2-& Harish...from MarkK., 1/18....re.... Understanding Brahma & Guru

[Guest guest]

Dear All: & Harish.....

 

Suffer....derivations....are wonderful when we reflect on Brahman

and the delightful role that the Guru plays in life.

 

I think that's one of the reasons why I love Jyotish so much. It really

helped me understand the slight and subtle differences between the Self,

even God and especially Guru.

 

One of the things I think, however, that Western Astrology has right, is

the importance of the Self....or Sun. When we look at the Transits in life,

I could't help but notice how vital the Sun is.

 

All.... resolve around the Sun....

 

Mercury...or intellect....

Venus...and love...

Earth...and Moon...

Mars...

yes..even Jupiter and Sun....

obey the Sun....

 

Though of course I understand the most recent Jyotish flavor of appreciating

the importance of the Moon....

 

I also have been so lucky to find a Guru....who wanted to be a teacher more

than a God....to his disciples...

 

In fact when asked about 'his disciples'...he was very quick to say..."I

don't have disciples,...I'm hear to create Maha rishis".....

 

I love that...because as I've gotten closer and closer to the Self.... my

love of Guru....for that which helped me find the way... is supreme...

but I have to admit.... my love...of God....is even greater....

 

But, I can tell my Guru, doesn't mind.... he serves and loves the Self... as

I do.... and as he has taught me, led...me...to....

 

So...you're right...the best Guru's...are not one's who want you to serve,

them...but...my guru also has also said:

 

"the role of the Guru is to help the student...rob himself of his

individuality...and become the Self...of the Universe...."

 

So....they play their roles..... fascinating....

 

Jai Guru!

 

Jai God....

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

> Harish Trivedi <harishtri

>

> Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:16:48 -0800 (PST)

>

> Re: Difficulties in Understanding Brahman.

>

> Hello Roy Ramiki,

>

> Good words indeed. about Guru and his importance. !!

> Guru is a guide......

> Guru is a mile stone......Not the destination.

> On this road to knowledge, we need to walk on our own.

>

> Gravitating always around a Guru makes you a

> satellite .

> When I see people hero worshipping Gurus(So called)

> I feel pity.

> Such Gurus increase their importance by increasing

> their chelas.

> How many selfless Gurus you see these days?

> I know a very very few.

> Sorry to differ a bit.

> Rgds

> HT

> --- Roy Kamiki <nutrideias wrote:

>> Dear Sanjay Prabhu and members,

>>

>> I found your post on Brahman very inspiring.

>> Although I have a very strong

>> interest in Jyotish (study and follow JR Forum every

>> day), I also somehow

>> naturally gravitate to topics on the Absolute.

>>

>> Sanjay Prabhu, sorry for sounding so condescending,

>> but I would like to

>> stress the wonderful manner and approach of your

>> explanation on the subject.

>> You are always very cautious in referring to the

>> source of your statements

>> and affirmation. Sastric support is vital when

>> referring to knowledge of the

>> Absolute Truth. We all know that, as jivas and

>> limited beings, our senses

>> and intelligence alone is incapable of grasping or

>> understanding the

>> Absolute.

>>

>> I have read many books on Jyotish, and most authors

>> claim the importance of

>> studying the subject with the guidance of a mentor

>> (guru). It must be

>> transmitted from a jyotishi who has received the

>> needed spark from his own

>> mentor, and pass it on to the next disciple. The

>> same parampara (disciplic

>> succession) principle applies to topics on the

>> Absolute. Besides the support

>> of the Sastras, we need a Guru, and eventually

>> sadhus from whom to seek

>> inspiration and enthuse us on the path.

>>

>> This way, we can gradually come to understand the

>> Absolute Truth even while

>> conditioned by our limited senses, mind and

>> intelligence.

>>

>> Yasya deve para bhaktir

>> Yatha deve tatha gurau

>> Tasyaite kathita hy arthah

>> Prakasante mahatmanah

>>

>> (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23)

>>

>> "God is revealed to those who have fix devotion to

>> the Supreme Lord and is

>> conducted by a spiritual master, to whom he has the

>> same firm devotion and

>> faith."

>>

>> P.S. - Please forgive me for the poor translation.

>> The original text is not

>> in English.

>>

>> Roy Kamiki

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> -

>> "sanjaytechnology"

>> <sanjaytechnology

>> <>

>> Saturday, January 17, 2004 5:06 PM

>> Difficulties in Understanding Brahman.

>>

>>

>>> All:

>>>

>>> The knowledge of Brahman and the desire to fell

>> Brahman is the

>>> beginning of understanding of the "SELF". However,

>> the statements

>>> below are very powerful especiall the one "The Isa

>> Upanishad warns

>>> the students of Brahman not to take sides while

>> approaching Brahman.

>>> Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim)

>> enter blinding

>>> darkness and those who worship the manifest only

>> (sambhutim) enter

>>> into greater darkness. The right approach is to

>> worship both and

>>> realize one through the other." This is a very

>> very powerful

>>> statement.

>>>

>>> Read the statement below, and then the article

>> below.

>>>

>>> A man knocked on the God's door. "Who's is there?"

>> asked God from

>>> within. "It's me," said the man. "Go away then.

>> There is no room for

>>> two," said God. The man departed and wandered in

>> the arid desert

>>> until he realized his error. Returning to the

>> door, he knocked once

>>> again. "Who's is there?" asked God as before.

>> "You," answered the

>>> man. "Then come in," God replied.

>>>

>>>

>>> Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti.

>>>

>>> --Sanjay Aggarwal

>>>

>>> Difficulties in Understanding Brahman

>>> Any attempt to explain Brahman to the satisfaction

>> of a mind that is

>>> driven by reason and familiar with the

>> concretization thought is

>>> fraught with enormous difficulties, because that

>> which is

>>> inexplicable cannot be explained by any amount of

>> reasoning and

>>> logic. Brahman is beyond the senses, beyond the

>> mind, beyond our

>>> intelligence and dreams. Then how can It be

>> explained to the

>>> satisfaction of an intellectual and curious mind?

>> The Rigvedic seers

>>> themselves had this problem in their mind when

>> they called Him

>>> vaguely as "IT" or "This" or "That"

>>>

>>> The difficulty in understanding and knowing

>> Brahman is well

>>> explained in the Kena Upanishad. Even gods are not

>> free from their

>>> ignorance of Brahman (II.2.1). All that we can

>> understand about

>>> Brahman is that we cannot understand It. Even

>> after prolonged

>>> spiritual practice and meditation, one cannot even

>> conclude whether

>>> one knows it or not. If a person thinks that he

>> knows It, he does

>>> not know that he does not know. To whomsoever It

>> is not known, It is

>>> known to him. But to whomsoever it is known, is

>> not known to him. It

>>> is not understood by those who understand it and

>> understood by those

>>> who do not understand it. It can be known only

>> when one experiences

>>> directly at all levels of consciousness. (II. 2.

>> 2-4).

>>>

>>> Trying to worship Brahman incorrectly and

>> ignorantly without knowing

>>> the right approach can also result in great

>> difficulties for a

>>> person who is on the path to salvation. The Isa

>> Upanishad warns the

>>> students of Brahman not to take sides while

>> approaching Brahman.

>>> Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim)

>> enter blinding

>>> darkness and those who worship the manifest only

>> (sambhutim) enter

>>> into greater darkness. The right approach is to

>> worship both and

>>> realize one through the other.

>>>

>>> Even an enlightened seer like Yagnavalkya had

>> difficulties in

>>> explaining the nature of Brahman and his creation.

>> While speaking to

>>> Sakalya in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, he declares,

>> " That Self is not

>>> this, not this. It is incomprehensible for it is

>> not comprehended."

>>> When Gargi Vacaknavi asks him too many questions,

>> in the same

>>> Upanishad he expresses his irritation saying, "

>> Gargi, do not

>>> question too much. Otherwise your head may fall

>> off. You are asking

>>> so many questions about a divinity about whom we

>> are not expected to

>>> ask many questions."

>>>

>>> Else where in the same Upanishad he resorts to

>> negative terminology

>>> to explain the inexplicable using such words as

>> aksaram

>>> (imperishable), asthulam (not gross), ananu (not

>> subtle), ahrasvam

>>> (nor short), adirgham (not long), achchayam (not

>> shadow), atamah

>>> (not tamasic) and so on (Brihadaranyaka III.8.8).

>>>

>>> What is the original state of Brahman? Even the

>> seers do not seem to

>>> have an answer. Uddalaka Aruni tells Svetaketu in

>> Chandogya

>>

> === message truncated ===

>

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[Guest guest]

Hello Mark,

Glad to know your Guruji's thoughts thro' you.

Must be a very good human being.

I was refering to spiritual Gurus.

Rgds

HT

 

 

 

 

 

 

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