on the Caste System and Do Gooders

January 18, 2004

Jean, I accept and appreciate your views, but I disagree with your perceptions

of Christianity as being a thorny bush. I believe you are quite right

regarding the notion of 'nice' or good acts but it just seems to me that one

ought to be cautious when placing judgement on the good works of others because

they are not Hindu. And given that most people judge other religions (be it

Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) based on what they DO as opposed to who they

ARE, it is a worthwhile pursuit to take pause for a moment and recognize that

others outside of Hinduism are trying in their own way to help ease the

suffering of others in the world.

Your thoughts on love are provoking and you've given much to think about on that topic.

Jean CLEMENT <tashrif (AT) wanadoo (DOT) fr> wrote:

Dear Stephanie Marie,From the start, the Christian religion is born using

trahison, lying, betrayal of the Master (betrayal of His teaching), torture and

kiling, plots and cunning, using the feeling of fear and terror... I am stopping

here because I do not have enough vocabulary in english and am disgusted just at

the thought of it...Just do not expect a thorny bush to give a sweet fruit.Same

with Hindus who are glorifying Gandhi even today. Such beautiful life, pure,

holy, just most adorable and generous example of how sweet and exemplary a

"spiritual life" can be, when Gandhi's dream was to destroy the system of

Castes that is the primary key for the survival of the Veda (to keep the

Primordial Sounds alive) during ou most dangerous yuga... and eventhough Indian

culture has the responsability to keep Ved alive, Ved is the most precious

treasure for the whole

of Humanity... Knowledge is not indian, german of brittish, it is simply

universal... so you see, I am feeling concerned )

There are many great Christian souls, who walk a dedicated and devout path,

doing much good in their communities and in the world. I've walked both paths

with tremendous devotion and I found that I was able to access God with a

greater sense of peace and tranquility through Hinduism (and I still have so

much growth).Don't try more to do good than to not do what you feel is bad...

because good means "Right" and you do not know what is right before being

spontaneously acting in harmony with cosmic laws (the wholeness of the natural

laws found at work in the universe) and this is nothing less than cosmic

Consciousness or Moksha...Don't be obsess to act only for the good of others

because, whatever you do, you only do it for yourself... the difference is in

the state of awareness, very little self, small self, growing experience of the

Self or full establishment in the Self but the result is somehow the same...

only

the Self... from little ego to the "will of God" is only the growing experience

of your own Self.Don't try to strain of exacerbate the felling of Love. Love

should be a simple, natural and spontaneous stream. Pure love is the

spontaneous experience for one who is, as we found in the vedic litterature,

"Svasthah". One who is Svasthah is one who is established in "Sva", in Atma.

Atma is eternel, it is the field of unlimited silence and unlimited dynamism.

To this state correspond a perfect healthy state of purity and body

fonctionning (full range; grossest to finest level of the nervous system).As my

master was saying : " ...When an ocean flows in waves it flows in peace within.

When a shallow pond moves to rise high in waves, it only stirs the mud at the

bottom, and the whole serenity of the pond is lost.When a heart, shallow as a

pond seeks to rise high in waves of love, it creates a muddle and brings out

the mud that was so "gracefully" hidden underneath.To

enjoy the ocean of love, we have to improve the magnitude of our hearts and gain

the depth of an ocean, unfathomable and full.Someone said that heaven is paved

with good intentions. Doing good is "nice", (better satwa than tamas)... but

what is important is to do "the Right Thing" (to act spontaneously in accord

with all the laws of Nature). People can look gentle and good and will do nice

acts of charity etc... this is "nice" indeed but what is important is really

what the people "Are"...Contact the "realm of the Father" deep within youand

everything else will be given to you in surplusthe same is said in the

Bhagavad-GitaNistrai-gunyo bhava Arjuna (Bhagavad-Gita, 2.45)Be without the

three Gunas, O Arjuna, gain Transcendental Consciousness; rise to Self-referral

consciousness and be fulfilled... transcend all the fields of relative life...

even the most refined state... Escape the field of binding influences or be

bound to the infinite,

unlimited only )... then...

Yogasthah kuru karmaani (Bhagavad-Gita, 2.48)Established in the state of

infinite, unbounded and perfect harmony of Pure Consciousness (Self-referral

Consciousness), perform action... this is the science of perfect action; action

spontaneously performed in tune with all the laws of Nature regulating the world

from point to infinity.

>From there the heart can swell to its full extent, its full Glory... Those are

steps from the Gita taught by the Great Lord to Arjuna who was the highest

expression of humanity at that time.AmitiéJean~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE

FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ To visit your group on the web, go

to:/ To from this

group, send an email to: Your use

of is subject to the

January 18, 2004

Dear Stephanie or Marie or Both?,

The caste system is necessary to keep the Ved alive? Very interesting. I would

be curious to hear other thoughts about this.

Do not judge the caste system by the mistakes, the abuses or the excess that are

so obvious in our time. The way to judge something like the caste system is not

to look how it is but in asking what is the purpose of such a system... I try

to make it short )

Life can be found in 2 states; relative and Absolute. This can be represented by

this infinitly old symbol as the cross. The relative field of life being the

horizontal bar and the vertical bar being the depth of absolute suporting the

relative field of life. By relative we should understand the matter: from the

level of grossest expression of matter to the level of the most refined subtle

and divine expressions of life.

If we go beyond (transcending) the finest and more refined level of the relative

life we experience a field that is not relative (there is nothing nor gross not

subtil), so we will call It the Absolute. If there is nothing in the absolute

then why not call it a void or a nothing (makes me remember a movie for

children). That's not the case... this field is full!!! All the laws (devatas)

responsable for the creation, the conservation and the destruction of all the

universes past present and futur are found in the Absolute... but in a virtual

way, in the "shape of potentiality". So this state of absolute is "made of

what?"... Consciousness... this field "IS" that's all...

Then some strange things happen in this state of Being. In this State that is

"Fullness" an element start to express itself (this is still a virtual

expression, nothing happen relatively speaking). This element opposed to the

"fullness" state of the Absolute can be called "emptiness" whose role is... to

negate this "fullness" status of Being, of Absolute awareness.

To imagine what happen just think about a HUGE sheet of white cloth...

infinite... white in all direction. This is enough to make everyone sleeping

) and this is the state in which the field of Being was... a kind of deep

sleep. But sudently a little point of black somewhere, emptiness playing it's

party. It's enough to make the state of Being becoming Consciousness because

now consciousness can become aware of "Something". But because this is a

virtual field with nothing relative to experience that makes Consciousness

being consciouss of... Itself... this is the Self-referral state of Pure

consciousness. In the State of Consciousness being conscious of Himself all the

virtual laws of nature, the Devatas are becoming lively and this infinite

dynamism are expressing themself in... Sounds. The original, primordial sounds

of life, the unbounded field of knowledge... the Vedas.

In the process of Self-referral Consciousness are born 3 "virtual" elements:

Rishis, Devatas and Chandas. Rishi being the knower, Chandas being the known

and Devata the process of knowing. Three aspects of the same reality (Samhita)

the fullness of knowledge

When Fullness start to "see" emptiness it become emptiness (You become what you

see). But becoming Emptiness, Fullness refuse to accept this poor status so

become fullness again... then because there was not other way to not being

attracted again to emptiness (nothing else to do I guess ) then Fullness

become emptiness etc... this is what is called this stir of Consciousness or

Infinite dynamism of Pure Consciousness, and from this stir of Pure

Consciousness, this liveliness, burst out the all relative creations.

This infinite dynamism is expressing itself (still virtually) as sound (sounds

and silence; mantras and Brahmanas) and forms (Devanagari or Sanskrit in our

days). In this state the form is the sound and the sound is the form. What it

means is that if you cognize a flower and you say flower to someone, this

person will not understand if he/she does not speak english but if you

pronounce the right sound or mantra, anywhere in the universes if an other

human being has his mind established in Atma or the Absolute, he/she will see

the exact form corresponding to this sound.

So long time ago, some highly developed human beings were able to established

their mind deeply in the state of absolute and were able to cognize those most

refined and delicate expressions of knowledge as primordial sounds. What they

were able to cognize?... themselves! The perfect state of their beautifully

developed nervous system was able to mirror the corresponding sounds expressing

a point of view of knowledge. It is not possible to cognize Pure Knowledge as a

whole, just because relative life is not able to express this amplitude of

Absolute without loosing it's status of relative life. Only the togetherness of

numerous perception (points of view) were able to give an approximation of this

absolute and perfectly harmonious structure of knowledge. The name of the

perception or cognition is the name of the quality of the nervous system of the

Rishi. Every aspect of the human Rishi vibrate and reverberate this specific

vibrations (sounds) of Knowledge and every aspect of the sounds (Richos) are

singing the glory of the Rishi.

These sounds and the knowledge expressed by the structure of these sounds with

the silent junction linking these primordial sounds are the sweet breath of God

on the most expressed and grossest field of relative life. They are the most

precious jewel, expression of infinite bliss on relative plane of life.

In our days these sound and the correct way to pronounce them are passed from

father to sons from the long lines of families originating from these rishis.

Because even now the genetic structure of these priests or Brahman has still a

little bit of the genetic quality of the original Rishi or the original

cognition and are more easily and more profondly mastered.

So the most important role of the Brahman is primarily the huge responsability

of keeping lively his heritage in the Primordial Sounds of Ved and to practice

chanting regularly to infuse the relative life with the greatly harmonizing

power of the Mantras. His life should only be turned toward truth and

knowledge, and his conduct should be pure and inspiring for the family, the

community and the whole world... As I say this is more a responsability than

something to flatter the ego. When we talk about the Shudras we think first

about service to the community. But the notion of service is the core to all

the different castes. The Brahman has to bring the notion of Service to it's

highest status... Service to the entire family of nations in keeping as pure

and as soothing as possible the breath of God, the breath of Brahman for the

all creation.