Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

[Guest guest]

color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna||

Dear Michael,

Namaskar

I

totally agree with you, where is the confusion?

Best

wishes,

***

Visti Larsen

Email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

Web: http://srigaruda.com

bookman;color:#993366"> & http://astrovisti.com

***

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of Michael Travass

26 May 2005 04:23

 

RE: [Om Krishna

Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hi Visti,

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">COVA examples don't match Susan's analysis

and your comments.

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Chart 59 of a female...COVA considers 5th

house.

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">BTW Susan...count zodiacally if Lagna is

in odd sign and the reverse for Lagna in even. This holds good for D7.

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">There seems to be some confusion

here...the lord of the pregnancy (also lord of child) used to determine

sex of the children for both male and female is the 5th house lord and the

7th for the second and so and so forth. The count is clockwise or anti

depending on whether the Lagna is in odd or even sign.

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">The controlling house in the male chart is

the 5th and in the female is the 9th. And if the lord of the child is placed in

the maraka house (6th and 10th for male and female resp) then the pregnancy is

lost. The controlling house is different house of pregnancy.

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">My understanding seems to be different.

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Could you elaborate please.

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Thanks,

12.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Mike

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

 

 

[] On

Behalf Of Visti Larsen

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 3:18 AM

 

RE: [Om Krishna

Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna||

Dear Susan,

Namaskar

Comments

below.

Best

wishes,

***

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Web: http://srigaruda.com

color:navy"> & http://astrovisti.com

***

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of abalonemoon (AT) aol (DOT) com

25 May 2005 02:50

 

Re: [Om Krishna

Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

12.0pt">

Dear Visti,

Thanks so much for your comments and for all your

help.

One point of clarification.

<< [Visti] Great. Also add; for women see

ninth house and for men see fifth

house in the saptamsa >>

So for a woman, should I be examining the 9th

house, and not the 5th house,

in the Saptamsa chart? The 5th house is

examined for male charts only? (I am

assuming that in the Rasi chart, I should still be

looking at the 5th house

for both women and men.)

[Visti]

Actually Sanjayji uses 9th for women in both rasi and saptamsa.

Is the procedure for determining the first house

of pregnancy, (zodiacal or

reverse, depending on if lagna is odd or even),

the same for male and female

charts? Or does this change too?

[Visti]

This doesn’t change.

Do any of the rules for determining the gender of

the child change in a

female chart as opposed to a male chart?

[Visti]

Gender is best determined from the males chart actually.

I am attaching one chart to look at for

determining gender of children.

According to my understanding of the rules for

determining gender, the chart shows

that the first child should be a girl and the

second child should be a boy.

However, in actuality, the woman's first child is

a boy and her second child

is a girl. Could you please take a look at

this chart for me and see what is

causing the reversal genders? (I am pretty

sure that this woman has never had

a miscarriage or an abortion or any other

complicating factors that could have

thrown off the count.)

[Visti]

Your analysis is right, but the problem is that the mens chart is much more

clear in this regard.

For this i

compensate with a different technique which is only indicative. In the rasi

chart the ninth lord is Venus and has gained three navamsa (being in Cancer

navamsa). So first navamsa (Taurus) has Jupiter and indicates a boy. Gemini is

next and indicates a girl or no child due to Moon and Ketu being there. Cancer

indicates nothing as there is no planets. So two children are possible and

these are a boy first and then a girl. This method of analysis is based on

bhägya or fortune, and the count should be verified in the saptamsa.

Saptamsa Lagna is Cancer (even) with no planets in

it. Count is reverse.

Ninth house (1st house of pregnancy) has Pisces

with no planets.

9th lord Jupiter is alone in Taurus, and is not in

parivartana.

Taurus should indicate a girl child. (But

the child is a boy.)

Seventh house has Saturn and Mars in Capricorn.

7th lord Saturn is retrograde in its own sign in

7th house.

Mars is exalted in Capricorn and should indicate a

boy child. (But the child

is a girl.)

Ketu is in the 6th house, so the 3rd house of

pregnancy (5th house) crosses

the Ra/Ke axis. (There is no third child.)

There is no parivartana in the D7 chart.

Please let me know if I am evaluating this chart

correctly and why my gender

predictions are coming out reversed? Are

there some other factors that I am

failing to take into consideration that are influencing

the gender of the

children? I am attaching the chart as a jhd

file so you can take a look at it.

Let me know if you are unable to open the chart

file.

[Visti] You

did everything right, but womens charts are for some reason not clear when it

comes to saptamsa.

Thanks so much.

Best Wishes,

Susan

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

~ om tat sat

~

10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the

Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for

animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one

free chart reading today

~

om tat sat ~

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the

Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for

animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one

free chart reading today

12.0pt">

~

om tat sat ~

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the

Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for

animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one

free chart reading today

[Guest guest]

color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna||

Dear Samir,

Namaskar

Please make

sure that you read ALL the mails i

have sent to Susan carefully. For this navamsa method use 9th lord

for female and 5th lord for male.

Always use

9th from upapada, nevermind if its male or female native.

We finally

decide from Saptamsa. Saptamsa can change almost everything.

Best

wishes,

***

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Web: http://srigaruda.com

color:navy"> &

10.0pt;font-family:bookman">http://astrovisti.com

***

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of Samir Shah

26 May 2005 09:35

 

[Om Krishna

Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

12.0pt">

|| Om

Krsna Guru ||

Dear Vistiji, Namaskar

Given that the method of Navamsas gained is based on bhagya, do we use the 9th

lord for both male and female charts?

Presumably in male charts, if this method were to differ from the indications

of the Saptamsa in terms of sex of children, we would give greater weight to

the Saptamsa. Is this correct?

Pranaam,

Samir

12.0pt">______________________

Message: 10

Wed, 25 May 2005 12:50:17 +0200

"Visti Larsen" <visti (AT) (DOT) org>

RE: Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

||Hare Rama Krsna||

Dear Hari, Namaskar

If you see the same chart, i saw the progression based on the position in

Rasi vs. Navamsa.

Example: Venus is in Aries Rasi and in Cancer Navamsa. So difference is 4

signs, but from Aries it has only progressed three, so three signs is the

answer.

Next i see those particular signs in the rasi;

Example: I see Taurus, Gemini and Cancer in the Rasi and see the sexes of

the children and etc.

Lastly i check the Saptamsa to verify the ammount of children, i.e. three

children could be indicated but if the saptamsa only shows two, then the

person may decide to limit their progeny to two.

Best wishes,

***

Visti Larsen

Email: <

visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

Web: <

http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com

& <

http://astrovisti.com>

http://astrovisti.com

***

12.0pt">

~

om tat sat ~

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the

Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for

animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one

free chart reading today

[Guest guest]

color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna||

Dear Susan,

Namaskar

Make sure

you read the other mail i’ve sent to Samir.

Comments

below.

Best wishes,

***

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Web: http://srigaruda.com

color:navy"> & http://astrovisti.com

***

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of abalonemoon (AT) aol (DOT) com

26 May 2005 05:27

 

Re: [Om Krishna

Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

12.0pt">

10.0pt">Dear Visti,

Thanks so much for your reply. A few

comments below.

<< [Visti] Actually Sanjayji uses 9th for

women in both rasi and saptamsa.>>

Thanks for pointing this out. This is

important. But 9th from UL is used

for both men and women, right?

[Visti] Yes

ninth from UL is used for both men and women.

font-family:"Courier New"">

Re: Gender determination in Saptamsa chart:

If the lord of the house of pregnancy (lord of the

child) is in parivartana,

does it reverse the gender of the child indicated

by the lord of the child?

Or does it take the gender of the parivartana

planet, planets conjoined it, or

its sign?

[Visti] It

reverses.

font-family:"Courier New"">

For example: First house of pregnancy has

Moon in Aries. Its lord Mars is

debilitated in Cancer. What is the gender of

the child and how is this

determined? Is it determined by Mars

(debilitated in Cancer-female), by Cancer

(male), by Moon (female), or by Aries (male)?

Which house is taken as the lagna for the child,

Mars/Cancer or Moon/Aries?

(Not the child's actual birth lagna.)

[Visti] The

lord of the child was Mars who is placed in Cancer hence indicating a girl. But

due to the Parivartana this becomes a boy instead. The Moon will be considered

as the lagna of the child (if i remember correctly).

font-family:"Courier New"">

Another example: Second house of pregnancy is

Aquarius. It lord Saturn is in

Leo in parivartana with Sun in Capricorn. Is

gender taken from Leo (male),

Sun (male), or Capricorn (female)? Which

house is taken as the lagna for the

child, Saturn/Leo or Sun/Capricorn?

[Visti] Saturn

in Leo indicates male, but due to parivartana this becomes female. Lagna should

be taken from the Sun in Cap.

font-family:"Courier New"">

<<[Visti] Your analysis is right, but the

problem is that the mens chart is

much more clear in this regard.>>

I've noticed this. Well, I am glad to know

that it was not a problem in my

technique.

<<For this i compensate with a different

technique which is only indicative.

In the rasi chart the ninth lord is Venus and has

gained three navamsa (being

in Cancer navamsa). So first navamsa (Taurus) has

Jupiter and indicates a boy.

Gemini is next and indicates a girl or no child

due to Moon and Ketu being

there. Cancer indicates nothing as there is no

planets. So two children are

possible and these are a boy first and then a

girl. This method of analysis is

based on bhägya or fortune, and the count should

be verified in the saptamsa.>>

Thanks for giving this alternate technique and for

the further clarifications

you gave in your other post. In this technique,

if Rasi to Navamsa (and

Saptamsa) indicate 3 children, but the first sign

examined in Rasi chart is empty,

is gender determined from its sign or lord?

Do you use this technique in

male charts too, or only for female charts when

the Saptamsa is unclear?

[Visti] It

should be used in both male and female chart. Empty signs do not indicate

children usually. The sex of the planets in the signs indicate the sex of the

children.

font-family:"Courier New"">

Incidently, can you tell me, what is Marana

sthana? I can't seem to find a

definition for this anywhere. I think I am

confusing it with Maraka sthana.

[Visti] ‘Marana

Karaka Sthana’ is the proper term. This refers to sthäna (houses) where

the planets significations (kärakatva) get killed/destroyed (marana). Example:

Sun is the significator for life and light, and is the giver of all the fruits

of the twelve signs. When the sun goes to the twelfth house he’s forced

to beg you to feed him and this is the worst possible placement of the Sun. The

rest are given in the Kala Chakra Dasa chapter of Jataka Parijata, and alot of

discussion on these have been done in the past. For quick reference; twelfth,

eighth, seventh, fourth, third, sixth, first and ninth are the marana karaka sthäna

of the eight planets from sun to rahu (in weekday order). Ketu is not given a

marana karaka sthäna, but some say the second house is the worst placement of

Ketu.

font-family:"Courier New"">

Many thanks!!

Susan

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

~ om tat sat

~

10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the

Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for

animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one

free chart reading today

[Guest guest]

|| Om Krsna Guru ||

Dear Vistiji, Namaskar

I shall be more careful to read your comments thoroughly in the

future.

Regarding Marana Karaka Sthana, I remember Sanjayji saying something

along the following lines in the archives: He said that it was

significant that Ketu was not given a Marana Karaka Sthana, and that this

should lead us to draw some links between the principle of Marana Karaka

Sthana and the asta chara karakas.

Ever since, I have been thinking about that, but have not been able to

come up with a satisfactory explanation. Could you kindly give a

hint on this?

Pranaam,

Samir

"Visti Larsen" <visti

Thu May 26, 2005 9:29 am

RE: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and

Denial of Children

||Hare Rama

Krsna||

Dear

Susan, Namaskar

Make sure you read the other mail i’ve sent to Samir.

Comments below.

Best wishes,

***

Visti Larsen

Email:

visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

Web:

http://srigaruda.com &

http://astrovisti.com

***

 

[

] On Behalf Of

abalonemoon (AT) aol (DOT) com

26 May 2005 05:27

 

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and

Denial of Children

Dear Visti,

Thanks so much for your reply. A few comments below.

<< [Visti] Actually Sanjayji uses 9th for women in both rasi and

saptamsa.>>

Thanks for pointing this out. This is important. But 9th from

UL is used

for both men and women, right?

[Visti] Yes ninth from UL is used for both men and women.

Re: Gender determination in Saptamsa chart:

If the lord of the house of pregnancy (lord of the child) is in

parivartana,

does it reverse the gender of the child indicated by the lord of the

child?

Or does it take the gender of the parivartana planet, planets conjoined

it, or

its sign?

[Visti] It reverses.

For example: First house of pregnancy has Moon in

Aries. Its lord Mars is

debilitated in Cancer. What is the gender of the child and how is

this

determined? Is it determined by Mars (debilitated in

Cancer-female), by Cancer

(male), by Moon (female), or by Aries (male)?

Which house is taken as the lagna for the child, Mars/Cancer or

Moon/Aries?

(Not the child's actual birth lagna.)

[Visti] The lord of the child was Mars who is placed in Cancer hence

indicating a girl. But due to the Parivartana this becomes a boy instead.

The Moon will be considered as the lagna of the child (if i remember

correctly).

Another example: Second house of pregnancy is Aquarius.

It lord Saturn is in

Leo in parivartana with Sun in Capricorn. Is gender taken from Leo

(male),

Sun (male), or Capricorn (female)? Which house is taken as the

lagna for the

child, Saturn/Leo or Sun/Capricorn?

[Visti] Saturn in Leo indicates male, but due to parivartana this becomes

female. Lagna should be taken from the Sun in Cap.

<<[Visti] Your analysis is right, but the problem is

that the mens chart is

much more clear in this regard.>>

I've noticed this. Well, I am glad to know that it was not a

problem in my

technique.

<<For this i compensate with a different technique which is only

indicative.

In the rasi chart the ninth lord is Venus and has gained three navamsa

(being

in Cancer navamsa). So first navamsa (Taurus) has Jupiter and indicates a

boy.

Gemini is next and indicates a girl or no child due to Moon and Ketu

being

there. Cancer indicates nothing as there is no planets. So two children

are

possible and these are a boy first and then a girl. This method of

analysis is

based on bhägya or fortune, and the count should be verified in the

saptamsa.>>

Thanks for giving this alternate technique and for the further

clarifications

you gave in your other post. In this technique, if Rasi to Navamsa

(and

Saptamsa) indicate 3 children, but the first sign examined in Rasi chart

is empty,

is gender determined from its sign or lord? Do you use this

technique in

male charts too, or only for female charts when the Saptamsa is

unclear?

[Visti] It should be used in both male and female chart. Empty signs do

not indicate children usually. The sex of the planets in the signs

indicate the sex of the children.

Incidently, can you tell me, what is Marana sthana? I

can't seem to find a

definition for this anywhere. I think I am confusing it with Maraka

sthana.

[Visti] ‘Marana Karaka Sthana’ is the proper term. This refers to sthäna

(houses) where the planets significations (kärakatva) get

killed/destroyed (marana). Example: Sun is the significator for life and

light, and is the giver of all the fruits of the twelve signs. When the

sun goes to the twelfth house he’s forced to beg you to feed him and this

is the worst possible placement of the Sun. The rest are given in the

Kala Chakra Dasa chapter of Jataka Parijata, and alot of discussion on

these have been done in the past. For quick reference; twelfth, eighth,

seventh, fourth, third, sixth, first and ninth are the marana karaka

sthäna of the eight planets from sun to rahu (in weekday order). Ketu is

not given a marana karaka sthäna, but some say the second house is the

worst placement of Ketu.

Many thanks!!

Susan

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

[Guest guest]

SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM

AUM GURUBYO NAMAH

 

Dear Dhira,

 

Namaste. i have taken your birth details as follows:

 

Date:- May 23rd, 1968 Long:- 3 E 36 03 Lat:- 50 N 45

Time:- 10hrs 49mts and 25 secs

 

Janma thithi:- Krishna dwadasi

Janma nakshatra:- Revathi

Vedic Week day:- Thursday

 

Kataka lagna rises with Gulika in it. Lagna falls in

Nakshatra Aslesha in 3rd pada. Gulika joins the lagna

in the same nakshatra pada.

 

AK is Sani. He is Lord of 7th,8th,A9 & A11. AK Sani

occupies the nakshatra Revathi 4th pada and is placed

in 9th house alongwith lagnesha Moon & Rahu who are

also posited in the same nakshatra(Moon in Revathi 3rd

pada & Rahi in Revathi 2nd pada).

 

Sun is placed in Badhaka kshetra alongwith Mars & Sun

sign dispositor & Badhakesha Venus. Venus is not only

combust but is under the machinations of Mars & Sani.

Venus on account of his oppression and depression is

seen cursing which paves the way for AK Sani to learn

the lessons of significations of 7th house. Sun is the

dispositor of Guru and A5. The navamsa dispositor of

Sun is Guru who is under the machinations of Sani &

Rahu is found cursing. In Suryamsa Sun is being

tormented by Sani & Rahu.

 

Guru the putrakaraka is the dispositor of Lagnesha

Moon and AK Sani & Pitrukaraka Rahu. Guru is closely

associated with Mandi. Revathi is nakshatra veda to

Magha. Rahu is in Revathi while Guru is in Magha. Rahu

makes every attempt to pierce through the karakatwa of

Guru. Moreover we find Indrachapa in Revathi 2nd pada

which also houses Rahu. Ketu the co-owner of AL is

associated with Dhooma. In Saptamsa we find Guru in

maranakaraka sthana and is found cursing.

 

Let us peep into your shastyamsa. We find Karakamsa

and Swamsa as Libra and the trines are all occupied by

malefics indicating the awareness of

Mantra/Tantra/Yantra in the past birth. We find Mars

in 5th house engaged in karaka parivartana with Guru

who is placed in 6th house. Guru is made to come down

to the level of Tamas from the high scales of Satwa

through the enticements/instruments of wealth. Mars &

Ketu and Buda and Rahu have caused bandana to

naisargika and chara AKs Sun & Sani respectively. Buda

who is the 9th lord and lord of A5 is found cursing on

account of oppressions and deceptions of Mars and

Rahu. Buda is also found placed in badhaka kshetra.

With reference to Arudha lagna also we find a karaka

parivartana between Buda and Sani.

 

>From the above we find that Lord of Mantra pada and

Putrakaraka were consciously disturbed in the past

birth. 2nd lord from UL is found debilitated and

arrested. Rejection of spouse and relatives , neglect

of family life and abuse of mantra appear to have a

telling effect in this current birth. You are

currently running the mahadasa of Buda, Antardasa of

Sani the AK and pratyantar dasa of Moon under the

Moola dasa scheme. You are asking a question involving

these three planets and quoting a relevant sloka from

BPHS!!!

 

Look at your Navamsha. Your Ista is in a bandana

caused by Buda and Mars. Tap the 12th from Mars and

Buda. We find Guru placed in 12th to Mars and no

planet is found placed in 12th to Buda. Ketu can be

considered as the lord. Worship Heramba Ganapati.

Perform Ganapati Homa on Thursday. Offer a yellow

cloth/pitambara and food to a brahmachari invoking

Ganesha after the homa. If physically you feel these

are all not possible do these acts mentally in all

sincerity and firm faith and devotion. In the same

evening(Thursday) during the Hora of Moon install MA

Durga on a raised dais. Light a lamp and offer worship

to her with complete devotion. If you have in your

possesion any Moon stone or garland of Pearls offer

that to Mother. You need not buy a fresh one. What is

being used by you is sufficient(Moon is Ista and is

placed in Swamsa).Apart from the usual sweet foods

that you offer for naivedya also offer a salty food(

Moon in kshaara in D-7) to Mata. During the Hora of

Ista you will get directions of next course of action

which will make you feel relieved of all agonies.

 

All the negative factors in the chart point out to

adoption.i have suggested all these remedies, so that

you get yourself involved in the worship MA Durga who

is ever merciful and is ever ready to bless you.

 

i hope this helps.

 

Best wishes.

 

Astrologically & spiritually yours,

p.s.ramanarayanan.

 

 

 

 

 

--- Dhira Krsna BCS <Dhira.Krsna.BCS wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Rama Narayanan,

 

Hare Rama Krsna!

 

Attached is my chart. Do you think the yoga of

Rahu-Sat-Moon in 9th house

in nakshatra of Merc (revathi) with Merc aspecting in

rasi dristi is a

yoga for adoption as well? vide shloka in BPHS chapter

30. 25-28.

 

So far I don't have children.

 

Yours,

Dhira Krsna dasa,

 

web site:

<http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html>

<http://.org/learning>

 

~ om tat sat ~

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta

Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not

become a graveyard for animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free

chart reading today

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

Terms of Service.

 

 

 

______________________

India Matrimony: Find your life partner online

Go to: http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony

[Guest guest]

Dear Visti,

 

Thanks so much for your reply. Comments below.

 

<<[Visti] Saturn in Leo indicates male, but due to parivartana this becomes

female. Lagna should be taken from the Sun in Cap.>>

 

So the lord of the child still determines the gender, which is reversed due

to parivartana, but the planet in parivartana with the lord of the child is

taken as the lagna for the child.

 

<<[Visti] ‘Marana Karaka Sthana’ is the proper term. This refers to sthäna

(houses) where the planets significations (kärakatva) get killed/destroyed

(marana).

For quick reference; twelfth, eighth, seventh, fourth, third, sixth, first

and ninth are the marana karaka sthäna of the eight planets from sun to rahu

(in

weekday order). Ketu is not given a marana karaka sthäna, but some say the

second house is the worst placement of Ketu.>>

 

Thanks for this explanation and "quick reference". Are these house

placements seen only from the lagna or also from the AL? Are they seen from any

other

houses? Are the signfications of the planets damaged if they lord these

houses, or only if they occupy them?

 

 

<<The rest are given in the Kala Chakra Dasa chapter of Jataka Parijata, and

alot of discussion on these have been done in the past. >>

 

Any recommendations on which is the best English translation of Jataka

Parijata? Are there posts on this subject in the archives?

 

Thanks so much for all your help.

 

Have a good weekend!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Susan

[Guest guest]

color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna||

Dear Susan,

Namaskar

Comments

below.

Best

wishes,

***

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Web: http://srigaruda.com

color:navy"> & http://astrovisti.com

***

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of abalonemoon (AT) aol (DOT) com

27 May 2005 21:18

 

Re: [Om Krishna

Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

12.0pt">

10.0pt">Dear Visti,

Thanks so much for your reply. Comments

below.

<<[Visti] Saturn in Leo indicates male, but

due to parivartana this becomes

female. Lagna should be taken from the Sun in

Cap.>>

So the lord of the child still determines the

gender, which is reversed due

to parivartana, but the planet in parivartana with

the lord of the child is

taken as the lagna for the child.

[Visti] Right.

font-family:"Courier New"">

<<[Visti] ‘Marana Karaka Sthana’

is the proper term. This refers to sthäna

(houses) where the planets significations

(kärakatva) get killed/destroyed

(marana).

For quick reference; twelfth, eighth, seventh,

fourth, third, sixth, first

and ninth are the marana karaka sthäna of the

eight planets from sun to rahu (in

weekday order). Ketu is not given a marana karaka

sthäna, but some say the

second house is the worst placement of

Ketu.>>

Thanks for this explanation and "quick

reference". Are these house

placements seen only from the lagna or also from

the AL?

Are they seen from any other

houses? Are the signfications of the planets

damaged if they lord these

houses, or only if they occupy them?

[Visti] They

are seen from any point in the chart. Their lordship and kärakatva is damaged.

font-family:"Courier New"">

<<The rest are given in the Kala Chakra Dasa

chapter of Jataka Parijata, and

alot of discussion on these have been done in the

past. >>

Any recommendations on which is the best English

translation of Jataka

Parijata? Are there posts on this subject in

the archives?

[Visti] I

only think there is one English translation by V. Subramanya Shastri, published

by Ranjan Publications. Its a very exhaustive classic, and is one of the

favorites of Sanjay Rath... Its good to read along with Sarvartha Chintamani.

font-family:"Courier New"">

Thanks so much for all your help.

Have a good weekend!

Best Wishes,

Susan

~ om tat sat

~

10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the

Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for

animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one

free chart reading today

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krsna

 

Dear Visti,

 

I had one afterthought regarding parivartana and reversal of direction of

count in the Saptamsa chart.

 

If Saturn is in Leo and Sun is in Capricorn, the count is reversed, due to

parivartana. If Saturn is in Leo, but Sun is in Aquarius, is the direction of

the count still reversed?

 

Is the direction of the count reversed in parivartana regardless of whether

the other planet is in an odd or even sign? In other words, does parivartana

reverse the direction of the count, OR does it take on the direction of the

sign of the other planet?

 

Another example would be Venus in Gemini (odd) in parivartana with Mercury in

Libra (odd), OR Venus in Virgo (even) in parivartana with Mercury in Taurus

(even).

 

All planets lord one odd and one even sign, except Sun, Moon, and the nodes,

but it seems that the count is ALWAYS reversed in parivartana, just as

parivartana ALWAYS reverses gender of the child, regardless of whether the other

planet in the parivartana is in an odd or an even sign. Am I right about this?

 

<<[Visti] They are seen from any point in the chart. Their lordship and

kärakatva is damaged.>>

 

Thanks for the explanation of Marana karaka sthana. This is extremely

helpful.

 

<<[Visti] I only think there is one English translation by V. Subramanya

Shastri, published by Ranjan Publications. Its a very exhaustive classic, and is

one of the favorites of Sanjay Rath... Its good to read along with Sarvartha

Chintamani.>>

 

Thanks for the recommendations. I will look for these two texts.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Susan

[Guest guest]

|| Om Krsna Guru ||

 

Dear Susun, Namaskar

 

I know your queries were not addressed to me, but I feel I can be of

some assistance:

 

> Is the direction of the count reversed in parivartana regardless of

whether

> the other planet is in an odd or even sign? In other words, does

parivartana

> reverse the direction of the count, OR does it take on the

direction of the

> sign of the other planet?

 

[samir] Yes, count is reversed when there is parivartana, and thats

that. There are several examples in the archives that confirm this.

It's also explained in Varga Chakra.

 

For the sake of completeness: Ketu in Saptamsa lagna will reverse

the count. Saturn in Saptamsa lagna will force a forward (zodiacal)

count, if I remember correctly. I'll have to confirm about Saturn

however.

 

I hope that helps,

 

Best wishes,

 

Samir

[Guest guest]

|| Om Krsna Guru ||

 

Sorry Susan, I misspelt your name in my previous post. Twas a typo

 

Best wishes,

 

Samir

 

 

 

, "ray_of_solaris"

<solaris.smoke@g...> wrote:

> || Om Krsna Guru ||

>

> Dear Susun, Namaskar

>

> I know your queries were not addressed to me, but I feel I can be

of

> some assistance:

>

> > Is the direction of the count reversed in parivartana regardless

of

> whether

> > the other planet is in an odd or even sign? In other words,

does

> parivartana

> > reverse the direction of the count, OR does it take on the

> direction of the

> > sign of the other planet?

>

> [samir] Yes, count is reversed when there is parivartana, and thats

> that. There are several examples in the archives that confirm

this.

> It's also explained in Varga Chakra.

>

> For the sake of completeness: Ketu in Saptamsa lagna will reverse

> the count. Saturn in Saptamsa lagna will force a forward

(zodiacal)

> count, if I remember correctly. I'll have to confirm about Saturn

> however.

>

> I hope that helps,

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Samir

[Guest guest]

color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna||

Dear Susan,

Namaskar

I agree

with Samir’s comments.

Best

wishes,

***

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Web: http://srigaruda.com

color:navy"> & http://astrovisti.com

***

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of abalonemoon (AT) aol (DOT) com

30 May 2005 17:56

 

Re: [Om Krishna

Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

12.0pt">

10.0pt">Hare Rama Krsna

Dear Visti,

I had one afterthought regarding parivartana and

reversal of direction of

count in the Saptamsa chart.

If Saturn is in Leo and Sun is in Capricorn, the

count is reversed, due to

parivartana. If Saturn is in Leo, but Sun is

in Aquarius, is the direction of

the count still reversed?

Is the direction of the count reversed in

parivartana regardless of whether

the other planet is in an odd or even

sign? In other words, does parivartana

reverse the direction of the count, OR does it

take on the direction of the

sign of the other planet?

Another example would be Venus in Gemini (odd) in

parivartana with Mercury in

Libra (odd), OR Venus in Virgo (even) in

parivartana with Mercury in Taurus

(even).

All planets lord one odd and one even sign, except

Sun, Moon, and the nodes,

but it seems that the count is ALWAYS reversed in

parivartana, just as

parivartana ALWAYS reverses gender of the child, regardless

of whether the other

planet in the parivartana is in an odd or an even

sign. Am I right about this?

<<[Visti] They are seen from any point in

the chart. Their lordship and

kärakatva is damaged.>>

Thanks for the explanation of Marana karaka sthana.

This is extremely

helpful.

<<[Visti] I only think there is one English

translation by V. Subramanya

Shastri, published by Ranjan Publications. Its a

very exhaustive classic, and is

one of the favorites of Sanjay Rath... Its good to

read along with Sarvartha

Chintamani.>>

Thanks for the recommendations. I will look

for these two texts.

Thanks for all your help.

Best Wishes,

Susan

~ om tat sat

~

10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the

Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare

Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the

Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for

animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one

free chart reading today

[Guest guest]

Dear Samir,

 

Thank you so much for chiming in with your response.

 

<<[samir] Yes, count is reversed when there is parivartana, and thats that.

There are several examples in the archives that confirm this. It's also

explained in Varga Chakra.>>

 

Thank you for confirming this. I will read in Varga Chakra.

 

<<For the sake of completeness: Ketu in Saptamsa lagna will reverse the

count. Saturn in Saptamsa lagna will force a forward (zodiacal) count, if I

remember correctly. I'll have to confirm about Saturn however. >>

 

Thanks so much for pointing this out. I wondered about this! In Varga

Chakra, Visti mentions this about Saturn. In his article on Saptamsa, he

writes,

"If Saturn is in the lagna, the counting is always forward and regular." I

assume that this means that if Ketu is in the lagna, the count is always

reverse,

regardless of whether the lagna is odd or even. So if Ketu is in an even

lagna, the count is still in the reversed direction, i.e. it starts with the 9th

house. Or does Ketu change the direction from even/reverse to zodiacal (i.e.

starting in the 5th house)?

 

I looked at a chart that has Leo lagna, with Saturn in the lagna, and Saturn

in parivartana with lagna lord Sun. I am guessing that Saturn overrides the

reversal of the parivartana and forces the count forward/zodiacal. Am I right?

 

Thanks so much for your help!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Susan

 

 

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

11

4

1956

5.550000

5.000000

74.166833

40.364833

20.000000

5.000000

4.000000

0

285

Rahway

New^Jersey,^USA

1

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/05 6:19:08 AM Mountain Daylight Time,

visti writes:

 

<< I agree with Samir’s comments. >>

___-

 

Dear Visti,

 

Thanks for the confirmation. And thank you so much for all your time and

patience in helping me work through my questions. You help has been invaluable!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Susan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/05 12:32:21 AM Mountain Daylight Time,

solaris.smoke writes:

 

<< Sorry Susan, I misspelt your name in my previous post. Twas a typo >>

__________

Dear Samir,

 

No problem. :-) Thanks so much for your reply and your help.

 

Susan

[Guest guest]

Dear Samir and ALL,

 

Oops! I accidently attached a chart (.jhd file) to my last post. Well,

since I accidently posted this chart, here is some info about it. This chart

has

Ketu in Sag in the Saptamsa lagna. The native had several abortions. She has

three children, a daughter (eldest) and two sons. Order of pregnancies was:

First Pregnancy: Abortion

Second Pregnancy: Daughter (eldest)

Third Pregnancy: Abortion

Fourth Pregnancy: Son

Fifth Pregnancy: Abortion

Sixth Pregnancy: Son (Youngest. From her second marriage.)

Seventh Pregnancy: Abortion. (After which, she had a tubal ligation.)

 

I have attached the chart again here as JHora file.

 

Best Regards,

 

Susan

 

 

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

11

4

1956

5.550000

5.000000

74.166833

40.364833

20.000000

5.000000

4.000000

0

285

Rahway

New^Jersey,^USA

1

[Guest guest]

Dear Visti,

 

Hare Rama Krsna!

 

An interesting chart for this method of Navamsas is the chart of

Bhaktivinod Thakur (attached). How would you interpret this chart with the

Navamsa method? He had 13 children, 1 miscarriage somewhere in between.

 

Yours,

Dhira Krsna dasa,

 

web site: <http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html>

<http://.org/learning>

Attachment: (APPLICATION/octet-stream) Bhaktivinod_Thakur.jhd [not stored]

[Guest guest]

-Dear Dhira,

The Attachment was blocked. Could you please post the data of Thakur.

Best wishes

Chitra

 

..,-- In , "Dhira Krsna BCS"

<Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...> wrote:

> Dear Visti,

>

> Hare Rama Krsna!

>

> An interesting chart for this method of Navamsas is the chart of

> Bhaktivinod Thakur (attached). How would you interpret this chart

with the

> Navamsa method? He had 13 children, 1 miscarriage somewhere in

between.

>

> Yours,

> Dhira Krsna dasa,

>

> web site: <http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html>

> <http://.org/learning>

[Guest guest]

|| Om Krsna Guru ||

Dear Susan, Namaskar

Glad I could help!

1. When Ketu is in Saptamsa Lagna, counting is not always reverse -

but rather reversed with respect to what it would be otherwise. So

for an even sign (i.e., we would normally count backwards) with Ketu in

it, counting would be zodiacal; for an odd sign with Ketu in it, counting

would be anti-zodiacal.

2. Yes, my understanding is that for Saturn in Lagna, the count is

zodiacal regardless of all else (including parivartana). I have

often wondered what to do when both Saturn and Ketu join in the Lagna - I

guess the count would still be forward.

I'm sure I read something giving a reason for this peculiarity with

Saturn (it happens in many Rasi dasas as well), but I can't remember it

or find it. Perhaps someone on the list will kindly remind

us.

The chart you attached is interesting. Previously I was looking at

each individual pregnancy to determine abortion, but in this case that

doesn't work. Important factors are, I think, the graha yuddha

between the Moon and Saturn, and the affliction of the Moon in both Rasi

and Saptamsa (chandrashtama in Saptamsa). This pretty much

kills the maternal instinct I guess. The AK Mars is in th 5th house

in Rasi also, so that's where a lot of life's lessons will be (or have

been) dealt. It is, presumably, the strength of Jupiter in the

Saptamsa that allowed so many pregnancies at all. Two significant

curses also. I am right in guessing that a large number, if not all

of these abortions took place between 1971 and 1987?

Warm regards,

Samir

______________________

Message: 20

Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:03:10 EDT

abalonemoon (AT) aol (DOT) com

Re: Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

Dear Samir,

Thank you so much for chiming in with your response.

 

<<[samir] Yes, count is reversed when there is parivartana, and

thats that.

There are several examples in the archives that confirm this. It's

also

explained in Varga Chakra.>>

Thank you for confirming this. I will read in Varga Chakra.

 

<<For the sake of completeness: Ketu in Saptamsa lagna will

reverse the

count. Saturn in Saptamsa lagna will force a forward (zodiacal)

count, if I

remember correctly. I'll have to confirm about Saturn however.

>>

Thanks so much for pointing this out. I wondered about this!

In Varga

Chakra, Visti mentions this about Saturn. In his article on

Saptamsa, he writes,

"If Saturn is in the lagna, the counting is always forward and

regular." I

assume that this means that if Ketu is in the lagna, the count is always

reverse,

regardless of whether the lagna is odd or even. So if Ketu is in an

even

lagna, the count is still in the reversed direction, i.e. it starts with

the 9th

house. Or does Ketu change the direction from even/reverse to

zodiacal (i.e.

starting in the 5th house)?

I looked at a chart that has Leo lagna, with Saturn in the lagna, and

Saturn

in parivartana with lagna lord Sun. I am guessing that Saturn

overrides the

reversal of the parivartana and forces the count forward/zodiacal.

Am I right?

Thanks so much for your help!

Best Wishes,

Susan

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/1/05 10:41:38 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

solaris.smoke writes:

 

<< 1. When Ketu is in Saptamsa Lagna, counting is not always reverse - but

rather reversed with respect to what it would be otherwise. So for an even

sign (i.e., we would normally count backwards) with Ketu in it, counting would

be

zodiacal; for an odd sign with Ketu in it, counting would be anti-zodiacal.

 

2. Yes, my understanding is that for Saturn in Lagna, the count is zodiacal

regardless of all else (including parivartana).>>

______________

 

Dear Samir,

 

Thanks so much for this clarification on Ketu and Saturn in Saptamsa lagna.

 

<>

 

Good question! It sounds reasonable that Saturn would override Ketu, and

that the count would be forward. I suppose it is possible that the direction of

the count could be determined by whichever planet is stronger. But this would

make things very complicated. My guess is that Saturn overrides the reversal

of Ketu, just as it overrides parivartana, and that the count is always

forward.

 

<<The chart you attached is interesting. Previously I was looking at each

individual pregnancy to determine abortion, but in this case that doesn't

work.>>

 

Yes, I noticed this too. Ketu in the lagna seems to have an overall effect

on the entire chart, such that it did not prevent pregnancy or limit the number

of pregnancies, but caused several abortions.

 

<<Important factors are, I think, the graha yuddha between the Moon and

Saturn, and the affliction of the Moon in both Rasi and Saptamsa (chandrashtama

in

Saptamsa). This pretty much kills the maternal instinct I guess.>>

 

I see the Saturn-Moon conjoined Rahu in Rasi and conjoined debilitated 5th

lord Mars in Saptamsa. What are you referring to by "graha yuddha" and

"chandrashtama"? I know "graha" is planet and "chandra" is Moon, but I am not

familiar with these terms. It is true that, although the native loves her

children,

her maternal instinct is not strong and she is not what you would call a

"motherly" sort of mother. Her mothering style shows a strong influence of

Mars.

 

<<The AK Mars is in the 5th house in Rasi also, so that's where a lot of

life's lessons will be (or have been) dealt.>>

 

This is very true. Her children are the area of life in which she is

learning patience and tolerance, both lessons of AK Mars. The sign of the 2nd

house

of the Navamsa chart falls in the 5th house in the Rasi chart, so the lessons

of the AK are also the primary focus of her life overall.

 

<<It is, presumably, the strength of Jupiter in the Saptamsa that allowed so

many pregnancies at all.>>

 

Jupiter's strength as lagna lord in Pisces seems to be the strongest factor.

I'm not sure if argala of Venus in Taurus helps or hinders, since it is in

the 6th house. 5th lord Mars is debilitated conjoined Moon in watery Cancer,

but it is also conjoined Saturn. Gender determination for the 2nd and 3rd

children, both sons, is still not clear to me in the Saptamsa, but perhaps this

is

because it is a female chart.

 

The other factor that occurred to me is that Ketu causes "mistakes", which

could also include "accidental and unexpected events". Its overall impact,

given its position in strength (Sag) in the lagna, could be to give unwanted

pregnancies, i.e. "mistakes" in pregnancy, which resulted in abortion.

 

<<Two significant curses also.>>

 

What are the two curses that you are seeing?

 

<>

 

Dates of abortions and children are approximately as follows:

First abortion: 1975

Second Child (daughter) born: 1983

Second abortion: between 1984 and 1986 (between the 1st and 2nd child)

Second Child (son) born: 1987

Third abortion: 1991 or 1992 (About 1-2 years before birth of the third

child.)

Third Child (son) born: 1993

Fourth abortion: Between 1999 and 2000 (or 2001).

 

Yes, this is an interesting chart. And a complicated one. Hope these dates

help. Let me know what you see.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Susan

 

 

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

[Guest guest]

Dear Ray,

 

Hare Rama Krsna!

 

>For the sake of completeness: Ketu in Saptamsa lagna will reverse

>the count. Saturn in Saptamsa lagna will force a forward (zodiacal)

>count, if I remember correctly. I'll have to confirm about Saturn

>however.

 

These are principles for the calculation of Narayan dasha! Are you sure

they will be applicable to the counting in Saptamsa? I doubt it.

 

Yours,

Dhira Krsna dasa,

 

web site: <http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html>

<http://.org/learning>

[Guest guest]

|| Om Krsna Guru ||

Dear Dhiraji, Namaskar

It was I who wrote those words. This is based on what I have read in COVA

and in Varga Chakra. Vistiji agreed with me, so I am pretty sure

they are applicable to the Saptamsa as well.

Pranaam,

Samir

"Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS

Thu Jun 2, 2005 9:03 pm

[Om Krishna Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial

of Children

Dear Ray,

Hare Rama Krsna!

>For the sake of completeness: Ketu in Saptamsa lagna will

reverse

>the count. Saturn in Saptamsa lagna will force a forward

(zodiacal)

>count, if I remember correctly. I'll have to confirm about

Saturn

>however.

These are principles for the calculation of Narayan dasha! Are you

sure

they will be applicable to the counting in Saptamsa? I doubt it.

Yours,

Dhira Krsna dasa,

[Guest guest]

|| Om Krsna Guru ||

Dear Susan, Namaskar

Graha yuddha - 'planetary war' occurs when two planets are within one

degree of each other. You can see that this happens with the Moon

and Saturn. The planet with the higher degree wins the yuddha and

is said to gain all the strength of the losing planet. In this

case, the Moon has won, so the houses ruled by Saturn - the 4th (mother,

home, happiness) and 5th (children) will suffer. This, I think, is

evident in her life.

This also happens to cause a chara karaka parivartana between the

Putra-karaka Moon and Gnati-karaka Saturn, where Saturn will take over

the role of Putrakaraka. This would perhaps have resulted in the

loss of family support between the ages of 23 and 36 - being the natural

ages of the Moon and Saturn respectively, along with a major shift in the

role of her children in her life. However I am not very experienced

with this, so I cannot say much more.

Chandrashtama dosha is when the Moon in the 8th house (i.e., in marana

karaka sthana). But I was wrong - because the Moon is in the 9th in

Navamsa (assuming the birth time is reasonably correct).

Sorry!

Yes, I have also found it difficult to ascertain the sex of children from

female charts. I have yet to master more than one technique of

doing so, to make it more accurate. You'll see in Varga Chakra that

the nodes cause a break in the 'manduka gati' of counting children in

Saptamsa, and can actually reverse it. But at the same time it

seems that if Jupiter is strong (as it is in this case), then this

anomaly is over-ridden. I think it is a matter of experience and

intuition, knowing when to do what.

Curses:

1. Curse of uncle. Mercury in Lagna with a debilitated Sun

and aspected by Mars and Ketu shows this.

2. Curse of mother. The Moon is joined Saturn and Rahu.

I don't know if the graha yuddha changes anything here, but I'm guessing

it doesn't, in terms of the curse.

Now, of these, the Moon is the greater benefic, so the results of this

curse will dominate. Rahu and Saturn indicate that this person

caused great shock and sorrow to their mother in a previous life.

This all happens in the 2nd house in Scorpio, indicating that the person

in some way schemed and plotted against the mother in the previous

life. That it is the 2nd house shows the results will manifest in

the domain of family and wealth in this life. I know I could be

more precise, but I need to develop my own skill and intuition to do

so!

Continuing nonetheless, we see that Rahu lords the 5th while Saturn lords

the 4th and 5th also. So the areas affected by shock and sorrow in

this life will be mother and home (4th) and even more so, children

(5th). I suppose we could also include luxuries and vehicles (4th)

and intelligence and fame (5th), but this doesn't seem in as much line

with the rest of the chart. Moon is Putrakaraka showing that

children will have a significant role to play in the bearing out of this

curse. The Moon lords the 10th house, so career and the like will

no doubt suffer because of the curse. Remember also the moon's

debilitation.

The dates you have given are so spread out that I cannot immediately see

any link with particular dasas. However we have already established

that the issue of children is the major source of life lessons, so I

suppose they would have to be fairly spread out. I'll have a longer

look later anyway.

A thought that does strike me, however, is of marriage. The UL is

in the 2nd house with the curse. This would probably indicate a

very sorrowful, likely depressed individual as the (first) spouse.

The 2nd from UL is Sagittarius aspected by its lord Jupiter and Venus -

so it would seem that marriage is unlikely to break. But I'll wait

to learn the facts from you first!

My attempts at analysis above are prone to mistakes, which I will be

grateful to have corrected by the learned members.

Best wishes,

Samir

abalonemoon

Fri Jun 3, 2005 12:42 am

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Questions about Adoption and

Denial of Children

In a message dated 6/1/05 10:41:38 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

solaris.smoke writes:

<< 1. When Ketu is in Saptamsa Lagna, counting is not always

reverse - but

rather reversed with respect to what it would be otherwise. So for an

even

sign (i.e., we would normally count backwards) with Ketu in it, counting

would

be

zodiacal; for an odd sign with Ketu in it, counting would be

anti-zodiacal.

2. Yes, my understanding is that for Saturn in Lagna, the count is

zodiacal

regardless of all else (including parivartana).>>

______________

Dear Samir,

Thanks so much for this clarification on Ketu and Saturn in Saptamsa

lagna.

<>

Good question! It sounds reasonable that Saturn would override Ketu,

and

that the count would be forward. I suppose it is possible that the

direction of

the count could be determined by whichever planet is stronger. But this

would

make things very complicated. My guess is that Saturn overrides the

reversal

of Ketu, just as it overrides parivartana, and that the count is

always

forward.

<<The chart you attached is interesting. Previously I was looking

at each

individual pregnancy to determine abortion, but in this case that

doesn't

work.>>

Yes, I noticed this too. Ketu in the lagna seems to have an overall

effect

on the entire chart, such that it did not prevent pregnancy or limit the

number

of pregnancies, but caused several abortions.

<<Important factors are, I think, the graha yuddha between the Moon

and

Saturn, and the affliction of the Moon in both Rasi and Saptamsa

(chandrashtama

in

Saptamsa). This pretty much kills the maternal instinct I

guess.>>

I see the Saturn-Moon conjoined Rahu in Rasi and conjoined debilitated

5th

lord Mars in Saptamsa. What are you referring to by "graha

yuddha" and

"chandrashtama"? I know "graha" is planet and

"chandra" is Moon, but I am not

familiar with these terms. It is true that, although the native loves

her

children,

her maternal instinct is not strong and she is not what you would call

a

"motherly" sort of mother. Her mothering style shows a strong

influence of

Mars.

<<The AK Mars is in the 5th house in Rasi also, so that's where a

lot of

life's lessons will be (or have been) dealt.>>

This is very true. Her children are the area of life in which she is

learning patience and tolerance, both lessons of AK Mars. The sign of the

2nd

house

of the Navamsa chart falls in the 5th house in the Rasi chart, so the

lessons

of the AK are also the primary focus of her life overall.

<<It is, presumably, the strength of Jupiter in the Saptamsa that

allowed so

many pregnancies at all.>>

Jupiter's strength as lagna lord in Pisces seems to be the strongest

factor.

I'm not sure if argala of Venus in Taurus helps or hinders, since it is

in

the 6th house. 5th lord Mars is debilitated conjoined Moon in watery

Cancer,

but it is also conjoined Saturn. Gender determination for the 2nd and

3rd

children, both sons, is still not clear to me in the Saptamsa, but

perhaps this

is

because it is a female chart.

The other factor that occurred to me is that Ketu causes

"mistakes", which

could also include "accidental and unexpected events". Its

overall impact,

given its position in strength (Sag) in the lagna, could be to give

unwanted

pregnancies, i.e. "mistakes" in pregnancy, which resulted in

abortion.

<<Two significant curses also.>>

What are the two curses that you are seeing?

<>

Dates of abortions and children are approximately as follows:

First abortion: 1975

Second Child (daughter) born: 1983

Second abortion: between 1984 and 1986 (between the 1st and 2nd

child)

Second Child (son) born: 1987

Third abortion: 1991 or 1992 (About 1-2 years before birth of the

third

child.)

Third Child (son) born: 1993

Fourth abortion: Between 1999 and 2000 (or 2001).

Yes, this is an interesting chart. And a complicated one. Hope these

dates

help. Let me know what you see.

Best Wishes,

Susan

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

[Guest guest]

Dear Chitra and jyotishi masters,

 

Here are the data of Thakur Bhaktivinod:

Sept 2, 1838 - 7:05 am - Birnagar local time zone 5:54, 88E33, 23N14.

Lagna should be about 6 degrees Virgo.

 

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa

 

> -Dear Dhira,

> The Attachment was blocked. Could you please post the data of Thakur.

> Best wishes

> Chitra

>

> .,-- In , "Dhira Krsna BCS"

> <Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...> wrote:

> > Dear Visti,

> >

> > Hare Rama Krsna!

> >

> > An interesting chart for this method of Navamsas is the chart of

> > Bhaktivinod Thakur (attached). How would you interpret this chart

> with the

> > Navamsa method? He had 13 children, 1 miscarriage somewhere in

> between.

> >

> > Yours,

> > Dhira Krsna dasa,

> >

> > web site: <http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html>

> > <http://.org/learning>

[Guest guest]

Dear Samir,

 

Thanks for the explanations of graha yuddha and chandrasthama dosha. I am

familiar with the concepts, but had forgotten the terms, so thanks for this

clarification.

 

Re: Chara karaka parivartana between PK Moon and GK Saturn. Do you mean

chara karaka replacement of Moon by Saturn? Her first child was born at age 26,

just after Moon matured. When Saturn matured, age 35-36, she lost family

support and was forced to cut off contact with her mother over the next several

years.

 

<<Yes, I have also found it difficult to ascertain the sex of children from

female charts. I have yet to master more than one technique of doing so, to

make it more accurate. You'll see in Varga Chakra that the nodes cause a break

in the 'manduka gati' of counting children in Saptamsa, and can actually

reverse it. But at the same time it seems that if Jupiter is strong (as it is

in

this case), then this anomaly is overidden. I think it is a matter of

experience and intuition, knowing when to do what.>>

 

I agree! I have found the nodes to be particularly accurate in predicting

the last child. I did not see the example in Varga Chakra of the nodes

reversing the count in Saptamsa. Do you remember where you found this

reference?

 

Regarding the curses, are these curses from mother and uncle from this

lifetime, or from past incarnation? I know she has several aunts, but I am not

sure

about uncles. She has often said that she feels there is a curse on the

entire family. Do you see indications of a family curse in the chart? Or are

the

curses specific to her?

 

The primary problems in this woman's life have come from her mother and her

ex-husbands. The mother is extremely manipulative and emotionally abusive, and

enlists other family members--older sister, younger brother, even the 2nd

husband--to conspire in her machinations against the native. She also cheated

the native out of the father's inheritance (2nd/8th house).

 

The primary problem with children has involved child support issues with the

ex-husbands, rather than with the children themselves. This has resulted in

numerous court battles.

 

The first husband was not depressed, but he was alcoholic. He was also very

rigid, manipulative, and coercive. (Moon-Saturn-Rahu in UL.) The marriage

lasted about 8-9 years and ended in divorce in 1990, at the onset of Venus

mahadasa (Venus-Venus).

 

The second marriage, 8th from UL, is ruled by Mercury and has Ketu 12th from

it. Mercury and Ketu are also in the house of the 2nd marriage in the Navamsa

chart. This husband was somewhat mentally and emotionally unstable and was

extremely vindictive. He teamed up with the native's mother (Moon-Saturn-Rahu

have argala on Mercury) against her. The marriage lasted about 4 years and

ended in divorce during Venus-Rahu dasa. Needless to say, it was an extremely

difficult divorce!

 

One last comment. As the native has Mars in trines (5th house) in Navamsa,

she is a fighter and tends to be quick to anger and to take an aggressive or

adversarial stance in all her relationships and worldly affairs. Moon-Saturn in

9th house also gives a tendency towards depression and a negative attitude

towards life. Saturn-Rahu conjunction on the Moon causes her to become tempted

to resort to vengence and unscrupulous means (Rahu) to "win at all costs", as

her strong Martian nature cannot stand to lose. But Mars is also AK, so there

are significant life lessons regarding anger/aggression/adversarial behavior

vs. ahimsa and knowing when not to fight. In the end, the person who suffers

the greatest injury is herself. Meditation practices that are cooling and

calming and promote evenness of mind have been helpful for her.

 

Hope this additional info is helpful. Thanks so much for taking the time to

write this detailed reply and for looking at this chart with me.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Susan

 

 

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA

[Guest guest]

|| Om Krsna Guru ||

Dear Susan, Namaskar

Yes, I meant chara karaka replacement. I'm not sure if parivartana

is the right word there. It's good that you mention that the

replacement actually occurred when Saturn matured - as I haven't been

able to figure out which one we should use, the planet or it's

replacement!

Varga Chakra page 227, half way down the page, Vistiji shows the change

in gati caused by the nodes.

Curses are from a past life. I don't know if it is immediate past

life however. As regards a 'family curse' I think we need to look

for this in the D-45 and D-45 for maternal and paternal 'hereditary'

karma. That said, I have had little experience in doing so.

The curses that I mentioned are specific to her since they are in the

Rasi chart, however the inherited karma will no doubt have an

influence.

Thanks for the details you provided - they are helping my

understanding. I failed to give importance to the fact that the

curse of mother takes place in the UL - explaining the role of spouses in

bearing it out.

As far as I know, Mars in trines to Navamsa lagna does not cause a short

temper. It merely gives good logical and technical ability.

For anger, we need to look at Rasi lagna and its trines, Paka lagna and

the Moon. In this case, Lagna is occupied by the Sun and aspected

by Mars - both fiery planets. Meanwhile lagnesh is in the 12th,

which also causes anger according to Parasara. Note also that Mars

is the dispositor of the afflicted Moon.

Similarly, Moon and Saturn in the 9th in Navamsa are not going to cause

depression. The cause is seen in the affliction of the Moon in the

Rasi chart by both Rahu and Saturn. This is a strong indicator for

depression. However because the kevala is Mars, this depression can

and often is converted into anger.

Yes, the AK Mars is not going to relent until she gives up the

fight. I think Jupiter in Navamsa lagna is a good

blessing.

Best wishes,

Samir

______________________

Message: 9

Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:18:38 EDT

abalonemoon (AT) aol (DOT) com

Re: Re: Questions about Adoption and Denial of Children

Dear Samir,

Thanks for the explanations of graha yuddha and chandrasthama

dosha. I am

familiar with the concepts, but had forgotten the terms, so thanks for

this

clarification.

Re: Chara karaka parivartana between PK Moon and GK Saturn. Do you

mean

chara karaka replacement of Moon by Saturn? Her first child was

born at age 26,

just after Moon matured. When Saturn matured, age 35-36, she lost

family

support and was forced to cut off contact with her mother over the next

several

years.

 

<<Yes, I have also found it difficult to ascertain the sex of

children from

female charts. I have yet to master more than one technique of

doing so, to

make it more accurate. You'll see in Varga Chakra that the nodes

cause a break

in the 'manduka gati' of counting children in Saptamsa, and can actually

reverse it. But at the same time it seems that if Jupiter is strong

(as it is in

this case), then this anomaly is overidden. I think it is a matter

of

experience and intuition, knowing when to do what.>>

I agree! I have found the nodes to be particularly accurate in

predicting

the last child. I did not see the example in Varga Chakra of the

nodes

reversing the count in Saptamsa. Do you remember where you found

this reference?

 

Regarding the curses, are these curses from mother and uncle from this

lifetime, or from past incarnation? I know she has several aunts,

but I am not sure

about uncles. She has often said that she feels there is a curse on

the

entire family. Do you see indications of a family curse in the

chart? Or are the

curses specific to her?

The primary problems in this woman's life have come from her mother and

her

ex-husbands. The mother is extremely manipulative and emotionally

abusive, and

enlists other family members--older sister, younger brother, even the 2nd

husband--to conspire in her machinations against the native. She

also cheated

the native out of the father's inheritance (2nd/8th house).

The primary problem with children has involved child support issues with

the

ex-husbands, rather than with the children themselves. This has

resulted in

numerous court battles.

The first husband was not depressed, but he was alcoholic. He was

also very

rigid, manipulative, and coercive. (Moon-Saturn-Rahu in UL.)

The marriage

lasted about 8-9 years and ended in divorce in 1990, at the onset of

Venus

mahadasa (Venus-Venus).

The second marriage, 8th from UL, is ruled by Mercury and has Ketu 12th

from

it. Mercury and Ketu are also in the house of the 2nd marriage in

the Navamsa

chart. This husband was somewhat mentally and emotionally unstable

and was

extremely vindictive. He teamed up with the native's mother

(Moon-Saturn-Rahu

have argala on Mercury) against her. The marriage lasted about 4

years and

ended in divorce during Venus-Rahu dasa. Needless to say, it was an

extremely

difficult divorce!

One last comment. As the native has Mars in trines (5th house) in

Navamsa,

she is a fighter and tends to be quick to anger and to take an aggressive

or

adversarial stance in all her relationships and worldly affairs.

Moon-Saturn in

9th house also gives a tendency towards depression and a negative

attitude

towards life. Saturn-Rahu conjunction on the Moon causes her to

become tempted

to resort to vengence and unscrupulous means (Rahu) to "win at all

costs", as

her strong Martian nature cannot stand to lose. But Mars is also

AK, so there

are significant life lessons regarding anger/aggression/adversarial

behavior

vs. ahimsa and knowing when not to fight. In the end, the person

who suffers

the greatest injury is herself. Meditation practices that are

cooling and

calming and promote evenness of mind have been helpful for her.

Hope this additional info is helpful. Thanks so much for taking the

time to

write this detailed reply and for looking at this chart with me.

Best Wishes,

Susan

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA