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Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

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The following is are two Vedic Astrology links that give Gemini lagna:

 

http://www.lightonVedic Astrology.com/dailyjyotish-110505.htm

 

http://singingsun.com/?p=14

 

Best wishes, Rui.

 

RPM <rupamede wrote: Dear Mrs Wendy and all,

 

I am using Kala software and it gives me Taurus lagna degree 29. But I always

check with www.astro.com and this time to my surpirse Kala and Astro.com do not

match as can be seen in the link below:

 

http://www.astro.com/im/vip/chart_dalailama_e.gif?lang=e

 

It gives Cancer lagna (tropical zodiac), which translated to Lahiri would be

Gemini...

 

For Taurus, indeed, influence of Jupiter will not always be good due to its 8th

house lordship and 6th house placement. Saturn would not always be bad due to

being the Yogakaraka, but if lagna is Gemini, then things change...

 

Thanks, Rui.

 

 

Wendy Vasicek <jyotish wrote: Dear Jiger,

 

The problem with these (generic) rules? is that the individual

lordship of the planets may be overlooked entirely.

 

Perhaps, Jiger, you might like to employ the said rule to the

following horoscope and give your interpretation:-)

 

Any other members like to share their thoughts on this chart?

 

Dalai Lama

Jul 6 1935 (04:38)

Tengster Village, China

36N32, 101E12

 

PS: Astrodatabank gives this time an A rating.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"jiger shah" <jigershah

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:26 PM

sat and jup

 

 

dear group

 

my daily exercise dose of astrology comes from translating brigh

prashna readings in English for

 

my friend and astrologer and brigu reader finn wandahl finn's

website is also very interesting

 

after studying quit a few readings from horoscopes that I have in my

collection

 

this simple conclusion was arrived

 

in a chart jup and sat 6/8 relation is best

 

when jup and sat aspect each other it produces good and bad results

for every major events

 

when jup is aspected by saturn this is worst as saturn alone is

capable of controlling all benefic effects of jup

in this sep up

 

and when jup aspects saturn is good as here jup alone is capable of

controlling Saturn

 

if Saturn is slowest jup is biggest planet

 

kind regs jiger shah

 

 

 

 

Vedic astrology

Personal reading Astrology chart

Astrology software

 

 

 

Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web.

 

jyotish-vidya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new

Security Centre.

 

 

 

 

Vedic astrology

Personal reading Astrology chart

Astrology software

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web.

 

jyotish-vidya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

 

 

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-

Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving Geminin

ascendant .

I think the difference is in the time zones.

 

Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b falls?

That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

 

-- In jyotish-vidya, RPM <rupamede wrote:

>

> The following is are two Vedic Astrology links that give Gemini

lagna:

>

> http://www.lightonVedic Astrology.com/dailyjyotish-110505.htm

>

> http://singingsun.com/?p=14

>

> Best wishes, Rui.

>

> RPM <rupamede wrote: Dear Mrs Wendy and all,

>

> I am using Kala software and it gives me Taurus lagna degree 29.

But I always check with www.astro.com and this time to my surpirse

Kala and Astro.com do not match as can be seen in the link below:

>

> http://www.astro.com/im/vip/chart_dalailama_e.gif?lang=e

>

> It gives Cancer lagna (tropical zodiac), which translated to

Lahiri would be Gemini...

>

> For Taurus, indeed, influence of Jupiter will not always be good

due to its 8th house lordship and 6th house placement. Saturn would

not always be bad due to being the Yogakaraka, but if lagna is

Gemini, then things change...

>

> Thanks, Rui.

>

>

> Wendy Vasicek <jyotish wrote: Dear Jiger,

>

> The problem with these (generic) rules? is that the individual

> lordship of the planets may be overlooked entirely.

>

> Perhaps, Jiger, you might like to employ the said rule to the

> following horoscope and give your interpretation:-)

>

> Any other members like to share their thoughts on this chart?

>

> Dalai Lama

> Jul 6 1935 (04:38)

> Tengster Village, China

> 36N32, 101E12

>

> PS: Astrodatabank gives this time an A rating.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ______________________________

>

> -

> "jiger shah" <jigershah

> <jyotish-vidya>

> Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:26 PM

> sat and jup

>

>

> dear group

>

> my daily exercise dose of astrology comes from translating

brigh

> prashna readings in English for

>

> my friend and astrologer and brigu reader finn wandahl finn's

> website is also very interesting

>

> after studying quit a few readings from horoscopes that I have

in my

> collection

>

> this simple conclusion was arrived

>

> in a chart jup and sat 6/8 relation is best

>

> when jup and sat aspect each other it produces good and bad

results

> for every major events

>

> when jup is aspected by saturn this is worst as saturn alone

is

> capable of controlling all benefic effects of jup

> in this sep up

>

> and when jup aspects saturn is good as here jup alone is

capable of

> controlling Saturn

>

> if Saturn is slowest jup is biggest planet

>

> kind regs jiger shah

>

>

>

>

>

> Vedic

astrology Personal

reading Astrology

chart

Astrology

software

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web.

>

>

> jyotish-vidya

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all

new Security Centre.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Vedic

astrology Personal

reading Astrology

chart

Astrology

software

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web.

>

>

> jyotish-vidya

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from

just 8p a photo.

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Neena and Rui,

 

Tibet/China fall within the same time zone. Of course the Dalai

Lama's birthplace was (at that time) Tibet and, according to my time

changes book, Chosen adopted standard time meridian 135E00 Mar 1

1932. All other provinces adopted STM 120E00 on the same date. 120E00

= 8.00. (135E00 = 9.00).

 

The Tibetan name for his place of birth was Taktser. Now under

Chinese rule it's called Tengster Village. However, regardless of the

name change, the place is still the same, same long & lat.

http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm

 

Regardless of any software irregularities (PL gives Taurus

29°51'04"), I'm confident that he has Taurus lagna. It could be that

the time is a little before 04:38 (sunrise) as it's reported that he

was born just BEFORE sunrise...how much before, who knows? But dasas

would probably cement it.

 

Facts supported by this chart:

*The Dalai Lama was forced into exile due to Chinese occupation of

Tibet. He was, until then, both the spiritual and political leader of

Tibet.

 

*YogaKaraka Saturn, lord of 9th/10th occupying moolatrikona sign in

10th is a sure testament of his leadership.

 

*8th house, as we know, shows our enemies...enemies in battle as

opposed to 6th house competitors/rivals/vices etc.. There can be no

doubt of the significance of 8th lord's aspect on Saturn and the

effect it had on his position as (all-over) leader of the Tibetan

people.

 

*1st/6th lord Venus conjunct 3rd lord Moon in 4th shows the great

affection/attachment he has to his homeland. He works tirelessly to

bring a resolution to the situation and none could doubt his motives

and the initiative that drives him towards this goal.

 

*4th lord Sun conjunct Ketu and aspected by 8th lord speaks again of

the separation/exile from his homeland....etc, etc..

 

I'll leave it here for now and let others offer their thoughts on

this chart :-)

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"neenako" <neenako

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:57 PM

Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

 

-

Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving Geminin

ascendant .

I think the difference is in the time zones.

 

Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b falls?

That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

 

-- In jyotish-vidya, RPM <rupamede wrote:

>

> The following is are two Vedic Astrology links that give Gemini

lagna:

>

> http://www.lightonVedic Astrology.com/dailyjyotish-110505.htm

>

> http://singingsun.com/?p=14

>

> Best wishes, Rui.

>

> RPM <rupamede wrote: Dear Mrs Wendy and all,

>

> I am using Kala software and it gives me Taurus lagna degree 29.

But I always check with www.astro.com and this time to my surpirse

Kala and Astro.com do not match as can be seen in the link below:

>

> http://www.astro.com/im/vip/chart_dalailama_e.gif?lang=e

>

> It gives Cancer lagna (tropical zodiac), which translated to

Lahiri would be Gemini...

>

> For Taurus, indeed, influence of Jupiter will not always be good

due to its 8th house lordship and 6th house placement. Saturn would

not always be bad due to being the Yogakaraka, but if lagna is

Gemini, then things change...

>

> Thanks, Rui.

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"neenako" <neenako wrote:

> Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving Geminin

> ascendant .

> I think the difference is in the time zones.

>

> Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b falls?

> That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

 

Hi Neena, there's scope for confusion there.

 

In 1935 the timezone for Xining, a nearby town, was GMT+7, according

to GJ. The communists later changed the whole of China from the

original 5 time zones to one zone of GMT+8. Wikipedia

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zones_of_China) implies this

change was made after 1949, but GJ seems to count it from 1980.

DST is never used in China, so at least that part is simple.

 

Anyway, assuming zone GMT+7 and DST 0, I get an ascendant of 14d

Gemini.

 

Barney

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-

Thanks Wendy, for getting all the info.

 

Taurus seems the right lagna.

It well tallies with his life events.

 

Regards,

 

Neena

-- In jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Neena and Rui,

>

> Tibet/China fall within the same time zone. Of course the Dalai

> Lama's birthplace was (at that time) Tibet and, according to my

time

> changes book, Chosen adopted standard time meridian 135E00 Mar 1

> 1932. All other provinces adopted STM 120E00 on the same date.

120E00

> = 8.00. (135E00 = 9.00).

>

> The Tibetan name for his place of birth was Taktser. Now under

> Chinese rule it's called Tengster Village. However, regardless of

the

> name change, the place is still the same, same long & lat.

> http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm

>

> Regardless of any software irregularities (PL gives Taurus

> 29°51'04"), I'm confident that he has Taurus lagna. It could be

that

> the time is a little before 04:38 (sunrise) as it's reported that

he

> was born just BEFORE sunrise...how much before, who knows? But

dasas

> would probably cement it.

>

> Facts supported by this chart:

> *The Dalai Lama was forced into exile due to Chinese occupation of

> Tibet. He was, until then, both the spiritual and political leader

of

> Tibet.

>

> *YogaKaraka Saturn, lord of 9th/10th occupying moolatrikona sign

in

> 10th is a sure testament of his leadership.

>

> *8th house, as we know, shows our enemies...enemies in battle as

> opposed to 6th house competitors/rivals/vices etc.. There can be

no

> doubt of the significance of 8th lord's aspect on Saturn and the

> effect it had on his position as (all-over) leader of the Tibetan

> people.

>

> *1st/6th lord Venus conjunct 3rd lord Moon in 4th shows the great

> affection/attachment he has to his homeland. He works tirelessly

to

> bring a resolution to the situation and none could doubt his

motives

> and the initiative that drives him towards this goal.

>

> *4th lord Sun conjunct Ketu and aspected by 8th lord speaks again

of

> the separation/exile from his homeland....etc, etc..

>

> I'll leave it here for now and let others offer their thoughts on

> this chart :-)

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ______________________________

>

> -

> "neenako" <neenako

> <jyotish-vidya>

> Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:57 PM

> Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

>

>

> -

> Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving Geminin

> ascendant .

> I think the difference is in the time zones.

>

> Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b falls?

> That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

>

> -- In jyotish-vidya, RPM <rupamede@> wrote:

> >

> > The following is are two Vedic Astrology links that give Gemini

> lagna:

> >

> > http://www.lightonVedic Astrology.com/dailyjyotish-110505.htm

> >

> > http://singingsun.com/?p=14

> >

> > Best wishes, Rui.

> >

> > RPM <rupamede@> wrote: Dear Mrs Wendy and all,

> >

> > I am using Kala software and it gives me Taurus lagna degree 29.

> But I always check with www.astro.com and this time to my surpirse

> Kala and Astro.com do not match as can be seen in the link below:

> >

> > http://www.astro.com/im/vip/chart_dalailama_e.gif?lang=e

> >

> > It gives Cancer lagna (tropical zodiac), which translated to

> Lahiri would be Gemini...

> >

> > For Taurus, indeed, influence of Jupiter will not always be good

> due to its 8th house lordship and 6th house placement. Saturn would

> not always be bad due to being the Yogakaraka, but if lagna is

> Gemini, then things change...

> >

> > Thanks, Rui.

>

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PS: Just one last observation in support of this chart. We know that

Tibetan Buddhism is tantric by nature - Note Jupiter's dispositorship

of Rahu (in 8th) and consider again (this) Jupiter's aspect on

9th/10th lord.

___________________________

 

 

Dear Neena and Rui,

 

Tibet/China fall within the same time zone. Of course the Dalai

Lama's birthplace was (at that time) Tibet and, according to my time

changes book, Chosen adopted standard time meridian 135E00 Mar 1

1932. All other provinces adopted STM 120E00 on the same date. 120E00

= 8.00. (135E00 = 9.00).

 

The Tibetan name for his place of birth was Taktser. Now under

Chinese rule it's called Tengster Village. However, regardless of the

name change, the place is still the same, same long & lat.

http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm

 

Regardless of any software irregularities (PL gives Taurus

29°51'04"), I'm confident that he has Taurus lagna. It could be that

the time is a little before 04:38 (sunrise) as it's reported that he

was born just BEFORE sunrise...how much before, who knows? But dasas

would probably cement it.

 

Facts supported by this chart:

*The Dalai Lama was forced into exile due to Chinese occupation of

Tibet. He was, until then, both the spiritual and political leader of

Tibet.

 

*YogaKaraka Saturn, lord of 9th/10th occupying moolatrikona sign in

10th is a sure testament of his leadership.

 

*8th house, as we know, shows our enemies...enemies in battle as

opposed to 6th house competitors/rivals/vices etc.. There can be no

doubt of the significance of 8th lord's aspect on Saturn and the

effect it had on his position as (all-over) leader of the Tibetan

people.

 

*1st/6th lord Venus conjunct 3rd lord Moon in 4th shows the great

affection/attachment he has to his homeland. He works tirelessly to

bring a resolution to the situation and none could doubt his motives

and the initiative that drives him towards this goal.

 

*4th lord Sun conjunct Ketu and aspected by 8th lord speaks again of

the separation/exile from his homeland....etc, etc..

 

I'll leave it here for now and let others offer their thoughts on

this chart :-)

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"neenako" <neenako

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:57 PM

Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

 

-

Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving Geminin

ascendant .

I think the difference is in the time zones.

 

Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b falls?

That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

 

-- In jyotish-vidya, RPM <rupamede wrote:

>

> The following is are two Vedic Astrology links that give Gemini

lagna:

>

> http://www.lightonVedic Astrology.com/dailyjyotish-110505.htm

>

> http://singingsun.com/?p=14

>

> Best wishes, Rui.

>

> RPM <rupamede wrote: Dear Mrs Wendy and all,

>

> I am using Kala software and it gives me Taurus lagna degree 29.

But I always check with www.astro.com and this time to my surpirse

Kala and Astro.com do not match as can be seen in the link below:

>

> http://www.astro.com/im/vip/chart_dalailama_e.gif?lang=e

>

> It gives Cancer lagna (tropical zodiac), which translated to

Lahiri would be Gemini...

>

> For Taurus, indeed, influence of Jupiter will not always be good

due to its 8th house lordship and 6th house placement. Saturn would

not always be bad due to being the Yogakaraka, but if lagna is

Gemini, then things change...

>

> Thanks, Rui.

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Guest guest

--

Barney,

This is getting confusing. Another site gives the time zone as 5-30

according to which the lagna turns out to be Cancer.

But I don't think this one can be right as India's time zone is 5-

30 .

Taktser is a small village so not on the map.

As Wendy has written the whole of Tibet is now in the China time

zone.

Lhasa, the capital of erstwhile Tibet, is also in time zone 8-00.

 

What does astrodata.com say on this ?

 

if they are taking 7.00 as the zone then the ascendant is Gemini.

 

May be it needs searching a liitle more!!

 

Neena

 

 

- In jyotish-vidya, "barney3728080"

<barney3728080 wrote:

>

> "neenako" <neenako@> wrote:

> > Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving

Geminin

> > ascendant .

> > I think the difference is in the time zones.

> >

> > Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b falls?

> > That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

>

> Hi Neena, there's scope for confusion there.

>

> In 1935 the timezone for Xining, a nearby town, was GMT+7,

according

> to GJ. The communists later changed the whole of China from the

> original 5 time zones to one zone of GMT+8. Wikipedia

> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zones_of_China) implies this

> change was made after 1949, but GJ seems to count it from 1980.

> DST is never used in China, so at least that part is simple.

>

> Anyway, assuming zone GMT+7 and DST 0, I get an ascendant of 14d

> Gemini.

>

> Barney

>

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"neenako" <neenako wrote:

> Barney,

> This is getting confusing. Another site gives the time zone as 5-30

> according to which the lagna turns out to be Cancer.

> But I don't think this one can be right as India's time zone is 5-

> 30 .

> Taktser is a small village so not on the map.

> As Wendy has written the whole of Tibet is now in the China time

> zone.

> Lhasa, the capital of erstwhile Tibet, is also in time zone 8-00.

>

> What does astrodata.com say on this ?

>

> if they are taking 7.00 as the zone then the ascendant is Gemini.

>

> May be it needs searching a liitle more!!

>

> Neena

 

Hi Neena & Wendy,

 

Yes, it could get confusing. I would tend to treat the birth time as

unreliable anyway. He was the fifth child in a (probably poor)

farming family, so it's unlikely they kept good records. If they did

keep records it's likely the clocks were not accurate or synchronised

to any standard. Even clocks in the west were not standardised until

towns were linked by railways which had to run to timetables. Before

that every town had it's own timezone, typically set by a sundial at

midday.

 

I think the accuracy of this birth time should be doubted until it has

been *rigorously* rectified. And if you treat the birth time as

unknown, you can use any zone you want :-)

 

Just my opinion

Barney

 

>

>

> - In jyotish-vidya, "barney3728080"

> <barney3728080@> wrote:

> >

> > "neenako" <neenako@> wrote:

> > > Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving

> Geminin

> > > ascendant .

> > > I think the difference is in the time zones.

> > >

> > > Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b falls?

> > > That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

> >

> > Hi Neena, there's scope for confusion there.

> >

> > In 1935 the timezone for Xining, a nearby town, was GMT+7,

> according

> > to GJ. The communists later changed the whole of China from the

> > original 5 time zones to one zone of GMT+8. Wikipedia

> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zones_of_China) implies this

> > change was made after 1949, but GJ seems to count it from 1980.

> > DST is never used in China, so at least that part is simple.

> >

> > Anyway, assuming zone GMT+7 and DST 0, I get an ascendant of 14d

> > Gemini.

> >

> > Barney

> >

>

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Guest guest

--

 

Kozmikhoroscopes.com/dalai.htm gives the t.o.b as 23.00 hrs

 

Yes the chances are that no one recorded the time in village in the

year 1935. Probably there were no clocks in the village also, for

all you know.

 

- In jyotish-vidya, "barney3728080"

<barney3728080 wrote:

>

> "neenako" <neenako@> wrote:

> > Barney,

> > This is getting confusing. Another site gives the time zone as 5-

30

> > according to which the lagna turns out to be Cancer.

> > But I don't think this one can be right as India's time zone is

5-

> > 30 .

> > Taktser is a small village so not on the map.

> > As Wendy has written the whole of Tibet is now in the China time

> > zone.

> > Lhasa, the capital of erstwhile Tibet, is also in time zone 8-00.

> >

> > What does astrodata.com say on this ?

> >

> > if they are taking 7.00 as the zone then the ascendant is Gemini.

> >

> > May be it needs searching a liitle more!!

> >

> > Neena

>

> Hi Neena & Wendy,

>

> Yes, it could get confusing. I would tend to treat the birth time

as

> unreliable anyway. He was the fifth child in a (probably poor)

> farming family, so it's unlikely they kept good records. If they

did

> keep records it's likely the clocks were not accurate or

synchronised

> to any standard. Even clocks in the west were not standardised

until

> towns were linked by railways which had to run to timetables.

Before

> that every town had it's own timezone, typically set by a sundial

at

> midday.

>

> I think the accuracy of this birth time should be doubted until it

has

> been *rigorously* rectified. And if you treat the birth time as

> unknown, you can use any zone you want :-)

>

> Just my opinion

> Barney

>

> >

> >

> > - In jyotish-vidya, "barney3728080"

> > <barney3728080@> wrote:

> > >

> > > "neenako" <neenako@> wrote:

> > > > Have checked the sites mentioned by you and they are giving

> > Geminin

> > > > ascendant .

> > > > I think the difference is in the time zones.

> > > >

> > > > Is it possible to check the time zone in which the p.o.b

falls?

> > > > That should help us decide the lagna for sure.

> > >

> > > Hi Neena, there's scope for confusion there.

> > >

> > > In 1935 the timezone for Xining, a nearby town, was GMT+7,

> > according

> > > to GJ. The communists later changed the whole of China from

the

> > > original 5 time zones to one zone of GMT+8. Wikipedia

> > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zones_of_China) implies this

> > > change was made after 1949, but GJ seems to count it from 1980.

> > > DST is never used in China, so at least that part is simple.

> > >

> > > Anyway, assuming zone GMT+7 and DST 0, I get an ascendant of

14d

> > > Gemini.

> > >

> > > Barney

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Barney,

 

//Yes, it could get confusing. I would tend to treat the birth time

as

unreliable anyway. He was the fifth child in a (probably poor)

farming family, so it's unlikely they kept good records.//

 

Astrology plays an important role in Tibetan Buddhism. I'm sure that

families were meticulous in noting the time of birth (by whatever

means at their disposal). Each village (or province) had its resident

Lama who was called upon to set the date for important events such as

marriage, funeral etc.. Astrology was very much a part of Tibetan

day-to-day life.

 

If the Dalai Lama's Mother is quoted as saying he was born before

sunrise, I think it should be given due credence...

However, let the chart speak for itself!

 

>From Astrodatabank:

"Sally Thibodeau quotes Dalai Lama, My Son, which is the story of his

mother told to her granddaughter. On p.89 his mother is quoted as

saying he "was born early in the morning, before sunrise." (LMR

calculates sunrise at that date and location as 4:38 AM.)"

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

jyotish-vidya

______________________________

 

-

"barney3728080" <barney3728080

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:08 PM

Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

Hi Neena & Wendy,

 

Yes, it could get confusing. I would tend to treat the birth time as

unreliable anyway. He was the fifth child in a (probably poor)

farming family, so it's unlikely they kept good records. If they did

keep records it's likely the clocks were not accurate or synchronised

to any standard. Even clocks in the west were not standardised until

towns were linked by railways which had to run to timetables. Before

that every town had it's own timezone, typically set by a sundial at

midday.

 

I think the accuracy of this birth time should be doubted until it

has

been *rigorously* rectified. And if you treat the birth time as

unknown, you can use any zone you want :-)

 

Just my opinion

Barney

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//If the Dalai Lama's Mother is quoted as saying he was born before

sunrise, I think it should be given due credence...

However, let the chart speak for itself!//

 

It would be better to work more on the chart and less on

contradictory websites which only lead to more and more confusion,

don't you agree? Look at all possibilities and see what the chart

tells you!

 

An exercise I used to do (before I had any astrology software) was to

draw 12 charts (for each lagna) then by simple deduction I would come

to the right chart. Knowing the life of a native, most possibilities

can be eliminated straight off...then you just keep working on the

others until there's no doubt in your mind which is the right chart.

______________________________

 

-

"Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:55 PM

Re: Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

 

Dear Barney,

 

//Yes, it could get confusing. I would tend to treat the birth time

as unreliable anyway. He was the fifth child in a (probably poor)

farming family, so it's unlikely they kept good records.//

 

Astrology plays an important role in Tibetan Buddhism. I'm sure that

families were meticulous in noting the time of birth (by whatever

means at their disposal). Each village (or province) had its resident

Lama who was called upon to set the date for important events such as

marriage, funeral etc.. Astrology was very much a part of Tibetan

day-to-day life.

 

If the Dalai Lama's Mother is quoted as saying he was born before

sunrise, I think it should be given due credence...

However, let the chart speak for itself!

 

>From Astrodatabank:

"Sally Thibodeau quotes Dalai Lama, My Son, which is the story of his

mother told to her granddaughter. On p.89 his mother is quoted as

saying he "was born early in the morning, before sunrise." (LMR

calculates sunrise at that date and location as 4:38 AM.)"

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

jyotish-vidya

______________________________

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//An exercise I used to do (before I had any astrology software) was

to

draw 12 charts (for each lagna)//

 

That, of course, should read; "12 charts (one for each lagna)"

______________________________

 

-

"Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:12 PM

Re: Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

 

//If the Dalai Lama's Mother is quoted as saying he was born before

sunrise, I think it should be given due credence...

However, let the chart speak for itself!//

 

It would be better to work more on the chart and less on

contradictory websites which only lead to more and more confusion,

don't you agree? Look at all possibilities and see what the chart

tells you!

 

An exercise I used to do (before I had any astrology software) was to

draw 12 charts (for each lagna) then by simple deduction I would come

to the right chart. Knowing the life of a native, most possibilities

can be eliminated straight off...then you just keep working on the

others until there's no doubt in your mind which is the right chart.

______________________________

 

-

"Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:55 PM

Re: Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

 

Dear Barney,

 

//Yes, it could get confusing. I would tend to treat the birth time

as unreliable anyway. He was the fifth child in a (probably poor)

farming family, so it's unlikely they kept good records.//

 

Astrology plays an important role in Tibetan Buddhism. I'm sure that

families were meticulous in noting the time of birth (by whatever

means at their disposal). Each village (or province) had its resident

Lama who was called upon to set the date for important events such as

marriage, funeral etc.. Astrology was very much a part of Tibetan

day-to-day life.

 

If the Dalai Lama's Mother is quoted as saying he was born before

sunrise, I think it should be given due credence...

However, let the chart speak for itself!

 

>From Astrodatabank:

"Sally Thibodeau quotes Dalai Lama, My Son, which is the story of his

mother told to her granddaughter. On p.89 his mother is quoted as

saying he "was born early in the morning, before sunrise." (LMR

calculates sunrise at that date and location as 4:38 AM.)"

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

jyotish-vidya

______________________________

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"Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote:

>

> //If the Dalai Lama's Mother is quoted as saying he was born before

> sunrise, I think it should be given due credence...

> However, let the chart speak for itself!//

>

> It would be better to work more on the chart and less on

> contradictory websites which only lead to more and more confusion,

> don't you agree? Look at all possibilities and see what the chart

> tells you!

>

> An exercise I used to do (before I had any astrology software) was to

> draw 12 charts (for each lagna) then by simple deduction I would come

> to the right chart. Knowing the life of a native, most possibilities

> can be eliminated straight off...then you just keep working on the

> others until there's no doubt in your mind which is the right chart.

 

Well said Wendy. That's just the sort of approach I was thinking of

when I suggested rigorous rectification. I would want to correlate a

few events with dashas too. Of course being inclined to spend the

time needed on such a (purely academic) exercise is another matter...

 

Barney

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Dear Barney,

 

//Of course being inclined to spend the

time needed on such a (purely academic) exercise is another

matter...//

 

It's called honing your skills :-)

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

jyotish-vidya

______________________________

 

-

"barney3728080" <barney3728080

<jyotish-vidya>

Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:33 PM

Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

Well said Wendy. That's just the sort of approach I was thinking of

when I suggested rigorous rectification. I would want to correlate a

few events with dashas too. Of course being inclined to spend the

time needed on such a (purely academic) exercise is another matter...

 

Barney

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Namaste

 

Thanks to the links provided by Rui, I was able to take a quick look

at the chart.

 

To me it looks like there are just as many supporting factors for the

Gemini ascendant. From the Mercury, Sun, and Ketu in lagna one

can get a sense of the leadership & communication/teaching in the

spiritual field right off the bat. The aspect of Jupiter from 5th

supports this further. Compare that with the Taurus lagna which has

no planets & no aspect. This I think is a significant difference

between the 2 lagnas.

 

Plus if you look at the 5th house of disciples with Gemini acendant

Jupiter is there which would indicate abundance, while with Taurus

lagna you have malefic 12th/7th lord Mars there w/o any aspect which

would indicate dearth. Also consider the 5th house indication of

blessings from previous life.

 

The trouble to homeland can be seen using the Gemini ascendant as the

natural & functional malefic (11th & 6th lord) Mars is stationed in

the 4th house of home w/o any other aspect which indicates many

difficulties and obstacles, violence associated with home. While

most consider him to be the rightful leader of his country & people

(10th lord Jupiter in 5th), the forceful obstruction to his actual

political leadership of his country can be seen by the Mars aspect on

10th. The large importance of the troubled homeland to this life

can be seen by 4th lord Mercury in the ascendant.

 

Plus the spiritual/leadership qualities are still there for the

Gemini ascendant: 9th lord Saturn in 9th aspected by 10th lord

Jupiter from 5th.

 

At the heart of his sprititual tradition is compassion & mindfulness

with unattachement -- this may be indicated by the mutual aspect

between the Moon/Venus conjuction and 9th lord Saturn which is there

for either the Gemini acendant (9th lord Saturn in 9th house) or

Taurus Ascendant (9th lord Saturn in 10th).

 

Please see further comments below:

 

 

jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish

wrote:

>

> PS: Just one last observation in support of this chart. We know

that

> Tibetan Buddhism is tantric by nature - Note Jupiter's

dispositorship

> of Rahu (in 8th) and consider again (this) Jupiter's aspect on

> 9th/10th lord.

 

With Gemini ascendant one could also find this indication: note 8th

lord Saturn in 9th house, still aspected by Jupiter who is still

dispositer of Rahu.

 

> Facts supported by this chart:

> *The Dalai Lama was forced into exile due to Chinese occupation of

> Tibet. He was, until then, both the spiritual and political leader

of

> Tibet.

>

> *YogaKaraka Saturn, lord of 9th/10th occupying moolatrikona sign in

> 10th is a sure testament of his leadership.

 

With Gemini, 9th lord Saturn in 9th house, still in moolatrikrona,

aspected by 10th lord Jupiter from 5th. Plus two royal planets Sun &

Mercury in lagna. This can also be a sure testament of his

leadership?

 

 

>

> *8th house, as we know, shows our enemies...enemies in battle as

> opposed to 6th house competitors/rivals/vices etc.. There can be no

> doubt of the significance of 8th lord's aspect on Saturn and the

> effect it had on his position as (all-over) leader of the Tibetan

> people.

 

As I wrote above, for Gemini ascendant Mars, the natural significator

of the 8th house matter of enemies in battle, as a functional &

natural malefic w/o aspect can be seen to be the disruptor of his

homeland & political leadership. It seems more like a Mars thing

then a Jupiter thing (even if Jupiter is 8th lord in the case of

Tauras lagna)?

 

>

> *1st/6th lord Venus conjunct 3rd lord Moon in 4th shows the great

> affection/attachment he has to his homeland. He works tirelessly to

> bring a resolution to the situation and none could doubt his motives

> and the initiative that drives him towards this goal.

 

I wouldn't consider him "attached" to anything, but his life and

purpose is definitely intertwined with that of his homeland. With

Gemini lagna this can be seen with 4th lord/lagnesh Mercury in Lagna

conjuct natural Atma karaka & 3rd lord Sun. He is initiatives are

motivated by compassion/love tempered with intellegence and non-

attachement as seen with Gemini lagna as Moon/Venus is in 3rd

aspected by 8th/9th lord Saturn.

 

>

> *4th lord Sun conjunct Ketu and aspected by 8th lord speaks again of

> the separation/exile from his homeland....etc, etc..

 

With Gemini ascendant this is much the same as 4th lord Mercury is

conjunct Ketu. Further the importance/prominance of this in his life

is seen as it occurs in the lagna.

 

If possible it would be interesting to take a look at the chart for

the previous incarnation of the Dalai Lama.

 

Take it easy,

Sean

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While both ascendants have supporting factors and I am inclined to

think that the time zone of 8.00 may not be accurate, the basic

facts are that Dalai Lama is the worlds most famous exile and a

Nobel prize winner.

Which of the two ascendants do you think supports these facts?

 

jyotish-vidya, "Sean Patrick Kelly"

<toosean wrote:

>

> Namaste

>

> Thanks to the links provided by Rui, I was able to take a quick

look

> at the chart.

>

> To me it looks like there are just as many supporting factors for

the

> Gemini ascendant. From the Mercury, Sun, and Ketu in lagna one

> can get a sense of the leadership & communication/teaching in the

> spiritual field right off the bat. The aspect of Jupiter from

5th

> supports this further. Compare that with the Taurus lagna which

has

> no planets & no aspect. This I think is a significant difference

> between the 2 lagnas.

>

> Plus if you look at the 5th house of disciples with Gemini

acendant

> Jupiter is there which would indicate abundance, while with Taurus

> lagna you have malefic 12th/7th lord Mars there w/o any aspect

which

> would indicate dearth. Also consider the 5th house indication of

> blessings from previous life.

>

> The trouble to homeland can be seen using the Gemini ascendant as

the

> natural & functional malefic (11th & 6th lord) Mars is stationed

in

> the 4th house of home w/o any other aspect which indicates many

> difficulties and obstacles, violence associated with home. While

> most consider him to be the rightful leader of his country &

people

> (10th lord Jupiter in 5th), the forceful obstruction to his

actual

> political leadership of his country can be seen by the Mars aspect

on

> 10th. The large importance of the troubled homeland to this

life

> can be seen by 4th lord Mercury in the ascendant.

>

> Plus the spiritual/leadership qualities are still there for the

> Gemini ascendant: 9th lord Saturn in 9th aspected by 10th lord

> Jupiter from 5th.

>

> At the heart of his sprititual tradition is compassion &

mindfulness

> with unattachement -- this may be indicated by the mutual aspect

> between the Moon/Venus conjuction and 9th lord Saturn which is

there

> for either the Gemini acendant (9th lord Saturn in 9th house) or

> Taurus Ascendant (9th lord Saturn in 10th).

>

> Please see further comments below:

>

>

> jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > PS: Just one last observation in support of this chart. We know

> that

> > Tibetan Buddhism is tantric by nature - Note Jupiter's

> dispositorship

> > of Rahu (in 8th) and consider again (this) Jupiter's aspect on

> > 9th/10th lord.

>

> With Gemini ascendant one could also find this indication: note

8th

> lord Saturn in 9th house, still aspected by Jupiter who is still

> dispositer of Rahu.

>

> > Facts supported by this chart:

> > *The Dalai Lama was forced into exile due to Chinese occupation

of

> > Tibet. He was, until then, both the spiritual and political

leader

> of

> > Tibet.

> >

> > *YogaKaraka Saturn, lord of 9th/10th occupying moolatrikona sign

in

> > 10th is a sure testament of his leadership.

>

> With Gemini, 9th lord Saturn in 9th house, still in moolatrikrona,

> aspected by 10th lord Jupiter from 5th. Plus two royal planets

Sun &

> Mercury in lagna. This can also be a sure testament of his

> leadership?

>

>

> >

> > *8th house, as we know, shows our enemies...enemies in battle as

> > opposed to 6th house competitors/rivals/vices etc.. There can be

no

> > doubt of the significance of 8th lord's aspect on Saturn and the

> > effect it had on his position as (all-over) leader of the Tibetan

> > people.

>

> As I wrote above, for Gemini ascendant Mars, the natural

significator

> of the 8th house matter of enemies in battle, as a functional &

> natural malefic w/o aspect can be seen to be the disruptor of his

> homeland & political leadership. It seems more like a Mars thing

> then a Jupiter thing (even if Jupiter is 8th lord in the case of

> Tauras lagna)?

>

> >

> > *1st/6th lord Venus conjunct 3rd lord Moon in 4th shows the great

> > affection/attachment he has to his homeland. He works tirelessly

to

> > bring a resolution to the situation and none could doubt his

motives

> > and the initiative that drives him towards this goal.

>

> I wouldn't consider him "attached" to anything, but his life and

> purpose is definitely intertwined with that of his homeland. With

> Gemini lagna this can be seen with 4th lord/lagnesh Mercury in

Lagna

> conjuct natural Atma karaka & 3rd lord Sun. He is initiatives

are

> motivated by compassion/love tempered with intellegence and non-

> attachement as seen with Gemini lagna as Moon/Venus is in 3rd

> aspected by 8th/9th lord Saturn.

>

> >

> > *4th lord Sun conjunct Ketu and aspected by 8th lord speaks

again of

> > the separation/exile from his homeland....etc, etc..

>

> With Gemini ascendant this is much the same as 4th lord Mercury is

> conjunct Ketu. Further the importance/prominance of this in his

life

> is seen as it occurs in the lagna.

>

> If possible it would be interesting to take a look at the chart

for

> the previous incarnation of the Dalai Lama.

>

> Take it easy,

> Sean

>

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Hello Sean,

 

Interrupting my 'time off' to respond to your comments if I may :-)

 

I ask you to consider Rahu in 7th house of marriage whilst 7th house

is aspected by Mars? Rahu compels us towards the affairs of the house

he occupies (Gemini). Or...

Renuncient Saturn aspecting both Venus and 7th (Taurus).

 

//If possible it would be interesting to take a look at the chart for

the previous incarnation of the Dalai Lama.//

 

Pre-Natal Abode:

Stronger of the luminaries occupying decanate of Jupiter etc...

http://jyotishvidya.com/ch44.htm

 

Ascent after death:

Planets in 12th, 7th, 6th or 8th (in that order) indicate the abode

after death. If no planet in 12th then look to 7th; no planet in 7th

look to 6th etc... Taurus lagna gives Jupiter in 6th indicating

heavenly abode. Gemini gives Rahu in 7th???

 

Moksha (Taurus):

4th (moksha) lord Sun, conjunct MokshaKaraka Ketu, aspecting 8th

(moksha house). 8th (moksha) lord Jupiter aspecting both 12th (moksha

house) and moksha lord Sun. 12th (moksha) lord Mars aspecting both

8th and 12th moksha houses.

 

//To me it looks like there are just as many supporting factors for

the

Gemini ascendant. From the Mercury, Sun, and Ketu in lagna one

can get a sense of the leadership & communication/teaching in the

spiritual field right off the bat. The aspect of Jupiter from 5th

supports this further. Compare that with the Taurus lagna which has

no planets & no aspect. This I think is a significant difference

between the 2 lagnas.//

 

Gemini:

Inimical 3rd lord Sun, conjunct lagna lord in lagna...what does this

tell you about the Ego??? Such an ego may well aspire to a position

of authority. However, the Dalai Lama never fails to impress upon

people his strong conviction that he (at the core of his being) is

"just a simple monk". Might I remind members of Fraser's chart with

SU/ME in 1st house. Sun in lagna speaks of issues regarding ego - no

doubt! This position can indicate a strong ego/strong sense of

self-importance or (if weak/afflicted) can indicate problems related

to self-esteem etc..

 

Taurus:

Ascendant lord Venus, in nakshatra of Ketu, conjunct Moon in 4th

(moksha house). His whole life has been spent in the pursuit of

moksha...from a small child this has been the only life he's known.

Look again at Sun conjunct Ketu. This moksha lord Sun, dispositor of

lagna lord, conjuncts lagna lord's star lord...can you see the

compatible nature of this Sun and Ketu (both with the same intent -

moksha), as opposed to the inherent conflict between MokshaKaraka

Ketu and 3rd lord Sun in lagna?

 

2nd house governs education and educators (oral expression of

knowledge and so forth). Consider 5th lord(mantras) conjunct such

moksha indicators (SU/KE) in 2nd house...and aspected by moksha lord

Jupiter.

 

//Plus if you look at the 5th house of disciples with Gemini acendant

Jupiter is there which would indicate abundance, while with Taurus

lagna you have malefic 12th/7th lord Mars there w/o any aspect which

would indicate dearth. Also consider the 5th house indication of

blessings from previous life.//

 

No! Jupiter in 5th is not such a favourable placement for

children...can in fact deny children (unless there are favourable

aspects). Children BTW means all children including disciples,

students etc..

 

Consider moolatrikona as the stronger influence (always). 7th lord in

5th (gemini). Or...

12th lord in 5th (taurus). Because of his exile, Buddhism has spread

all around the globe...followers/disciples from many countries. Many

of these followers are also dedicated teachers - 5th lord in 2nd.

 

Another important point regarding gemini is 10th lord Jupiter's

position in 8th from 10th. This can indicate changes in career/status

(fall from position). In spite of the occupation of his homeland and

subsequent exile, he always has been and always will be the Dalai

Lama...no fall from position is possible. Although we can certainly

see the influence of invading army (aspect of 8th lord Jupiter for

Taurus), his position as Dalai Lama is fixed solidly with 10th lord

Saturn in 10th. Compare this with Saddam Hussein's chart with Saturn

in 10th conjunct 5th lord Venus. He rose to great heights during

Venus dasa but his fall from position has been just as dramatic.

 

Providing the time is correct Hussein was running MA-RA-RA dasa at

time of US invasion (Mar 20 2003). Transit Mars was aspecting 10th.

Rahu & Saturn were transiting 12th in sign of Venus, whilst Venus was

transiting 8th in sign of Saturn etc..

 

Saddam Hussein

Apr 28 1937 (08:55)

Tikrit, Iraq

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

jyotish-vidya

______________________________

 

-

"Sean Patrick Kelly" <toosean

<jyotish-vidya>

Friday, March 17, 2006 12:39 AM

Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

 

 

Namaste

 

Thanks to the links provided by Rui, I was able to take a quick look

at the chart.

 

To me it looks like there are just as many supporting factors for the

Gemini ascendant. From the Mercury, Sun, and Ketu in lagna one

can get a sense of the leadership & communication/teaching in the

spiritual field right off the bat. The aspect of Jupiter from 5th

supports this further. Compare that with the Taurus lagna which has

no planets & no aspect. This I think is a significant difference

between the 2 lagnas.

 

Plus if you look at the 5th house of disciples with Gemini acendant

Jupiter is there which would indicate abundance, while with Taurus

lagna you have malefic 12th/7th lord Mars there w/o any aspect which

would indicate dearth. Also consider the 5th house indication of

blessings from previous life.

 

The trouble to homeland can be seen using the Gemini ascendant as the

natural & functional malefic (11th & 6th lord) Mars is stationed in

the 4th house of home w/o any other aspect which indicates many

difficulties and obstacles, violence associated with home. While

most consider him to be the rightful leader of his country & people

(10th lord Jupiter in 5th), the forceful obstruction to his actual

political leadership of his country can be seen by the Mars aspect on

10th. The large importance of the troubled homeland to this life

can be seen by 4th lord Mercury in the ascendant.

 

Plus the spiritual/leadership qualities are still there for the

Gemini ascendant: 9th lord Saturn in 9th aspected by 10th lord

Jupiter from 5th.

 

At the heart of his sprititual tradition is compassion & mindfulness

with unattachement -- this may be indicated by the mutual aspect

between the Moon/Venus conjuction and 9th lord Saturn which is there

for either the Gemini acendant (9th lord Saturn in 9th house) or

Taurus Ascendant (9th lord Saturn in 10th).

 

Please see further comments below:

 

 

jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish

wrote:

>

> PS: Just one last observation in support of this chart. We know

that

> Tibetan Buddhism is tantric by nature - Note Jupiter's

dispositorship

> of Rahu (in 8th) and consider again (this) Jupiter's aspect on

> 9th/10th lord.

 

With Gemini ascendant one could also find this indication: note 8th

lord Saturn in 9th house, still aspected by Jupiter who is still

dispositer of Rahu.

 

> Facts supported by this chart:

> *The Dalai Lama was forced into exile due to Chinese occupation of

> Tibet. He was, until then, both the spiritual and political leader

of

> Tibet.

>

> *YogaKaraka Saturn, lord of 9th/10th occupying moolatrikona sign in

> 10th is a sure testament of his leadership.

 

With Gemini, 9th lord Saturn in 9th house, still in moolatrikrona,

aspected by 10th lord Jupiter from 5th. Plus two royal planets Sun &

Mercury in lagna. This can also be a sure testament of his

leadership?

 

 

>

> *8th house, as we know, shows our enemies...enemies in battle as

> opposed to 6th house competitors/rivals/vices etc.. There can be no

> doubt of the significance of 8th lord's aspect on Saturn and the

> effect it had on his position as (all-over) leader of the Tibetan

> people.

 

As I wrote above, for Gemini ascendant Mars, the natural significator

of the 8th house matter of enemies in battle, as a functional &

natural malefic w/o aspect can be seen to be the disruptor of his

homeland & political leadership. It seems more like a Mars thing

then a Jupiter thing (even if Jupiter is 8th lord in the case of

Tauras lagna)?

 

>

> *1st/6th lord Venus conjunct 3rd lord Moon in 4th shows the great

> affection/attachment he has to his homeland. He works tirelessly to

> bring a resolution to the situation and none could doubt his

> motives

> and the initiative that drives him towards this goal.

 

I wouldn't consider him "attached" to anything, but his life and

purpose is definitely intertwined with that of his homeland. With

Gemini lagna this can be seen with 4th lord/lagnesh Mercury in Lagna

conjuct natural Atma karaka & 3rd lord Sun. He is initiatives are

motivated by compassion/love tempered with intellegence and non-

attachement as seen with Gemini lagna as Moon/Venus is in 3rd

aspected by 8th/9th lord Saturn.

 

>

> *4th lord Sun conjunct Ketu and aspected by 8th lord speaks again

> of

> the separation/exile from his homeland....etc, etc..

 

With Gemini ascendant this is much the same as 4th lord Mercury is

conjunct Ketu. Further the importance/prominance of this in his life

is seen as it occurs in the lagna.

 

If possible it would be interesting to take a look at the chart for

the previous incarnation of the Dalai Lama.

 

Take it easy,

Sean

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Namaste

 

Please see added comments -- this is a good discussion

 

jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Hello Sean,

>

> Interrupting my 'time off' to respond to your comments if I may :-)

>

> I ask you to consider Rahu in 7th house of marriage whilst 7thhouse

> is aspected by Mars? Rahu compels us towards the affairs of the

house he occupies (Gemini). Or... Renuncient Saturn aspecting both

Venus and 7th (Taurus).

>

 

Well, Renuciate Saturn aspects Venus no matter what the lagna. Sure

with Gemini lagna Rahu is in 7th, but that comes with Ketu in the

lagna. Ketu indicates renunciation & being in the lagna, taken with

the other features of the chart, can certainly indicate the

renunciate lifestyle. Also, Rahu in 7th does not have to be taken as

compelling one towards marriage. It can be taken as compelling one

to parterships in general, according to the other characteristics of

the chart. The Dalai Lama has certainly had made a lot of

partnerships, joining together with other very famous & foreign

people from many different backgrounds and religions (significations

of Rahu), but all for good causes (7th lord is Jupiter).

 

So, to me this can be seen as a support for Gemini Lagna as well.

 

> //If possible it would be interesting to take a look at the chart

for

> the previous incarnation of the Dalai Lama.//

>

> Pre-Natal Abode:

> Stronger of the luminaries occupying decanate of Jupiter etc...

> http://jyotishvidya.com/ch44.htm

>

> Ascent after death:

> Planets in 12th, 7th, 6th or 8th (in that order) indicate the abode

> after death. If no planet in 12th then look to 7th; no planet in

7th

> look to 6th etc... Taurus lagna gives Jupiter in 6th indicating

> heavenly abode. Gemini gives Rahu in 7th???

 

??? I'm not sure what all this is getting at -- I was really just

expressing curiosity about the previous Dalai Lama's chart. I'm not

sure if the birth data is available. The Dalai Lamas are all

considered to be the same leader reincarnating again and again.

 

>

> Moksha (Taurus):

> 4th (moksha) lord Sun, conjunct MokshaKaraka Ketu, aspecting 8th

> (moksha house). 8th (moksha) lord Jupiter aspecting both 12th

(moksha

> house) and moksha lord Sun. 12th (moksha) lord Mars aspecting both

> 8th and 12th moksha houses.

 

With Gemini:

 

8th & 12th lords in mutual aspect. Moksha karaka, ascendant,

ascendant lord, Atma Karaka, and 4th (moksha Lord) all conjuct in

lagna with Jupiter's aspect.

 

 

>

> //To me it looks like there are just as many supporting factors for

> the

> Gemini ascendant. From the Mercury, Sun, and Ketu in lagna one

> can get a sense of the leadership & communication/teaching in the

> spiritual field right off the bat. The aspect of Jupiter from 5th

> supports this further. Compare that with the Taurus lagna which

has

> no planets & no aspect. This I think is a significant difference

> between the 2 lagnas.//

>

> Gemini:

> Inimical 3rd lord Sun, conjunct lagna lord in lagna...what does

this

> tell you about the Ego??? Such an ego may well aspire to a position

> of authority. However, the Dalai Lama never fails to impress upon

> people his strong conviction that he (at the core of his being) is

> "just a simple monk". Might I remind members of Fraser's chart with

> SU/ME in 1st house. Sun in lagna speaks of issues regarding ego -

no

> doubt! This position can indicate a strong ego/strong sense of

> self-importance or (if weak/afflicted) can indicate problems

related

> to self-esteem etc..

 

There is a huge difference between the two charts.

 

In the Dalai Lama's chart the other qualities of the Sun -- like

charisma and generosity really stand out. The Dalai Lama definitely

has a "sunny" disposition. In fact before looking at any chart for

him, I thought for sure he'd either have Leo rising or else have the

Sun in the ascendant. Just look at him & his persona. This Sun

disposits the beautiful Moon/Venus conjuction and receives the aspect

of Jupiter.

 

 

>

> Taurus:

> Ascendant lord Venus, in nakshatra of Ketu, conjunct Moon in 4th

> (moksha house). His whole life has been spent in the pursuit of

> moksha...from a small child this has been the only life he's known.

> Look again at Sun conjunct Ketu. This moksha lord Sun, dispositor

of

> lagna lord, conjuncts lagna lord's star lord...can you see the

> compatible nature of this Sun and Ketu (both with the same intent -

> moksha), as opposed to the inherent conflict between MokshaKaraka

> Ketu and 3rd lord Sun in lagna?

 

Why is there an inherent conflict between 3rd lord Sun and Moksha

Karaka in the lagna?

 

It make sense to me -- his sprirituality is at the forefront of his

life (Ketu in lagna) and is very public under the full light of the

Sun. And his motives & initiatives are completely related to his

spirituality.

 

Also it can be interpretted like Ketu tames/eclipses the ego (Sun),

while the Sun makes visible what would otherwise be a

private/secluded spiritual practice (Ketu).

 

>

> 2nd house governs education and educators (oral expression of

> knowledge and so forth). Consider 5th lord(mantras) conjunct such

> moksha indicators (SU/KE) in 2nd house...and aspected by moksha

lord

> Jupiter.

 

For Gemini lagna, consider:

 

Lagnesh Me, as natural significator of oral communication and as 4th

lord (Moksha), in own house, in lagna aspected by Jupiter from 5th

and conjuct Moksha karaka Ketu . While 2nd lord Moon is conjuct 5th

(mantras)/12th (moksha) lord Venus in mutual aspect with 9th lord

Saturn who is also 8th (Moksha) lord.

 

 

>

> //Plus if you look at the 5th house of disciples with Gemini

acendant

> Jupiter is there which would indicate abundance, while with Taurus

> lagna you have malefic 12th/7th lord Mars there w/o any aspect which

> would indicate dearth. Also consider the 5th house indication of

> blessings from previous life.//

>

> No! Jupiter in 5th is not such a favourable placement for

> children...can in fact deny children (unless there are favourable

> aspects). Children BTW means all children including disciples,

> students etc..

 

Really, I'm not familiar with this principle? It seems Jupiter in

the 5th would indicate an abundance of disciples if not children,

also 5th lord Venus conjunct Moon seems support this.

 

While, for Taurus, 12th lord Mars in the 5th would indicate a

lack/loss of children/disciples, Mars being unaspected would be a

completely malefic influence on the fifth house.

 

 

>

> Consider moolatrikona as the stronger influence (always). 7th lord

in

> 5th (gemini). Or...

> 12th lord in 5th (taurus). Because of his exile, Buddhism has

spread

> all around the globe...followers/disciples from many countries.

Many

> of these followers are also dedicated teachers - 5th lord in 2nd.

 

His followers being dedicated teachers seems to also support Jupiter

in the 5th. Also 5th lord aspected by 9th lord Saturn from 9th.

 

And to me the nature of his disciples seems to be more akin to the

qualities of Jupiter than that of Mars.

 

 

>

> Another important point regarding gemini is 10th lord Jupiter's

> position in 8th from 10th. This can indicate changes in

career/status

> (fall from position). In spite of the occupation of his homeland

and

> subsequent exile, he always has been and always will be the Dalai

> Lama...no fall from position is possible.

 

Well, to me the occupation of his homeland and his subsequent exile

CAN certainly be seen as a "fall from position" as he is no longer

the official political leader of his country.

 

> Although we can certainly

> see the influence of invading army (aspect of 8th lord Jupiter for

> Taurus), his position as Dalai Lama is fixed solidly with 10th lord

> Saturn in 10th. Compare this with Saddam Hussein's chart with

Saturn

> in 10th conjunct 5th lord Venus. He rose to great heights during

> Venus dasa but his fall from position has been just as dramatic.

 

There is definitely a some similarity between the two cases: in

Saddam's case it was the USA who dislodged him from his political

office & occupied his country; for the Dalai Lama it was the Chinese

who did the same.

 

And it is the Dalai Lama's position as spiritual head (9th lord in

9th) that has remained fixed; his political office (10th) has not

remained fixed & rather has been forcibly taken from him (apect of

Mars on 10th).

 

So, actually, I can see this as further support for the Gemini

lagna... around and round we go :)

 

Thank you for this great discussion & for interrupting your break, I

have also thrown myself fully into this discussion as evidenced by

this 1:46 AM (local time) post. I'll be paying for it later

today. :)

 

Take it easy,

Sean

 

>

> Providing the time is correct Hussein was running MA-RA-RA dasa at

> time of US invasion (Mar 20 2003). Transit Mars was aspecting 10th.

> Rahu & Saturn were transiting 12th in sign of Venus, whilst Venus

was

> transiting 8th in sign of Saturn etc..

>

> Saddam Hussein

> Apr 28 1937 (08:55)

> Tikrit, Iraq

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> jyotish-vidya

> ______________________________

>

> -

> "Sean Patrick Kelly" <toosean

> <jyotish-vidya>

> Friday, March 17, 2006 12:39 AM

> Re: Dalai Lama's lagna - Gemini?

>

>

> Namaste

>

> Thanks to the links provided by Rui, I was able to take a quick look

> at the chart.

>

> To me it looks like there are just as many supporting factors for

the

> Gemini ascendant. From the Mercury, Sun, and Ketu in lagna one

> can get a sense of the leadership & communication/teaching in the

> spiritual field right off the bat. The aspect of Jupiter from 5th

> supports this further. Compare that with the Taurus lagna which

has

> no planets & no aspect. This I think is a significant difference

> between the 2 lagnas.

>

> Plus if you look at the 5th house of disciples with Gemini acendant

> Jupiter is there which would indicate abundance, while with Taurus

> lagna you have malefic 12th/7th lord Mars there w/o any aspect which

> would indicate dearth. Also consider the 5th house indication of

> blessings from previous life.

>

> The trouble to homeland can be seen using the Gemini ascendant as

the

> natural & functional malefic (11th & 6th lord) Mars is stationed in

> the 4th house of home w/o any other aspect which indicates many

> difficulties and obstacles, violence associated with home. While

> most consider him to be the rightful leader of his country & people

> (10th lord Jupiter in 5th), the forceful obstruction to his actual

> political leadership of his country can be seen by the Mars aspect

on

> 10th. The large importance of the troubled homeland to this life

> can be seen by 4th lord Mercury in the ascendant.

>

> Plus the spiritual/leadership qualities are still there for the

> Gemini ascendant: 9th lord Saturn in 9th aspected by 10th lord

> Jupiter from 5th.

>

> At the heart of his sprititual tradition is compassion &

mindfulness

> with unattachement -- this may be indicated by the mutual aspect

> between the Moon/Venus conjuction and 9th lord Saturn which is

there

> for either the Gemini acendant (9th lord Saturn in 9th house) or

> Taurus Ascendant (9th lord Saturn in 10th).

>

> Please see further comments below:

>

>

> jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > PS: Just one last observation in support of this chart. We know

> that

> > Tibetan Buddhism is tantric by nature - Note Jupiter's

> dispositorship

> > of Rahu (in 8th) and consider again (this) Jupiter's aspect on

> > 9th/10th lord.

>

> With Gemini ascendant one could also find this indication: note 8th

> lord Saturn in 9th house, still aspected by Jupiter who is still

> dispositer of Rahu.

>

> > Facts supported by this chart:

> > *The Dalai Lama was forced into exile due to Chinese occupation of

> > Tibet. He was, until then, both the spiritual and political leader

> of

> > Tibet.

> >

> > *YogaKaraka Saturn, lord of 9th/10th occupying moolatrikona sign

in

> > 10th is a sure testament of his leadership.

>

> With Gemini, 9th lord Saturn in 9th house, still in moolatrikrona,

> aspected by 10th lord Jupiter from 5th. Plus two royal planets Sun

&

> Mercury in lagna. This can also be a sure testament of his

> leadership?

>

>

> >

> > *8th house, as we know, shows our enemies...enemies in battle as

> > opposed to 6th house competitors/rivals/vices etc.. There can be

no

> > doubt of the significance of 8th lord's aspect on Saturn and the

> > effect it had on his position as (all-over) leader of the Tibetan

> > people.

>

> As I wrote above, for Gemini ascendant Mars, the natural

significator

> of the 8th house matter of enemies in battle, as a functional &

> natural malefic w/o aspect can be seen to be the disruptor of his

> homeland & political leadership. It seems more like a Mars thing

> then a Jupiter thing (even if Jupiter is 8th lord in the case of

> Tauras lagna)?

>

> >

> > *1st/6th lord Venus conjunct 3rd lord Moon in 4th shows the great

> > affection/attachment he has to his homeland. He works tirelessly

to

> > bring a resolution to the situation and none could doubt his

> > motives

> > and the initiative that drives him towards this goal.

>

> I wouldn't consider him "attached" to anything, but his life and

> purpose is definitely intertwined with that of his homeland. With

> Gemini lagna this can be seen with 4th lord/lagnesh Mercury in Lagna

> conjuct natural Atma karaka & 3rd lord Sun. He is initiatives are

> motivated by compassion/love tempered with intellegence and non-

> attachement as seen with Gemini lagna as Moon/Venus is in 3rd

> aspected by 8th/9th lord Saturn.

>

> >

> > *4th lord Sun conjunct Ketu and aspected by 8th lord speaks again

> > of

> > the separation/exile from his homeland....etc, etc..

>

> With Gemini ascendant this is much the same as 4th lord Mercury is

> conjunct Ketu. Further the importance/prominance of this in his

life

> is seen as it occurs in the lagna.

>

> If possible it would be interesting to take a look at the chart for

> the previous incarnation of the Dalai Lama.

>

> Take it easy,

> Sean

>

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Shaun,

 

//??? I'm not sure what all this is getting at -- I was really just

expressing curiosity about the previous Dalai Lama's chart. I'm not

sure if the birth data is available. The Dalai Lamas are all

considered to be the same leader reincarnating again and again.//

 

The 13th Dalai Lama (Thubten Gyatso) was born Feb 12 1876. Died Dec

17 1933. It might be an interesting exercise to look at his chart

also. No T.O.B. is available. But this can be more practice in

rectification

 

//Well, Renuciate Saturn aspects Venus no matter what the lagna.//

 

Saturn aspecting Venus(spouse), 7th(married life) and 12th(pleasures

of the bed) speaks strongly of celibacy... Saturns nakshatra lord

Rahu occupies 8th whilst his dispositor (Jupiter) occupies 12th from

7th. Denial of marriage/married life is clear in this chart.

 

//Sure with Gemini lagna Rahu is in 7th, but that comes with Ketu in

the lagna.//

 

So? I too have Ketu in lagna (lagna aspected by 12th lord Jupiter)

giving a strong leaning towards moksha. However married four times

with Rahu in 7th.

 

//Ketu indicates renunciation & being in the lagna, taken with

the other features of the chart, can certainly indicate the

renunciate lifestyle.//

 

Certainly Mercury owning 4th increases the tendancy towards moksha.

However, conjunct malefic Sun (etc)...think about it!

 

//Also, Rahu in 7th does not have to be taken as

compelling one towards marriage.//

 

Rahu in 7th with his dispositor in 5th (in sign of Venus)...C'mon

Sean! For me too Rahu's dispositor occupies sign of Venus.

 

//In the Dalai Lama's chart the other qualities of the Sun -- like

charisma and generosity really stand out. The Dalai Lama definitely

has a "sunny" disposition. In fact before looking at any chart for

him, I thought for sure he'd either have Leo rising or else have the

Sun in the ascendant. Just look at him & his persona. This Sun

disposits the beautiful Moon/Venus conjuction and receives the aspect

of Jupiter.//

 

Sun, owning 3rd (trishadaya) is a functional malefic for this chart

Shean. Conjunct lagna lord is detrimental to the health of the

native. Jupiter, owning 7th/10th, is also malefic to this Ascendant.

Apart from the normal colds/viruses and such that afflict all of us

from time to time, the Dalai Lama enjoys good health. Believe me when

I tell you Ketu in lagna is not good for one's general health and

well-being - add to that the influence of trishadaya lord Sun...

 

//Really, I'm not familiar with this principle? It seems Jupiter in

the 5th would indicate an abundance of disciples if not children,

also 5th lord Venus conjunct Moon seems support this.//

 

Well it's understandable that you're not familiar with the dictum

that the karaka can harm his own house - you've only been studying a

short while:-)

The rule is that a planet placed in the house for which it is the

natural karaka can harm the significations of that house i.e. Jupiter

in 5th harms children, Mars in 3rd harms siblings and so forth...

 

//Well, to me the occupation of his homeland and his subsequent exile

CAN certainly be seen as a "fall from position" as he is no longer

the official political leader of his country.//

 

He is and always will be the Dalai Lama...no other occupation, no

loss of that position is ever likely to happen. The invasion of his

country and subsequent exile from his homeland are clearly seen with

Taurus lagna.

 

//Thank you for this great discussion & for interrupting your break,

I

have also thrown myself fully into this discussion as evidenced by

this 1:46 AM (local time) post. I'll be paying for it later

today. :)//

 

The discrepancy between softwares (regarding time zone) and the doubt

as to how much before sunrise he was born aside, I'm fairly confident

that he has Taurus lagna.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

jyotish-vidya

______________________________

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