Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Dear Ajith, In pure bhakti, the devotee sees himself as seperate and keeps an ego of a devotee and sees himself as seperate from God... That's the reason why we talk about "Para Bhakti" This is the highest expression of Self-Referral process of Consciousness. There is no relative duality at all in that... Dear Ajay, I am deeply troubled that the ancient land of my forefathers produces so many enlightened souls - each one bringing his OWN LIGHT to dispel the gloom of 'so called ignorance' - and the cycle of each 'new' enlightened soul - Guru - brings NEW LIGHT to replace ' old knowledge and wisdom' which is now termed 'ignorance'. Jean - all I can say - that 'I am confused' - I have an open mind. India is nothing else than the Land of Knowledge, the Land of Ved. The most holy country nurtured to keep alive the most primordial sounds of life. All over the world, anyone deeply immersed in the beauty of true spirituality is a child of Mother India as India is Ma, the infinite dynamism, the Home of the Devatas. Enlightenment is a natural process You will find many, many enlighten souls in India, more than what you think. The majority of them are living a normal, quite and discreet life ) But take, for example, some whose reputation has been widely spread. Their life is amazing but what they share is that they didn't have much to do to finalized their journey to moksha because as you start human you are bound to get moksha one day or another ) and, but this is just a (personal and very, very humble ) point of view, they were just ready. Were they following a sadhana? Some yes, some no, some made apparent effort to reach the Goal, some did... nothing. And how funnily this was ultimately expressed... Krishnamurti got sick and awake One with the creation!, Aurobindo was told "That is That" etc... He just fully understood ) and got enlighten!, Ramakrishna the Great Lover of KaliMa had to Kill Her during a meditation then got Unity Consciousness! Ma Ananda Moyi become a ball of fire and what was left was the Pure sweetness of the Self! Osho fall from a tree ) and everything around him was just part of HimSelf! The Master of Nisargadatta told Him "You are That" and because he had absolute faith in His Guru, He trust him and become That! I could continue like that for a long time. These masters were teaching rather differently but does it mean that some teachings were better than others? Most certainly no! Because their teaching is One with their exalted state of Consciousness, so in the Absolute point of view they were only breathing Truth... They were not replacing old knowledge with new wisdom but expressing the same old reality through different expression due to different personalities, contexts, cultures, places, social or religious situations... But only the Lord of Time decides how much fullness of vedic knowledge will be expressed and how practical It will be for the rest of us... collective consciousness. We are at the junction point between Kali Yuga and a special Golden Age (a Sat Yuga in the midst of Kali Yuga). Because only a new seed will give a new crop, it is only natural that 2 sets of values in the field of knowledge directly opposed each other. >From one side an established knowledge whose purpose is to keep humanity in its experience of suffering and confusion about the wholeness of life and this is the normal state of knowledge for Kali Yuga, a knowledge that should direct man towards a time of misery, betraying in the process all aspects of its most fundamental divine nature. And a knowledge that says that Life is wholeness, that life is done do be lived in bliss, happiness, health and wealth through the DIRECT EXPERIENCE of our most fundamental nature, Pure consciousness. and that this experience is SIMPLE because completely NATURAL. It is completely natural for the mind to reach the most harmonious and fulfilling state of Consciousness, Our Self. Some will say that the nature of the mind is to wander here and there and that we have to suppress and control this "natural" aspect. Guru, one of the most spiritual Graha would say "Opposition is dangerous to immortality". Whenever you want to suppress, control, dominate, destroy or twist natural tendencies of Life, Guru feels insulted as His natural tendency is to embrace and to grow to more harmony and more wholeness. The mind is seen wandering from object to object; it wanders not for the sake of the object itself, but for the possibility of happiness that the object provides. It does not naturally wander from object to object, but moves from a point of lesser happiness to a point of greater happiness. Since the greatest happiness is its goal, and the flow of the mind is already in the direction of greater happiness, the direction need simply to be changed inward like in the experience of diving. SO SIMPLE? This is the deepest truth about Sani. Sani is the door that lead inward to the direction of the Self. This diving process is called Dyan, Deep Meditation. But it should not be understood to be something foreign invented for some chosen ones only... only the monks or only those who have a religious style of life etc... Dyan or to dive inward or Deep Meditation is as vital for human than to breath or to eat or to wash. This is even most needed for those who are involved in the field of action and important relative responsibilities. This is the reason why Sani is so feared. Since so long our senses and our mind have always be turned outward into action depriving from full spiritual nourishment all aspects of our life as a human being. The frustration of this natural tendency of diving or cultivating Turiya Chetana is then expressed by Sani through so much grief, pain and so on, like a tree becoming dry and sterile due to the lack of nourishment. I know that I will attract the thunder from some, but I am just speaking about Jyotish, the best of lights, Pure Consciousness ) Nothing is to be taken serious in life except the joy of life. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Jean those were beautiful words !!! they sum my own views as I see the path of spiritual awakening or even jyotishya ... thanks !! --- Jean CLEMENT <tashrif wrote: > Dear Ajith, > > In pure bhakti, the devotee sees himself as seperate > and keeps an ego of a > devotee and sees himself as seperate from God... > > That's the reason why we talk about "Para Bhakti" > This is the highest > expression of Self-Referral process of > Consciousness. There is no relative > duality at all in that... > > Dear Ajay, > > I am deeply troubled that the ancient land of my > forefathers produces so > many enlightened souls - each one bringing his OWN > LIGHT to dispel the gloom > of 'so called ignorance' - and the cycle of each > 'new' enlightened soul - > Guru - brings NEW LIGHT to replace ' old knowledge > and wisdom' which is now > termed 'ignorance'. > > Jean - all I can say - that 'I am confused' - I have > an open mind. > > India is nothing else than the Land of Knowledge, > the Land of Ved. The most > holy country nurtured to keep alive the most > primordial sounds of life. All > over the world, anyone deeply immersed in the beauty > of true spirituality is > a child of Mother India as India is Ma, the infinite > dynamism, the Home of > the Devatas. > > Enlightenment is a natural process You will find > many, many enlighten souls > in India, more than what you think. The majority of > them are living a > normal, quite and discreet life ) But take, for > example, some whose > reputation has been widely spread. Their life is > amazing but what they share > is that they didn't have much to do to finalized > their journey to moksha > because as you start human you are bound to get > moksha one day or another > ) and, but this is just a (personal and very, very > humble ) point of > view, they were just ready. Were they following a > sadhana? Some yes, some > no, some made apparent effort to reach the Goal, > some did... nothing. And > how funnily this was ultimately expressed... > > Krishnamurti got sick and awake One with the > creation!, Aurobindo was told > "That is That" etc... He just fully understood ) > and got enlighten!, > Ramakrishna the Great Lover of KaliMa had to Kill > Her during a meditation > then got Unity Consciousness! Ma Ananda Moyi become > a ball of fire and what > was left was the Pure sweetness of the Self! Osho > fall from a tree ) and > everything around him was just part of HimSelf! The > Master of Nisargadatta > told Him "You are That" and because he had absolute > faith in His Guru, He > trust him and become That! I could continue like > that for a long time. These > masters were teaching rather differently but does it > mean that some > teachings were better than others? Most certainly > no! Because their teaching > is One with their exalted state of Consciousness, so > in the Absolute point > of view they were only breathing Truth... They were > not replacing old > knowledge with new wisdom but expressing the same > old reality through > different expression due to different personalities, > contexts, cultures, > places, social or religious situations... But only > the Lord of Time decides > how much fullness of vedic knowledge will be > expressed and how practical It > will be for the rest of us... collective > consciousness. > > We are at the junction point between Kali Yuga and a > special Golden Age (a > Sat Yuga in the midst of Kali Yuga). Because only a > new seed will give a new > crop, it is only natural that 2 sets of values in > the field of knowledge > directly opposed each other. > > From one side an established knowledge whose purpose > is to keep humanity in > its experience of suffering and confusion about the > wholeness of life and > this is the normal state of knowledge for Kali Yuga, > a knowledge that should > direct man towards a time of misery, betraying in > the process all aspects of > its most fundamental divine nature. > > And a knowledge that says that Life is wholeness, > that life is done do be > lived in bliss, happiness, health and wealth through > the DIRECT EXPERIENCE > of our most fundamental nature, Pure consciousness. > and that this experience > is SIMPLE because completely NATURAL. It is > completely natural for the mind > to reach the most harmonious and fulfilling state of > Consciousness, Our > Self. > > Some will say that the nature of the mind is to > wander here and there and > that we have to suppress and control this "natural" > aspect. > > Guru, one of the most spiritual Graha would say > "Opposition is dangerous to > immortality". Whenever you want to suppress, > control, dominate, destroy or > twist natural tendencies of Life, Guru feels > insulted as His natural > tendency is to embrace and to grow to more harmony > and more wholeness. > > The mind is seen wandering from object to object; it > wanders not for the > sake of the object itself, but for the possibility > of happiness that the > object provides. It does not naturally wander from > object to object, but > moves from a point of lesser happiness to a point of > greater happiness. > > Since the greatest happiness is its goal, and the > flow of the mind is > already in the direction of greater happiness, the > direction need simply to > be changed inward like in the experience of diving. > SO SIMPLE? > > This is the deepest truth about Sani. Sani is the > door that lead inward to > the direction of the Self. This diving process is > called Dyan, Deep > Meditation. But it should not be understood to be > something foreign invented > for some chosen ones only... only the monks or only > those who have a > religious style of life etc... Dyan or to dive > inward or Deep Meditation is > as vital for human than to breath or to eat or to > wash. This is even most > needed for those who are involved in the field of > action and important > relative responsibilities. This is the reason why > Sani is so feared. > > Since so long our senses and our mind have always be > turned outward into > action depriving from full spiritual nourishment all > aspects of our life as > a human being. The frustration of this natural > tendency of diving or > cultivating Turiya Chetana is then expressed by Sani > through so much grief, > pain and so on, like a tree becoming dry and sterile > due to the lack of > nourishment. > > I know that I will attract the thunder from some, > but I am just speaking > about Jyotish, the best of lights, Pure > Consciousness ) > Nothing is to be taken serious in life except the > joy of life. > > Jean > > Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ ph/print_splash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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