Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 For the sake of curiosity and for one that is located thousands of miles from India. ihave been wondering who in here is a true Guru and who has been initiated by a Guru. Thank You Jose Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Wish you happy new year. With respect to your curiosity, I would like to comment that the gut feeling or perception or attitude which lies in an intrinsic manner in the question is only gets reflected in consideration of one person towards the other person. Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Hi Harishji Yes, I see what you mean. As a matter of fact, I fully understand your point of view. I wouldn't be surprised if statistics proved 99% of the so-called gurus to be bogus. But, let us not lament or feel pity for the misfortune of many (which may include myself) of being cheated or fooled by false gurus. During the battle of Kuruksetra, while Arjuna was confused as to whether or not he should fight the battle, Krsna said the following to his friend: "While speaking wisely, you are lamenting needlessly. The wise do not lament nether for the living nor for the dead." (Bhagavad Gita 2.11) Although the context of this verse was to stress our true nature of ourselves, which is spiritual and eternal, as students of jyotish, we all learn that charts reflect the results of the native's previous activities, that is, their Karma. And the Law of Karma is simply stated - 'as you sow, so shall you reap'. >From this very basic principle, we can conclude that we all abide by the Law of Nature, and there is no such thing as victims (or innocent victims), and therefore, no cheated or fooled. Each action inexorably causes some effect, and each effect causes further effects. This cascade of effects becomes exceedingly intricate and perplexing, embroiling us in extended matrices of cause and effect, which bind us and the world together into a vast, self-regulating system. As Mahatma Gandhi is reported to have said, 'After inventing the Law of Karma, God was able to retire.' Some houses directly govern poorvapunya, or past-life credit, such as the 5th and the 9th. The 9th house is the best house of the horoscope, and as such any planet posited within will greatly flourish. But, one of the predominant significations of the 9th house is 'guru', and an afflicted bhava or debilitated planets such as Sun, Moon or Mercury posited in this house usually render false or fraudulent gurus. We just has to pray that the native of such affliction can gradually evolve, whether in the next life or in the hundredth life, eventually encounter a genuine guru. Please forgive me if this mail contains any bold statements. I did not mean to discredit your comments or counteract your beliefs. Just sharing some personally realisations. Roy - "Harish Trivedi" <harishtri <> Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:16 AM Re: Difficulties in Understanding Brahman. > Hello Roy Ramiki, > > Good words indeed. about Guru and his importance. !! > Guru is a guide...... > Guru is a mile stone......Not the destination. > On this road to knowledge, we need to walk on our own. > > Gravitating always around a Guru makes you a > satellite . > When I see people hero worshipping Gurus(So called) > I feel pity. > Such Gurus increase their importance by increasing > their chelas. > How many selfless Gurus you see these days? > I know a very very few. > Sorry to differ a bit. > Rgds > HT > --- Roy Kamiki <nutrideias wrote: > > Dear Sanjay Prabhu and members, > > > > I found your post on Brahman very inspiring. > > Although I have a very strong > > interest in Jyotish (study and follow JR Forum every > > day), I also somehow > > naturally gravitate to topics on the Absolute. > > > > Sanjay Prabhu, sorry for sounding so condescending, > > but I would like to > > stress the wonderful manner and approach of your > > explanation on the subject. > > You are always very cautious in referring to the > > source of your statements > > and affirmation. Sastric support is vital when > > referring to knowledge of the > > Absolute Truth. We all know that, as jivas and > > limited beings, our senses > > and intelligence alone is incapable of grasping or > > understanding the > > Absolute. > > > > I have read many books on Jyotish, and most authors > > claim the importance of > > studying the subject with the guidance of a mentor > > (guru). It must be > > transmitted from a jyotishi who has received the > > needed spark from his own > > mentor, and pass it on to the next disciple. The > > same parampara (disciplic > > succession) principle applies to topics on the > > Absolute. Besides the support > > of the Sastras, we need a Guru, and eventually > > sadhus from whom to seek > > inspiration and enthuse us on the path. > > > > This way, we can gradually come to understand the > > Absolute Truth even while > > conditioned by our limited senses, mind and > > intelligence. > > > > Yasya deve para bhaktir > > Yatha deve tatha gurau > > Tasyaite kathita hy arthah > > Prakasante mahatmanah > > > > (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23) > > > > "God is revealed to those who have fix devotion to > > the Supreme Lord and is > > conducted by a spiritual master, to whom he has the > > same firm devotion and > > faith." > > > > P.S. - Please forgive me for the poor translation. > > The original text is not > > in English. > > > > Roy Kamiki > > > > > > > > > > - > > "sanjaytechnology" > > <sanjaytechnology > > <> > > Saturday, January 17, 2004 5:06 PM > > Difficulties in Understanding Brahman. > > > > > > > All: > > > > > > The knowledge of Brahman and the desire to fell > > Brahman is the > > > beginning of understanding of the "SELF". However, > > the statements > > > below are very powerful especiall the one "The Isa > > Upanishad warns > > > the students of Brahman not to take sides while > > approaching Brahman. > > > Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim) > > enter blinding > > > darkness and those who worship the manifest only > > (sambhutim) enter > > > into greater darkness. The right approach is to > > worship both and > > > realize one through the other." This is a very > > very powerful > > > statement. > > > > > > Read the statement below, and then the article > > below. > > > > > > A man knocked on the God's door. "Who's is there?" > > asked God from > > > within. "It's me," said the man. "Go away then. > > There is no room for > > > two," said God. The man departed and wandered in > > the arid desert > > > until he realized his error. Returning to the > > door, he knocked once > > > again. "Who's is there?" asked God as before. > > "You," answered the > > > man. "Then come in," God replied. > > > > > > > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal > > > > > > Difficulties in Understanding Brahman > > > Any attempt to explain Brahman to the satisfaction > > of a mind that is > > > driven by reason and familiar with the > > concretization thought is > > > fraught with enormous difficulties, because that > > which is > > > inexplicable cannot be explained by any amount of > > reasoning and > > > logic. Brahman is beyond the senses, beyond the > > mind, beyond our > > > intelligence and dreams. Then how can It be > > explained to the > > > satisfaction of an intellectual and curious mind? > > The Rigvedic seers > > > themselves had this problem in their mind when > > they called Him > > > vaguely as "IT" or "This" or "That" > > > > > > The difficulty in understanding and knowing > > Brahman is well > > > explained in the Kena Upanishad. Even gods are not > > free from their > > > ignorance of Brahman (II.2.1). All that we can > > understand about > > > Brahman is that we cannot understand It. Even > > after prolonged > > > spiritual practice and meditation, one cannot even > > conclude whether > > > one knows it or not. If a person thinks that he > > knows It, he does > > > not know that he does not know. To whomsoever It > > is not known, It is > > > known to him. But to whomsoever it is known, is > > not known to him. It > > > is not understood by those who understand it and > > understood by those > > > who do not understand it. It can be known only > > when one experiences > > > directly at all levels of consciousness. (II. 2. > > 2-4). > > > > > > Trying to worship Brahman incorrectly and > > ignorantly without knowing > > > the right approach can also result in great > > difficulties for a > > > person who is on the path to salvation. The Isa > > Upanishad warns the > > > students of Brahman not to take sides while > > approaching Brahman. > > > Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim) > > enter blinding > > > darkness and those who worship the manifest only > > (sambhutim) enter > > > into greater darkness. The right approach is to > > worship both and > > > realize one through the other. > > > > > > Even an enlightened seer like Yagnavalkya had > > difficulties in > > > explaining the nature of Brahman and his creation. > > While speaking to > > > Sakalya in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, he declares, > > " That Self is not > > > this, not this. It is incomprehensible for it is > > not comprehended." > > > When Gargi Vacaknavi asks him too many questions, > > in the same > > > Upanishad he expresses his irritation saying, " > > Gargi, do not > > > question too much. Otherwise your head may fall > > off. You are asking > > > so many questions about a divinity about whom we > > are not expected to > > > ask many questions." > > > > > > Else where in the same Upanishad he resorts to > > negative terminology > > > to explain the inexplicable using such words as > > aksaram > > > (imperishable), asthulam (not gross), ananu (not > > subtle), ahrasvam > > > (nor short), adirgham (not long), achchayam (not > > shadow), atamah > > > (not tamasic) and so on (Brihadaranyaka III.8.8). > > > > > > What is the original state of Brahman? Even the > > seers do not seem to > > > have an answer. Uddalaka Aruni tells Svetaketu in > > Chandogya > > > === message truncated === > > > > > Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > / > > > > > Your > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Hello Roy, No....I am not offended. In fact , if I can say, I am beyond being offended. Speaking about GURUS, (The So called), my research indicates that they are RAHU in disguise of Guru. Rahu is the only planet which owns Cheating as his one of the portfolios. He is Mayavi and can make hiself seen in any form. I hope you know how he got Amrita. He cannot show his power without people/mass around.He has a huge appetite, unquenchable thirst and unending Magnetic pulling power of attrection. Lord of the chemistry ....is this Rahu. So let us steer ourselves to God head and become Niskama as far as possible. Only then Rahu cannot trouble us. Thus he has power to steer you to God. !! I love this scoundrel Rahu. (Natural it is since I am born in Ashlesha !!!) Rgds HT -- Roy Kamiki <nutrideias wrote: > Hi Harishji > > Yes, I see what you mean. As a matter of fact, I > fully understand your point > of view. I wouldn't be surprised if statistics > proved 99% of the so-called > gurus to be bogus. But, let us not lament or feel > pity for the misfortune of > many (which may include myself) of being cheated or > fooled by false gurus. > > During the battle of Kuruksetra, while Arjuna was > confused as to whether or > not he should fight the battle, Krsna said the > following to his friend: > "While speaking wisely, you are lamenting > needlessly. The wise do not lament > nether for the living nor for the dead." (Bhagavad > Gita 2.11) > > Although the context of this verse was to stress our > true nature of > ourselves, which is spiritual and eternal, as > students of jyotish, we all > learn that charts reflect the results of the > native's previous activities, > that is, their Karma. And the Law of Karma is simply > stated - 'as you sow, > so shall you reap'. > > From this very basic principle, we can conclude that > we all abide by the Law > of Nature, and there is no such thing as victims (or > innocent victims), and > therefore, no cheated or fooled. Each action > inexorably causes some effect, > and each effect causes further effects. This cascade > of effects becomes > exceedingly intricate and perplexing, embroiling us > in extended matrices of > cause and effect, which bind us and the world > together into a vast, > self-regulating system. As Mahatma Gandhi is > reported to have said, 'After > inventing the Law of Karma, God was able to retire.' > > Some houses directly govern poorvapunya, or > past-life credit, such as the > 5th and the 9th. The 9th house is the best house of > the horoscope, and as > such any planet posited within will greatly > flourish. But, one of the > predominant significations of the 9th house is > 'guru', and an afflicted > bhava or debilitated planets such as Sun, Moon or > Mercury posited in this > house usually render false or fraudulent gurus. > > We just has to pray that the native of such > affliction can gradually evolve, > whether in the next life or in the hundredth life, > eventually encounter a > genuine guru. > > Please forgive me if this mail contains any bold > statements. I did not mean > to discredit your comments or counteract your > beliefs. Just sharing some > personally realisations. > > Roy > > > > > - > "Harish Trivedi" <harishtri > <> > Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:16 AM > Re: Difficulties in Understanding > Brahman. > > > > Hello Roy Ramiki, > > > > Good words indeed. about Guru and his importance. > !! > > Guru is a guide...... > > Guru is a mile stone......Not the destination. > > On this road to knowledge, we need to walk on our > own. > > > > Gravitating always around a Guru makes you a > > satellite . > > When I see people hero worshipping Gurus(So > called) > > I feel pity. > > Such Gurus increase their importance by increasing > > their chelas. > > How many selfless Gurus you see these days? > > I know a very very few. > > Sorry to differ a bit. > > Rgds > > HT > > --- Roy Kamiki <nutrideias wrote: > > > Dear Sanjay Prabhu and members, > > > > > > I found your post on Brahman very inspiring. > > > Although I have a very strong > > > interest in Jyotish (study and follow JR Forum > every > > > day), I also somehow > > > naturally gravitate to topics on the Absolute. > > > > > > Sanjay Prabhu, sorry for sounding so > condescending, > > > but I would like to > > > stress the wonderful manner and approach of your > > > explanation on the subject. > > > You are always very cautious in referring to the > > > source of your statements > > > and affirmation. Sastric support is vital when > > > referring to knowledge of the > > > Absolute Truth. We all know that, as jivas and > > > limited beings, our senses > > > and intelligence alone is incapable of grasping > or > > > understanding the > > > Absolute. > > > > > > I have read many books on Jyotish, and most > authors > > > claim the importance of > > > studying the subject with the guidance of a > mentor > > > (guru). It must be > > > transmitted from a jyotishi who has received the > > > needed spark from his own > > > mentor, and pass it on to the next disciple. The > > > same parampara (disciplic > > > succession) principle applies to topics on the > > > Absolute. Besides the support > > > of the Sastras, we need a Guru, and eventually > > > sadhus from whom to seek > > > inspiration and enthuse us on the path. > > > > > > This way, we can gradually come to understand > the > > > Absolute Truth even while > > > conditioned by our limited senses, mind and > > > intelligence. > > > > > > Yasya deve para bhaktir > > > Yatha deve tatha gurau > > > Tasyaite kathita hy arthah > > > Prakasante mahatmanah > > > > > > (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23) > > > > > > "God is revealed to those who have fix devotion > to > > > the Supreme Lord and is > > > conducted by a spiritual master, to whom he has > the > > > same firm devotion and > > > faith." > > > > > > P.S. - Please forgive me for the poor > translation. > > > The original text is not > > > in English. > > > > > > Roy Kamiki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > "sanjaytechnology" > > > <sanjaytechnology > > > <> > > > Saturday, January 17, 2004 5:06 PM > > > Difficulties in Understanding > Brahman. > > > > > > > > > > All: > > > > > > > > The knowledge of Brahman and the desire to > fell > > > Brahman is the > > > > beginning of understanding of the "SELF". > However, > > > the statements > > > > below are very powerful especiall the one "The > Isa > > > Upanishad warns > > > > the students of Brahman not to take sides > while > > > approaching Brahman. > > > > Those who worship the unmanifest (asambhutim) > === message truncated === Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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