2-& Stephanie...from Mark, 1/18....re....Understanding Brahman.

[Guest guest]

Dear Stephanie:

To follow up your question from below:

"there is both a beauty and a fault to ritualistic worship?.....is the path to

enlightenment (meaning I assume, ritualistic worship) but is it not THE way in

which one can achieve enlightenment?

Well, this is a fascinating question regarding technique. Because, for a ritualistic practice

to be successful....it has to be able to transcend itself...and take us...to the

level of the divine...from where enlightenment comes.

My own, Guru, constantly says.... any prayer to God....that doesn't take us to God...

is a prayer... not successful in it's performance....

So...all rituals...formal or not...that take us...to the transcendental god....

are ideal....

Those that keep us in the relative, field alone...may not help us as much achieve enlightenment.

And your remark:

The dilemma I fear is that I sometimes find myself focusing more on the mundane

elements of life rather than enlightenment.

I feel is a good one... because... unless.... you have enough transcendence... in your life...

you'll always feel that the mundane...is encroaching...upon the sacred....

But, once the sacred is enlivened....and brought out...of it's hidden treasure....place...

then even the mundane starts to be sacred!

You also said:

"what are the intersections between the larger quests for enlightenment with

the day to day routines of pujas? More importantly, I would also like to know

what some of your thoughts (meaning anyone who would like to chime in) on the

role of women within this space?"

And I think I said...that if your inner techniques of pujas and

meditation...especially.... brings you deep enough towards the divine

itself.... then the goal of all yaguas, including pujas and meditations.... is

fulfilled.

And about women?

Well, my Guru says though the 'role' of men and women may be different....

still, the solution is the same. Contacting the Self...and enlivening and

unfolding that...

and then... living that....awakening... more and more...in our relative lives....

is the formula!

Now, as to the specific details of dharma or role of women....or even men, for that matter...

I've found Jyotish to be the most insightful and revealing.

Within each one of our Jyotish Charts...is exactly.... what our lives are about.

And you can see....what karmas...we're 'slated' to experience as well as what

'dharma'.... we're supposed to be living....

My guru has also said there are two types of dharma.....

There's an internal dharma and an external one.

Our internal dharma is our internal...growth of consciousness...and improving mind & body...

through all techniques of vedic science....

we can become more integrated....from within....

And as we become more integrated...from within...then....we'll find

our....outer, more relative dharma...becoming more clear...and obvious!

whether male or female...

The key is to discover your Jyotish nature...

That's very clearly indicative...of our dharmas... (both)!

And finally to respond to your last remarks:

There sometimes appears to be a contradiction. If enlightenment means moving

through and beyond these more ritualistic modes but the woman's role within

this tradition is to maintain them, then how is she set free? Especially when

so many of the rituals are based on the importance of marriage?

Don't forget ...even the woman's...dharma...is to be able...to meditate...and

become one with God...from within.... and thereby....living the 'beyond

....quality of the ritualistic modes....'

then...

after meditation...when both men and women emerge back into relative life....

their two 'outer dharmas'...though different....still are both enriched...by the

transcendental process.... and both...can enjoy their two....focuses!

There's no real contradiction....

take care

And great questions...

Sincerely,

Mark Kincaid

PS.... as some of you know, I also create a daily Jyotish newsletter that

watches the transits of each day...as well as other fascinating...Jyotish

topics. If you'd like to ...feel free to contact me at:

m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com. And the newsletter is free.

Stephanie Marie <chotoprajapati >

 

Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:10:33 -0800 (PST)

 

Re: Difficulties in Understanding Brahman.

There is no doubt that I need to study the Gita much more dilligently. But if I

am to understand Chandrashekhar's post correctly there is both a beauty and a

fault to ritualistic worship? On the one hand is the path to enlightenment but

it is not THE way in which one can achieve enlightenment?

I'm learning a form hinduism through the Bengali tradition. I do morning pujas,

Shiva on Monday, Lokenath in Tuesday, Loki on Thursday, Satynarayan on Full

Moons, and of course the major celebrations for Kali, Loki, Ma Durga, Shiva,

Krishna, etc. My hands are full just trying to master these rituals. The

dilemma I fear is that I sometimes find myself focusing more on the mundane

elements of life rather than enlightenment. But according the four paths of

life, it seems I'm walking the right path.

Ultimately, my question is... (sorry for the rambling) what are the

intersections between the larger quests for enlightenment with the day to day

routines of pujas? More importantly, I would also like to know what some of

your thoughts (meaning anyone who would like to chime in) on the role of women

within this space? There sometimes appears to be a contradiction. If

enlightenment means moving through and beyond these more ritualistic modes but

the woman's role within this tradition is to maintain them, then how is she set

free? Especially when so many of the rituals are based on the importance of

marriage?

Thank you all so much for your indepth and poignant responses. This is a tremendous help.

Best, Stephanie

Chandrashekhar Joglekar <cjoglekar2002 > wrote:

Dear Sanjayji and all others,

Bhagwat Geeta classifies a person at 4 different

levels. These are brahman, shatriya, vaishya and

shudra.

At same time it is said that people are of 3 natures

or Gunas. The three natures are satwik, Rajsik and

tamsik. The chapter 8 of Bhagwat Geeta explains the

Term "Brahman". The chapter opens with Arjunas

question to krisna "What is Brahman? What is Adhyatma?

What is Action? What is declared to be Adhibhuta? And

what is AdhiDaiva said to be?"

And Lord krisna answers these questions in the Chapter

8.

stanza 3.

" BRAHMAN is immperishable and the Adhibhutas

constitute my perishable nature"

What Bhagwat Geeta says is the aim of our life is to

become desireless. And Being Brahman is Being

desireless and the desireless never return to earth

plane.

Geeta chapter 8:stanza 11, 12 AND 13 LORD KRISNHA SAYS

"THAT WHICH IS DEECLARED IMPERISHABLE BY THE VEDA

KNOWERS; THAT INTO WHICH THE SELF CONTROLLED AND

DESIRE-FREED ENTER; THAT DESIRING WHICH BRAHMCHARYA IS

PRACTISED- THAT GOAL I WILL DECLARE TO THEE IN BRIEF"

"HVAING CLOSED ALL THE GATES, HAVING CONFINED THE MIND

IN THE HEART, HAVING FIXED THE LIFE-BREATH IN THE

"HEAD" ENGAGED IN THE PRACTICE OF CONCENTRATION,

UTTERING THE ONY SYLLABLED 'OM- (THE SYMBOL OF) THE

BRAHMAN- AND REMEMBERING ME, HE WHO DEPARTS, LEAVING

THE BODY, ATTAINS THE SUPREME GOAL"

Geeta chapter 8 , stanza 15.

" HAVING ATTAINED ME, THESE MAHATMAS (GREAT SOULS) DO

NOT TAKE BIRTH AGAIN, WHICH IS HOUSE OF PAIN AND IS

NON ITERNAL, THEY HAVING REACHED THE HIGHEST

PERFECTION, MOKSHA"

Stanza 16.

WORLDS UPTO THE "WORLD OF BRAHMAJI", ARE SUBJECT TO

REBIRTH, O ARJUNA, BUT WHO REACHES ME , O KAUNTEYA,

HAS NO BIRTH.

Stanza 21.

"THAT WHICH IS CALLED THE UNMANIFEST AND THE

IMPERISHABLE, THAT, THEY SAY IS THE HIGHEST GOAL. THEY

WHO REACH IT NEVER AGAIN RETURN. THIS IS MY HIGHEST

ABODE."

Stanza 23

"NOW AT WHAT TIME (PATH) DEAPRTING, YOGINS GO, NEVER

TO RETURN, AS ALSO TO RETURN, THAT TIME (PATH), I WILL

TELL YOU, O CHIEF OF BHARTAS"

Geeta chapter 8, STANZA 24

"FIRE, LIGHT, DAY TIME, THE BRIGHT FORTNIGHT, THE SIX

MONTHS OF NORTHEN SOLSTICE; FOLOWING THIS PATH , men

who know Brahman go to Brahman"

According to Upnishdic traditions

"He who lived a life of rituals (karmas) and worship

(Upasna), will walk the path of the gods and entering

through the sun will go beyond it to Brahmloka. There

he enjoys the supersensous Bliss till the end of the

"cycle", when along with the creator, he gets total

liberation. "

Geeta Chapter 8:25

" SMOKE , NIGHT TIME, THE DARK FORTNIGHT, ASLO SIX

MONTHS OF THE SOUTHERN SOLDICE, ATTAINING BY THESE TO

THE MOON, THE LUNAR LIGHT, THE YOGI RETURNS"

Those who leave the world after spending there life

time in doing good and performing rituals (karmas)

without worship (Upasna), are those who go to the

world of Ancestors (pitrus, world of heavens). On

having exhausted their merits, they return into

deserved embodiments ordered by individual Vasna

(desire) balance.

So these two stanzas make it clear that Brahman is

essentially one which is desireless. Because only

desireless spirit is liberated permanantly from the

perishable (the elements) and so never return to earth

plane.

So any one BORN is born with DESIRES and there for is

not a Brahmin. The way we attain these desires are the

three Gunas (satwik, rajsik nad tamsik) and only

satwik guna can lead us to become Brahmin.

OM.....

--- sanjaytechnology <sanjaytechnology >

wrote:

> All:

>

> The knowledge of Brahman and the desire to fell

> Brahman is the

> beginning of understanding of the "SELF". However,

> the statements

> below are very powerful especiall the one "The Isa

> Upanishad warns

> the students of Brahman not to take sides while

> approaching Brahman.

> Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim) enter

> blinding

> darkness and those who worship the manifest only

> (sambhutim) enter

> into greater darkness. The right approach is to

> worship both and

> realize one through the other." This is a very very

> powerful

> statement.

>

> Read the statement below, and then the article

> below.

>

> A man knocked on the God's door. "Who's is there?"

> asked God from

> within. "It's me," said the man. "Go away then.

> There is no room for

> two," said God. The man departed and wandered in the

> arid desert

> until he realized his error. Returning to the door,

> he knocked once

> again. "Who's is there?" asked God as before. "You,"

> answered the

> man. "Then come in," God replied.

>

>

> Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti.

>

> --Sanjay Aggarwal

>

> Difficulties in Understanding Brahman

> Any attempt to explain Brahman to the satisfaction

> of a mind that is

> driven by reason and familiar with the

> concretization thought is

> fraught with enormous difficulties, because that

> which is

> inexplicable cannot be explained by any amount of

> reasoning and

> logic. Brahman is beyond the senses, beyond the

> mind, beyond our

> intelligence and dreams. Then how can It be

> explained to the

> satisfaction of an intellectual and curious mind?

> The Rigvedic seers

> themselves had this problem in their mind when they

> called Him

> vaguely as "IT" or "This" or "That"

>

> The difficulty in understanding and knowing Brahman

> is well

> explained in the Kena Upanishad. Even gods are not

> free from their

> ignorance of Brahman (II.2.1). All that we can

> understand about

> Brahman is that we cannot understand It. Even after

> prolonged

> spiritual practice and meditation, one cannot even

> conclude whether

> one knows it or not. If a person thinks that he

> knows It, he does

> not know that he does not know. To whomsoever It is

> not known, It is

> known to him. But to whomsoever it is known, is not

> known to him. It

> is not understood by those who understand it and

> understood by those

> who do not understand it. It can be known only when

> one experiences

> directly at all levels of consciousness. (II. 2.

> 2-4).

>

> Trying to worship Brahman incorrectly and ignorantly

> without knowing

> the right approach can also result in great

> difficulties for a

> person who is on the path to salvation. The Isa

> Upanishad warns the

> students of Brahman not to take sides while

> approaching Brahman.

> Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim) enter

> blinding

> darkness and those who worship the manifest only

> (sambhutim) enter

> into greater darkness. The right approach is to

> worship both and

> realize one through the other.

>

> Even an enlightened seer like Yagnavalkya had

> difficulties in

> explaining the nature of Brahman and his creation.

> While speaking to

> Sakalya in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, he declares, "

> That Self is not

> this, not this. It is incomprehensible for it is not

> comprehended."

> When Gargi Vacaknavi asks him too many questions, in

> the same

> Upanishad he expresses his irritation saying, "

> Gargi, do not

> question too much. Otherwise your head may fall off.

> You are asking

> so many questions about a divinity about whom we are

> not expected to

> ask many questions."

>

> Else where in the same Upanishad he resorts to

> negative terminology

> to explain the inexplicable using such words as

> aksaram

> (imperishable), asthulam (not gross), ananu (not

> subtle), ahrasvam

> (nor short), adirgham (not long), achchayam (not

> shadow), atamah

> (not tamasic) and so on (Brihadaranyaka III.8.8).

>

> What is the original state of Brahman? Even the

> seers do not seem to

> have an answer. Uddalaka Aruni tells Svetaketu in

> Chandogya

> Upanishad, that in the beginning the Being was

> alone, one only, one

> without a second and in the next moment changes his

> statement

> stating that according to some in the beginning the

> non-Being was

> alone, without a second and that from that non-Being

> being was

> produced. (VI.2.1)

>

>

>

>

 

 

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