Jean: Shankara

[Guest guest]

Dear Jean ,

 

Having read the lengthy and interesting article, I feel i have to add my 2

cents worth.

 

1.Firstly Sankara did not advocate the monastic route for all. He taught

non- qualified monism, the central principle of which is All is Brahman and

that means realizing objective phenomena for what it is Maya. In his famous

work, Bhaja Govindam, he rebukes a scholar and advocates him to seek

Govinda( God). This does not refer to Sanyasa but more of Karma or Bhakti

yoga, which is appropriate for householders.

 

2. Secondly, you stated that Shankara "displayed (para bhakti), while his

mind expressed pure jnana. This it was that led Shankara's speech to flow

into ecstasies of devotion and at the same time into clear expressions of

knowledge, the dry and hard-headed truths concerning Divine nature"

 

As far as i understand, it is impossible to have bure bhakti and pure

jnana at the same time, though neither is inferior or superior or superior

to the other

 

In pure bhakti, the devotee sees himself as seperate and keeps an ego of a

devotee and sees himself as seperate from God. This differentiation is

essential so that the devotee can enjoy God. an example is that of an ant

and honey. An ant that relishes the honey does not see itself as honey. The

lover and beloved are seperate. In Jnana, there is no such differention. It

is only realisation of the absolute and there is no duality like Me and

you. There is only I. Further it cannot be said that Jnana belongs to the

realm of the mind and bhakti to the heart. Realisation of the self, goes

behond the senses.

 

So Bhakti and Jnana ARE two different approaches and cannot be experienced

simultaneously, but can be experienced on different occassions. The final

result however the Gita says is the same... The Bhakta realises his

identity with the Bhaghavan.

 

 

K. Ajith

 

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Jean CLEMENT

<tashrif@wanad

<>

oo.fr> cc:

Re: Re: Ajay: Destiny

& Free

22/04/04 15:33 Will

Please respond

to

jyotish_remedi

es

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ajay,

 

I joined this group just a few weeks ago - a complete novice in these

matters - and

living inn London!! - but not far removed from the land of my cultural

heritage and

ancestors.

 

These days Our Mother need Her children spread all over our dear planet...

and after all, Veda is Universal... and wherever you are, your body is that

temple that is able to live fullness of life whoever you may me or whatever

you may be; Indian, European, African, Christian, Jew...

 

My Guru's teaching goes like this:

What you have experienced in the past is / was your DESTINY - the future is

in your

hands and that is FREE WILL - do your best!

 

The teaching of your Guru is true, but to my experience, without any

offense, I would say that the present is also conditioned by the past. To

my observation, people will not be able to feel free to think and to act on

matter that are deeply foreign to them. We could see in some Jyotish chart,

some configuration that will make difficult for some young soul to aspire,

by example, to moksha or even to have an interest in any aspect of

knowledge. This "maturation" of the soul is not coming naturally for

anyone, we have to work for it... and it takes some time. Do not expect a

young soul just rising from animal plane to understand and experience the

concepts of Subjective knowledge that easily, they will be concerned with

more basic fields of interest. So your Master is Absolutely right, there

will be free will in the present action, but the range of this free will

will be restricted somehow; this is just a point of view to wander "how

much freedom means free".

 

Other deeper questions arise about not being tied up in the fruits of your

actions -

I am not comfortable with the interpretations given to 'me' that " do your

'karma' /

actions- but do not be tied up with the fruits of your actions" - I am

sure you

know what I mean....

 

My simple question is : "Why not?"

If I have worked hard to pass my exams or worked hard to prepare and

deliver a

thesis on bio-technology - should I not be concerned that it should go

well??

 

"But do not be tied up with the fruits of your actions..." Many

translations and even more commentaries... on the Chapter II, verse 47 of

the Bhagavad-Gita... the problem is that it should not be taken out of its

context. The verse 47 is understood only in the context of the previous

verses, specially from verse 45 and to the following verses, specially

starting from verse 48 )... The Key; the state of Yoga, "...being without

the three gunas...", turiya chetana (transcendantal consciousness) or

experience of Samadhi.

 

Vedic text will tell you that everything is Brahm. "That" (Absolute) is

Brahm but "This" (Relative) also is Brahm. Nothing is left over... From the

smallest to the Biggest, from relative to Absolute... From Emptiness to

Fullness; all the fields of life, all the fields of knowledge, being vedic

or modern... Brahm is One Wholeness... and wholeness is a status that

should be lived ultimately.

 

I would give you some words from my Master about the "birth" of the

misinterpretation of "not being tied up with the fruits of Actions":

 

"...Shankara's view has been misrepresented by commentators who undertook

to propagate his philosophy. They seem to have missed the central part of

spiritual life -- turiya chetana (transcendental consciousness) and the

direct way to its realisation. As a result, everything which aimed at

clarifying the process of transcending has been held to belong to the path

of renunciation and attributed to the recluse way of life. This lack of

insight led to the idea that the centre of spiritual life is to be found in

the recluse order, thus debarring the householder from the gains of

spirituality.

 

Since they followed the recluse way of life, they were naturally concerned

with thoughts of the separateness of the Divine from the world; and, with

the continuance of this situation generation after generation, that aspect

of knowledge began to dominate Shankara's tradition...The teaching became

one-sided and, deprived of its wholeness, eventually lost its universal

appeal. It came to be regarded as mayavada, a philosophy of illusion,

holding the world to be only illusory and emphasising the detached way of

life.

 

When this detached view of life became accepted as the basis of Vedic

wisdom, the wholeness of life and fulfilment was lost. This error of

understanding has dominated Indian culture for centuries and has turned the

principle of life upside down. Life on the basis of detachment. This is a

complete distortion of Indian philosophy. It has not only destroyed the

path of realisation, but has led the seekers of truth continuously astray.

 

Shankara's consciousness exemplified the highest state of human

development; his heart expressed supreme devotion to God (para bhakti),

while his mind expressed awareness of the Self as separate from the field

of action (jnana). This it was that led Shankara's speech to flow into

ecstasies of devotion and at the same time into clear expressions of

knowledge, the dry and hard-headed truths concerning Divine nature...

 

His expressions of deep devotion made in the state of complete surrender

and oneness with God, and his intellectual clarifications made in the state

of awareness of the Divine nature, are both so full and complete in

themselves that, seen from the ordinary level of consciousness, they

appeared to present two independent paths to enlightenment: the path of

knowledge and the path of devotion.

 

In the field of behaviour and experience the strain of attempting to be

dispassionate and detached, of trying to make a mood of equanimity in

pleasure and pain, only puts unnatural, undue stress on the mind, resulting

in the development of an unnatural and warped state of the inner

personality. This kind of practice has helped to bring dullness,

artificiality and tension to life in the name of spiritual growth."

 

"...The founder of the Yoga philosophy, Patanjali, was himself

misinterpreted, and the order of stages on his eightfold path reversed. The

practice of yoga was understood to start with yama, niyama, and so on (the

secular virtues), whereas in reality it should begin with samadhi. Samadhi

cannot be gained by the practice of yama, niyama, and so on. Proficiency in

the virtues can only be gained by repeated experiences of samadhi."

 

"Bring in the light....!

Ignorance is destroyed by gaining knowledge, and not that knowledge is

gained by destroying ignorance. Therefore the seeker has not to try to come

out of ignorance; rather he should try to gain knowledge through direct

experience."

 

"When the mind begins to take delight in the objects of the senses, this

shows that its delight is not within; the mind is not anchored to the bliss

of the Self, it is absorbed in the outer direction away from bliss.

 

The direct experience of transcendental bliss gives a man such a great

contentment that the joys of the relative world fail to make a deep

impression on him, and he naturally rises above the binding influence of

action."

 

Best regards

Jean

 

And, in essence, for what Jyotish claim to be: "We don't go for what the

world has been, we go for what the world should be."

 

 

 

~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

 

/