Guest guest Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Dear Rohini Ji: Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I can based on my understanding. 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined 10th is Karma 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these groups. But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between Dharma and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of 9th and lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The conjunction of Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of 10 without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the true nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance of 12th becomes very significant from each house. Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from previous cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing through our karmic deeds in this life. Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the karmic nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th (vyaya) from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that is the bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as Moksha. Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. There is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or any devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and not as the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does not matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him Only. For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true mantra repetition. Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we have died in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we shall find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. Om Tat Sat. Best Wishes. --Sanjay Aggarwal jyotish_tat_sat , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is the list > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list is > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, of > course :-) > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen others > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions, and > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link between > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics (I > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > We are working with two variables here: > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with ishta devta > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who recommends using > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar is the > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should look at > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. I > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an example > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use the > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi chart > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart for > gauging effects) > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga with rahu. > > Rohiniranjan > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from karakamsa has > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of those > planets > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet which is > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the > indicator > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example Dhanus and > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi Ji ; > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will become > a > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under somebody. > If > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great significance for > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego). > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of Sukra, > the > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or > religious > > sacrifices. > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an empty > dhanus > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as ishta > > devta? > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was pisces > > instead > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that surya > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from AK)? > Which > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be interested to > probe > > > this further. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. So Lord > of > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for IstaDevata > (since > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in this > case > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the navamsa > > becomes > > > > the > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of the > > > karakamsa > > > > ( > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be guru of > > > course > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted email below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) which is different from what I have seen in classics or described elsewhere. Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the fifth house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used to tell very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he claimed. He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much more details. Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary concordance to deities! RR , "saggarwal_4" <saggarwal_4> wrote: > Dear Rohini Ji: > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I can > based on my understanding. > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > 10th is Karma > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these groups. > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between Dharma > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of 9th and > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The conjunction of > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of 10 > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the true > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance of > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from previous > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the karmic > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th (vyaya) > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that is the > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as Moksha. > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. There > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose oneSelf > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or any > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and not as > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does not > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him Only. > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true mantra > repetition. > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we have died > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we shall > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > Om Tat Sat. > > Best Wishes. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is the > list > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list is > > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, of > > course :-) > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen others > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions, and > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link between > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics (I > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with ishta devta > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who recommends > using > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar is > the > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should look at > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. I > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an example > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use the > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi chart > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart for > > gauging effects) > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga with > rahu. > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from karakamsa > has > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of those > > planets > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet which is > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the > > indicator > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example Dhanus and > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi Ji ; > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will > become > > a > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under somebody. > > If > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great significance > for > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego). > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of Sukra, > > the > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or > > religious > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an empty > > dhanus > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as ishta > > > devta? > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was pisces > > > instead > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that surya > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from AK)? > > Which > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be interested to > > probe > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. So > Lord > > of > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for IstaDevata > > (since > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in this > > case > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the navamsa > > > becomes > > > > > the > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of the > > > > karakamsa > > > > > ( > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be guru > of > > > > course > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Dear Rohini: > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted email > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) You ask too much :-). Just kidding. There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity associated with it. For this you have to read the significance and creation behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each story behind it. For example: Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it said that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is headless". Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it is "headless"? I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to respond to these questions. Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. Om Tat Sat. Best Wishes. --Sanjay Aggarwal , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted email > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) which is > different from what I have seen in classics or described elsewhere. > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the fifth > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used to tell > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he claimed. > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much more > details. > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary > concordance to deities! > > RR > > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I can > > based on my understanding. > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > 10th is Karma > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these groups. > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between Dharma > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of 9th > and > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The conjunction > of > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of 10 > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the true > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance of > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from previous > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the > karmic > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th (vyaya) > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that is > the > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as Moksha. > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. There > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose > oneSelf > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or any > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and not > as > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does not > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him Only. > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true > mantra > > repetition. > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we have > died > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we shall > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is the > > list > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list is > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, of > > > course :-) > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen > others > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions, and > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link between > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics (I > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with ishta > devta > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who recommends > > using > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar is > > the > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should look > at > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. I > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an > example > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use the > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi > chart > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart for > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga with > > rahu. > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from karakamsa > > has > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of those > > > planets > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet which > is > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the > > > indicator > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example Dhanus > and > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi Ji ; > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will > > become > > > a > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under > somebody. > > > If > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great significance > > for > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego). > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of > Sukra, > > > the > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or > > > religious > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an empty > > > dhanus > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as > ishta > > > > devta? > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was pisces > > > > instead > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that surya > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from AK)? > > > Which > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be interested to > > > probe > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. So > > Lord > > > of > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for IstaDevata > > > (since > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in this > > > case > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the navamsa > > > > becomes > > > > > > the > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of the > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be guru > > of > > > > > course > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 I was hoping that the association list would have a documented footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream of consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so fits the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance from what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers. The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'. Surely the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, dashas, combinations, etc). In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one before and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in Shivji during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the three or four generations surrounding me and their families, there is a significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious symbols that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more tolerant of other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and ritual symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that even nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a personage/entity/unit outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to brain, in a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma has drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep returning back to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation and creator -- but one and not many forms. While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which would only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework (330 million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each if the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it is well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is neither hindu nor atheistic. Rohiniranjan , "saggarwal_4" <saggarwal_4> wrote: > Dear Rohini: > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted > email > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity associated > with it. For this you have to read the significance and creation > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each story > behind it. > > For example: > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it said > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is headless". > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it > is "headless"? > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to respond > to these questions. > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > Om Tat Sat. > > Best Wishes. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted > email > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) which > is > > different from what I have seen in classics or described elsewhere. > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the fifth > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used to > tell > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he claimed. > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much more > > details. > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary > > concordance to deities! > > > > RR > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I can > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > 10th is Karma > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these > groups. > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between > Dharma > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of 9th > > and > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The conjunction > > of > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of 10 > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the true > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance > of > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from > previous > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the > > karmic > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th > (vyaya) > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that is > > the > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as Moksha. > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. > There > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose > > oneSelf > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or > any > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and > not > > as > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does not > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him > Only. > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true > > mantra > > > repetition. > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we have > > died > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we shall > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is > the > > > list > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list > is > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, of > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen > > others > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions, > and > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link > between > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics > (I > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with ishta > > devta > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who recommends > > > using > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar > is > > > the > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should look > > at > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. I > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an > > example > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use > the > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi > > chart > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart > for > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga > with > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from > karakamsa > > > has > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of those > > > > planets > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet which > > is > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the > > > > indicator > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example Dhanus > > and > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi > Ji ; > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will > > > become > > > > a > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under > > somebody. > > > > If > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great > significance > > > for > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego). > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of > > Sukra, > > > > the > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or > > > > religious > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an > empty > > > > dhanus > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as > > ishta > > > > > devta? > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was > pisces > > > > > instead > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that surya > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from > AK)? > > > > Which > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be interested > to > > > > probe > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. So > > > Lord > > > > of > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for IstaDevata > > > > (since > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in > this > > > > case > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the > navamsa > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of > the > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be > guru > > > of > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Dear Rohini Ji: > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which would > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework (330 > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each if > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it is > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > neither hindu nor atheistic. --Point very well taken. Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still. The Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while it is playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many waves leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the ocean's profoundity is not disturbed. >Surely > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, dashas, > combinations, etc). My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self, understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme Truth dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere; however He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in Him. We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One. Whatever there is, it is all Him. To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the mantra. For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". Om Tat Sat. Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. --Sanjay Aggarwal. , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > I was hoping that the association list would have a documented > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream of > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so fits > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance from > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers. > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'. Surely > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, dashas, > combinations, etc). > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one before > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in Shivji > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the three > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there is a > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious symbols > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more tolerant of > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and ritual > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that even > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a personage/entity/unit > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to brain, in > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma has > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep returning back > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation and > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which would > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework (330 > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each if > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it is > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > Rohiniranjan > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted > > email > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity > associated > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and creation > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each story > > behind it. > > > > For example: > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it said > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is headless". > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it > > is "headless"? > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to > respond > > to these questions. > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted > > email > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the planetary > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) which > > is > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described > elsewhere. > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the fifth > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used to > > tell > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he > claimed. > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much > more > > > details. > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I > can > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is our > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these > > groups. > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between > > Dharma > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of > 9th > > > and > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The > conjunction > > > of > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord of > 10 > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the > true > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The importance > > of > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from > > previous > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly changing > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows the > > > karmic > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th > > (vyaya) > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which will > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we surrender "The > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that > is > > > the > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as > Moksha. > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. > > There > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose > > > oneSelf > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything or > > any > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" and > > not > > > as > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does > not > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him > > Only. > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true > > > mantra > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we > have > > > died > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we > shall > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where is > > the > > > > list > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your list > > is > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in jyotish, > of > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen > > > others > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other religions, > > and > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link > > between > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the classics > > (I > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with > ishta > > > devta > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to follow > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who > recommends > > > > using > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if makar > > is > > > > the > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should > look > > > at > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the effects. > I > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an > > > example > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we use > > the > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the rashi > > > chart > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from the > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi chart > > for > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga > > with > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from > > karakamsa > > > > has > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of > those > > > > > planets > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet > which > > > is > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be the > > > > > indicator > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example > Dhanus > > > and > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- Mahalaxmi > > Ji ; > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he will > > > > become > > > > > a > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under > > > somebody. > > > > > If > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great > > significance > > > > for > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect of > > > Sukra, > > > > > the > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas or > > > > > religious > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an > > empty > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva as > > > ishta > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was > > pisces > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that > surya > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th from > > AK)? > > > > > Which > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be > interested > > to > > > > > probe > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by Atmakaraka. > So > > > > Lord > > > > > of > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for > IstaDevata > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which in > > this > > > > > case > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the > > navamsa > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord of > > the > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would be > > guru > > > > of > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Sanjay, Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity into simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one magical indicator etc. Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to capture Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we preach, because: God is probably not a being or entity probably does not have gender When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages, books after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals, not ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can we satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your ishta- devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with those kind of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like many such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. Cordially, Rohiniranjan , "saggarwal_4" <saggarwal_4> wrote: > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which > would > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework > (330 > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each > if > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it > is > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > --Point very well taken. > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still. The > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while it is > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many waves > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the ocean's > profoundity is not disturbed. > > >Surely > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > dashas, > > combinations, etc). > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self, > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme Truth > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere; however > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in Him. > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One. > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the mantra. > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > Om Tat Sat. > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > I was hoping that the association list would have a documented > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream of > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so > fits > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance from > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers. > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'. > Surely > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members of > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > dashas, > > combinations, etc). > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one > before > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in > Shivji > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the three > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there is a > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious symbols > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more tolerant > of > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and ritual > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that even > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a personage/entity/unit > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to brain, > in > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma has > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep returning > back > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation and > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The biggest > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which > would > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework > (330 > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into each > if > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if it > is > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted > > > email > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > planetary > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity > > associated > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and creation > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each > story > > > behind it. > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it > said > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is > headless". > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to > > respond > > > to these questions. > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my quoted > > > email > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > planetary > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > which > > > is > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the > fifth > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used > to > > > tell > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he > > claimed. > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much > > more > > > > details. > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as I > > can > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is > our > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these > > > groups. > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between > > > Dharma > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord of > > 9th > > > > and > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The > > conjunction > > > > of > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord > of > > 10 > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the > > true > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The > importance > > > of > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from > > > previous > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly > changing > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows > the > > > > karmic > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th > > > (vyaya) > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which > will > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > surrender "The > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And that > > is > > > > the > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the Self. > > > There > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To lose > > > > oneSelf > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything > or > > > any > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" > and > > > not > > > > as > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it does > > not > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to Him > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the true > > > > mantra > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we > > have > > > > died > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we > > shall > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where > is > > > the > > > > > list > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your > list > > > is > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in > jyotish, > > of > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have seen > > > > others > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other > religions, > > > and > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link > > > between > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the > classics > > > (I > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with > > ishta > > > > devta > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who > > recommends > > > > > using > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if > makar > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one should > > look > > > > at > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the > effects. > > I > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given an > > > > example > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we > use > > > the > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the > rashi > > > > chart > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from > the > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi > chart > > > for > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma Durga > > > with > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from > > > karakamsa > > > > > has > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of > > those > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet > > which > > > > is > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be > the > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example > > Dhanus > > > > and > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- > Mahalaxmi > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he > will > > > > > become > > > > > > a > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under > > > > somebody. > > > > > > If > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great > > > significance > > > > > for > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect > of > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas > or > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having an > > > empty > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva > as > > > > ishta > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it was > > > pisces > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that > > surya > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th > from > > > AK)? > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be > > interested > > > to > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by > Atmakaraka. > > So > > > > > Lord > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for > > IstaDevata > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which > in > > > this > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the > > > navamsa > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the lord > of > > > the > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would > be > > > guru > > > > > of > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Yes Rohini Ji. That is why great beings never give much importance to just seeing their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his true nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in the awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. Om Tat Sat. Best Wishes. --Sanjay Aggarwal jyotish_tat_sat , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Sanjay, > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity into > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one magical > indicator etc. > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to capture > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we preach, > because: > > God is probably not a being or entity > probably does not have gender > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages, books > after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals, not > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can we > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your ishta- > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with those kind > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like many > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > Cordially, > > Rohiniranjan > > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > biggest > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which > > would > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework > > (330 > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into > each > > if > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if > it > > is > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still. The > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while it > is > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many > waves > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the ocean's > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > >Surely > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members > of > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > > dashas, > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self, > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme Truth > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere; > however > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in Him. > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One. > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the mantra. > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a documented > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream of > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so > > fits > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance > from > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers. > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'. > > Surely > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members > of > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > > dashas, > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one > > before > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in > > Shivji > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the > three > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there is > a > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious > symbols > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more tolerant > > of > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and > ritual > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that even > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a personage/entity/unit > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to > brain, > > in > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma has > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep returning > > back > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation and > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha sounds > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > biggest > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which > > would > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu framework > > (330 > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into > each > > if > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if > it > > is > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then we > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my > quoted > > > > email > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > planetary > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity > > > associated > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and > creation > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each > > story > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it > > said > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is > > headless". > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since it > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to > > > respond > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my > quoted > > > > email > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > planetary > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > > which > > > > is > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the > > fifth > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who used > > to > > > > tell > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he > > > claimed. > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know much > > > more > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply as > I > > > can > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) is > > our > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in these > > > > groups. > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice between > > > > Dharma > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and takes > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why lord > of > > > 9th > > > > > and > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The > > > conjunction > > > > > of > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a Lord > > of > > > 10 > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal the > > > true > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The > > importance > > > > of > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul from > > > > previous > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly > > changing > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly shows > > the > > > > > karmic > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and 12th > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata which > > will > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > > surrender "The > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And > that > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the > Self. > > > > There > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To > lose > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. Anything > > or > > > > any > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a "means" > > and > > > > not > > > > > as > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it > does > > > not > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to > Him > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the > true > > > > > mantra > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once we > > > have > > > > > died > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf we > > > shall > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. Where > > is > > > > the > > > > > > list > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. Your > > list > > > > is > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in > > jyotish, > > > of > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have > seen > > > > > others > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other > > religions, > > > > and > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The link > > > > between > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the > > classics > > > > (I > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well with > > > ishta > > > > > devta > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who > > > recommends > > > > > > using > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if > > makar > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one > should > > > look > > > > > at > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the > > effects. > > > I > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had given > an > > > > > example > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if we > > use > > > > the > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the > > rashi > > > > > chart > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign from > > the > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi > > chart > > > > for > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma > Durga > > > > with > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma of > > > those > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the planet > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will be > > the > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for example > > > Dhanus > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- > > Mahalaxmi > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, he > > will > > > > > > become > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant under > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great > > > > significance > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the aspect > > of > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of Yagnyas > > or > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having > an > > > > empty > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have Shiva > > as > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it > was > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say that > > > surya > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th > > from > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be > > > interested > > > > to > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by > > Atmakaraka. > > > So > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. which > > in > > > > this > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in the > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the > lord > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which would > > be > > > > guru > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and what we were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the 12th from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an indicator of ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general framework of jyotish! ;-) , "saggarwal_4" <saggarwal_4> wrote: > Yes Rohini Ji. > > That is why great beings never give much importance to just seeing > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his true > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in the > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. > > Om Tat Sat. > > Best Wishes. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > jyotish_tat_sat > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Sanjay, > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity > into > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one > magical > > indicator etc. > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to > capture > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we > preach, > > because: > > > > God is probably not a being or entity > > probably does not have gender > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages, > books > > after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals, not > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can we > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your ishta- > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with those > kind > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like many > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > > > Cordially, > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > sounds > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > > biggest > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which > > > would > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > framework > > > (330 > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into > > each > > > if > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if > > it > > > is > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then > we > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still. > The > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while > it > > is > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many > > waves > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the > ocean's > > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > > > >Surely > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members > > of > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > > > dashas, > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self, > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme Truth > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere; > > however > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in > Him. > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One. > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the > mantra. > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a documented > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some stream > of > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and so > > > fits > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance > > from > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers. > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'. > > > Surely > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be similarly > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because members > > of > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > > > dashas, > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one > > > before > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti in > > > Shivji > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the > > three > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there > is > > a > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious > > symbols > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more > tolerant > > > of > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and > > ritual > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning is > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that > even > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a > personage/entity/unit > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to > > brain, > > > in > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to force > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma > has > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep > returning > > > back > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation > and > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > sounds > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > > biggest > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis which > > > would > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > framework > > > (330 > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into > > each > > > if > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even if > > it > > > is > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And then > we > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which is > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my > > quoted > > > > > email > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > > planetary > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity > > > > associated > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and > > creation > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of each > > > story > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is it > > > said > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is > > > headless". > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since > it > > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free to > > > > respond > > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my > > quoted > > > > > email > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > > planetary > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, etc.) > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described > > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with the > > > fifth > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who > used > > > to > > > > > tell > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so he > > > > claimed. > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know > much > > > > more > > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the planetary > > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply > as > > I > > > > can > > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) > is > > > our > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in > these > > > > > groups. > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice > between > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and > takes > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why > lord > > of > > > > 9th > > > > > > and > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The > > > > conjunction > > > > > > of > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a > Lord > > > of > > > > 10 > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal > the > > > > true > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The > > > importance > > > > > of > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul > from > > > > > previous > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly > > > changing > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly > shows > > > the > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and > 12th > > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata > which > > > will > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > > > surrender "The > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". And > > that > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply as > > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the > > Self. > > > > > There > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To > > lose > > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. > Anything > > > or > > > > > any > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as > a "means" > > > and > > > > > not > > > > > > as > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead to > > Him > > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", the > > true > > > > > > mantra > > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, once > we > > > > have > > > > > > died > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing ourSelf > we > > > > shall > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. > Where > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. > Your > > > list > > > > > is > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in > > > jyotish, > > > > of > > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I have > > seen > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other > > > religions, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The > link > > > > > between > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the > > > classics > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well > with > > > > ishta > > > > > > devta > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) to > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who > > > > recommends > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, if > > > makar > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one > > should > > > > look > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the > > > effects. > > > > I > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had > given > > an > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if > we > > > use > > > > > the > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in the > > > rashi > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign > from > > > the > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in rashi > > > chart > > > > > for > > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma > > Durga > > > > > with > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) from > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and karma > of > > > > those > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the > planet > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet will > be > > > the > > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for > example > > > > Dhanus > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- > > > Mahalaxmi > > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, > he > > > will > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant > under > > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great > > > > > significance > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no > ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the > aspect > > > of > > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of > Yagnyas > > > or > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone having > > an > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have > Shiva > > > as > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if it > > was > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say > that > > > > surya > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent (12th > > > from > > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be > > > > interested > > > > > to > > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by > > > Atmakaraka. > > > > So > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for > > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. > which > > > in > > > > > this > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in > the > > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the > > lord > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which > would > > > be > > > > > guru > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > framework of jyotish! ;-) > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What is Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in Jyotish? > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity > > into > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one > > magical > > > indicator etc. I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are confusing me ;-). Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have pointed out? If you dont, then I wish you all the best. Best Wishes and Take Care. --Sanjay Aggarwal , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and what we > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the 12th > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an indicator of > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Yes Rohini Ji. > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to just seeing > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his true > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in the > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of divinity > > into > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one > > magical > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to > > capture > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we > > preach, > > > because: > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity > > > probably does not have gender > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages, > > books > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals, > not > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can we > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your ishta- > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with those > > kind > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like many > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > > sounds > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > > > biggest > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis > which > > > > would > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > framework > > > > (330 > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into > > > each > > > > if > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even > if > > > it > > > > is > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And > then > > we > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which > is > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and still. > > The > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even while > > it > > > is > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so many > > > waves > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the > > ocean's > > > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > > > > > >Surely > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > similarly > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > members > > > of > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > > > > dashas, > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self, > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme > Truth > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere; > > > however > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division in > > Him. > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One. > > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the > > mantra. > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a > documented > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some > stream > > of > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> and > so > > > > fits > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of Kartikeya > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic parlance > > > from > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore brothers. > > > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu framework'. > > > > Surely > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > similarly > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > members > > > of > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of experience, > > > > dashas, > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage (one > > > > before > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti > in > > > > Shivji > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in the > > > three > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, there > > is > > > a > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious > > > symbols > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more > > tolerant > > > > of > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship and > > > ritual > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal leaning > is > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe that > > even > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a > > personage/entity/unit > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to > > > brain, > > > > in > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to > force > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali Ma > > has > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep > > returning > > > > back > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of creation > > and > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > > sounds > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > > > biggest > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis > which > > > > would > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > framework > > > > (330 > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit into > > > each > > > > if > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. Even > if > > > it > > > > is > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And > then > > we > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which > is > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my > > > quoted > > > > > > email > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > > > planetary > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, > etc.) > > > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity > > > > > associated > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and > > > creation > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of > each > > > > story > > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why is > it > > > > said > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is > > > > headless". > > > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it since > > it > > > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel free > to > > > > > respond > > > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see my > > > quoted > > > > > > email > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > > > planetary > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, > etc.) > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or described > > > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with > the > > > > fifth > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi who > > used > > > > to > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so > he > > > > > claimed. > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not know > > much > > > > > more > > > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the > planetary > > > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as simply > > as > > > I > > > > > can > > > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an example) > > is > > > > our > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in > > these > > > > > > groups. > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice > > between > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and > > takes > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why > > lord > > > of > > > > > 9th > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The > > > > > conjunction > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also a > > Lord > > > > of > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not reveal > > the > > > > > true > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The > > > > importance > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul > > from > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is constantly > > > > changing > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly > > shows > > > > the > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and > > 12th > > > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata > > which > > > > will > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > > > > surrender "The > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". > And > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called simply > as > > > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of the > > > Self. > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. To > > > lose > > > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. > > Anything > > > > or > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as > > a "means" > > > > and > > > > > > not > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, it > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead > to > > > Him > > > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", > the > > > true > > > > > > > mantra > > > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, > once > > we > > > > > have > > > > > > > died > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing > ourSelf > > we > > > > > shall > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. > > Where > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. > > Your > > > > list > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in > > > > jyotish, > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I > have > > > seen > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other > > > > religions, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. The > > link > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of the > > > > classics > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well > > with > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > devta > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) > to > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao who > > > > > recommends > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for instance, > if > > > > makar > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one > > > should > > > > > look > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging the > > > > effects. > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had > > given > > > an > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur if > > we > > > > use > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in > the > > > > rashi > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign > > from > > > > the > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in > rashi > > > > chart > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of Ma > > > Durga > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) > from > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and > karma > > of > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the > > planet > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet > will > > be > > > > the > > > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for > > example > > > > > Dhanus > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- > > > > Mahalaxmi > > > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of Sani, > > he > > > > will > > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant > > under > > > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great > > > > > > significance > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no > > ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the > > aspect > > > > of > > > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of > > Yagnyas > > > > or > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone > having > > > an > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have > > Shiva > > > > as > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if > it > > > was > > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some say > > that > > > > > surya > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of > Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent > (12th > > > > from > > > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be > > > > > interested > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by > > > > Atmakaraka. > > > > > So > > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator for > > > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. > > which > > > > in > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka in > > the > > > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there the > > > lord > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which > > would > > > > be > > > > > > guru > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Sanjay, We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began by my asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation of the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to figure out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply wished to probe that a bit further since the list was very different from what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of jyotish and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara wrote, I think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still coming to grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human beings. While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out the afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to corroborate philosophical interpretations and overinterpretations about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would rather not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal territories, where pretty much anything goes. None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The states and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond jyotish and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the divine levels of human experience. There should not be any confusion about the focus of the topic. In fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they would see that I had been talking and seeking information about a very specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the documentation/information (the technique or the association list of planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not available. Rohiniranjan , "saggarwal_4" <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What is > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in Jyotish? > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > divinity > > > into > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one > > > magical > > > > indicator etc. > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are confusing > me ;-). > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have pointed > out? > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best. > > Best Wishes and Take Care. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and what > we > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the 12th > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an indicator > of > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > Yes Rohini Ji. > > > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to just > seeing > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his true > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. > > > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in the > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > divinity > > > into > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one > > > magical > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to > > > capture > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we > > > preach, > > > > because: > > > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity > > > > probably does not have gender > > > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after passages, > > > books > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized individuals, > > not > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can > we > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your > ishta- > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or more > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with > those > > > kind > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like > many > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > > > sounds > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > > > > biggest > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis > > which > > > > > would > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > > framework > > > > > (330 > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit > into > > > > each > > > > > if > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. > Even > > if > > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And > > then > > > we > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which > > is > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and > still. > > > The > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even > while > > > it > > > > is > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so > many > > > > waves > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the > > > ocean's > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > > > > > > > >Surely > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > similarly > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > > members > > > > of > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > experience, > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own Self, > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme > > Truth > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades everywhere; > > > > however > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division > in > > > Him. > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the > > > mantra. > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a > > documented > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some > > stream > > > of > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> > and > > so > > > > > fits > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of > Kartikeya > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic > parlance > > > > from > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore > brothers. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu > framework'. > > > > > Surely > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > similarly > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > > members > > > > of > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all other > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > experience, > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage > (one > > > > > before > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense bhakti > > in > > > > > Shivji > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in > the > > > > three > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, > there > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of typical > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal religious > > > > symbols > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more > > > tolerant > > > > > of > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship > and > > > > ritual > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal > leaning > > is > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe > that > > > even > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a > > > personage/entity/unit > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is to > > > > brain, > > > > > in > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to > > force > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali > Ma > > > has > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep > > > returning > > > > > back > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of > creation > > > and > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > > > sounds > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. The > > > > biggest > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis > > which > > > > > would > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > > framework > > > > > (330 > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit > into > > > > each > > > > > if > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. > Even > > if > > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And > > then > > > we > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population which > > is > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see > my > > > > quoted > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, > > etc.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the deity > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance and > > > > creation > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of > > each > > > > > story > > > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why > is > > it > > > > > said > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is > > > > > headless". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it > since > > > it > > > > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel > free > > to > > > > > > respond > > > > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see > my > > > > quoted > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached the > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, > > etc.) > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or > described > > > > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated with > > the > > > > > fifth > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi > who > > > used > > > > > to > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or so > > he > > > > > > claimed. > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not > know > > > much > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the > > planetary > > > > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as > simply > > > as > > > > I > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an > example) > > > is > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly in > > > these > > > > > > > groups. > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice > > > between > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important and > > > takes > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is why > > > lord > > > > of > > > > > > 9th > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. The > > > > > > conjunction > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why also > a > > > Lord > > > > > of > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not > reveal > > > the > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. The > > > > > importance > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your soul > > > from > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is > constantly > > > > > changing > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 truly > > > shows > > > > > the > > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 and > > > 12th > > > > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining devata > > > which > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > > > > > surrender "The > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest Fruit". > > And > > > > that > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called > simply > > as > > > > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of > the > > > > Self. > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the Self. > To > > > > lose > > > > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. > > > Anything > > > > > or > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as > > > a "means" > > > > > and > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are many, > it > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths lead > > to > > > > Him > > > > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true "japa", > > the > > > > true > > > > > > > > mantra > > > > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, > > once > > > we > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > died > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing > > ourSelf > > > we > > > > > > shall > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few charts. > > > Where > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for reference. > > > Your > > > > > list > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common in > > > > > jyotish, > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I > > have > > > > seen > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other > > > > > religions, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. > The > > > link > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of > the > > > > > classics > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate well > > > with > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > devta > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to deities) > > to > > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao > who > > > > > > recommends > > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for > instance, > > if > > > > > makar > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then one > > > > should > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging > the > > > > > effects. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he had > > > given > > > > an > > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never occur > if > > > we > > > > > use > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to in > > the > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha sign > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in > > rashi > > > > > chart > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association of > Ma > > > > Durga > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th (Vyaya) > > from > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and > > karma > > > of > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of the > > > planet > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet > > will > > > be > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for > > > example > > > > > > Dhanus > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- > > > > > Mahalaxmi > > > > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of > Sani, > > > he > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and servant > > > under > > > > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has great > > > > > > > significance > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless (no > > > ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have the > > > aspect > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of > > > Yagnyas > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone > > having > > > > an > > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would have > > > Shiva > > > > > as > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words if > > it > > > > was > > > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some > say > > > that > > > > > > surya > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of > > Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent > > (12th > > > > > from > > > > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would be > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by > > > > > Atmakaraka. > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator > for > > > > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this chart) .. > > > which > > > > > in > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka > in > > > the > > > > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there > the > > > > lord > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) which > > > would > > > > > be > > > > > > > guru > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Dear Rohini: I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self". Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very truth, is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on it once in a while. I think I know what you are looking for now. Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting. It is written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect for his writings. You may find all the information you are looking for here. http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html Is this all what you were looking for? Always Remember: The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take sides while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The right approach is to worship both and realize one through the other. Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other. Warmest Regards. --Sanjay Aggarwal , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Sanjay, > > We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began by my > asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation of > the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to figure > out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply wished > to probe that a bit further since the list was very different from > what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of jyotish > and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara wrote, I > think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still coming to > grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human beings. > While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out the > afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to > corroborate philosophical interpretations and overinterpretations > about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would rather > not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal > territories, where pretty much anything goes. > > None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and > worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing > philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The states > and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond jyotish > and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the divine > levels of human experience. > > There should not be any confusion about the focus of the topic. In > fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they would > see that I had been talking and seeking information about a very > specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making > segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the > documentation/information (the technique or the association list of > planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not > available. > > Rohiniranjan > > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What is > > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in Jyotish? > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > divinity > > > > into > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one > > > > magical > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are confusing > > me ;-). > > > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have pointed > > out? > > > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best. > > > > Best Wishes and Take Care. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and > what > > we > > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the > 12th > > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an indicator > > of > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Yes Rohini Ji. > > > > > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to just > > seeing > > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of witness > > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his > true > > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. > > > > > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in > the > > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it is > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > divinity > > > > into > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on one > > > > magical > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try to > > > > capture > > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what we > > > > preach, > > > > > because: > > > > > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity > > > > > probably does not have gender > > > > > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after > passages, > > > > books > > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized > individuals, > > > not > > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how can > > we > > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, such > > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your > > ishta- > > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or > more > > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with > > those > > > > kind > > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of like > > many > > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > > > > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > > > > sounds > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. > The > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis > > > which > > > > > > would > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > > > framework > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit > > into > > > > > each > > > > > > if > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. > > Even > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And > > > then > > > > we > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population > which > > > is > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and > > still. > > > > The > > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even > > while > > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so > > many > > > > > waves > > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, the > > > > ocean's > > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Surely > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > > similarly > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > > > members > > > > > of > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all > other > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > experience, > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own > Self, > > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The Supreme > > > Truth > > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades > everywhere; > > > > > however > > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no division > > in > > > > Him. > > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as One. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > > > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of the > > > > mantra. > > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a > > > documented > > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some > > > stream > > > > of > > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like mars> > > and > > > so > > > > > > fits > > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of > > Kartikeya > > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic > > parlance > > > > > from > > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore > > brothers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu > > framework'. > > > > > > Surely > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > > similarly > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > > > members > > > > > of > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all > other > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > experience, > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my lineage > > (one > > > > > > before > > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense > bhakti > > > in > > > > > > Shivji > > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least in > > the > > > > > three > > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, > > there > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of > typical > > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal > religious > > > > > symbols > > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably more > > > > tolerant > > > > > > of > > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional worship > > and > > > > > ritual > > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal > > leaning > > > is > > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe > > that > > > > even > > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a > > > > personage/entity/unit > > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind is > to > > > > > brain, > > > > > > in > > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried to > > > force > > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of Kali > > Ma > > > > has > > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep > > > > returning > > > > > > back > > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of > > creation > > > > and > > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of karakamsha > > > > sounds > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. > The > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and rashis > > > which > > > > > > would > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > > > framework > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to fit > > into > > > > > each > > > > > > if > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. > > Even > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). And > > > then > > > > we > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population > which > > > is > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see > > my > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached > the > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, > > > etc.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the > deity > > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance > and > > > > > creation > > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance of > > > each > > > > > > story > > > > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? Why > > is > > > it > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu is > > > > > > headless". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it > > since > > > > it > > > > > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel > > free > > > to > > > > > > > respond > > > > > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see > > my > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached > the > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, > > > etc.) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or > > described > > > > > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated > with > > > the > > > > > > fifth > > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi > > who > > > > used > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or > so > > > he > > > > > > > claimed. > > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not > > know > > > > much > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as > > simply > > > > as > > > > > I > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an > > example) > > > > is > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly > in > > > > these > > > > > > > > groups. > > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice > > > > between > > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important > and > > > > takes > > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is > why > > > > lord > > > > > of > > > > > > > 9th > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. > The > > > > > > > conjunction > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why > also > > a > > > > Lord > > > > > > of > > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not > > reveal > > > > the > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. > The > > > > > > importance > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your > soul > > > > from > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is > > constantly > > > > > > changing > > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 > truly > > > > shows > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 > and > > > > 12th > > > > > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining > devata > > > > which > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > > > > > > surrender "The > > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest > Fruit". > > > And > > > > > that > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called > > simply > > > as > > > > > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of > > the > > > > > Self. > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the > Self. > > To > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. > > > > Anything > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as > > > > a "means" > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are > many, > > it > > > > > does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths > lead > > > to > > > > > Him > > > > > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the > true "japa", > > > the > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > mantra > > > > > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, > > > once > > > > we > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > died > > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing > > > ourSelf > > > > we > > > > > > > shall > > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few > charts. > > > > Where > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for > reference. > > > > Your > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite common > in > > > > > > jyotish, > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I > > > have > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other > > > > > > religions, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. > > The > > > > link > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of > > the > > > > > > classics > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering > correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate > well > > > > with > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > devta > > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to > deities) > > > to > > > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao > > who > > > > > > > recommends > > > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for > > instance, > > > if > > > > > > makar > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then > one > > > > > should > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging > > the > > > > > > effects. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he > had > > > > given > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never > occur > > if > > > > we > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to > in > > > the > > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha > sign > > > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in > > > rashi > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association > of > > Ma > > > > > Durga > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th > (Vyaya) > > > from > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and > > > karma > > > > of > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of > the > > > > planet > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that planet > > > will > > > > be > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; for > > > > example > > > > > > > Dhanus > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; Sukra -- > > > > > > > Mahalaxmi > > > > > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of > > Sani, > > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and > servant > > > > under > > > > > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has > great > > > > > > > > significance > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless > (no > > > > ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have > the > > > > aspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer of > > > > Yagnyas > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So anyone > > > having > > > > > an > > > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would > have > > > > Shiva > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other words > if > > > it > > > > > was > > > > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? Some > > say > > > > that > > > > > > > surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form of > > > Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets represent > > > (12th > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? Would > be > > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied by > > > > > > Atmakaraka. > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the indicator > > for > > > > > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this > chart) .. > > > > which > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the atmakaraka > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present there > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) > which > > > > would > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > guru > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking here as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a list which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although it is nice to see the citation now :-) Jyotish being an application that is highly interpretive and to some extant personal and subjective, I have no problem with shooting a bit of philosophical or pseudophilosophical breeze (borrowed or original), however, jyotish is also very technical and prone to errors as we all witness and experience all the time -- hence my probing to make sure what is involved in this method. Thanks for the interesting exchange. RR , "saggarwal_4" <saggarwal_4> wrote: > Dear Rohini: > > I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self". > Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very truth, > is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on it > once in a while. > > I think I know what you are looking for now. > > Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting. It is > written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect for his > writings. You may find all the information you are looking for here. > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html > > Is this all what you were looking for? > > Always Remember: > > The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take sides > while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest > (asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the > manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The right > approach is to worship both and realize one through the other. > > Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further > blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other. > > Warmest Regards. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Sanjay, > > > > We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began by > my > > asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation of > > the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to > figure > > out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply wished > > to probe that a bit further since the list was very different from > > what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of > jyotish > > and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara wrote, I > > think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still coming > to > > grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human beings. > > While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out the > > afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to > > corroborate philosophical interpretations and overinterpretations > > about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would > rather > > not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal > > territories, where pretty much anything goes. > > > > None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and > > worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing > > philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The states > > and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond > jyotish > > and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the divine > > levels of human experience. > > > > There should not be any confusion about the focus of the topic. In > > fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they would > > see that I had been talking and seeking information about a very > > specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making > > segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the > > documentation/information (the technique or the association list > of > > planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not > > available. > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What is > > > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in Jyotish? > > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it > is > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > > divinity > > > > > into > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on > one > > > > > magical > > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are confusing > > > me ;-). > > > > > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have > pointed > > > out? > > > > > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best. > > > > > > Best Wishes and Take Care. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and > > what > > > we > > > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the > > 12th > > > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an > indicator > > > of > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the general > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > Yes Rohini Ji. > > > > > > > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to just > > > seeing > > > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of > witness > > > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in his > > true > > > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. > > > > > > > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady in > > the > > > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human logic -- > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that it > is > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > > divinity > > > > > into > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on > one > > > > > magical > > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or try > to > > > > > capture > > > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing what > we > > > > > preach, > > > > > > because: > > > > > > > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity > > > > > > probably does not have gender > > > > > > > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after > > passages, > > > > > books > > > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized > > individuals, > > > > not > > > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how > can > > > we > > > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, > such > > > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick your > > > ishta- > > > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or > > more > > > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort with > > > those > > > > > kind > > > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of > like > > > many > > > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of > karakamsha > > > > > sounds > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. > > The > > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and > rashis > > > > which > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > > > > framework > > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to > fit > > > into > > > > > > each > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. > > > Even > > > > if > > > > > > it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). > And > > > > then > > > > > we > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population > > which > > > > is > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and > > > still. > > > > > The > > > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. Even > > > while > > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean so > > > many > > > > > > waves > > > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, > the > > > > > ocean's > > > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Surely > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > > > > members > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all > > other > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > > experience, > > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own > > Self, > > > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The > Supreme > > > > Truth > > > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades > > everywhere; > > > > > > however > > > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no > division > > > in > > > > > Him. > > > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as > One. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of > the > > > > > mantra. > > > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a > > > > documented > > > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on some > > > > stream > > > > > of > > > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like > mars> > > > and > > > > so > > > > > > > fits > > > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of > > > Kartikeya > > > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic > > > parlance > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore > > > brothers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu > > > framework'. > > > > > > > Surely > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly because > > > > members > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all > > other > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > > experience, > > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my > lineage > > > (one > > > > > > > before > > > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense > > bhakti > > > > in > > > > > > > Shivji > > > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at least > in > > > the > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their families, > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of > > typical > > > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal > > religious > > > > > > symbols > > > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably > more > > > > > tolerant > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional > worship > > > and > > > > > > ritual > > > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal > > > leaning > > > > is > > > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I believe > > > that > > > > > even > > > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a > > > > > personage/entity/unit > > > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind > is > > to > > > > > > brain, > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have tried > to > > > > force > > > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of > Kali > > > Ma > > > > > has > > > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I keep > > > > > returning > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of > > > creation > > > > > and > > > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of > karakamsha > > > > > sounds > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even flaws. > > The > > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and > rashis > > > > which > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the hindu > > > > > framework > > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to > fit > > > into > > > > > > each > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka scheme. > > > Even > > > > if > > > > > > it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). > And > > > > then > > > > > we > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population > > which > > > > is > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested > (see > > > my > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached > > the > > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, > rahu=Durga, > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the > > deity > > > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the significance > > and > > > > > > creation > > > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological significance > of > > > > each > > > > > > > story > > > > > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? > Why > > > is > > > > it > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu > is > > > > > > > headless". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with it > > > since > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please feel > > > free > > > > to > > > > > > > > respond > > > > > > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested > (see > > > my > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached > > the > > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, > rahu=Durga, > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or > > > described > > > > > > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > fifth > > > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a > jyotishi > > > who > > > > > used > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, > or > > so > > > > he > > > > > > > > claimed. > > > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not > > > know > > > > > much > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as > > > simply > > > > > as > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an > > > example) > > > > > is > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help > selflessly > > in > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > groups. > > > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a > choice > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important > > and > > > > > takes > > > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is > > why > > > > > lord > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > 9th > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. > > The > > > > > > > > conjunction > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why > > also > > > a > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not > > > reveal > > > > > the > > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. > > The > > > > > > > importance > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your > > soul > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is > > > constantly > > > > > > > changing > > > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 > > truly > > > > > shows > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d- 9 > > and > > > > > 12th > > > > > > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining > > devata > > > > > which > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > > > > > > > surrender "The > > > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest > > Fruit". > > > > And > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called > > > simply > > > > as > > > > > > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity > of > > > the > > > > > > Self. > > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the > > Self. > > > To > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the > Mantra. > > > > > Anything > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as > > > > > a "means" > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are > > many, > > > it > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths > > lead > > > > to > > > > > > Him > > > > > > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the > > true "japa", > > > > the > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > mantra > > > > > > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own > eyes, > > > > once > > > > > we > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > died > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing > > > > ourSelf > > > > > we > > > > > > > > shall > > > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few > > charts. > > > > > Where > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for > > reference. > > > > > Your > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite > common > > in > > > > > > > jyotish, > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. > I > > > > have > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the > other > > > > > > > religions, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of > course. > > > The > > > > > link > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some > of > > > the > > > > > > > classics > > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering > > correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate > > well > > > > > with > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > devta > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to > > deities) > > > > to > > > > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN > Rao > > > who > > > > > > > > recommends > > > > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for > > > instance, > > > > if > > > > > > > makar > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then > > one > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for > gauging > > > the > > > > > > > effects. > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he > > had > > > > > given > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never > > occur > > > if > > > > > we > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha > > sign > > > > > from > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it > in > > > > rashi > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association > > of > > > Ma > > > > > > Durga > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th > > (Vyaya) > > > > from > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength > and > > > > karma > > > > > of > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma of > > the > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that > planet > > > > will > > > > > be > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; > for > > > > > example > > > > > > > > Dhanus > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; > Sukra -- > > > > > > > > > Mahalaxmi > > > > > > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect of > > > Sani, > > > > > he > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and > > servant > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has > > great > > > > > > > > > significance > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is headless > > (no > > > > > ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, have > > the > > > > > aspect > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or performer > of > > > > > Yagnyas > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So > anyone > > > > having > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha would > > have > > > > > Shiva > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other > words > > if > > > > it > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? > Some > > > say > > > > > that > > > > > > > > surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra form > of > > > > Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets > represent > > > > (12th > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? > Would > > be > > > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied > by > > > > > > > Atmakaraka. > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the > indicator > > > for > > > > > > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this > > chart) .. > > > > > which > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the > atmakaraka > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present > there > > > the > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) > > which > > > > > would > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > guru > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Dear Rohini: > Thanks for the interesting exchange. Ditto. Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That was some good positive churning. Take care. Warm Regards. --Sanjay Aggarwal , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking here > as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a list > which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although it is > nice to see the citation now :-) > > Jyotish being an application that is highly interpretive and to some > extant personal and subjective, I have no problem with shooting a > bit of philosophical or pseudophilosophical breeze (borrowed or > original), however, jyotish is also very technical and prone to > errors as we all witness and experience all the time -- hence my > probing to make sure what is involved in this method. > > Thanks for the interesting exchange. > > RR > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Dear Rohini: > > > > I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self". > > Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very > truth, > > is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on it > > once in a while. > > > > I think I know what you are looking for now. > > > > Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting. It is > > written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect for > his > > writings. You may find all the information you are looking for > here. > > > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html > > > > Is this all what you were looking for? > > > > Always Remember: > > > > The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take sides > > while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest > > (asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the > > manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The right > > approach is to worship both and realize one through the other. > > > > Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further > > blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other. > > > > Warmest Regards. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began > by > > my > > > asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation > of > > > the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to > > figure > > > out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply > wished > > > to probe that a bit further since the list was very different > from > > > what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of > > jyotish > > > and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara wrote, > I > > > think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still > coming > > to > > > grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human > beings. > > > While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out the > > > afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to > > > corroborate philosophical interpretations and > overinterpretations > > > about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would > > rather > > > not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal > > > territories, where pretty much anything goes. > > > > > > None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and > > > worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing > > > philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The > states > > > and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond > > jyotish > > > and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the > divine > > > levels of human experience. > > > > > > There should not be any confusion about the focus of the topic. > In > > > fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they > would > > > see that I had been talking and seeking information about a very > > > specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making > > > segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the > > > documentation/information (the technique or the association list > > of > > > planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not > > > available. > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the > general > > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What > is > > > > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in > Jyotish? > > > > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human > logic -- > > > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that > it > > is > > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > > > divinity > > > > > > into > > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on > > one > > > > > > magical > > > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are > confusing > > > > me ;-). > > > > > > > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have > > pointed > > > > out? > > > > > > > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Take Care. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this and > > > what > > > > we > > > > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using the > > > 12th > > > > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an > > indicator > > > > of > > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the > general > > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > Yes Rohini Ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to > just > > > > seeing > > > > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of > > witness > > > > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in > his > > > true > > > > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady > in > > > the > > > > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human > logic -- > > > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that > it > > is > > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > > > divinity > > > > > > into > > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based on > > one > > > > > > magical > > > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or > try > > to > > > > > > capture > > > > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing > what > > we > > > > > > preach, > > > > > > > because: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity > > > > > > > probably does not have gender > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after > > > passages, > > > > > > books > > > > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized > > > individuals, > > > > > not > > > > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then how > > can > > > > we > > > > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such definiteness, > > such > > > > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick > your > > > > ishta- > > > > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be (or > > > more > > > > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort > with > > > > those > > > > > > kind > > > > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of > > like > > > > many > > > > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of > > karakamsha > > > > > > sounds > > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even > flaws. > > > The > > > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and > > rashis > > > > > which > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the > hindu > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to > > fit > > > > into > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka > scheme. > > > > Even > > > > > if > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). > > And > > > > > then > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet and > > > > still. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. > Even > > > > while > > > > > > it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the ocean > so > > > > many > > > > > > > waves > > > > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that happens, > > the > > > > > > ocean's > > > > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Surely > > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly > because > > > > > members > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all > > > other > > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our own > > > Self, > > > > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The > > Supreme > > > > > Truth > > > > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades > > > everywhere; > > > > > > > however > > > > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no > > division > > > > in > > > > > > Him. > > > > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him as > > One. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition of > > the > > > > > > mantra. > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have a > > > > > documented > > > > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on > some > > > > > stream > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like > > mars> > > > > and > > > > > so > > > > > > > > fits > > > > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of > > > > Kartikeya > > > > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in classic > > > > parlance > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore > > > > brothers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu > > > > framework'. > > > > > > > > Surely > > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must be > > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly > because > > > > > members > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit all > > > other > > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my > > lineage > > > > (one > > > > > > > > before > > > > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but intense > > > bhakti > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Shivji > > > > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at > least > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their > families, > > > > there > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of > > > typical > > > > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal > > > religious > > > > > > > symbols > > > > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably > > more > > > > > > tolerant > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional > > worship > > > > and > > > > > > > ritual > > > > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my personal > > > > leaning > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I > believe > > > > that > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a > > > > > > personage/entity/unit > > > > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What mind > > is > > > to > > > > > > > brain, > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have > tried > > to > > > > > force > > > > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form of > > Kali > > > > Ma > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I > keep > > > > > > returning > > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix of > > > > creation > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of > > karakamsha > > > > > > sounds > > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even > flaws. > > > The > > > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and > > rashis > > > > > which > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the > hindu > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having to > > fit > > > > into > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka > scheme. > > > > Even > > > > > if > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the case). > > And > > > > > then > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human population > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested > > (see > > > > my > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you > obtained/reached > > > the > > > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, > > rahu=Durga, > > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and the > > > deity > > > > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the > significance > > > and > > > > > > > creation > > > > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological > significance > > of > > > > > each > > > > > > > > story > > > > > > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord Ganesha? > > Why > > > > is > > > > > it > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint is "Ketu > > is > > > > > > > > headless". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated with > it > > > > since > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please > feel > > > > free > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > respond > > > > > > > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested > > (see > > > > my > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you > obtained/reached > > > the > > > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, > > rahu=Durga, > > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or > > > > described > > > > > > > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > fifth > > > > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a > > jyotishi > > > > who > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, > > or > > > so > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > claimed. > > > > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do > not > > > > know > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on the > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain > as > > > > simply > > > > > > as > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an > > > > example) > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help > > selflessly > > > in > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > > groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a > > choice > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more > important > > > and > > > > > > takes > > > > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That > is > > > why > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > 9th > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge > importance. > > > The > > > > > > > > > conjunction > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why > > > also > > > > a > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does > not > > > > reveal > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th > Vyaya. > > > The > > > > > > > > importance > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of > your > > > soul > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is > > > > constantly > > > > > > > > changing > > > > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d- 9 > > > truly > > > > > > shows > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d- > 9 > > > and > > > > > > 12th > > > > > > > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining > > > devata > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If > we > > > > > > > > surrender "The > > > > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest > > > Fruit". > > > > > And > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called > > > > simply > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the > deity > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > Self. > > > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of the > > > Self. > > > > To > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the > > Mantra. > > > > > > Anything > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken > as > > > > > > a "means" > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God are > > > many, > > > > it > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all > paths > > > lead > > > > > to > > > > > > > Him > > > > > > > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the > > > true "japa", > > > > > the > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > mantra > > > > > > > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own > > eyes, > > > > > once > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > died > > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By > losing > > > > > ourSelf > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > shall > > > > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few > > > charts. > > > > > > Where > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for > > > reference. > > > > > > Your > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite > > common > > > in > > > > > > > > jyotish, > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of > course. > > I > > > > > have > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the > > other > > > > > > > > religions, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of > > course. > > > > The > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > classics > > > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering > > > correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really > correlate > > > well > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > > devta > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to > > > deities) > > > > > to > > > > > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN > > Rao > > > > who > > > > > > > > > recommends > > > > > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for > > > > instance, > > > > > if > > > > > > > > makar > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) > then > > > one > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for > > gauging > > > > the > > > > > > > > effects. > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') > he > > > had > > > > > > given > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never > > > occur > > > > if > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed > to > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the > karakamsha > > > sign > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study > it > > in > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the > association > > > of > > > > Ma > > > > > > > Durga > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th > > > (Vyaya) > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength > > and > > > > > karma > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma > of > > > the > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that > > planet > > > > > will > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from karakamsa ; > > for > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > Dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; > > Sukra -- > > > > > > > > > > > Mahalaxmi > > > > > > > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the aspect > of > > > > Sani, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and > > > servant > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it has > > > great > > > > > > > > > > significance > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is > headless > > > (no > > > > > > ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, > have > > > the > > > > > > aspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or > performer > > of > > > > > > Yagnyas > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So > > anyone > > > > > having > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha > would > > > have > > > > > > Shiva > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other > > words > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? > > Some > > > > say > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra > form > > of > > > > > Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets > > represent > > > > > (12th > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? > > Would > > > be > > > > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign occupied > > by > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka. > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the > > indicator > > > > for > > > > > > > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this > > > chart) .. > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the > > atmakaraka > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present > > there > > > > the > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of sagittarius) > > > which > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > guru > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord > shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Sanjay, I am glad you look at it as positive and invigorating. Unless the unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not have had a lot of mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many astrologers had hung their hats of failed predictions because the nodes were unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we focus on the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious that must awaken us. Rohiniranjan Clarity2020 , "saggarwal_4" <saggarwal_4> wrote: > Dear Rohini: > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange. > > Ditto. > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That was > some good positive churning. > > Take care. > > Warm Regards. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking here > > as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a list > > which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although it > is > > nice to see the citation now :-) > > > > Jyotish being an application that is highly interpretive and to > some > > extant personal and subjective, I have no problem with shooting a > > bit of philosophical or pseudophilosophical breeze (borrowed or > > original), however, jyotish is also very technical and prone to > > errors as we all witness and experience all the time -- hence my > > probing to make sure what is involved in this method. > > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange. > > > > RR > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > I am sorry. I thought you were enjoying dicsussing the "Self". > > > Apparently it seems you were not. The sound of Om is our very > > truth, > > > is our very being. We are made of it. It is good to reflect on > it > > > once in a while. > > > > > > I think I know what you are looking for now. > > > > > > Here is a link of an article that you will find interesting. It > is > > > written by a very respected astrologer. I have great respect for > > his > > > writings. You may find all the information you are looking for > > here. > > > > > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com/lesson2.html > > > > > > Is this all what you were looking for? > > > > > > Always Remember: > > > > > > The Isa Upanishad warns the students of Brahman not to take > sides > > > while approaching Brahman. Those who worship the unmanifest > > > (asambhutim) enter blinding darkness and those who worship the > > > manifest only (sambhutim) enter into greater darkness. The right > > > approach is to worship both and realize one through the other. > > > > > > Pure ignorance is pure blindness. Pure knowledge is further > > > blindnes. The idea is to manifest one through the other. > > > > > > Warmest Regards. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > We were not talking about jyoti or self, etc. I think we began > > by > > > my > > > > asking a simple question to someone about their recommendation > > of > > > > the technique of using the 12th from karakamsha in a chart to > > > figure > > > > out someone's ishta devta. A list was provided and I simply > > wished > > > > to probe that a bit further since the list was very different > > from > > > > what I had seen in available texts. As far as philosophy of > > > jyotish > > > > and interpreting the between the lines of what Parashara > wrote, > > I > > > > think it is all very speculative. Current jyotish is still > > coming > > > to > > > > grips with basic questions about the worldly life of human > > beings. > > > > While it is very attractive to use jyotish into figuring out > the > > > > afterlife of individuals and other highly speculative, hard to > > > > corroborate philosophical interpretations and > > overinterpretations > > > > about non-worldly aspects of the human experience -- I would > > > rather > > > > not let the specific discussion drift into such ethereal > > > > territories, where pretty much anything goes. > > > > > > > > None of the classics in jyotish which is a very practical and > > > > worldly subject, tool etc really go too much into waxing > > > > philosophical, and are very earthy, for a good reason. The > > states > > > > and types of individuals you are discussing about are beyond > > > jyotish > > > > and that is fine. Jyotish is not the be all, end all of the > > divine > > > > levels of human experience. > > > > > > > > There should not be any confusion about the focus of the > topic. > > In > > > > fact if anyone reads over my postings on this subject, they > > would > > > > see that I had been talking and seeking information about a > very > > > > specific item, consistently, avoiding too much drift or making > > > > segues. Anyway, I am now sadly beginning to see that the > > > > documentation/information (the technique or the association > list > > > of > > > > planets and deities as proposed here) do not exist or are not > > > > available. > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the > > general > > > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dont you see the connection between Jyoti and the Self? What > > is > > > > > Parashara trying to tell us? What is the word "Jyoti" in > > Jyotish? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human > > logic -- > > > > > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that > > it > > > is > > > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > > > > divinity > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based > on > > > one > > > > > > > magical > > > > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > > > > > I thought this is what we were discussing. Now you are > > confusing > > > > > me ;-). > > > > > > > > > > Does Ishta Devata and Karakamsa really matter as you have > > > pointed > > > > > out? > > > > > > > > > > If you dont, then I wish you all the best. > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Take Care. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > I am sorry but I fail to see the connection between this > and > > > > what > > > > > we > > > > > > were discussing, namely, primarily the veracity of using > the > > > > 12th > > > > > > from karkamsha in the horoscope of an individual as an > > > indicator > > > > > of > > > > > > ishta devta, and secondarily similar statements in the > > general > > > > > > framework of jyotish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes Rohini Ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is why great beings never give much importance to > > just > > > > > seeing > > > > > > > their true nature. The real attainment is the state of > > > witness > > > > > > > consciousness, in which a person becomes established in > > his > > > > true > > > > > > > nature, in which the seer becomes still in the seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When a person attains this state, when he becomes steady > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > awareness "I am the Truth", he becomes complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Such is the limitation of human description, human > > logic -- > > > > > > > > > > > particularly when we try to capture that in words that > > it > > > is > > > > > > > > difficult even futile to try and distil the concept of > > > > > divinity > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > simple look-up tables of deities, ishta devtas based > on > > > one > > > > > > > magical > > > > > > > > indicator etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even when someone says, "should not categorize Him or > > try > > > to > > > > > > > capture > > > > > > > > Him in a description ....etc." we are not practicing > > what > > > we > > > > > > > preach, > > > > > > > > because: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God is probably not a being or entity > > > > > > > > probably does not have gender > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we cannot describe the Divine in passages after > > > > passages, > > > > > > > books > > > > > > > > after books, some written by truly self-realized > > > > individuals, > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > ordinary people like us with limited abilities, then > how > > > can > > > > > we > > > > > > > > satisfactorily capture the same with such > definiteness, > > > such > > > > > > > > specificity and such rigidity/finiteness as the 'pick > > your > > > > > ishta- > > > > > > > > devta' technique of 12th from atmakaraka touts to be > (or > > > > more > > > > > > > > correctly is touted to be), hence my lack of comfort > > with > > > > > those > > > > > > > kind > > > > > > > > of methods, despite its attractive simplicity. Kind of > > > like > > > > > many > > > > > > > > such statements in jyotish and astrology in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of > > > karakamsha > > > > > > > sounds > > > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even > > flaws. > > > > The > > > > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and > > > rashis > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the > > hindu > > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having > to > > > fit > > > > > into > > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka > > scheme. > > > > > Even > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the > case). > > > And > > > > > > then > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human > population > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Point very well taken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Supreme Shiva remains supremely serene, quiet > and > > > > > still. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > Shakti that vibrates from Him does all the playing. > > Even > > > > > while > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > playing, its stillness is not disturbed. In the > ocean > > so > > > > > many > > > > > > > > waves > > > > > > > > > leap up and down, up and down. Although that > happens, > > > the > > > > > > > ocean's > > > > > > > > > profoundity is not disturbed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Surely > > > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must > be > > > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly > > because > > > > > > members > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit > all > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My message is very simple: Let us Meditate on our > own > > > > Self, > > > > > > > > > understand our own Self, attain our own Self. The > > > Supreme > > > > > > Truth > > > > > > > > > dwells within US. In infinite forms He pervades > > > > everywhere; > > > > > > > > however > > > > > > > > > He is One. However we categorize Him, there is no > > > division > > > > > in > > > > > > > Him. > > > > > > > > > We should stop categorizing Him and should see Him > as > > > One. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever there is, it is all Him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To lose oneSelf in the Self is the true repetition > of > > > the > > > > > > > mantra. > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe silence is the true "japa". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes and Warmest Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was hoping that the association list would have > a > > > > > > documented > > > > > > > > > > footing. Nothing wrong, per se, if it is based on > > some > > > > > > stream > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > consciousness 'logic'. Such as ketu is also <like > > > mars> > > > > > and > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > fits > > > > > > > > > > the bill for Ganeshji because he is the brother of > > > > > Kartikeya > > > > > > > > > > (Subrahmaniam ji) whose planetary symbol in > classic > > > > > parlance > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > what I recall is mars. Ketu and mars are therefore > > > > > brothers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem rises when we move out of the 'hindu > > > > > framework'. > > > > > > > > > Surely > > > > > > > > > > the other major religions and their symbols must > be > > > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > > > represented, by simple logic (!), particularly > > because > > > > > > members > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > these other religions seem to respond to and fit > all > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > frameworks of jyotish (in terms of similarity of > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > dashas, > > > > > > > > > > combinations, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my case, for instance, two individuals in my > > > lineage > > > > > (one > > > > > > > > > before > > > > > > > > > > and one after) have had a short-lasting but > intense > > > > bhakti > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Shivji > > > > > > > > > > during their young days. Generally speaking, at > > least > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > > or four generations surrounding me and their > > families, > > > > > there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > significantly high prevalence of total absence of > > > > typical > > > > > > > > > > ritualistic worship or much faith in the literal > > > > religious > > > > > > > > symbols > > > > > > > > > > that surround hinduism. I am, personally, probably > > > more > > > > > > > tolerant > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > other people's beliefs and need for traditional > > > worship > > > > > and > > > > > > > > ritual > > > > > > > > > > symbols and ishta-devi/devtas, etc, but my > personal > > > > > leaning > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > towards a nirakar God, and as I have stated, I > > believe > > > > > that > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > nirakar God as is sometimes depicted as a > > > > > > > personage/entity/unit > > > > > > > > > > outside us and our little lives has flaws. What > mind > > > is > > > > to > > > > > > > > brain, > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > a somewhat similar way God is to the creation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During my contact with astrology, etc -- I have > > tried > > > to > > > > > > force > > > > > > > > > > myself into worshipping divine forms -- the form > of > > > Kali > > > > > Ma > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > drawn me, so has Vishnu, and Hanuman and Shiv. I > > keep > > > > > > > returning > > > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > > > to this image of God which represents the matrix > of > > > > > creation > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > creator -- but one and not many forms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the concept of ishta devta from 12th of > > > karakamsha > > > > > > > sounds > > > > > > > > > > intriguing -- obviously it has limits and even > > flaws. > > > > The > > > > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > > > > limitation being the small number of planets and > > > rashis > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > only make many gods and goddesses even from the > > hindu > > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > > (330 > > > > > > > > > > million gods and goddesses and counting!) having > to > > > fit > > > > > into > > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > the 21 planets and rashis using the atmakaraka > > scheme. > > > > > Even > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > well documented (which it seems not to be the > case). > > > And > > > > > > then > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > think of the remaining 4/5th of the human > population > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > neither hindu nor atheistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically > interested > > > (see > > > > > my > > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you > > obtained/reached > > > > the > > > > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, > > > rahu=Durga, > > > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ask too much :-). Just kidding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are standard shlokas for each planet and > the > > > > deity > > > > > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > > > > > with it. For this you have to read the > > significance > > > > and > > > > > > > > creation > > > > > > > > > > > behind each Deity and the mythological > > significance > > > of > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > story > > > > > > > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think Ketu is governed by Lord > Ganesha? > > > Why > > > > > is > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > that only Ganesh Ji can control Ketu? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try and think logically :-). A clear hint > is "Ketu > > > is > > > > > > > > > headless". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can Ketu and the word "aspect" be associated > with > > it > > > > > since > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > is "headless"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait for your reply. Anyone else, please > > feel > > > > > free > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > respond > > > > > > > > > > > to these questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, when you can, I am specifically > interested > > > (see > > > > > my > > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > > > below your message) as to how you > > obtained/reached > > > > the > > > > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > > > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, > > > rahu=Durga, > > > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > different from what I have seen in classics or > > > > > described > > > > > > > > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been > associated > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > fifth > > > > > > > > > > > > house by some. Actually there used to be a > > > jyotishi > > > > > who > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > > > very correctly based on analysis of fifth > house, > > > or > > > > so > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > claimed. > > > > > > > > > > > > He did not like to share his techniques, so do > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your specific response on > the > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > > > concordance to deities! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain > > as > > > > > simply > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > based on my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is Karma > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as > an > > > > > example) > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma. An example of karma is to help > > > selflessly > > > > in > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > > > groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a > > > choice > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more > > important > > > > and > > > > > > > takes > > > > > > > > > > > > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. > That > > is > > > > why > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > 9th > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge > > importance. > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > conjunction > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is > why > > > > also > > > > > a > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > > > > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does > > not > > > > > reveal > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > > > nature of the Self and gives problems in > ones > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th > > Vyaya. > > > > The > > > > > > > > > importance > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th becomes very significant from each > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of > > your > > > > soul > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is > > > > > constantly > > > > > > > > > changing > > > > > > > > > > > > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d- > 9 > > > > truly > > > > > > > shows > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > > > > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in > d- > > 9 > > > > and > > > > > > > 12th > > > > > > > > > > > (vyaya) > > > > > > > > > > > > > from it gains huge importance in determining > > > > devata > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If > > we > > > > > > > > > surrender "The > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest > > > > Fruit". > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self > called > > > > > simply > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > Moksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the > > deity > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Self. > > > > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > > > > > is no greater worship than the worship of > the > > > > Self. > > > > > To > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > > > > oneSelf > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self is the true repetition of the > > > Mantra. > > > > > > > Anything > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken > > as > > > > > > > a "means" > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > the final "destination". The paths to God > are > > > > many, > > > > > it > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > matter which path we take. In the end all > > paths > > > > lead > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Him > > > > > > > > > > > Only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the > > > > true "japa", > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > > mantra > > > > > > > > > > > > > repetition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own > > > eyes, > > > > > > once > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > died > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the Self, we will never die again. By > > losing > > > > > > ourSelf > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > shall > > > > > > > > > > > > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few > > > > charts. > > > > > > > Where > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for > > > > reference. > > > > > > > Your > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite different from others (as is quite > > > common > > > > in > > > > > > > > > jyotish, > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of > > course. > > > I > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > > > > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the > > > other > > > > > > > > > religions, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of > > > course. > > > > > The > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in > some > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > classics > > > > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering > > > > correctly). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really > > correlate > > > > well > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > > > devta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to > > > > deities) > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by > KN > > > Rao > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > recommends > > > > > > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for > > > > > instance, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > makar > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) > > then > > > > one > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for > > > gauging > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > effects. > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') > > he > > > > had > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can > never > > > > occur > > > > > if > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as > opposed > > to > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the > > karakamsha > > > > sign > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study > > it > > > in > > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the > > association > > > > of > > > > > Ma > > > > > > > > Durga > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th > > > > (Vyaya) > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any planets in it; Then test the > strength > > > and > > > > > > karma > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect to Navamsa Lagna. The Karma > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stronger will prevail. The Lord of that > > > planet > > > > > > will > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indicator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for IstaDevata in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For empty houses in 12th from > karakamsa ; > > > for > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meena; Shiva is the Devata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Sani- Narayana Ji; Ketu-Ganesh Ji; > > > Sukra -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahalaxmi > > > > > > > > > > > Ji ; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya -- Agni Deva ; Rahu -- Durga Devi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Karakamsa with Ketu has the > aspect > > of > > > > > Sani, > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapaswi or recluse or be a dependent and > > > > servant > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > > > somebody. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa has Ketu in it; it > has > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > > significance > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > final liberation. Remember, Ketu is > > headless > > > > (no > > > > > > > ego). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Atmakaraka and Ketu in the Navamsa, > > have > > > > the > > > > > > > aspect > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > Sukra, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person will become a Deekshita or > > performer > > > of > > > > > > > Yagnyas > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacrifices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted a similar question. So > > > anyone > > > > > > having > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 12th from atmakaraka in navamsha > > would > > > > have > > > > > > > Shiva > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > ishta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devta? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it related to jupiter (in other > > > words > > > > if > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dhanu, ishta would still be Shiva)? > > > Some > > > > > say > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > surya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents Shiva, at least the Rudra > > form > > > of > > > > > > Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do the other signs or planets > > > represent > > > > > > (12th > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > AK)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deities? How about non-hindu deities? > > > Would > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > probe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (P.S. Raghu ji, Rohiniranjan is male) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raghu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa is the navamsa sign > occupied > > > by > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka. > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th from karakamsa becomes the > > > indicator > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > IstaDevata > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus is empty in navamsa in this > > > > chart) .. > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out to be Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > , "Raghu" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <raghu_tillu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miss Rohini, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the 12th house from the > > > atmakaraka > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa, if no planet is present > > > there > > > > > the > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakamsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as in your case lord of > sagittarius) > > > > which > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > guru > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose ista devata would be lord > > shiva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that answeres your query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Rohiniranjan, OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by "unless the unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to the Sagara Madhan of the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to discovering the truth only after extensive churn? I confess I did not understand the rest of that sentence or the next one either :-) Anyway, to respond to your original question, that list is from the Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by Parasara, where each planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of course, this is Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science, and the manuals were written by Hindus. That said, the principles can be extended to any religion or philosophy, as this list's moderator can attest to. Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity, so I don't know if this is a big issue. You mentioned you would like to understand the "technique" behind this. The technique is to correlate the qualities attributed to the planet, with the qualities attributed to the diety. For example, Mars is the planet of war, and denotes courage, protection of the weak (on the positive side) or violence (the negative), and the Istha Devatha is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha (Parasara). Is this the sort of explanation you are looking for? Venkatarama , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Sanjay, > > I am glad you look at it as positive and invigorating. Unless the > unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not have had a lot of > mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many astrologers had hung > their hats of failed predictions because the nodes were > unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we focus on > the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious that must awaken us. > > Rohiniranjan > Clarity2020 > > > , "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange. > > > > Ditto. > > > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That > was > > some good positive churning. > > > > Take care. > > > > Warm Regards. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking > here > > > as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a > list > > > which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although > it > > is > > > nice to see the citation now :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Mr, Sastry, I generally like to take mythology as metaphorically captured wisdom and not literal historical accounts as some believers do. Simply because of the means of recording and documenting of the mythology and the time and distance from any event that might have occurred eons ago. When exploring and examining a technique that refers to different lists such as you have indicated (Jaimini vs Parashara and followers -- and I would love to check that and examine it more, if you can provide me more specific reference within Jaimini's text, please). Parashara is more inclusive and describes the so called Jaimini system so, as a side-comment, I do not see the Parashari system as being exclusive of Jaimini as seems to be what some think these days. I am always wary of techniques that are too simple, single-factor based like the 12th from karakamsha = ishtadevta, because it is not a simple thing how one gets to or needs one ishta devta -- particularly when it is such an incomplete list even for hindus, let alone other equally important and prevalent religions (in numbers and impact, though obviously not on the jyotish population which is a small sliver of humanity). Hence, illustrations and examples would be helpful. I realize that that means a lot of work. I had naively hoped, some twenty years ago that with internet and online forums coming alive, people will come together and pool resources and examine the aphorisms of jyotish/astrology but I had underestimated human ego and territoriality, even when the parched farmland does not grow a crop that can sustain life. I am interested in knowing in this specific and other instances why there are such differences in scriptures of comparable veneration. Not everything is due to the temporal apabhransha as outlined in my paper on "astrotreasures that were lost in time". And, I am intrigued by the nearly total absence of illustrations and examples in all jyotish texts (other than Satya). Most astrologers who actually look at charts on regular basis for free or profit, run into situations where one has to do cold readings and so one needs to figure out which techniques work. Since there are not too many explorations in that regard, one has to do much of the work themselves. Forums such as this can help by pooling the experience and resource of people. RR , "venkatarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > Rohiniranjan, > > OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by "unless the > unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to the Sagara Madhan of > the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to discovering the truth > only after extensive churn? I confess I did not understand the rest > of that sentence or the next one either :-) > > Anyway, to respond to your original question, that list is from the > Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by Parasara, where each > planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of course, this is > Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science, and the manuals > were written by Hindus. That said, the principles can be extended to > any religion or philosophy, as this list's moderator can attest to. > Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity, so I don't know if > this is a big issue. > > You mentioned you would like to understand the "technique" behind > this. The technique is to correlate the qualities attributed to the > planet, with the qualities attributed to the diety. For example, Mars > is the planet of war, and denotes courage, protection of the weak (on > the positive side) or violence (the negative), and the Istha Devatha > is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha (Parasara). Is this > the sort of explanation you are looking for? > > Venkatarama > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Sanjay, > > > > I am glad you look at it as positive and invigorating. Unless the > > unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not have had a lot of > > mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many astrologers had hung > > their hats of failed predictions because the nodes were > > unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we focus on > > the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious that must awaken us. > > > > Rohiniranjan > > Clarity2020 > > > > > > , "saggarwal_4" > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange. > > > > > > Ditto. > > > > > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That > > was > > > some good positive churning. > > > > > > Take care. > > > > > > Warm Regards. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I have been asking > > here > > > > as a questioning towards the technique. It also just gives a > > list > > > > which I am assuming you presented a few messages ago. Although > > it > > > is > > > > nice to see the citation now :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Hello, I believe the 5th house is the house that indicates the Purva punya we carry from different lives ... I think 5th house is important to judge how far the efforts that we put into anything will bear fruits .. --- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: > This is fine and makes sense obviously. Thanks! > > But, when you can, I am specifically interested (see > my quoted email > below your message) as to how you obtained/reached > the planetary > symbolism of the deities, jupiter=Shiva, rahu=Durga, > etc.) which is > different from what I have seen in classics or > described elsewhere. > > Also mantrasiddhi and ishta have been associated > with the fifth > house by some. Actually there used to be a jyotishi > who used to tell > very correctly based on analysis of fifth house, or > so he claimed. > He did not like to share his techniques, so do not > know much more > details. > > Looking forward to your specific response on the > planetary > concordance to deities! > > RR > > > , > "saggarwal_4" > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > Some more thoughts...I have tried to explain as > simply as I can > > based on my understanding. > > > > 9th is bhagya/dharma -- predetermined > > 10th is Karma > > 11th is karmon ka phal(result or Karma Phala) > > > > Our duties to our family (mother/father as an > example) is our > > dharma. An example of karma is to help selflessly > in these groups. > > But can we shirk away from Dharma? Given a choice > between Dharma > > and Karma, it is Dharma which is more important > and takes > > precedence. Then we continue with Karma. That is > why lord of 9th > and > > lord of 10th in any chart gains huge importance. > The conjunction > of > > Dharma with Karma gives Raja Yoga. That is why > also a Lord of 10 > > without a trinal aspect or conjunction does not > reveal the true > > nature of the Self and gives problems in ones > life. > > > > If you surrender the "Phal" you get 12th Vyaya. > The importance of > > 12th becomes very significant from each house. > > > > Similarly Atmakaraka is the core nature of your > soul from previous > > cycles. This characteristic of our soul is > constantly changing > > through our karmic deeds in this life. > > > > Rasi is the Tree and Navamsa is Fruit. So d-9 > truly shows the > karmic > > nature of your planet. The position of Ak in d-9 > and 12th (vyaya) > > from it gains huge importance in determining > devata which will > > assist in reaching towards that end Goal. If we > surrender "The > > Fruit" of our actions, we get the "Greatest > Fruit". And that is > the > > bliss and the eternal light of the Self called > simply as Moksha. > > > > Again, there is no greater deity than the deity of > the Self. There > > is no greater worship than the worship of the > Self. To lose > oneSelf > > in the Self is the true repetition of the Mantra. > Anything or any > > devata which assists towards "THAT" is taken as a > "means" and not > as > > the final "destination". The paths to God are > many, it does not > > matter which path we take. In the end all paths > lead to Him Only. > > > > For the mind to observe Silence is the true > "japa", the true > mantra > > repetition. > > > > Once we have seen our own death with our own eyes, > once we have > died > > in the Self, we will never die again. By losing > ourSelf we shall > > find ourSelf; by dying we shall Live. > > > > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > Om Tat Sat. > > > > Best Wishes. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > jyotish_tat_sat > > > > > > > > > > > > , > "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Thank you. I will see if it works in a few > charts. Where is the > > list > > > coming from (source?) if I may ask, for > reference. Your list is > > > quite different from others (as is quite common > in jyotish, of > > > course :-) > > > > > > your list is very 'hindu' oriented, of course. I > have seen > others > > > refer to rahu as a depicter of some of the other > religions, and > > > venus for christ, etc. All anecdotal of course. > The link between > > > Shiva and sun however has been shown in some of > the classics (I > > > think Satya's work if I am remembering > correctly). > > > > > > We are working with two variables here: > > > 1) does 12th from karakamsha really correlate > well with ishta > devta > > > 2) which list of correlations (planets to > deities) to follow > > > > > > There is also the variation thrown in by KN Rao > who recommends > > using > > > the karakamsha in the rashi chart. So for > instance, if makar is > > the > > > karakamsha (atmakarka in makara navamsha) then > one should look > at > > > the situation of dhanu in the rashi for gauging > the effects. I > > > recall long ago on his list (Ben Collins') he > had given an > example > > > of a couple of jaimini yogas that can never > occur if we use the > > > karakamsha in the navamsha chart as opposed to > in the rashi > chart > > > (to avoid confusion, determine the karakamsha > sign from the > > > placement of AK in navamsha but then study it in > rashi chart for > > > gauging effects) > > > > > > Very interesting! Particularly the association > of Ma Durga with > > rahu. > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , > "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ji: > > > > > > > > Guru is the indicator of Shiva. If 12th > (Vyaya) from karakamsa > > has > > > > any planets in it; Then test the strength and > karma of those > > > planets > === message truncated === SBC - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo./sbc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Hello, Just sharing my view point .. I can see the probable basis of assigning a ista devata based on horoscope is based on the hindu belief that in our course of evolution irrespective of the ista devata we pick, we have to walk our paths which keep narrowing until only one road is left and that is to the aparabrahman ... So is the case with something like say dasa maha vidya .... Kali forms the last lap “to be reached” and the first lap is represented by Kamala for the “Just beginning” ... in between there are 8 other godesses who represent awareness brought about in "HUMAN" life by loss, power, etc .. It is understood that Kali however stands at the top of the pyramid representing the eternal night or the nirguna brahman … The point is where we reach irrespective of the godess we catch hold to begin with of is the same .. Kamala when started out with is supposed to guide us towards kali eventually and kali herself is supposed to throw us into the formless Brahman .. Now, I believe if a horoscope is indicative that your ista devata is Kali, this is exactly what it may stand for … that is to say that your final destination before you can fathom the nirguna is Kali, never mind if you start off with Kamala or Matangi or Durga etc … So, maybe a Maha vidya upasak who starts off with his favourite diety say, Matangi (like poet Kalidasa .. incidentally Matangi is supposed to bestow poetic talents J) will attain the awareness that Matangi has to bestow on a devotee and once this is realized he will move up the ladder as matangi leads him to Lalitha or kali ! Now, what about someone who wants his first taste of divine romance with Kali herself? Say someone like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? He was so obsessed with the image of kali that he was not able to go beyond her … and godess kali sends a message in a dream to totapuri and asks him to help Ramakrishna get rid of this image and go beyond !! … So, figuratively even though there are thousands of goddesses there are fixed destinations we should reach to before discarding the destinations themselves to reach the apara Brahman … I suppose these few final destinations that we talk of usually are Vishnu and co ... Having said this … I don’t believe it’s sensible to to ista devata based on horoscopes … just like we don’t to the woman/man we love even though they have a reflection in our horoscopes … in both the areas it’s simply best to follow the hearts … Rohini ji, you echo a lot of my feelings on arm chair philosophy … but there are a few incidents in my life that baffle my own beliefs .. so for now I simply stand in “temporary suspension for selective belief” as I go forward .. this might be my biggest hinderance as well … however I am sure I will be on the path someday … --- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: > Mr, Sastry, > > I generally like to take mythology as metaphorically > captured wisdom > and not literal historical accounts as some > believers do. Simply > because of the means of recording and documenting of > the mythology > and the time and distance from any event that might > have occurred > eons ago. > > When exploring and examining a technique that refers > to different > lists such as you have indicated (Jaimini vs > Parashara and > followers -- and I would love to check that and > examine it more, if > you can provide me more specific reference within > Jaimini's text, > please). Parashara is more inclusive and describes > the so called > Jaimini system so, as a side-comment, I do not see > the Parashari > system as being exclusive of Jaimini as seems to be > what some think > these days. > > I am always wary of techniques that are too simple, > single-factor > based like the 12th from karakamsha = ishtadevta, > because it is not > a simple thing how one gets to or needs one ishta > devta -- > particularly when it is such an incomplete list even > for hindus, let > alone other equally important and prevalent > religions (in numbers > and impact, though obviously not on the jyotish > population which is > a small sliver of humanity). Hence, illustrations > and examples would > be helpful. > > I realize that that means a lot of work. I had > naively hoped, some > twenty years ago that with internet and online > forums coming alive, > people will come together and pool resources and > examine the > aphorisms of jyotish/astrology but I had > underestimated human ego > and territoriality, even when the parched farmland > does not grow a > crop that can sustain life. > > I am interested in knowing in this specific and > other instances why > there are such differences in scriptures of > comparable veneration. > Not everything is due to the temporal apabhransha as > outlined in my > paper on "astrotreasures that were lost in time". > And, I am > intrigued by the nearly total absence of > illustrations and examples > in all jyotish texts (other than Satya). > > Most astrologers who actually look at charts on > regular basis for > free or profit, run into situations where one has to > do cold > readings and so one needs to figure out which > techniques work. Since > there are not too many explorations in that regard, > one has to do > much of the work themselves. Forums such as this can > help by pooling > the experience and resource of people. > > RR > > > > , > "venkatarama_sastry" > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > Rohiniranjan, > > > > OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by > "unless the > > unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to > the Sagara Madhan > of > > the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to > discovering the > truth > > only after extensive churn? I confess I did not > understand the > rest > > of that sentence or the next one either :-) > > > > Anyway, to respond to your original question, that > list is from > the > > Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by > Parasara, where each > > planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of > course, this is > > Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science, > and the manuals > > were written by Hindus. That said, the principles > can be extended > to > > any religion or philosophy, as this list's > moderator can attest > to. > > Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity, > so I don't know > if > > this is a big issue. > > > > You mentioned you would like to understand the > "technique" behind > > this. The technique is to correlate the qualities > attributed to > the > > planet, with the qualities attributed to the > diety. For example, > Mars > > is the planet of war, and denotes courage, > protection of the weak > (on > > the positive side) or violence (the negative), and > the Istha > Devatha > > is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha > (Parasara). Is > this > > the sort of explanation you are looking for? > > > > Venkatarama > > > > , > "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > I am glad you look at it as positive and > invigorating. Unless > the > > > unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not > have had a lot of > > > mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many > astrologers had > hung > > > their hats of failed predictions because the > nodes were > > > unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we > focus on > > > the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious > that must awaken > us. > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > Clarity2020 > > > > > > > > > , > "saggarwal_4" > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange. > > > > > > > > Ditto. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly > enjoyed it. > That > > > was > > > > some good positive churning. > > > > > > > > Take care. > > > > > > > > Warm Regards. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > , > "rohiniranjan" > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I > have been > asking > > > here > > > > > as a questioning towards the technique. It > also just gives a > > > list > === message truncated === SBC - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo./sbc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Very thought provoking! Thanks!! Incidentally, I went on Mr. Sastry's advice to Jaimini Sutra and in Rath's = translation, on page 48, the JAIMINI list includes Sun as indicative of Shiva and Jupiter as Samba Shiva. Two spots taken up by Baba = Onkarnath! Good to see it is not just Jupiter as some have tried to indicate. RR , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv= > wrote: > > Hello, > > Just sharing my view point .. > > I can see the probable basis of assigning a ista > devata based on horoscope is based on the hindu belief > that in our course of evolution irrespective of the > ista devata we pick, we have to walk our paths which > keep narrowing until only one road is left and that is > to the aparabrahman ... > > So is the case with something like say dasa maha vidya > ... Kali forms the last lap "to be reached" and the > first lap is represented by Kamala for the "Just > beginning" ... in between there are 8 other godesses > who represent awareness brought about in "HUMAN" life > by loss, power, etc .. It is understood that Kali > however stands at the top of the pyramid representing > the eternal night or the nirguna brahman … > > The point is where we reach irrespective of the godess > we catch hold to begin with of is the same .. Kamala > when started out with is supposed to guide us towards > kali eventually and kali herself is supposed to throw > us into the formless Brahman .. > > Now, I believe if a horoscope is indicative that your > ista devata is Kali, this is exactly what it may stand > for … that is to say that your final destination > before you can fathom the nirguna is Kali, never mind > if you start off with Kamala or Matangi or Durga etc … > > So, maybe a Maha vidya upasak who starts off with his > favourite diety say, Matangi (like poet Kalidasa .. > incidentally Matangi is supposed to bestow poetic > talents J) will attain the awareness that Matangi has > to bestow on a devotee and once this is realized he > will move up the ladder as matangi leads him to > Lalitha or kali ! > > Now, what about someone who wants his first taste of > divine romance with Kali herself? Say someone like > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? He was so obsessed with the > image of kali that he was not able to go beyond her … > and godess kali sends a message in a dream to totapuri > and asks him to help Ramakrishna get rid of this image > and go beyond !! … > > So, figuratively even though there are thousands of > goddesses there are fixed destinations we should reach > to before discarding the destinations themselves to > reach the apara Brahman … I suppose these few final > destinations that we talk of usually are Vishnu and co > .. > > Having said this … I don't believe it's sensible to > to ista devata based on horoscopes … just > like we don't to the woman/man we love even > though they have a reflection in our horoscopes … in > both the areas it's simply best to follow the hearts … > > > Rohini ji, you echo a lot of my feelings on arm chair > philosophy … but there are a few incidents in my life > that baffle my own beliefs .. so for now I simply > stand in "temporary suspension for selective belief" > as I go forward .. this might be my biggest hinderance > as well … however I am sure I will be on the path > someday … > > > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > Mr, Sastry, > > > > I generally like to take mythology as metaphorically > > captured wisdom > > and not literal historical accounts as some > > believers do. Simply > > because of the means of recording and documenting of > > the mythology > > and the time and distance from any event that might > > have occurred > > eons ago. > > > > When exploring and examining a technique that refers > > to different > > lists such as you have indicated (Jaimini vs > > Parashara and > > followers -- and I would love to check that and > > examine it more, if > > you can provide me more specific reference within > > Jaimini's text, > > please). Parashara is more inclusive and describes > > the so called > > Jaimini system so, as a side-comment, I do not see > > the Parashari > > system as being exclusive of Jaimini as seems to be > > what some think > > these days. > > > > I am always wary of techniques that are too simple, > > single-factor > > based like the 12th from karakamsha = ishtadevta, > > because it is not > > a simple thing how one gets to or needs one ishta > > devta -- > > particularly when it is such an incomplete list even > > for hindus, let > > alone other equally important and prevalent > > religions (in numbers > > and impact, though obviously not on the jyotish > > population which is > > a small sliver of humanity). Hence, illustrations > > and examples would > > be helpful. > > > > I realize that that means a lot of work. I had > > naively hoped, some > > twenty years ago that with internet and online > > forums coming alive, > > people will come together and pool resources and > > examine the > > aphorisms of jyotish/astrology but I had > > underestimated human ego > > and territoriality, even when the parched farmland > > does not grow a > > crop that can sustain life. > > > > I am interested in knowing in this specific and > > other instances why > > there are such differences in scriptures of > > comparable veneration. > > Not everything is due to the temporal apabhransha as > > outlined in my > > paper on "astrotreasures that were lost in time". > > And, I am > > intrigued by the nearly total absence of > > illustrations and examples > > in all jyotish texts (other than Satya). > > > > Most astrologers who actually look at charts on > > regular basis for > > free or profit, run into situations where one has to > > do cold > > readings and so one needs to figure out which > > techniques work. Since > > there are not too many explorations in that regard, > > one has to do > > much of the work themselves. Forums such as this can > > help by pooling > > the experience and resource of people. > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , > > "venkatarama_sastry" > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > > Rohiniranjan, > > > > > > OK, now I'm intruiged :-). What do you mean by > > "unless the > > > unfathomable ocean ...."? Is that a reference to > > the Sagara Madhan > > of > > > the Kurmaavatar, or a metaphorical reference to > > discovering the > > truth > > > only after extensive churn? I confess I did not > > understand the > > rest > > > of that sentence or the next one either :-) > > > > > > Anyway, to respond to your original question, that > > list is from > > the > > > Jaimini Sutras. Yes, there is another list by > > Parasara, where each > > > planet is related to an avatar of Vishnu. Yes, of > > course, this is > > > Hindu-centric, since Jyotish was a Vedic science, > > and the manuals > > > were written by Hindus. That said, the principles > > can be extended > > to > > > any religion or philosophy, as this list's > > moderator can attest > > to. > > > Of course, ultimately it is all the same Divinity, > > so I don't know > > if > > > this is a big issue. > > > > > > You mentioned you would like to understand the > > "technique" behind > > > this. The technique is to correlate the qualities > > attributed to > > the > > > planet, with the qualities attributed to the > > diety. For example, > > Mars > > > is the planet of war, and denotes courage, > > protection of the weak > > (on > > > the positive side) or violence (the negative), and > > the Istha > > Devatha > > > is Lord Subrahmanya (Jaimini) and Lord Narasimha > > (Parasara). Is > > this > > > the sort of explanation you are looking for? > > > > > > Venkatarama > > > > > > , > > "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > > > > I am glad you look at it as positive and > > invigorating. Unless > > the > > > > unfathomable ocean was churned, we would not > > have had a lot of > > > > mythology nor the poor rahu ketu on whom many > > astrologers had > > hung > > > > their hats of failed predictions because the > > nodes were > > > > unfathomable, electic, sudden and so on. When we > > focus on > > > > the 'obvious' in jyotish, it is the inobvious > > that must awaken > > us. > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > Clarity2020 > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > "saggarwal_4" > > > > <saggarwal_4> wrote: > > > > > Dear Rohini: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the interesting exchange. > > > > > > > > > > Ditto. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the exchanges as well. I thoroughly > > enjoyed it. > > That > > > > was > > > > > some good positive churning. > > > > > > > > > > Take care. > > > > > > > > > > Warm Regards. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > > > > > , > > "rohiniranjan" > > > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately no, it does not tell me what I > > have been > > asking > > > > here > > > > > > as a questioning towards the technique. It > > also just gives a > > > > list > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > SBC - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo./sbc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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