Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I have certain interesting clarifications to ask and I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw light. I have been debating with these things for last few days: 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's fate? What governs the life after marriage? 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it is not good as per the horoscope analysis? Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - in 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and I was advised that I can never go back to USA no matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with Rahu Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I had put my heart and soul into coming back and I achedived it, I am now in USA? (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: 9:10 AM). 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope chart or chalit? In chalit, my planents change positions by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit is more accurate? I will appreciate some clarifications from gurus. Regards Sanjay Chadha SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear Sanjay, I really am not qualified to talk about astrology because I am in the very initial stages or learning .. However I would love to share an intersting discussion I had with a very good astrologer when i queried him about astrology as being inevitable. He told me thus: "Planets dont decide the out come of a particular event, they only influence it. Our own Karma of the past decides the outcome. At any given point of time planets indicate the experiences that we should undergo for the soul to mature. Unless it's a vipareet karma, it can be avoided." Even I would like to know how a spouses or relatives and firends individual horoscopes effect our own horoscopes. Thanks, Surya. --- Sanjay Chadha <chadhatony wrote: > Dear All: > > I have certain interesting clarifications to ask and > I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw light. I > have been debating with these things for last few > days: > > 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's fate? > What governs the life after marriage? > > 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it is > not good as per the horoscope analysis? > > Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - in > 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and I > was advised that I can never go back to USA no > matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with Rahu > Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was > true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus > antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I had > put my heart and soul into coming back and I > achedived it, I am now in USA? > (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: > 9:10 AM). > > 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope chart > or chalit? In chalit, my planents change positions > by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit is > more accurate? > > I will appreciate some clarifications from gurus. > > Regards > > Sanjay Chadha > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > Try it! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear Surya, Sorry to butt in, but I agree with what your astrologer told you. The planets are only indicators of what destiny has is store for you; they are not the cause of your destiny. The cause of your destiny is your own past karmas. This is something like saying that when the hands of my watch indicate 2:00 pm, it is time for lunch. My stomach also feels hungry by that time. But if someone intentionally sets my watch to indicate 2:00pm ( when actually it maybe only 11:30 am), it will not cause my stomach to growl with hunger :-). The hands of my watch simply indicate lunchtime, but they do not cause me to feel hungry! That is the reason, trying to strengthen or weaken planets, is an exercise in futility - somewhat akin to putting forward ( or backwards ), the hands of my watch ! The only thing we can do to improve our lot is to do positive Karma, and pray- not to the planets, but to the creator, who not only created us and our destinies, but also the planets! With regards. Deepak Nair surya vishnubhotla [surya_prakashv] Monday, February 02, 2004 3:01 PM Re: Request for some clarifications! Dear Sanjay, I really am not qualified to talk about astrology because I am in the very initial stages or learning .. However I would love to share an intersting discussion I had with a very good astrologer when i queried him about astrology as being inevitable. He told me thus: "Planets dont decide the out come of a particular event, they only influence it. Our own Karma of the past decides the outcome. At any given point of time planets indicate the experiences that we should undergo for the soul to mature. Unless it's a vipareet karma, it can be avoided." Even I would like to know how a spouses or relatives and firends individual horoscopes effect our own horoscopes. Thanks, Surya. --- Sanjay Chadha <chadhatony wrote: > Dear All: > > I have certain interesting clarifications to ask and > I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw light. I > have been debating with these things for last few > days: > > 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's fate? > What governs the life after marriage? > > 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it is > not good as per the horoscope analysis? > > Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - in > 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and I > was advised that I can never go back to USA no > matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with Rahu > Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was > true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus > antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I had > put my heart and soul into coming back and I > achedived it, I am now in USA? > (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: > 9:10 AM). > > 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope chart > or chalit? In chalit, my planents change positions > by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit is > more accurate? > > I will appreciate some clarifications from gurus. > > Regards > > Sanjay Chadha > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > Try it! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Deepak, I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think praying to planets is not wrong although parying to the creator is of greater value in long run. Personally I feel that planets that are debilitated indicate the challenges we should meet in our life times ... and pacifying them would indicate lesser challenges and hence more availability for other things in life ... like it's a big ask for a person who cant manage a square meal to sit and pray (although there have been people who have done just that) ... and he would certainly feel hungry even if it's not lunch time ... just kidding In a way if Karma is a theory then astrology is a proof of it's existance Surya. --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > Sorry to butt in, but I agree with what your > astrologer told you. > > The planets are only indicators of what destiny has > is store for you; > they are not the cause of your destiny. The cause of > your destiny is > your own past karmas. > > This is something like saying that when the hands of > my watch indicate > 2:00 pm, it is time for lunch. My stomach also feels > hungry by that > time. But if someone intentionally sets my watch to > indicate 2:00pm ( > when actually it maybe only 11:30 am), it will not > cause my stomach to > growl with hunger :-). > The hands of my watch simply indicate lunchtime, but > they do not cause > me to feel hungry! > > That is the reason, trying to strengthen or weaken > planets, is an > exercise in futility - somewhat akin to putting > forward ( or backwards > ), the hands of my watch ! The only thing we can do > to improve our lot > is to do positive Karma, and pray- not to the > planets, but to the > creator, who not only created us and our destinies, > but also the > planets! > > With regards. > > Deepak Nair > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:01 PM > > Re: Request for some clarifications! > > Dear Sanjay, > > I really am not qualified to talk about astrology > because I am in the very initial stages or learning > .. > > However I would love to share an intersting > discussion > I had with a very good astrologer when i queried him > about astrology as being inevitable. > > He told me thus: "Planets dont decide the out come > of > a particular event, they only influence it. Our own > Karma of the past decides the outcome. At any given > point of time planets indicate the experiences that > we > should undergo for the soul to mature. Unless it's a > vipareet karma, it can be avoided." > > Even I would like to know how a spouses or relatives > and firends individual horoscopes effect our own > horoscopes. > > Thanks, > Surya. > > --- Sanjay Chadha <chadhatony wrote: > > Dear All: > > > > I have certain interesting clarifications to ask > and > > I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw light. > I > > have been debating with these things for last few > > days: > > > > 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's > fate? > > What governs the life after marriage? > > > > 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it is > > not good as per the horoscope analysis? > > > > Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - > in > > 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and I > > was advised that I can never go back to USA no > > matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with > Rahu > > Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was > > true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus > > antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I had > > put my heart and soul into coming back and I > > achedived it, I am now in USA? > > (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: > > 9:10 AM). > > > > 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope chart > > or chalit? In chalit, my planents change positions > > by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit is > > more accurate? > > > > I will appreciate some clarifications from gurus. > > > > Regards > > > > Sanjay Chadha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > > Try it! > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > Try it! > http://webhosting./ps/sb/ > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Your > > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear Surya, You said it ! debilitated planets INDICATE the challenges we have to meet in life. By virtue of their debilitation, these planets are merely indicating that you will have challenges to meet. They have not caused it. They are NOT CAPABLE of causing it ! Praying to the planets will be of no use. (It's a different story that what you think is a prayer to the planets may in reality be invoking the gods to help you with your challenges ). If you are hungry, and have no food, you will have to do karma ( be it working, stealing, or even begging ) for food. Or you can pray for deliverance. In this case food may be made available to you (in return for work, stealing or begging ). The essence is that only the agency causing a situation can heal the situation. The poor planets are not the cause of the situations in our lives, so they have no power to ease the situations either. Take care. Deepak Nair surya vishnubhotla [surya_prakashv] Monday, February 02, 2004 3:55 PM RE: Request for some clarifications! Deepak, I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think praying to planets is not wrong although parying to the creator is of greater value in long run. Personally I feel that planets that are debilitated indicate the challenges we should meet in our life times ... and pacifying them would indicate lesser challenges and hence more availability for other things in life ... like it's a big ask for a person who cant manage a square meal to sit and pray (although there have been people who have done just that) ... and he would certainly feel hungry even if it's not lunch time ... just kidding In a way if Karma is a theory then astrology is a proof of it's existance Surya. --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > Sorry to butt in, but I agree with what your > astrologer told you. > > The planets are only indicators of what destiny has > is store for you; > they are not the cause of your destiny. The cause of > your destiny is > your own past karmas. > > This is something like saying that when the hands of > my watch indicate > 2:00 pm, it is time for lunch. My stomach also feels > hungry by that > time. But if someone intentionally sets my watch to > indicate 2:00pm ( > when actually it maybe only 11:30 am), it will not > cause my stomach to > growl with hunger :-). > The hands of my watch simply indicate lunchtime, but > they do not cause > me to feel hungry! > > That is the reason, trying to strengthen or weaken > planets, is an > exercise in futility - somewhat akin to putting > forward ( or backwards > ), the hands of my watch ! The only thing we can do > to improve our lot > is to do positive Karma, and pray- not to the > planets, but to the > creator, who not only created us and our destinies, > but also the > planets! > > With regards. > > Deepak Nair > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:01 PM > > Re: Request for some clarifications! > > Dear Sanjay, > > I really am not qualified to talk about astrology > because I am in the very initial stages or learning > .. > > However I would love to share an intersting > discussion > I had with a very good astrologer when i queried him > about astrology as being inevitable. > > He told me thus: "Planets dont decide the out come > of > a particular event, they only influence it. Our own > Karma of the past decides the outcome. At any given > point of time planets indicate the experiences that > we > should undergo for the soul to mature. Unless it's a > vipareet karma, it can be avoided." > > Even I would like to know how a spouses or relatives > and firends individual horoscopes effect our own > horoscopes. > > Thanks, > Surya. > > --- Sanjay Chadha <chadhatony wrote: > > Dear All: > > > > I have certain interesting clarifications to ask > and > > I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw light. > I > > have been debating with these things for last few > > days: > > > > 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's > fate? > > What governs the life after marriage? > > > > 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it is > > not good as per the horoscope analysis? > > > > Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - > in > > 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and I > > was advised that I can never go back to USA no > > matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with > Rahu > > Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was > > true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus > > antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I had > > put my heart and soul into coming back and I > > achedived it, I am now in USA? > > (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: > > 9:10 AM). > > > > 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope chart > > or chalit? In chalit, my planents change positions > > by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit is > > more accurate? > > > > I will appreciate some clarifications from gurus. > > > > Regards > > > > Sanjay Chadha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > > Try it! > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > Try it! > http://webhosting./ps/sb/ > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Your > > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Hey Deepak, It was an interesting post ... liked reading it too .. because at different points of time we cant help by ponder over these things as we attempt to learn astrology ... There are a few things I would like to say: there are two ways of looking at astrology: a) as a statistical science where a repeated event that happens when a certain planet happens to be in a certain zodiac or so on ... b) A intutive science where the issues is much deeper than just planets .. the problem with first approach is that it dosent expalin half of how astrology works ...for example i) Why should the lord of Virgo and gemini be Mercury and not som eother planet?? ii) How can we make sense in something like having a 10 year moon dasa when moon actually rotates around earth in a 24 hour span?? Here the approach of seeing it as a coincidence of events with stars fails ... To expalin these we have to accept that these were principles laid down based more on intution by the seers who have invented it ... Now when we accept that ... it becomes imperetive that we also accept the other part of what they have said that of pleasing planets with remedies also to be true ... because if one part comes from divine intution we cant question the other part ... I think the issue here is deeper than just planets ... As you have pointed out .. one way of looking at it is that the mantras and the remedies are actually meant for some deties or demi gods who are supposed to represent the planets on a symbolic level ... and by appeasing them we can get rid of the effects of a particular karma partially ... Let's leave the example of hunger because I can make ridiculous situations to prove my point which will be silly to do I tend to agree with you that the problem is with the agency and planets are a outer manifestation of a deep working principle ... I sometimes wonder (my musings ) that great seers saw life on a intutive level and have laid down principles for others to ponder with intellect and understand what lies deeper It will be interesting to know if anyone has any thoughts on this ??? Surya. --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > You said it ! debilitated planets INDICATE the > challenges we have to > meet in life. By virtue of their debilitation, these > planets are merely > indicating that you will have challenges to meet. > They have not caused > it. They are NOT CAPABLE of causing it ! Praying to > the planets will be > of no use. (It's a different story that what you > think is a prayer to > the planets may in reality be invoking the gods to > help you with your > challenges ). > > If you are hungry, and have no food, you will have > to do karma ( be it > working, stealing, or even begging ) for food. Or > you can pray for > deliverance. In this case food may be made available > to you (in return > for work, stealing or begging ). > > The essence is that only the agency causing a > situation can heal the > situation. The poor planets are not the cause of the > situations in our > lives, so they have no power to ease the situations > either. > > Take care. > > Deepak Nair > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:55 PM > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > Deepak, > > I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think > praying to planets is not wrong although parying to > the creator is of greater value in long run. > > Personally I feel that planets that are debilitated > indicate the challenges we should meet in our life > times ... and pacifying them would indicate lesser > challenges and hence more availability for other > things in life ... > like it's a big ask for a person who cant manage a > square meal to sit and pray (although there have > been > people who have done just that) ... and he would > certainly feel hungry even if it's not lunch time > ... > just kidding > > In a way if Karma is a theory then astrology is a > proof of it's existance > > Surya. > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > Dear Surya, > > > > Sorry to butt in, but I agree with what your > > astrologer told you. > > > > The planets are only indicators of what destiny > has > > is store for you; > > they are not the cause of your destiny. The cause > of > > your destiny is > > your own past karmas. > > > > This is something like saying that when the hands > of > > my watch indicate > > 2:00 pm, it is time for lunch. My stomach also > feels > > hungry by that > > time. But if someone intentionally sets my watch > to > > indicate 2:00pm ( > > when actually it maybe only 11:30 am), it will not > > cause my stomach to > > growl with hunger :-). > > The hands of my watch simply indicate lunchtime, > but > > they do not cause > > me to feel hungry! > > > > That is the reason, trying to strengthen or weaken > > planets, is an > > exercise in futility - somewhat akin to putting > > forward ( or backwards > > ), the hands of my watch ! The only thing we can > do > > to improve our lot > > is to do positive Karma, and pray- not to the > > planets, but to the > > creator, who not only created us and our > destinies, > > but also the > > planets! > > > > With regards. > > > > Deepak Nair > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > [surya_prakashv] > > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:01 PM > > > > Re: Request for some clarifications! > > > > Dear Sanjay, > > > > I really am not qualified to talk about astrology > > because I am in the very initial stages or > learning > > .. > > > > However I would love to share an intersting > > discussion > > I had with a very good astrologer when i queried > him > > about astrology as being inevitable. > > > > He told me thus: "Planets dont decide the out come > > of > > a particular event, they only influence it. Our > own > > Karma of the past decides the outcome. At any > given > > point of time planets indicate the experiences > that > > we > > should undergo for the soul to mature. Unless it's > a > > vipareet karma, it can be avoided." > > > > Even I would like to know how a spouses or > relatives > > and firends individual horoscopes effect our own > > horoscopes. > > > > Thanks, > > Surya. > > > > --- Sanjay Chadha <chadhatony wrote: > > > Dear All: > > > > > > I have certain interesting clarifications to ask > > and > > > I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw > light. > > I > > > have been debating with these things for last > few > > > days: > > > > > > 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's > > fate? > > > What governs the life after marriage? > > > > > > 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it > is > > > not good as per the horoscope analysis? > > > > > > Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - > > in > > > 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and > I > > > was advised that I can never go back to USA no > > > matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with > > Rahu > > > Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was > > > true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus > > > antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I > had > > > put my heart and soul into coming back and I > > > achedived it, I am now in USA? > > > (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: > > > 9:10 AM). > > > > > > 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope > chart > > > or chalit? In chalit, my planents change > positions > > > by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit > is > > > more accurate? > > > > > > I will appreciate some clarifications from > gurus. > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear All, I hope you don't mind me answering this request for thoughts on the subject under discussion. The planets, as we experience them in astrology, are not meant to be taken on a literal level but are symbols...that is they point to a truth beyond their obvious meaning... Hence I have been able to give accurate spiritual/emotional/psychological chart readings for over thirty years, even though the zodiacal point western astrology is based on has now shifted. Similarly I can now, as a student of Jyotish, begin to make accurate readings of a more event-specific nature based on Vedic astrology. As to using remedial measures: in my opinion karma has to be balanced by the self, not by wearing a gem to neutralise it - there aint no such thing as a free lunch. However, just as we might take some form of medicine, perhaps even a natural remedy, to boost the immune system and help the body fight infection, so we might use a gem to boost our spiritual immune system. In either case we do the healing for ourselves, but we are accepting some form of help to do so. Blessings, Flick. Author website: http://www.witchcraft.org/elenhawke.htm On 2/2/04 3:46 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" <surya_prakashv wrote: > Hey Deepak, > > It was an interesting post ... liked reading it too .. > because at different points of time we cant help by > ponder over these things as we attempt to learn > astrology ... > > There are a few things I would like to say: > there are two ways of looking at astrology: > a) as a statistical science where a repeated event > that happens when a certain planet happens to be in a > certain zodiac or so on ... > > b) A intutive science where the issues is much deeper > than just planets .. > > the problem with first approach is that it dosent > expalin half of how astrology works ...for example > i) Why should the lord of Virgo and gemini be Mercury > and not som eother planet?? > ii) How can we make sense in something like having a > 10 year moon dasa when moon actually rotates around > earth in a 24 hour span?? > Here the approach of seeing it as a coincidence of > events with stars fails ... > > To expalin these we have to accept that these were > principles laid down based more on intution by the > seers who have invented it ... > > Now when we accept that ... it becomes imperetive that > we also accept the other part of what they have said > that of pleasing planets with remedies also to be true > .. because if one part comes from divine intution we > cant question the other part ... > > I think the issue here is deeper than just planets ... > As you have pointed out .. one way of looking at it is > that the mantras and the remedies are actually meant > for some deties or demi gods who are supposed to > represent the planets on a symbolic level ... and by > appeasing them we can get rid of the effects of a > particular karma partially ... > > Let's leave the example of hunger because I can make > ridiculous situations to prove my point which will be > silly to do > > I tend to agree with you that the problem is with the > agency and planets are a outer manifestation of a deep > working principle ... > > I sometimes wonder (my musings ) that great seers > saw life on a intutive level and have laid down > principles for others to ponder with intellect and > understand what lies deeper > > It will be interesting to know if anyone has any > thoughts on this ??? > > Surya. > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >> Dear Surya, >> >> You said it ! debilitated planets INDICATE the >> challenges we have to >> meet in life. By virtue of their debilitation, these >> planets are merely >> indicating that you will have challenges to meet. >> They have not caused >> it. They are NOT CAPABLE of causing it ! Praying to >> the planets will be >> of no use. (It's a different story that what you >> think is a prayer to >> the planets may in reality be invoking the gods to >> help you with your >> challenges ). >> >> If you are hungry, and have no food, you will have >> to do karma ( be it >> working, stealing, or even begging ) for food. Or >> you can pray for >> deliverance. In this case food may be made available >> to you (in return >> for work, stealing or begging ). >> >> The essence is that only the agency causing a >> situation can heal the >> situation. The poor planets are not the cause of the >> situations in our >> lives, so they have no power to ease the situations >> either. >> >> Take care. >> >> Deepak Nair >> >> >> surya vishnubhotla >> [surya_prakashv] >> Monday, February 02, 2004 3:55 PM >> >> RE: Request for some clarifications! >> >> Deepak, >> >> I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think >> praying to planets is not wrong although parying to >> the creator is of greater value in long run. >> >> Personally I feel that planets that are debilitated >> indicate the challenges we should meet in our life >> times ... and pacifying them would indicate lesser >> challenges and hence more availability for other >> things in life ... >> like it's a big ask for a person who cant manage a >> square meal to sit and pray (although there have >> been >> people who have done just that) ... and he would >> certainly feel hungry even if it's not lunch time >> ... >> just kidding >> >> In a way if Karma is a theory then astrology is a >> proof of it's existance >> >> Surya. >> >> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >>> Dear Surya, >>> >>> Sorry to butt in, but I agree with what your >>> astrologer told you. >>> >>> The planets are only indicators of what destiny >> has >>> is store for you; >>> they are not the cause of your destiny. The cause >> of >>> your destiny is >>> your own past karmas. >>> >>> This is something like saying that when the hands >> of >>> my watch indicate >>> 2:00 pm, it is time for lunch. My stomach also >> feels >>> hungry by that >>> time. But if someone intentionally sets my watch >> to >>> indicate 2:00pm ( >>> when actually it maybe only 11:30 am), it will not >>> cause my stomach to >>> growl with hunger :-). >>> The hands of my watch simply indicate lunchtime, >> but >>> they do not cause >>> me to feel hungry! >>> >>> That is the reason, trying to strengthen or weaken >>> planets, is an >>> exercise in futility - somewhat akin to putting >>> forward ( or backwards >>> ), the hands of my watch ! The only thing we can >> do >>> to improve our lot >>> is to do positive Karma, and pray- not to the >>> planets, but to the >>> creator, who not only created us and our >> destinies, >>> but also the >>> planets! >>> >>> With regards. >>> >>> Deepak Nair >>> >>> >>> surya vishnubhotla >>> [surya_prakashv] >>> Monday, February 02, 2004 3:01 PM >>> >>> Re: Request for some clarifications! >>> >>> Dear Sanjay, >>> >>> I really am not qualified to talk about astrology >>> because I am in the very initial stages or >> learning >>> .. >>> >>> However I would love to share an intersting >>> discussion >>> I had with a very good astrologer when i queried >> him >>> about astrology as being inevitable. >>> >>> He told me thus: "Planets dont decide the out come >>> of >>> a particular event, they only influence it. Our >> own >>> Karma of the past decides the outcome. At any >> given >>> point of time planets indicate the experiences >> that >>> we >>> should undergo for the soul to mature. Unless it's >> a >>> vipareet karma, it can be avoided." >>> >>> Even I would like to know how a spouses or >> relatives >>> and firends individual horoscopes effect our own >>> horoscopes. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Surya. >>> >>> --- Sanjay Chadha <chadhatony wrote: >>>> Dear All: >>>> >>>> I have certain interesting clarifications to ask >>> and >>>> I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw >> light. >>> I >>>> have been debating with these things for last >> few >>>> days: >>>> >>>> 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's >>> fate? >>>> What governs the life after marriage? >>>> >>>> 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it >> is >>>> not good as per the horoscope analysis? >>>> >>>> Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - >>> in >>>> 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and >> I >>>> was advised that I can never go back to USA no >>>> matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with >>> Rahu >>>> Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was >>>> true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus >>>> antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I >> had >>>> put my heart and soul into coming back and I >>>> achedived it, I am now in USA? >>>> (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: >>>> 9:10 AM). >>>> >>>> 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope >> chart >>>> or chalit? In chalit, my planents change >> positions >>>> by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit >> is >>>> more accurate? >>>> >>>> I will appreciate some clarifications from >> gurus. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 , Flick <rubysun@n...> wrote: > Dear All, > As to using remedial measures: in my opinion karma has to be balanced by the > self, not by wearing a gem to neutralise it - there aint no such thing as a > free lunch. However, just as we might take some form of medicine, perhaps > even a natural remedy, to boost the immune system and help the body fight > infection, so we might use a gem to boost our spiritual immune system. In > either case we do the healing for ourselves, but we are accepting some form > of help to do so. > > Someone once asked a Zen master if he could move a teacup across a table using his mind. The master took a formal position, glared at the teacup for a moment, and then moved it with his hand. If you can move a teacup with your hand, you can move your karma with a gem. But it is not limited to gems, mantras, or traditional ideas. Blessed Be Dharmananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I thank you all for your emails on these clarifications. I feel that for Pt 2 most of us agree that ultimately its the Karma is important (past and future) and prayers to planets can help in certain ways, however one really needs to work hard to acheive what he wants in life. Planets are just indicators of circumstances. I will appreciate your responses to Pt 1 (about other family's horoscopes impact on our life) and also clarification on chalit vs. rashi chart vs. Moon chart. Which is more accurate. Thanks for your patience. Regards Sanjay ChadhaNote: forwarded message attached. SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! Sanjay Chadha chadhatony Mailing-List: list ; contact -owner Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:45:04 -0800 (PST) Request for some clarifications! Dear All: I have certain interesting clarifications to ask and I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw light. I have been debating with these things for last few days: 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's fate? What governs the life after marriage? 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it is not good as per the horoscope analysis? Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - in 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and I was advised that I can never go back to USA no matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with Rahu Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I had put my heart and soul into coming back and I achedived it, I am now in USA? (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: 9:10 AM). 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope chart or chalit? In chalit, my planents change positions by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit is more accurate? I will appreciate some clarifications from gurus. Regards Sanjay Chadha SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear Surya, Astrology is definitely a science, and like all other sciences, it is based on observation - observation of the position of planets at the time of a native's birth. It has been put to test and has met the criteria of repeatability and predictability. Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to say that Astrology was "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors of the science. Their only contribution was that they were receptive to this "revelation" and they later put everything on record, or ascertained that it was put on record. The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that it has been recorded in a cryptic language, and all good astrologers have to have a certain amount of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), to decode and decipher the real meaning of what has been put on record. That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury rules Gemini & Virgo, etc. Why the royal planets like the Sun and Moon have rulership over only one sign, while the other lesser planets get to rule two signs each. And why, oh why, is Venus exalted in Pisces, Mars in Capricorn, and so on..... ? Astrology works, there is no doubt about it, so even while we do not have the logical reasons for many dictums, we accept them and apply them as such. But can we, or should we, accept the so-called rules NOT mentioned in the classics, but generally quoted by astrologers today ? Kaal Sarpa Yoga is one such thing, which I feel is a creation of post-vedic times. Nowhere in the Vedas do I find reference to this yoga/dosha. But we discuss it openly in astrology seminars/conferences/lists. The significance of Gems in astrology is another thing that I cannot digest. How on earth can the use of gems enhance the effect of planets, when they themselves are mere indicators and not the causative agents ? Seems we have come a full circle here, so I will sign off. Take care. Deepak N. surya vishnubhotla [surya_prakashv] Monday, February 02, 2004 9:16 PM RE: Request for some clarifications! Hey Deepak, It was an interesting post ... liked reading it too .. because at different points of time we cant help by ponder over these things as we attempt to learn astrology ... There are a few things I would like to say: there are two ways of looking at astrology: a) as a statistical science where a repeated event that happens when a certain planet happens to be in a certain zodiac or so on ... b) A intutive science where the issues is much deeper than just planets .. the problem with first approach is that it dosent expalin half of how astrology works ...for example i) Why should the lord of Virgo and gemini be Mercury and not som eother planet?? ii) How can we make sense in something like having a 10 year moon dasa when moon actually rotates around earth in a 24 hour span?? Here the approach of seeing it as a coincidence of events with stars fails ... To expalin these we have to accept that these were principles laid down based more on intution by the seers who have invented it ... Now when we accept that ... it becomes imperetive that we also accept the other part of what they have said that of pleasing planets with remedies also to be true ... because if one part comes from divine intution we cant question the other part ... I think the issue here is deeper than just planets ... As you have pointed out .. one way of looking at it is that the mantras and the remedies are actually meant for some deties or demi gods who are supposed to represent the planets on a symbolic level ... and by appeasing them we can get rid of the effects of a particular karma partially ... Let's leave the example of hunger because I can make ridiculous situations to prove my point which will be silly to do I tend to agree with you that the problem is with the agency and planets are a outer manifestation of a deep working principle ... I sometimes wonder (my musings ) that great seers saw life on a intutive level and have laid down principles for others to ponder with intellect and understand what lies deeper It will be interesting to know if anyone has any thoughts on this ??? Surya. --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > You said it ! debilitated planets INDICATE the > challenges we have to > meet in life. By virtue of their debilitation, these > planets are merely > indicating that you will have challenges to meet. > They have not caused > it. They are NOT CAPABLE of causing it ! Praying to > the planets will be > of no use. (It's a different story that what you > think is a prayer to > the planets may in reality be invoking the gods to > help you with your > challenges ). > > If you are hungry, and have no food, you will have > to do karma ( be it > working, stealing, or even begging ) for food. Or > you can pray for > deliverance. In this case food may be made available > to you (in return > for work, stealing or begging ). > > The essence is that only the agency causing a > situation can heal the > situation. The poor planets are not the cause of the > situations in our > lives, so they have no power to ease the situations > either. > > Take care. > > Deepak Nair > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:55 PM > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > Deepak, > > I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think > praying to planets is not wrong although parying to > the creator is of greater value in long run. > > Personally I feel that planets that are debilitated > indicate the challenges we should meet in our life > times ... and pacifying them would indicate lesser > challenges and hence more availability for other > things in life ... > like it's a big ask for a person who cant manage a > square meal to sit and pray (although there have > been > people who have done just that) ... and he would > certainly feel hungry even if it's not lunch time > ... > just kidding > > In a way if Karma is a theory then astrology is a > proof of it's existance > > Surya. > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > Dear Surya, > > > > Sorry to butt in, but I agree with what your > > astrologer told you. > > > > The planets are only indicators of what destiny > has > > is store for you; > > they are not the cause of your destiny. The cause > of > > your destiny is > > your own past karmas. > > > > This is something like saying that when the hands > of > > my watch indicate > > 2:00 pm, it is time for lunch. My stomach also > feels > > hungry by that > > time. But if someone intentionally sets my watch > to > > indicate 2:00pm ( > > when actually it maybe only 11:30 am), it will not > > cause my stomach to > > growl with hunger :-). > > The hands of my watch simply indicate lunchtime, > but > > they do not cause > > me to feel hungry! > > > > That is the reason, trying to strengthen or weaken > > planets, is an > > exercise in futility - somewhat akin to putting > > forward ( or backwards > > ), the hands of my watch ! The only thing we can > do > > to improve our lot > > is to do positive Karma, and pray- not to the > > planets, but to the > > creator, who not only created us and our > destinies, > > but also the > > planets! > > > > With regards. > > > > Deepak Nair > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > [surya_prakashv] > > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:01 PM > > > > Re: Request for some clarifications! > > > > Dear Sanjay, > > > > I really am not qualified to talk about astrology > > because I am in the very initial stages or > learning > > .. > > > > However I would love to share an intersting > > discussion > > I had with a very good astrologer when i queried > him > > about astrology as being inevitable. > > > > He told me thus: "Planets dont decide the out come > > of > > a particular event, they only influence it. Our > own > > Karma of the past decides the outcome. At any > given > > point of time planets indicate the experiences > that > > we > > should undergo for the soul to mature. Unless it's > a > > vipareet karma, it can be avoided." > > > > Even I would like to know how a spouses or > relatives > > and firends individual horoscopes effect our own > > horoscopes. > > > > Thanks, > > Surya. > > > > --- Sanjay Chadha <chadhatony wrote: > > > Dear All: > > > > > > I have certain interesting clarifications to ask > > and > > > I will appreciate if gurus can kindly throw > light. > > I > > > have been debating with these things for last > few > > > days: > > > > > > 1] Can a spouse's horoscope change a person's > > fate? > > > What governs the life after marriage? > > > > > > 2] Can hard work change the person's fate if it > is > > > not good as per the horoscope analysis? > > > > > > Why I am asking this - I am an example of this - > > in > > > 1997 Sep I had to go back to India for good and > I > > > was advised that I can never go back to USA no > > > matter what I do. Looking at my chart and with > > Rahu > > > Mahadasha and Rahu in 4th house may be that was > > > true, however I came back in 1998 in Venus > > > antardasha which is Deliberated in my lagna. I > had > > > put my heart and soul into coming back and I > > > achedived it, I am now in USA? > > > (DOB, 22 Aug 1973, Place of Birth, Jaipur, Time: > > > 9:10 AM). > > > > > > 3] Finally, what is more accurate, horoscope > chart > > > or chalit? In chalit, my planents change > positions > > > by 1 house and I was told that sometimes chalit > is > > > more accurate? > > > > > > I will appreciate some clarifications from > gurus. > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear Deepak ... I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively cant be expalined or taught to anyone else to the same degree of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our own with our intutions Thanks for your post ... But I just had a question ... arent you contradicting yourself when you say a) it's a science of observation b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? I mean if it's a science of observation then it's possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in work before the post modern astrologers came in to invent them?? afterall it's a observation that they document?? I am asking this because sometimes I am confused to the extent to which we can subject ourselves to the authority of tradition and dogma ... --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > Astrology is definitely a science, and like all > other sciences, it is > based on observation - observation of the position > of planets at the > time of a native's birth. It has been put to test > and has met the > criteria of repeatability and predictability. > > Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to say > that Astrology was > "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors of > the science. Their > only contribution was that they were receptive to > this "revelation" and > they later put everything on record, or ascertained > that it was put on > record. > > The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that it has > been recorded in a > cryptic language, and all good astrologers have to > have a certain amount > of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), to > decode and decipher > the real meaning of what has been put on record. > > That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury > rules Gemini & Virgo, > etc. Why the royal planets like the Sun and Moon > have rulership over > only one sign, while the other lesser planets get to > rule two signs > each. And why, oh why, is Venus exalted in Pisces, > Mars in Capricorn, > and so on..... ? > > Astrology works, there is no doubt about it, so even > while we do not > have the logical reasons for many dictums, we accept > them and apply them > as such. > But can we, or should we, accept the so-called rules > NOT mentioned in > the classics, but generally quoted by astrologers > today ? Kaal Sarpa > Yoga is one such thing, which I feel is a creation > of post-vedic times. > Nowhere in the Vedas do I find reference to this > yoga/dosha. But we > discuss it openly in astrology > seminars/conferences/lists. The > significance of Gems in astrology is another thing > that I cannot digest. > How on earth can the use of gems enhance the effect > of planets, when > they themselves are mere indicators and not the > causative agents ? Seems > we have come a full circle here, so I will sign off. > > Take care. > > Deepak N. > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Monday, February 02, 2004 9:16 PM > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > Hey Deepak, > > It was an interesting post ... liked reading it too > .. > because at different points of time we cant help by > ponder over these things as we attempt to learn > astrology ... > > There are a few things I would like to say: > there are two ways of looking at astrology: > a) as a statistical science where a repeated event > that happens when a certain planet happens to be in > a > certain zodiac or so on ... > > b) A intutive science where the issues is much > deeper > than just planets .. > > the problem with first approach is that it dosent > expalin half of how astrology works ...for example > i) Why should the lord of Virgo and gemini be > Mercury > and not som eother planet?? > ii) How can we make sense in something like having a > 10 year moon dasa when moon actually rotates around > earth in a 24 hour span?? > Here the approach of seeing it as a coincidence of > events with stars fails ... > > To expalin these we have to accept that these were > principles laid down based more on intution by the > seers who have invented it ... > > Now when we accept that ... it becomes imperetive > that > we also accept the other part of what they have said > that of pleasing planets with remedies also to be > true > .. because if one part comes from divine intution we > cant question the other part ... > > I think the issue here is deeper than just planets > ... > As you have pointed out .. one way of looking at it > is > that the mantras and the remedies are actually meant > for some deties or demi gods who are supposed to > represent the planets on a symbolic level ... and by > appeasing them we can get rid of the effects of a > particular karma partially ... > > Let's leave the example of hunger because I can make > ridiculous situations to prove my point which will > be > silly to do > > I tend to agree with you that the problem is with > the > agency and planets are a outer manifestation of a > deep > working principle ... > > I sometimes wonder (my musings ) that great seers > saw life on a intutive level and have laid down > principles for others to ponder with intellect and > understand what lies deeper > > It will be interesting to know if anyone has any > thoughts on this ??? > > Surya. > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > Dear Surya, > > > > You said it ! debilitated planets INDICATE the > > challenges we have to > > meet in life. By virtue of their debilitation, > these > > planets are merely > > indicating that you will have challenges to meet. > > They have not caused > > it. They are NOT CAPABLE of causing it ! Praying > to > > the planets will be > > of no use. (It's a different story that what you > > think is a prayer to > > the planets may in reality be invoking the gods to > > help you with your > > challenges ). > > > > If you are hungry, and have no food, you will have > > to do karma ( be it > > working, stealing, or even begging ) for food. Or > > you can pray for > > deliverance. In this case food may be made > available > > to you (in return > > for work, stealing or begging ). > > > > The essence is that only the agency causing a > > situation can heal the > > situation. The poor planets are not the cause of > the > > situations in our > > lives, so they have no power to ease the > situations > > either. > > > > Take care. > > > > Deepak Nair > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > [surya_prakashv] > > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:55 PM > > > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > > > Deepak, > > > > I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think > > praying to planets is not wrong although parying > to > > the creator is of greater value in long run. > > > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Dear Surya, Good thinking ! But the fact is that the seers did not do the observations. The scriptures were essentially "revealed" to them. They may, at best have simply seen that the rules mentioned worked perfectly as per their observations - otherwise its next to impossible even for tens of generations to observe and record meticulous details before coming to a concrete conclusion. I hope this helps. Take care. Deepak N. surya vishnubhotla [surya_prakashv] Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:21 PM RE: Request for some clarifications! Dear Deepak ... I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively cant be expalined or taught to anyone else to the same degree of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our own with our intutions Thanks for your post ... But I just had a question ... arent you contradicting yourself when you say a) it's a science of observation b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? I mean if it's a science of observation then it's possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in work before the post modern astrologers came in to invent them?? afterall it's a observation that they document?? I am asking this because sometimes I am confused to the extent to which we can subject ourselves to the authority of tradition and dogma ... --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > Astrology is definitely a science, and like all > other sciences, it is > based on observation - observation of the position > of planets at the > time of a native's birth. It has been put to test > and has met the > criteria of repeatability and predictability. > > Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to say > that Astrology was > "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors of > the science. Their > only contribution was that they were receptive to > this "revelation" and > they later put everything on record, or ascertained > that it was put on > record. > > The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that it has > been recorded in a > cryptic language, and all good astrologers have to > have a certain amount > of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), to > decode and decipher > the real meaning of what has been put on record. > > That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury > rules Gemini & Virgo, > etc. Why the royal planets like the Sun and Moon > have rulership over > only one sign, while the other lesser planets get to > rule two signs > each. And why, oh why, is Venus exalted in Pisces, > Mars in Capricorn, > and so on..... ? > > Astrology works, there is no doubt about it, so even > while we do not > have the logical reasons for many dictums, we accept > them and apply them > as such. > But can we, or should we, accept the so-called rules > NOT mentioned in > the classics, but generally quoted by astrologers > today ? Kaal Sarpa > Yoga is one such thing, which I feel is a creation > of post-vedic times. > Nowhere in the Vedas do I find reference to this > yoga/dosha. But we > discuss it openly in astrology > seminars/conferences/lists. The > significance of Gems in astrology is another thing > that I cannot digest. > How on earth can the use of gems enhance the effect > of planets, when > they themselves are mere indicators and not the > causative agents ? Seems > we have come a full circle here, so I will sign off. > > Take care. > > Deepak N. > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Monday, February 02, 2004 9:16 PM > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > Hey Deepak, > > It was an interesting post ... liked reading it too > .. > because at different points of time we cant help by > ponder over these things as we attempt to learn > astrology ... > > There are a few things I would like to say: > there are two ways of looking at astrology: > a) as a statistical science where a repeated event > that happens when a certain planet happens to be in > a > certain zodiac or so on ... > > b) A intutive science where the issues is much > deeper > than just planets .. > > the problem with first approach is that it dosent > expalin half of how astrology works ...for example > i) Why should the lord of Virgo and gemini be > Mercury > and not som eother planet?? > ii) How can we make sense in something like having a > 10 year moon dasa when moon actually rotates around > earth in a 24 hour span?? > Here the approach of seeing it as a coincidence of > events with stars fails ... > > To expalin these we have to accept that these were > principles laid down based more on intution by the > seers who have invented it ... > > Now when we accept that ... it becomes imperetive > that > we also accept the other part of what they have said > that of pleasing planets with remedies also to be > true > .. because if one part comes from divine intution we > cant question the other part ... > > I think the issue here is deeper than just planets > ... > As you have pointed out .. one way of looking at it > is > that the mantras and the remedies are actually meant > for some deties or demi gods who are supposed to > represent the planets on a symbolic level ... and by > appeasing them we can get rid of the effects of a > particular karma partially ... > > Let's leave the example of hunger because I can make > ridiculous situations to prove my point which will > be > silly to do > > I tend to agree with you that the problem is with > the > agency and planets are a outer manifestation of a > deep > working principle ... > > I sometimes wonder (my musings ) that great seers > saw life on a intutive level and have laid down > principles for others to ponder with intellect and > understand what lies deeper > > It will be interesting to know if anyone has any > thoughts on this ??? > > Surya. > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > Dear Surya, > > > > You said it ! debilitated planets INDICATE the > > challenges we have to > > meet in life. By virtue of their debilitation, > these > > planets are merely > > indicating that you will have challenges to meet. > > They have not caused > > it. They are NOT CAPABLE of causing it ! Praying > to > > the planets will be > > of no use. (It's a different story that what you > > think is a prayer to > > the planets may in reality be invoking the gods to > > help you with your > > challenges ). > > > > If you are hungry, and have no food, you will have > > to do karma ( be it > > working, stealing, or even begging ) for food. Or > > you can pray for > > deliverance. In this case food may be made > available > > to you (in return > > for work, stealing or begging ). > > > > The essence is that only the agency causing a > > situation can heal the > > situation. The poor planets are not the cause of > the > > situations in our > > lives, so they have no power to ease the > situations > > either. > > > > Take care. > > > > Deepak Nair > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > [surya_prakashv] > > Monday, February 02, 2004 3:55 PM > > > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > > > Deepak, > > > > I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think > > praying to planets is not wrong although parying > to > > the creator is of greater value in long run. > > > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Deepak, It is also my belief that the scriptures were essentially revealed to them ... however I just would like to point that for the very same reason Astrology is both a Art and a Science .. science as far as we use logic to apply proven rules and Art when we need to go beyond the set rules to get insight into a situation ... Thanks for the interesting discussion I still dont really understand why gem stones should work ... --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > Good thinking ! But the fact is that the seers did > not do the > observations. The scriptures were essentially > "revealed" to them. They > may, at best have simply seen that the rules > mentioned worked perfectly > as per their observations - otherwise its next to > impossible even for > tens of generations to observe and record meticulous > details before > coming to a concrete conclusion. > > I hope this helps. > > Take care. > > Deepak N. > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:21 PM > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > Dear Deepak ... > > I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively cant be > expalined or taught to anyone else to the same > degree > of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our own > with our intutions > > Thanks for your post ... > > But I just had a question ... arent you > contradicting > yourself when you say a) it's a science of > observation > b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? > I mean if it's a science of observation then it's > possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in > work > before the post modern astrologers came in to invent > them?? afterall it's a observation that they > document?? > > I am asking this because sometimes I am confused to > the extent to which we can subject ourselves to the > authority of tradition and dogma ... > > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > Dear Surya, > > > > Astrology is definitely a science, and like all > > other sciences, it is > > based on observation - observation of the position > > of planets at the > > time of a native's birth. It has been put to test > > and has met the > > criteria of repeatability and predictability. > > > > Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to say > > that Astrology was > > "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors of > > the science. Their > > only contribution was that they were receptive to > > this "revelation" and > > they later put everything on record, or > ascertained > > that it was put on > > record. > > > > The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that it > has > > been recorded in a > > cryptic language, and all good astrologers have to > > have a certain amount > > of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), to > > decode and decipher > > the real meaning of what has been put on record. > > > > That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury > > rules Gemini & Virgo, > > etc. Why the royal planets like the Sun and Moon > > have rulership over > > only one sign, while the other lesser planets get > to > > rule two signs > > each. And why, oh why, is Venus exalted in Pisces, > > Mars in Capricorn, > > and so on..... ? > > > > Astrology works, there is no doubt about it, so > even > > while we do not > > have the logical reasons for many dictums, we > accept > > them and apply them > > as such. > > But can we, or should we, accept the so-called > rules > > NOT mentioned in > > the classics, but generally quoted by astrologers > > today ? Kaal Sarpa > > Yoga is one such thing, which I feel is a creation > > of post-vedic times. > > Nowhere in the Vedas do I find reference to this > > yoga/dosha. But we > > discuss it openly in astrology > > seminars/conferences/lists. The > > significance of Gems in astrology is another thing > > that I cannot digest. > > How on earth can the use of gems enhance the > effect > > of planets, when > > they themselves are mere indicators and not the > > causative agents ? Seems > > we have come a full circle here, so I will sign > off. > > > > Take care. > > > > Deepak N. > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > [surya_prakashv] > > Monday, February 02, 2004 9:16 PM > > > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > > > Hey Deepak, > > > > It was an interesting post ... liked reading it > too > > .. > > because at different points of time we cant help > by > > ponder over these things as we attempt to learn > > astrology ... > > > > There are a few things I would like to say: > > there are two ways of looking at astrology: > > a) as a statistical science where a repeated event > > that happens when a certain planet happens to be > in > > a > > certain zodiac or so on ... > > > > b) A intutive science where the issues is much > > deeper > > than just planets .. > > > > the problem with first approach is that it dosent > > expalin half of how astrology works ...for example > > > i) Why should the lord of Virgo and gemini be > > Mercury > > and not som eother planet?? > > ii) How can we make sense in something like having > a > > 10 year moon dasa when moon actually rotates > around > > earth in a 24 hour span?? > > Here the approach of seeing it as a coincidence of > > events with stars fails ... > > > > To expalin these we have to accept that these were > > principles laid down based more on intution by the > > seers who have invented it ... > > > > Now when we accept that ... it becomes imperetive > > that > > we also accept the other part of what they have > said > > that of pleasing planets with remedies also to be > > true > > .. because if one part comes from divine intution > we > > cant question the other part ... > > > > I think the issue here is deeper than just planets > > ... > > As you have pointed out .. one way of looking at > it > > is > > that the mantras and the remedies are actually > meant > > for some deties or demi gods who are supposed to > > represent the planets on a symbolic level ... and > by > > appeasing them we can get rid of the effects of a > > particular karma partially ... > > > > Let's leave the example of hunger because I can > make > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. 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Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Dear Surya, You mean - they DO work ? Looks like the beginning of another discussion, Ha, Ha ! Deepak N. surya vishnubhotla [surya_prakashv] Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:16 PM RE: Request for some clarifications! Deepak, It is also my belief that the scriptures were essentially revealed to them ... however I just would like to point that for the very same reason Astrology is both a Art and a Science .. science as far as we use logic to apply proven rules and Art when we need to go beyond the set rules to get insight into a situation ... Thanks for the interesting discussion I still dont really understand why gem stones should work ... --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > Good thinking ! But the fact is that the seers did > not do the > observations. The scriptures were essentially > "revealed" to them. They > may, at best have simply seen that the rules > mentioned worked perfectly > as per their observations - otherwise its next to > impossible even for > tens of generations to observe and record meticulous > details before > coming to a concrete conclusion. > > I hope this helps. > > Take care. > > Deepak N. > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:21 PM > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > Dear Deepak ... > > I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively cant be > expalined or taught to anyone else to the same > degree > of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our own > with our intutions > > Thanks for your post ... > > But I just had a question ... arent you > contradicting > yourself when you say a) it's a science of > observation > b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? > I mean if it's a science of observation then it's > possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in > work > before the post modern astrologers came in to invent > them?? afterall it's a observation that they > document?? > > I am asking this because sometimes I am confused to > the extent to which we can subject ourselves to the > authority of tradition and dogma ... > > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > Dear Surya, > > > > Astrology is definitely a science, and like all > > other sciences, it is > > based on observation - observation of the position > > of planets at the > > time of a native's birth. It has been put to test > > and has met the > > criteria of repeatability and predictability. > > > > Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to say > > that Astrology was > > "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors of > > the science. Their > > only contribution was that they were receptive to > > this "revelation" and > > they later put everything on record, or > ascertained > > that it was put on > > record. > > > > The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that it > has > > been recorded in a > > cryptic language, and all good astrologers have to > > have a certain amount > > of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), to > > decode and decipher > > the real meaning of what has been put on record. > > > > That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury > > rules Gemini & Virgo, > > etc. Why the royal planets like the Sun and Moon > > have rulership over > > only one sign, while the other lesser planets get > to > > rule two signs > > each. And why, oh why, is Venus exalted in Pisces, > > Mars in Capricorn, > > and so on..... ? > > > > Astrology works, there is no doubt about it, so > even > > while we do not > > have the logical reasons for many dictums, we > accept > > them and apply them > > as such. > > But can we, or should we, accept the so-called > rules > > NOT mentioned in > > the classics, but generally quoted by astrologers > > today ? Kaal Sarpa > > Yoga is one such thing, which I feel is a creation > > of post-vedic times. > > Nowhere in the Vedas do I find reference to this > > yoga/dosha. But we > > discuss it openly in astrology > > seminars/conferences/lists. The > > significance of Gems in astrology is another thing > > that I cannot digest. > > How on earth can the use of gems enhance the > effect > > of planets, when > > they themselves are mere indicators and not the > > causative agents ? Seems > > we have come a full circle here, so I will sign > off. > > > > Take care. > > > > Deepak N. > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > [surya_prakashv] > > Monday, February 02, 2004 9:16 PM > > > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > > > Hey Deepak, > > > > It was an interesting post ... liked reading it > too > > .. > > because at different points of time we cant help > by > > ponder over these things as we attempt to learn > > astrology ... > > > > There are a few things I would like to say: > > there are two ways of looking at astrology: > > a) as a statistical science where a repeated event > > that happens when a certain planet happens to be > in > > a > > certain zodiac or so on ... > > > > b) A intutive science where the issues is much > > deeper > > than just planets .. > > > > the problem with first approach is that it dosent > > expalin half of how astrology works ...for example > > > i) Why should the lord of Virgo and gemini be > > Mercury > > and not som eother planet?? > > ii) How can we make sense in something like having > a > > 10 year moon dasa when moon actually rotates > around > > earth in a 24 hour span?? > > Here the approach of seeing it as a coincidence of > > events with stars fails ... > > > > To expalin these we have to accept that these were > > principles laid down based more on intution by the > > seers who have invented it ... > > > > Now when we accept that ... it becomes imperetive > > that > > we also accept the other part of what they have > said > > that of pleasing planets with remedies also to be > > true > > .. because if one part comes from divine intution > we > > cant question the other part ... > > > > I think the issue here is deeper than just planets > > ... > > As you have pointed out .. one way of looking at > it > > is > > that the mantras and the remedies are actually > meant > > for some deties or demi gods who are supposed to > > represent the planets on a symbolic level ... and > by > > appeasing them we can get rid of the effects of a > > particular karma partially ... > > > > Let's leave the example of hunger because I can > make > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. 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Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Ha ha ... No deepak I am just unsure .. I am sure that praying to Shiva works when you want to please chandra .. but am not sure why wearing a pearl should work for the same ... interestingly .. in BPHS the physical description of Chandra resembles a Pearl does that have any bearing?? I have another theory (More of arm chair philosophy you could say ) ... By Buying a pearl we are spending a part of our hard earned income into the act of appeasing Chandra or reducing the effect of karma that chandra represents .. so in a way it's a prayaschit offered in terms of our work ... so maybe the mental feeling of wearing the pearl for Chandra also acts like prayer ?? Does this make sense?? However you might say that it's me who is possessing the pearl all the time anyhow --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > Dear Surya, > > You mean - they DO work ? > > Looks like the beginning of another discussion, Ha, > Ha ! > > Deepak N. > > > surya vishnubhotla > [surya_prakashv] > Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:16 PM > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > Deepak, > > It is also my belief that the scriptures were > essentially revealed to them ... however I just > would > like to point that for the very same reason > Astrology > is both a Art and a Science .. science as far as we > use logic to apply proven rules and Art when we need > to go beyond the set rules to get insight into a > situation ... > > Thanks for the interesting discussion > > I still dont really understand why gem stones should > work ... > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > Dear Surya, > > > > Good thinking ! But the fact is that the seers did > > not do the > > observations. The scriptures were essentially > > "revealed" to them. They > > may, at best have simply seen that the rules > > mentioned worked perfectly > > as per their observations - otherwise its next to > > impossible even for > > tens of generations to observe and record > meticulous > > details before > > coming to a concrete conclusion. > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Take care. > > > > Deepak N. > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > [surya_prakashv] > > Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:21 PM > > > > RE: Request for some clarifications! > > > > Dear Deepak ... > > > > I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively cant > be > > expalined or taught to anyone else to the same > > degree > > of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our own > > with our intutions > > > > Thanks for your post ... > > > > But I just had a question ... arent you > > contradicting > > yourself when you say a) it's a science of > > observation > > b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? > > I mean if it's a science of observation then it's > > possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in > > work > > before the post modern astrologers came in to > invent > > them?? afterall it's a observation that they > > document?? > > > > I am asking this because sometimes I am confused > to > > the extent to which we can subject ourselves to > the > > authority of tradition and dogma ... > > > > > > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > > > Dear Surya, > > > > > > Astrology is definitely a science, and like all > > > other sciences, it is > > > based on observation - observation of the > position > > > of planets at the > > > time of a native's birth. It has been put to > test > > > and has met the > > > criteria of repeatability and predictability. > > > > > > Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to say > > > that Astrology was > > > "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors > of > > > the science. Their > > > only contribution was that they were receptive > to > > > this "revelation" and > > > they later put everything on record, or > > ascertained > > > that it was put on > > > record. > > > > > > The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that it > > has > > > been recorded in a > > > cryptic language, and all good astrologers have > to > > > have a certain amount > > > of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), > to > > > decode and decipher > > > the real meaning of what has been put on record. > > > > > > That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury > > > rules Gemini & Virgo, > > > etc. Why the royal planets like the Sun and Moon > > > have rulership over > > > only one sign, while the other lesser planets > get > > to > > > rule two signs > > > each. And why, oh why, is Venus exalted in > Pisces, > > > Mars in Capricorn, > > > and so on..... ? > > > > > > Astrology works, there is no doubt about it, so > > even > > > while we do not > > > have the logical reasons for many dictums, we > > accept > > > them and apply them > > > as such. > > > But can we, or should we, accept the so-called > > rules > > > NOT mentioned in > > > the classics, but generally quoted by > astrologers > > > today ? Kaal Sarpa > > > Yoga is one such thing, which I feel is a > creation > > > of post-vedic times. > > > Nowhere in the Vedas do I find reference to this > > > yoga/dosha. But we > > > discuss it openly in astrology > > > seminars/conferences/lists. The > > > significance of Gems in astrology is another > thing > > > that I cannot digest. > > > How on earth can the use of gems enhance the > > effect > > > of planets, when > > > they themselves are mere indicators and not the > > > causative agents ? Seems > > > we have come a full circle here, so I will sign > > off. > > > > > > Take care. > > > > > > Deepak N. > > > > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla > > > [surya_prakashv] > > > Monday, February 02, 2004 9:16 PM > > > > > > RE: Request for some > clarifications! > > > > > > Hey Deepak, > > > > > > It was an interesting post ... liked reading it > > too > > > .. > > > because at different points of time we cant help > > by > > > ponder over these things as we attempt to learn > > > astrology ... > > > > > > There are a few things I would like to say: > > > there are two ways of looking at astrology: > > > a) as a statistical science where a repeated > event > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Everything has energy and vibration. Clear crystals and gems have a very strong vibration, which you can feel yourself if you keep an open mind. What interests me is the current theory that gems must be flawless to work. How much stake do jewellers and gem dealers have in advancing this idea? I wear a couple of gems that are not flawless (flawless untreated gems are rare anyway as they are a natural product) but have had very positive results from them. I would be very keen to hear the opinions of list members on this subject. Since few of us are fabulously wealthy, there must be many people wearing flawed gems that have not experienced dire results. On 3/2/04 11:00 am, "surya vishnubhotla" <surya_prakashv wrote: > Ha ha ... No deepak I am just unsure .. > I am sure that praying to Shiva works when you want to > please chandra .. but am not sure why wearing a pearl > should work for the same ... interestingly .. in BPHS > the physical description of Chandra resembles a Pearl > does that have any bearing?? > > I have another theory (More of arm chair philosophy > you could say ) ... By Buying a pearl we are > spending a part of our hard earned income into the act > of appeasing Chandra or reducing the effect of karma > that chandra represents .. so in a way it's a > prayaschit offered in terms of our work ... so maybe > the mental feeling of wearing the pearl for Chandra > also acts like prayer ?? > > Does this make sense?? However you might say that it's > me who is possessing the pearl all the time anyhow > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >> Dear Surya, >> >> You mean - they DO work ? >> >> Looks like the beginning of another discussion, Ha, >> Ha ! >> >> Deepak N. >> >> >> surya vishnubhotla >> [surya_prakashv] >> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:16 PM >> >> RE: Request for some clarifications! >> >> Deepak, >> >> It is also my belief that the scriptures were >> essentially revealed to them ... however I just >> would >> like to point that for the very same reason >> Astrology >> is both a Art and a Science .. science as far as we >> use logic to apply proven rules and Art when we need >> to go beyond the set rules to get insight into a >> situation ... >> >> Thanks for the interesting discussion >> >> I still dont really understand why gem stones should >> work ... >> >> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >>> Dear Surya, >>> >>> Good thinking ! But the fact is that the seers did >>> not do the >>> observations. The scriptures were essentially >>> "revealed" to them. They >>> may, at best have simply seen that the rules >>> mentioned worked perfectly >>> as per their observations - otherwise its next to >>> impossible even for >>> tens of generations to observe and record >> meticulous >>> details before >>> coming to a concrete conclusion. >>> >>> I hope this helps. >>> >>> Take care. >>> >>> Deepak N. >>> >>> >>> surya vishnubhotla >>> [surya_prakashv] >>> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:21 PM >>> >>> RE: Request for some clarifications! >>> >>> Dear Deepak ... >>> >>> I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively cant >> be >>> expalined or taught to anyone else to the same >>> degree >>> of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our own >>> with our intutions >>> >>> Thanks for your post ... >>> >>> But I just had a question ... arent you >>> contradicting >>> yourself when you say a) it's a science of >>> observation >>> b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? >>> I mean if it's a science of observation then it's >>> possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in >>> work >>> before the post modern astrologers came in to >> invent >>> them?? afterall it's a observation that they >>> document?? >>> >>> I am asking this because sometimes I am confused >> to >>> the extent to which we can subject ourselves to >> the >>> authority of tradition and dogma ... >>> >>> >>> >>> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >>>> Dear Surya, >>>> >>>> Astrology is definitely a science, and like all >>>> other sciences, it is >>>> based on observation - observation of the >> position >>>> of planets at the >>>> time of a native's birth. It has been put to >> test >>>> and has met the >>>> criteria of repeatability and predictability. >>>> >>>> Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to say >>>> that Astrology was >>>> "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors >> of >>>> the science. Their >>>> only contribution was that they were receptive >> to >>>> this "revelation" and >>>> they later put everything on record, or >>> ascertained >>>> that it was put on >>>> record. >>>> >>>> The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that it >>> has >>>> been recorded in a >>>> cryptic language, and all good astrologers have >> to >>>> have a certain amount >>>> of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), >> to >>>> decode and decipher >>>> the real meaning of what has been put on record. >>>> >>>> That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury >>>> rules Gemini & Virgo, >>>> etc. Why the royal planets like the Sun and Moon >>>> have rulership over >>>> only one sign, while the other lesser planets >> get >>> to >>>> rule two signs >>>> each. And why, oh why, is Venus exalted in >> Pisces, >>>> Mars in Capricorn, >>>> and so on..... ? >>>> >>>> Astrology works, there is no doubt about it, so >>> even >>>> while we do not >>>> have the logical reasons for many dictums, we >>> accept >>>> them and apply them >>>> as such. >>>> But can we, or should we, accept the so-called >>> rules >>>> NOT mentioned in >>>> the classics, but generally quoted by >> astrologers >>>> today ? Kaal Sarpa >>>> Yoga is one such thing, which I feel is a >> creation >>>> of post-vedic times. >>>> Nowhere in the Vedas do I find reference to this >>>> yoga/dosha. But we >>>> discuss it openly in astrology >>>> seminars/conferences/lists. The >>>> significance of Gems in astrology is another >> thing >>>> that I cannot digest. >>>> How on earth can the use of gems enhance the >>> effect >>>> of planets, when >>>> they themselves are mere indicators and not the >>>> causative agents ? Seems >>>> we have come a full circle here, so I will sign >>> off. >>>> >>>> Take care. >>>> >>>> Deepak N. >>>> >>>> >>>> surya vishnubhotla >>>> [surya_prakashv] >>>> Monday, February 02, 2004 9:16 PM >>>> >>>> RE: Request for some >> clarifications! >>>> >>>> Hey Deepak, >>>> >>>> It was an interesting post ... liked reading it >>> too >>>> .. >>>> because at different points of time we cant help >>> by >>>> ponder over these things as we attempt to learn >>>> astrology ... >>>> >>>> There are a few things I would like to say: >>>> there are two ways of looking at astrology: >>>> a) as a statistical science where a repeated >> event >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Flick, Another piece of advise that was given to me by a renowned astrologer (and I believe he knows his stuff) was: a) When you wear a ring first take it to the appropriate temple and put it in front of the diety and pray for sometime before wearing it for the first time ... ex to a shiva temple for chandra and repeating "OM namaha shivaya" for 108 times by holding the ring in the palm .. b) Clean the ring from time to time .. maybe once every week and dont allow dust and such things to accumulate .. c) it will be even better if the pearl or ruby etc actually touch your body (in a ring a hollow bottom should at least bring the thing clsoe to you) The energy funda is quite interesting ... it's true that every ingredient has its own frequency and maybe therein lies the key ... but this theory raises so many questions to my mind ... for example it suggests that in a given sub period we are influenced by certain vibrations that surround our body ... and the remedies that we wear counter them or optimize them as per our requirement to retain balance ... does this then mean that the frequencies that surround our body influence our mind ... and hence make us react to situations as we actually end up doing?? where are these situations coming from?? are we creating them as well?? or are the situations being brought upon us by the frequencies surrounding us?? is escaping these frequencies then an act of escaping karma??? so on and so forth !! Gems seem to work .. at least statistically ... I am not sure why or why not ... --- Flick <rubysun wrote: > Everything has energy and vibration. Clear crystals > and gems have a very > strong vibration, which you can feel yourself if you > keep an open mind. What > interests me is the current theory that gems must be > flawless to work. How > much stake do jewellers and gem dealers have in > advancing this idea? I wear > a couple of gems that are not flawless (flawless > untreated gems are rare > anyway as they are a natural product) but have had > very positive results > from them. I would be very keen to hear the opinions > of list members on this > subject. Since few of us are fabulously wealthy, > there must be many people > wearing flawed gems that have not experienced dire > results. > > On 3/2/04 11:00 am, "surya vishnubhotla" > <surya_prakashv wrote: > > > Ha ha ... No deepak I am just unsure .. > > I am sure that praying to Shiva works when you > want to > > please chandra .. but am not sure why wearing a > pearl > > should work for the same ... interestingly .. in > BPHS > > the physical description of Chandra resembles a > Pearl > > does that have any bearing?? > > > > I have another theory (More of arm chair > philosophy > > you could say ) ... By Buying a pearl we are > > spending a part of our hard earned income into the > act > > of appeasing Chandra or reducing the effect of > karma > > that chandra represents .. so in a way it's a > > prayaschit offered in terms of our work ... so > maybe > > the mental feeling of wearing the pearl for > Chandra > > also acts like prayer ?? > > > > Does this make sense?? However you might say that > it's > > me who is possessing the pearl all the time anyhow > > > > > > > --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > >> Dear Surya, > >> > >> You mean - they DO work ? > >> > >> Looks like the beginning of another discussion, > Ha, > >> Ha ! > >> > >> Deepak N. > >> > >> > >> surya vishnubhotla > >> [surya_prakashv] > >> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:16 PM > >> > >> RE: Request for some > clarifications! > >> > >> Deepak, > >> > >> It is also my belief that the scriptures were > >> essentially revealed to them ... however I just > >> would > >> like to point that for the very same reason > >> Astrology > >> is both a Art and a Science .. science as far as > we > >> use logic to apply proven rules and Art when we > need > >> to go beyond the set rules to get insight into a > >> situation ... > >> > >> Thanks for the interesting discussion > >> > >> I still dont really understand why gem stones > should > >> work ... > >> > >> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > >>> Dear Surya, > >>> > >>> Good thinking ! But the fact is that the seers > did > >>> not do the > >>> observations. The scriptures were essentially > >>> "revealed" to them. They > >>> may, at best have simply seen that the rules > >>> mentioned worked perfectly > >>> as per their observations - otherwise its next > to > >>> impossible even for > >>> tens of generations to observe and record > >> meticulous > >>> details before > >>> coming to a concrete conclusion. > >>> > >>> I hope this helps. > >>> > >>> Take care. > >>> > >>> Deepak N. > >>> > >>> > >>> surya vishnubhotla > >>> [surya_prakashv] > >>> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:21 PM > >>> > >>> RE: Request for some > clarifications! > >>> > >>> Dear Deepak ... > >>> > >>> I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively > cant > >> be > >>> expalined or taught to anyone else to the same > >>> degree > >>> of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our > own > >>> with our intutions > >>> > >>> Thanks for your post ... > >>> > >>> But I just had a question ... arent you > >>> contradicting > >>> yourself when you say a) it's a science of > >>> observation > >>> b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? > >>> I mean if it's a science of observation then > it's > >>> possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in > >>> work > >>> before the post modern astrologers came in to > >> invent > >>> them?? afterall it's a observation that they > >>> document?? > >>> > >>> I am asking this because sometimes I am confused > >> to > >>> the extent to which we can subject ourselves to > >> the > >>> authority of tradition and dogma ... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > >>>> Dear Surya, > >>>> > >>>> Astrology is definitely a science, and like all > >>>> other sciences, it is > >>>> based on observation - observation of the > >> position > >>>> of planets at the > >>>> time of a native's birth. It has been put to > >> test > >>>> and has met the > >>>> criteria of repeatability and predictability. > >>>> > >>>> Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to > say > >>>> that Astrology was > >>>> "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors > >> of > >>>> the science. Their > >>>> only contribution was that they were receptive > >> to > >>>> this "revelation" and > >>>> they later put everything on record, or > >>> ascertained > >>>> that it was put on > >>>> record. > >>>> > >>>> The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that > it > >>> has > >>>> been recorded in a > >>>> cryptic language, and all good astrologers have > >> to > >>>> have a certain amount > >>>> of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), > >> to > >>>> decode and decipher > >>>> the real meaning of what has been put on > record. > >>>> > >>>> That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury > >>>> rules Gemini & Virgo, > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. 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Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 On 3/2/04 2:12 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" <surya_prakashv wrote: Surya, thank you for taking the trouble to reply. > Another piece of advise that was given to me by a > renowned astrologer (and I believe he knows his stuff) > was: > a) When you wear a ring first take it to the > appropriate temple and put it in front of the diety > and pray for sometime before wearing it for the first > time ... ex to a shiva temple for chandra and > repeating "OM namaha shivaya" for 108 times by holding > the ring in the palm .. We don't have any temples here in Oxford. However, I did install my gems after chanting the mantra for the appropriate planet each time. > > b) Clean the ring from time to time .. maybe once > every week and dont allow dust and such things to > accumulate .. I clean them each morning. > > c) it will be even better if the pearl or ruby etc > actually touch your body (in a ring a hollow bottom > should at least bring the thing clsoe to you) I always make sure my gems are set in an open backed setting. However, I feel that we are currently all more sensitive to energies than was once the case, and smaller stones may work, as well as gems not actually touching the skin (they are still within the aura after all). > > The energy funda is quite interesting ... it's true > that every ingredient has its own frequency and maybe > therein lies the key ... but this theory raises so > many questions to my mind ... for example it suggests > that in a given sub period we are influenced by > certain vibrations that surround our body ... and the > remedies that we wear counter them or optimize them as > per our requirement to retain balance ... does this > then mean that the frequencies that surround our body > influence our mind ... and hence make us react to > situations as we actually end up doing?? where are > these situations coming from?? are we creating them as > well?? or are the situations being brought upon us by > the frequencies surrounding us?? is escaping these > frequencies then an act of escaping karma??? > so on and so forth !! I think of different gems as filters, just as you might use a specific filter over a lens to optimise or allow through some colour but not another...or maybe different gems concentrate the energies of different forces, planets or whatever. I believe that as long as we address our karma and don't try to evade it, then using remedial measures will help us and put us in the frame of mind to tackle what needs to be done, much as you would wear the correct gear for walking or climbing. You still have to put in the effort yourself, but you are given something you can draw on to motivate and help you. > > Gems seem to work .. at least statistically ... I am > not sure why or why not ... I'm still very keen to know anyone's thoughts on the necessity to have flawless or at least eye clean gems. And what does eye clean really mean? For example, I can see no visible flaws in my yellow sapphire, but my daughter's young healthy eyes can see a small inclusion (under magnification, of course, there are more). With many thanks, Blessings, Flick. Author website: http://www.witchcraft.org/elenhawke.htm > > > --- Flick <rubysun wrote: >> Everything has energy and vibration. Clear crystals >> and gems have a very >> strong vibration, which you can feel yourself if you >> keep an open mind. What >> interests me is the current theory that gems must be >> flawless to work. How >> much stake do jewellers and gem dealers have in >> advancing this idea? I wear >> a couple of gems that are not flawless (flawless >> untreated gems are rare >> anyway as they are a natural product) but have had >> very positive results >> from them. I would be very keen to hear the opinions >> of list members on this >> subject. Since few of us are fabulously wealthy, >> there must be many people >> wearing flawed gems that have not experienced dire >> results. >> >> On 3/2/04 11:00 am, "surya vishnubhotla" >> <surya_prakashv wrote: >> >>> Ha ha ... No deepak I am just unsure .. >>> I am sure that praying to Shiva works when you >> want to >>> please chandra .. but am not sure why wearing a >> pearl >>> should work for the same ... interestingly .. in >> BPHS >>> the physical description of Chandra resembles a >> Pearl >>> does that have any bearing?? >>> >>> I have another theory (More of arm chair >> philosophy >>> you could say ) ... By Buying a pearl we are >>> spending a part of our hard earned income into the >> act >>> of appeasing Chandra or reducing the effect of >> karma >>> that chandra represents .. so in a way it's a >>> prayaschit offered in terms of our work ... so >> maybe >>> the mental feeling of wearing the pearl for >> Chandra >>> also acts like prayer ?? >>> >>> Does this make sense?? However you might say that >> it's >>> me who is possessing the pearl all the time anyhow >> >>> >>> >>> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >>>> Dear Surya, >>>> >>>> You mean - they DO work ? >>>> >>>> Looks like the beginning of another discussion, >> Ha, >>>> Ha ! >>>> >>>> Deepak N. >>>> >>>> >>>> surya vishnubhotla >>>> [surya_prakashv] >>>> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:16 PM >>>> >>>> RE: Request for some >> clarifications! >>>> >>>> Deepak, >>>> >>>> It is also my belief that the scriptures were >>>> essentially revealed to them ... however I just >>>> would >>>> like to point that for the very same reason >>>> Astrology >>>> is both a Art and a Science .. science as far as >> we >>>> use logic to apply proven rules and Art when we >> need >>>> to go beyond the set rules to get insight into a >>>> situation ... >>>> >>>> Thanks for the interesting discussion >>>> >>>> I still dont really understand why gem stones >> should >>>> work ... >>>> >>>> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >>>>> Dear Surya, >>>>> >>>>> Good thinking ! But the fact is that the seers >> did >>>>> not do the >>>>> observations. The scriptures were essentially >>>>> "revealed" to them. They >>>>> may, at best have simply seen that the rules >>>>> mentioned worked perfectly >>>>> as per their observations - otherwise its next >> to >>>>> impossible even for >>>>> tens of generations to observe and record >>>> meticulous >>>>> details before >>>>> coming to a concrete conclusion. >>>>> >>>>> I hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> Take care. >>>>> >>>>> Deepak N. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> surya vishnubhotla >>>>> [surya_prakashv] >>>>> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:21 PM >>>>> >>>>> RE: Request for some >> clarifications! >>>>> >>>>> Dear Deepak ... >>>>> >>>>> I agree ... I guess what we learn intutively >> cant >>>> be >>>>> expalined or taught to anyone else to the same >>>>> degree >>>>> of enlightenment ... I guess we are all on our >> own >>>>> with our intutions >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for your post ... >>>>> >>>>> But I just had a question ... arent you >>>>> contradicting >>>>> yourself when you say a) it's a science of >>>>> observation >>>>> b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? >>>>> I mean if it's a science of observation then >> it's >>>>> possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in >>>>> work >>>>> before the post modern astrologers came in to >>>> invent >>>>> them?? afterall it's a observation that they >>>>> document?? >>>>> >>>>> I am asking this because sometimes I am confused >>>> to >>>>> the extent to which we can subject ourselves to >>>> the >>>>> authority of tradition and dogma ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >>>>>> Dear Surya, >>>>>> >>>>>> Astrology is definitely a science, and like all >>>>>> other sciences, it is >>>>>> based on observation - observation of the >>>> position >>>>>> of planets at the >>>>>> time of a native's birth. It has been put to >>>> test >>>>>> and has met the >>>>>> criteria of repeatability and predictability. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the ancient sages, I would like to >> say >>>>>> that Astrology was >>>>>> "revealed" to them. They were not the inventors >>>> of >>>>>> the science. Their >>>>>> only contribution was that they were receptive >>>> to >>>>>> this "revelation" and >>>>>> they later put everything on record, or >>>>> ascertained >>>>>> that it was put on >>>>>> record. >>>>>> >>>>>> The only problem with Vedic Astrology is that >> it >>>>> has >>>>>> been recorded in a >>>>>> cryptic language, and all good astrologers have >>>> to >>>>>> have a certain amount >>>>>> of "sixth sense" ( you may call it intuition), >>>> to >>>>>> decode and decipher >>>>>> the real meaning of what has been put on >> record. >>>>>> >>>>>> That is why we do not know for sure why Mercury >>>>>> rules Gemini & Virgo, >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Flick, It will also be nice if you can share your view points on the few q's i have put up ... I believe that the number of possibilities in any given situation equals the number of beliefs held .. .. I am impressed with your methodical approach !! .. In India we have the luxury of walking onto any street and expecting to enter a temple of some size !! ... but I guess the intent is more important .. because ultimately God looks for the intent and not weather u have worshipped him in temple or home ... there is always a temple inside --- Flick <rubysun wrote: > On 3/2/04 2:12 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" > <surya_prakashv wrote: > > Surya, thank you for taking the trouble to reply. > > > Another piece of advise that was given to me by a > > renowned astrologer (and I believe he knows his > stuff) > > was: > > a) When you wear a ring first take it to the > > appropriate temple and put it in front of the > diety > > and pray for sometime before wearing it for the > first > > time ... ex to a shiva temple for chandra and > > repeating "OM namaha shivaya" for 108 times by > holding > > the ring in the palm .. > > We don't have any temples here in Oxford. However, I > did install my gems > after chanting the mantra for the appropriate planet > each time. > > > > b) Clean the ring from time to time .. maybe once > > every week and dont allow dust and such things to > > accumulate .. > > I clean them each morning. > > > > c) it will be even better if the pearl or ruby etc > > actually touch your body (in a ring a hollow > bottom > > should at least bring the thing clsoe to you) > > I always make sure my gems are set in an open backed > setting. However, I > feel that we are currently all more sensitive to > energies than was once the > case, and smaller stones may work, as well as gems > not actually touching the > skin (they are still within the aura after all). > > > > The energy funda is quite interesting ... it's > true > > that every ingredient has its own frequency and > maybe > > therein lies the key ... but this theory raises so > > many questions to my mind ... for example it > suggests > > that in a given sub period we are influenced by > > certain vibrations that surround our body ... and > the > > remedies that we wear counter them or optimize > them as > > per our requirement to retain balance ... does > this > > then mean that the frequencies that surround our > body > > influence our mind ... and hence make us react to > > situations as we actually end up doing?? where are > > these situations coming from?? are we creating > them as > > well?? or are the situations being brought upon us > by > > the frequencies surrounding us?? is escaping these > > frequencies then an act of escaping karma??? > > so on and so forth !! > > I think of different gems as filters, just as you > might use a specific > filter over a lens to optimise or allow through some > colour but not > another...or maybe different gems concentrate the > energies of different > forces, planets or whatever. I believe that as long > as we address our karma > and don't try to evade it, then using remedial > measures will help us and put > us in the frame of mind to tackle what needs to be > done, much as you would > wear the correct gear for walking or climbing. You > still have to put in the > effort yourself, but you are given something you can > draw on to motivate and > help you. > > > > Gems seem to work .. at least statistically ... I > am > > not sure why or why not ... > > I'm still very keen to know anyone's thoughts on the > necessity to have > flawless or at least eye clean gems. And what does > eye clean really mean? > For example, I can see no visible flaws in my yellow > sapphire, but my > daughter's young healthy eyes can see a small > inclusion (under > magnification, of course, there are more). > > With many thanks, > Blessings, > Flick. > Author website: > http://www.witchcraft.org/elenhawke.htm > > > > > > > --- Flick <rubysun wrote: > >> Everything has energy and vibration. Clear > crystals > >> and gems have a very > >> strong vibration, which you can feel yourself if > you > >> keep an open mind. What > >> interests me is the current theory that gems must > be > >> flawless to work. How > >> much stake do jewellers and gem dealers have in > >> advancing this idea? I wear > >> a couple of gems that are not flawless (flawless > >> untreated gems are rare > >> anyway as they are a natural product) but have > had > >> very positive results > >> from them. I would be very keen to hear the > opinions > >> of list members on this > >> subject. Since few of us are fabulously wealthy, > >> there must be many people > >> wearing flawed gems that have not experienced > dire > >> results. > >> > >> On 3/2/04 11:00 am, "surya vishnubhotla" > >> <surya_prakashv wrote: > >> > >>> Ha ha ... No deepak I am just unsure .. > >>> I am sure that praying to Shiva works when you > >> want to > >>> please chandra .. but am not sure why wearing a > >> pearl > >>> should work for the same ... interestingly .. in > >> BPHS > >>> the physical description of Chandra resembles a > >> Pearl > >>> does that have any bearing?? > >>> > >>> I have another theory (More of arm chair > >> philosophy > >>> you could say ) ... By Buying a pearl we are > >>> spending a part of our hard earned income into > the > >> act > >>> of appeasing Chandra or reducing the effect of > >> karma > >>> that chandra represents .. so in a way it's a > >>> prayaschit offered in terms of our work ... so > >> maybe > >>> the mental feeling of wearing the pearl for > >> Chandra > >>> also acts like prayer ?? > >>> > >>> Does this make sense?? However you might say > that > >> it's > >>> me who is possessing the pearl all the time > anyhow > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: > >>>> Dear Surya, > >>>> > >>>> You mean - they DO work ? > >>>> > >>>> Looks like the beginning of another discussion, > >> Ha, > >>>> Ha ! > >>>> > >>>> Deepak N. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> surya vishnubhotla > >>>> [surya_prakashv] > >>>> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:16 PM > >>>> > >>>> RE: Request for some > >> clarifications! > >>>> > >>>> Deepak, > >>>> > >>>> It is also my belief that the scriptures were > >>>> essentially revealed to them ... however I just > >>>> would > >>>> like to point that for the very same reason > >>>> Astrology > >>>> is both a Art and a Science .. science as far > as > >> we > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 On 3/2/04 2:39 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" <surya_prakashv wrote: > Flick, > > It will also be nice if you can share your view points > on the few q's i have put up Oh, I thought I had, towards the end of the message :-) > ... I believe that the > number of possibilities in any given situation equals > the number of beliefs held .. .. I agree. > > I am impressed with your methodical approach !! .. In > India we have the luxury of walking onto any street > and expecting to enter a temple of some size !! ... > but I guess the intent is more important .. because > ultimately God looks for the intent and not weather u > have worshipped him in temple or home ... there is > always a temple inside Once again I agree with all you say here. It reminds me of the tale of the farmer who gained enlightenment by chanting the jewel in the heart of the cow (the word being almost the same as lotus in the foreign tongue through which his teacher spoke to him)...the farmer's intent brought to him enlightenment. A salutary lesson for all who would put the letter before the inner essence of spirituality. Which other points did you wish me to respond to? > > > --- Flick <rubysun wrote: >> On 3/2/04 2:12 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" >> <surya_prakashv wrote: >> >> Surya, thank you for taking the trouble to reply. >> >>> Another piece of advise that was given to me by a >>> renowned astrologer (and I believe he knows his >> stuff) >>> was: >>> a) When you wear a ring first take it to the >>> appropriate temple and put it in front of the >> diety >>> and pray for sometime before wearing it for the >> first >>> time ... ex to a shiva temple for chandra and >>> repeating "OM namaha shivaya" for 108 times by >> holding >>> the ring in the palm .. >> >> We don't have any temples here in Oxford. However, I >> did install my gems >> after chanting the mantra for the appropriate planet >> each time. >>> >>> b) Clean the ring from time to time .. maybe once >>> every week and dont allow dust and such things to >>> accumulate .. >> >> I clean them each morning. >>> >>> c) it will be even better if the pearl or ruby etc >>> actually touch your body (in a ring a hollow >> bottom >>> should at least bring the thing clsoe to you) >> >> I always make sure my gems are set in an open backed >> setting. However, I >> feel that we are currently all more sensitive to >> energies than was once the >> case, and smaller stones may work, as well as gems >> not actually touching the >> skin (they are still within the aura after all). >>> >>> The energy funda is quite interesting ... it's >> true >>> that every ingredient has its own frequency and >> maybe >>> therein lies the key ... but this theory raises so >>> many questions to my mind ... for example it >> suggests >>> that in a given sub period we are influenced by >>> certain vibrations that surround our body ... and >> the >>> remedies that we wear counter them or optimize >> them as >>> per our requirement to retain balance ... does >> this >>> then mean that the frequencies that surround our >> body >>> influence our mind ... and hence make us react to >>> situations as we actually end up doing?? where are >>> these situations coming from?? are we creating >> them as >>> well?? or are the situations being brought upon us >> by >>> the frequencies surrounding us?? is escaping these >>> frequencies then an act of escaping karma??? >>> so on and so forth !! >> >> I think of different gems as filters, just as you >> might use a specific >> filter over a lens to optimise or allow through some >> colour but not >> another...or maybe different gems concentrate the >> energies of different >> forces, planets or whatever. I believe that as long >> as we address our karma >> and don't try to evade it, then using remedial >> measures will help us and put >> us in the frame of mind to tackle what needs to be >> done, much as you would >> wear the correct gear for walking or climbing. You >> still have to put in the >> effort yourself, but you are given something you can >> draw on to motivate and >> help you. >>> >>> Gems seem to work .. at least statistically ... I >> am >>> not sure why or why not ... >> >> I'm still very keen to know anyone's thoughts on the >> necessity to have >> flawless or at least eye clean gems. And what does >> eye clean really mean? >> For example, I can see no visible flaws in my yellow >> sapphire, but my >> daughter's young healthy eyes can see a small >> inclusion (under >> magnification, of course, there are more). >> >> With many thanks, >> Blessings, >> Flick. >> Author website: >> http://www.witchcraft.org/elenhawke.htm >> >>> >>> >>> --- Flick <rubysun wrote: >>>> Everything has energy and vibration. Clear >> crystals >>>> and gems have a very >>>> strong vibration, which you can feel yourself if >> you >>>> keep an open mind. What >>>> interests me is the current theory that gems must >> be >>>> flawless to work. How >>>> much stake do jewellers and gem dealers have in >>>> advancing this idea? I wear >>>> a couple of gems that are not flawless (flawless >>>> untreated gems are rare >>>> anyway as they are a natural product) but have >> had >>>> very positive results >>>> from them. I would be very keen to hear the >> opinions >>>> of list members on this >>>> subject. Since few of us are fabulously wealthy, >>>> there must be many people >>>> wearing flawed gems that have not experienced >> dire >>>> results. >>>> >>>> On 3/2/04 11:00 am, "surya vishnubhotla" >>>> <surya_prakashv wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ha ha ... No deepak I am just unsure .. >>>>> I am sure that praying to Shiva works when you >>>> want to >>>>> please chandra .. but am not sure why wearing a >>>> pearl >>>>> should work for the same ... interestingly .. in >>>> BPHS >>>>> the physical description of Chandra resembles a >>>> Pearl >>>>> does that have any bearing?? >>>>> >>>>> I have another theory (More of arm chair >>>> philosophy >>>>> you could say ) ... By Buying a pearl we are >>>>> spending a part of our hard earned income into >> the >>>> act >>>>> of appeasing Chandra or reducing the effect of >>>> karma >>>>> that chandra represents .. so in a way it's a >>>>> prayaschit offered in terms of our work ... so >>>> maybe >>>>> the mental feeling of wearing the pearl for >>>> Chandra >>>>> also acts like prayer ?? >>>>> >>>>> Does this make sense?? However you might say >> that >>>> it's >>>>> me who is possessing the pearl all the time >> anyhow >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- Deepak Nair <deepaknair wrote: >>>>>> Dear Surya, >>>>>> >>>>>> You mean - they DO work ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Looks like the beginning of another discussion, >>>> Ha, >>>>>> Ha ! >>>>>> >>>>>> Deepak N. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> surya vishnubhotla >>>>>> [surya_prakashv] >>>>>> Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:16 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> RE: Request for some >>>> clarifications! >>>>>> >>>>>> Deepak, >>>>>> >>>>>> It is also my belief that the scriptures were >>>>>> essentially revealed to them ... however I just >>>>>> would >>>>>> like to point that for the very same reason >>>>>> Astrology >>>>>> is both a Art and a Science .. science as far >> as >>>> we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 On second thoughts you seem to have answered to some extent ... However picture this ... The actual moon dasa that lasts for 10 years has no bearing on the actual movement of Moon in the skies ..... However, we consistently experience more of moon influences in that period ... or in your own terminology Frequencies that are associated with the moon ... something which can be enhanced or countered by wearing pearl ... it's like a set of magnetic influences have come into your being in that period of time ... now how does all this fit in with the idea of Karma?? either we are defining Karma as a set of these frequencies thrusted onto us that we are trying to reduce with counter influences .. or the idea of frequencies is wrong ... which way does the pendulum swing?? Further Yoga shastra says that the impressions that are planted into the mind are acutally the karma that we are subjected to ... falling off of karma here is treated as falling off of the impressions (this I will talk about in more detail later) ... Now how do these fit together? Life sometimes seems to be a sinister ploy of the god to get us back to him .. God has given us free will ... but put us in the boundry of Karma which limits us by making us guide our free will only in a certain way ... I know I know I am not being clear ... because I am tempted to banter onto the relms of tantra as I talk these things ... but sooner or later I will ask you more questions ... Thanks for your patience Surya. --- Flick <rubysun wrote: > On 3/2/04 2:39 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" > <surya_prakashv wrote: > > > Flick, > > > > It will also be nice if you can share your view > points > > on the few q's i have put up > > Oh, I thought I had, towards the end of the message > :-) > > > ... I believe that the > > number of possibilities in any given situation > equals > > the number of beliefs held .. .. > > I agree. > > > > I am impressed with your methodical approach !! .. > In > > India we have the luxury of walking onto any > street > > and expecting to enter a temple of some size !! > ... > > but I guess the intent is more important .. > because > > ultimately God looks for the intent and not > weather u > > have worshipped him in temple or home ... there is > > always a temple inside > > Once again I agree with all you say here. It reminds > me of the tale of the > farmer who gained enlightenment by chanting the > jewel in the heart of the > cow (the word being almost the same as lotus in the > foreign tongue through > which his teacher spoke to him)...the farmer's > intent brought to him > enlightenment. A salutary lesson for all who would > put the letter before the > inner essence of spirituality. > > Which other points did you wish me to respond to? > > > > > > > --- Flick <rubysun wrote: > >> On 3/2/04 2:12 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" > >> <surya_prakashv wrote: > >> > >> Surya, thank you for taking the trouble to reply. > >> > >>> Another piece of advise that was given to me by > a > >>> renowned astrologer (and I believe he knows his > >> stuff) > >>> was: > >>> a) When you wear a ring first take it to the > >>> appropriate temple and put it in front of the > >> diety > >>> and pray for sometime before wearing it for the > >> first > >>> time ... ex to a shiva temple for chandra and > >>> repeating "OM namaha shivaya" for 108 times by > >> holding > >>> the ring in the palm .. > >> > >> We don't have any temples here in Oxford. > However, I > >> did install my gems > >> after chanting the mantra for the appropriate > planet > >> each time. > >>> > >>> b) Clean the ring from time to time .. maybe > once > >>> every week and dont allow dust and such things > to > >>> accumulate .. > >> > >> I clean them each morning. > >>> > >>> c) it will be even better if the pearl or ruby > etc > >>> actually touch your body (in a ring a hollow > >> bottom > >>> should at least bring the thing clsoe to you) > >> > >> I always make sure my gems are set in an open > backed > >> setting. However, I > >> feel that we are currently all more sensitive to > >> energies than was once the > >> case, and smaller stones may work, as well as > gems > >> not actually touching the > >> skin (they are still within the aura after all). > >>> > >>> The energy funda is quite interesting ... it's > >> true > >>> that every ingredient has its own frequency and > >> maybe > >>> therein lies the key ... but this theory raises > so > >>> many questions to my mind ... for example it > >> suggests > >>> that in a given sub period we are influenced by > >>> certain vibrations that surround our body ... > and > >> the > >>> remedies that we wear counter them or optimize > >> them as > >>> per our requirement to retain balance ... does > >> this > >>> then mean that the frequencies that surround our > >> body > >>> influence our mind ... and hence make us react > to > >>> situations as we actually end up doing?? where > are > >>> these situations coming from?? are we creating > >> them as > >>> well?? or are the situations being brought upon > us > >> by > >>> the frequencies surrounding us?? is escaping > these > >>> frequencies then an act of escaping karma??? > >>> so on and so forth !! > >> > >> I think of different gems as filters, just as you > >> might use a specific > >> filter over a lens to optimise or allow through > some > >> colour but not > >> another...or maybe different gems concentrate the > >> energies of different > >> forces, planets or whatever. I believe that as > long > >> as we address our karma > >> and don't try to evade it, then using remedial > >> measures will help us and put > >> us in the frame of mind to tackle what needs to > be > >> done, much as you would > >> wear the correct gear for walking or climbing. > You > >> still have to put in the > >> effort yourself, but you are given something you > can > >> draw on to motivate and > >> help you. > >>> > >>> Gems seem to work .. at least statistically ... > I > >> am > >>> not sure why or why not ... > >> > >> I'm still very keen to know anyone's thoughts on > the > >> necessity to have > >> flawless or at least eye clean gems. And what > does > >> eye clean really mean? > >> For example, I can see no visible flaws in my > yellow > >> sapphire, but my > >> daughter's young healthy eyes can see a small > >> inclusion (under > >> magnification, of course, there are more). > >> > >> With many thanks, > >> Blessings, > >> Flick. > >> Author website: > >> http://www.witchcraft.org/elenhawke.htm > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- Flick <rubysun wrote: > >>>> Everything has energy and vibration. Clear > >> crystals > >>>> and gems have a very > >>>> strong vibration, which you can feel yourself > if > >> you > >>>> keep an open mind. What > >>>> interests me is the current theory that gems > must > >> be > >>>> flawless to work. How > >>>> much stake do jewellers and gem dealers have in > >>>> advancing this idea? I wear > >>>> a couple of gems that are not flawless > (flawless > >>>> untreated gems are rare > >>>> anyway as they are a natural product) but have > >> had > >>>> very positive results > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Dear Surya, But I just had a question ... arent you contradicting yourself when you say a) it's a science of observation b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? I mean if it's a science of observation then it's possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in work before the post modern astrologers came in to invent them?? afterall it's a observation that they document?? I am asking this because sometimes I am confused to the extent to which we can subject ourselves to the authority of tradition and dogma ... In cognition of jyotish "Navagrahas" are the rishi, "Rasis" are the devatas and "Nakshatras" are the Chandas aspects; the most expressed values. The cognition by Rishi Parashara is the cognition of its Own Self, fully developed state of Brahman... perfect wholeness. Perfect wholeness means that the complete and perfect vision of all the interactions and intricacies of the Play have been revealed. But the greatness of Parashara is that He has choosen only those very few main priciples that will make jyotish practical for its goal, enough to be useful for people of all races and all times for all yugas and all Creations. The goal of Jyotish/Kalpa is to avert the danger before it arises... Find a period where a problem will show its dirty nose and use the appropriate yagya. No need to go too much into the useless intricacies, details or depth of our life. This is the beauty and practicality of knowledge. This is the Highway of Knowledge... You see a problem coming from a distance? You don't pass your time to analyse it too much... you just blow its head and continue your way doing only interesting things like enjoying every steps of a beautiful life on the path to moksha. This is not the science of our time or wise men of our age that will decide of the authenticity or validity of such vision. It needed validation of many others Rishis, Highly developed Sages and the course of time to decide of the genuineness for any vedic cognition. And in a way this is, for the people of present time, a kind of "you take it or leave it!". Very difficult indeed for "scientific" minded people to swallow, specially in the West ) Amitié Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Dear Friend ... I fully appreciate your views ... in a way I was trying to say that Astrology is valid ... and it's not a science in a strict sense of the word ... Somehow the moment someone mentions "Absolute" people are angry with the rigidity they percieve you to be showing ... I personally feel that "Rejecting biases" itself is a bias .. just kidding .. thanks you --- Jean CLEMENT <tashrif wrote: > Dear Surya, > > But I just had a question ... arent you > contradicting > yourself when you say a) it's a science of > observation > b) Kaal sarpa yoga is a post vedic invention?? > I mean if it's a science of observation then it's > possible that seers didnt see kaal sarpa yoga in > work > before the post modern astrologers came in to invent > them?? afterall it's a observation that they > document?? > > I am asking this because sometimes I am confused to > the extent to which we can subject ourselves to the > authority of tradition and dogma ... > > In cognition of jyotish "Navagrahas" are the rishi, > "Rasis" are the devatas > and "Nakshatras" are the Chandas aspects; the most > expressed values. The > cognition by Rishi Parashara is the cognition of its > Own Self, fully > developed state of Brahman... perfect wholeness. > > Perfect wholeness means that the complete and > perfect vision of all the > interactions and intricacies of the Play have been > revealed. But the > greatness of Parashara is that He has choosen only > those very few main > priciples that will make jyotish practical for its > goal, enough to be useful > for people of all races and all times for all yugas > and all Creations. > > The goal of Jyotish/Kalpa is to avert the danger > before it arises... Find a > period where a problem will show its dirty nose and > use the appropriate > yagya. No need to go too much into the useless > intricacies, details or depth > of our life. This is the beauty and practicality of > knowledge. This is the > Highway of Knowledge... You see a problem coming > from a distance? You don't > pass your time to analyse it too much... you just > blow its head and continue > your way doing only interesting things like enjoying > every steps of a > beautiful life on the path to moksha. > > This is not the science of our time or wise men of > our age that will decide > of the authenticity or validity of such vision. It > needed validation of many > others Rishis, Highly developed Sages and the course > of time to decide of > the genuineness for any vedic cognition. And in a > way this is, for the > people of present time, a kind of "you take it or > leave it!". > > Very difficult indeed for "scientific" minded people > to swallow, specially > in the West ) > > Amitié > Jean > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Dear Surya, > I fully appreciate your views ... in a way I was > trying to say that Astrology is valid ... and it's not > a science in a strict sense of the word ... > > Somehow the moment someone mentions "Absolute" people > are angry with the rigidity they percieve you to be > showing ... > > I personally feel that "Rejecting biases" itself is a > bias .. just kidding .. You are "absolutely" right... I sound much too assertive... this is the problem of my life ) Amitié Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 On 3/2/04 3:16 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" <surya_prakashv wrote: > On second thoughts you seem to have answered to some > extent ... > > However picture this ... > The actual moon dasa that lasts for 10 years has no > bearing on the actual movement of Moon in the skies Well, like I said, these things are symbolic. > > However, we consistently experience more of moon > influences in that period ... or in your own > terminology Frequencies that are associated with the > moon ... something which can be enhanced or countered > by wearing pearl ... it's like a set of magnetic > influences have come into your being in that period of > time ... now how does all this fit in with the idea of > Karma?? either we are defining Karma as a set of these > frequencies thrusted onto us that we are trying to > reduce with counter influences .. or the idea of > frequencies is wrong ... which way does the pendulum > swing?? My theories about karma could be seen as quite controversial by some, and I don't want to go too far into that on a list where people have deeply held beliefs... I respect their beliefs. However, suffice to say I see karma as an opportunity for resolution, out of which comes growth. Karma is about balance,and we each have the responsibility to right the portion of balance which we have upset in the first place. Transits, dasa periods etc are times of opportunity when the personalised energies are such that we can get to grips with what needs to be done. We can work with that and make best use of the time, or we can wallow and refuse to accept the gift of karma. What we don't manage this time can be taken on another time, just as we may experience similar situations or relationships time and again until we learn what we are being given the opportunity to learn, thus gaining insight, strength and knowledge. Remedial measures are, to my mind, means to tackle the requirements of the moment. If you expect them to do it all for you, then you won't get very far. > Thanks for your patience > Surya. > > --- Flick <rubysun wrote: >> On 3/2/04 2:39 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" >> <surya_prakashv wrote: >> >>> Flick, >>> >>> It will also be nice if you can share your view >> points >>> on the few q's i have put up >> >> Oh, I thought I had, towards the end of the message >> :-) >> >>> ... I believe that the >>> number of possibilities in any given situation >> equals >>> the number of beliefs held .. .. >> >> I agree. >>> >>> I am impressed with your methodical approach !! .. >> In >>> India we have the luxury of walking onto any >> street >>> and expecting to enter a temple of some size !! >> ... >>> but I guess the intent is more important .. >> because >>> ultimately God looks for the intent and not >> weather u >>> have worshipped him in temple or home ... there is >>> always a temple inside >> >> Once again I agree with all you say here. It reminds >> me of the tale of the >> farmer who gained enlightenment by chanting the >> jewel in the heart of the >> cow (the word being almost the same as lotus in the >> foreign tongue through >> which his teacher spoke to him)...the farmer's >> intent brought to him >> enlightenment. A salutary lesson for all who would >> put the letter before the >> inner essence of spirituality. >> >> Which other points did you wish me to respond to? >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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