Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Hello Dear Uttara and List, My responses did not come through earlier, strangely my computer did not receive emails either from our list for a couple days... and then I was away most of the weekend. Uttara, thank you for sharing so much of your thoughts and the specifics of your career, et'al, along with your own story here. You have said so much and all very heartfelt, so I just want to thank you for this. I agree that her chart gives a visceral response and the chart of the day of her father's death combined with it is quite powerful. Again I appreciate your empathy and feelings and time you took here to share your response and thoughts. All best wishes, Patrice notify [notify] On Behalf Of patricecurry Tuesday, May 09, 2006 11:53 AM patricecurry Fwd: RE: Re: Factors for Suicide? jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: Hi Patrice, I just checked my email before retiring for the evening and saw your response. I am compelled to answer before bed. Your story has been absorbed and felt by me - so much so - that to ignore your post this evening would be very unsettling at least. You are welcome for my empathy and understanding (for a base of not being in your shoes) per your story. However, if I may say so at this moment. I have lived with lose all my life. And, I have parents and a mother who is still living that refuses to talk about her trauma of loosing her first full term baby within 2 to 6 hrs of birth, 11 months before i was born. I wish I could fill in all the blanks but it is not my trauma to tell or share. Being in the aftermath is my story but there really isn't any pieces to put together for real true understanding. Only the reality that this tragedy happen and I was the immediate result of lose. I can say too, that the only thing my mother will acknowledge on a good and lucid day of relaxation, is, that she was in morning for a good five years without any real support for lose like we have today. As often realized by those that go back in history to find the details of a personal story. It is in finding that the story was truly about another's karma or destiny that we ended up being an appendage to. That then becomes our own story. Environment (emotional as well as physical) conditioning and learned behaviors are the rock of our own soul experience. As a whole we are or should I say, one is much better able to recover from a tragedy with facts of reality and understanding that life forms its own reality without our input. It then becomes for each individual to form their own reality of just that compels one to go on to make the most of their lives. Some can do it successfully and others are burdened with the ghosts of past that evades their essence of self. I also have as my youngest sister who was fostered into our family at age 4 1/2 and adopted at 6 yrs, her incapability to form any real attachment or trust in anyone including herself. Being the eldest and the big sister and a role I continue that my father would want to be carried, I can tell you that rescuing and guiding and listening to my sister is a feat beyond Patience or reality. I have had to go back to my mother time and again to say that even with the highest quality of glue available, trying to mend the cracks in a broken soul is like trying to piece together a porcelain vase. No matter how hard one tries or how careful they are to refit the porcelain there are fine lines that run deep that nobody can fix. One just hopes that the chips are replaceable to a fine outline. Multi-generational behaviors and conditioning are complex. For my sister the fall out has been monumental. Her mother, she herself, her siblings, her adopted siblings and parents, her marriage and her children, It hits all and reverberates continuously. I was reading an arm chair psychologist take on life happens theory the other day and her explanation for all the woes in one life was to forgive for yourself. I am in favor of the general philosophy of self preservation and the goal to strive for a better life. What I found and find in reality though is that unanswered questions of who we are and where we come from interrupts the fabric of self confidence to go forward successfully with any longevity of peace. Forbearance is great and many people have had no choice if they choose to live to only rely on this one common denominator, but to really be self contained with any self is to be whole. There have been many movies and written documents of people who have overcome and they are inspirational but not one is left with a taste of being where they are because of lose or feeling in complete. Life happens and its easy for any one person to generally philosophize lives take but for those who have to go through their own hell or lose, life then becomes a matter of patching the chips in the porcelain and gluing the fine lines to perfection. To digress for a moment: Yes, I was a Nurses aide for five years in a Nursing home and medical floor of a hospital. I have my counseling certificate as a drug and alcohol counselor and sponsor and I have years of multi generational counseling stem from my graduate studies in the area. My involvement through the years have also taken me into serious counseling and sponsoring of the prevention of child abuse and its multi family generational interactions along with advocating on a county, state and national boards for the welfare of healthy interactive family relations. I have developed educational materials for the primary and secondary level of schools on a local, county and state level and have been an active school liaison between parents, police, drug agencies and school boards. Hopefully this information answers some of your questions a month ago when you wrote and questioned my background being a Virgo! In the meantime and to the point. The feeling I got from your mother's chart was visceral, I absorbed some of the feelings and could visualize some of the trauma. I am glad that with the help of astrology delineation I was first able to pick up on a self inflicted gun shot wound before I got carried away with other possibilities. Too, I kept and keep visualizing an in closed place where the suicide event took place. that is why I questioned a car or a barn. Garage, bathroom, something familiar with your grandfather that he felt safe and private in. Too, your mother's involvement, because it would be familiar to her and very traumatic. I am glad that it happen away from home - so the real effects weren't witnessed by your grandmother or mother or any of her siblings. However, the shock and disbelief sometimes is even more so. I have an uncle who was killed on a expressway and the phone call came into our home for my father that he had been in a severe car accident. His children some of them young teenagers where on the phone so no one could get through. The frantic calls by my mother to try and patch trough to my aunt were horrifying as my father who was in bed literally flew out of it grabbing his pants on the way out the door to make the trek to the hospital forty minutes away. My aunt was left with five children from the ages of 2yrs to 16 yrs old. All of them totally shell shocked. I remember my mother taking the children out shopping for the three day wake and funeral. My nearest cousin was two yrs older than me, 13 yrs old. She got her first pair of high heels for her father's wake and funeral. In the end, 17 yrs later it was my Aunt (my father's older sister by 17 months who was killed in a car accident at the local intersection of her neighborhood. The fall out since 1963 when my Uncle died has had a repercussion on his children, their relationships and their children that I could write a volume on. My younger sister is another volume and my lose and it repercussions on my mother and siblings and children, another volume. My husband lost his mother to an early and unexpected death when he was 2 years old. So, I can write another volume on those repercussions. My point, I am sure you have gathered is very real from my own experiences besides my schooling and applied interests. It is my empathy that is wider Patrice because I do feel the reality. You are lucky in some ways that your mother is still alive and willing to open up and share. I am glad the Bach flower therapy is helping for both her and you. Will you ever really know the truth of where your Grandfather's demise was or the circumstances that lead to it - probably not. But, Being such a sensitive individual I do pick up that his pride and self attainment was in jeopardy of loosing face and I am not surprised that taking his own life was an admirable way of resolving the shame for him and his wife and family. I don't know if you can research police records for that time period, but maybe in time this is something you might want to do on your own. In the meantime, you have the family stories, the repercussions of family members and the astrology charts to follow and piece the puzzle together. It is really great that you have your mother your way and can nurture her soul in her advancing years. If for nothing else, I like the idea and it seems to fit, that your grandfather might of taken his life in a car overlooking the vast ocean of outbalance in its own peace and tranquility. How fitting for such a desperate gentle soul. Suicides like other loses do take at least five years to come out of the varying degrees of lose and acceptance. And, yes it takes a good 3 generations if not more to cleanse the soul of grief. And another one to two generations to go on without the burden of untimely lose or atrocity. All my best, As always, Uttara Patrice Curry <patricecurry wrote: Hello Dear Uttara, Thanks for your very thoughtful and kind note. And no problem regarding the book title, it's quite good in my opinion. It has been very good for my mother to talk to me about this since her move here four years ago. She had never really spoken of it, and at the time of his death no one really spoke – awful ey to not speak of it, or with my mother regarding this when it all happened, but it was quite common at that time to handle these kinds of things without speaking of them. After the passing of my brother and her move here she suddenly was good with trying some of the Bach Flowers and that has been very good for her. Something she was always kind of against -different healing methods or an unusual - to her - diet etc.. just no interest, in part perhaps. As Bach and homeopathy are things I'm quite involved in, it was amazing to see her ask about a remedy. And I have always spoken more of this tragic event, have known of it and grown up with it, as my grandmother spoke to me of it more. He did this away from their home and the police had handled it all before coming to their home. I have never asked the kinds of details of where exactly, in a car perhaps, on a hill near the ocean, I don't know for sure but seem to remember something of it. My grandmother has always told me he did this in hopes it would relieve the financial difficulty, and via insurance, that they as well as so many others were going through at that time. The 30's here in the US were very, very hard on many families. Another thing to note is my grandfather was from Denmark, coming here at around 20 years old. I don't know if it's actually true by my own experience, having not lived there, but have always been told by my family that it was more accepting of suicide in the Danish culture. As for time, you could be correct – all we know is that he had been found and all dealt with before they came to my mother's home. Your thoughts on it and detailed analysis are very interesting, many thanks. You wrote: It is also (being a counselor in muti-generational behavior) an added visualization and psychological understanding to see the familial inheritance through the astrology charts of all individuals involved. I didn't know that you were a counselor, and isn't this interesting being multi-generational behavior. Yes, having this ability to see this in charts must be very helpful and much more clear for your understanding. Fantastic Uttara! As for suicides, I've often been told or heard that it strongly affects 5 generations. Don't know how that number is the magic one ;-) I do though clearly see the affects of this tragic day and act so strongly in my mother and see it in her views in raising us, her thoughts particularly regarding men and my brothers, etc.. My grandmother was an exceptionally strong and capable woman and well beyond just this obviously large event in her life. She somehow through her life gave my mother such confidence in the strength of women. The polar opposite of course of what her experience had taught her regarding her father and men so it was very interesting to consider her thoughts and different views while I was growing up and during my life. Also she is a Gemini – always two views on everything right – ha! ;-) Best wishes, Patrice _____ jyotish-vidya [jyotish- vidya] On Behalf Of Uttara Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:50 PM jyotish-vidya RE: Re: Factors for Suicide? p.s. Your Mother's Dasa for May 16th show Ra Sa Ve Ju Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: Dear Patrice, Ah, Yes. Like a biography, it all falls into proper place with astrological details. Along with Wendy's details too, it makes for a compelling thread of familial effects and touches continuing generations. I am so so sorry Patrice. Your lengthy input and Wendy's precise outline on further astro points makes for a wonderful lesson on many levels. I know that I appreciate all the effort and accuracy highlighting the very real and personal reality. Thank you for sharing this personal story. So sad, so hurtful. so tragic. Yes, I did pick up on the sensitivity of your grandfather in his chart and the tragic fallout of his daughter. Both with Jupiter in Pisces was a tip off. Among many other details. After I hurriedly sent off my response to you I did take a further look into navamsa for your mother's birth data and the transit chart for the 17th. I did miss Wendy's earlier emails on the 3rd hse involvement for suicide and Mars for weapon but I am glad I picked up on it through what I could see even though I did not go into detail. There is no doubt that your mother, as her siblings, were deeply affected by their father's suicide. I am glad for you that you mother is still alive and can talk about it a little with you. It must be consoling in some way for you even though painful to know the truth and be able to put some of the pieces in order. It's good your mother can talk about it for her sake. She was unusually close to her father and lost him at such a critical age for a daughter. The timing that you talked about for the event of the suicide being in afternoon is interesting. Intuitively, I want to say later. He was home after a day of visiting many - in essence saying good bye. He knew it was his last day - he could feel it in his heart and soul -his bones. He was ready to move on. feeling really melancholic. Sunset for May 16th for San Pedro was 18:42:56. I am guessing because there is a question of time of death, that no one was home when he took his life. He was found dead. Somewhere in the home, garage or yard area. Was there a barn by any chance? Was it your mother who found him or did she come home to all the hell breaking loose? I see your point about Virgo Asc and Hasta nakshatra but I am also favoring a possibility of a Swati Nakshatra for Libra Asc which would mean a time beginning at 16:39:09 with Swati at 6* 40'. ending at 17:43:00 with Swati Asc 20* Li 7' 51" Taking the time of 16:39:09 (4:39:09 pm) The Dasa was Ke Ma Su Ma (for date and time) This makes Asc 6* Libra/Ve, 7th from Aries/Mar (hse of others) and Asc in opposite conjunction to Moon 5*, Sa 2*, Ve 2*. Me 10*. Ra 14* in opposite conjunction to Ke 14*, Me 10* in Aries/Mar Ma 4* aspecting both 10th hse (lst) Libra/Ve and its Asc 6* along with aspect to Sa 2* ,Mo 5*, Ve,2*, Me 10* in 4th hse (7th) Aries/Mo from Mars. Sa 2* aspects 3rd hse (9th) Gemini/Me from Sa and Libra/Ve is 7th hse (lst) from Sa and 10th hse (4th) Capricorn/Sa with Mar 4* Moon star Ashwini in Aries/Ma along with Ashwini Star to Me Ve Sa in Aries/Ma Rahu in lst hse Nakshatra Swati along with Asc Nakshatra Swati. Su 2* Taurus 8th hse - second from Aries/Ma Jupiter 8* Pisces/Ju is 6th and 8th from Conjuction Asc 6* in Libra/Ve and aspects 9th hse Scorpio/Ma (2nd) from Jupiter Navamsa shows an interesting support of where the planets are placed in the Rasi. Sun (2nd hse) in Capricorn/Sa as Mars (4th hse) is in Rasi. Sa and Ve in Aries/Ma as they are also in Rasi (7th hse). Mo (th hse) in Taurus/Ve as Su (8th hse)is in Rasi. Ke (9th hse) in Leo/Su as Gk (llth hse) is in Rasi. Ju (10th hse) in Virgo/Mer opposite Pisces/Ju (6th hse) in Rasi. Mer is placed in Cancer/mo 8th hse. Ma and Ra in 3rd hse Aquarius/Sa In Rasi: Asc 6* Libra/Ve with Ra 14* Nakshatra Swati emphases Swati potential for self destructive behavior if stressed. Swati being a sensitive soul and prone to negativity when not feeling of use and balanced Moon's star Ashwini ruled by Ketu with Ketu in same hse Aries/Ma and conjuct Mer with Ashwini Nakshatra can lead one to impulsive acts of destruction when not feeling their effect on others is of benefit or the world admiration they so need in return for energy put forth for others is not forth coming in sincerity or usefulness. To digress for a moment: There are three times during the day that seem to spark self demise. More so than any other time of day. Those being, around dinner time or twight light (cocktail hour), when one feels their self in aloneness after their days work outside of themself. After dinner hour or as one might say the late cocktail hour (without dinner) and then bedtime with or without alcohol or drugs in the system. They are all the vulnerable times. the body rhythm changes at these times too and are lower in objective reasoning especially with depression. Often people hear of tragedies of death in the middle of the night. Actually these fall under the depression of fear and loneliness and hopelessness that are exasperated from earlier events or actions in the 8pm to Midnight hour of despondency. What happens in the middle of the night or very early morning before sunrise (if not a repercussion failing of the body's system from 8pm onward to bedtime actions), is really from mostly a heart attack or cerebral attack. It is instant and often fatal. Heart attacks are notorious too, early mornings after rising for the day. Strokes strike at any time. Heart attacks are often ignored in early morning and people do die from them in late afternoon or early evenings. Heart rhythm abnormalities strike at any time and are often frightening and disabling, if not killers. Moon transits set off a whole bunch of psychiatric reactions. A full moon in the middle of the night on a psychiatric floor is really something to witness. (That's my Nursing speaking) The feeling in these charts presented here is palpable. I feel I just read a book about three generations of lives - the ripple effect of ones sensitivities, troubles and their actions. It is also (being a counselor in muti-generational behavior) an added visualization and psychological understanding to see the familial inheritance through the astrology charts of all individuals involved. Thank you Patrice. for sharing. This is a keeper. All my best to you - and then some. As Always, Uttara p.s. In the files section of the database I have a few authentic documents on how time was recorded in USA with DST in the 20's and 30's plus others. If I am not mistaken California was NOT on DST in 1927 or 1939 However, a few cities were. Chicago, Philadelphia just to name two of a a few. Thanks ever so much for the book referral too.. Patrice Curry <patricecurry wrote: Hi Dear Uttara, Yes, I saw your earlier post regarding your mother. I'm happy that she is doing better right now and send my best wishes as always. You are right on spot here with respect to this suicide - it was a gun. Thanks so much for your thoughts on this chart and your time on it Uttara as I know you are very busy at this time. This chart is actually my mother's chart and he my grandfather. I spoke to her today and interestingly she brought this up so I was able to ask a few questions again. This happened on May 16, 1939, versus the 17th, which makes this even a more dramatic chart on the day of his death. I had thought it could be so when looking at the 17th's chart, but wondered if it was just my own thoughts or prejudices creating the earlier Moon which I like to be very careful of. Interestingly though indeed it was the 16th. Parashara Light is showing no DST on the transit chart, but one on the birth chart so I plan to call them tomorrow about this as we've seen this earlier on list recently. For my mother this has given her great worries and anxieties (6H) for her life and much of the other things you mention in your post. And yes, she was very close to him and had a lovely family before this happened. He was a gentle man and the stories of him and what my grandmother has told me are always of his peaceable ways, kindnesses.. as well as he was a lot of fun for my mother and her family. I am my mother's 2nd child which shows me then in her 7H. And in my chart, Ketu, representing maternal grandfather is right on my first house. This is also in nakshatra Magha (Ketu) whose deity is the Pitras, one's family ancestors. And intriguingly, my book lists "grandfather of a woman and grandmother of a man as: 1st house." I have always found this quite interesting. In my mother's chart Saturn owns her 8H, 12H from 9H of father, also owned by Saturn. Saturn goes to her 6H (12H of loss for me in her chart) of Scorpio at 11 degrees. My natal Sun, ruler of my 1H, is at 12 degrees Scorpio in my 4H of mother and also my Moon there debilitated in Scorpio, and almost to exact worse degree. My mother's 7H also has Ketu in Moola, Ketu's star again, and 7H owned by Jupiter. Jupiter is also in Pisces in my own chart and in 8H (and at 11 degrees!) which "Death and legacies of grandfather for a woman" is listed as: 8H, and one's ancestors along with other significators for this. In navamsa, my mother's 7H has Jupiter in Leo at 27 degrees. My ascendant is at 26 degrees Leo. She also has Moon just short of 26 degrees Leo in her Navamsa chart (and that Mars as well at 3 degrees in Magha.) Another interesting thing regarding her Navamsa chart is Mercury is final depositor of that chart and is also Rashi lagna lord, and it is in her Navamsa 8H. This is right exactly by degree in Virgo where my debilitated Venus sits (and conjoined exactly with my natal Neptune who is also listed for suicides - although again no outer planets are used in Jyotish.) This goes on and on. More information regarding the suicide: My mother has said that the police arrived at her house at twilight before dark, and she thinks it was around 7 PM. This would make sense when checking the time for sunset on May 16th. Her father visited many people that day and we know that he didn't commit this act until the afternoon. Given the time of police arrival, this gives us some sense of the time of the actual suicide and if we check a few times, the results are quite interesting. From 2:45 until 5:06 this gives a Virgo rising (my 2nd House, which also is listed as ancestors.) Mrityu Bhaga degree for Virgo for ascendant is listed as 14 degrees in Ernst Wilhelm's book. That would give a time of around 3:50 to 3:55. Again I want to be careful to not be adding to this too much? From 3:32 to 4:36 we are in the Nakshatra of Hasta - interesting from the perspective of symbol - the hand.. Also that it is Moon's star and my 4H having debilitated Moon to nearly exact degree of highest debility in Scorpio - along with other thoughts pertaining to Moon's involvement here. My natal Mars is at 9 degrees Virgo, in Sun's star (not yet in Hasta), and again my 1H ruled by Sun in Scorpio, my 4H of mother. However also my debilitated Venus conjoined Neptune is at 26 and 27 degrees in Mars star/Jupiter sub, (no longer in Hasta). Saturn, who owns my 6 and 7 houses is also in Virgo at 19 degrees and in Hasta. So my 2H of Virgo leaves plenty of food for thought with respect to correlating this and perhaps his time of death. And all the while, my 8H Jupiter giving full aspect onto 2H as well as my Sun and Moon and that first house, and Ketu by nearly exact degree, 1 degree away. This also quite intriguing considering the above regarding Jupiter and the degrees that correlate in my mother's and my charts. There is so much in my mother's chart as well. Also my younger brother who passed also would be represented by her 9H. And from my grandfather's perspective, he lost all his siblings - again represented by his 3H, Aries, my mother's 11H, and that debilitated Mars. Again, I'm not sure how more experienced astrologers would view this but in the cuspal chart, my mother's 11H cusp is at 3:48 and the debilitated Mars is at 3:43 Cancer in an exact Kendra. My grandfather's loss of all siblings via this Mars too? And Mars itself a karaka for siblings. One brother was murdered, another drowned, a sister died while in childbirth. All connected with this Mars in Cancer. Uttara, my significator book that I'm quite fond of is: "Dictionary of Significators in Astrology" - by Umang Taneja and P K Sarna. Kindest wishes, Patrice _____ jyotish-vidya [jyotish- vidya] On Behalf Of Uttara Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:49 PM jyotish-vidya RE: Re: Factors for Suicide? Hi Patrice, Nice to see you here. I too, have been away from list with other matters for much of last month. So do forgive me for not getting back in touch with your email some weeks back on group. I would like to answer that and pursue your line of thinking regarding my current Dasa. Soon. I am still trying to balance and find the energy with a lot of full plates right now. This chart that you have presented below is very interesting, indeed. Something that I have wanted to ask you now for a while, is the significator book that you often refer to for reference. Can you share its title? Mars might not be an indicator for suicide but I am rather incline to suggest that because of its desire foundation and its directness that often can be aggressive when not being assertive with its meaning in blood, injury and accidents, is that it could be the herring with emotional transit of Moon as a trigger to set the impulsivity off to take ones own life. I think too, Saturn with its tendency to be melancholic can play a role with Mars - especially on a bad day. I had a look at the transits for may 17th 1939. Oh, baby! Yikes. Without getting into the lord rules - Nakshatras, I can see clearly that 5 planets are transiting in 4th hse Aries/Mars for the date. Me Ke and Mo are in conjuction. Ve and Sa are in conjuction. And, Mars who is in lst hse Capricorn/Sa aspects Aries/Mars There are a lot of stress factors on the day of suicide with just these planets positions, not to mention the daughters natal chart in regard to her father. Also of note. Rahu is in 10th hse, Libra/Ve for the date. A lot of despondency of self. Passionate Ve gone awry. Lack of World affirmation. Mars impulsive hopelessness. Ketu - a feeling of no hope Alcohol or drugs involved to alter the mind (Mer) of any sense. Especially, with Ju in Pisces in 3rd hse of thinking and communicating, 12th from Aries/Mars. Dasa for the Day Sa Sa Sa From the daughters birth chart - Dasa, for the day, Ra Sa Ve Sa Sa in her sixth hse Scorpio/Ma, Aries/Ma eleventh (hopes and wishes) vanquished with her fathers demise. Mar transiting her 8th hse (lost of male love one) for females. I am guessing self inflicted gunshot wound. Something with a lot of blood - knife maybe Tragic. As always, Uttara Terms of Service. Astrology </gads?t=ms </gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=V > &k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=V edic+astrology&w3=Personal+reading&c=3&s=64&.sig=yoswT0XE- vB9llMiB1sT1Q> chart Vedic </gads?t=ms </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=V > &k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=V edic+astrology&w3=Personal+reading&c=3&s=64&.sig=_51dCbxdai4uLT_0QkDk QQ> astrology Personal </gads?t=ms </gads? t=ms&k=Personal+reading&w1=Astrology+chart&w2= > &k=Personal+reading&w1=Astrology+chart&w2= Vedic+astrology&w3=Personal+reading&c=3&s=64&.sig=tMlZMzSPyuffO0tEMLY pFg> reading _____ * Visit your group "jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya> " on the web. * jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya? subject=Un> * <> Terms of Service. _____ Astrology chart Vedic astrology Personal reading Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya Terms of Service. "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you...As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on FareChase Astrology chart Vedic astrology Personal reading Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya Terms of Service. "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you...As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. Astrology </gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=V edic+astrology&w3=Personal+reading&c=3&s=64&.sig=yoswT0XE- vB9llMiB1sT1Q> chart Vedic </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=V edic+astrology&w3=Personal+reading&c=3&s=64&.sig=_51dCbxdai4uLT_0QkDk QQ> astrology Personal </gads? t=ms&k=Personal+reading&w1=Astrology+chart&w2= Vedic+astrology&w3=Personal+reading&c=3&s=64&.sig=tMlZMzSPyuffO0tEMLY pFg> reading _____ * Visit your group "jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya> " on the web. * jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya? subject=Un> * <> Terms of Service. _____ Astrology chart Vedic astrology Personal reading Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya Terms of Service. "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you...As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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