Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Namaste Dear Uttara, Don't get me wrong - I am not 100% convinced that it is Gemini, even though it makes sense to me. Obviously, I did want to explore the possibility of it being Gemini by pointing out some factors that support it. However, I think there is one mystery that I have solved regarding astrodatabank saying "LMR calculates sunrise at that date and location as 4:38 AM" and others getting the sunrise as 6:03 AM. <http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm> This difference is due the astrodatabank using the time zone of "LMT - 6:44:48" as stated on the web page. With this time zone 4:38AM is about 10 minutes before sunrise. And if you look at the (western) birth chart provided on their site, you'll see the Sun positioned at just 3 degrees below the horizon (lagna). The 6:03 time is the time of sunrise if one uses the time zone of 8:00 East of GMT which most software seems to use by default. If one were to use the same exact birth data information as provided from astrodatabank to draw up the Vedic chart, then one would get a lagna that is in the middle of Gemini, about 3 degrees from the position of the Sun (same difference as in the Western birth chart provided on astrodatabank -- the differenence in degree between lagna and Sun is the same no matter what zodiac is used). As stated previously, to get the Taurus lagna the birth time needs to be about 1.5 hours before sunrise or more. If one uses the time provided on astrodatabank (4:38AM), but uses the 8:00 East of GMT timezone instead of the timezone provided on astrodatabank, then this corresponds to approx 1.5 hours before sunrise and a lagna somewhere in the tranistion between Gemini and Taurus depending on the Lat/Long used. Take it easy, Sean jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > To All, > > Not to let anything rest quietly - I did just pull up a chart for Ganjia, China using 6.00 East of GMT vs. 6.44 Sinkiang - Tibet time zone for 1949. > > This is what I got: > > 6 July 1935 > 04:38 (6:00 East GMT) > 102 E 30' 00" 35 N 24' 00" > Lagna: 27 Gemini 02' 27.79" > > Just relating to all, that I am trying to cover all ground that one would questioned for research. > > As Always, > > Uttara > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Hi Sean, Thanks for all the clarification. It is very helpful and informative. However, I need to go back to what was really recorded in Time Zone for the date. Being 6.44 at it's location in 1949 before the Chinese War. Afterwords, the time zone was changed to 8:00 East of GMT for the whole of China. I agree, the birth time can be in question and depending on what birth time is used be the same outcome of a Western delineation or a Vedic one if the birth time is altered or adjusted for outcome. Uttara Makes your head want to swim - doesn't it! Sean Patrick Kelly <toosean wrote: Namaste Dear Uttara, Don't get me wrong - I am not 100% convinced that it is Gemini, even though it makes sense to me. Obviously, I did want to explore the possibility of it being Gemini by pointing out some factors that support it. However, I think there is one mystery that I have solved regarding astrodatabank saying "LMR calculates sunrise at that date and location as 4:38 AM" and others getting the sunrise as 6:03 AM. <http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm> This difference is due the astrodatabank using the time zone of "LMT - 6:44:48" as stated on the web page. With this time zone 4:38AM is about 10 minutes before sunrise. And if you look at the (western) birth chart provided on their site, you'll see the Sun positioned at just 3 degrees below the horizon (lagna). The 6:03 time is the time of sunrise if one uses the time zone of 8:00 East of GMT which most software seems to use by default. If one were to use the same exact birth data information as provided from astrodatabank to draw up the Vedic chart, then one would get a lagna that is in the middle of Gemini, about 3 degrees from the position of the Sun (same difference as in the Western birth chart provided on astrodatabank -- the differenence in degree between lagna and Sun is the same no matter what zodiac is used). As stated previously, to get the Taurus lagna the birth time needs to be about 1.5 hours before sunrise or more. If one uses the time provided on astrodatabank (4:38AM), but uses the 8:00 East of GMT timezone instead of the timezone provided on astrodatabank, then this corresponds to approx 1.5 hours before sunrise and a lagna somewhere in the tranistion between Gemini and Taurus depending on the Lat/Long used. Take it easy, Sean jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > To All, > > Not to let anything rest quietly - I did just pull up a chart for Ganjia, China using 6.00 East of GMT vs. 6.44 Sinkiang - Tibet time zone for 1949. > > This is what I got: > > 6 July 1935 > 04:38 (6:00 East GMT) > 102 E 30' 00" 35 N 24' 00" > Lagna: 27 Gemini 02' 27.79" > > Just relating to all, that I am trying to cover all ground that one would questioned for research. > > As Always, > > Uttara > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Dear Sean, Uttara and All, There can be no doubt whatsoever of the position of Rahu (in 8th). There has to come a time when speculation gives way to fact. The invading Chinese army as the root cause of his exile is fact - bhukti lord Rahu in 8th with his dispositor aspecting 10th is fact. No amount of favouring Gemini will change that fact... We have to remember the basic tenets of Jyotish i.e. 'The significations of the planet and the affairs of the house it occupies will manifest during its dasa'. There can be no doubt that Tibet was under attack (8th house Rahu). Transits are (extremely) important but the (natal) position of dasa/bhukti lords is the first consideration...always! Sean Wrote: //Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land indicating more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of Jupiter this time.// The nodes neither give nor receive aspects... Besides Rahu bhukti in 7th DOES NOT tell us of conflict/war/battle front...these are the significations of 8th house - occupied by bhukti lord Rahu. This is what was manifesting during Rahu bhukti (in Moon dasa)... Moon occupying 4th house. I have rectified many charts over the last 20 yrs and I'm in no doubt that his lagna is Taurus. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Sean Patrick Kelly" <toosean <jyotish-vidya> Monday, March 20, 2006 8:13 AM Re: Dalai Lama - Gemini? Namaste Dear Uttara, Don't get me wrong - I am not 100% convinced that it is Gemini, even though it makes sense to me. Obviously, I did want to explore the possibility of it being Gemini by pointing out some factors that support it. However, I think there is one mystery that I have solved regarding astrodatabank saying "LMR calculates sunrise at that date and location as 4:38 AM" and others getting the sunrise as 6:03 AM. <http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm> This difference is due the astrodatabank using the time zone of "LMT - 6:44:48" as stated on the web page. With this time zone 4:38AM is about 10 minutes before sunrise. And if you look at the (western) birth chart provided on their site, you'll see the Sun positioned at just 3 degrees below the horizon (lagna). The 6:03 time is the time of sunrise if one uses the time zone of 8:00 East of GMT which most software seems to use by default. If one were to use the same exact birth data information as provided from astrodatabank to draw up the Vedic chart, then one would get a lagna that is in the middle of Gemini, about 3 degrees from the position of the Sun (same difference as in the Western birth chart provided on astrodatabank -- the differenence in degree between lagna and Sun is the same no matter what zodiac is used). As stated previously, to get the Taurus lagna the birth time needs to be about 1.5 hours before sunrise or more. If one uses the time provided on astrodatabank (4:38AM), but uses the 8:00 East of GMT timezone instead of the timezone provided on astrodatabank, then this corresponds to approx 1.5 hours before sunrise and a lagna somewhere in the tranistion between Gemini and Taurus depending on the Lat/Long used. Take it easy, Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Namaste Wendy, I am definitely not as confident as you and I agree that you are definitely much more experinenced. I didn't realize that you had already rectified the birth time. Still, I hope you don't mind further discussion of the two lagnas - this is a good learning excerise even if I am wrong to give more weight to the Gemini lagna. I definitely agree that Moon being in 4th house & Rahu being in 8th would indicate 4th house & 8th house matters being activated during Moon-Rahu. That makes perfect sense. However, regardless of lagna, if one were to simply take the natural significations of these 2 planets it would indicate the same: upheaval/sudden change (Rahu) and home (Moon). And, as you stated, the natural significations of the planets become acitivated during their dasas. From what I learned the significations will only come to pass if the natal chart indicates it in the first place & you have to take into account the transits. In other words, there needs to be a confluence of factors. Regarding the particulars of the Taurus lagna chart, it seems to me that Moon and Venus in the 4th, aspected by the 9th/10th lord Saturn would indicate mostly good if not great results in 4th house matters. On the other hand, as I have mentioned before, 6th/11th lord Mars in the 4th house with no mitigating association or aspect is to me more like what has actually transpired regarding the Dalai Lama's home land. The nickname given to the 6th house on your website is "Enemy - Ari". So 6th lord Mars in 4th house can be literally be interpreted as the enemy occupying the home. Given the natural indications of Mars and the indications of 6th lord & 11 lord, it makes a lot of sense that home land would experience some severe difficulties and be a source of worry for most if not all of the native's life. Since the Gemini lagna chart does certainly indicate beaucoup troubles with home land, it makes sense that during Moon-Rahu, upheaval/sudden change (Rahu) could occur related to home (Moon). Where as with Taurus Lagna, 4th house seems fortified enough with benefics that I would not have thought that the 4th house matters would be so severely troubled for such a native. Combined with the transits I wrote about for Gemini lagna (including bukti lord Rahu transiting 4th house and dasa lord Moon transiting 12th) this still is enough for me to give some weight to the Gemini lagna when considering this significant life event and also the chart as a whole. It is entirely possible that I could be way off base here, I know. But I am just writing what makes sense to me. Maybe if you have the time to give your input on the dasas and transits in effect on the other dates of life-changing events I mentioned it would help to further the comparison of the 2 lagnas for those who are following along. And better still if more people would contribute their input. The Dalai Lama was enthroned on 02/22/1940. He assumed full authority on 11/17/1950 (this was sudden and due to the invasion of the Chinese army according to what I found). This is such a good discussion and it has been compelling me to spend a lot of time on it, but I need to try and give it a rest for awhile. Hopefully, for my own good, & especially for my eyes, I'll be able to do that. I hope some other members will chime in with input during the week. Take it easy, Sean -- In jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sean, Uttara and All, > > There can be no doubt whatsoever of the position of Rahu (in 8th). > There has to come a time when speculation gives way to fact. The > invading Chinese army as the root cause of his exile is fact - bhukti > lord Rahu in 8th with his dispositor aspecting 10th is fact. No > amount of favouring Gemini will change that fact... > > We have to remember the basic tenets of Jyotish i.e. 'The > significations of the planet and the affairs of the house it occupies > will manifest during its dasa'. There can be no doubt that Tibet was > under attack (8th house Rahu). Transits are (extremely) important but > the (natal) position of dasa/bhukti lords is the first > consideration...always! > > Sean Wrote: > //Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land > indicating > more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not > so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of > Jupiter this time.// > > The nodes neither give nor receive aspects... Besides Rahu bhukti in > 7th DOES NOT tell us of conflict/war/battle front...these are the > significations of 8th house - occupied by bhukti lord Rahu. This is > what was manifesting during Rahu bhukti (in Moon dasa)... Moon > occupying 4th house. > > I have rectified many charts over the last 20 yrs and I'm in no doubt > that his lagna is Taurus. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "Sean Patrick Kelly" <toosean > <jyotish-vidya> > Monday, March 20, 2006 8:13 AM > Re: Dalai Lama - Gemini? > > > Namaste > > Dear Uttara, > > Don't get me wrong - I am not 100% convinced that it is Gemini, even > though it makes sense to me. Obviously, I did want to explore the > possibility of it being Gemini by pointing out some factors that > support it. > > However, I think there is one mystery that I have solved regarding > astrodatabank saying "LMR calculates sunrise at that date and > location as 4:38 AM" and others getting the sunrise as 6:03 AM. > > <http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm> > > This difference is due the astrodatabank using the time zone of > "LMT - > 6:44:48" as stated on the web page. With this time zone 4:38AM is > about 10 minutes before sunrise. And if you look at the (western) > birth chart provided on their site, you'll see the Sun positioned at > just 3 degrees below the horizon (lagna). > > The 6:03 time is the time of sunrise if one uses the time zone of > 8:00 East of GMT which most software seems to use by default. > > If one were to use the same exact birth data information as provided > from astrodatabank to draw up the Vedic chart, then one would get a > lagna that is in the middle of Gemini, about 3 degrees from the > position of the Sun (same difference as in the Western birth chart > provided on astrodatabank -- the differenence in degree between lagna > and Sun is the same no matter what zodiac is used). > > As stated previously, to get the Taurus lagna the birth time needs to > be about 1.5 hours before sunrise or more. > > If one uses the time provided on astrodatabank (4:38AM), but uses the > 8:00 East of GMT timezone instead of the timezone provided on > astrodatabank, then this corresponds to approx 1.5 hours before > sunrise and a lagna somewhere in the tranistion between Gemini and > Taurus depending on the Lat/Long used. > > Take it easy, > Sean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I have arrived late in this discussion but I will put my 2 cents in here for a Taurus ascendent. I looked at this chart some time ago and thought that 21+ deg Taurus seemed to fit .This gives a navamsha ascendent of Cancer. If you refer to Jain's book on planetary degrees ---- 22 deg Taurus Degree of Directorship Symbol---- Hand holding a torch amidst the darkness "Denotes a light bearer whose mission is to guide others and to uplift them. No matter how dark the way, his presence inspires brightness. There is no weakness in this native, who knows just what he is in this world to do and who does it." >Regarding the particulars of the Taurus lagna chart, it seems to me that Moon and Venus in the 4th, aspected by the 9th/10th lord Saturn would indicate mostly good if not great results in 4th house matters.< Sean, The Mo is lord of 3H(12 to 4) and is placed close to the equal cusp of 4H ..This can disrupt home life. The Mo is in sambanda with 10th lord Sa showing his exile is a major part in his rise to prominence. Regards Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 - Dear Wendy, taurus was what I was initially working on till doubts regarding time zones and time came in. If nothing else, Saturn in 10th very well describes his loss of homeland. Saturn being the yogkarak still kept him as the spiritual leader of his people and Rahu in the 8th also ties well with his changed circumstance. But I think somewhere along the way we lost track of the reason we started discussing this chart. We were trying to demonstrate how Jupiter's aspect on Saturn helps modify the natural maleficence of the planet. It has been a good discussion and one from which I have gained a lot. You had also mentioned the chart of Saddam Hussein, which we never took up for further study, as we got engrossed in DL's chart. If you remember we had studied Saddam's chart some years ago when the war started. I don't know if we still have that in the archives, but I am sure it would be interesting to take it up and see how the planets are working now . And how things are progressing! Regards, Neena -- In jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sean, Uttara and All, > > There can be no doubt whatsoever of the position of Rahu (in 8th). > There has to come a time when speculation gives way to fact. The > invading Chinese army as the root cause of his exile is fact - bhukti > lord Rahu in 8th with his dispositor aspecting 10th is fact. No > amount of favouring Gemini will change that fact... > > We have to remember the basic tenets of Jyotish i.e. 'The > significations of the planet and the affairs of the house it occupies > will manifest during its dasa'. There can be no doubt that Tibet was > under attack (8th house Rahu). Transits are (extremely) important but > the (natal) position of dasa/bhukti lords is the first > consideration...always! > > Sean Wrote: > //Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land > indicating > more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not > so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of > Jupiter this time.// > > The nodes neither give nor receive aspects... Besides Rahu bhukti in > 7th DOES NOT tell us of conflict/war/battle front...these are the > significations of 8th house - occupied by bhukti lord Rahu. This is > what was manifesting during Rahu bhukti (in Moon dasa)... Moon > occupying 4th house. > > I have rectified many charts over the last 20 yrs and I'm in no doubt > that his lagna is Taurus. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "Sean Patrick Kelly" <toosean > <jyotish-vidya> > Monday, March 20, 2006 8:13 AM > Re: Dalai Lama - Gemini? > > > Namaste > > Dear Uttara, > > Don't get me wrong - I am not 100% convinced that it is Gemini, even > though it makes sense to me. Obviously, I did want to explore the > possibility of it being Gemini by pointing out some factors that > support it. > > However, I think there is one mystery that I have solved regarding > astrodatabank saying "LMR calculates sunrise at that date and > location as 4:38 AM" and others getting the sunrise as 6:03 AM. > > <http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm> > > This difference is due the astrodatabank using the time zone of > "LMT - > 6:44:48" as stated on the web page. With this time zone 4:38AM is > about 10 minutes before sunrise. And if you look at the (western) > birth chart provided on their site, you'll see the Sun positioned at > just 3 degrees below the horizon (lagna). > > The 6:03 time is the time of sunrise if one uses the time zone of > 8:00 East of GMT which most software seems to use by default. > > If one were to use the same exact birth data information as provided > from astrodatabank to draw up the Vedic chart, then one would get a > lagna that is in the middle of Gemini, about 3 degrees from the > position of the Sun (same difference as in the Western birth chart > provided on astrodatabank -- the differenence in degree between lagna > and Sun is the same no matter what zodiac is used). > > As stated previously, to get the Taurus lagna the birth time needs to > be about 1.5 hours before sunrise or more. > > If one uses the time provided on astrodatabank (4:38AM), but uses the > 8:00 East of GMT timezone instead of the timezone provided on > astrodatabank, then this corresponds to approx 1.5 hours before > sunrise and a lagna somewhere in the tranistion between Gemini and > Taurus depending on the Lat/Long used. > > Take it easy, > Sean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Dear Wendy, ///I'm hoping that I'm not just digging my heels in to prove Taurus lagna...this can happen!/// ///I have rectified many charts over the last 20 yrs and I'm in no doubt that his lagna is Taurus./// I had no idea that you had rectified this chart and the birth data given was correct to your rectification. I agree with the following: ///There has to come a time when speculation gives way to fact. .....We have to remember the basic tenets of Jyotish i.e.'The significations of the planet and the affairs of the house it occupies will manifest during its dasa'..... .....the (natal) position of dasa/bhukti lords is the first consideration...always!/// Along with your email earlier this week to Jiger, in response to his mails, on the aspects or relationships between Saturn and Jupiter: ///The problem with these (generic) rules? is that the individual lordship of the planets may be overlooked entirely///. Also, Neena's recent response: ///We were trying to demonstrate how Jupiter's aspect on Saturn helps modify the natural maleficence of the planet/// Since I came late into this discussion, there was a question of correct time and Neena's question of correct Time Zone. I pursued the research to identify both as accurately as possible. Since the Dali Lama was going to be the topic of discussion, this was something I also wanted to do for accuracy before placing the birth data in the database However, your rectification of the chart stands on its own. Therefore, I will reframe from uploading the Dalai Lama's Chart to the database and allow you to insert there what you feel is the correct time of birth, time zone and proper lagna. I feel very strongly on this, because it is you that has taught over and over again on this forum (and you have personally reprimanded me) that unless we have the correct birth data or time, then to try and analysis a chart or any part of its planets positions, is not only fool hearty, but destructive and a waste of time. Rectification is another matter and it too requires a lot of time and energy to sort out. My contribution, only, these last few days was to try to find the correct Time Zone and birth time. I will leave it here. My plate is rather full and I feel I have nothing more to contribute to my research on the Dalai Lama's birth data. As Always, Uttara p.s. Do have a look at the Link Table in the Database where you will find several articles that identify Daylight Savings Time and Time Zone issues around the world. jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sean, Uttara and All, > > There can be no doubt whatsoever of the position of Rahu (in 8th). > There has to come a time when speculation gives way to fact. The > invading Chinese army as the root cause of his exile is fact - bhukti > lord Rahu in 8th with his dispositor aspecting 10th is fact. No > amount of favouring Gemini will change that fact... > > We have to remember the basic tenets of Jyotish i.e. 'The > significations of the planet and the affairs of the house it occupies > will manifest during its dasa'. There can be no doubt that Tibet was > under attack (8th house Rahu). Transits are (extremely) important but > the (natal) position of dasa/bhukti lords is the first > consideration...always! > > Sean Wrote: > //Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land > indicating > more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not > so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of > Jupiter this time.// > > The nodes neither give nor receive aspects... Besides Rahu bhukti in > 7th DOES NOT tell us of conflict/war/battle front...these are the > significations of 8th house - occupied by bhukti lord Rahu. This is > what was manifesting during Rahu bhukti (in Moon dasa)... Moon > occupying 4th house. > > I have rectified many charts over the last 20 yrs and I'm in no doubt > that his lagna is Taurus. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "Sean Patrick Kelly" <toosean > <jyotish-vidya> > Monday, March 20, 2006 8:13 AM > Re: Dalai Lama - Gemini? > > > Namaste > > Dear Uttara, > > Don't get me wrong - I am not 100% convinced that it is Gemini, even > though it makes sense to me. Obviously, I did want to explore the > possibility of it being Gemini by pointing out some factors that > support it. > > However, I think there is one mystery that I have solved regarding > astrodatabank saying "LMR calculates sunrise at that date and > location as 4:38 AM" and others getting the sunrise as 6:03 AM. > > <http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm> > > This difference is due the astrodatabank using the time zone of > "LMT - > 6:44:48" as stated on the web page. With this time zone 4:38AM is > about 10 minutes before sunrise. And if you look at the (western) > birth chart provided on their site, you'll see the Sun positioned at > just 3 degrees below the horizon (lagna). > > The 6:03 time is the time of sunrise if one uses the time zone of > 8:00 East of GMT which most software seems to use by default. > > If one were to use the same exact birth data information as provided > from astrodatabank to draw up the Vedic chart, then one would get a > lagna that is in the middle of Gemini, about 3 degrees from the > position of the Sun (same difference as in the Western birth chart > provided on astrodatabank -- the differenence in degree between lagna > and Sun is the same no matter what zodiac is used). > > As stated previously, to get the Taurus lagna the birth time needs to > be about 1.5 hours before sunrise or more. > > If one uses the time provided on astrodatabank (4:38AM), but uses the > 8:00 East of GMT timezone instead of the timezone provided on > astrodatabank, then this corresponds to approx 1.5 hours before > sunrise and a lagna somewhere in the tranistion between Gemini and > Taurus depending on the Lat/Long used. > > Take it easy, > Sean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Dear Uttara, //I had no idea that you had rectified this chart and the birth data given was correct to your rectification.// No! No! you misunderstand! The first step in rectification is determining the lagna - verifying the events, in order to adjust the time, follows (a lengthy process which I've hardly begun). Sometimes the lagna can fall into your lap by chance, as was the case in this instance with Astrodatabank and PL's conflicting data revealing Taurus lagna. It came by accidentally! none-the-less I am satisfied this lagna is correct. //However, your rectification of the chart stands on its own. Therefore, I will reframe from uploading the Dalai Lama's Chart to the database and allow you to insert there what you feel is the correct time of birth, time zone and proper lagna.// I have not yet come to a correct time - only concerned with lagna at this stage :-) //My contribution, only, these last few days was to try to find the correct Time Zone and birth time.// Your efforts, as always, have been greatly appreciated...what would we do without your research skills :-) In previous mail you said: //p.s. anyone ready for a trip to Tibet? I feel like I have been there for months in all the research!!!!// Wouldn't that be nice! Well, maybe not Tibet, but a group of us getting together to visit the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala sounds heavenly :-)) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "muttaraphalguni" <muttaraphalguni <jyotish-vidya> Monday, March 20, 2006 8:12 PM Re: Dalai Lama - Gemini? Dear Wendy, ///I'm hoping that I'm not just digging my heels in to prove Taurus lagna...this can happen!/// ///I have rectified many charts over the last 20 yrs and I'm in no doubt that his lagna is Taurus./// I agree with the following: ///There has to come a time when speculation gives way to fact. .....We have to remember the basic tenets of Jyotish i.e.'The significations of the planet and the affairs of the house it occupies will manifest during its dasa'..... .....the (natal) position of dasa/bhukti lords is the first consideration...always!/// Along with your email earlier this week to Jiger, in response to his mails, on the aspects or relationships between Saturn and Jupiter: ///The problem with these (generic) rules? is that the individual lordship of the planets may be overlooked entirely///. Also, Neena's recent response: ///We were trying to demonstrate how Jupiter's aspect on Saturn helps modify the natural maleficence of the planet/// Since I came late into this discussion, there was a question of correct time and Neena's question of correct Time Zone. I pursued the research to identify both as accurately as possible. Since the Dali Lama was going to be the topic of discussion, this was something I also wanted to do for accuracy before placing the birth data in the database However, your rectification of the chart stands on its own. Therefore, I will reframe from uploading the Dalai Lama's Chart to the database and allow you to insert there what you feel is the correct time of birth, time zone and proper lagna. I feel very strongly on this, because it is you that has taught over and over again on this forum (and you have personally reprimanded me) that unless we have the correct birth data or time, then to try and analysis a chart or any part of its planets positions, is not only fool hearty, but destructive and a waste of time. Rectification is another matter and it too requires a lot of time and energy to sort out. My contribution, only, these last few days was to try to find the correct Time Zone and birth time. I will leave it here. My plate is rather full and I feel I have nothing more to contribute to my research on the Dalai Lama's birth data. As Always, Uttara p.s. Do have a look at the Link Table in the Database where you will find several articles that identify Daylight Savings Time and Time Zone issues around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Namaste Dear Ron and all, Please see reply below: jyotish-vidya, Ron Day <ron wrote: > > I have arrived late in this discussion but I will put my 2 cents in here > for a Taurus ascendent. I looked at this chart some time ago and thought > that 21+ deg Taurus seemed to fit .This gives a navamsha ascendent of Cancer. > > If you refer to Jain's book on planetary degrees ---- > 22 deg Taurus > > Degree of Directorship > > Symbol---- Hand holding a torch amidst the darkness > > "Denotes a light bearer whose mission is to guide others and to uplift > them. No matter how dark the way, his presence inspires brightness. There > is no weakness in this native, who knows just what he is in this world to > do and who does it." That certainly does fit the Dalai Lama. I don't have any experience with this book so that is about all I can say. > > > >Regarding the particulars of the Taurus lagna chart, it seems to me that > Moon and Venus in the 4th, aspected by the 9th/10th lord Saturn would > indicate mostly good if not great results in 4th house matters.< > > > Sean, > > The Mo is lord of 3H(12 to 4) and is placed close to the equal cusp of 4H > .This can disrupt home life. The concept of 3h as 12 to 4 can also be seen then to contribute to an explanation of the event occuring during Moon dasa as Moon is positioned in the 3h for Gemini lagna. Moon's position near a cusp can be seen to hinder 4th house significations regardless of lagna, due to Moon being a natural karaka for 4th house matters. My feeling is that while Mo as 3rd lord and in close to the cusp "can" disrupt home life, Mars as 6th/11th lord w/o benefic aspect or association "will" disrupt home life. Again, looking at the nature of the disruptions of his home life they seem to be more colored by Mars than by Moon or Venus. >The Mo is in sambanda with 10th lord Sa > showing his exile is a major part in his rise to prominence. That is a very good point. But it is also put forward that a rise to fame can be seen from the 9th house. Notice for Gemini lagna the Ve-Sa yoga is both between 5th & 9th lords and between 8th & 12th. Occuring in the 3rd/9th house axis. Also keep in mind his leadership position was given to him due to being recognized as the incarnation of the Dalai Lama (past karma) which works with 10th lord in 5th, not due to being exiled. And certainly once he assumed his role it has be fraught with difficulty, and he assumed full leadership responsibility prematuraly when his land was invaded (aspect of Mars on 10th from 4th). Take it easy, Sean > > > Regards > Ron > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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