Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hello to all Group members, As presented on the first week Study group table in the database, we have three charts presented: John Forbes Nash as the main chart with birth time and then Dr Singh's chart with Event times and in the "other Chart" category, we have William Minor. In the second week, we have cont'd our study on Mental Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia with two additional charts. FIRST: I would like to make a note to all and that is whatever chart is up for Study is also listed and one can find in the Astro chart table or the Reference table on the database. Please make use of the information gathered for complete understanding and delineation. A few days ago, I spoke of Dr Singh's Chart and his events since he was an Assoc professor at the UN of CA. (USA) Berkeley, in the sixties and then his retreat to his homeland in Bihar , India in 1973, where he is still located and functioning today. His biography and recent Interview is note worthy into the mind of an extraordinary man. Now we come to our third presentation of the first week and that is of William Minor. His biography speaks for itself and one would be guided to take the event of shooting an innocent person who he felt was dangerous to himself as a Chart to erect in comparison with Mr. Nash (Our main feature) for comparison in one's paranoia. In the second week's analysis that is cont'd from the first, we have two charts to compare for Mental Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia. The first is a young lady who goes by "Artsyflower" and then Lionel Aldridge, the all time great in football, known for his defensive end tactics and advocate for the mentally ill and homeless after he battled with Schizophrenia for twenty years and lived most of that time as a homeless person. His work to spread the word of Schizophrenia was his major claim in the last 7 years of his life before his succumbed to heart failure and obesity. Tonight, I would like to feature Artsyflower, for her very new diagnosis of Schizophrenia this past end of Oct 2005. I have had the great pleasure of personal being in contact with her through email the last few days. Below, is a very personal account that she relayed to me that is not in its detail on her very progressive and enlightening blog. WE struck a wonderful correspondence until I asked her to verify her birth time - Unfortunately, bout ever so understandable, her response was, as most paranoid Schizophrenia people in the troughs of being newly diagnosed, was, "I can't give you that information. I don't know who you are." However, if member take the time to check out her very personal blog, one will find what real Schizophrenia is and with it, her very real and extraordinary "gifted, artwork and poems. Also, she has made available on her blog resources for those that are interested, links to sites about Schizophrenia. Below, please find with permission, a very person email from Artysflower to me, to give everyone on the Jyotish-Vidya forum, a very real look into the very real world of how Schizophrenia can develop in ones life. "I was born on august 16, 1986 i was a pre-mature. i was born at holland community hospital. I was a sickly child. I had seizure's until i was 7 or 8 years old. when i was 8, i had a flu that attcked my brain, dont remember what its called, but i had to re-learn everything. how to walk, talk, everything. I started to feel different when i was in 8th grade. I started having heart issues and i kept on hearing these voices at the same time. but they were nice to me so i didnt see a problem. When i was in my senior year i started to hear them more frequently, but i didn't say anything because i didn't know how people would re- act to this. After i graduated it got worse more and more, i started seeing people who arent there, and they would follow me where ever i went. I started at Baker in muskegon in september of 06. In october i was sent to Pine Rest in gradrapids. i was there for two weeks the first time, and one week the second time. I have been dealing with my illness for 4 months now. Art and poetry where the only thing i knew how to express myself. My dad is bipolar, and Schizophrenia also runs in his family." Need I say more, accept the fact, that one has event dates to work with in comparison to John Nash's chart as others presented. I will now focus on Lionel Aldridge char that has been displayed for compassion in the "Others Charts" section for study. Lionel was a very loved person and very accomplished in his field of sports. Please see his birth data and biography not only on the Study group lost but also found in the "Reference Charts" table. He was one of a kind, even in his most dire state of mental illness, before he could effectively get a handle on his disease. Once found and treated. He went on to be one of those few who can bring light to his plight and enlighten others. He was a very engaging speaker and advocate for mental Illness and Homelessness and Schizophrenia before his untimely death in 1998 due to heart and obesity. Please have a very real look into this man's special gift to the world. His sister is in the works of writing a biography of him. Hopefully, in that story will be details of his birth time. In the meantime, we can only go by his events of his life and endeavors. Finally: there is one more observation that I would like to put forward, and that is where the placement of planets are in our perspective charts presented in week one and two. Mind you, that just because planets are situated in the same signs and houses of others does not mean an automatic tic correlation. What it does present for group contemplation and study is the coincidence of where planets are placed in the Rasi. With that thought may I present my initial finds for comment and evaluation: In the five charts presented for study in week one and now two we have five charts for comparison as to how the planets are placed in the Rasi. Artsyflower, Lionel Aldridge, and Dr. Singh, all have ME SU together in a sign. Mercury stands alone in William Minor's chart as well as John Nash's. Ma Mo is together in a sign in Artsyflower and John Nash's chart; Mo stand alone in Dr. Singh's and RA MO are together in a sign in Lionel Aldridge and William Minor's charts. MA stands alone in Lionel Aldridge's chart. As always, Uttara p.s. additional charts will be added for third week review when details are verified. In the meantime, Five charts to study and comment on are enough, in my opinion, to give the group study a wealth of information to analysis and comment on for guite a while. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 --- Dear Uttara, Really appreciate how well you are doing this study and bringing forth some common features. I wish we had some way to ascertain the time of birth in these cases. Do you know the place of birth of "Artsyflower" ? Regards, Neena In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Hello to all Group members, > > As presented on the first week Study group table in the database, we > have three charts presented: John Forbes Nash as the main chart > with birth time and then Dr Singh's chart with Event times and in > the "other Chart" category, we have William Minor. > > In the second week, we have cont'd our study on Mental > Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia with two additional charts. > > FIRST: I would like to make a note to all and that is whatever chart > is up for Study is also listed and one can find in the Astro chart > table or the Reference table on the database. Please make use of > the information gathered for complete understanding and delineation. > > A few days ago, I spoke of Dr Singh's Chart and his events since he > was an Assoc professor at the UN of CA. (USA) Berkeley, in the > sixties and then his retreat to his homeland in Bihar , India in > 1973, where he is still located and functioning today. His > biography and recent Interview is note worthy into the mind of an > extraordinary man. > > Now we come to our third presentation of the first week and that is > of William Minor. His biography speaks for itself and one would be > guided to take the event of shooting an innocent person who he felt > was dangerous to himself as a Chart to erect in comparison with Mr. > Nash (Our main feature) for comparison in one's paranoia. > > In the second week's analysis that is cont'd from the first, we have > two charts to compare for Mental Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia. > > The first is a young lady who goes by "Artsyflower" and then Lionel > Aldridge, the all time great in football, known for his defensive > end tactics and advocate for the mentally ill and homeless after he > battled with Schizophrenia for twenty years and lived most of that > time as a homeless person. His work to spread the word of > Schizophrenia was his major claim in the last 7 years of his life > before his succumbed to heart failure and obesity. > > Tonight, I would like to feature Artsyflower, for her very new > diagnosis of Schizophrenia this past end of Oct 2005. > > I have had the great pleasure of personal being in contact with her > through email the last few days. Below, is a very personal account > that she relayed to me that is not in its detail on her very > progressive and enlightening blog. WE struck a wonderful > correspondence until I asked her to verify her birth time - > Unfortunately, bout ever so understandable, her response was, as > most paranoid Schizophrenia people in the troughs of being newly > diagnosed, was, "I can't give you that information. I don't know who > you are." > > However, if member take the time to check out her very personal > blog, one will find what real Schizophrenia is and with it, her very > real and extraordinary "gifted, artwork and poems. Also, she has > made available on her blog resources for those that are interested, > links to sites about Schizophrenia. > > Below, please find with permission, a very person email from > Artysflower to me, to give everyone on the Jyotish-Vidya forum, a > very real look into the very real world of how Schizophrenia can > develop in ones life. > > > "I was born on august 16, 1986 > i was a pre-mature. > i was born at holland community hospital. > > I was a sickly child. I had seizure's until i was 7 or 8 years old. > when i was 8, i had a flu that attcked my brain, dont remember what > its called, but i had to re-learn everything. how to walk, talk, > everything. I started to feel different when i was in 8th grade. I > started having heart issues and i kept on hearing these voices at > the same time. but they were nice to me so i didnt see a problem. > When i was in my senior year i started to hear them more frequently, > but i didn't say anything because i didn't know how people would re- > act to this. After i graduated it got worse more and more, i started > seeing people who arent there, and they would follow me where ever i > went. I started at Baker in muskegon in september of 06. In october > i was sent to Pine Rest in gradrapids. i was there for two weeks the > first time, and one week the second time. I have been dealing with > my illness for 4 months now. Art and poetry where the only thing i > knew how to express myself. My dad is bipolar, and Schizophrenia > also runs in his family." > > Need I say more, accept the fact, that one has event dates to work > with in comparison to John Nash's chart as others presented. > > I will now focus on Lionel Aldridge char that has been displayed for > compassion in the "Others Charts" section for study. Lionel was a > very loved person and very accomplished in his field of sports. > Please see his birth data and biography not only on the Study group > lost but also found in the "Reference Charts" table. > > He was one of a kind, even in his most dire state of mental illness, > before he could effectively get a handle on his disease. Once found > and treated. He went on to be one of those few who can bring light > to his plight and enlighten others. He was a very engaging speaker > and advocate for mental Illness and Homelessness and Schizophrenia > before his untimely death in 1998 due to heart and obesity. > > Please have a very real look into this man's special gift to the > world. His sister is in the works of writing a biography of him. > Hopefully, in that story will be details of his birth time. In the > meantime, we can only go by his events of his life and endeavors. > > Finally: there is one more observation that I would like to put > forward, and that is where the placement of planets are in our > perspective charts presented in week one and two. > > Mind you, that just because planets are situated in the same signs > and houses of others does not mean an automatic tic correlation. > What it does present for group contemplation and study is the > coincidence of where planets are placed in the Rasi. > > With that thought may I present my initial finds for comment and > evaluation: > > In the five charts presented for study in week one and now two we > have five charts for comparison as to how the planets are placed in > the Rasi. > > Artsyflower, Lionel Aldridge, and Dr. Singh, all have ME SU > together in a sign. Mercury stands alone in William Minor's chart > as well as John Nash's. Ma Mo is together in a sign in Artsyflower > and John Nash's chart; Mo stand alone in Dr. Singh's and RA MO are > together in a sign in Lionel Aldridge and William Minor's charts. > MA stands alone in Lionel Aldridge's chart. > > As always, > > Uttara > > p.s. additional charts will be added for third week review when > details are verified. In the meantime, Five charts to study and > comment on are enough, in my opinion, to give the group study a > wealth of information to analysis and comment on for guite a while. > :-) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Hi Neena, Yes, Artsyflower's birth place, is Holland, Michigan. It is displayed in the biography under "Comparision Charts" in the Study week table and also in the Reference Charts birth data. Artsyflower was also born at the Holland Community Hospital in Holland, Mich. Always, Uttara jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako wrote: > > --- > Dear Uttara, > > Really appreciate how well you are doing this study and bringing > forth some common features. > > I wish we had some way to ascertain the time of birth in these cases. > Do you know the place of birth of "Artsyflower" ? > > Regards, > Neena > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > Hello to all Group members, > > > > As presented on the first week Study group table in the database, > we > > have three charts presented: John Forbes Nash as the main chart > > with birth time and then Dr Singh's chart with Event times and in > > the "other Chart" category, we have William Minor. > > > > In the second week, we have cont'd our study on Mental > > Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia with two additional charts. > > > > FIRST: I would like to make a note to all and that is whatever > chart > > is up for Study is also listed and one can find in the Astro chart > > table or the Reference table on the database. Please make use of > > the information gathered for complete understanding and > delineation. > > > > A few days ago, I spoke of Dr Singh's Chart and his events since > he > > was an Assoc professor at the UN of CA. (USA) Berkeley, in the > > sixties and then his retreat to his homeland in Bihar , India in > > 1973, where he is still located and functioning today. His > > biography and recent Interview is note worthy into the mind of an > > extraordinary man. > > > > Now we come to our third presentation of the first week and that > is > > of William Minor. His biography speaks for itself and one would > be > > guided to take the event of shooting an innocent person who he > felt > > was dangerous to himself as a Chart to erect in comparison with > Mr. > > Nash (Our main feature) for comparison in one's paranoia. > > > > In the second week's analysis that is cont'd from the first, we > have > > two charts to compare for Mental Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia. > > > > The first is a young lady who goes by "Artsyflower" and then > Lionel > > Aldridge, the all time great in football, known for his defensive > > end tactics and advocate for the mentally ill and homeless after > he > > battled with Schizophrenia for twenty years and lived most of that > > time as a homeless person. His work to spread the word of > > Schizophrenia was his major claim in the last 7 years of his life > > before his succumbed to heart failure and obesity. > > > > Tonight, I would like to feature Artsyflower, for her very new > > diagnosis of Schizophrenia this past end of Oct 2005. > > > > I have had the great pleasure of personal being in contact with > her > > through email the last few days. Below, is a very personal > account > > that she relayed to me that is not in its detail on her very > > progressive and enlightening blog. WE struck a wonderful > > correspondence until I asked her to verify her birth time - > > Unfortunately, bout ever so understandable, her response was, as > > most paranoid Schizophrenia people in the troughs of being newly > > diagnosed, was, "I can't give you that information. I don't know > who > > you are." > > > > However, if member take the time to check out her very personal > > blog, one will find what real Schizophrenia is and with it, her > very > > real and extraordinary "gifted, artwork and poems. Also, she has > > made available on her blog resources for those that are > interested, > > links to sites about Schizophrenia. > > > > Below, please find with permission, a very person email from > > Artysflower to me, to give everyone on the Jyotish-Vidya forum, a > > very real look into the very real world of how Schizophrenia can > > develop in ones life. > > > > > > "I was born on august 16, 1986 > > i was a pre-mature. > > i was born at holland community hospital. > > > > I was a sickly child. I had seizure's until i was 7 or 8 years > old. > > when i was 8, i had a flu that attcked my brain, dont remember > what > > its called, but i had to re-learn everything. how to walk, talk, > > everything. I started to feel different when i was in 8th grade. I > > started having heart issues and i kept on hearing these voices at > > the same time. but they were nice to me so i didnt see a problem. > > When i was in my senior year i started to hear them more > frequently, > > but i didn't say anything because i didn't know how people would > re- > > act to this. After i graduated it got worse more and more, i > started > > seeing people who arent there, and they would follow me where ever > i > > went. I started at Baker in muskegon in september of 06. In > october > > i was sent to Pine Rest in gradrapids. i was there for two weeks > the > > first time, and one week the second time. I have been dealing with > > my illness for 4 months now. Art and poetry where the only thing i > > knew how to express myself. My dad is bipolar, and Schizophrenia > > also runs in his family." > > > > Need I say more, accept the fact, that one has event dates to work > > with in comparison to John Nash's chart as others presented. > > > > I will now focus on Lionel Aldridge char that has been displayed > for > > compassion in the "Others Charts" section for study. Lionel was a > > very loved person and very accomplished in his field of sports. > > Please see his birth data and biography not only on the Study > group > > lost but also found in the "Reference Charts" table. > > > > He was one of a kind, even in his most dire state of mental > illness, > > before he could effectively get a handle on his disease. Once > found > > and treated. He went on to be one of those few who can bring light > > to his plight and enlighten others. He was a very engaging > speaker > > and advocate for mental Illness and Homelessness and Schizophrenia > > before his untimely death in 1998 due to heart and obesity. > > > > Please have a very real look into this man's special gift to the > > world. His sister is in the works of writing a biography of him. > > Hopefully, in that story will be details of his birth time. In the > > meantime, we can only go by his events of his life and endeavors. > > > > Finally: there is one more observation that I would like to put > > forward, and that is where the placement of planets are in our > > perspective charts presented in week one and two. > > > > Mind you, that just because planets are situated in the same signs > > and houses of others does not mean an automatic tic correlation. > > What it does present for group contemplation and study is the > > coincidence of where planets are placed in the Rasi. > > > > With that thought may I present my initial finds for comment and > > evaluation: > > > > In the five charts presented for study in week one and now two we > > have five charts for comparison as to how the planets are placed > in > > the Rasi. > > > > Artsyflower, Lionel Aldridge, and Dr. Singh, all have ME SU > > together in a sign. Mercury stands alone in William Minor's chart > > as well as John Nash's. Ma Mo is together in a sign in > Artsyflower > > and John Nash's chart; Mo stand alone in Dr. Singh's and RA MO are > > together in a sign in Lionel Aldridge and William Minor's > charts. > > MA stands alone in Lionel Aldridge's chart. > > > > As always, > > > > Uttara > > > > p.s. additional charts will be added for third week review when > > details are verified. In the meantime, Five charts to study and > > comment on are enough, in my opinion, to give the group study a > > wealth of information to analysis and comment on for guite a while. > > :-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 --- Dear Uttara, I have been going through the data given but find it very difficult to say much in the absence of the time of birth. In some cases the Moon also changes signs during the course of the day. As ever, Neena In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Hi Neena, > > Yes, Artsyflower's birth place, is Holland, Michigan. It is > displayed in the biography under "Comparision Charts" in the Study > week table and also in the Reference Charts birth data. Artsyflower > was also born at the Holland Community Hospital in Holland, Mich. > > Always, > > Uttara > > > jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako@> wrote: > > > > --- > > Dear Uttara, > > > > Really appreciate how well you are doing this study and bringing > > forth some common features. > > > > I wish we had some way to ascertain the time of birth in these > cases. > > Do you know the place of birth of "Artsyflower" ? > > > > Regards, > > Neena > > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello to all Group members, > > > > > > As presented on the first week Study group table in the > database, > > we > > > have three charts presented: John Forbes Nash as the main chart > > > with birth time and then Dr Singh's chart with Event times and > in > > > the "other Chart" category, we have William Minor. > > > > > > In the second week, we have cont'd our study on Mental > > > Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia with two additional charts. > > > > > > FIRST: I would like to make a note to all and that is whatever > > chart > > > is up for Study is also listed and one can find in the Astro > chart > > > table or the Reference table on the database. Please make use > of > > > the information gathered for complete understanding and > > delineation. > > > > > > A few days ago, I spoke of Dr Singh's Chart and his events since > > he > > > was an Assoc professor at the UN of CA. (USA) Berkeley, in the > > > sixties and then his retreat to his homeland in Bihar , India in > > > 1973, where he is still located and functioning today. His > > > biography and recent Interview is note worthy into the mind of > an > > > extraordinary man. > > > > > > Now we come to our third presentation of the first week and that > > is > > > of William Minor. His biography speaks for itself and one would > > be > > > guided to take the event of shooting an innocent person who he > > felt > > > was dangerous to himself as a Chart to erect in comparison with > > Mr. > > > Nash (Our main feature) for comparison in one's paranoia. > > > > > > In the second week's analysis that is cont'd from the first, we > > have > > > two charts to compare for Mental Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia. > > > > > > The first is a young lady who goes by "Artsyflower" and then > > Lionel > > > Aldridge, the all time great in football, known for his > defensive > > > end tactics and advocate for the mentally ill and homeless after > > he > > > battled with Schizophrenia for twenty years and lived most of > that > > > time as a homeless person. His work to spread the word of > > > Schizophrenia was his major claim in the last 7 years of his > life > > > before his succumbed to heart failure and obesity. > > > > > > Tonight, I would like to feature Artsyflower, for her very new > > > diagnosis of Schizophrenia this past end of Oct 2005. > > > > > > I have had the great pleasure of personal being in contact with > > her > > > through email the last few days. Below, is a very personal > > account > > > that she relayed to me that is not in its detail on her very > > > progressive and enlightening blog. WE struck a wonderful > > > correspondence until I asked her to verify her birth time - > > > Unfortunately, bout ever so understandable, her response was, as > > > most paranoid Schizophrenia people in the troughs of being newly > > > diagnosed, was, "I can't give you that information. I don't know > > who > > > you are." > > > > > > However, if member take the time to check out her very personal > > > blog, one will find what real Schizophrenia is and with it, her > > very > > > real and extraordinary "gifted, artwork and poems. Also, she > has > > > made available on her blog resources for those that are > > interested, > > > links to sites about Schizophrenia. > > > > > > Below, please find with permission, a very person email from > > > Artysflower to me, to give everyone on the Jyotish-Vidya forum, > a > > > very real look into the very real world of how Schizophrenia can > > > develop in ones life. > > > > > > > > > "I was born on august 16, 1986 > > > i was a pre-mature. > > > i was born at holland community hospital. > > > > > > I was a sickly child. I had seizure's until i was 7 or 8 years > > old. > > > when i was 8, i had a flu that attcked my brain, dont remember > > what > > > its called, but i had to re-learn everything. how to walk, talk, > > > everything. I started to feel different when i was in 8th grade. > I > > > started having heart issues and i kept on hearing these voices > at > > > the same time. but they were nice to me so i didnt see a > problem. > > > When i was in my senior year i started to hear them more > > frequently, > > > but i didn't say anything because i didn't know how people would > > re- > > > act to this. After i graduated it got worse more and more, i > > started > > > seeing people who arent there, and they would follow me where > ever > > i > > > went. I started at Baker in muskegon in september of 06. In > > october > > > i was sent to Pine Rest in gradrapids. i was there for two weeks > > the > > > first time, and one week the second time. I have been dealing > with > > > my illness for 4 months now. Art and poetry where the only thing > i > > > knew how to express myself. My dad is bipolar, and > Schizophrenia > > > also runs in his family." > > > > > > Need I say more, accept the fact, that one has event dates to > work > > > with in comparison to John Nash's chart as others presented. > > > > > > I will now focus on Lionel Aldridge char that has been displayed > > for > > > compassion in the "Others Charts" section for study. Lionel was > a > > > very loved person and very accomplished in his field of sports. > > > Please see his birth data and biography not only on the Study > > group > > > lost but also found in the "Reference Charts" table. > > > > > > He was one of a kind, even in his most dire state of mental > > illness, > > > before he could effectively get a handle on his disease. Once > > found > > > and treated. He went on to be one of those few who can bring > light > > > to his plight and enlighten others. He was a very engaging > > speaker > > > and advocate for mental Illness and Homelessness and > Schizophrenia > > > before his untimely death in 1998 due to heart and obesity. > > > > > > Please have a very real look into this man's special gift to the > > > world. His sister is in the works of writing a biography of > him. > > > Hopefully, in that story will be details of his birth time. In > the > > > meantime, we can only go by his events of his life and endeavors. > > > > > > Finally: there is one more observation that I would like to put > > > forward, and that is where the placement of planets are in our > > > perspective charts presented in week one and two. > > > > > > Mind you, that just because planets are situated in the same > signs > > > and houses of others does not mean an automatic tic > correlation. > > > What it does present for group contemplation and study is the > > > coincidence of where planets are placed in the Rasi. > > > > > > With that thought may I present my initial finds for comment and > > > evaluation: > > > > > > In the five charts presented for study in week one and now two > we > > > have five charts for comparison as to how the planets are placed > > in > > > the Rasi. > > > > > > Artsyflower, Lionel Aldridge, and Dr. Singh, all have ME SU > > > together in a sign. Mercury stands alone in William Minor's > chart > > > as well as John Nash's. Ma Mo is together in a sign in > > Artsyflower > > > and John Nash's chart; Mo stand alone in Dr. Singh's and RA MO > are > > > together in a sign in Lionel Aldridge and William Minor's > > charts. > > > MA stands alone in Lionel Aldridge's chart. > > > > > > As always, > > > > > > Uttara > > > > > > p.s. additional charts will be added for third week review when > > > details are verified. In the meantime, Five charts to study > and > > > comment on are enough, in my opinion, to give the group study a > > > wealth of information to analysis and comment on for guite a > while. > > > :-) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Hi Neena, Yes, you bring up a very valid point. I have found a few different ways of using charts for comparison - that allow one to come as close as one can to compare with a main chart with a birth time. BPHS also encourages the following techniques. Maybe the following will help. 1. I generally take the day of both and cast then at 00:00:00, or if one wants, they can casts the charts at 00:05:00. Without any hour deduction for DST or War Time or other. This gives the chart what the cosmos were displaying their planets at the time for the new day. 2. I check to see the degree of the Moon and then check the movement of the Moon for the day. If it changes then I draw up two charts. One at 00:00:00 and another precisely when the moon changed for that day. 3. If a chart has verified event dates, with or without times noted. I cast a chart for the day of the event. For Example: with Dr. Singh, I casted a chart for his birth date. And then a year chart (solar return - Tajaka) for the year he returned to Bihar, India.. In his case too, I drew up a chart for the date of his interview last November. For Artsyflower, I drew up a chart for birth date and a chart for her admittance into the hospital last Oct when she was diagnosed Schizophrenia For William Minor, I drew up a chart for his birth date and one for the day he shot and killed a person, which ultimately identified him insane and institutionalized him until his death - but where he did most of his extraordinary later work with the Oxford Dictionary. For Lionel Aldridge, I drew up a chart for his birth date and then a year chart for his onset of illness and then a chart on the day of his death at the hour of his death noted. Where the moon changed on any of the birth dates, I drew up those charts too, noting the time and degree of the Moon.. Another thing I do, is, I compare charts with unidentified birth times by their placement of Sun to a chart that has a known birth time. Again, is the Sun close to changing to another sign for that day, I check that too. But, for the most part, The Sun represents the Day of birth as an Asc. So I then interpret both from the Sun as I would the Moon for both charts as the ASC Then I also take another way of looking at charts. like a transparency, I take the valid chart of the person with a specific birth time and over lay it with another chart (without birth time) to see how it lines up and if there are any interesting correlations based on where the planets are sitting in each rasi sign and their degree for the day that both were born. I will extend this way of looking at charts by also taking the birth chart with its specific birth time and converting it to 00:00:00 and 06:00:00, to match the birth dates of the other charts who do not have birth times, where I have given them a 00:00:00 and 06:00:00 birth time. . In these different ways of looking at charts I also note where the Maha Dasha is at birth with its Bhukti and then try and follow it with different events from other charts and their Dasha’s and Bhukti's. I find that doing comparisons these ways, one tends to find correlating patterns for identical behaviors or disease one is studying if one knows the particular disease or behavior of the people whose charts are under study.. It is not perfect but it makes for interesting study and review. Too, much has been written about using Horary as a birth chart that can tell a whole person's life from it and not just what is the pressing question at the moment. So, with taking the Sun and Moon positions of any chart, and also using them as Asc's whether there is an exact birth time or not, is close and helpful in understanding a person's character and traits. Some astrologers will take charts for comparison and use 06:00:00 as the birth time since that is the beginning of the day for most Hindus and not Midnight. So, if you have one chart with a birth time, and other charts you want to compare that do not have birth times, then all charts are converted to 06:00:00 birth time. Something else I do for comparison and that is, I take each birth date and give it a 00:00:00 time, reflecting the midnight going into a new day of time and also create a 06:00:00 time and look at where all the planets are lined up in the Cosmos for the day. I find each planet’s Nakshatra and their ruler and compare each chart from these positions only. Ancient Jyotish used the Nakshatra degree and their rulers for casting charts as the only valid way for interpretation. Today, some Vedic astrologers still do this. This make sense in a lot of ways, because it wasn’t until after World War 11 in many parts of the world where birth times were recorded. And, in the USA, Universal Time was not institutionalized across the country until 1967. Plus, the world has seen many different times institutionalized for various spance of days, months and years, depending on their province, need for social rule or daylight, that time in and of itself is not as reliable as one would think it is. It is however, a new way of defining events since the middle 1980’s and has become the new way of explaining events and theories. There is too, the issue of Daylight Savings Time and War Time and Time adjusted for Oil conserve since World War 1 and 11 around the world. If one were to look at a world record of times and when each country or province changes time each year, one will notice that there are great difference across the globe. More, importantly, not all areas of the world record in standard time nor are they required to record equally in 24 hour time. So, in some areas, adjusted time is used and in others, standard time. In some areas, the counties within each state or province of a country and then each individual hospital is allowed to record birth time to their own standards for record keeping. Often time is recorded without any hint as to whether it is adjusted time, standard time or 24hr time acknowledgement, on the birth certificate As a current example coming up. The USA will start Daylight Savings Time Next March of 2007 in its third week and not end until the second week in Nov of 2007. This does not mean, however, that birth certificates will automatically across the country record in Daylight Savings Time. Time Zones too have been frequently adjusted through the years around the globe, so using a birth time is not the only way to determine the accuracy of a birth chart. Finally, the Betz Ephemeris is really a great resource for jyotish because it accurately uses sidereal placement of any planet's position in the sky from the earth, for any given day, using the Lahiri ayanamsha. Hope the information helps. Uttara neenako <neenako wrote: --- Dear Uttara, I have been going through the data given but find it very difficult to say much in the absence of the time of birth. In some cases the Moon also changes signs during the course of the day. As ever, Neena In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" <muttaraphalguni wrote: > > Hi Neena, > > Yes, Artsyflower's birth place, is Holland, Michigan. It is > displayed in the biography under "Comparision Charts" in the Study > week table and also in the Reference Charts birth data. Artsyflower > was also born at the Holland Community Hospital in Holland, Mich. > > Always, > > Uttara > > > jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako@> wrote: > > > > --- > > Dear Uttara, > > > > Really appreciate how well you are doing this study and bringing > > forth some common features. > > > > I wish we had some way to ascertain the time of birth in these > cases. > > Do you know the place of birth of "Artsyflower" ? > > > > Regards, > > Neena > > In jyotish-vidya, "muttaraphalguni" > > <muttaraphalguni@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello to all Group members, > > > > > > As presented on the first week Study group table in the > database, > > we > > > have three charts presented: John Forbes Nash as the main chart > > > with birth time and then Dr Singh's chart with Event times and > in > > > the "other Chart" category, we have William Minor. > > > > > > In the second week, we have cont'd our study on Mental > > > Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia with two additional charts. > > > > > > FIRST: I would like to make a note to all and that is whatever > > chart > > > is up for Study is also listed and one can find in the Astro > chart > > > table or the Reference table on the database. Please make use > of > > > the information gathered for complete understanding and > > delineation. > > > > > > A few days ago, I spoke of Dr Singh's Chart and his events since > > he > > > was an Assoc professor at the UN of CA. (USA) Berkeley, in the > > > sixties and then his retreat to his homeland in Bihar , India in > > > 1973, where he is still located and functioning today. His > > > biography and recent Interview is note worthy into the mind of > an > > > extraordinary man. > > > > > > Now we come to our third presentation of the first week and that > > is > > > of William Minor. His biography speaks for itself and one would > > be > > > guided to take the event of shooting an innocent person who he > > felt > > > was dangerous to himself as a Chart to erect in comparison with > > Mr. > > > Nash (Our main feature) for comparison in one's paranoia. > > > > > > In the second week's analysis that is cont'd from the first, we > > have > > > two charts to compare for Mental Illness/Paranoid Schizophrenia. > > > > > > The first is a young lady who goes by "Artsyflower" and then > > Lionel > > > Aldridge, the all time great in football, known for his > defensive > > > end tactics and advocate for the mentally ill and homeless after > > he > > > battled with Schizophrenia for twenty years and lived most of > that > > > time as a homeless person. His work to spread the word of > > > Schizophrenia was his major claim in the last 7 years of his > life > > > before his succumbed to heart failure and obesity. > > > > > > Tonight, I would like to feature Artsyflower, for her very new > > > diagnosis of Schizophrenia this past end of Oct 2005. > > > > > > I have had the great pleasure of personal being in contact with > > her > > > through email the last few days. Below, is a very personal > > account > > > that she relayed to me that is not in its detail on her very > > > progressive and enlightening blog. WE struck a wonderful > > > correspondence until I asked her to verify her birth time - > > > Unfortunately, bout ever so understandable, her response was, as > > > most paranoid Schizophrenia people in the troughs of being newly > > > diagnosed, was, "I can't give you that information. I don't know > > who > > > you are." > > > > > > However, if member take the time to check out her very personal > > > blog, one will find what real Schizophrenia is and with it, her > > very > > > real and extraordinary "gifted, artwork and poems. Also, she > has > > > made available on her blog resources for those that are > > interested, > > > links to sites about Schizophrenia. > > > > > > Below, please find with permission, a very person email from > > > Artysflower to me, to give everyone on the Jyotish-Vidya forum, > a > > > very real look into the very real world of how Schizophrenia can > > > develop in ones life. > > > > > > > > > "I was born on august 16, 1986 > > > i was a pre-mature. > > > i was born at holland community hospital. > > > > > > I was a sickly child. I had seizure's until i was 7 or 8 years > > old. > > > when i was 8, i had a flu that attcked my brain, dont remember > > what > > > its called, but i had to re-learn everything. how to walk, talk, > > > everything. I started to feel different when i was in 8th grade. > I > > > started having heart issues and i kept on hearing these voices > at > > > the same time. but they were nice to me so i didnt see a > problem. > > > When i was in my senior year i started to hear them more > > frequently, > > > but i didn't say anything because i didn't know how people would > > re- > > > act to this. After i graduated it got worse more and more, i > > started > > > seeing people who arent there, and they would follow me where > ever > > i > > > went. I started at Baker in muskegon in september of 06. In > > october > > > i was sent to Pine Rest in gradrapids. i was there for two weeks > > the > > > first time, and one week the second time. I have been dealing > with > > > my illness for 4 months now. Art and poetry where the only thing > i > > > knew how to express myself. My dad is bipolar, and > Schizophrenia > > > also runs in his family." > > > > > > Need I say more, accept the fact, that one has event dates to > work > > > with in comparison to John Nash's chart as others presented. > > > > > > I will now focus on Lionel Aldridge char that has been displayed > > for > > > compassion in the "Others Charts" section for study. Lionel was > a > > > very loved person and very accomplished in his field of sports. > > > Please see his birth data and biography not only on the Study > > group > > > lost but also found in the "Reference Charts" table. > > > > > > He was one of a kind, even in his most dire state of mental > > illness, > > > before he could effectively get a handle on his disease. Once > > found > > > and treated. He went on to be one of those few who can bring > light > > > to his plight and enlighten others. He was a very engaging > > speaker > > > and advocate for mental Illness and Homelessness and > Schizophrenia > > > before his untimely death in 1998 due to heart and obesity. > > > > > > Please have a very real look into this man's special gift to the > > > world. His sister is in the works of writing a biography of > him. > > > Hopefully, in that story will be details of his birth time. In > the > > > meantime, we can only go by his events of his life and endeavors. > > > > > > Finally: there is one more observation that I would like to put > > > forward, and that is where the placement of planets are in our > > > perspective charts presented in week one and two. > > > > > > Mind you, that just because planets are situated in the same > signs > > > and houses of others does not mean an automatic tic > correlation. > > > What it does present for group contemplation and study is the > > > coincidence of where planets are placed in the Rasi. > > > > > > With that thought may I present my initial finds for comment and > > > evaluation: > > > > > > In the five charts presented for study in week one and now two > we > > > have five charts for comparison as to how the planets are placed > > in > > > the Rasi. > > > > > > Artsyflower, Lionel Aldridge, and Dr. Singh, all have ME SU > > > together in a sign. Mercury stands alone in William Minor's > chart > > > as well as John Nash's. Ma Mo is together in a sign in > > Artsyflower > > > and John Nash's chart; Mo stand alone in Dr. Singh's and RA MO > are > > > together in a sign in Lionel Aldridge and William Minor's > > charts. > > > MA stands alone in Lionel Aldridge's chart. > > > > > > As always, > > > > > > Uttara > > > > > > p.s. additional charts will be added for third week review when > > > details are verified. In the meantime, Five charts to study > and > > > comment on are enough, in my opinion, to give the group study a > > > wealth of information to analysis and comment on for guite a > while. > > > :-) > > > > > > Vedic astrology Personal reading Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web. jyotish-vidya "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us......As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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