Japa and Diksha- Gochara effects?

[Guest guest]

Dear Sourav, Rosemary & Visti, namaste

 

In addition to Rosemary's question on vijnanaamsa or upaasanaamsa(D-20), I would

like to add one more question with respect to the voiced vs silent mantra japa.

Since 2003, I have been chanting mantras and after nearly four years, I find

that I prefer to chant the mantras audibly rather than silently. Even if I

chant silently, it must be accompanied by movement of lips. This is rather

surprising to me that even after much time spent daily in mantra reciting, I am

unable to progress to the mental (manasa) japa at all. But there are umpteen

number of occasions (such as today!) when I wake up in the morning thinking of

the rishis or the parampara mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' on my lips so I believe

that the mantra chanting has a definite effect on me.

 

I would like to know if this can be deduced from the upaasanaamsa and what are

the difficulties foreseen in the same varga? If you dont have my birth details,

here they are:

 

28/09/1971, 11.01 am at Chennai (Theyegaraja Nagar), India +0530 H

 

Thanks and best regards

Hari

 

On 2/24/06, Sourav <souravc108 > wrote:

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

Dear Rosemary,

Namaskar. Be sure that I am just beginning to

learn D-20 secrets from Sanjay-ji and Visti-ji and others. What I shared are

some of the things I learned in my studies and some of my convictions. I will

eagerly await answers from the Gurus on your questions on meditation and D-20.

Very good question.

Best wishes,

Sourav

===============================================================

, "Rosemary Innes-Jones" <

rf.innes-jones wrote:>> Om Brihaspataaye Namah> > Hare Rama Krishna > >

Dear Sourav, Voja and Vistiji,> > Thankyou for this enlightening discussion.

Having had diksha mantra for 15 years, and Japa for 4 it is very helpful to

have Japa explained so well.

> > At first I wanted to write " that The idea of any mantra is to take the mind

back to God, rather than develop the mind and set it up for a particular

experience" But on re- reading what you have written, it is saying the same

thing, but in steps. Which is just like Japa chanting rather than Dyanam

(meditation)

> > From my own experience, Diksha is pre-eminent. However Japa tames or trains

the mind, like a broom sweeping clean the cobwebs by action in a sense, rather

than pure dissolving of impediments by Dyanam meditation- Diksha mantra.

> Both appear to be necessary and practised by the wise.> > Question to Sourav

and Vistiji, can we see in the D20 the efficacy of both changing with gochara (

transits)? and how to help counsel accordingly.

> > Kindest regards> Rosemary Innes-Jones> - >

Sourav >

> Friday, February 24, 2006 5:58 AM> Subject:

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Visti Ji Please Help> > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > Dear

Voja,

> > namaskar. In my own words kindly let me add. Chanting audibly is engagement

of the senses in the process of prayer. This helps in initial concentration.

You will see that you would rarely be able to concentrate on something or do

something if you talk. Just like that, if you chant audibly it lets you gather

yourself and engage completely in the act of chanting. It is said that

inaudible chanting (w/o even moving the lips ) is best because Mind is then

workind at its best and it doesn't have to be bothered with the job of moving

the muscles of the mouth. But inaudible chanting requires you to develop

concentration and get used to the rythym of the mantra first. Then

subsequently, you will develop smarana (thinking) about God while you are

performing mental japa. So it is a sequential process and if you are an adept,

you can directly start chanting mentally if you can sustain it for a long time,

that is.

> > The idea of any mantra is to develop the mind and set it up for a particular

experience. It is said that if mind desires to have an experience it will have

it. Hence all spiritual disciplines are geared towards control of thought

(samyama). The more concentrated a thought is, the more likely is there a

physical or para-physical manifestation of that thought/desire. So smarana is

very important.

> > In my opinion to develop this concentration is more important than the

method of chanting. > > Hope I could share my ideas with you on this.> > Best

wishes,> > Sourav

[Guest guest]

margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> |om| Dear Sourav, Rosemary & Visti,

namaste In addition to Rosemary's question on vijnanaamsa or

upaasanaamsa(D-20), I would like to add one more question with respect to the

voiced vs silent mantra japa. Since 2003, I have been chanting mantras and

after nearly four years, I find that I prefer to chant the mantras audibly

rather than silently. Even if I chant silently, it must be accompanied by

movement of lips. This is rather surprising to me that even after much time

spent daily in mantra reciting, I am unable to progress to the mental (manasa)

japa at all. But there are umpteen number of occasions (such as today!) when I

wake up in the morning thinking of the rishis or the parampara mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna' on my lips so I believe that the

mantra chanting has a definite effect on me. I would like to know if this

can be deduced from the upaasanaamsa and what are the difficulties foreseen in

the same varga? If you dont have my birth details, here they are: 28/09/1971,

11.01 am at Chennai (Theyegaraja Nagar), India +0530 H Thanks and best regards

Hari On 2/24/06, Sourav <souravc108 > wrote: || Hare Rama Krishna ||

Dear Rosemary, Namaskar. Be sure that I am just

beginning to learn D-20 secrets from Sanjay-ji and Visti-ji and others. What I

shared are some of the things I learned in my studies and some of my

convictions. I will eagerly await answers from the Gurus on your questions on

meditation and D-20. Very good question. Best wishes, Sourav

=============================================================== --- In

, "Rosemary Innes-Jones" < rf.innes-jones

wrote:>> Om Brihaspataaye Namah> > Hare Rama Krishna > > Dear Sourav, Voja and

Vistiji,> > Thankyou for this enlightening discussion. Having had diksha mantra

for 15 years, and Japa for 4 it is very helpful to have Japa explained so well.

> > At first I wanted to write " that The idea of any mantra is to take the

mind back to God, rather than develop the mind and set it up for a particular

experience" But on re- reading what you have written, it is saying the same

thing, but in steps. Which is just like Japa chanting rather than Dyanam

(meditation) > > From my own experience, Diksha is pre-eminent. However Japa

tames or trains the mind, like a broom sweeping clean the cobwebs by action in

a sense, rather than pure dissolving of impediments by Dyanam meditation-

Diksha mantra. > Both appear to be necessary and practised by the wise.> >

Question

to Sourav and Vistiji, can we see in the D20 the efficacy of both changing with

gochara ( transits)? and how to help counsel accordingly. > > Kindest regards>

Rosemary Innes-Jones> - > Sourav >

> Friday, February 24, 2006 5:58 AM>

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Visti Ji Please Help> > > || Hare Rama Krishna

||> > Dear Voja, > > namaskar. In my own words kindly let me add. Chanting

audibly is engagement of the senses in the process of prayer. This helps in

initial concentration. You will see that you would rarely be able to

concentrate on something or do something if you talk. Just like that, if you

chant audibly it lets you gather yourself and engage completely in the act of

chanting. It is said that inaudible chanting (w/o even moving the lips ) is best

because Mind is then workind at its best and it doesn't have to be bothered with

the job of moving the muscles of the mouth. But inaudible chanting requires you

to develop concentration and get used to the rythym of the mantra first. Then

subsequently, you will develop smarana (thinking) about God while you are

performing mental japa. So it is a sequential process and if you are an adept,

you can directly start chanting mentally if you can sustain it for a long time,

that is. > > The idea of any mantra is to develop the mind and set it up for a

particular experience. It is said that if mind desires to have an experience it

will have it. Hence all spiritual disciplines are geared towards control of

thought (samyama). The more concentrated a thought is, the more likely is there

a physical or para-physical manifestation of that thought/desire. So smarana is

very important. > > In my opinion to develop this concentration is more

important than the method of chanting. > > Hope I could share my ideas with you

on this.> > Best wishes,> > Sourav

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[Guest guest]

Dear Michal, namaste

 

Well, yes the thought that Mercury as the natural significator of speech could

have something to do with this had crossed my mind earlier...thanks for your

observations in this regard. You make some interesting points regarding Srila

Prabhupada's chart...probably the debilitation of Me & Ve made Prabhupada to

strive harder to attain bhakti in his singing? I am hoping that Visti may give

some insights into the matter based on his research in upasanaamsa.

 

regards

Hari

 

On 2/25/06, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal > wrote:

:: Hare Rama Krsna ::Dear Hari,Mercury the natural significator of speech and

also 5th Lord in D20 is exalted (It is conjoined A5 which is the manifestation

of the 5th house matters, such as mantra). It is also exalted in Rasi chart.

Perhaps this is too simple an explanation for your preference, but one I

thought I'd offer anyway.

In Srila Prabhupad's chart A5 is conjoined Venus and aspected by Mercury, both

are debilitated. Perhaps the conjunction with Venus made him fond of singing

the mantra's. Venus is debilitated in Rasi also, and he also became friends

with the world famous band the Beatles. Maybe Sri Chaitanya's chart would be

interesting to see also, for his singing the Maha Mantra.

Respectfully,Michal:: Om Namo Narayanaya ::