Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Hey Souvik, In this regard there was very nice explanation given by Sri Ramakrishna in the Gospel by M. Am indicating this here because you are from the land of Sri Ramakrishna. Around 1850's there used to be a popular idea about a cow tied with a rope to a pole, in Bengal. So people intrepreted that with in the circle of whose radius is the rope, the cow had free will. Beyond the ropes length it is destiny. Ramakrishna told to Mahendranath that it is a very bad explanation. In Sri Ramakrishna's personal opinion, every thing is destined. (As far as my understanding goes.) Why does he feel so ? He has submitted his will to the lord? People can read this anectode from Sri Ramakrishna's biography of M. Even Mother Theresa, (Oh! God you are making me speak about the enlightened personalities who pervaded your mother land !) Thought that she is just a mere pencil in the hand's for god. She thought every thing happening out of his will. Now we go and interview Narendranath alias Vivekananda, he say every thing is because of his will Destinity is bull shit. Is it Jnana vs Bhakti................ On the extremes both are approved views. Mortals like us are in between points on the scale. We have to move to one or the other end. For me there is no debate on Freewill and Destiny. It is not a topic of debate at all. Let what ever ought to happen happen by destiny! We have the freewill not to identify with what is happening and come out of the wheel of Karma !! It is our free will that breaks the cycle of destiny. Develop dispassion, tyaga and disassociate emotions with actions. That is free will. Destiny will only exhaust out and the soul will triumph !! OM TAT SAT [] Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:30 PM Digest Number 442 There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. To Inderji: Man the ruler of his own Destiny: From Souvik "OM" <explore_vulcan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:10:33 -0000 "OM" <explore_vulcan To Inderji: Man the ruler of his own Destiny: From Souvik Yes, Inderji..I understand ur point. In the level u r talking, we can root to only The ONE... Ekam advaitam Yes, this is true but it was HIS will to create many from one... Ekam anekam Thank God he did so otherwise how could we discuss these topics on the group :) IT would be Souvik to Souvik or Inderji to Inderji...as we would be ONE... I feel let us mortals see things in the view of natural instincts and supreme consciousness as separate entities...atleast for naives like me, I find it easier I believe and strongly stick to my conventions that destiny is decided by the deeds we do today. This is replicated in the age old saying that "jaisi karni waisi bharni", "jo sopo wohi ropo" etc. If we move above our personal "instincts" with our "conscious" efforts we can change destiny. It is very much possible and history stands as evidence. Even the source of the science u r talking about Inderji, the source of jyotish and all the roots of the root, the creater, Brahma HIMSELF predicted and knew that Savitri's husband would die. How did Savitri bring back her husband from the dead?? CAN ASTROLOGY EXPLAIN THIS???? Destiny is Man's Own Work Replicated in Future.....I believe in this... Regards Souvik , "indervohra2001" <indervohra2001> wrote: > Dear , > My vies are: > Baser Instincts are also part of the Supreme conciousness. > > It is not possible to manipulate the destiny . > > Anyway, this debate on destiny versus freewill is nevrending and can > not be resolved with our exiting concept/knowledge ot Time and > Conciousness. > > What I was telling in the begning was that Planets donot influence > our destiny, but they only indicate destiny. Like a watch only > indicates time but doesnot control time. > > Inder > > -- In , "OM" <explore_vulcan> > wrote: > > Yes Inderji, > > > > This is the whole concept of Hinduism. The Purush and the Prakrit. > > Can the Purush manipulate Prakrit? Can we rule over our most > obvious > > instincts? Well, that is what meditation, tapas, controlled life > and > > civilization tells us about. > > > > Yes, I believe it is possible. But it is difficult. This > explanation > > is above and beyond astrology. The person or individual rises > above > > the control of mere instincts and attains bliss or enlightenment. > > > > Have anyone seen the horoscope of Swamiji (Vivenkanda, Narendra > Nath > > Dutta). If someone has then he would know that there is no > > astrological evidence of his early death at the age of 33 yrs. > People > > rise above instincts and control them. This is where people > > become "Jeetendra", the controller of Instincts. > > > > Yes, one can take different forms. There are lots of evidence of > this > > in Indian texts. The same Vishnu was Narasimha and Raam. Valmiki, > a > > dacoit became an esteemed Rishi. We can change our instincts and > take > > the attributes of any abstract planet. > > > > This is about the eternal conquest between the baser "instincts" > and > > supreme "consciousness". > > > > This is my belief. > > > > Regards > > > > Souvik > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > Dear Sauvik, > > > Suppose I make concious efforts to become cofortable with > > > Jupitarian ,it could also happen that I can become Jupiter by > the > > > same more efforts.Is it possible? Or say can become Neptunian by > > > some different efforts. Can I control like this.? > > > Inder > > > > > > -- In , "OM" > <explore_vulcan> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Inderji, > > > > > > > > If u r mercury: Please let me explain this part... > > > > > > > > By this I meant that u (and I as well as everybody) as a Lagna > > and > > > 9 > > > > planets. This is a fact. However, there comes out (we can > deduce) > > > one > > > > such entity (a planet) which is predominant in us in all > > > > circumstances. No, this deduction is not simple. I agree on > this. > > > > But, once we know the basic abstraction of character of the > > person > > > > (represented by the qualities of a SINGLE planet) we can know > > > about > > > > his/her predominant instincts. This does NOT mean that we > > > > underestimate his other characteristics, this just means that > a > > > > predominant part of his character is represented by one..but > > > ofcourse > > > > their can be other traits in his character..but these cannot > in > > > > totality explain the person. This is just like one coalition > > party > > > > winning the elections...all the allies are imporatnt but only > 1 > > > (has > > > > to) predominate. > > > > > > > > Yes, now if u are ultimately Mercury, u "instinctly" would be > > > > uncomfortable with one representing "Jupiter" and "Mars". > > However, > > > > this doesnot mean that u can never go along with them. By > making > > > > a "conscious" effort you have to activate the "Jupiter" in u > to > > > adapt > > > > to their view-point. This is a difficult task. This is > mentioned > > > in > > > > all religious texts..to control ones instincts...I have not > given > > > any > > > > new concept but just a different angle to it on the earthly > plane. > > > > > > > > Again, I would like to answer ur very valid question. > > > > Is it so simple ? > > > > No, it is NOT. But the task that is difficult is to determine > the > > > > most predominant character , qualities, attributes of the > person > > > and > > > > map it to a planet. The theory after that is SIMPLE. > > > > > > > > Please do let me know ur views. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > Dear Sauvik, > > > > > You mean to say one person can be represented by one of the > 9 > > or > > > 10 > > > > > planets which we know ? > > > > > > > > > > If I am Mercury , I would be uncofortable with One > representing > > > > > Jupiter or Mars ? > > > > > Is it so simple ? > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > , "OM" > > > <explore_vulcan> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Inderji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the popoulation shoots up to 1 zelion , we would > > map > > > to > > > > > > these 9 planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the question is that each of us have 10 planets > > > (including > > > > > the > > > > > > Lagna). The work of one ahould be to know the most > dominant > > > > planet > > > > > in > > > > > > the horoscope. However, their are all the 9 parts > > > (corresponding > > > > > with > > > > > > 9 planets) in each of us. However, as an abstraction we > need > > > to > > > > > find > > > > > > who we are. > > > > > > > > > > > > e.g. Inderji, if u r Buddh, u would be friends with > Saturn, > > > > Venus, > > > > > > Rahu etc. These are the ppl who u would feel comfortable > with > > > and > > > > > > would love the company of. This is ur instinctive nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, if u are forced to spend a day with Jup, u would > > find > > > it > > > > > > difficult, as it would be against ur "instinct" but u > still > > > can > > > > > b'coz > > > > > > u have Jup somewhere in ur chart. This would be > > ur "conscious" > > > > > effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > Inderji this was just an example. Please donot take this > > > example > > > > > > seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I meant to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, one can be Mars, Rahu or anything for that matter. > Yes, > > > his > > > > > Mars > > > > > > can be under influence of Rahu but that is a different > story. > > > > This > > > > > > doesnot change his "instincts". > > > > > > > > > > > > I would explain in more detail in another mail... > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Sauvik, > > > > > > > If we are the planets then we are 6 billions planets on > > this > > > > > earth? > > > > > > > What about your Mars or Rahu etc. > > > > > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , "OM" > > > > > <explore_vulcan> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A great discussion topic Inderji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My views: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel that we are the planets . Each of us in our own > > way > > > > are > > > > > > > > planets personified. We feel comfortable in certain > > places > > > > and > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > irritated in others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to me, destiny or future is a result of > karma > > > done > > > > > > > today. > > > > > > > > Since, we interact with each other in ways. We mould > our > > > > today > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > thus mould our destiny. This means "we" (planets) > mould > > > our > > > > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > However, our reactions, feelings, instincts etc. are > > > gained > > > > so > > > > > > > > predictable and thus we may say that > > going "instinctively" > > > > our > > > > > > > > destinies are not goverened by us. However, > > > > > going "consciously", > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > can mould our destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "indervohra2001" > > > > > > > > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear friend, > > > > > > > > > I start a new type of discussion here. > > > > > > > > > I donot talk here on freewill versus destiny-- a > debate > > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > ever inconclusive. > > > > > > > > > I have following ideas about planets and astrology: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Planets are not influencing our destiny in any way > but > > > they > > > > > are > > > > > > > > part > > > > > > > > > of the same destiny as we are. Planets move in a > > > > predestined > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > fixed manner. As our destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Planetary position can be interpreted in astrology > as > > > > future > > > > > > > > > indications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A watch does not control time ,it only indicates > Time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sameway planets can only indicate destiny and donot > > > control > > > > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you say dear.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More on this as you comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inder ______________________ ______________________ ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ ------ ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Rajeev, That was impressive stuff ... thanks ! --- Rajeev Tadepalli <Rajeev.Tadepalli wrote: > Hey Souvik, > In this regard there was very nice explanation > given by Sri > Ramakrishna in the Gospel by M. > Am indicating this here because you are from the > land of Sri > Ramakrishna. > > Around 1850's there used to be a popular idea about > a cow tied with > a rope to a pole, in Bengal. > > So people intrepreted that with in the circle of > whose radius is the > rope, the cow had free will. > Beyond the ropes length it is destiny. > > Ramakrishna told to Mahendranath that it is a very > bad explanation. > > In Sri Ramakrishna's personal opinion, every thing > is destined. (As > far as my understanding goes.) > > Why does he feel so ? > > He has submitted his will to the lord? > > People can read this anectode from Sri > Ramakrishna's biography of M. > > Even Mother Theresa, > > (Oh! God you are making me speak about the > enlightened personalities who pervaded your mother > land !) > > Thought that she is just a mere pencil in the > hand's for god. She > thought every thing happening out of his will. > > > > Now we go and interview Narendranath alias > Vivekananda, he say every > thing is because of his will > > Destinity is bull shit. > > > > Is it Jnana vs Bhakti................ > > > On the extremes both are approved views. > > > Mortals like us are in between points on the scale. > We have to move > to one or the other end. > > For me there is no debate on Freewill and Destiny. > > It is not a topic of debate at all. > > Let what ever ought to happen happen by destiny! > > We have the freewill not to identify with what is > happening and come > out of the wheel of Karma !! > > It is our free will that breaks the cycle of > destiny. > > Develop dispassion, tyaga and disassociate emotions > with actions. > That is free will. > > Destiny will only exhaust out and the soul will > triumph !! > > > > > OM TAT SAT > > > > > [] > Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:30 PM > > Digest Number 442 > > > > There is 1 message in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. To Inderji: Man the ruler of his own > Destiny: From Souvik > "OM" <explore_vulcan > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:10:33 -0000 > "OM" <explore_vulcan > To Inderji: Man the ruler of his own > Destiny: From Souvik > > Yes, Inderji..I understand ur point. In the level u > r talking, we can > root to only The ONE... > Ekam advaitam > Yes, this is true but it was HIS will to create many > from one... > Ekam anekam > Thank God he did so otherwise how could we discuss > these topics on > the group :) > IT would be Souvik to Souvik or Inderji to > Inderji...as we would be > ONE... > > I feel let us mortals see things in the view of > natural instincts and > supreme consciousness as separate entities...atleast > for naives like > me, I find it easier > > I believe and strongly stick to my conventions that > destiny is > decided by the deeds we do today. This is replicated > in the age old > saying that "jaisi karni waisi bharni", "jo sopo > wohi ropo" etc. > > If we move above our personal "instincts" with our > "conscious" > efforts we can change destiny. It is very much > possible and history > stands as evidence. > > Even the source of the science u r talking about > Inderji, the source > of jyotish and all the roots of the root, the > creater, Brahma HIMSELF > predicted and knew that Savitri's husband would die. > How did Savitri > bring back her husband from the dead?? CAN ASTROLOGY > EXPLAIN THIS???? > > > Destiny is Man's Own Work Replicated in Future.....I > believe in > this... > > Regards > > Souvik > > , > "indervohra2001" > <indervohra2001> wrote: > > Dear , > > My vies are: > > Baser Instincts are also part of the Supreme > conciousness. > > > > It is not possible to manipulate the destiny . > > > > Anyway, this debate on destiny versus freewill is > nevrending and > can > > not be resolved with our exiting concept/knowledge > ot Time and > > Conciousness. > > > > What I was telling in the begning was that Planets > donot influence > > our destiny, but they only indicate destiny. Like > a watch only > > indicates time but doesnot control time. > > > > Inder > > > > -- In , "OM" > <explore_vulcan> > > wrote: > > > Yes Inderji, > > > > > > This is the whole concept of Hinduism. The > Purush and the > Prakrit. > > > Can the Purush manipulate Prakrit? Can we rule > over our most > > obvious > === message truncated === Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ ph/print_splash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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