Fate of a person can be changed....MARK,Rohiniji and ALL

[Guest guest]

First we would have to have an absolute definition for sin!

Sometimes what shows up as a sin and crime in a narrow one lifetime

view looks differently when the full picture can be viewed. However,

for most of us that takes us into the realm of speculations and

discussion becomes fruitless. Just as it is not possible to discuss

if we begin with the faith that everything is predetermined.

 

If everything is predetermined, then we are all puppets and there

can be no personal responsibility, no sin, no crime. The

newage/hippy experiement based on that ideology unfortunately did

not work too long, once the music stopped and the smoke cleared!

 

 

, Shripal <askvbnet>

wrote:

> Hi MARK,Rohiniji and ALL,

> Can we think a little different way,as Lord has

> said

> "whatever is going to happen is going to Happen ,No

> one in this universe can change that,not even lord

> himself"

> What I understand from this statement is that,

>

> World is like a movie,God has made it,every thing and

> each and every character is decided,Not only I am

> talking about yugas,But of all the yugas,From a time

> of making of this world to end of this world or movie.

> Karmas are terms that we use,Nothing such a sort

> exists.Every thing is a way it is ,and it has been

> decided.

>

> But please let me know from you all,who is a first

> person who did a sin,had a birth or died.

>

> That's what i am trying to say,Like movies you have to

> start with something and that goes on,there is no

> start point nor even ending.So how karmas,prarapdh or

> good deeds come in to an action.When this movies will

> over.

>

> Agian a new movies will be created by him,again

> various

> character will be there,again I will be writing a same

> mail.

>

> There is no end to this,It is made the way it has to

> be.

>

> --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

>

> I have come across such individuals, but not many.

> And,

> interpretations vary from one person to another, even

> when

> individuals are judging the same person (and of

> course, it is always

> the other person who is sadly mistaken in this

> reality!;-)

>

> Anyway, if we look deep enough, there is always a

> shred of

> selfishness there. Not that it is by itself bad. The

> point I was

> making was that it does not have to be a pure intent

> or consistently

> pure intent or even an intent that is universally

> perceived as pure.

> Action is what matters. Often, given our narrow,

> amnesic

> perspective, we are poor judges of intent anyway. If

> we engage in

> action, soul-statistics takes care of itself.

> What you all think about this?

>

>

>

>

>

___________________

___

> India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/

[Guest guest]

I believe in different contexts both are vaild ..

 

We should look at things with detachment maybe like

watching a movie (where emotions rise and fall but

dont shake ur ethos .. well at lesat in most cases) ..

 

at the same time action cannot justify itself by mere

supposition that nothing is in our hands !!

 

I dont to "what happens has to happen"

unless its a vipareet karma ... in all other cases we

have our own say in what has to happen I guess ...

 

Again I feel this is a difference between reality and

percieved reality ... all that happens around is

reality and surely not a movie .. however how we

percieve it is the movie we to !!

 

I believe god simply creates the situations that we

muse undergo to learn reality from the point of view

of our reality ... he however in most cases leaves the

outcome to our own actions !!

 

 

--- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote:

> First we would have to have an absolute definition

> for sin!

> Sometimes what shows up as a sin and crime in a

> narrow one lifetime

> view looks differently when the full picture can be

> viewed. However,

> for most of us that takes us into the realm of

> speculations and

> discussion becomes fruitless. Just as it is not

> possible to discuss

> if we begin with the faith that everything is

> predetermined.

>

> If everything is predetermined, then we are all

> puppets and there

> can be no personal responsibility, no sin, no crime.

> The

> newage/hippy experiement based on that ideology

> unfortunately did

> not work too long, once the music stopped and the

> smoke cleared!

>

>

> , Shripal

> <askvbnet>

> wrote:

> > Hi MARK,Rohiniji and ALL,

> > Can we think a little different way,as Lord has

> > said

> > "whatever is going to happen is going to Happen

> ,No

> > one in this universe can change that,not even lord

> > himself"

> > What I understand from this statement is that,

> >

> > World is like a movie,God has made it,every thing

> and

> > each and every character is decided,Not only I am

> > talking about yugas,But of all the yugas,From a

> time

> > of making of this world to end of this world or

> movie.

> > Karmas are terms that we use,Nothing such a sort

> > exists.Every thing is a way it is ,and it has been

> > decided.

> >

> > But please let me know from you all,who is a first

> > person who did a sin,had a birth or died.

> >

> > That's what i am trying to say,Like movies you

> have to

> > start with something and that goes on,there is no

> > start point nor even ending.So how karmas,prarapdh

> or

> > good deeds come in to an action.When this movies

> will

> > over.

> >

> > Agian a new movies will be created by him,again

> > various

> > character will be there,again I will be writing a

> same

> > mail.

> >

> > There is no end to this,It is made the way it has

> to

> > be.

> >

> > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> >

> > I have come across such individuals, but not many.

> > And,

> > interpretations vary from one person to another,

> even

> > when

> > individuals are judging the same person (and of

> > course, it is always

> > the other person who is sadly mistaken in this

> > reality!;-)

> >

> > Anyway, if we look deep enough, there is always a

> > shred of

> > selfishness there. Not that it is by itself bad.

> The

> > point I was

> > making was that it does not have to be a pure

> intent

> > or consistently

> > pure intent or even an intent that is universally

> > perceived as pure.

> > Action is what matters. Often, given our narrow,

> > amnesic

> > perspective, we are poor judges of intent anyway.

> If

> > we engage in

> > action, soul-statistics takes care of itself.

> > What you all think about this?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

___________________

> ___

> > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

> http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'

http://movies./showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

[Guest guest]

I agree with much of what you wrote, except for your 'described'

concept of 'God' as an entity, almost a unit, a person. I am

beginning to believe that God is the entire *matrix* of all that

there is (not very original, I know, oh knowing ones!).

 

God is not the brain that runs the show, that makes the hand reach

out in love or strike a deadly blow -- a scenario in which the brain

is the culprit, but the hand is not! It is more complex.

 

The analogy is crude but hopefully you get the picture. My God is

not authoritarian but more democratic, more of a delegator, kind of

like a healthy parent or healthy boss who is not afraid of

empowering or S/He would not have gifted us with creativity and hope

and optimism and remedies or the possibility of those. He also

allowed us discretion and reason, not without reason!

 

Ranjan

 

, surya vishnubhotla

<surya_prakashv> wrote:

> I believe in different contexts both are vaild ..

>

> We should look at things with detachment maybe like

> watching a movie (where emotions rise and fall but

> dont shake ur ethos .. well at lesat in most cases) ..

>

> at the same time action cannot justify itself by mere

> supposition that nothing is in our hands !!

>

> I dont to "what happens has to happen"

> unless its a vipareet karma ... in all other cases we

> have our own say in what has to happen I guess ...

>

> Again I feel this is a difference between reality and

> percieved reality ... all that happens around is

> reality and surely not a movie .. however how we

> percieve it is the movie we to !!

>

> I believe god simply creates the situations that we

> muse undergo to learn reality from the point of view

> of our reality ... he however in most cases leaves the

> outcome to our own actions !!

>

>

> --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > First we would have to have an absolute definition

> > for sin!

> > Sometimes what shows up as a sin and crime in a

> > narrow one lifetime

> > view looks differently when the full picture can be

> > viewed. However,

> > for most of us that takes us into the realm of

> > speculations and

> > discussion becomes fruitless. Just as it is not

> > possible to discuss

> > if we begin with the faith that everything is

> > predetermined.

> >

> > If everything is predetermined, then we are all

> > puppets and there

> > can be no personal responsibility, no sin, no crime.

> > The

> > newage/hippy experiement based on that ideology

> > unfortunately did

> > not work too long, once the music stopped and the

> > smoke cleared!

> >

> >

> > , Shripal

> > <askvbnet>

> > wrote:

> > > Hi MARK,Rohiniji and ALL,

> > > Can we think a little different way,as Lord has

> > > said

> > > "whatever is going to happen is going to Happen

> > ,No

> > > one in this universe can change that,not even lord

> > > himself"

> > > What I understand from this statement is that,

> > >

> > > World is like a movie,God has made it,every thing

> > and

> > > each and every character is decided,Not only I am

> > > talking about yugas,But of all the yugas,From a

> > time

> > > of making of this world to end of this world or

> > movie.

> > > Karmas are terms that we use,Nothing such a sort

> > > exists.Every thing is a way it is ,and it has been

> > > decided.

> > >

> > > But please let me know from you all,who is a first

> > > person who did a sin,had a birth or died.

> > >

> > > That's what i am trying to say,Like movies you

> > have to

> > > start with something and that goes on,there is no

> > > start point nor even ending.So how karmas,prarapdh

> > or

> > > good deeds come in to an action.When this movies

> > will

> > > over.

> > >

> > > Agian a new movies will be created by him,again

> > > various

> > > character will be there,again I will be writing a

> > same

> > > mail.

> > >

> > > There is no end to this,It is made the way it has

> > to

> > > be.

> > >

> > > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > >

> > > I have come across such individuals, but not many.

> > > And,

> > > interpretations vary from one person to another,

> > even

> > > when

> > > individuals are judging the same person (and of

> > > course, it is always

> > > the other person who is sadly mistaken in this

> > > reality!;-)

> > >

> > > Anyway, if we look deep enough, there is always a

> > > shred of

> > > selfishness there. Not that it is by itself bad.

> > The

> > > point I was

> > > making was that it does not have to be a pure

> > intent

> > > or consistently

> > > pure intent or even an intent that is universally

> > > perceived as pure.

> > > Action is what matters. Often, given our narrow,

> > > amnesic

> > > perspective, we are poor judges of intent anyway.

> > If

> > > we engage in

> > > action, soul-statistics takes care of itself.

> > > What you all think about this?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

___________________

> > ___

> > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

> > http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'

> http://movies./showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

[Guest guest]

Rohini ... u cant be more right when you say that god

is not an entity ... but is the matrix that is there

(incidentally I do think there was a indian involved

in the scripting of matrix !! )

 

But, from the absolute god came vishnu and other

demigods .. and also came our brain, that thinks "I am

and god is" ...

 

I believe as long as the brain keeps thinking of me

and god .. both will be different entities and we have

to submit to his superiority ... however in the

journey somewhere down the line this difference

vanishes .. and I believe that is indeed the true goal

that we are all pushed towards ...

 

I sometimes think that whatever god was he got bored

of being alone and said "let me be" and lo! came the

creation ... which was again a part of him as well ..

creating us was probably his need to be loved like we

all need to be loved in the truest sense of the word

(whatever that means !!) ... he most surely wont force

love on us ... and will allow us the pleasure of

making mistakes and understanding the meaning of it

nevertheless ...

 

So much for armchair philosophy

 

Surya.

 

--- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote:

> I agree with much of what you wrote, except for your

> 'described'

> concept of 'God' as an entity, almost a unit, a

> person. I am

> beginning to believe that God is the entire *matrix*

> of all that

> there is (not very original, I know, oh knowing

> ones!).

>

> God is not the brain that runs the show, that makes

> the hand reach

> out in love or strike a deadly blow -- a scenario in

> which the brain

> is the culprit, but the hand is not! It is more

> complex.

>

> The analogy is crude but hopefully you get the

> picture. My God is

> not authoritarian but more democratic, more of a

> delegator, kind of

> like a healthy parent or healthy boss who is not

> afraid of

> empowering or S/He would not have gifted us with

> creativity and hope

> and optimism and remedies or the possibility of

> those. He also

> allowed us discretion and reason, not without

> reason!

>

> Ranjan

>

> , surya

> vishnubhotla

> <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > I believe in different contexts both are vaild ..

> >

> > We should look at things with detachment maybe

> like

> > watching a movie (where emotions rise and fall but

> > dont shake ur ethos .. well at lesat in most

> cases) ..

> >

> > at the same time action cannot justify itself by

> mere

> > supposition that nothing is in our hands !!

> >

> > I dont to "what happens has to happen"

> > unless its a vipareet karma ... in all other

> cases we

> > have our own say in what has to happen I guess ...

> >

> > Again I feel this is a difference between reality

> and

> > percieved reality ... all that happens around is

> > reality and surely not a movie .. however how we

> > percieve it is the movie we to !!

> >

> > I believe god simply creates the situations that

> we

> > muse undergo to learn reality from the point of

> view

> > of our reality ... he however in most cases leaves

> the

> > outcome to our own actions !!

> >

> >

> > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > > First we would have to have an absolute

> definition

> > > for sin!

> > > Sometimes what shows up as a sin and crime in a

> > > narrow one lifetime

> > > view looks differently when the full picture can

> be

> > > viewed. However,

> > > for most of us that takes us into the realm of

> > > speculations and

> > > discussion becomes fruitless. Just as it is not

> > > possible to discuss

> > > if we begin with the faith that everything is

> > > predetermined.

> > >

> > > If everything is predetermined, then we are all

> > > puppets and there

> > > can be no personal responsibility, no sin, no

> crime.

> > > The

> > > newage/hippy experiement based on that ideology

> > > unfortunately did

> > > not work too long, once the music stopped and

> the

> > > smoke cleared!

> > >

> > >

> > > , Shripal

> > > <askvbnet>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Hi MARK,Rohiniji and ALL,

> > > > Can we think a little different way,as Lord

> has

> > > > said

> > > > "whatever is going to happen is going to

> Happen

> > > ,No

> > > > one in this universe can change that,not even

> lord

> > > > himself"

> > > > What I understand from this statement is that,

> > > >

> > > > World is like a movie,God has made it,every

> thing

> > > and

> > > > each and every character is decided,Not only I

> am

> > > > talking about yugas,But of all the yugas,From

> a

> > > time

> > > > of making of this world to end of this world

> or

> > > movie.

> > > > Karmas are terms that we use,Nothing such a

> sort

> > > > exists.Every thing is a way it is ,and it has

> been

> > > > decided.

> > > >

> > > > But please let me know from you all,who is a

> first

> > > > person who did a sin,had a birth or died.

> > > >

> > > > That's what i am trying to say,Like movies you

> > > have to

> > > > start with something and that goes on,there is

> no

> > > > start point nor even ending.So how

> karmas,prarapdh

> > > or

> > > > good deeds come in to an action.When this

> movies

> > > will

> > > > over.

> > > >

> > > > Agian a new movies will be created by

> him,again

> > > > various

> > > > character will be there,again I will be

> writing a

> > > same

> > > > mail.

> > > >

> > > > There is no end to this,It is made the way it

> has

> > > to

> > > > be.

> > > >

> > > > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I have come across such individuals, but not

> many.

> > > > And,

> > > > interpretations vary from one person to

> another,

> > > even

> > > > when

> > > > individuals are judging the same person (and

> of

> > > > course, it is always

> > > > the other person who is sadly mistaken in this

> > > > reality!;-)

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, if we look deep enough, there is

> always a

> > > > shred of

> > > > selfishness there. Not that it is by itself

> bad.

> > > The

> > > > point I was

> > > > making was that it does not have to be a pure

> > > intent

> > > > or consistently

> > > > pure intent or even an intent that is

> universally

> > > > perceived as pure.

> > > > Action is what matters. Often, given our

> narrow,

> > > > amnesic

> > > > perspective, we are poor judges of intent

> anyway.

> > > If

> > > > we engage in

> > > > action, soul-statistics takes care of itself.

> > > > What you all think about this?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

___________________

> > > ___

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SBC - Internet access at a great low price.

http://promo./sbc/

[Guest guest]

I think bored human beings (and boredom does bring on stupor and

fatigue to the brain!) conjured up such images of God, etc. in Its

all variations! Including some of what we know as scriptures and

dare not question!

 

Boredom comes out of the gap in what I am/have and what more I can

have/be. That spurs ambition and pushing the envelope and growth or

evolution. That is human, not divine!

 

I think the construct of Divinity is born out of human ambition, the

extreme ambition of becoming Perfect and Divine. Viewed such, God is

a figment of our ambition and ambitious imagination and the

imagination becomes more real in the focused and the self-realized.

 

It is a shame that our imagination stopped at what we call Divine,

scriptural, for the most part unrealized and anecdotal!

 

Perhaps the key is the "armchair"! I shall leave it at that!!

 

RR

 

 

 

 

 

, surya vishnubhotla

<surya_prakashv> wrote:

> Rohini ... u cant be more right when you say that god

> is not an entity ... but is the matrix that is there

> (incidentally I do think there was a indian involved

> in the scripting of matrix !! )

>

> But, from the absolute god came vishnu and other

> demigods .. and also came our brain, that thinks "I am

> and god is" ...

>

> I believe as long as the brain keeps thinking of me

> and god .. both will be different entities and we have

> to submit to his superiority ... however in the

> journey somewhere down the line this difference

> vanishes .. and I believe that is indeed the true goal

> that we are all pushed towards ...

>

> I sometimes think that whatever god was he got bored

> of being alone and said "let me be" and lo! came the

> creation ... which was again a part of him as well ..

> creating us was probably his need to be loved like we

> all need to be loved in the truest sense of the word

> (whatever that means !!) ... he most surely wont force

> love on us ... and will allow us the pleasure of

> making mistakes and understanding the meaning of it

> nevertheless ...

>

> So much for armchair philosophy

>

> Surya.

>

> --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > I agree with much of what you wrote, except for your

> > 'described'

> > concept of 'God' as an entity, almost a unit, a

> > person. I am

> > beginning to believe that God is the entire *matrix*

> > of all that

> > there is (not very original, I know, oh knowing

> > ones!).

> >

> > God is not the brain that runs the show, that makes

> > the hand reach

> > out in love or strike a deadly blow -- a scenario in

> > which the brain

> > is the culprit, but the hand is not! It is more

> > complex.

> >

> > The analogy is crude but hopefully you get the

> > picture. My God is

> > not authoritarian but more democratic, more of a

> > delegator, kind of

> > like a healthy parent or healthy boss who is not

> > afraid of

> > empowering or S/He would not have gifted us with

> > creativity and hope

> > and optimism and remedies or the possibility of

> > those. He also

> > allowed us discretion and reason, not without

> > reason!

> >

> > Ranjan

> >

> > , surya

> > vishnubhotla

> > <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > > I believe in different contexts both are vaild ..

> > >

> > > We should look at things with detachment maybe

> > like

> > > watching a movie (where emotions rise and fall but

> > > dont shake ur ethos .. well at lesat in most

> > cases) ..

> > >

> > > at the same time action cannot justify itself by

> > mere

> > > supposition that nothing is in our hands !!

> > >

> > > I dont to "what happens has to happen"

> > > unless its a vipareet karma ... in all other

> > cases we

> > > have our own say in what has to happen I guess ...

> > >

> > > Again I feel this is a difference between reality

> > and

> > > percieved reality ... all that happens around is

> > > reality and surely not a movie .. however how we

> > > percieve it is the movie we to !!

> > >

> > > I believe god simply creates the situations that

> > we

> > > muse undergo to learn reality from the point of

> > view

> > > of our reality ... he however in most cases leaves

> > the

> > > outcome to our own actions !!

> > >

> > >

> > > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > > > First we would have to have an absolute

> > definition

> > > > for sin!

> > > > Sometimes what shows up as a sin and crime in a

> > > > narrow one lifetime

> > > > view looks differently when the full picture can

> > be

> > > > viewed. However,

> > > > for most of us that takes us into the realm of

> > > > speculations and

> > > > discussion becomes fruitless. Just as it is not

> > > > possible to discuss

> > > > if we begin with the faith that everything is

> > > > predetermined.

> > > >

> > > > If everything is predetermined, then we are all

> > > > puppets and there

> > > > can be no personal responsibility, no sin, no

> > crime.

> > > > The

> > > > newage/hippy experiement based on that ideology

> > > > unfortunately did

> > > > not work too long, once the music stopped and

> > the

> > > > smoke cleared!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , Shripal

> > > > <askvbnet>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Hi MARK,Rohiniji and ALL,

> > > > > Can we think a little different way,as Lord

> > has

> > > > > said

> > > > > "whatever is going to happen is going to

> > Happen

> > > > ,No

> > > > > one in this universe can change that,not even

> > lord

> > > > > himself"

> > > > > What I understand from this statement is that,

> > > > >

> > > > > World is like a movie,God has made it,every

> > thing

> > > > and

> > > > > each and every character is decided,Not only I

> > am

> > > > > talking about yugas,But of all the yugas,From

> > a

> > > > time

> > > > > of making of this world to end of this world

> > or

> > > > movie.

> > > > > Karmas are terms that we use,Nothing such a

> > sort

> > > > > exists.Every thing is a way it is ,and it has

> > been

> > > > > decided.

> > > > >

> > > > > But please let me know from you all,who is a

> > first

> > > > > person who did a sin,had a birth or died.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's what i am trying to say,Like movies you

> > > > have to

> > > > > start with something and that goes on,there is

> > no

> > > > > start point nor even ending.So how

> > karmas,prarapdh

> > > > or

> > > > > good deeds come in to an action.When this

> > movies

> > > > will

> > > > > over.

> > > > >

> > > > > Agian a new movies will be created by

> > him,again

> > > > > various

> > > > > character will be there,again I will be

> > writing a

> > > > same

> > > > > mail.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no end to this,It is made the way it

> > has

> > > > to

> > > > > be.

> > > > >

> > > > > --- rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I have come across such individuals, but not

> > many.

> > > > > And,

> > > > > interpretations vary from one person to

> > another,

> > > > even

> > > > > when

> > > > > individuals are judging the same person (and

> > of

> > > > > course, it is always

> > > > > the other person who is sadly mistaken in this

> > > > > reality!;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, if we look deep enough, there is

> > always a

> > > > > shred of

> > > > > selfishness there. Not that it is by itself

> > bad.

> > > > The

> > > > > point I was

> > > > > making was that it does not have to be a pure

> > > > intent

> > > > > or consistently

> > > > > pure intent or even an intent that is

> > universally

> > > > > perceived as pure.

> > > > > Action is what matters. Often, given our

> > narrow,

> > > > > amnesic

> > > > > perspective, we are poor judges of intent

> > anyway.

> > > > If

> > > > > we engage in

> > > > > action, soul-statistics takes care of itself.

> > > > > What you all think about this?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

___________________

> > > > ___

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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