Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 On the subject of Love, i recall what i heard from a sadhu on the Sanskar channel. The wenstern concept of I Love You was being rebuked by the saint. Love may i, we or him nahi hai. Love may Love hi Love hai. I Love You. X Loves Y. But cannot have the same feeling for Z This is not love. Love is Love is Love. In Love there is Love alone. There are no subjects and objects. As long as subjects and objects are being discussed in love. It has to mature. Love is not conditional. Love is not subjective. Love will be Universal. , "khallopapa" <khallopapa> wrote: > > I guess Meeta has some problem ;-)Ask her, she would say she did not > love Sandeep so much as she does Arun now. > I still believe...true love though hard to find...does exist > somewhere...without expectations and attachment....very very rare. > Expressing, praising or singing songs to your so-called beloved dont > mean anything. To become mad for someone is so easy...to CONTROL and > remain detatched , to love but not be mad is where we can measure > the depth of love, I guess. > 'Lose yrself in love' as they say but my opinion is love is > SILENT...it can bear a lot. > > I hope I made sense. > > Manoshi , "indervohra2001" > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > That means dear, that Meeta loving two boys can not be called as > > love.( Meeta is virtualy mad for sandeep as she was earlier for > > Arun). > > The love you mean is perhaps devotion towards humanity etc or > > something like that ? > > Inder > > > > -- In , "khallopapa" > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > TRUE LOVE never becomes PAST, it's always PRESENT (...in the > heart > > > of a person) whatever be the circumstances. > > > Frankly, in this world, it's very rare and hard to get such > divine > > > love eithout expectations and without any attachment. You > > sometimes > > > may misjudge people too. > > > I think that gives the answer. > > > > > > But as our JR quote is > > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen...which is mine is forever > > > mine :-) > > > > > > I will post the birth details of the MS patient very soon...have > > to > > > rush now. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > The confusion I have is like this; > > > > Suppose a widow is spending her life remembering her diseased > > > > husband. > > > > Suddenly a man comes in her life, and she starts loving him. > > > > Will this love be called un-divine ? > > > > Or Meeta loves Arun, and after sometimes, she madly falls in > > love > > > > with Sandeep. Will this love be un-divine. > > > > May be a bit immature but can we call this love of Meeta > > > > lust/infatiuation etc. > > > > Or phisical attraction between apposite sexes and divine love > > are > > > > two different things. > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In , "khallopapa" > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > Was the posting too long to read ?...kidding ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I think I know what you are trying to say.I am not an expert > > but > > > > > from my experience [ five years of marriage now..if you mean > > > that > > > > > love :-) ] I can only say that, > > > > > > > > > > LOVE has to be FELT. TRUE LOVE doesnt make much NOISE, it's > > > > SILENT. > > > > > TRUE LOVE never becomes PAST, it's always PRESENT (...in the > > > heart > > > > > of a person) whatever be the circumstances. I admire those > > > widows > > > > > who spend their whole life in the memory of their beloved. > > > > > > > > > > I hope you experience true love very soon and the next > posting > > > on > > > > > LOVE comes from you....who knows ;-) > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Manoshi, > > > > > > I have a very simple confusion about love which I am never > > > able > > > > to > > > > > > resolve. That is : > > > > > > What is LOVE ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , "khallopapa" > > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read it and found it very meaningfuL and > > just....wonderful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "[Love may be symbolised by a triangle. The first angle > > is,] > > > > love > > > > > > > questions not. It is not a BEGGAR. . . . Beggar's love > is > > no > > > > > love > > > > > > at > > > > > > > all. The first sign of love is when love ASKS NOTHING, > > [when > > > > it] > > > > > > > gives everything. This is the real spiritual worship, > the > > > > worship > > > > > > > through love. Whether God is merciful is no longer > > > questioned. > > > > > He > > > > > > is > > > > > > > God; He is my love. Whether God is omnipotent and > > almighty, > > > > > limited > > > > > > > or unlimited, is no longer questioned. If He distributes > > > good, > > > > > all > > > > > > > right; if He brings evil, what does it matter? All other > > > > > attributes > > > > > > > vanish except that one — infinite love" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Love never asks; it always gives. . . . When a young > man > > > goes > > > > > to > > > > > > see > > > > > > > his sweetheart, . . . there is no business relationship > > > between > > > > > > > them; theirs is a relationship of love, and love is no > > > beggar. > > > > > [in > > > > > > > the same way], we understand that the beginning of real > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > worship means no begging. We have finished all > > > begging: "Lord, > > > > > give > > > > > > > me this and that." Then will religion begin." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The second [angle of the triangle of love] is that love > > > knows > > > > no > > > > > > > fear. You may cut me to pieces, and I [will] still love > > you." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The third [angle of the love-triangle is that] love is > > its > > > > own > > > > > > end. > > > > > > > It can never be the means. The man who says, "I love you > > for > > > > such > > > > > > > and such a thing", does not love. Love can never be the > > > means; > > > > it > > > > > > > must be the perfect end. What is the end and aim of > love? > > To > > > > love > > > > > > > God, that is all. Why should one love God? [There is] no > > why, > > > > > > > because it is not the means. When one can love, that is > > > > > salvation, > > > > > > > that is perfection, that is heaven. What more? What else > > can > > > > be > > > > > the > > > > > > > end? What can you have higher than love?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The question was asked: How to worship? Worship Him as > > > dearer > > > > > than > > > > > > > all your possessions, dearer than all your relatives, > > > [dearer > > > > > than] > > > > > > > your children. [Worship Him as] the one you love as Love > > > > itself. > > > > > > > There is one whose name is infinite Love. That is the > only > > > > > > > definition of God. Do not care if this . . . universe is > > > > > destroyed. > > > > > > > What do we care as long as He is infinite love? [Do you > > see > > > > what > > > > > > > worship means? All other thoughts must go. Everything > must > > > > vanish > > > > > > > except God. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to read the full lecture go to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_6/vol_6_fra > > > > > > > me.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Meeta is in deep trouble. She is not eating properly, irregular periods, very nervous and palpitations. She wants to marry her love otherwise she says she will die. Less severe case was earlier with Arun. We laugh at her. If she is not in love than what is this foolishness called ? Inder In , "Rajeev Tadepalli" <Rajeev.Tadepalli@S...> wrote: > On the subject of Love, i recall what i heard from a sadhu on the > Sanskar channel. > > The wenstern concept of > > I Love You was being rebuked by the saint. > > Love may i, we or him nahi hai. > > Love may Love hi Love hai. > > I Love You. > > X Loves Y. But cannot have the same feeling for Z > > This is not love. > > Love is Love is Love. > > In Love there is Love alone. > > There are no subjects and objects. > > As long as subjects and objects are being discussed in love. > > It has to mature. > > Love is not conditional. Love is not subjective. > > Love will be Universal. > > > , "khallopapa" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > I guess Meeta has some problem ;-)Ask her, she would say she did > not > > love Sandeep so much as she does Arun now. > > I still believe...true love though hard to find...does exist > > somewhere...without expectations and attachment....very very rare. > > Expressing, praising or singing songs to your so-called beloved > dont > > mean anything. To become mad for someone is so easy...to CONTROL > and > > remain detatched , to love but not be mad is where we can measure > > the depth of love, I guess. > > 'Lose yrself in love' as they say but my opinion is love is > > SILENT...it can bear a lot. > > > > I hope I made sense. > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > That means dear, that Meeta loving two boys can not be called as > > > love.( Meeta is virtualy mad for sandeep as she was earlier for > > > Arun). > > > The love you mean is perhaps devotion towards humanity etc or > > > something like that ? > > > Inder > > > > > > -- In , "khallopapa" > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > TRUE LOVE never becomes PAST, it's always PRESENT (...in the > > heart > > > > of a person) whatever be the circumstances. > > > > Frankly, in this world, it's very rare and hard to get such > > divine > > > > love eithout expectations and without any attachment. You > > > sometimes > > > > may misjudge people too. > > > > I think that gives the answer. > > > > > > > > But as our JR quote is > > > > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen...which is mine is forever > > > > mine :-) > > > > > > > > I will post the birth details of the MS patient very > soon...have > > > to > > > > rush now. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > The confusion I have is like this; > > > > > Suppose a widow is spending her life remembering her > diseased > > > > > husband. > > > > > Suddenly a man comes in her life, and she starts loving him. > > > > > Will this love be called un-divine ? > > > > > Or Meeta loves Arun, and after sometimes, she madly falls in > > > love > > > > > with Sandeep. Will this love be un-divine. > > > > > May be a bit immature but can we call this love of Meeta > > > > > lust/infatiuation etc. > > > > > Or phisical attraction between apposite sexes and divine > love > > > are > > > > > two different things. > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In , "khallopapa" > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > > > Was the posting too long to read ?...kidding ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I know what you are trying to say.I am not an > expert > > > but > > > > > > from my experience [ five years of marriage now..if you > mean > > > > that > > > > > > love :-) ] I can only say that, > > > > > > > > > > > > LOVE has to be FELT. TRUE LOVE doesnt make much NOISE, > it's > > > > > SILENT. > > > > > > TRUE LOVE never becomes PAST, it's always PRESENT (...in > the > > > > heart > > > > > > of a person) whatever be the circumstances. I admire those > > > > widows > > > > > > who spend their whole life in the memory of their beloved. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope you experience true love very soon and the next > > posting > > > > on > > > > > > LOVE comes from you....who knows ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "indervohra2001" > > > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > I have a very simple confusion about love which I am > never > > > > able > > > > > to > > > > > > > resolve. That is : > > > > > > > What is LOVE ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , "khallopapa" > > > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read it and found it very meaningfuL and > > > just....wonderful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "[Love may be symbolised by a triangle. The first > angle > > > is,] > > > > > love > > > > > > > > questions not. It is not a BEGGAR. . . . Beggar's love > > is > > > no > > > > > > love > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > all. The first sign of love is when love ASKS NOTHING, > > > [when > > > > > it] > > > > > > > > gives everything. This is the real spiritual worship, > > the > > > > > worship > > > > > > > > through love. Whether God is merciful is no longer > > > > questioned. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > God; He is my love. Whether God is omnipotent and > > > almighty, > > > > > > limited > > > > > > > > or unlimited, is no longer questioned. If He > distributes > > > > good, > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > right; if He brings evil, what does it matter? All > other > > > > > > attributes > > > > > > > > vanish except that one — infinite love" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Love never asks; it always gives. . . . When a young > > man > > > > goes > > > > > > to > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > his sweetheart, . . . there is no business > relationship > > > > between > > > > > > > > them; theirs is a relationship of love, and love is no > > > > beggar. > > > > > > [in > > > > > > > > the same way], we understand that the beginning of > real > > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > worship means no begging. We have finished all > > > > begging: "Lord, > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > me this and that." Then will religion begin." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The second [angle of the triangle of love] is that > love > > > > knows > > > > > no > > > > > > > > fear. You may cut me to pieces, and I [will] still > love > > > you." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The third [angle of the love-triangle is that] love > is > > > its > > > > > own > > > > > > > end. > > > > > > > > It can never be the means. The man who says, "I love > you > > > for > > > > > such > > > > > > > > and such a thing", does not love. Love can never be > the > > > > means; > > > > > it > > > > > > > > must be the perfect end. What is the end and aim of > > love? > > > To > > > > > love > > > > > > > > God, that is all. Why should one love God? [There is] > no > > > why, > > > > > > > > because it is not the means. When one can love, that > is > > > > > > salvation, > > > > > > > > that is perfection, that is heaven. What more? What > else > > > can > > > > > be > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > end? What can you have higher than love?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The question was asked: How to worship? Worship Him > as > > > > dearer > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > all your possessions, dearer than all your relatives, > > > > [dearer > > > > > > than] > > > > > > > > your children. [Worship Him as] the one you love as > Love > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > There is one whose name is infinite Love. That is the > > only > > > > > > > > definition of God. Do not care if this . . . universe > is > > > > > > destroyed. > > > > > > > > What do we care as long as He is infinite love? [Do > you > > > see > > > > > what > > > > > > > > worship means? All other thoughts must go. Everything > > must > > > > > vanish > > > > > > > > except God. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to read the full lecture go to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_6/vol_6_fra > > > > > > > > me.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 I don't no much about Love ,but I think you cannot determine a Love with all these qualities. Love is like freedom,it is not confined to any boundaries as such,Love does n't happen with some one or some thing.Some one or something can be a triggering factor for a love to happen.Love does not konw attaraction or any other dictionary word.If any one is in love,than he won't have LOVE only for that person,rather he will love each and everything in this world,If his/her love is confined to a person and not others ,than my guess is that it is temporary a attaraction and not a LOVE.Love is to Love every one and every thing in this world and not mere a person. ______________________ India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ In-<c67o6b+mch8 User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 "indervohra2001" indervohra2001 Mailing-List: list ; contact -owner Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:36:56 -0000 Re: Divine Love Meeta is in deep trouble. She is not eating properly, irregular periods, very nervous and palpitations. She wants to marry her love otherwise she says she will die. Less severe case was earlier with Arun. We laugh at her. If she is not in love than what is this foolishness called ? Inder In , "Rajeev Tadepalli" <Rajeev.Tadepalli@S...> wrote: > On the subject of Love, i recall what i heard from a sadhu on the > Sanskar channel. > > The wenstern concept of > > I Love You was being rebuked by the saint. > > Love may i, we or him nahi hai. > > Love may Love hi Love hai. > > I Love You. > > X Loves Y. But cannot have the same feeling for Z > > This is not love. > > Love is Love is Love. > > In Love there is Love alone. > > There are no subjects and objects. > > As long as subjects and objects are being discussed in love. > > It has to mature. > > Love is not conditional. Love is not subjective. > > Love will be Universal. > > > , "khallopapa" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > I guess Meeta has some problem ;-)Ask her, she would say she did > not > > love Sandeep so much as she does Arun now. > > I still believe...true love though hard to find...does exist > > somewhere...without expectations and attachment....very very rare. > > Expressing, praising or singing songs to your so-called beloved > dont > > mean anything. To become mad for someone is so easy...to CONTROL > and > > remain detatched , to love but not be mad is where we can measure > > the depth of love, I guess. > > 'Lose yrself in love' as they say but my opinion is love is > > SILENT...it can bear a lot. > > > > I hope I made sense. > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > That means dear, that Meeta loving two boys can not be called as > > > love.( Meeta is virtualy mad for sandeep as she was earlier for > > > Arun). > > > The love you mean is perhaps devotion towards humanity etc or > > > something like that ? > > > Inder > > > > > > -- In , "khallopapa" > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > TRUE LOVE never becomes PAST, it's always PRESENT (...in the > > heart > > > > of a person) whatever be the circumstances. > > > > Frankly, in this world, it's very rare and hard to get such > > divine > > > > love eithout expectations and without any attachment. You > > > sometimes > > > > may misjudge people too. > > > > I think that gives the answer. > > > > > > > > But as our JR quote is > > > > > > > > what cannot happen can never happen...which is mine is forever > > > > mine :-) > > > > > > > > I will post the birth details of the MS patient very > soon...have > > > to > > > > rush now. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > The confusion I have is like this; > > > > > Suppose a widow is spending her life remembering her > diseased > > > > > husband. > > > > > Suddenly a man comes in her life, and she starts loving him. > > > > > Will this love be called un-divine ? > > > > > Or Meeta loves Arun, and after sometimes, she madly falls in > > > love > > > > > with Sandeep. Will this love be un-divine. > > > > > May be a bit immature but can we call this love of Meeta > > > > > lust/infatiuation etc. > > > > > Or phisical attraction between apposite sexes and divine > love > > > are > > > > > two different things. > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In , "khallopapa" > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Inder, > > > > > > > > > > > > Was the posting too long to read ?...kidding ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I know what you are trying to say.I am not an > expert > > > but > > > > > > from my experience [ five years of marriage now..if you > mean > > > > that > > > > > > love :-) ] I can only say that, > > > > > > > > > > > > LOVE has to be FELT. TRUE LOVE doesnt make much NOISE, > it's > > > > > SILENT. > > > > > > TRUE LOVE never becomes PAST, it's always PRESENT (...in > the > > > > heart > > > > > > of a person) whatever be the circumstances. I admire those > > > > widows > > > > > > who spend their whole life in the memory of their beloved. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope you experience true love very soon and the next > > posting > > > > on > > > > > > LOVE comes from you....who knows ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Manoshi, > > > > > > > I have a very simple confusion about love which I am > never > > > > able > > > > > to > > > > > > > resolve. That is : > > > > > > > What is LOVE ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , "khallopapa" > > > > > > > <khallopapa> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read it and found it very meaningfuL and > > > just....wonderful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "[Love may be symbolised by a triangle. The first > angle > > > is,] > > > > > love > > > > > > > > questions not. It is not a BEGGAR. . . . Beggar's love > > is > > > no > > > > > > love > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > all. The first sign of love is when love ASKS NOTHING, > > > [when > > > > > it] > > > > > > > > gives everything. This is the real spiritual worship, > > the > > > > > worship > > > > > > > > through love. Whether God is merciful is no longer > > > > questioned. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > God; He is my love. Whether God is omnipotent and > > > almighty, > > > > > > limited > > > > > > > > or unlimited, is no longer questioned. If He > distributes > > > > good, > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > right; if He brings evil, what does it matter? All > other > > > > > > attributes > > > > > > > > vanish except that one — infinite love" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Love never asks; it always gives. . . . When a young > > man > > > > goes > > > > > > to > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > his sweetheart, . . . there is no business > relationship > > > > between > > > > > > > > them; theirs is a relationship of love, and love is no > > > > beggar. > > > > > > [in > > > > > > > > the same way], we understand that the beginning of > real > > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > worship means no begging. We have finished all > > > > begging: "Lord, > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > me this and that." Then will religion begin." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The second [angle of the triangle of love] is that > love > > > > knows > > > > > no > > > > > > > > fear. You may cut me to pieces, and I [will] still > love > > > you." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The third [angle of the love-triangle is that] love > is > > > its > > > > > own > > > > > > > end. > > > > > > > > It can never be the means. The man who says, "I love > you > > > for > > > > > such > > > > > > > > and such a thing", does not love. Love can never be > the > > > > means; > > > > > it > > > > > > > > must be the perfect end. What is the end and aim of > > love? > > > To > > > > > love > > > > > > > > God, that is all. Why should one love God? [There is] > no > > > why, > > > > > > > > because it is not the means. When one can love, that > is > > > > > > salvation, > > > > > > > > that is perfection, that is heaven. What more? What > else > > > can > > > > > be > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > end? What can you have higher than love?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The question was asked: How to worship? Worship Him > as > > > > dearer > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > all your possessions, dearer than all your relatives, > > > > [dearer > > > > > > than] > > > > > > > > your children. [Worship Him as] the one you love as > Love > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > There is one whose name is infinite Love. That is the > > only > > > > > > > > definition of God. Do not care if this . . . universe > is > > > > > > destroyed. > > > > > > > > What do we care as long as He is infinite love? [Do > you > > > see > > > > > what > > > > > > > > worship means? All other thoughts must go. Everything > > must > > > > > vanish > > > > > > > > except God. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to read the full lecture go to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_6/vol_6_fra > > > > > > > > me.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoshi ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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