[JR]Jean - Bhakti & Jyana

[Guest guest]

Dear Jean,

 

I think my reply was taken out of context..To recap, I think it is

impossible to have pure bhakti and pure Jyana at the same time, because for

the latter have an ego is critical.

 

 

Ajith

As far as i understand, it is impossible to have pure bhakti and pure

jnana at the same time, though neither is inferior or superior or to the

other

 

In pure bhakti, the devotee sees himself as separate and keeps an ego of a

devotee and sees himself as separate from God. This differentiation is

essential so that the devotee can enjoy God. an example is that of an ant

and honey. An ant that relishes the honey does not see itself as honey. The

lover and beloved are separate. In Jyana, there is no such differention. It

is only realisation of the absolute and there is no duality like Me and

you. There is only I. Further it cannot be said that Jyana belongs to the

realm of the mind and bhakti to the heart. Realisation of the self, goes

beyond the senses.

 

 

 

Jean

That's the reason why we talk about "Para Bhakti" This is the highest

expression of Self-Referral process of Consciousness. There is no relative

duality at all in that...

 

Ajith

 

I am not too sure what you mean by self- referral process. In bhakti, the

referral process is always exterior, something other than the physical

self, where else in Jyana, the referral process is internal or immanent.

One seeks within. In bhakti, and even at the highest level or para bhakti,

the devotee sees himself as separate from the object of devotion. This is

the central theme. There are numerous examples, hanuman devotion to Rama,

Radhas' devotion to Krishna, Meeabai to Krishna, Chaitanya to Krishna,

Ramakrishna to Kali, Ramaprasad to Kali, St Thereasa., Rabia and so on.All

these saints or avatars maintined a relationship as child, servant, lover,

friend etc. To have this relationship one need an ego and that maintains a

degree of separateness. In fact that is the central theme of some

Vaishnavite schools. None of the devotees wanted to be their beloved but

wanted to "relish" the beloved and the only way they could do that is with

an ego. So there IS relative duality, though it is functional. The devotee

might intuitively realize his link with God , but chooses to experience Him

as separate. In Jyana, however, there is no separation, nor is there any

form. Only Knowing. So the two processes are different, but the end result

is the same, when in bhakti, the bhakta realises his unity with the

beloved. To further illustrate this point, I would refer you to M's Gospel

of Ramakrishna. In there Ramakrishna chides Vivekananda for initiating a

disciple into the formless aspect of God. Ramakrishna, states that the

process had slowed down the disciple's spiritual progress as he had lost

the attraction to God with form (Bhakti).

 

In the larger process, the cause of creation was because God being One,

wanted to know Himself and the only way He could do so was in the relative

world, where seemingly there is something other than Him. And so the game

began...

 

 

Reg

 

Ajith

 

 

 

K. Ajith

 

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Jean CLEMENT

<tashrif@wanad

<>

oo.fr> cc:

Re: Ajay - Destiny &

Free Will

23/04/04 22:09

Please respond

to

jyotish_remedi

es

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ajith,

 

In pure bhakti, the devotee sees himself as seperate and keeps an ego of a

devotee and sees himself as seperate from God...

 

That's the reason why we talk about "Para Bhakti" This is the highest

expression of Self-Referral process of Consciousness. There is no relative

duality at all in that...

 

Dear Ajay,

 

I am deeply troubled that the ancient land of my forefathers produces so

many enlightened souls - each one bringing his OWN LIGHT to dispel the

gloom of 'so called ignorance' - and the cycle of each 'new' enlightened

soul - Guru - brings NEW LIGHT to replace ' old knowledge and wisdom' which

is now termed 'ignorance'.

 

Jean - all I can say - that 'I am confused' - I have an open mind.

 

India is nothing else than the Land of Knowledge, the Land of Ved. The most

holy country nurtured to keep alive the most primordial sounds of life. All

over the world, anyone deeply immersed in the beauty of true spirituality

is a child of Mother India as India is Ma, the infinite dynamism, the Home

of the Devatas.

 

Enlightenment is a natural process You will find many, many enlighten souls

in India, more than what you think. The majority of them are living a

normal, quite and discreet life ) But take, for example, some whose

reputation has been widely spread. Their life is amazing but what they

share is that they didn't have much to do to finalized their journey to

moksha because as you start human you are bound to get moksha one day or

another ) and, but this is just a (personal and very, very humble )

point of view, they were just ready. Were they following a sadhana? Some

yes, some no, some made apparent effort to reach the Goal, some did...

nothing. And how funnily this was ultimately expressed...

 

Krishnamurti got sick and awake One with the creation!, Aurobindo was told

"That is That" etc... He just fully understood ) and got enlighten!,

Ramakrishna the Great Lover of KaliMa had to Kill Her during a meditation

then got Unity Consciousness! Ma Ananda Moyi become a ball of fire and what

was left was the Pure sweetness of the Self! Osho fall from a tree ) and

everything around him was just part of HimSelf! The Master of Nisargadatta

told Him "You are That" and because he had absolute faith in His Guru, He

trust him and become That! I could continue like that for a long time.

These masters were teaching rather differently but does it mean that some

teachings were better than others? Most certainly no! Because their

teaching is One with their exalted state of Consciousness, so in the

Absolute point of view they were only breathing Truth... They were not

replacing old knowledge with new wisdom but expressing the same old reality

through different expression due to different personalities, contexts,

cultures, places, social or religious situations... But only the Lord of

Time decides how much fullness of vedic knowledge will be expressed and how

practical It will be for the rest of us... collective consciousness.

 

We are at the junction point between Kali Yuga and a special Golden Age (a

Sat Yuga in the midst of Kali Yuga). Because only a new seed will give a

new crop, it is only natural that 2 sets of values in the field of

knowledge directly opposed each other.

 

>From one side an established knowledge whose purpose is to keep humanity in

its experience of suffering and confusion about the wholeness of life and

this is the normal state of knowledge for Kali Yuga, a knowledge that

should direct man towards a time of misery, betraying in the process all

aspects of its most fundamental divine nature.

 

And a knowledge that says that Life is wholeness, that life is done do be

lived in bliss, happiness, health and wealth through the DIRECT EXPERIENCE

of our most fundamental nature, Pure consciousness. and that this

experience is SIMPLE because completely NATURAL. It is completely natural

for the mind to reach the most harmonious and fulfilling state of

Consciousness, Our Self.

 

Some will say that the nature of the mind is to wander here and there and

that we have to suppress and control this "natural" aspect.

 

Guru, one of the most spiritual Graha would say "Opposition is dangerous to

immortality". Whenever you want to suppress, control, dominate, destroy or

twist natural tendencies of Life, Guru feels insulted as His natural

tendency is to embrace and to grow to more harmony and more wholeness.

 

The mind is seen wandering from object to object; it wanders not for the

sake of the object itself, but for the possibility of happiness that the

object provides. It does not naturally wander from object to object, but

moves from a point of lesser happiness to a point of greater happiness.

 

Since the greatest happiness is its goal, and the flow of the mind is

already in the direction of greater happiness, the direction need simply to

be changed inward like in the experience of diving. SO SIMPLE?

 

This is the deepest truth about Sani. Sani is the door that lead inward to

the direction of the Self. This diving process is called Dyan, Deep

Meditation. But it should not be understood to be something foreign

invented for some chosen ones only... only the monks or only those who have

a religious style of life etc... Dyan or to dive inward or Deep Meditation

is as vital for human than to breath or to eat or to wash. This is even

most needed for those who are involved in the field of action and important

relative responsibilities. This is the reason why Sani is so feared.

 

Since so long our senses and our mind have always be turned outward into

action depriving from full spiritual nourishment all aspects of our life as

a human being. The frustration of this natural tendency of diving or

cultivating Turiya Chetana is then expressed by Sani through so much grief,

pain and so on, like a tree becoming dry and sterile due to the lack of

nourishment.

 

I know that I will attract the thunder from some, but I am just speaking

about Jyotish, the best of lights, Pure Consciousness )

Nothing is to be taken serious in life except the joy of life.

 

Jean

 

 

~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

 

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