Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 To All, I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai Lama and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the database and I am came across the following information. I thought all would be interested. It should further make some very interesting discussions and interpretations. The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the province of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham provinces of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or also known as Tsinghai. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. Amdo is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic tribes and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many Tibetan nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and earth. http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' 30E. Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. The information is listed in the article under Trivia. file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight Savings Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: 6 July 1935 (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the Tibetan plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of GMT Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 reference: Jhora 7.02 So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one wants to use. I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the Lagna outcome. As Always, Uttara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 --- dear Uttara, thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant links. You are really good at this. Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is required. How is your mother doing? Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. God bless you, As ever, Neena In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > To All, > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai Lama > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the database > and I am came across the following information. I thought all would > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > discussions and interpretations. > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the province > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham provinces > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or also > known as Tsinghai. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. Amdo > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic tribes > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many Tibetan > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and earth. > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' 30E. > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight Savings > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > 6 July 1935 > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the Tibetan > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of > GMT > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > wants to use. > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the Lagna > outcome. > > As Always, > > Uttara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 - Dear Uttara, I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the time zone should be 8.00. But this does not sort out the problems . On calculating the chart for this location the asc comes to the last degree of Taurus i.e 29*54' which could easily go to Gemini 0* 19' with even a slight difference in long. minutes. If you have the time just check it on Jhora 7.02. I am using the same software. Thanks Neena P.S. We could study this horoscope from the Moon , perhaps? Less chance of a mistake. -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako wrote: > > --- > > dear Uttara, > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant links. > You are really good at this. > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is required. > > How is your mother doing? > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > God bless you, > > As ever, > Neena > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > Lama > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > database > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > would > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > province > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > provinces > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > also > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > Amdo > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > tribes > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > Tibetan > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > earth. > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > 30E. > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > Savings > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > Tibetan > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of > > GMT > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > > wants to use. > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > Lagna > > outcome. > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Dear Neena, Thanks for asking about my mother. She is coming along slowly but steadily. Friday afternoon, 3/17 she was given the news that the tumor was not Cancerous. Which is great news and relieves my mother from exercising her decision to not go forward with any treatment if it was. She still has a long way to go with the real threat of complications and or relapses from the very difficult surgery. But, I believe one could say in all enthusiasm, Thumbs up!! Uttara neenako <neenako wrote: --- dear Uttara, thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant links. You are really good at this. Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is required. How is your mother doing? Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. God bless you, As ever, Neena In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > To All, > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai Lama > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the database > and I am came across the following information. I thought all would > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > discussions and interpretations. > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the province > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham provinces > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or also > known as Tsinghai. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. Amdo > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic tribes > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many Tibetan > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and earth. > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' 30E. > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight Savings > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > 6 July 1935 > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the Tibetan > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of > GMT > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > wants to use. > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the Lagna > outcome. > > As Always, > > Uttara > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 -- Dear Uttara, That's great news!! God is great! Neena - In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Dear Neena, > > Thanks for asking about my mother. She is coming along slowly but steadily. > Friday afternoon, 3/17 she was given the news that the tumor was not Cancerous. Which is great news and relieves my mother from exercising her decision to not go forward with any treatment if it was. She still has a long way to go with the real threat of complications and or relapses from the very difficult surgery. > > But, I believe one could say in all enthusiasm, Thumbs up!! > > Uttara > > neenako <neenako wrote: > --- > > dear Uttara, > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant links. > You are really good at this. > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is required. > > How is your mother doing? > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > God bless you, > > As ever, > Neena > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > Lama > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > database > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > would > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > province > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > provinces > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > also > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > Amdo > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > tribes > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > Tibetan > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > earth. > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > 30E. > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > Savings > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > Tibetan > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of > > GMT > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > > wants to use. > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > Lagna > > outcome. > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > jyotish-vidya > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Travel > Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 - neenako jyotish-vidya Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:38 AM Re: Dalai Lama's Lagna? -- Dear Uttara, That's great news!! God is great! Neena - In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Dear Neena, > > Thanks for asking about my mother. She is coming along slowly but steadily. > Friday afternoon, 3/17 she was given the news that the tumor was not Cancerous. Which is great news and relieves my mother from exercising her decision to not go forward with any treatment if it was. She still has a long way to go with the real threat of complications and or relapses from the very difficult surgery. > > But, I believe one could say in all enthusiasm, Thumbs up!! > > Uttara > > neenako <neenako wrote: > --- > > dear Uttara, > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant links. > You are really good at this. > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is required. > > How is your mother doing? > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > God bless you, > > As ever, > Neena > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > Lama > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > database > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > would > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > province > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > provinces > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > also > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > Amdo > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > tribes > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > Tibetan > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > earth. > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > 30E. > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > Savings > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > Tibetan > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of > > GMT > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > > wants to use. > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > Lagna > > outcome. > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > jyotish-vidya > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Travel > Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Dear Uttara, Glad to hear.God bless you and your mother.Let's thank Almighty to have seen the criticalness is passed off andnot much to worry about. krishnan Sateesh Batas <makaras wrote: - neenako jyotish-vidya Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:38 AM Re: Dalai Lama's Lagna? -- Dear Uttara, That's great news!! God is great! Neena - In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Dear Neena, > > Thanks for asking about my mother. She is coming along slowly but steadily. > Friday afternoon, 3/17 she was given the news that the tumor was not Cancerous. Which is great news and relieves my mother from exercising her decision to not go forward with any treatment if it was. She still has a long way to go with the real threat of complications and or relapses from the very difficult surgery. > > But, I believe one could say in all enthusiasm, Thumbs up!! > > Uttara > > neenako <neenako wrote: > --- > > dear Uttara, > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant links. > You are really good at this. > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is required. > > How is your mother doing? > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > God bless you, > > As ever, > Neena > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > Lama > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > database > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > would > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > province > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > provinces > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > also > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > Amdo > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > tribes > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > Tibetan > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > earth. > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > 30E. > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > Savings > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > Tibetan > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of > > GMT > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > > wants to use. > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > Lagna > > outcome. > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > jyotish-vidya > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Travel > Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 neenako <neenako wrote: ///I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the time zone should be 8.00./// Dear Neena, The farming village of Taktser which is part of the Amdo Province is located in the North East section of modern day Qinghai, also known as Tsinghai. Qinghai is located in the North West part of the Tibetan Plateau, which is located in the northwest-central part of the People's Repulic of China. The capital of Qinghai is Xining. The closest city to Takstser is the Ganjia Grasslands in the Shopone valley of Gansu. References: www.chinatoday.com http://www.chinatoday.com.en/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm www.answers.com http://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm www.tibet.com http://www.tibet.com/dasaguide.html www.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Lama www.astrodatabank.com http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm www.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai Wikipedia.org also has two very good and very detailed articles about "Time in China" and world "Time Zone" www.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm The article "Time in China" talks extensively about the Time Zones of China before the Chinese Civil War in 1949. Before the war, China had 5 time zones. The article also includes a map of China showing how and where the Times Zones were in effect. All of Tibet was in the 6:00 East of GMT Sinkiong-Tibet Time Zone. After the 1949 war, China established itself with one Time Zone, 8:00 East of GMT and does not observe Daylight Savings Time (Beijing Time or Chinese Standard Time). Although, some local provinces do on their own because with out the time change, the Sun does not usually rise until 9am. However, legally and recognised on Birth Certificates (if time is kept in the local provinces) all time, since 1949, is written in the 8:00 East of GMT Time Zone. It was my mistake to write that when the Dalai Lama was moved in 1937 to the palaces at the age of two, that the Holy City of Lhasa observed 8.00 East of GMT Time Zone. They did not. They were in the 6:00 East of GMT Time Zone like his birth village of Taktser in Ganjia. Ganjia should not be confused with Gangu which is the mountainous range above the grasslands of Ganjia. It will give you an incorrect Longtitude. and Latitude which is also a mistake I made the other evening. Fallingrain.com gives maps and exact locations of Qinghai, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html Xining, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/6/Xining.html Ganjia, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/15/Ganjia.html After further research and double checking this evening, I now have what I beleive to be the corect Long and Lat's of the areas mentioned above for members further study. Dalai Lama 6 July 1935 (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT 102 E 30'00" 35 N 24'00" (Ganjia, China) Lagna: 17 Ge 38' 58.27" (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT Lagna: 0 Ge 20' 56.76" *********************************** (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT 101 E 46'00" 36 N 37'00' (Xining Shi, China) Lagna: 17 Ge 44' 01.79" (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT Lagna: 0 Ge 27' 13.63" *********************************** (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT 106 E 04' 30" 25 N 48' 30" (Qinghai, China) Lagna: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT Lagna: 28 TA 13' 37.34" *********************************** (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT 105 E 19' 40" 34 N 44' 15" (Gangu, China) Lagna: 19 Ge 42' 08.49" (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT Lagna: 2 Ge 35' 59.62" *********************************** Reference: Jhora 7.02 As Always, Uttara neenako <neenako wrote: - Dear Uttara, I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the time zone should be 8.00. But this does not sort out the problems . On calculating the chart for this location the asc comes to the last degree of Taurus i.e 29*54' which could easily go to Gemini 0* 19' with even a slight difference in long. minutes. If you have the time just check it on Jhora 7.02. I am using the same software. Thanks Neena P.S. We could study this horoscope from the Moon , perhaps? Less chance of a mistake. -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako wrote: > > --- > > dear Uttara, > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant links. > You are really good at this. > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is required. > > How is your mother doing? > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > God bless you, > > As ever, > Neena > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > Lama > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as to > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > database > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > would > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > province > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > provinces > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > also > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > Amdo > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > tribes > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > Tibetan > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > earth. > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > 30E. > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time zones. > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > Savings > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital city > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > Tibetan > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East of > > GMT > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, it > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > > wants to use. > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > Lagna > > outcome. > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 - Uttara, Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given time of birth. So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not reliable. It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. Regards, Neena -- In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > neenako <neenako wrote: > > ///I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the time zone should be 8.00./// > > Dear Neena, > > The farming village of Taktser which is part of the Amdo Province is located in the North East section of modern day Qinghai, also known as Tsinghai. > > Qinghai is located in the North West part of the Tibetan Plateau, which is located in the northwest-central part of the People's Repulic of China. > > The capital of Qinghai is Xining. The closest city to Takstser is the Ganjia Grasslands in the Shopone valley of Gansu. > > References: > > www.chinatoday.com http://www.chinatoday.com.en/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > www.answers.com > http://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > www.tibet.com > http://www.tibet.com/dasaguide.html > > www.wikipedia.org > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Lama > > www.astrodatabank.com > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > www.wikipedia.org > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > Wikipedia.org also has two very good and very detailed articles about "Time in China" and world "Time Zone" > > www.wikipedia.org > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > The article "Time in China" talks extensively about the Time Zones of China before the Chinese Civil War in 1949. Before the war, China had 5 time zones. The article also includes a map of China showing how and where the Times Zones were in effect. All of Tibet was in the 6:00 East of GMT Sinkiong-Tibet Time Zone. > > After the 1949 war, China established itself with one Time Zone, 8:00 East of GMT and does not observe Daylight Savings Time (Beijing Time or Chinese Standard Time). Although, some local provinces do on their own because with out the time change, the Sun does not usually rise until 9am. However, legally and recognised on Birth Certificates (if time is kept in the local provinces) all time, since 1949, is written in the 8:00 East of GMT Time Zone. > > It was my mistake to write that when the Dalai Lama was moved in 1937 to the palaces at the age of two, that the Holy City of Lhasa observed 8.00 East of GMT Time Zone. They did not. They were in the 6:00 East of GMT Time Zone like his birth village of Taktser in Ganjia. > > Ganjia should not be confused with Gangu which is the mountainous range above the grasslands of Ganjia. It will give you an incorrect Longtitude. and Latitude which is also a mistake I made the other evening. > > Fallingrain.com gives maps and exact locations of > Qinghai, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > Xining, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/6/Xining.html > > Ganjia, China > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/15/Ganjia.html > > > After further research and double checking this evening, I now have what I beleive to be the corect Long and Lat's of the areas mentioned above for members further study. > > Dalai Lama > > 6 July 1935 > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 102 E 30'00" 35 N 24'00" (Ganjia, China) > Lagna: 17 Ge 38' 58.27" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 0 Ge 20' 56.76" > > *********************************** > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 101 E 46'00" 36 N 37'00' (Xining Shi, China) > Lagna: 17 Ge 44' 01.79" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 0 Ge 27' 13.63" > > *********************************** > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 106 E 04' 30" 25 N 48' 30" (Qinghai, China) > Lagna: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 28 TA 13' 37.34" > > *********************************** > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 105 E 19' 40" 34 N 44' 15" (Gangu, China) > Lagna: 19 Ge 42' 08.49" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 2 Ge 35' 59.62" > > *********************************** > > Reference: Jhora 7.02 > > As Always, > > Uttara > > > > > > neenako <neenako wrote: > - > Dear Uttara, > > I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > time zone should be 8.00. > > But this does not sort out the problems . On calculating the chart > for this location the asc comes to the last degree of Taurus i.e > 29*54' which could easily go to Gemini 0* 19' with even a slight > difference in long. minutes. > > If you have the time just check it on Jhora 7.02. > I am using the same software. > > Thanks > > Neena > > P.S. We could study this horoscope from the Moon , perhaps? Less > chance of a mistake. > -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako@> wrote: > > > > --- > > > > dear Uttara, > > > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant > links. > > You are really good at this. > > > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is > required. > > > > How is your mother doing? > > > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > > > God bless you, > > > > As ever, > > Neena > > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > > > To All, > > > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > > Lama > > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as > to > > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > > database > > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > > would > > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > > province > > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > > provinces > > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > > also > > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > > Amdo > > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > > tribes > > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > > Tibetan > > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > > earth. > > > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > > 30E. > > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time > zones. > > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > > Savings > > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > > > 6 July 1935 > > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital > city > > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > > Tibetan > > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East > of > > > GMT > > > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, > it > > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > > > wants to use. > > > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > > Lagna > > > outcome. > > > > > > As Always, > > > > > > Uttara > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > jyotish-vidya > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 -- P.S. Sining is 15kms away from Taktser and not 15 miles. - In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako wrote: > > - > Uttara, > > Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. > They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. > > Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's > mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. > > Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. > > there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given > time of birth. > So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not > reliable. > > It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. > > Regards, > Neena > -- In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni@> > wrote: > > > > neenako <neenako@> wrote: > > > > ///I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found > the > > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > time zone should be 8.00./// > > > > Dear Neena, > > > > The farming village of Taktser which is part of the Amdo > Province is located in the North East section of modern day Qinghai, > also known as Tsinghai. > > > > Qinghai is located in the North West part of the Tibetan > Plateau, which is located in the northwest-central part of the > People's Repulic of China. > > > > The capital of Qinghai is Xining. The closest city to Takstser > is the Ganjia Grasslands in the Shopone valley of Gansu. > > > > References: > > > > www.chinatoday.com > http://www.chinatoday.com.en/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > www.answers.com > > http://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > www.tibet.com > > http://www.tibet.com/dasaguide.html > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Lama > > > > www.astrodatabank.com > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > Wikipedia.org also has two very good and very detailed articles > about "Time in China" and world "Time Zone" > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > The article "Time in China" talks extensively about the Time > Zones of China before the Chinese Civil War in 1949. Before the > war, China had 5 time zones. The article also includes a map of > China showing how and where the Times Zones were in effect. All of > Tibet was in the 6:00 East of GMT Sinkiong-Tibet Time Zone. > > > > After the 1949 war, China established itself with one Time Zone, > 8:00 East of GMT and does not observe Daylight Savings Time (Beijing > Time or Chinese Standard Time). Although, some local provinces do > on their own because with out the time change, the Sun does not > usually rise until 9am. However, legally and recognised on Birth > Certificates (if time is kept in the local provinces) all time, > since 1949, is written in the 8:00 East of GMT Time Zone. > > > > It was my mistake to write that when the Dalai Lama was moved in > 1937 to the palaces at the age of two, that the Holy City of Lhasa > observed 8.00 East of GMT Time Zone. They did not. They were in > the 6:00 East of GMT Time Zone like his birth village of Taktser in > Ganjia. > > > > Ganjia should not be confused with Gangu which is the > mountainous range above the grasslands of Ganjia. It will give you > an incorrect Longtitude. and Latitude which is also a mistake I made > the other evening. > > > > Fallingrain.com gives maps and exact locations of > > Qinghai, China > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > Xining, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/6/Xining.html > > > > Ganjia, China > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/15/Ganjia.html > > > > > > After further research and double checking this evening, I now > have what I beleive to be the corect Long and Lat's of the areas > mentioned above for members further study. > > > > Dalai Lama > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 102 E 30'00" 35 N 24'00" (Ganjia, China) > > Lagna: 17 Ge 38' 58.27" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 0 Ge 20' 56.76" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 101 E 46'00" 36 N 37'00' (Xining Shi, China) > > Lagna: 17 Ge 44' 01.79" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 0 Ge 27' 13.63" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" 25 N 48' 30" (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 28 TA 13' 37.34" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 105 E 19' 40" 34 N 44' 15" (Gangu, China) > > Lagna: 19 Ge 42' 08.49" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 2 Ge 35' 59.62" > > > > *********************************** > > > > Reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > neenako <neenako@> wrote: > > - > > Dear Uttara, > > > > I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the > > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > > time zone should be 8.00. > > > > But this does not sort out the problems . On calculating the chart > > for this location the asc comes to the last degree of Taurus i.e > > 29*54' which could easily go to Gemini 0* 19' with even a slight > > difference in long. minutes. > > > > If you have the time just check it on Jhora 7.02. > > I am using the same software. > > > > Thanks > > > > Neena > > > > P.S. We could study this horoscope from the Moon , perhaps? Less > > chance of a mistake. > > -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako@> wrote: > > > > > > --- > > > > > > dear Uttara, > > > > > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant > > links. > > > You are really good at this. > > > > > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > > > > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is > > required. > > > > > > How is your mother doing? > > > > > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > > > > > God bless you, > > > > > > As ever, > > > Neena > > > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > > > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > To All, > > > > > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > > > Lama > > > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt > as > > to > > > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > > > database > > > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > > > would > > > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > > > province > > > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > > > provinces > > > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > > > also > > > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > > > Amdo > > > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > > > tribes > > > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > > > Tibetan > > > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During > the > > > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > > > earth. > > > > > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > > > 30E. > > > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time > > zones. > > > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > > > Savings > > > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always > eight > > > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe > DST". > > > > > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > > > > > 6 July 1935 > > > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital > > city > > > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > > > Tibetan > > > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 > East > > of > > > > GMT > > > > > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus > Lagna, > > it > > > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone > one > > > > wants to use. > > > > > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say > about > > > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for > interpretation. > > > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > > > Lagna > > > > outcome. > > > > > > > > As Always, > > > > > > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart > Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > > > > jyotish-vidya > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our > deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our > light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our > own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do > the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence > automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne > Williamson > > > > > > > > > > Mail > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Holy Cow Neena!, I just went through my extensive notes and printed copies of all the references and aarticles I researched Thursday evening and tonight - and I can't for the life of me find anywhere the Name Sining on Astrodatabank or elsewhere. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exits or is not legitimate. If one were to use Sining, China, then the Lat and Long would be by Jhora 7.02 101 E 46' 00" 36 N 37" 00' (Sining, China) This would give Sining at (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT, a lagna of 17' Ge 44' 01.79 If one were to use the (04:38) 8:00 E of GMT, the lagna would be 0 Ge 27' 13.63" It very closely falls into place with some of the other chart Lagnas I did to show the differences. I get Moon: 16 Leo 10' 19.55" on all my charts of course, so there is no threat of the Moon changing that day. Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to check sunrises for 1935. Yes, I have used the (04:38) birth time as the closest one named by his mother on all my charts. Too, it is the time of birth that has been established that the majority work from. I don't have a problem studying the chart from the Moon, but others might. Jyotish-Vidya as a strong divide on this topic. Maybe we should wait until Monday when Wendy is back from her weekend and get her assessment. And, also get input from others as to their opinions too. In the meantime, do get a chance to read all the references and articles. I am sure you will really enjoy them. There is a lot of fascinating information including info on the 13 th Dalai Lama. As Always, Uttara p.s. can you give me the reference to the map showing Sining,China. I have so many maps here and not one shows the town or area. At least they don't name it. I have a lot of other tiny little names on the maps, but not Sining. Thanks I do strongly favor the 6:44 Time Zone after all the detailed documentation for the year. 8:00 E of GMT did not exist then. So why bother with it. neenako <neenako wrote: - Uttara, Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given time of birth. So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not reliable. It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. Regards, Neena -- In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > neenako <neenako wrote: > > ///I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the time zone should be 8.00./// > > Dear Neena, > > The farming village of Taktser which is part of the Amdo Province is located in the North East section of modern day Qinghai, also known as Tsinghai. > > Qinghai is located in the North West part of the Tibetan Plateau, which is located in the northwest-central part of the People's Repulic of China. > > The capital of Qinghai is Xining. The closest city to Takstser is the Ganjia Grasslands in the Shopone valley of Gansu. > > References: > > www.chinatoday.com http://www.chinatoday.com.en/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > www.answers.com > http://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > www.tibet.com > http://www.tibet.com/dasaguide.html > > www.wikipedia.org > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Lama > > www.astrodatabank.com > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > www.wikipedia.org > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > Wikipedia.org also has two very good and very detailed articles about "Time in China" and world "Time Zone" > > www.wikipedia.org > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > The article "Time in China" talks extensively about the Time Zones of China before the Chinese Civil War in 1949. Before the war, China had 5 time zones. The article also includes a map of China showing how and where the Times Zones were in effect. All of Tibet was in the 6:00 East of GMT Sinkiong-Tibet Time Zone. > > After the 1949 war, China established itself with one Time Zone, 8:00 East of GMT and does not observe Daylight Savings Time (Beijing Time or Chinese Standard Time). Although, some local provinces do on their own because with out the time change, the Sun does not usually rise until 9am. However, legally and recognised on Birth Certificates (if time is kept in the local provinces) all time, since 1949, is written in the 8:00 East of GMT Time Zone. > > It was my mistake to write that when the Dalai Lama was moved in 1937 to the palaces at the age of two, that the Holy City of Lhasa observed 8.00 East of GMT Time Zone. They did not. They were in the 6:00 East of GMT Time Zone like his birth village of Taktser in Ganjia. > > Ganjia should not be confused with Gangu which is the mountainous range above the grasslands of Ganjia. It will give you an incorrect Longtitude. and Latitude which is also a mistake I made the other evening. > > Fallingrain.com gives maps and exact locations of > Qinghai, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > Xining, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/6/Xining.html > > Ganjia, China > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/15/Ganjia.html > > > After further research and double checking this evening, I now have what I beleive to be the corect Long and Lat's of the areas mentioned above for members further study. > > Dalai Lama > > 6 July 1935 > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 102 E 30'00" 35 N 24'00" (Ganjia, China) > Lagna: 17 Ge 38' 58.27" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 0 Ge 20' 56.76" > > *********************************** > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 101 E 46'00" 36 N 37'00' (Xining Shi, China) > Lagna: 17 Ge 44' 01.79" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 0 Ge 27' 13.63" > > *********************************** > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 106 E 04' 30" 25 N 48' 30" (Qinghai, China) > Lagna: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 28 TA 13' 37.34" > > *********************************** > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > 105 E 19' 40" 34 N 44' 15" (Gangu, China) > Lagna: 19 Ge 42' 08.49" > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > Lagna: 2 Ge 35' 59.62" > > *********************************** > > Reference: Jhora 7.02 > > As Always, > > Uttara > > > > > > neenako <neenako wrote: > - > Dear Uttara, > > I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > time zone should be 8.00. > > But this does not sort out the problems . On calculating the chart > for this location the asc comes to the last degree of Taurus i.e > 29*54' which could easily go to Gemini 0* 19' with even a slight > difference in long. minutes. > > If you have the time just check it on Jhora 7.02. > I am using the same software. > > Thanks > > Neena > > P.S. We could study this horoscope from the Moon , perhaps? Less > chance of a mistake. > -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako@> wrote: > > > > --- > > > > dear Uttara, > > > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant > links. > > You are really good at this. > > > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is > required. > > > > How is your mother doing? > > > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > > > God bless you, > > > > As ever, > > Neena > > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > > > To All, > > > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > > Lama > > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt as > to > > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > > database > > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > > would > > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > > province > > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > > provinces > > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > > also > > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > > Amdo > > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > > tribes > > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > > Tibetan > > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During the > > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > > earth. > > > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > > 30E. > > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time > zones. > > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > > Savings > > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always eight > > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe DST". > > > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > > > 6 July 1935 > > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital > city > > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > > Tibetan > > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 East > of > > > GMT > > > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus Lagna, > it > > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone one > > > wants to use. > > > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say about > > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for interpretation. > > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > > Lagna > > > outcome. > > > > > > As Always, > > > > > > Uttara > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > jyotish-vidya > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. 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Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 -- Dear Uttara, If nothing else my knowledge of geography is definitely improving. Have never collected so many facts about Tibet and China as now. Now , I am just a little too tired. This is not leading anywhere. Need to take a break !! From the topic. All the best, Neena - In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Holy Cow Neena!, I just went through my extensive notes and printed copies of all the references and aarticles I researched Thursday evening and tonight - and I can't for the life of me find anywhere the Name Sining on Astrodatabank or elsewhere. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exits or is not legitimate. If one were to use Sining, China, then the Lat and Long would be by Jhora 7.02 > > 101 E 46' 00" 36 N 37" 00' (Sining, China) > This would give Sining at (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT, a lagna of 17' Ge 44' 01.79 > If one were to use the (04:38) 8:00 E of GMT, the lagna would be 0 Ge 27' 13.63" > > It very closely falls into place with some of the other chart Lagnas I did to show the differences. > > I get Moon: 16 Leo 10' 19.55" on all my charts of course, so there is no threat of the Moon changing that day. > > Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to check sunrises for 1935. > > Yes, I have used the (04:38) birth time as the closest one named by his mother on all my charts. Too, it is the time of birth that has been established that the majority work from. > > I don't have a problem studying the chart from the Moon, but others might. Jyotish-Vidya as a strong divide on this topic. Maybe we should wait until Monday when Wendy is back from her weekend and get her assessment. And, also get input from others as to their opinions too. > > In the meantime, do get a chance to read all the references and articles. I am sure you will really enjoy them. There is a lot of fascinating information including info on the 13 th Dalai Lama. > > As Always, > > Uttara > > p.s. can you give me the reference to the map showing Sining,China. I have so many maps here and not one shows the town or area. At least they don't name it. > I have a lot of other tiny little names on the maps, but not Sining. Thanks > > I do strongly favor the 6:44 Time Zone after all the detailed documentation for the year. 8:00 E of GMT did not exist then. So why bother with it. > > > neenako <neenako wrote: > - > Uttara, > > Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. > They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. > > Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's > mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. > > Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. > > there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given > time of birth. > So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not > reliable. > > It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. > > Regards, > Neena > -- In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni@> > wrote: > > > > neenako <neenako@> wrote: > > > > ///I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found > the > > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > time zone should be 8.00./// > > > > Dear Neena, > > > > The farming village of Taktser which is part of the Amdo > Province is located in the North East section of modern day Qinghai, > also known as Tsinghai. > > > > Qinghai is located in the North West part of the Tibetan > Plateau, which is located in the northwest-central part of the > People's Repulic of China. > > > > The capital of Qinghai is Xining. The closest city to Takstser > is the Ganjia Grasslands in the Shopone valley of Gansu. > > > > References: > > > > www.chinatoday.com > http://www.chinatoday.com.en/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > www.answers.com > > http://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > www.tibet.com > > http://www.tibet.com/dasaguide.html > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Lama > > > > www.astrodatabank.com > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > Wikipedia.org also has two very good and very detailed articles > about "Time in China" and world "Time Zone" > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > The article "Time in China" talks extensively about the Time > Zones of China before the Chinese Civil War in 1949. Before the > war, China had 5 time zones. The article also includes a map of > China showing how and where the Times Zones were in effect. All of > Tibet was in the 6:00 East of GMT Sinkiong-Tibet Time Zone. > > > > After the 1949 war, China established itself with one Time Zone, > 8:00 East of GMT and does not observe Daylight Savings Time (Beijing > Time or Chinese Standard Time). Although, some local provinces do > on their own because with out the time change, the Sun does not > usually rise until 9am. However, legally and recognised on Birth > Certificates (if time is kept in the local provinces) all time, > since 1949, is written in the 8:00 East of GMT Time Zone. > > > > It was my mistake to write that when the Dalai Lama was moved in > 1937 to the palaces at the age of two, that the Holy City of Lhasa > observed 8.00 East of GMT Time Zone. They did not. They were in > the 6:00 East of GMT Time Zone like his birth village of Taktser in > Ganjia. > > > > Ganjia should not be confused with Gangu which is the > mountainous range above the grasslands of Ganjia. It will give you > an incorrect Longtitude. and Latitude which is also a mistake I made > the other evening. > > > > Fallingrain.com gives maps and exact locations of > > Qinghai, China > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > Xining, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/6/Xining.html > > > > Ganjia, China > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/15/Ganjia.html > > > > > > After further research and double checking this evening, I now > have what I beleive to be the corect Long and Lat's of the areas > mentioned above for members further study. > > > > Dalai Lama > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 102 E 30'00" 35 N 24'00" (Ganjia, China) > > Lagna: 17 Ge 38' 58.27" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 0 Ge 20' 56.76" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 101 E 46'00" 36 N 37'00' (Xining Shi, China) > > Lagna: 17 Ge 44' 01.79" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 0 Ge 27' 13.63" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" 25 N 48' 30" (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 28 TA 13' 37.34" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 105 E 19' 40" 34 N 44' 15" (Gangu, China) > > Lagna: 19 Ge 42' 08.49" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 2 Ge 35' 59.62" > > > > *********************************** > > > > Reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > neenako <neenako@> wrote: > > - > > Dear Uttara, > > > > I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the > > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > > time zone should be 8.00. > > > > But this does not sort out the problems . On calculating the chart > > for this location the asc comes to the last degree of Taurus i.e > > 29*54' which could easily go to Gemini 0* 19' with even a slight > > difference in long. minutes. > > > > If you have the time just check it on Jhora 7.02. > > I am using the same software. > > > > Thanks > > > > Neena > > > > P.S. We could study this horoscope from the Moon , perhaps? Less > > chance of a mistake. > > -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako@> wrote: > > > > > > --- > > > > > > dear Uttara, > > > > > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant > > links. > > > You are really good at this. > > > > > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > > > > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is > > required. > > > > > > How is your mother doing? > > > > > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > > > > > God bless you, > > > > > > As ever, > > > Neena > > > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > > > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > To All, > > > > > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > > > Lama > > > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt > as > > to > > > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > > > database > > > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > > > would > > > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > > > province > > > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > > > provinces > > > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > > > also > > > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > > > Amdo > > > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > > > tribes > > > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > > > Tibetan > > > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During > the > > > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > > > earth. > > > > > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > > > 30E. > > > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time > > zones. > > > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > > > Savings > > > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always > eight > > > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe > DST". > > > > > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > > > > > 6 July 1935 > > > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital > > city > > > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > > > Tibetan > > > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 > East > > of > > > > GMT > > > > > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus > Lagna, > > it > > > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone > one > > > > wants to use. > > > > > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say > about > > > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for > interpretation. > > > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > > > Lagna > > > > outcome. > > > > > > > > As Always, > > > > > > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart > Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > > > > jyotish-vidya > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our > deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our > light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our > own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do > the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence > automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne > Williamson > > > > > > > > > > Mail > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > jyotish-vidya > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Dear Neena, Yes, you're correct! Sunrise, according to (both) PL and the U.S. Naval Observatory is given as 06:03 approx. I enquired from Astodatabank how they had arrived at their time but no response as yet. His mother is quoted simply as saying he "was born early in the morning, before sunrise."...how long before sunrise is anyone's guess? It's logical that the time (04.38) could be described as early in the morning, before sunrise. It would have been clearer of course if she'd said (just) before sunrise, but this is not what was written. I'm hoping that I'm not just digging my heels in to prove Taurus lagna...this can happen! But none-the-less there are strong reasons why I favour this chart. I decided to have a look at the dasas/transits at the time he fled Tibet. He left Lhasa with an entourage of twenty men, including six ministers, on Mar 17 1959. He travelled across the Himalayas at night to avoid the Chinese guards and crossed the Indian border 15 days later. Before looking at the transits for that day let's consider the dasa periods and what was manifesting in his life at that time. The dasa (time of 04:38) was MO-RA-SA-VE. Dasa lord Moon in 4th house(motherland) conjunct lagnesh Venus - Bhukti lord Rahu in 8th house of conflict - Pratyantar lord Saturn in 10th house of status/authority/power etc.. We know that the Chinese army had invaded Tibet - note, bhukti lord Rahu in 8th whilst his dispositor (Jupiter) aspects Saturn in 10th and 4th lord Sun in 2nd. There was a fierce Chinese crackdown (at the time of his escape) following a Tibetan uprising earlier in the month. I'm sure we must agree that the circumstances at the time were truly reflected in the dasa periods. TRANSITS: Dasa lord Moon was conjunct 12th lord Mars in lagna whilst lagna lord Venus (sookshmantar lord?) was transiting 12th house of foreign journey (note exchange between 1st/12th lords). Bhukti lord Rahu was transiting 8th from 10th(loss of political status) whilst 10th lord Saturn was transiting 8th.... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "neenako" <neenako <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:06 PM Re: Dalai Lama's Lagna? - Uttara, Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given time of birth. So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not reliable. It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. Regards, Neena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Namaste I was looking at this whole issue again today. It seems to be very tricky as from what I can tell there are good arguments for both lagnas. If the Dalai Lama was born at sunrise or up to approx 1.5 hours before sunrise then he would be a Gemini Lagna, if he was born approx 1.5 hrs or more before Sunrise then he would be a Taurus Lagna. This is using what is known currently as Ganjia, China, nearest town to the Dalai Lama's home village as the place of birth (thanks to Uttara for the research). Here are some relevelent dates to use for rectification (since I am in the role of advocate for Gemini lagna, the chart references below are all for Gemini lagna, though Wendy's interpretation of the transits and dasa for Taurus lagna makes a lot of sense too): A lot of this is from htttp://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7286/dalaibio.html 02/22/1940 : enthrollment ceremony as the Dalai Lama Venus-Rahu period. Transit Rahu, bukti lord, is in 4th house, indicating sudden changes in residence/home. Transit rahu is aspected by transit Venus & Jupiter (no aspect of Saturn or Mars) indicating changes are for the better. Transit Venus, dasa lord, is in the 10th house of status. Transit Jupiter, 10th lord, is in the 10th house conjuct transit dasa lord Venus. Transit Saturn & Mars are in the 11th house of gains. While transit Sun & Mercury are conjuct in the 9th house of fortune. For this date the transit seem to favor the Gemini Lagna because of transit of 9th & 10th lords. (With Taurus lagna 9th/10th lord Saturn would have been transiting the 12th house of loss). 11/17/1950 : he "was called upon to assume full political power (head of the State and Government) after some 80,000 Peoples Liberation Army soldiers invaded Tibet". In 1954 he went to Beijing to attemp to work out peace agreement Chinese, did not ever get worked out due to Bejing's "ruthless" policy in Eastern Tibet. Venus-Ketu dasa The circumstances on this date are much much worse than when the Dalai Lama was enthroned. Transit dasa lord Venus is in 6th house of difficulty/obstactles (Mars' house), same with transit 4th/1st lord Mercury and Sun. Rahu is transiting 10th house indicating sudden changes regarding status. He had to assume full political leadership because his country was under great duress -- being invaded by the Chinese. Notice transit 8th/9th lord Saturn & Transit bukti lord Ketu are conjuct natal Mars in the 4th house. Transit Mars is afflicting the lagna, 10th house, and transit Rahu. 8th/9th Saturn is activating both 4th & 10th houses. (BTW, I still really think Mars in 4th makes alot sense given the adjectives most often used to describe the occupation of the Chinese [Mars] in his home country [4th house] like "brutal" and "ruthless".) 03/10/1959 : the capital of Tibet, Lhasa, exploded with the largest demonstration in Tibetan history, calling on China to leave Tibet and reaffirming Tibet's independence. The Tibetan National Uprising was brutally crushed shortly after by the Chinese army. 3/17/1959 His Holiness fled Tibet (per Wendy's info) The dasa and major transits are the same for both of these dates, I'll just go over the 03/17/1959 date of Dalai Lama's fleeing. As Wendy posted this is during Mo-Ra. Mar is transiting 12th house conjuct transiting dasa lord Moon. Transit Mars is also aspecting natal position of dasa lord Moon (same no matter what lagna). Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land indicating more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of Jupiter this time. Transit 10th lord Jupiter was in the 6th house of difficultes, afflicted by aspect of transit Mars from 12th. Trasit 8th/9th lord Saturn in 7th also afflicted by transit of Mars from 12th. Transit 8th/9th lord Saturn aspected natal Mars/4th house & lagna. Another thing I want to bring up in support of Gemini lagna is the nature of the Dalai Lamas Rahu period. For Gemini lagna Rahu is in 7th house. Keeping in mind the spritual/renunciate nature of the chart I think it is fair to rule out the husband/wife/lover significations of the 7th, focusing on the "partner, partnership, medium-term desires, business partner, co-operation, trade, commerce, travel, journeys, law courts, litigation, living abroad, relationship with all others, the world at large as seen by the native". Rahu in 7th does compell him toward forming partnerships & relationships with others despite him being a renunciate/monk. During the Dalai Lama's Rahu dasa 1974-1992 he traveled extensively forming partnerships & co-operating with famous and foreign leaders all over the world, including meeting with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican in 1980, 1982, 1986, 1988 and 1990. "In autumn of 1991, he visited the Baltic States at the invitation of Lithuanian President Vytautas Landsbergis of Lithuania and became the first foreign leader to address the Lithuanian Parliament" "In 1981, His Holiness talked with Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Robert Runcie, and with other leaders of the Anglican Church in London. He also met with leaders of the Roman Catholic and Jewish communities and spoke at an interfaith service held in his honor by the World Congress of Faiths." When Rahu is well-placed and well-aspected it can be seen to give huge rises in fame/renown. I think this fits better with Rahu in a kendra (7th) receiving aspect of Sun and Mercury, rather then then in the 8th house with the same aspect. Anyway, it is nice to turn our thoughts to the Dalai Lama and the people of Tibet. It is interesting to note this topic started around the anniversary of the invasion of Tibet and Dalai Lama's fleeing to India. Take it easy, Sean jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Neena, > > Yes, you're correct! Sunrise, according to (both) PL and the U.S. > Naval Observatory is given as 06:03 approx. I enquired from > Astodatabank how they had arrived at their time but no response as > yet. > > His mother is quoted simply as saying he "was born early in the > morning, before sunrise."...how long before sunrise is anyone's > guess? It's logical that the time (04.38) could be described as early > in the morning, before sunrise. It would have been clearer of course > if she'd said (just) before sunrise, but this is not what was > written. > > I'm hoping that I'm not just digging my heels in to prove Taurus > lagna...this can happen! But none-the-less there are strong reasons > why I favour this chart. I decided to have a look at the > dasas/transits at the time he fled Tibet. He left Lhasa with an > entourage of twenty men, including six ministers, on Mar 17 1959. He > travelled across the Himalayas at night to avoid the Chinese guards > and crossed the Indian border 15 days later. > > Before looking at the transits for that day let's consider the dasa > periods and what was manifesting in his life at that time. The dasa > (time of 04:38) was MO-RA-SA-VE. Dasa lord Moon in 4th > house(motherland) conjunct lagnesh Venus - Bhukti lord Rahu in 8th > house of conflict - Pratyantar lord Saturn in 10th house of > status/authority/power etc.. > > We know that the Chinese army had invaded Tibet - note, bhukti lord > Rahu in 8th whilst his dispositor (Jupiter) aspects Saturn in 10th > and 4th lord Sun in 2nd. There was a fierce Chinese crackdown (at the > time of his escape) following a Tibetan uprising earlier in the > month. I'm sure we must agree that the circumstances at the time were > truly reflected in the dasa periods. > > TRANSITS: > Dasa lord Moon was conjunct 12th lord Mars in lagna whilst lagna lord > Venus (sookshmantar lord?) was transiting 12th house of foreign > journey (note exchange between 1st/12th lords). Bhukti lord Rahu was > transiting 8th from 10th(loss of political status) whilst 10th lord > Saturn was transiting 8th.... > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "neenako" <neenako > <jyotish-vidya> > Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:06 PM > Re: Dalai Lama's Lagna? > > - > Uttara, > > Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. > They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. > > Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's > mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. > > Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. > > there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given > time of birth. > So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not > reliable. > > It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. > > Regards, > Neena > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Dear Neena and All, Yes, indeed, researching does take a lot of time and energy; recording and cross referencing. After hours of purposeful studying, one does need to take a break. Just to highlight your concern about Shining, China, I wanted to direct you to the area where I laid out a lot of different Latitudes and longitudes to use for the Dalai Lama birth data. I found that Shining as you reported is the same Latitude and Longitude as Xining Shi, China which is the Capital of Qinghai. 0:438:00 (6:44 East of GMT) 101 E. 46' 00" 36 N 37' 00" Lagna: 17 Ge 44' 01.79" Ardra/Ra Nakshatra ************************************************************* to hone in on a closer Latitude and Longitude I found the Ganjia grasslands which are part of the Gansu region where the Dalai Lama was born. The Gangu mountainous are at a much higher elevation above Ganjia (or sometimes referred to as Ganja) and give a completely different Long. and Lat. I believe one would find the website of www.chinatoday.com to be very informative and give you a settling of where the Dalai Lama was born along with it article supporting what www.astrodatabank.com reports as to his families living conditions and heritage. http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama,htm The subject of being born "just before sunrise" does present a precise difficulty. However, I have taken what is widely used as his birth time because according to www.astrodatabank and others, 04.38 was the recorded time of Sunrise by the (LMR calculations) that they report. I believe Wendy is waiting for an answer to where they got this reference. In the meantime, The largest province in China is the Xinjiang Province, which is located in the upper western part of China and did in 1949 share with a very small western part of Tibet - the same Time Zone. However, neither fell into the 6:00 time Zone of the Sinkiang-Tibet Time Zone area at the time. Today, however, it is known that local parts of the Xinjiang Province are used by its people on their own time, even though they are officially and legally in the 8:00 time Zone of China (or what some refer to as Beijing Time), because the sun does not rise in some of their region until 9am and often is still light at midnight in the summer months. http://www.travelchianguide.com/cityguides/xinjiang This information might give a clue to the raising time of Ganjia, China when the Dalai Lama was born. Even though his area of birth is quite a distance East of the Xinjiang province it does point out that Sun rising is a questionable factor in this part of China. The Time Zone for the western areas around the Kunlan mountain ranges in the far west of China (Xinjiang Province) was on GMT +5.5 (Kunlan Time Zone) in 1949. vs. the GMT +6 (Sinkiang-Tibet Times Zone). Beijing Time or 8:00 East of GMT time zone is used today throughout the whole of China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China Therefore, to my rationale, I propose the following data as the closest to the Dalai Lama's birth data 04:38:00 (6:44 East of GMT) 102 E 30' 00" 35 N 24' 00" (Ganjia, China). Lagna: 17 Ge 38' 58.27" Ardra/Ra Nakshatra *********************************************************** Hope the further information helps, As Always, Uttara neenako <neenako wrote: -- Dear Uttara, If nothing else my knowledge of geography is definitely improving. Have never collected so many facts about Tibet and China as now. Now , I am just a little too tired. This is not leading anywhere. Need to take a break !! From the topic. All the best, Neena - In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Holy Cow Neena!, I just went through my extensive notes and printed copies of all the references and aarticles I researched Thursday evening and tonight - and I can't for the life of me find anywhere the Name Sining on Astrodatabank or elsewhere. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exits or is not legitimate. If one were to use Sining, China, then the Lat and Long would be by Jhora 7.02 > > 101 E 46' 00" 36 N 37" 00' (Sining, China) > This would give Sining at (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT, a lagna of 17' Ge 44' 01.79 > If one were to use the (04:38) 8:00 E of GMT, the lagna would be 0 Ge 27' 13.63" > > It very closely falls into place with some of the other chart Lagnas I did to show the differences. > > I get Moon: 16 Leo 10' 19.55" on all my charts of course, so there is no threat of the Moon changing that day. > > Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to check sunrises for 1935. > > Yes, I have used the (04:38) birth time as the closest one named by his mother on all my charts. Too, it is the time of birth that has been established that the majority work from. > > I don't have a problem studying the chart from the Moon, but others might. Jyotish-Vidya as a strong divide on this topic. Maybe we should wait until Monday when Wendy is back from her weekend and get her assessment. And, also get input from others as to their opinions too. > > In the meantime, do get a chance to read all the references and articles. I am sure you will really enjoy them. There is a lot of fascinating information including info on the 13 th Dalai Lama. > > As Always, > > Uttara > > p.s. can you give me the reference to the map showing Sining,China. I have so many maps here and not one shows the town or area. At least they don't name it. > I have a lot of other tiny little names on the maps, but not Sining. Thanks > > I do strongly favor the 6:44 Time Zone after all the detailed documentation for the year. 8:00 E of GMT did not exist then. So why bother with it. > > > neenako <neenako wrote: > - > Uttara, > > Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. > They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. > > Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's > mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. > > Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. > > there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given > time of birth. > So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not > reliable. > > It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. > > Regards, > Neena > -- In jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni@> > wrote: > > > > neenako <neenako@> wrote: > > > > ///I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found > the > > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > time zone should be 8.00./// > > > > Dear Neena, > > > > The farming village of Taktser which is part of the Amdo > Province is located in the North East section of modern day Qinghai, > also known as Tsinghai. > > > > Qinghai is located in the North West part of the Tibetan > Plateau, which is located in the northwest-central part of the > People's Repulic of China. > > > > The capital of Qinghai is Xining. The closest city to Takstser > is the Ganjia Grasslands in the Shopone valley of Gansu. > > > > References: > > > > www.chinatoday.com > http://www.chinatoday.com.en/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > www.answers.com > > http://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > www.tibet.com > > http://www.tibet.com/dasaguide.html > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Lama > > > > www.astrodatabank.com > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > Wikipedia.org also has two very good and very detailed articles > about "Time in China" and world "Time Zone" > > > > www.wikipedia.org > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > The article "Time in China" talks extensively about the Time > Zones of China before the Chinese Civil War in 1949. Before the > war, China had 5 time zones. The article also includes a map of > China showing how and where the Times Zones were in effect. All of > Tibet was in the 6:00 East of GMT Sinkiong-Tibet Time Zone. > > > > After the 1949 war, China established itself with one Time Zone, > 8:00 East of GMT and does not observe Daylight Savings Time (Beijing > Time or Chinese Standard Time). Although, some local provinces do > on their own because with out the time change, the Sun does not > usually rise until 9am. However, legally and recognised on Birth > Certificates (if time is kept in the local provinces) all time, > since 1949, is written in the 8:00 East of GMT Time Zone. > > > > It was my mistake to write that when the Dalai Lama was moved in > 1937 to the palaces at the age of two, that the Holy City of Lhasa > observed 8.00 East of GMT Time Zone. They did not. They were in > the 6:00 East of GMT Time Zone like his birth village of Taktser in > Ganjia. > > > > Ganjia should not be confused with Gangu which is the > mountainous range above the grasslands of Ganjia. It will give you > an incorrect Longtitude. and Latitude which is also a mistake I made > the other evening. > > > > Fallingrain.com gives maps and exact locations of > > Qinghai, China > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > Xining, China http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/6/Xining.html > > > > Ganjia, China > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/15/Ganjia.html > > > > > > After further research and double checking this evening, I now > have what I beleive to be the corect Long and Lat's of the areas > mentioned above for members further study. > > > > Dalai Lama > > > > 6 July 1935 > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 102 E 30'00" 35 N 24'00" (Ganjia, China) > > Lagna: 17 Ge 38' 58.27" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 0 Ge 20' 56.76" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 101 E 46'00" 36 N 37'00' (Xining Shi, China) > > Lagna: 17 Ge 44' 01.79" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 0 Ge 27' 13.63" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 106 E 04' 30" 25 N 48' 30" (Qinghai, China) > > Lagna: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 28 TA 13' 37.34" > > > > *********************************** > > > > (04:38) 6:44 East of GMT > > 105 E 19' 40" 34 N 44' 15" (Gangu, China) > > Lagna: 19 Ge 42' 08.49" > > > > (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT > > Lagna: 2 Ge 35' 59.62" > > > > *********************************** > > > > Reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > As Always, > > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > neenako <neenako@> wrote: > > - > > Dear Uttara, > > > > I have gone through various maps of Tibet and finally found the > > location of Sining, the town nearest to Taktser. > > The long./Lat. of the place that we are taking is correct and the > > time zone should be 8.00. > > > > But this does not sort out the problems . On calculating the chart > > for this location the asc comes to the last degree of Taurus i.e > > 29*54' which could easily go to Gemini 0* 19' with even a slight > > difference in long. minutes. > > > > If you have the time just check it on Jhora 7.02. > > I am using the same software. > > > > Thanks > > > > Neena > > > > P.S. We could study this horoscope from the Moon , perhaps? Less > > chance of a mistake. > > -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako@> wrote: > > > > > > --- > > > > > > dear Uttara, > > > > > > thanks a lot for researching this and finding all the relevant > > links. > > > You are really good at this. > > > > > > Now we need to decide between the Gemini and Taurus lagna. > > > > > > Maybe a little more study of the two ascendants is what is > > required. > > > > > > How is your mother doing? > > > > > > Hope and pray she is on the road to recovery. > > > > > > God bless you, > > > > > > As ever, > > > Neena > > > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > > > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > To All, > > > > > > > > I have had a chance this evening after returning late from the > > > > hospital to catch up on the interesting emails about the Dalai > > > Lama > > > > and the debate and discussion about his Lagna. > > > > > > > > Somewhere in my notes, I believe someone expressed the doubt > as > > to > > > > whether to believe or rely on his birth time zone of +8:00. > > > > > > > > I did some research so I could upload his birth data to the > > > database > > > > and I am came across the following information. I thought all > > > would > > > > be interested. It should further make some very interesting > > > > discussions and interpretations. > > > > > > > > The Dalai Lama was born in a farming village Taktser in the > > > province > > > > of Amdo, located in the Northeast part of the Tibetan Plateau. > > > > > > > > http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm > > > > > > > > http://www.tibet/com/dasaguide.html > > > > > > > > In 1959 when Chinese invaders took over the Amdo and Kham > > > provinces > > > > of Tibet they became what is known in modern day as Qinghai or > > > also > > > > known as Tsinghai. > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai > > > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI\~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\BLYJDUQV.htm > > > > > > > > "...Qinghai's eastern area, often referred to as central Amdo. > > > Amdo > > > > is the uncommonly known name for the Tibetan area of eastern > > > > Quinghai and southern Gansu.... largely inhabited by nomadic > > > tribes > > > > and farmers of the Tibetan ethnic group..." > > > > > > > > It is the "beautiful rolling Ganja Grasslands, home of many > > > Tibetan > > > > nomads" who farm the land with their sheep and yak. During > the > > > > winter months, they build and live in houses made of clay and > > > earth. > > > > > > > > http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2004/e200404/p48.htm > > > > > > > > Qinghai, China's - Latitude: 25* 48' 30N. Longitude: 106* 4' > > > 30E. > > > > Its Altitude is 4009. It's modern day Time Zone is UTC+8 > > > > > > > > http://www.fallingrain.com/world/CH/18/Qinghai.html > > > > > > > > On Wikipedia.com in their article titled "Time Zone" > > > > they state that China today, has only one time zone (UTC+8) > > > > However, before the Chinese War in 1949 China had five time > > zones. > > > > The information is listed in the article under Trivia. > > > > > > > > file://C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\9GBYE2XW.htm > > > > > > > > Infoplease.com also states in their article tilted "Daylight > > > Savings > > > > Time" that "China, which spans five time zones, is always > eight > > > > hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and it does not observe > DST". > > > > > > > > http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html > > > > > > > > If one were to take the Dalai Lama's birth data as: > > > > > > > > 6 July 1935 > > > > (4:38) its time zone at the time was 6.44 East of GMT > > > > 106 E 04' 30" and 25 N 48' 30' (Qinghai, China) > > > > Lagna would be: 15 Ge 44' 48.00" > > > > > > > > In 1937 when he was moved to the Royal Palaces in the capital > > city > > > > of Lhasa - Tibet's Holy City in the Southeast section of the > > > Tibetan > > > > plateau, the time zone for that area at that time was 8:00 > East > > of > > > > GMT > > > > > > > > Today, if one were to erect a birth chart of the Dalai Lama, > > > > computers will give the current time zone as 8:00 East of GMT. > > > > Giving his Lagna to be: 28 Ta 13' 37.34 > > > > > > > > reference: Jhora 7.02 > > > > > > > > So, inclusion, all are correct with a Gemini or a Taurus > Lagna, > > it > > > > just depends on how one wants to apply it and what Time Zone > one > > > > wants to use. > > > > > > > > I will be most interested to hear what members have to say > about > > > > this subject and which Lagna is settled on for > interpretation. > > > > There is no doubt the difference in Time Zones do affect the > > > Lagna > > > > outcome. > > > > > > > > As Always, > > > > > > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart > Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > > > > jyotish-vidya > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our > deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our > light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our > own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do > the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence > automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne > Williamson > > > > > > > > > > Mail > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. > > > jyotish-vidya > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson > > > > > Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Dear Wendy, Yes, your favor for a Taurus rising is correct if one goes by the folowing: (04:38) 8:00 East of GMT 106 E 04' 30" 25 N 48' 30" (Qinghai, China) Lagna: 28 TA 13' 37.34" Uttara Wendy Vasicek <jyotish wrote: Dear Neena, Yes, you're correct! Sunrise, according to (both) PL and the U.S. Naval Observatory is given as 06:03 approx. I enquired from Astodatabank how they had arrived at their time but no response as yet. His mother is quoted simply as saying he "was born early in the morning, before sunrise."...how long before sunrise is anyone's guess? It's logical that the time (04.38) could be described as early in the morning, before sunrise. It would have been clearer of course if she'd said (just) before sunrise, but this is not what was written. I'm hoping that I'm not just digging my heels in to prove Taurus lagna...this can happen! But none-the-less there are strong reasons why I favour this chart. I decided to have a look at the dasas/transits at the time he fled Tibet. He left Lhasa with an entourage of twenty men, including six ministers, on Mar 17 1959. He travelled across the Himalayas at night to avoid the Chinese guards and crossed the Indian border 15 days later. Before looking at the transits for that day let's consider the dasa periods and what was manifesting in his life at that time. The dasa (time of 04:38) was MO-RA-SA-VE. Dasa lord Moon in 4th house(motherland) conjunct lagnesh Venus - Bhukti lord Rahu in 8th house of conflict - Pratyantar lord Saturn in 10th house of status/authority/power etc.. We know that the Chinese army had invaded Tibet - note, bhukti lord Rahu in 8th whilst his dispositor (Jupiter) aspects Saturn in 10th and 4th lord Sun in 2nd. There was a fierce Chinese crackdown (at the time of his escape) following a Tibetan uprising earlier in the month. I'm sure we must agree that the circumstances at the time were truly reflected in the dasa periods. TRANSITS: Dasa lord Moon was conjunct 12th lord Mars in lagna whilst lagna lord Venus (sookshmantar lord?) was transiting 12th house of foreign journey (note exchange between 1st/12th lords). Bhukti lord Rahu was transiting 8th from 10th(loss of political status) whilst 10th lord Saturn was transiting 8th.... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "neenako" <neenako <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:06 PM Re: Dalai Lama's Lagna? - Uttara, Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given time of birth. So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not reliable. It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. Regards, Neena Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Dear Sean, I have to concur! Thanks so much for the additional websites to research and added analysis. Although, I realize it is disappointing for many not to have a Taurus rising. The Gemini rising seems to be the correct one from research deduction. As Always, Uttara p.s. anyone ready for a trip to Tibet? I feel like I have been there for months in all the research!!!! A few months ago, I answered a survery as to where I most wanted to visit in my life time and who was it I wanted to meet. I put down Deepak Chopra (sp)and the Dalai Lama - do you think this is my calling?!!!! Sean Patrick Kelly <toosean wrote: Namaste I was looking at this whole issue again today. It seems to be very tricky as from what I can tell there are good arguments for both lagnas. If the Dalai Lama was born at sunrise or up to approx 1.5 hours before sunrise then he would be a Gemini Lagna, if he was born approx 1.5 hrs or more before Sunrise then he would be a Taurus Lagna. This is using what is known currently as Ganjia, China, nearest town to the Dalai Lama's home village as the place of birth (thanks to Uttara for the research). Here are some relevelent dates to use for rectification (since I am in the role of advocate for Gemini lagna, the chart references below are all for Gemini lagna, though Wendy's interpretation of the transits and dasa for Taurus lagna makes a lot of sense too): A lot of this is from htttp://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7286/dalaibio.html 02/22/1940 : enthrollment ceremony as the Dalai Lama Venus-Rahu period. Transit Rahu, bukti lord, is in 4th house, indicating sudden changes in residence/home. Transit rahu is aspected by transit Venus & Jupiter (no aspect of Saturn or Mars) indicating changes are for the better. Transit Venus, dasa lord, is in the 10th house of status. Transit Jupiter, 10th lord, is in the 10th house conjuct transit dasa lord Venus. Transit Saturn & Mars are in the 11th house of gains. While transit Sun & Mercury are conjuct in the 9th house of fortune. For this date the transit seem to favor the Gemini Lagna because of transit of 9th & 10th lords. (With Taurus lagna 9th/10th lord Saturn would have been transiting the 12th house of loss). 11/17/1950 : he "was called upon to assume full political power (head of the State and Government) after some 80,000 Peoples Liberation Army soldiers invaded Tibet". In 1954 he went to Beijing to attemp to work out peace agreement Chinese, did not ever get worked out due to Bejing's "ruthless" policy in Eastern Tibet. Venus-Ketu dasa The circumstances on this date are much much worse than when the Dalai Lama was enthroned. Transit dasa lord Venus is in 6th house of difficulty/obstactles (Mars' house), same with transit 4th/1st lord Mercury and Sun. Rahu is transiting 10th house indicating sudden changes regarding status. He had to assume full political leadership because his country was under great duress -- being invaded by the Chinese. Notice transit 8th/9th lord Saturn & Transit bukti lord Ketu are conjuct natal Mars in the 4th house. Transit Mars is afflicting the lagna, 10th house, and transit Rahu. 8th/9th Saturn is activating both 4th & 10th houses. (BTW, I still really think Mars in 4th makes alot sense given the adjectives most often used to describe the occupation of the Chinese [Mars] in his home country [4th house] like "brutal" and "ruthless".) 03/10/1959 : the capital of Tibet, Lhasa, exploded with the largest demonstration in Tibetan history, calling on China to leave Tibet and reaffirming Tibet's independence. The Tibetan National Uprising was brutally crushed shortly after by the Chinese army. 3/17/1959 His Holiness fled Tibet (per Wendy's info) The dasa and major transits are the same for both of these dates, I'll just go over the 03/17/1959 date of Dalai Lama's fleeing. As Wendy posted this is during Mo-Ra. Mar is transiting 12th house conjuct transiting dasa lord Moon. Transit Mars is also aspecting natal position of dasa lord Moon (same no matter what lagna). Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land indicating more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of Jupiter this time. Transit 10th lord Jupiter was in the 6th house of difficultes, afflicted by aspect of transit Mars from 12th. Trasit 8th/9th lord Saturn in 7th also afflicted by transit of Mars from 12th. Transit 8th/9th lord Saturn aspected natal Mars/4th house & lagna. Another thing I want to bring up in support of Gemini lagna is the nature of the Dalai Lamas Rahu period. For Gemini lagna Rahu is in 7th house. Keeping in mind the spritual/renunciate nature of the chart I think it is fair to rule out the husband/wife/lover significations of the 7th, focusing on the "partner, partnership, medium-term desires, business partner, co-operation, trade, commerce, travel, journeys, law courts, litigation, living abroad, relationship with all others, the world at large as seen by the native". Rahu in 7th does compell him toward forming partnerships & relationships with others despite him being a renunciate/monk. During the Dalai Lama's Rahu dasa 1974-1992 he traveled extensively forming partnerships & co-operating with famous and foreign leaders all over the world, including meeting with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican in 1980, 1982, 1986, 1988 and 1990. "In autumn of 1991, he visited the Baltic States at the invitation of Lithuanian President Vytautas Landsbergis of Lithuania and became the first foreign leader to address the Lithuanian Parliament" "In 1981, His Holiness talked with Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Robert Runcie, and with other leaders of the Anglican Church in London. He also met with leaders of the Roman Catholic and Jewish communities and spoke at an interfaith service held in his honor by the World Congress of Faiths." When Rahu is well-placed and well-aspected it can be seen to give huge rises in fame/renown. I think this fits better with Rahu in a kendra (7th) receiving aspect of Sun and Mercury, rather then then in the 8th house with the same aspect. Anyway, it is nice to turn our thoughts to the Dalai Lama and the people of Tibet. It is interesting to note this topic started around the anniversary of the invasion of Tibet and Dalai Lama's fleeing to India. Take it easy, Sean jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Neena, > > Yes, you're correct! Sunrise, according to (both) PL and the U.S. > Naval Observatory is given as 06:03 approx. I enquired from > Astodatabank how they had arrived at their time but no response as > yet. > > His mother is quoted simply as saying he "was born early in the > morning, before sunrise."...how long before sunrise is anyone's > guess? It's logical that the time (04.38) could be described as early > in the morning, before sunrise. It would have been clearer of course > if she'd said (just) before sunrise, but this is not what was > written. > > I'm hoping that I'm not just digging my heels in to prove Taurus > lagna...this can happen! But none-the-less there are strong reasons > why I favour this chart. I decided to have a look at the > dasas/transits at the time he fled Tibet. He left Lhasa with an > entourage of twenty men, including six ministers, on Mar 17 1959. He > travelled across the Himalayas at night to avoid the Chinese guards > and crossed the Indian border 15 days later. > > Before looking at the transits for that day let's consider the dasa > periods and what was manifesting in his life at that time. The dasa > (time of 04:38) was MO-RA-SA-VE. Dasa lord Moon in 4th > house(motherland) conjunct lagnesh Venus - Bhukti lord Rahu in 8th > house of conflict - Pratyantar lord Saturn in 10th house of > status/authority/power etc.. > > We know that the Chinese army had invaded Tibet - note, bhukti lord > Rahu in 8th whilst his dispositor (Jupiter) aspects Saturn in 10th > and 4th lord Sun in 2nd. There was a fierce Chinese crackdown (at the > time of his escape) following a Tibetan uprising earlier in the > month. I'm sure we must agree that the circumstances at the time were > truly reflected in the dasa periods. > > TRANSITS: > Dasa lord Moon was conjunct 12th lord Mars in lagna whilst lagna lord > Venus (sookshmantar lord?) was transiting 12th house of foreign > journey (note exchange between 1st/12th lords). Bhukti lord Rahu was > transiting 8th from 10th(loss of political status) whilst 10th lord > Saturn was transiting 8th.... > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "neenako" <neenako > <jyotish-vidya> > Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:06 PM > Re: Dalai Lama's Lagna? > > - > Uttara, > > Sining is mentioned as the town nearest to Taktser, on Astrodata.com. > They say it is 15 miles away from the village of Taktser. > > Also, the time of birth is mentioned as 04-38 according to DL's > mother who said that he was born close to sunrise. > > Now sunrise was at 6-06-24 on 5th July 1935. > > there is a great deal of difference between the sunrise and given > time of birth. > So to my way of thinking even the time of birth is suspect and not > reliable. > > It is better to study this horoscope from the Moon sign. > > Regards, > Neena > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Dear Sean, Twice now I've written a lengthy response to each of your points and each time we've had a power failure before I could send...hard work lost! That followed a morning where I had been sent from one pathology clinic to another trying to get some blood tests done - one particular test requires that the sample be centrifuged immediately (and then frozen, I think) and not all clinics have that equipment. I eventually gave up and came home - will have it done another time. It's been one of those days! I'll have another attempt at answering your points later this evening when it (hopefully) cools down a bit - stifling heat here at the moment (and this is autumn?). Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Sean Patrick Kelly" <toosean <jyotish-vidya> Monday, March 20, 2006 3:08 AM Re: Dalai Lama's Lagna? Namaste I was looking at this whole issue again today. It seems to be very tricky as from what I can tell there are good arguments for both lagnas. If the Dalai Lama was born at sunrise or up to approx 1.5 hours before sunrise then he would be a Gemini Lagna, if he was born approx 1.5 hrs or more before Sunrise then he would be a Taurus Lagna. This is using what is known currently as Ganjia, China, nearest town to the Dalai Lama's home village as the place of birth (thanks to Uttara for the research). Here are some relevelent dates to use for rectification (since I am in the role of advocate for Gemini lagna, the chart references below are all for Gemini lagna, though Wendy's interpretation of the transits and dasa for Taurus lagna makes a lot of sense too): A lot of this is from htttp://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7286/dalaibio.html 02/22/1940 : enthrollment ceremony as the Dalai Lama Venus-Rahu period. Transit Rahu, bukti lord, is in 4th house, indicating sudden changes in residence/home. Transit rahu is aspected by transit Venus & Jupiter (no aspect of Saturn or Mars) indicating changes are for the better. Transit Venus, dasa lord, is in the 10th house of status. Transit Jupiter, 10th lord, is in the 10th house conjuct transit dasa lord Venus. Transit Saturn & Mars are in the 11th house of gains. While transit Sun & Mercury are conjuct in the 9th house of fortune. For this date the transit seem to favor the Gemini Lagna because of transit of 9th & 10th lords. (With Taurus lagna 9th/10th lord Saturn would have been transiting the 12th house of loss). 11/17/1950 : he "was called upon to assume full political power (head of the State and Government) after some 80,000 Peoples Liberation Army soldiers invaded Tibet". In 1954 he went to Beijing to attemp to work out peace agreement Chinese, did not ever get worked out due to Bejing's "ruthless" policy in Eastern Tibet. Venus-Ketu dasa The circumstances on this date are much much worse than when the Dalai Lama was enthroned. Transit dasa lord Venus is in 6th house of difficulty/obstactles (Mars' house), same with transit 4th/1st lord Mercury and Sun. Rahu is transiting 10th house indicating sudden changes regarding status. He had to assume full political leadership because his country was under great duress -- being invaded by the Chinese. Notice transit 8th/9th lord Saturn & Transit bukti lord Ketu are conjuct natal Mars in the 4th house. Transit Mars is afflicting the lagna, 10th house, and transit Rahu. 8th/9th Saturn is activating both 4th & 10th houses. (BTW, I still really think Mars in 4th makes alot sense given the adjectives most often used to describe the occupation of the Chinese [Mars] in his home country [4th house] like "brutal" and "ruthless".) 03/10/1959 : the capital of Tibet, Lhasa, exploded with the largest demonstration in Tibetan history, calling on China to leave Tibet and reaffirming Tibet's independence. The Tibetan National Uprising was brutally crushed shortly after by the Chinese army. 3/17/1959 His Holiness fled Tibet (per Wendy's info) The dasa and major transits are the same for both of these dates, I'll just go over the 03/17/1959 date of Dalai Lama's fleeing. As Wendy posted this is during Mo-Ra. Mar is transiting 12th house conjuct transiting dasa lord Moon. Transit Mars is also aspecting natal position of dasa lord Moon (same no matter what lagna). Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land indicating more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of Jupiter this time. Transit 10th lord Jupiter was in the 6th house of difficultes, afflicted by aspect of transit Mars from 12th. Trasit 8th/9th lord Saturn in 7th also afflicted by transit of Mars from 12th. Transit 8th/9th lord Saturn aspected natal Mars/4th house & lagna. Another thing I want to bring up in support of Gemini lagna is the nature of the Dalai Lamas Rahu period. For Gemini lagna Rahu is in 7th house. Keeping in mind the spritual/renunciate nature of the chart I think it is fair to rule out the husband/wife/lover significations of the 7th, focusing on the "partner, partnership, medium-term desires, business partner, co-operation, trade, commerce, travel, journeys, law courts, litigation, living abroad, relationship with all others, the world at large as seen by the native". Rahu in 7th does compell him toward forming partnerships & relationships with others despite him being a renunciate/monk. During the Dalai Lama's Rahu dasa 1974-1992 he traveled extensively forming partnerships & co-operating with famous and foreign leaders all over the world, including meeting with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican in 1980, 1982, 1986, 1988 and 1990. "In autumn of 1991, he visited the Baltic States at the invitation of Lithuanian President Vytautas Landsbergis of Lithuania and became the first foreign leader to address the Lithuanian Parliament" "In 1981, His Holiness talked with Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Robert Runcie, and with other leaders of the Anglican Church in London. He also met with leaders of the Roman Catholic and Jewish communities and spoke at an interfaith service held in his honor by the World Congress of Faiths." When Rahu is well-placed and well-aspected it can be seen to give huge rises in fame/renown. I think this fits better with Rahu in a kendra (7th) receiving aspect of Sun and Mercury, rather then then in the 8th house with the same aspect. Anyway, it is nice to turn our thoughts to the Dalai Lama and the people of Tibet. It is interesting to note this topic started around the anniversary of the invasion of Tibet and Dalai Lama's fleeing to India. Take it easy, Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Dear Sean, Third attempt to respond to your findings :-) ///02/22/1940 : enthrollment ceremony as the Dalai Lama Venus-Rahu period. Transit Rahu, bukti lord, is in 4th house, indicating sudden changes in residence/home. Transit rahu is aspected by transit Venus & Jupiter (no aspect of Saturn or Mars) indicating changes are for the better. Transit Venus, dasa lord, is in the 10th house of status. Transit Jupiter, 10th lord, is in the 10th house conjuct transit dasa lord Venus. Transit Saturn & Mars are in the 11th house of gains. While transit Sun & Mercury are conjuct in the 9th house of fortune. For this date the transit seem to favor the Gemini Lagna because of transit of 9th & 10th lords. (With Taurus lagna 9th/10th lord Saturn would have been transiting the 12th house of loss)./// As I'm sure you know, enthronement is connected with royalty...whether one is enthroned as the Queen of England or the Dalai Lama the intent behind the ritual is the same, agreed? 5th house governs ruling powers, royalty and such whilst 10th house governs status in society, dignity and so forth. I see bhukti lord Rahu transiting 5th, whilst his dispositor Mercury transits 10th along with Sun, to be the greater indication of this very specific event. It's important to understand that 8th (from any house) indicating discontinuation/change, implies (naturally) discontinuation/change of current circumstances (and therefore said to indicate fall from position etc). When one is enthroned their position/status is most definately changed...significantly! Hopefully I can add my comments to the following (soon) when I'm not quite so pressed for time. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ 11/17/1950 : he "was called upon to assume full political power (head of the State and Government) after some 80,000 Peoples Liberation Army soldiers invaded Tibet". In 1954 he went to Beijing to attemp to work out peace agreement Chinese, did not ever get worked out due to Bejing's "ruthless" policy in Eastern Tibet. Venus-Ketu dasa The circumstances on this date are much much worse than when the Dalai Lama was enthroned. Transit dasa lord Venus is in 6th house of difficulty/obstactles (Mars' house), same with transit 4th/1st lord Mercury and Sun. Rahu is transiting 10th house indicating sudden changes regarding status. He had to assume full political leadership because his country was under great duress -- being invaded by the Chinese. Notice transit 8th/9th lord Saturn & Transit bukti lord Ketu are conjuct natal Mars in the 4th house. Transit Mars is afflicting the lagna, 10th house, and transit Rahu. 8th/9th Saturn is activating both 4th & 10th houses. (BTW, I still really think Mars in 4th makes alot sense given the adjectives most often used to describe the occupation of the Chinese [Mars] in his home country [4th house] like "brutal" and "ruthless".) 03/10/1959 : the capital of Tibet, Lhasa, exploded with the largest demonstration in Tibetan history, calling on China to leave Tibet and reaffirming Tibet's independence. The Tibetan National Uprising was brutally crushed shortly after by the Chinese army. 3/17/1959 His Holiness fled Tibet (per Wendy's info) The dasa and major transits are the same for both of these dates, I'll just go over the 03/17/1959 date of Dalai Lama's fleeing. As Wendy posted this is during Mo-Ra. Mar is transiting 12th house conjuct transiting dasa lord Moon. Transit Mars is also aspecting natal position of dasa lord Moon (same no matter what lagna). Bukti lord Rahu is transiting 4th house of home/ home land indicating more sudden changes reqarding residence/home land. Changes are not so good as transit Rahu is aspected by transit Saturn & no aspect of Jupiter this time. Transit 10th lord Jupiter was in the 6th house of difficultes, afflicted by aspect of transit Mars from 12th. Trasit 8th/9th lord Saturn in 7th also afflicted by transit of Mars from 12th. Transit 8th/9th lord Saturn aspected natal Mars/4th house & lagna. Another thing I want to bring up in support of Gemini lagna is the nature of the Dalai Lamas Rahu period. For Gemini lagna Rahu is in 7th house. Keeping in mind the spritual/renunciate nature of the chart I think it is fair to rule out the husband/wife/lover significations of the 7th, focusing on the "partner, partnership, medium-term desires, business partner, co-operation, trade, commerce, travel, journeys, law courts, litigation, living abroad, relationship with all others, the world at large as seen by the native". Rahu in 7th does compell him toward forming partnerships & relationships with others despite him being a renunciate/monk. During the Dalai Lama's Rahu dasa 1974-1992 he traveled extensively forming partnerships & co-operating with famous and foreign leaders all over the world, including meeting with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican in 1980, 1982, 1986, 1988 and 1990. "In autumn of 1991, he visited the Baltic States at the invitation of Lithuanian President Vytautas Landsbergis of Lithuania and became the first foreign leader to address the Lithuanian Parliament" "In 1981, His Holiness talked with Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Robert Runcie, and with other leaders of the Anglican Church in London. He also met with leaders of the Roman Catholic and Jewish communities and spoke at an interfaith service held in his honor by the World Congress of Faiths." When Rahu is well-placed and well-aspected it can be seen to give huge rises in fame/renown. I think this fits better with Rahu in a kendra (7th) receiving aspect of Sun and Mercury, rather then then in the 8th house with the same aspect. Anyway, it is nice to turn our thoughts to the Dalai Lama and the people of Tibet. It is interesting to note this topic started around the anniversary of the invasion of Tibet and Dalai Lama's fleeing to India. Take it easy, Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Namaste Wendy and all, Please see reply below: jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sean, > > Third attempt to respond to your findings :-) > > ///02/22/1940 : enthrollment ceremony as the Dalai Lama > > Venus-Rahu period. > > Transit Rahu, bukti lord, is in 4th house, indicating sudden changes > in residence/home. Transit rahu is aspected by transit Venus & > Jupiter (no aspect of Saturn or Mars) indicating changes are for the > better. Transit Venus, dasa lord, is in the 10th house of status. > Transit Jupiter, 10th lord, is in the 10th house conjuct transit dasa > lord Venus. Transit Saturn & Mars are in the 11th house of gains. > While transit Sun & Mercury are conjuct in the 9th house of fortune. > > For this date the transit seem to favor the Gemini Lagna because of > transit of 9th & 10th lords. (With Taurus lagna 9th/10th lord Saturn > would have been transiting the 12th house of loss)./// > > As I'm sure you know, enthronement is connected with > royalty...whether one is enthroned as the Queen of England or the > Dalai Lama the intent behind the ritual is the same, agreed? 5th > house governs ruling powers, royalty and such whilst 10th house > governs status in society, dignity and so forth. I see bhukti lord > Rahu transiting 5th, whilst his dispositor Mercury transits 10th > along with Sun, to be the greater indication of this very specific > event. > > It's important to understand that 8th (from any house) indicating > discontinuation/change, implies (naturally) discontinuation/change of > current circumstances (and therefore said to indicate fall from > position etc). When one is enthroned their position/status is most > definately changed...significantly! > > Hopefully I can add my comments to the following (soon) when I'm not > quite so pressed for time. Wendy, first of all, thank you for perservering in getting your response sent & taking the time to do so. I've had the experience of having essays be wiped out by computer issues recently so I know how frustrating that is. Yes, I am aware 5th house is house of royalty (besides being house of children/disciples/mantras/intelligence, ect.). And for Gemini Lagna, Jupiter's natal position is in the 5th house. Given the significations of Jupiter this makes sense according to what is known about the native's life. I think that the 5th house indications for the Taurus lagna according to dasa and transits are great for this date as you have highlighted. However, I think the 5th house indications for this date are equally great, if not better, when looking at it from the prospective of a Gemini lagna: Venus is 5th lord for Gemini lagna. Venus during this time was dasa lord and was transiting the 10th house conjunct transit 10th lord Jupiter. So we have transit 5th & 10th lords conjunct and in the 10th house. At this time 5th house was further energized by the direct aspect of transit Saturn & Mars. If you look at Saturn as both 8th and 9th lord then its aspect on the 5th house, further enegerized by that of Mars, can be interpretted in a similar fashion that you interpreted Rahu's transit through 5th for Taurus lagna. As I said originally, for Gemini lagna, bukti lord Rahu's is transit through the 4th house makes sense as this was also a major change in residence for the native. Transit dasa lord Venus & Jupiter were aspecting this 4th house indicating change would be extremely benefitial and all 4th house matters were uplifted as they usually are when status is uplifted. The other side of the axis, Ketu, transiting through the 10th house highlights the spiritual significance of this status change and further adds the conotation of this being related to reincartation/past births/karma (the same significations of Ketu that make it very plausible for me to give weight to Ketu's natal position in the first house with ascendant, lagnesh Mercury, and the Sun.) Transit Sun & Mercury in the 9th house of fortune, with Sun as 3rd lord and Mercury as lagnesh, aspecting 3rd house of spiritual initiation can be seen to make sense as well. Take it easy, Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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