.

> >

> > >Surely

> > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly

> > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members

> of

> > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

> > dashas,

> > > combinations, etc).

> >

> >

> > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self,

> > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme Truth

> > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere;

> however

> > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in

Him.

> > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One.

> >

> > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> >

> > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the

mantra.

> > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> >

> > Om Tat Sat.

> >

> > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> >

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > I was hoping that the association list would have a documented

> > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream

of

> > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so

> > fits

> > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya

> > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance

> from

> > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers.

> > >

> > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'.

> > Surely

> > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly

> > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members

> of

> > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

> > dashas,

> > > combinations, etc).

> > >

> > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one

> > before

> > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in

> > Shivji

> > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the

> three

> > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there

is

> a

> > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical

> > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious

> symbols

> > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more

tolerant

> > of

> > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and

> ritual

> > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is

> > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that

even

> > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

personage/entity/unit

> > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to

> brain,

> > in

> > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > >

> > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force

> > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma

has

> > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep

returning

> > back

> > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation

and

> > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > >

> > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

sounds

> > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

> biggest

> > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which

> > would

> > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

framework

> > (330

> > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into

> each

> > if

> > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if

> it

> > is

> > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then

we

> > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is

> > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > >

> > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my

> quoted

> > > > email

> > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> > planetary

> > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

> > > >

> > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > >

> > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity

> > > associated

> > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and

> creation

> > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each

> > story

> > > > behind it.

> > > >

> > > > For example:

> > > >

> > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it

> > said

> > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > >

> > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is

> > headless".

> > > >

> > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since

it

> > > > is "headless"?

> > > >

> > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to

> > > respond

> > > > to these questions.

> > > >

> > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > >

> > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > > >

> > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my

> quoted

> > > > email

> > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> > planetary

> > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.)

> > which

> > > > is

> > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described

> > > elsewhere.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the

> > fifth

> > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who

used

> > to

> > > > tell

> > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he

> > > claimed.

> > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know

much

> > > more

> > > > > details.

> > > > >

> > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary

> > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply

as

> I

> > > can

> > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example)

is

> > our

> > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in

these

> > > > groups.

> > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice

between

> > > > Dharma

> > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and

takes

> > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why

lord

> of

> > > 9th

> > > > > and

> > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The

> > > conjunction

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a

Lord

> > of

> > > 10

> > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal

the

> > > true

> > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The

> > importance

> > > > of

> > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul

from

> > > > previous

> > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly

> > changing

> > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly

shows

> > the

> > > > > karmic

> > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and

12th

> > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata

which

> > will

> > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

> > surrender "The

> > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And

> that

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as

> > > Moksha.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the

> Self.

> > > > There

> > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To

> lose

> > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra.

Anything

> > or

> > > > any

> > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as

a "means"

> > and

> > > > not

> > > > > as

> > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it

> does

> > > not

> > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to

> Him

> > > > Only.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the

> true

> > > > > mantra

> > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once

we

> > > have

> > > > > died

> > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf

we

> > > shall

> > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts.

Where

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > > list

> > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference.

Your

> > list

> > > > is

> > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in

> > jyotish,

> > > of

> > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have

> seen

> > > > > others

> > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other

> > religions,

> > > > and

> > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The

link

> > > > between

> > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the

> > classics

> > > > (I

> > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well

with

> > > ishta

> > > > > devta

> > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to

> > follow

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who

> > > recommends

> > > > > > using

> > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if

> > makar

> > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one

> should

> > > look

> > > > > at

> > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the

> > effects.

> > > I

> > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had

given

> an

> > > > > example

> > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if

we

> > use

> > > > the

> > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the

> > rashi

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign

from

> > the

> > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi

> > chart

> > > > for

> > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma

> Durga

> > > > with

> > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from

> > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma

of

> > > those

> > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the

planet

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will

be

> > the

> > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for

example

> > > Dhanus

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra --

> > Mahalaxmi

> > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani,

he

> > will

> > > > > > become

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant

under

> > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great

> > > > significance

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no

ego).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the

aspect

> > of

> > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of

Yagnyas

> > or

> > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having

> an

> > > > empty

> > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have

Shiva

> > as

> > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it

> was

> > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say

that

> > > surya

> > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th

> > from

> > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be

> > > interested

> > > > to

> > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by

> > Atmakaraka.

> > > So

> > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for

> > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) ..

which

> > in

> > > > this

> > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in

the

> > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the

> lord

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which

would

> > be

> > > > guru

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and what we

were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the 12th

from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an indicator of

ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general

framework of jyotish! ;-)

 

 

, "saggarwal_4"

<saggarwal_4> wrote:

> Yes Rohini Ji.

>

> That is why great beings never give much importance to just seeing

> their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness

> consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his true

> nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

>

> When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in the

> awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

>

> Om Tat Sat.

>

> Best Wishes.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal

> jyotish_tat_sat

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > Sanjay,

> >

> > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

> > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is

> > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity

> into

> > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one

> magical

> > indicator etc.

> >

> > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to

> capture

> > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we

> preach,

> > because:

> >

> > God is probably not a being or entity

> > probably does not have gender

> >

> > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages,

> books

> > after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals,

not

> > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can we

> > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such

> > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your ishta-

> > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more

> > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with those

> kind

> > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like many

> > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

> >

> > Cordially,

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > >

> > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

> sounds

> > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

> > biggest

> > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis

which

> > > would

> > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> framework

> > > (330

> > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into

> > each

> > > if

> > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even

if

> > it

> > > is

> > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And

then

> we

> > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which

is

> > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > >

> > > --Point very well taken.

> > >

> > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still.

> The

> > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while

> it

> > is

> > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many

> > waves

> > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the

> ocean's

> > > profoundity is not disturbed.

> > >

> > > >Surely

> > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

similarly

> > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

members

> > of

> > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

> > > dashas,

> > > > combinations, etc).

> > >

> > >

> > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self,

> > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme

Truth

> > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere;

> > however

> > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in

> Him.

> > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One.

> > >

> > > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> > >

> > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the

> mantra.

> > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> > >

> > > Om Tat Sat.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > >

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a

documented

> > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some

stream

> of

> > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and

so

> > > fits

> > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya

> > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance

> > from

> > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers.

> > > >

> > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'.

> > > Surely

> > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

similarly

> > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

members

> > of

> > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience,

> > > dashas,

> > > > combinations, etc).

> > > >

> > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one

> > > before

> > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti

in

> > > Shivji

> > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the

> > three

> > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there

> is

> > a

> > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical

> > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious

> > symbols

> > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more

> tolerant

> > > of

> > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and

> > ritual

> > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning

is

> > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that

> even

> > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

> personage/entity/unit

> > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to

> > brain,

> > > in

> > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > > >

> > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to

force

> > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma

> has

> > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep

> returning

> > > back

> > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation

> and

> > > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > > >

> > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

> sounds

> > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

> > biggest

> > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis

which

> > > would

> > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> framework

> > > (330

> > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into

> > each

> > > if

> > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even

if

> > it

> > > is

> > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And

then

> we

> > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which

is

> > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > >

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > >

> > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my

> > quoted

> > > > > email

> > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> > > planetary

> > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga,

etc.)

> > > > >

> > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > > >

> > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity

> > > > associated

> > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and

> > creation

> > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of

each

> > > story

> > > > > behind it.

> > > > >

> > > > > For example:

> > > > >

> > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is

it

> > > said

> > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > > >

> > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is

> > > headless".

> > > > >

> > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since

> it

> > > > > is "headless"?

> > > > >

> > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free

to

> > > > respond

> > > > > to these questions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my

> > quoted

> > > > > email

> > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> > > planetary

> > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga,

etc.)

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described

> > > > elsewhere.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with

the

> > > fifth

> > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who

> used

> > > to

> > > > > tell

> > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so

he

> > > > claimed.

> > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know

> much

> > > > more

> > > > > > details.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the

planetary

> > > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply

> as

> > I

> > > > can

> > > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example)

> is

> > > our

> > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in

> these

> > > > > groups.

> > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice

> between

> > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and

> takes

> > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why

> lord

> > of

> > > > 9th

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The

> > > > conjunction

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a

> Lord

> > > of

> > > > 10

> > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal

> the

> > > > true

> > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The

> > > importance

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul

> from

> > > > > previous

> > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly

> > > changing

> > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly

> shows

> > > the

> > > > > > karmic

> > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and

> 12th

> > > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata

> which

> > > will

> > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

> > > surrender "The

> > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit".

And

> > that

> > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply

as

> > > > Moksha.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the

> > Self.

> > > > > There

> > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To

> > lose

> > > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra.

> Anything

> > > or

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as

> a "means"

> > > and

> > > > > not

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it

> > does

> > > > not

> > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead

to

> > Him

> > > > > Only.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa",

the

> > true

> > > > > > mantra

> > > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes,

once

> we

> > > > have

> > > > > > died

> > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing

ourSelf

> we

> > > > shall

> > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts.

> Where

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference.

> Your

> > > list

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in

> > > jyotish,

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I

have

> > seen

> > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other

> > > religions,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The

> link

> > > > > between

> > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the

> > > classics

> > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well

> with

> > > > ishta

> > > > > > devta

> > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities)

to

> > > follow

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who

> > > > recommends

> > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance,

if

> > > makar

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one

> > should

> > > > look

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the

> > > effects.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had

> given

> > an

> > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if

> we

> > > use

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in

the

> > > rashi

> > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign

> from

> > > the

> > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in

rashi

> > > chart

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma

> > Durga

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya)

from

> > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and

karma

> of

> > > > those

> > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the

> planet

> > > > which

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet

will

> be

> > > the

> > > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for

> example

> > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra --

> > > Mahalaxmi

> > > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani,

> he

> > > will

> > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant

> under

> > > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great

> > > > > significance

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no

> ego).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the

> aspect

> > > of

> > > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of

> Yagnyas

> > > or

> > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone

having

> > an

> > > > > empty

> > > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have

> Shiva

> > > as

> > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if

it

> > was

> > > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say

> that

> > > > surya

> > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of

Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent

(12th

> > > from

> > > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be

> > > > interested

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by

> > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > So

> > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for

> > > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) ..

> which

> > > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

, "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in

> the

> > > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the

> > lord

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which

> would

> > > be

> > > > > guru

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

> ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general

> framework of jyotish! ;-)

>

 

Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What is

Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in Jyotish?

 

> > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

> > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is

> > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

divinity

> > into

> > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one

> > magical

> > > indicator etc.

 

I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are confusing

me ;-).

 

Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have pointed

out?

 

If you dont, then I wish you all the best.

 

Best Wishes and Take Care.

 

--Sanjay Aggarwal

 

 

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and what

we

> were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the 12th

> from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an indicator

of

> ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general

> framework of jyotish! ;-)

>

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Yes Rohini Ji.

> >

> > That is why great beings never give much importance to just

seeing

> > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness

> > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his true

> > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

> >

> > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in the

> > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

> >

> > Om Tat Sat.

> >

> > Best Wishes.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > jyotish_tat_sat

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Sanjay,

> > >

> > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

> > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is

> > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

divinity

> > into

> > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one

> > magical

> > > indicator etc.

> > >

> > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to

> > capture

> > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we

> > preach,

> > > because:

> > >

> > > God is probably not a being or entity

> > > probably does not have gender

> > >

> > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages,

> > books

> > > after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals,

> not

> > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can

we

> > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such

> > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your

ishta-

> > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more

> > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with

those

> > kind

> > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like

many

> > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

> > >

> > > Cordially,

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > >

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > >

> > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

> > sounds

> > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

> > > biggest

> > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis

> which

> > > > would

> > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> > framework

> > > > (330

> > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit

into

> > > each

> > > > if

> > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme.

Even

> if

> > > it

> > > > is

> > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And

> then

> > we

> > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which

> is

> > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > >

> > > > --Point very well taken.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and

still.

> > The

> > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even

while

> > it

> > > is

> > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so

many

> > > waves

> > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the

> > ocean's

> > > > profoundity is not disturbed.

> > > >

> > > > >Surely

> > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> similarly

> > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

> members

> > > of

> > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

experience,

> > > > dashas,

> > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self,

> > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme

> Truth

> > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere;

> > > however

> > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division

in

> > Him.

> > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One.

> > > >

> > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> > > >

> > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the

> > mantra.

> > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> > > >

> > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a

> documented

> > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some

> stream

> > of

> > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars>

and

> so

> > > > fits

> > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of

Kartikeya

> > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic

parlance

> > > from

> > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore

brothers.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu

framework'.

> > > > Surely

> > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> similarly

> > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

> members

> > > of

> > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other

> > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

experience,

> > > > dashas,

> > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > >

> > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage

(one

> > > > before

> > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti

> in

> > > > Shivji

> > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in

the

> > > three

> > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families,

there

> > is

> > > a

> > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical

> > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious

> > > symbols

> > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more

> > tolerant

> > > > of

> > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship

and

> > > ritual

> > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal

leaning

> is

> > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe

that

> > even

> > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

> > personage/entity/unit

> > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to

> > > brain,

> > > > in

> > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > > > >

> > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to

> force

> > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali

Ma

> > has

> > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep

> > returning

> > > > back

> > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of

creation

> > and

> > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > > > >

> > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

> > sounds

> > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The

> > > biggest

> > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis

> which

> > > > would

> > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> > framework

> > > > (330

> > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit

into

> > > each

> > > > if

> > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme.

Even

> if

> > > it

> > > > is

> > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And

> then

> > we

> > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which

> is

> > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > >

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see

my

> > > quoted

> > > > > > email

> > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> > > > planetary

> > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga,

> etc.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity

> > > > > associated

> > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and

> > > creation

> > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of

> each

> > > > story

> > > > > > behind it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For example:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why

is

> it

> > > > said

> > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is

> > > > headless".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it

since

> > it

> > > > > > is "headless"?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel

free

> to

> > > > > respond

> > > > > > to these questions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see

my

> > > quoted

> > > > > > email

> > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the

> > > > planetary

> > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga,

> etc.)

> > > > which

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or

described

> > > > > elsewhere.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with

> the

> > > > fifth

> > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi

who

> > used

> > > > to

> > > > > > tell

> > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so

> he

> > > > > claimed.

> > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not

know

> > much

> > > > > more

> > > > > > > details.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the

> planetary

> > > > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as

simply

> > as

> > > I

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an

example)

> > is

> > > > our

> > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in

> > these

> > > > > > groups.

> > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice

> > between

> > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and

> > takes

> > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why

> > lord

> > > of

> > > > > 9th

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The

> > > > > conjunction

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also

a

> > Lord

> > > > of

> > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not

reveal

> > the

> > > > > true

> > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The

> > > > importance

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul

> > from

> > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is

constantly

> > > > changing

> > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly

> > shows

> > > > the

> > > > > > > karmic

> > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and

> > 12th

> > > > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata

> > which

> > > > will

> > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

> > > > surrender "The

> > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit".

> And

> > > that

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called

simply

> as

> > > > > Moksha.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of

the

> > > Self.

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self.

To

> > > lose

> > > > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra.

> > Anything

> > > > or

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as

> > a "means"

> > > > and

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many,

it

> > > does

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead

> to

> > > Him

> > > > > > Only.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa",

> the

> > > true

> > > > > > > mantra

> > > > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes,

> once

> > we

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > died

> > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing

> ourSelf

> > we

> > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts.

> > Where

> > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference.

> > Your

> > > > list

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in

> > > > jyotish,

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I

> have

> > > seen

> > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other

> > > > religions,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course.

The

> > link

> > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of

the

> > > > classics

> > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well

> > with

> > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > devta

> > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities)

> to

> > > > follow

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao

who

> > > > > recommends

> > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for

instance,

> if

> > > > makar

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one

> > > should

> > > > > look

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging

the

> > > > effects.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had

> > given

> > > an

> > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur

if

> > we

> > > > use

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in

> the

> > > > rashi

> > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in

> rashi

> > > > chart

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of

Ma

> > > Durga

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya)

> from

> > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and

> karma

> > of

> > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the

> > planet

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet

> will

> > be

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for

> > example

> > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra --

> > > > Mahalaxmi

> > > > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of

Sani,

> > he

> > > > will

> > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant

> > under

> > > > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great

> > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no

> > ego).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the

> > aspect

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of

> > Yagnyas

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone

> having

> > > an

> > > > > > empty

> > > > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have

> > Shiva

> > > > as

> > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if

> it

> > > was

> > > > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some

say

> > that

> > > > > surya

> > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of

> Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent

> (12th

> > > > from

> > > > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be

> > > > > interested

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by

> > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator

for

> > > > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) ..

> > which

> > > > in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka

in

> > the

> > > > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there

the

> > > lord

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which

> > would

> > > > be

> > > > > > guru

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Sanjay,

 

We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began by my

asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation of

the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to figure

out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply wished

to probe that a bit further since the list was very different from

what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of jyotish

and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara wrote, I

think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still coming to

grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human beings.

While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out the

afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to

corroborate philosophical interpretations and overinterpretations

about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would rather

not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal

territories, where pretty much anything goes.

 

None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and

worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing

philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The states

and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond jyotish

and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the divine

levels of human experience.

 

There should not be any confusion about the focus of the topic. In

fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they would

see that I had been talking and seeking information about a very

specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making

segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the

documentation/information (the technique or the association list of

planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not

available.

 

Rohiniranjan

 

 

, "saggarwal_4"

<saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general

> > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> >

>

> Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What is

> Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in Jyotish?

>

> > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

> > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is

> > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> divinity

> > > into

> > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one

> > > magical

> > > > indicator etc.

>

> I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are confusing

> me ;-).

>

> Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have pointed

> out?

>

> If you dont, then I wish you all the best.

>

> Best Wishes and Take Care.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal

>

>

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and

what

> we

> > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the

12th

> > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an indicator

> of

> > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general

> > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> >

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > Yes Rohini Ji.

> > >

> > > That is why great beings never give much importance to just

> seeing

> > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness

> > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his

true

> > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

> > >

> > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in

the

> > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

> > >

> > > Om Tat Sat.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Sanjay,

> > > >

> > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

> > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is

> > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> divinity

> > > into

> > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one

> > > magical

> > > > indicator etc.

> > > >

> > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to

> > > capture

> > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we

> > > preach,

> > > > because:

> > > >

> > > > God is probably not a being or entity

> > > > probably does not have gender

> > > >

> > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after

passages,

> > > books

> > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized

individuals,

> > not

> > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can

> we

> > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such

> > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your

> ishta-

> > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or

more

> > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with

> those

> > > kind

> > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like

> many

> > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

> > > >

> > > > Cordially,

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > >

> > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

> > > sounds

> > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws.

The

> > > > biggest

> > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis

> > which

> > > > > would

> > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> > > framework

> > > > > (330

> > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit

> into

> > > > each

> > > > > if

> > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme.

> Even

> > if

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And

> > then

> > > we

> > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population

which

> > is

> > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Point very well taken.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and

> still.

> > > The

> > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even

> while

> > > it

> > > > is

> > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so

> many

> > > > waves

> > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the

> > > ocean's

> > > > > profoundity is not disturbed.

> > > > >

> > > > > >Surely

> > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> > similarly

> > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

> > members

> > > > of

> > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all

other

> > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> experience,

> > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own

Self,

> > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme

> > Truth

> > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades

everywhere;

> > > > however

> > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division

> in

> > > Him.

> > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One.

> > > > >

> > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> > > > >

> > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the

> > > mantra.

> > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a

> > documented

> > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some

> > stream

> > > of

> > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars>

> and

> > so

> > > > > fits

> > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of

> Kartikeya

> > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic

> parlance

> > > > from

> > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore

> brothers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu

> framework'.

> > > > > Surely

> > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> > similarly

> > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

> > members

> > > > of

> > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all

other

> > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> experience,

> > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage

> (one

> > > > > before

> > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense

bhakti

> > in

> > > > > Shivji

> > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in

> the

> > > > three

> > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families,

> there

> > > is

> > > > a

> > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of

typical

> > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal

religious

> > > > symbols

> > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more

> > > tolerant

> > > > > of

> > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship

> and

> > > > ritual

> > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal

> leaning

> > is

> > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe

> that

> > > even

> > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

> > > personage/entity/unit

> > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is

to

> > > > brain,

> > > > > in

> > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to

> > force

> > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali

> Ma

> > > has

> > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep

> > > returning

> > > > > back

> > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of

> creation

> > > and

> > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha

> > > sounds

> > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws.

The

> > > > biggest

> > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis

> > which

> > > > > would

> > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> > > framework

> > > > > (330

> > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit

> into

> > > > each

> > > > > if

> > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme.

> Even

> > if

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And

> > then

> > > we

> > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population

which

> > is

> > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see

> my

> > > > quoted

> > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached

the

> > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga,

> > etc.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the

deity

> > > > > > associated

> > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance

and

> > > > creation

> > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of

> > each

> > > > > story

> > > > > > > behind it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For example:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why

> is

> > it

> > > > > said

> > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is

> > > > > headless".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it

> since

> > > it

> > > > > > > is "headless"?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel

> free

> > to

> > > > > > respond

> > > > > > > to these questions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see

> my

> > > > quoted

> > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached

the

> > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga,

> > etc.)

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or

> described

> > > > > > elsewhere.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated

with

> > the

> > > > > fifth

> > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi

> who

> > > used

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > tell

> > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or

so

> > he

> > > > > > claimed.

> > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not

> know

> > > much

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > details.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the

> > planetary

> > > > > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as

> simply

> > > as

> > > > I

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an

> example)

> > > is

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly

in

> > > these

> > > > > > > groups.

> > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice

> > > between

> > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important

and

> > > takes

> > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is

why

> > > lord

> > > > of

> > > > > > 9th

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance.

The

> > > > > > conjunction

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why

also

> a

> > > Lord

> > > > > of

> > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not

> reveal

> > > the

> > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones

life.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya.

The

> > > > > importance

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your

soul

> > > from

> > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is

> constantly

> > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9

truly

> > > shows

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > karmic

> > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9

and

> > > 12th

> > > > > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining

devata

> > > which

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

> > > > > surrender "The

> > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest

Fruit".

> > And

> > > > that

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called

> simply

> > as

> > > > > > Moksha.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of

> the

> > > > Self.

> > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the

Self.

> To

> > > > lose

> > > > > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra.

> > > Anything

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as

> > > a "means"

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are

many,

> it

> > > > does

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths

lead

> > to

> > > > Him

> > > > > > > Only.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the

true "japa",

> > the

> > > > true

> > > > > > > > mantra

> > > > > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes,

> > once

> > > we

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > died

> > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing

> > ourSelf

> > > we

> > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few

charts.

> > > Where

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for

reference.

> > > Your

> > > > > list

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common

in

> > > > > jyotish,

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I

> > have

> > > > seen

> > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other

> > > > > religions,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course.

> The

> > > link

> > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of

> the

> > > > > classics

> > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering

correctly).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate

well

> > > with

> > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > devta

> > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to

deities)

> > to

> > > > > follow

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao

> who

> > > > > > recommends

> > > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for

> instance,

> > if

> > > > > makar

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then

one

> > > > should

> > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging

> the

> > > > > effects.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he

had

> > > given

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never

occur

> if

> > > we

> > > > > use

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to

in

> > the

> > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha

sign

> > > from

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in

> > rashi

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association

of

> Ma

> > > > Durga

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th

(Vyaya)

> > from

> > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and

> > karma

> > > of

> > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of

the

> > > planet

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet

> > will

> > > be

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for

> > > example

> > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra --

 

> > > > > Mahalaxmi

> > > > > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of

> Sani,

> > > he

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and

servant

> > > under

> > > > > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has

great

> > > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless

(no

> > > ego).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have

the

> > > aspect

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of

> > > Yagnyas

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone

> > having

> > > > an

> > > > > > > empty

> > > > > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would

have

> > > Shiva

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words

if

> > it

> > > > was

> > > > > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some

> say

> > > that

> > > > > > surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of

> > Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent

> > (12th

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would

be

> > > > > > interested

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by

> > > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator

> for

> > > > > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this

chart) ..

> > > which

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there

> the

> > > > lord

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius)

which

> > > would

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > guru

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohini:

 

I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self".

Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very truth,

is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on it

once in a while.

 

I think I know what you are looking for now.

 

Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting. It is

written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect for his

writings. You may find all the information you are looking for here.

 

http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html

 

Is this all what you were looking for?

 

Always Remember:

 

The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take sides

while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest

(asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the

manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The right

approach is to worship both and realize one through the other.

 

Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further

blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other.

 

Warmest Regards.

 

--Sanjay Aggarwal

 

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> Sanjay,

>

> We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began by

my

> asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation of

> the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to

figure

> out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply wished

> to probe that a bit further since the list was very different from

> what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of

jyotish

> and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara wrote, I

> think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still coming

to

> grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human beings.

> While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out the

> afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to

> corroborate philosophical interpretations and overinterpretations

> about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would

rather

> not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal

> territories, where pretty much anything goes.

>

> None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and

> worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing

> philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The states

> and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond

jyotish

> and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the divine

> levels of human experience.

>

> There should not be any confusion about the focus of the topic. In

> fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they would

> see that I had been talking and seeking information about a very

> specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making

> segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the

> documentation/information (the technique or the association list

of

> planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not

> available.

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general

> > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > >

> >

> > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What is

> > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in Jyotish?

> >

> > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

 

> > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it

is

> > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> > divinity

> > > > into

> > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on

one

> > > > magical

> > > > > indicator etc.

> >

> > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are confusing

> > me ;-).

> >

> > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have

pointed

> > out?

> >

> > If you dont, then I wish you all the best.

> >

> > Best Wishes and Take Care.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> >

> >

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and

> what

> > we

> > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the

> 12th

> > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an

indicator

> > of

> > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general

> > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > >

> > >

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Yes Rohini Ji.

> > > >

> > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to just

> > seeing

> > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of

witness

> > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his

> true

> > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

> > > >

> > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in

> the

> > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

> > > >

> > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > >

> > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic --

 

> > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it

is

> > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> > divinity

> > > > into

> > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on

one

> > > > magical

> > > > > indicator etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try

to

> > > > capture

> > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what

we

> > > > preach,

> > > > > because:

> > > > >

> > > > > God is probably not a being or entity

> > > > > probably does not have gender

> > > > >

> > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after

> passages,

> > > > books

> > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized

> individuals,

> > > not

> > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how

can

> > we

> > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness,

such

> > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your

> > ishta-

> > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or

> more

> > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with

> > those

> > > > kind

> > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of

like

> > many

> > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

> > > > >

> > > > > Cordially,

> > > > >

> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

karakamsha

> > > > sounds

> > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws.

> The

> > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

rashis

> > > which

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> > > > framework

> > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to

fit

> > into

> > > > > each

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme.

> > Even

> > > if

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case).

And

> > > then

> > > > we

> > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population

> which

> > > is

> > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Point very well taken.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and

> > still.

> > > > The

> > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even

> > while

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so

> > many

> > > > > waves

> > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens,

the

> > > > ocean's

> > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >Surely

> > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> > > similarly

> > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

> > > members

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all

> other

> > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > experience,

> > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own

> Self,

> > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The

Supreme

> > > Truth

> > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades

> everywhere;

> > > > > however

> > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no

division

> > in

> > > > Him.

> > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as

One.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of

the

> > > > mantra.

> > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a

> > > documented

> > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some

> > > stream

> > > > of

> > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like

mars>

> > and

> > > so

> > > > > > fits

> > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of

> > Kartikeya

> > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic

> > parlance

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore

> > brothers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu

> > framework'.

> > > > > > Surely

> > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> > > similarly

> > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because

> > > members

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all

> other

> > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > experience,

> > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my

lineage

> > (one

> > > > > > before

> > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense

> bhakti

> > > in

> > > > > > Shivji

> > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least

in

> > the

> > > > > three

> > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families,

> > there

> > > > is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of

> typical

> > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal

> religious

> > > > > symbols

> > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably

more

> > > > tolerant

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional

worship

> > and

> > > > > ritual

> > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal

> > leaning

> > > is

> > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe

> > that

> > > > even

> > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

> > > > personage/entity/unit

> > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind

is

> to

> > > > > brain,

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried

to

> > > force

> > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of

Kali

> > Ma

> > > > has

> > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep

> > > > returning

> > > > > > back

> > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of

> > creation

> > > > and

> > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

karakamsha

> > > > sounds

> > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws.

> The

> > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

rashis

> > > which

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu

> > > > framework

> > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to

fit

> > into

> > > > > each

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme.

> > Even

> > > if

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case).

And

> > > then

> > > > we

> > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population

> which

> > > is

> > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested

(see

> > my

> > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached

> the

> > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

rahu=Durga,

> > > etc.)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the

> deity

> > > > > > > associated

> > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance

> and

> > > > > creation

> > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance

of

> > > each

> > > > > > story

> > > > > > > > behind it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For example:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha?

Why

> > is

> > > it

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu

is

> > > > > > headless".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it

> > since

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > is "headless"?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel

> > free

> > > to

> > > > > > > respond

> > > > > > > > to these questions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested

(see

> > my

> > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached

> the

> > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

rahu=Durga,

> > > etc.)

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or

> > described

> > > > > > > elsewhere.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated

> with

> > > the

> > > > > > fifth

> > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a

jyotishi

> > who

> > > > used

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > tell

> > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house,

or

> so

> > > he

> > > > > > > claimed.

> > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not

> > know

> > > > much

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > details.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the

> > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as

> > simply

> > > > as

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an

> > example)

> > > > is

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help

selflessly

> in

> > > > these

> > > > > > > > groups.

> > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a

choice

> > > > between

> > > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important

> and

> > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is

> why

> > > > lord

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > 9th

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance.

> The

> > > > > > > conjunction

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why

> also

> > a

> > > > Lord

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not

> > reveal

> > > > the

> > > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones

> life.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya.

> The

> > > > > > importance

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your

> soul

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is

> > constantly

> > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9

> truly

> > > > shows

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > karmic

> > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9

> and

> > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining

> devata

> > > > which

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

> > > > > > surrender "The

> > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest

> Fruit".

> > > And

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called

> > simply

> > > as

> > > > > > > Moksha.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity

of

> > the

> > > > > Self.

> > > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the

> Self.

> > To

> > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the

Mantra.

> > > > Anything

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as

> > > > a "means"

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are

> many,

> > it

> > > > > does

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths

> lead

> > > to

> > > > > Him

> > > > > > > > Only.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the

> true "japa",

> > > the

> > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > mantra

> > > > > > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own

eyes,

> > > once

> > > > we

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > died

> > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing

> > > ourSelf

> > > > we

> > > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few

> charts.

> > > > Where

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for

> reference.

> > > > Your

> > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite

common

> in

> > > > > > jyotish,

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course.

I

> > > have

> > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the

other

> > > > > > religions,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of

course.

> > The

> > > > link

> > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some

of

> > the

> > > > > > classics

> > > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering

> correctly).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate

> well

> > > > with

> > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > devta

> > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to

> deities)

> > > to

> > > > > > follow

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN

Rao

> > who

> > > > > > > recommends

> > > > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for

> > instance,

> > > if

> > > > > > makar

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then

> one

> > > > > should

> > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for

gauging

> > the

> > > > > > effects.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he

> had

> > > > given

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never

> occur

> > if

> > > > we

> > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha

> sign

> > > > from

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it

in

> > > rashi

> > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association

> of

> > Ma

> > > > > Durga

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th

> (Vyaya)

> > > from

> > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength

and

> > > karma

> > > > of

> > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of

> the

> > > > planet

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that

planet

> > > will

> > > > be

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ;

for

> > > > example

> > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji;

Sukra --

>

> > > > > > Mahalaxmi

> > > > > > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of

> > Sani,

> > > > he

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and

> servant

> > > > under

> > > > > > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has

> great

> > > > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless

> (no

> > > > ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have

> the

> > > > aspect

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer

of

> > > > Yagnyas

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So

anyone

> > > having

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > empty

> > > > > > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would

> have

> > > > Shiva

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other

words

> if

> > > it

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)?

Some

> > say

> > > > that

> > > > > > > surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form

of

> > > Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets

represent

> > > (12th

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities?

Would

> be

> > > > > > > interested

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied

by

> > > > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the

indicator

> > for

> > > > > > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this

> chart) ..

> > > > which

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the

atmakaraka

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present

there

> > the

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius)

> which

> > > > would

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > guru

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking here

as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a list

which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although it is

nice to see the citation now :-)

 

Jyotish being an application that is highly interpretive and to some

extant personal and subjective, I have no problem with shooting a

bit of philosophical or pseudophilosophical breeze (borrowed or

original), however, jyotish is also very technical and prone to

errors as we all witness and experience all the time -- hence my

probing to make sure what is involved in this method.

 

Thanks for the interesting exchange.

 

RR

 

, "saggarwal_4"

<saggarwal_4> wrote:

> Dear Rohini:

>

> I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self".

> Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very

truth,

> is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on it

> once in a while.

>

> I think I know what you are looking for now.

>

> Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting. It is

> written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect for

his

> writings. You may find all the information you are looking for

here.

>

> http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html

>

> Is this all what you were looking for?

>

> Always Remember:

>

> The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take sides

> while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest

> (asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the

> manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The right

> approach is to worship both and realize one through the other.

>

> Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further

> blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other.

>

> Warmest Regards.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal

>

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > Sanjay,

> >

> > We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began

by

> my

> > asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation

of

> > the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to

> figure

> > out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply

wished

> > to probe that a bit further since the list was very different

from

> > what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of

> jyotish

> > and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara wrote,

I

> > think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still

coming

> to

> > grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human

beings.

> > While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out the

> > afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to

> > corroborate philosophical interpretations and

overinterpretations

> > about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would

> rather

> > not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal

> > territories, where pretty much anything goes.

> >

> > None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and

> > worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing

> > philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The

states

> > and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond

> jyotish

> > and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the

divine

> > levels of human experience.

> >

> > There should not be any confusion about the focus of the topic.

In

> > fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they

would

> > see that I had been talking and seeking information about a very

> > specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making

> > segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the

> > documentation/information (the technique or the association list

> of

> > planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not

> > available.

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the

general

> > > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > > >

> > >

> > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What

is

> > > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in

Jyotish?

> > >

> > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human

logic --

>

> > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that

it

> is

> > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> > > divinity

> > > > > into

> > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on

> one

> > > > > magical

> > > > > > indicator etc.

> > >

> > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are

confusing

> > > me ;-).

> > >

> > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have

> pointed

> > > out?

> > >

> > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes and Take Care.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and

> > what

> > > we

> > > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the

> > 12th

> > > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an

> indicator

> > > of

> > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the

general

> > > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > Yes Rohini Ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to

just

> > > seeing

> > > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of

> witness

> > > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in

his

> > true

> > > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

> > > > >

> > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady

in

> > the

> > > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > >

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human

logic --

>

> > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that

it

> is

> > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> > > divinity

> > > > > into

> > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on

> one

> > > > > magical

> > > > > > indicator etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or

try

> to

> > > > > capture

> > > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing

what

> we

> > > > > preach,

> > > > > > because:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity

> > > > > > probably does not have gender

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after

> > passages,

> > > > > books

> > > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized

> > individuals,

> > > > not

> > > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how

> can

> > > we

> > > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness,

> such

> > > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick

your

> > > ishta-

> > > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or

> > more

> > > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort

with

> > > those

> > > > > kind

> > > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of

> like

> > > many

> > > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Cordially,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

> karakamsha

> > > > > sounds

> > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even

flaws.

> > The

> > > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

> rashis

> > > > which

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the

hindu

> > > > > framework

> > > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to

> fit

> > > into

> > > > > > each

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka

scheme.

> > > Even

> > > > if

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case).

> And

> > > > then

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population

> > which

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Point very well taken.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and

> > > still.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing.

Even

> > > while

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean

so

> > > many

> > > > > > waves

> > > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens,

> the

> > > > > ocean's

> > > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Surely

> > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> > > > similarly

> > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly

because

> > > > members

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all

> > other

> > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > > experience,

> > > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own

> > Self,

> > > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The

> Supreme

> > > > Truth

> > > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades

> > everywhere;

> > > > > > however

> > > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no

> division

> > > in

> > > > > Him.

> > > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as

> One.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of

> the

> > > > > mantra.

> > > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a

> > > > documented

> > > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on

some

> > > > stream

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like

> mars>

> > > and

> > > > so

> > > > > > > fits

> > > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of

> > > Kartikeya

> > > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic

> > > parlance

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore

> > > brothers.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu

> > > framework'.

> > > > > > > Surely

> > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be

> > > > similarly

> > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly

because

> > > > members

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all

> > other

> > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > > experience,

> > > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my

> lineage

> > > (one

> > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense

> > bhakti

> > > > in

> > > > > > > Shivji

> > > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at

least

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > three

> > > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their

families,

> > > there

> > > > > is

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of

> > typical

> > > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal

> > religious

> > > > > > symbols

> > > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably

> more

> > > > > tolerant

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional

> worship

> > > and

> > > > > > ritual

> > > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal

> > > leaning

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I

believe

> > > that

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

> > > > > personage/entity/unit

> > > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind

> is

> > to

> > > > > > brain,

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have

tried

> to

> > > > force

> > > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of

> Kali

> > > Ma

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I

keep

> > > > > returning

> > > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of

> > > creation

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

> karakamsha

> > > > > sounds

> > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even

flaws.

> > The

> > > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

> rashis

> > > > which

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the

hindu

> > > > > framework

> > > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to

> fit

> > > into

> > > > > > each

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka

scheme.

> > > Even

> > > > if

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case).

> And

> > > > then

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population

> > which

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested

> (see

> > > my

> > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you

obtained/reached

> > the

> > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

> rahu=Durga,

> > > > etc.)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the

> > deity

> > > > > > > > associated

> > > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the

significance

> > and

> > > > > > creation

> > > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological

significance

> of

> > > > each

> > > > > > > story

> > > > > > > > > behind it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > For example:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha?

> Why

> > > is

> > > > it

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu

> is

> > > > > > > headless".

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with

it

> > > since

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is "headless"?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please

feel

> > > free

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > respond

> > > > > > > > > to these questions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested

> (see

> > > my

> > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you

obtained/reached

> > the

> > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

> rahu=Durga,

> > > > etc.)

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or

> > > described

> > > > > > > > elsewhere.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated

> > with

> > > > the

> > > > > > > fifth

> > > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a

> jyotishi

> > > who

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > tell

> > > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house,

> or

> > so

> > > > he

> > > > > > > > claimed.

> > > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do

not

> > > know

> > > > > much

> > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > details.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the

> > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain

as

> > > simply

> > > > > as

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an

> > > example)

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help

> selflessly

> > in

> > > > > these

> > > > > > > > > groups.

> > > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a

> choice

> > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more

important

> > and

> > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That

is

> > why

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > 9th

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge

importance.

> > The

> > > > > > > > conjunction

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why

> > also

> > > a

> > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does

not

> > > reveal

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones

> > life.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th

Vyaya.

> > The

> > > > > > > importance

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of

your

> > soul

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is

> > > constantly

> > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9

> > truly

> > > > > shows

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > karmic

> > > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-

9

> > and

> > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining

> > devata

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If

we

> > > > > > > surrender "The

> > > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest

> > Fruit".

> > > > And

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called

> > > simply

> > > > as

> > > > > > > > Moksha.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the

deity

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > Self.

> > > > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the

> > Self.

> > > To

> > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the

> Mantra.

> > > > > Anything

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken

as

> > > > > a "means"

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are

> > many,

> > > it

> > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all

paths

> > lead

> > > > to

> > > > > > Him

> > > > > > > > > Only.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the

> > true "japa",

> > > > the

> > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > mantra

> > > > > > > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own

> eyes,

> > > > once

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > died

> > > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By

losing

> > > > ourSelf

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few

> > charts.

> > > > > Where

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for

> > reference.

> > > > > Your

> > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite

> common

> > in

> > > > > > > jyotish,

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of

course.

> I

> > > > have

> > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the

> other

> > > > > > > religions,

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of

> course.

> > > The

> > > > > link

> > > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > classics

> > > > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering

> > correctly).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really

correlate

> > well

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > devta

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to

> > deities)

> > > > to

> > > > > > > follow

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN

> Rao

> > > who

> > > > > > > > recommends

> > > > > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for

> > > instance,

> > > > if

> > > > > > > makar

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha)

then

> > one

> > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for

> gauging

> > > the

> > > > > > > effects.

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins')

he

> > had

> > > > > given

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never

> > occur

> > > if

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed

to

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the

karakamsha

> > sign

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study

it

> in

> > > > rashi

> > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the

association

> > of

> > > Ma

> > > > > > Durga

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th

> > (Vyaya)

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength

> and

> > > > karma

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma

of

> > the

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that

> planet

> > > > will

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ;

> for

> > > > > example

> > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji;

> Sukra --

> >

> > > > > > > Mahalaxmi

> > > > > > > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect

of

> > > Sani,

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and

> > servant

> > > > > under

> > > > > > > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has

> > great

> > > > > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is

headless

> > (no

> > > > > ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa,

have

> > the

> > > > > aspect

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or

performer

> of

> > > > > Yagnyas

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So

> anyone

> > > > having

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > empty

> > > > > > > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha

would

> > have

> > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other

> words

> > if

> > > > it

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)?

> Some

> > > say

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra

form

> of

> > > > Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets

> represent

> > > > (12th

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities?

> Would

> > be

> > > > > > > > interested

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied

> by

> > > > > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the

> indicator

> > > for

> > > > > > > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this

> > chart) ..

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the

> atmakaraka

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present

> there

> > > the

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius)

> > which

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > guru

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord

shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohini:

 

> Thanks for the interesting exchange.

 

Ditto.

 

Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That was

some good positive churning.

 

Take care.

 

Warm Regards.

 

--Sanjay Aggarwal

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking here

> as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a list

> which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although it

is

> nice to see the citation now :-)

>

> Jyotish being an application that is highly interpretive and to

some

> extant personal and subjective, I have no problem with shooting a

> bit of philosophical or pseudophilosophical breeze (borrowed or

> original), however, jyotish is also very technical and prone to

> errors as we all witness and experience all the time -- hence my

> probing to make sure what is involved in this method.

>

> Thanks for the interesting exchange.

>

> RR

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Dear Rohini:

> >

> > I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self".

> > Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very

> truth,

> > is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on

it

> > once in a while.

> >

> > I think I know what you are looking for now.

> >

> > Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting. It

is

> > written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect for

> his

> > writings. You may find all the information you are looking for

> here.

> >

> > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html

> >

> > Is this all what you were looking for?

> >

> > Always Remember:

> >

> > The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take

sides

> > while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest

> > (asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the

> > manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The right

> > approach is to worship both and realize one through the other.

> >

> > Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further

> > blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other.

> >

> > Warmest Regards.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> >

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Sanjay,

> > >

> > > We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began

> by

> > my

> > > asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation

> of

> > > the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to

> > figure

> > > out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply

> wished

> > > to probe that a bit further since the list was very different

> from

> > > what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of

> > jyotish

> > > and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara

wrote,

> I

> > > think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still

> coming

> > to

> > > grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human

> beings.

> > > While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out

the

> > > afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to

> > > corroborate philosophical interpretations and

> overinterpretations

> > > about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would

> > rather

> > > not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal

> > > territories, where pretty much anything goes.

> > >

> > > None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and

> > > worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing

> > > philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The

> states

> > > and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond

> > jyotish

> > > and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the

> divine

> > > levels of human experience.

> > >

> > > There should not be any confusion about the focus of the

topic.

> In

> > > fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they

> would

> > > see that I had been talking and seeking information about a

very

> > > specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making

> > > segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the

> > > documentation/information (the technique or the association

list

> > of

> > > planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not

> > > available.

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > >

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the

> general

> > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What

> is

> > > > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in

> Jyotish?

> > > >

> > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human

> logic --

> >

> > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that

> it

> > is

> > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> > > > divinity

> > > > > > into

> > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based

on

> > one

> > > > > > magical

> > > > > > > indicator etc.

> > > >

> > > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are

> confusing

> > > > me ;-).

> > > >

> > > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have

> > pointed

> > > > out?

> > > >

> > > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best.

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes and Take Care.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this

and

> > > what

> > > > we

> > > > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using

the

> > > 12th

> > > > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an

> > indicator

> > > > of

> > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the

> general

> > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > Yes Rohini Ji.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to

> just

> > > > seeing

> > > > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of

> > witness

> > > > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in

> his

> > > true

> > > > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human

> logic --

> >

> > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that

> it

> > is

> > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of

> > > > divinity

> > > > > > into

> > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based

on

> > one

> > > > > > magical

> > > > > > > indicator etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or

> try

> > to

> > > > > > capture

> > > > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing

> what

> > we

> > > > > > preach,

> > > > > > > because:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity

> > > > > > > probably does not have gender

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after

> > > passages,

> > > > > > books

> > > > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized

> > > individuals,

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then

how

> > can

> > > > we

> > > > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such

definiteness,

> > such

> > > > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick

> your

> > > > ishta-

> > > > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be

(or

> > > more

> > > > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort

> with

> > > > those

> > > > > > kind

> > > > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of

> > like

> > > > many

> > > > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Cordially,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

> > karakamsha

> > > > > > sounds

> > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even

> flaws.

> > > The

> > > > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

> > rashis

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the

> hindu

> > > > > > framework

> > > > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having

to

> > fit

> > > > into

> > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka

> scheme.

> > > > Even

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the

case).

> > And

> > > > > then

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human

population

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --Point very well taken.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet

and

> > > > still.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing.

> Even

> > > > while

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the

ocean

> so

> > > > many

> > > > > > > waves

> > > > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that

happens,

> > the

> > > > > > ocean's

> > > > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >Surely

> > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must

be

> > > > > similarly

> > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly

> because

> > > > > members

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit

all

> > > other

> > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > > > experience,

> > > > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our

own

> > > Self,

> > > > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The

> > Supreme

> > > > > Truth

> > > > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades

> > > everywhere;

> > > > > > > however

> > > > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no

> > division

> > > > in

> > > > > > Him.

> > > > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him

as

> > One.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition

of

> > the

> > > > > > mantra.

> > > > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have

a

> > > > > documented

> > > > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on

> some

> > > > > stream

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like

> > mars>

> > > > and

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > > fits

> > > > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of

> > > > Kartikeya

> > > > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in

classic

> > > > parlance

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore

> > > > brothers.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu

> > > > framework'.

> > > > > > > > Surely

> > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must

be

> > > > > similarly

> > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly

> because

> > > > > members

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit

all

> > > other

> > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > > > experience,

> > > > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my

> > lineage

> > > > (one

> > > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but

intense

> > > bhakti

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > Shivji

> > > > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at

> least

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > three

> > > > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their

> families,

> > > > there

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of

> > > typical

> > > > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal

> > > religious

> > > > > > > symbols

> > > > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably

> > more

> > > > > > tolerant

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional

> > worship

> > > > and

> > > > > > > ritual

> > > > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my

personal

> > > > leaning

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I

> believe

> > > > that

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

> > > > > > personage/entity/unit

> > > > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What

mind

> > is

> > > to

> > > > > > > brain,

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have

> tried

> > to

> > > > > force

> > > > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form

of

> > Kali

> > > > Ma

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I

> keep

> > > > > > returning

> > > > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix

of

> > > > creation

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

> > karakamsha

> > > > > > sounds

> > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even

> flaws.

> > > The

> > > > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

> > rashis

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the

> hindu

> > > > > > framework

> > > > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having

to

> > fit

> > > > into

> > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka

> scheme.

> > > > Even

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the

case).

> > And

> > > > > then

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human

population

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically

interested

> > (see

> > > > my

> > > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you

> obtained/reached

> > > the

> > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

> > rahu=Durga,

> > > > > etc.)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and

the

> > > deity

> > > > > > > > > associated

> > > > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the

> significance

> > > and

> > > > > > > creation

> > > > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological

> significance

> > of

> > > > > each

> > > > > > > > story

> > > > > > > > > > behind it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > For example:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord

Ganesha?

> > Why

> > > > is

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint

is "Ketu

> > is

> > > > > > > > headless".

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated

with

> it

> > > > since

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > is "headless"?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please

> feel

> > > > free

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > respond

> > > > > > > > > > to these questions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically

interested

> > (see

> > > > my

> > > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you

> obtained/reached

> > > the

> > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

> > rahu=Durga,

> > > > > etc.)

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or

> > > > described

> > > > > > > > > elsewhere.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been

associated

> > > with

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > fifth

> > > > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a

> > jyotishi

> > > > who

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > tell

> > > > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth

house,

> > or

> > > so

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > claimed.

> > > > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do

> not

> > > > know

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > details.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on

the

> > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain

> as

> > > > simply

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as

an

> > > > example)

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help

> > selflessly

> > > in

> > > > > > these

> > > > > > > > > > groups.

> > > > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a

> > choice

> > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more

> important

> > > and

> > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma.

That

> is

> > > why

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge

> importance.

> > > The

> > > > > > > > > conjunction

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is

why

> > > also

> > > > a

> > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does

> not

> > > > reveal

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in

ones

> > > life.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th

> Vyaya.

> > > The

> > > > > > > > importance

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each

house.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of

> your

> > > soul

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is

> > > > constantly

> > > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-

9

> > > truly

> > > > > > shows

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > karmic

> > > > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in

d-

> 9

> > > and

> > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining

> > > devata

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If

> we

> > > > > > > > surrender "The

> > > > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest

> > > Fruit".

> > > > > And

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self

called

> > > > simply

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > Moksha.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the

> deity

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > Self.

> > > > > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of

the

> > > Self.

> > > > To

> > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the

> > Mantra.

> > > > > > Anything

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken

> as

> > > > > > a "means"

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God

are

> > > many,

> > > > it

> > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all

> paths

> > > lead

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > Him

> > > > > > > > > > Only.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the

> > > true "japa",

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > > mantra

> > > > > > > > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own

> > eyes,

> > > > > once

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > died

> > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By

> losing

> > > > > ourSelf

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few

> > > charts.

> > > > > > Where

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for

> > > reference.

> > > > > > Your

> > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite

> > common

> > > in

> > > > > > > > jyotish,

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of

> course.

> > I

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the

> > other

> > > > > > > > religions,

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of

> > course.

> > > > The

> > > > > > link

> > > > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in

some

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > classics

> > > > > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering

> > > correctly).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really

> correlate

> > > well

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > > devta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to

> > > deities)

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > follow

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by

KN

> > Rao

> > > > who

> > > > > > > > > recommends

> > > > > > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for

> > > > instance,

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > > makar

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha)

> then

> > > one

> > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for

> > gauging

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > effects.

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins')

> he

> > > had

> > > > > > given

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can

never

> > > occur

> > > > if

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as

opposed

> to

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the

> karakamsha

> > > sign

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study

> it

> > in

> > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the

> association

> > > of

> > > > Ma

> > > > > > > Durga

> > > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th

> > > (Vyaya)

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the

strength

> > and

> > > > > karma

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that

> > planet

> > > > > will

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from

karakamsa ;

> > for

> > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji;

> > Sukra --

> > >

> > > > > > > > Mahalaxmi

> > > > > > > > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the

aspect

> of

> > > > Sani,

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and

> > > servant

> > > > > > under

> > > > > > > > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it

has

> > > great

> > > > > > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is

> headless

> > > (no

> > > > > > ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa,

> have

> > > the

> > > > > > aspect

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or

> performer

> > of

> > > > > > Yagnyas

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So

> > anyone

> > > > > having

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > empty

> > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha

> would

> > > have

> > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other

> > words

> > > if

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)?

> > Some

> > > > say

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra

> form

> > of

> > > > > Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets

> > represent

> > > > > (12th

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities?

> > Would

> > > be

> > > > > > > > > interested

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign

occupied

> > by

> > > > > > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the

> > indicator

> > > > for

> > > > > > > > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this

> > > chart) ..

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the

> > atmakaraka

> > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present

> > there

> > > > the

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of

sagittarius)

> > > which

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord

> shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Sanjay,

 

I am glad you look at it as positive and invigorating. Unless the

unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not have had a lot of

mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many astrologers had hung

their hats of failed predictions because the nodes were

unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we focus on

the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious that must awaken us.

 

Rohiniranjan

Clarity2020

 

 

, "saggarwal_4"

<saggarwal_4> wrote:

> Dear Rohini:

>

> > Thanks for the interesting exchange.

>

> Ditto.

>

> Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That

was

> some good positive churning.

>

> Take care.

>

> Warm Regards.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking

here

> > as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a

list

> > which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although

it

> is

> > nice to see the citation now :-)

> >

> > Jyotish being an application that is highly interpretive and to

> some

> > extant personal and subjective, I have no problem with shooting

a

> > bit of philosophical or pseudophilosophical breeze (borrowed or

> > original), however, jyotish is also very technical and prone to

> > errors as we all witness and experience all the time -- hence my

> > probing to make sure what is involved in this method.

> >

> > Thanks for the interesting exchange.

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > Dear Rohini:

> > >

> > > I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self".

> > > Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very

> > truth,

> > > is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on

> it

> > > once in a while.

> > >

> > > I think I know what you are looking for now.

> > >

> > > Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting.

It

> is

> > > written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect

for

> > his

> > > writings. You may find all the information you are looking for

> > here.

> > >

> > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html

> > >

> > > Is this all what you were looking for?

> > >

> > > Always Remember:

> > >

> > > The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take

> sides

> > > while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest

> > > (asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the

> > > manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The

right

> > > approach is to worship both and realize one through the other.

> > >

> > > Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further

> > > blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other.

> > >

> > > Warmest Regards.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > >

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Sanjay,

> > > >

> > > > We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we

began

> > by

> > > my

> > > > asking a simple question to someone about their

recommendation

> > of

> > > > the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart

to

> > > figure

> > > > out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply

> > wished

> > > > to probe that a bit further since the list was very

different

> > from

> > > > what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of

> > > jyotish

> > > > and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara

> wrote,

> > I

> > > > think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still

> > coming

> > > to

> > > > grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human

> > beings.

> > > > While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out

> the

> > > > afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard

to

> > > > corroborate philosophical interpretations and

> > overinterpretations

> > > > about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would

> > > rather

> > > > not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal

> > > > territories, where pretty much anything goes.

> > > >

> > > > None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical

and

> > > > worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing

> > > > philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The

> > states

> > > > and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond

> > > jyotish

> > > > and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the

> > divine

> > > > levels of human experience.

> > > >

> > > > There should not be any confusion about the focus of the

> topic.

> > In

> > > > fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they

> > would

> > > > see that I had been talking and seeking information about a

> very

> > > > specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or

making

> > > > segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the

> > > > documentation/information (the technique or the association

> list

> > > of

> > > > planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are

not

> > > > available.

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the

> > general

> > > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self?

What

> > is

> > > > > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in

> > Jyotish?

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human

> > logic --

> > >

> > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words

that

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept

of

> > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > into

> > > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based

> on

> > > one

> > > > > > > magical

> > > > > > > > indicator etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are

> > confusing

> > > > > me ;-).

> > > > >

> > > > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have

> > > pointed

> > > > > out?

> > > > >

> > > > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Wishes and Take Care.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this

> and

> > > > what

> > > > > we

> > > > > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using

> the

> > > > 12th

> > > > > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an

> > > indicator

> > > > > of

> > > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the

> > general

> > > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > Yes Rohini Ji.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to

> > just

> > > > > seeing

> > > > > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of

> > > witness

> > > > > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established

in

> > his

> > > > true

> > > > > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes

steady

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human

> > logic --

> > >

> > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words

that

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept

of

> > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > into

> > > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based

> on

> > > one

> > > > > > > magical

> > > > > > > > indicator etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him

or

> > try

> > > to

> > > > > > > capture

> > > > > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing

> > what

> > > we

> > > > > > > preach,

> > > > > > > > because:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity

> > > > > > > > probably does not have gender

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after

> > > > passages,

> > > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized

> > > > individuals,

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then

> how

> > > can

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such

> definiteness,

> > > such

> > > > > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as

the 'pick

> > your

> > > > > ishta-

> > > > > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be

> (or

> > > > more

> > > > > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort

> > with

> > > > > those

> > > > > > > kind

> > > > > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind

of

> > > like

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Cordially,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

> > > karakamsha

> > > > > > > sounds

> > > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even

> > flaws.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

> > > rashis

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the

> > hindu

> > > > > > > framework

> > > > > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having

> to

> > > fit

> > > > > into

> > > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka

> > scheme.

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the

> case).

> > > And

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human

> population

> > > > which

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --Point very well taken.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet

> and

> > > > > still.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the

playing.

> > Even

> > > > > while

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the

> ocean

> > so

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > > waves

> > > > > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that

> happens,

> > > the

> > > > > > > ocean's

> > > > > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Surely

> > > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must

> be

> > > > > > similarly

> > > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly

> > because

> > > > > > members

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit

> all

> > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > > > > experience,

> > > > > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our

> own

> > > > Self,

> > > > > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The

> > > Supreme

> > > > > > Truth

> > > > > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades

> > > > everywhere;

> > > > > > > > however

> > > > > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no

> > > division

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > Him.

> > > > > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him

> as

> > > One.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > mantra.

> > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa".

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would

have

> a

> > > > > > documented

> > > > > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based

on

> > some

> > > > > > stream

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also

<like

> > > mars>

> > > > > and

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > fits

> > > > > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother

of

> > > > > Kartikeya

> > > > > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in

> classic

> > > > > parlance

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are

therefore

> > > > > brothers.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu

> > > > > framework'.

> > > > > > > > > Surely

> > > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must

> be

> > > > > > similarly

> > > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly

> > because

> > > > > > members

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit

> all

> > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of

> > > > > experience,

> > > > > > > > > dashas,

> > > > > > > > > > combinations, etc).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my

> > > lineage

> > > > > (one

> > > > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but

> intense

> > > > bhakti

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Shivji

> > > > > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at

> > least

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > three

> > > > > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their

> > families,

> > > > > there

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence

of

> > > > typical

> > > > > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal

> > > > religious

> > > > > > > > symbols

> > > > > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally,

probably

> > > more

> > > > > > > tolerant

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional

> > > worship

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > ritual

> > > > > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my

> personal

> > > > > leaning

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I

> > believe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a

> > > > > > > personage/entity/unit

> > > > > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What

> mind

> > > is

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > brain,

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have

> > tried

> > > to

> > > > > > force

> > > > > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form

> of

> > > Kali

> > > > > Ma

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I

> > keep

> > > > > > > returning

> > > > > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix

> of

> > > > > creation

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of

> > > karakamsha

> > > > > > > sounds

> > > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even

> > flaws.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > biggest

> > > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and

> > > rashis

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the

> > hindu

> > > > > > > framework

> > > > > > > > > (330

> > > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having

> to

> > > fit

> > > > > into

> > > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka

> > scheme.

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the

> case).

> > > And

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human

> population

> > > > which

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically

> interested

> > > (see

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you

> > obtained/reached

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

> > > rahu=Durga,

> > > > > > etc.)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and

> the

> > > > deity

> > > > > > > > > > associated

> > > > > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the

> > significance

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > creation

> > > > > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological

> > significance

> > > of

> > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > story

> > > > > > > > > > > behind it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For example:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord

> Ganesha?

> > > Why

> > > > > is

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint

> is "Ketu

> > > is

> > > > > > > > > headless".

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated

> with

> > it

> > > > > since

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > is "headless"?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else,

please

> > feel

> > > > > free

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > respond

> > > > > > > > > > > to these questions.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously.

Thanks!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically

> interested

> > > (see

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > > > > email

> > > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you

> > obtained/reached

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva,

> > > rahu=Durga,

> > > > > > etc.)

> > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics

or

> > > > > described

> > > > > > > > > > elsewhere.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been

> associated

> > > > with

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > fifth

> > > > > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a

> > > jyotishi

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > tell

> > > > > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth

> house,

> > > or

> > > > so

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > claimed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so

do

> > not

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > details.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on

> the

> > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > concordance to deities!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to

explain

> > as

> > > > > simply

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma

Phala)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as

> an

> > > > > example)

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help

> > > selflessly

> > > > in

> > > > > > > these

> > > > > > > > > > > groups.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given

a

> > > choice

> > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more

> > important

> > > > and

> > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma.

> That

> > is

> > > > why

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge

> > importance.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > conjunction

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is

> why

> > > > also

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction

does

> > not

> > > > > reveal

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in

> ones

> > > > life.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th

> > Vyaya.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > > importance

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each

> house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of

> > your

> > > > soul

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is

> > > > > constantly

> > > > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So

d-

> 9

> > > > truly

> > > > > > > shows

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > karmic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak

in

> d-

> > 9

> > > > and

> > > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > (vyaya)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in

determining

> > > > devata

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal.

If

> > we

> > > > > > > > > surrender "The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get

the "Greatest

> > > > Fruit".

> > > > > > And

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self

> called

> > > > > simply

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > Moksha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the

> > deity

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Self.

> > > > > > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of

> the

> > > > Self.

> > > > > To

> > > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > > > > oneSelf

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the

> > > Mantra.

> > > > > > > Anything

> > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is

taken

> > as

> > > > > > > a "means"

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God

> are

> > > > many,

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all

> > paths

> > > > lead

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > Him

> > > > > > > > > > > Only.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the

> > > > true "japa",

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > > > mantra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > repetition.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our

own

> > > eyes,

> > > > > > once

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > died

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By

> > losing

> > > > > > ourSelf

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a

few

> > > > charts.

> > > > > > > Where

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for

> > > > reference.

> > > > > > > Your

> > > > > > > > > list

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite

> > > common

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > jyotish,

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > course :-)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of

> > course.

> > > I

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of

the

> > > other

> > > > > > > > > religions,

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of

> > > course.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > link

> > > > > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in

> some

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > classics

> > > > > > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering

> > > > correctly).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really

> > correlate

> > > > well

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > > > devta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets

to

> > > > deities)

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > follow

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by

> KN

> > > Rao

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > recommends

> > > > > > > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So

for

> > > > > instance,

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > makar

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara

navamsha)

> > then

> > > > one

> > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for

> > > gauging

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > effects.

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben

Collins')

> > he

> > > > had

> > > > > > > given

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can

> never

> > > > occur

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as

> opposed

> > to

> > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the

> > karakamsha

> > > > sign

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then

study

> > it

> > > in

> > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the

> > association

> > > > of

> > > > > Ma

> > > > > > > > Durga

> > > > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If

12th

> > > > (Vyaya)

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the

> strength

> > > and

> > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The

Karma

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of

that

> > > planet

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > indicator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from

> karakamsa ;

> > > for

> > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji;

> > > Sukra --

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mahalaxmi

> > > > > > > > > > > Ji ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the

> aspect

> > of

> > > > > Sani,

> > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent

and

> > > > servant

> > > > > > > under

> > > > > > > > > > > > somebody.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it

> has

> > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is

> > headless

> > > > (no

> > > > > > > ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa,

> > have

> > > > the

> > > > > > > aspect

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sukra,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or

> > performer

> > > of

> > > > > > > Yagnyas

> > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > jyotish_tat_sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So

> > > anyone

> > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > empty

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha

> > would

> > > > have

> > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > ishta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devta?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in

other

> > > words

> > > > if

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > pisces

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be

Shiva)?

> > > Some

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra

> > form

> > > of

> > > > > > Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets

> > > represent

> > > > > > (12th

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > AK)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu

deities?

> > > Would

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > interested

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > probe

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this further.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign

> occupied

> > > by

> > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the

> > > indicator

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > IstaDevata

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this

> > > > chart) ..

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > , "Raghu"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the

> > > atmakaraka

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > navamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is

present

> > > there

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of

> sagittarius)

> > > > which

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord

> > shiva.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu

[Guest guest]

Rohiniranjan,

 

OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by "unless the

unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to the Sagara Madhan of

the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to discovering the truth

only after extensive churn? I confess I did not understand the rest

of that sentence or the next one either :-)

 

Anyway, to respond to your original question, that list is from the

Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by Parasara, where each

planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of course, this is

Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science, and the manuals

were written by Hindus. That said, the principles can be extended to

any religion or philosophy, as this list's moderator can attest to.

Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity, so I don't know if

this is a big issue.

 

You mentioned you would like to understand the "technique" behind

this. The technique is to correlate the qualities attributed to the

planet, with the qualities attributed to the diety. For example, Mars

is the planet of war, and denotes courage, protection of the weak (on

the positive side) or violence (the negative), and the Istha Devatha

is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha (Parasara). Is this

the sort of explanation you are looking for?

 

Venkatarama

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

> Sanjay,

>

> I am glad you look at it as positive and invigorating. Unless the

> unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not have had a lot of

> mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many astrologers had hung

> their hats of failed predictions because the nodes were

> unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we focus on

> the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious that must awaken us.

>

> Rohiniranjan

> Clarity2020

>

>

> , "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Dear Rohini:

> >

> > > Thanks for the interesting exchange.

> >

> > Ditto.

> >

> > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That

> was

> > some good positive churning.

> >

> > Take care.

> >

> > Warm Regards.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> >

> > , "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking

> here

> > > as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a

> list

> > > which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although

> it

> > is

> > > nice to see the citation now :-)

[Guest guest]

Mr, Sastry,

 

I generally like to take mythology as metaphorically captured wisdom

and not literal historical accounts as some believers do. Simply

because of the means of recording and documenting of the mythology

and the time and distance from any event that might have occurred

eons ago.

 

When exploring and examining a technique that refers to different

lists such as you have indicated (Jaimini vs Parashara and

followers -- and I would love to check that and examine it more, if

you can provide me more specific reference within Jaimini's text,

please). Parashara is more inclusive and describes the so called

Jaimini system so, as a side-comment, I do not see the Parashari

system as being exclusive of Jaimini as seems to be what some think

these days.

 

I am always wary of techniques that are too simple, single-factor

based like the 12th from karakamsha = ishtadevta, because it is not

a simple thing how one gets to or needs one ishta devta --

particularly when it is such an incomplete list even for hindus, let

alone other equally important and prevalent religions (in numbers

and impact, though obviously not on the jyotish population which is

a small sliver of humanity). Hence, illustrations and examples would

be helpful.

 

I realize that that means a lot of work. I had naively hoped, some

twenty years ago that with internet and online forums coming alive,

people will come together and pool resources and examine the

aphorisms of jyotish/astrology but I had underestimated human ego

and territoriality, even when the parched farmland does not grow a

crop that can sustain life.

 

I am interested in knowing in this specific and other instances why

there are such differences in scriptures of comparable veneration.

Not everything is due to the temporal apabhransha as outlined in my

paper on "astrotreasures that were lost in time". And, I am

intrigued by the nearly total absence of illustrations and examples

in all jyotish texts (other than Satya).

 

Most astrologers who actually look at charts on regular basis for

free or profit, run into situations where one has to do cold

readings and so one needs to figure out which techniques work. Since

there are not too many explorations in that regard, one has to do

much of the work themselves. Forums such as this can help by pooling

the experience and resource of people.

 

RR

 

 

 

, "venkatarama_sastry"

<venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> Rohiniranjan,

>

> OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by "unless the

> unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to the Sagara Madhan

of

> the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to discovering the

truth

> only after extensive churn? I confess I did not understand the

rest

> of that sentence or the next one either :-)

>

> Anyway, to respond to your original question, that list is from

the

> Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by Parasara, where each

> planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of course, this is

> Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science, and the manuals

> were written by Hindus. That said, the principles can be extended

to

> any religion or philosophy, as this list's moderator can attest

to.

> Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity, so I don't know

if

> this is a big issue.

>

> You mentioned you would like to understand the "technique" behind

> this. The technique is to correlate the qualities attributed to

the

> planet, with the qualities attributed to the diety. For example,

Mars

> is the planet of war, and denotes courage, protection of the weak

(on

> the positive side) or violence (the negative), and the Istha

Devatha

> is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha (Parasara). Is

this

> the sort of explanation you are looking for?

>

> Venkatarama

>

> , "rohiniranjan"

<rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> > Sanjay,

> >

> > I am glad you look at it as positive and invigorating. Unless

the

> > unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not have had a lot of

> > mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many astrologers had

hung

> > their hats of failed predictions because the nodes were

> > unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we focus on

> > the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious that must awaken

us.

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> > Clarity2020

> >

> >

> > , "saggarwal_4"

> > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > Dear Rohini:

> > >

> > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange.

> > >

> > > Ditto.

> > >

> > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

That

> > was

> > > some good positive churning.

> > >

> > > Take care.

> > >

> > > Warm Regards.

> > >

> > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > >

> > > , "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been

asking

> > here

> > > > as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a

> > list

> > > > which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago.

Although

> > it

> > > is

> > > > nice to see the citation now :-)

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I believe the 5th house is the house that indicates

the Purva punya we carry from different lives ...

I think 5th house is important to judge how far the

efforts that we put into anything will bear fruits ..

 

--- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote:

> This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks!

>

> But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see

> my quoted email

> below your message) as to how you obtained/reached

> the planetary

> symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga,

> etc.) which is

> different from what I have seen in classics or

> described elsewhere.

>

> Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated

> with the fifth

> house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi

> who used to tell

> very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or

> so he claimed.

> He did not like to share his techniques, so do not

> know much more

> details.

>

> Looking forward to your specific response on the

> planetary

> concordance to deities!

>

> RR

>

>

> ,

> "saggarwal_4"

> <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > Dear Rohini Ji:

> >

> > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as

> simply as I can

> > based on my understanding.

> >

> > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined

> > 10th is Karma

> > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala)

> >

> > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an

> example) is our

> > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly

> in these groups.

> > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice

> between Dharma

> > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important

> and takes

> > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is

> why lord of 9th

> and

> > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance.

> The conjunction

> of

> > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why

> also a Lord of 10

> > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not

> reveal the true

> > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones

> life.

> >

> > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya.

> The importance of

> > 12th becomes very significant from each house.

> >

> > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your

> soul from previous

> > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is

> constantly changing

> > through our karmic deeds in this life.

> >

> > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9

> truly shows the

> karmic

> > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9

> and 12th (vyaya)

> > from it gains huge importance in determining

> devata which will

> > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we

> surrender "The

> > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest

> Fruit". And that is

> the

> > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called

> simply as Moksha.

> >

> > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of

> the Self. There

> > is no greater worship than the worship of the

> Self. To lose

> oneSelf

> > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra.

> Anything or any

> > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a

> "means" and not

> as

> > the final "destination". The paths to God are

> many, it does not

> > matter which path we take. In the end all paths

> lead to Him Only.

> >

> > For the mind to observe Silence is the true

> "japa", the true

> mantra

> > repetition.

> >

> > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes,

> once we have

> died

> > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing

> ourSelf we shall

> > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live.

> >

> > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti.

> >

> > Om Tat Sat.

> >

> > Best Wishes.

> >

> > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > jyotish_tat_sat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ,

> "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few

> charts. Where is the

> > list

> > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for

> reference. Your list is

> > > quite different from others (as is quite common

> in jyotish, of

> > > course :-)

> > >

> > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I

> have seen

> others

> > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other

> religions, and

> > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course.

> The link between

> > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of

> the classics (I

> > > think Satya's work if I am remembering

> correctly).

> > >

> > > We are working with two variables here:

> > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate

> well with ishta

> devta

> > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to

> deities) to follow

> > >

> > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao

> who recommends

> > using

> > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for

> instance, if makar is

> > the

> > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then

> one should look

> at

> > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging

> the effects. I

> > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he

> had given an

> example

> > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never

> occur if we use the

> > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to

> in the rashi

> chart

> > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha

> sign from the

> > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in

> rashi chart for

> > > gauging effects)

> > >

> > > Very interesting! Particularly the association

> of Ma Durga with

> > rahu.

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > > ,

> "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rohini Ji:

> > > >

> > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th

> (Vyaya) from karakamsa

> > has

> > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and

> karma of those

> > > planets

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SBC - Internet access at a great low price.

http://promo./sbc/

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

Just sharing my view point ..

 

I can see the probable basis of assigning a ista

devata based on horoscope is based on the hindu belief

that in our course of evolution irrespective of the

ista devata we pick, we have to walk our paths which

keep narrowing until only one road is left and that is

to the aparabrahman ...

 

So is the case with something like say dasa maha vidya

.... Kali forms the last lap “to be reached” and the

first lap is represented by Kamala for the “Just

beginning” ... in between there are 8 other godesses

who represent awareness brought about in "HUMAN" life

by loss, power, etc .. It is understood that Kali

however stands at the top of the pyramid representing

the eternal night or the nirguna brahman …

 

The point is where we reach irrespective of the godess

we catch hold to begin with of is the same .. Kamala

when started out with is supposed to guide us towards

kali eventually and kali herself is supposed to throw

us into the formless Brahman ..

 

Now, I believe if a horoscope is indicative that your

ista devata is Kali, this is exactly what it may stand

for … that is to say that your final destination

before you can fathom the nirguna is Kali, never mind

if you start off with Kamala or Matangi or Durga etc …

 

So, maybe a Maha vidya upasak who starts off with his

favourite diety say, Matangi (like poet Kalidasa ..

incidentally Matangi is supposed to bestow poetic

talents J) will attain the awareness that Matangi has

to bestow on a devotee and once this is realized he

will move up the ladder as matangi leads him to

Lalitha or kali !

 

Now, what about someone who wants his first taste of

divine romance with Kali herself? Say someone like

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? He was so obsessed with the

image of kali that he was not able to go beyond her …

and godess kali sends a message in a dream to totapuri

and asks him to help Ramakrishna get rid of this image

and go beyond !! …

 

So, figuratively even though there are thousands of

goddesses there are fixed destinations we should reach

to before discarding the destinations themselves to

reach the apara Brahman … I suppose these few final

destinations that we talk of usually are Vishnu and co

...

 

Having said this … I don’t believe it’s sensible to

to ista devata based on horoscopes … just

like we don’t to the woman/man we love even

though they have a reflection in our horoscopes … in

both the areas it’s simply best to follow the hearts …

 

 

Rohini ji, you echo a lot of my feelings on arm chair

philosophy … but there are a few incidents in my life

that baffle my own beliefs .. so for now I simply

stand in “temporary suspension for selective belief”

as I go forward .. this might be my biggest hinderance

as well … however I am sure I will be on the path

someday …

 

 

--- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote:

> Mr, Sastry,

>

> I generally like to take mythology as metaphorically

> captured wisdom

> and not literal historical accounts as some

> believers do. Simply

> because of the means of recording and documenting of

> the mythology

> and the time and distance from any event that might

> have occurred

> eons ago.

>

> When exploring and examining a technique that refers

> to different

> lists such as you have indicated (Jaimini vs

> Parashara and

> followers -- and I would love to check that and

> examine it more, if

> you can provide me more specific reference within

> Jaimini's text,

> please). Parashara is more inclusive and describes

> the so called

> Jaimini system so, as a side-comment, I do not see

> the Parashari

> system as being exclusive of Jaimini as seems to be

> what some think

> these days.

>

> I am always wary of techniques that are too simple,

> single-factor

> based like the 12th from karakamsha = ishtadevta,

> because it is not

> a simple thing how one gets to or needs one ishta

> devta --

> particularly when it is such an incomplete list even

> for hindus, let

> alone other equally important and prevalent

> religions (in numbers

> and impact, though obviously not on the jyotish

> population which is

> a small sliver of humanity). Hence, illustrations

> and examples would

> be helpful.

>

> I realize that that means a lot of work. I had

> naively hoped, some

> twenty years ago that with internet and online

> forums coming alive,

> people will come together and pool resources and

> examine the

> aphorisms of jyotish/astrology but I had

> underestimated human ego

> and territoriality, even when the parched farmland

> does not grow a

> crop that can sustain life.

>

> I am interested in knowing in this specific and

> other instances why

> there are such differences in scriptures of

> comparable veneration.

> Not everything is due to the temporal apabhransha as

> outlined in my

> paper on "astrotreasures that were lost in time".

> And, I am

> intrigued by the nearly total absence of

> illustrations and examples

> in all jyotish texts (other than Satya).

>

> Most astrologers who actually look at charts on

> regular basis for

> free or profit, run into situations where one has to

> do cold

> readings and so one needs to figure out which

> techniques work. Since

> there are not too many explorations in that regard,

> one has to do

> much of the work themselves. Forums such as this can

> help by pooling

> the experience and resource of people.

>

> RR

>

>

>

> ,

> "venkatarama_sastry"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > Rohiniranjan,

> >

> > OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by

> "unless the

> > unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to

> the Sagara Madhan

> of

> > the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to

> discovering the

> truth

> > only after extensive churn? I confess I did not

> understand the

> rest

> > of that sentence or the next one either :-)

> >

> > Anyway, to respond to your original question, that

> list is from

> the

> > Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by

> Parasara, where each

> > planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of

> course, this is

> > Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science,

> and the manuals

> > were written by Hindus. That said, the principles

> can be extended

> to

> > any religion or philosophy, as this list's

> moderator can attest

> to.

> > Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity,

> so I don't know

> if

> > this is a big issue.

> >

> > You mentioned you would like to understand the

> "technique" behind

> > this. The technique is to correlate the qualities

> attributed to

> the

> > planet, with the qualities attributed to the

> diety. For example,

> Mars

> > is the planet of war, and denotes courage,

> protection of the weak

> (on

> > the positive side) or violence (the negative), and

> the Istha

> Devatha

> > is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha

> (Parasara). Is

> this

> > the sort of explanation you are looking for?

> >

> > Venkatarama

> >

> > ,

> "rohiniranjan"

> <rrgb@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > Sanjay,

> > >

> > > I am glad you look at it as positive and

> invigorating. Unless

> the

> > > unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not

> have had a lot of

> > > mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many

> astrologers had

> hung

> > > their hats of failed predictions because the

> nodes were

> > > unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we

> focus on

> > > the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious

> that must awaken

> us.

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > > Clarity2020

> > >

> > >

> > > ,

> "saggarwal_4"

> > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange.

> > > >

> > > > Ditto.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly

> enjoyed it.

> That

> > > was

> > > > some good positive churning.

> > > >

> > > > Take care.

> > > >

> > > > Warm Regards.

> > > >

> > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > >

> > > > ,

> "rohiniranjan"

> > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I

> have been

> asking

> > > here

> > > > > as a questioning towards the technique. It

> also just gives a

> > > list

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Very thought provoking! Thanks!!

 

Incidentally, I went on Mr. Sastry's advice to Jaimini Sutra and in Rath's =

translation, on page 48, the JAIMINI list includes Sun as

indicative of Shiva and Jupiter as Samba Shiva. Two spots taken up by Baba =

Onkarnath! Good to see it is not just Jupiter as some

have tried to indicate.

 

RR

 

 

, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv=

> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> Just sharing my view point ..

>

> I can see the probable basis of assigning a ista

> devata based on horoscope is based on the hindu belief

> that in our course of evolution irrespective of the

> ista devata we pick, we have to walk our paths which

> keep narrowing until only one road is left and that is

> to the aparabrahman ...

>

> So is the case with something like say dasa maha vidya

> ... Kali forms the last lap "to be reached" and the

> first lap is represented by Kamala for the "Just

> beginning" ... in between there are 8 other godesses

> who represent awareness brought about in "HUMAN" life

> by loss, power, etc .. It is understood that Kali

> however stands at the top of the pyramid representing

> the eternal night or the nirguna brahman …

>

> The point is where we reach irrespective of the godess

> we catch hold to begin with of is the same .. Kamala

> when started out with is supposed to guide us towards

> kali eventually and kali herself is supposed to throw

> us into the formless Brahman ..

>

> Now, I believe if a horoscope is indicative that your

> ista devata is Kali, this is exactly what it may stand

> for … that is to say that your final destination

> before you can fathom the nirguna is Kali, never mind

> if you start off with Kamala or Matangi or Durga etc …

>

> So, maybe a Maha vidya upasak who starts off with his

> favourite diety say, Matangi (like poet Kalidasa ..

> incidentally Matangi is supposed to bestow poetic

> talents J) will attain the awareness that Matangi has

> to bestow on a devotee and once this is realized he

> will move up the ladder as matangi leads him to

> Lalitha or kali !

>

> Now, what about someone who wants his first taste of

> divine romance with Kali herself? Say someone like

> Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? He was so obsessed with the

> image of kali that he was not able to go beyond her …

> and godess kali sends a message in a dream to totapuri

> and asks him to help Ramakrishna get rid of this image

> and go beyond !! …

>

> So, figuratively even though there are thousands of

> goddesses there are fixed destinations we should reach

> to before discarding the destinations themselves to

> reach the apara Brahman … I suppose these few final

> destinations that we talk of usually are Vishnu and co

> ..

>

> Having said this … I don't believe it's sensible to

> to ista devata based on horoscopes … just

> like we don't to the woman/man we love even

> though they have a reflection in our horoscopes … in

> both the areas it's simply best to follow the hearts …

>

>

> Rohini ji, you echo a lot of my feelings on arm chair

> philosophy … but there are a few incidents in my life

> that baffle my own beliefs .. so for now I simply

> stand in "temporary suspension for selective belief"

> as I go forward .. this might be my biggest hinderance

> as well … however I am sure I will be on the path

> someday …

>

>

> --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > Mr, Sastry,

> >

> > I generally like to take mythology as metaphorically

> > captured wisdom

> > and not literal historical accounts as some

> > believers do. Simply

> > because of the means of recording and documenting of

> > the mythology

> > and the time and distance from any event that might

> > have occurred

> > eons ago.

> >

> > When exploring and examining a technique that refers

> > to different

> > lists such as you have indicated (Jaimini vs

> > Parashara and

> > followers -- and I would love to check that and

> > examine it more, if

> > you can provide me more specific reference within

> > Jaimini's text,

> > please). Parashara is more inclusive and describes

> > the so called

> > Jaimini system so, as a side-comment, I do not see

> > the Parashari

> > system as being exclusive of Jaimini as seems to be

> > what some think

> > these days.

> >

> > I am always wary of techniques that are too simple,

> > single-factor

> > based like the 12th from karakamsha = ishtadevta,

> > because it is not

> > a simple thing how one gets to or needs one ishta

> > devta --

> > particularly when it is such an incomplete list even

> > for hindus, let

> > alone other equally important and prevalent

> > religions (in numbers

> > and impact, though obviously not on the jyotish

> > population which is

> > a small sliver of humanity). Hence, illustrations

> > and examples would

> > be helpful.

> >

> > I realize that that means a lot of work. I had

> > naively hoped, some

> > twenty years ago that with internet and online

> > forums coming alive,

> > people will come together and pool resources and

> > examine the

> > aphorisms of jyotish/astrology but I had

> > underestimated human ego

> > and territoriality, even when the parched farmland

> > does not grow a

> > crop that can sustain life.

> >

> > I am interested in knowing in this specific and

> > other instances why

> > there are such differences in scriptures of

> > comparable veneration.

> > Not everything is due to the temporal apabhransha as

> > outlined in my

> > paper on "astrotreasures that were lost in time".

> > And, I am

> > intrigued by the nearly total absence of

> > illustrations and examples

> > in all jyotish texts (other than Satya).

> >

> > Most astrologers who actually look at charts on

> > regular basis for

> > free or profit, run into situations where one has to

> > do cold

> > readings and so one needs to figure out which

> > techniques work. Since

> > there are not too many explorations in that regard,

> > one has to do

> > much of the work themselves. Forums such as this can

> > help by pooling

> > the experience and resource of people.

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> >

> > ,

> > "venkatarama_sastry"

> > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > Rohiniranjan,

> > >

> > > OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by

> > "unless the

> > > unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to

> > the Sagara Madhan

> > of

> > > the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to

> > discovering the

> > truth

> > > only after extensive churn? I confess I did not

> > understand the

> > rest

> > > of that sentence or the next one either :-)

> > >

> > > Anyway, to respond to your original question, that

> > list is from

> > the

> > > Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by

> > Parasara, where each

> > > planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of

> > course, this is

> > > Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science,

> > and the manuals

> > > were written by Hindus. That said, the principles

> > can be extended

> > to

> > > any religion or philosophy, as this list's

> > moderator can attest

> > to.

> > > Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity,

> > so I don't know

> > if

> > > this is a big issue.

> > >

> > > You mentioned you would like to understand the

> > "technique" behind

> > > this. The technique is to correlate the qualities

> > attributed to

> > the

> > > planet, with the qualities attributed to the

> > diety. For example,

> > Mars

> > > is the planet of war, and denotes courage,

> > protection of the weak

> > (on

> > > the positive side) or violence (the negative), and

> > the Istha

> > Devatha

> > > is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha

> > (Parasara). Is

> > this

> > > the sort of explanation you are looking for?

> > >

> > > Venkatarama

> > >

> > > ,

> > "rohiniranjan"

> > <rrgb@s...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Sanjay,

> > > >

> > > > I am glad you look at it as positive and

> > invigorating. Unless

> > the

> > > > unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not

> > have had a lot of

> > > > mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many

> > astrologers had

> > hung

> > > > their hats of failed predictions because the

> > nodes were

> > > > unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we

> > focus on

> > > > the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious

> > that must awaken

> > us.

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > Clarity2020

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > "saggarwal_4"

> > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Rohini:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ditto.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly

> > enjoyed it.

> > That

> > > > was

> > > > > some good positive churning.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care.

> > > > >

> > > > > Warm Regards.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > "rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rrgb@s...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I

> > have been

> > asking

> > > > here

> > > > > > as a questioning towards the technique. It

> > also just gives a

> > > > list

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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