Question for Wendy-ji and other members

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Wendy-ji, and other respected members,

 

Please help me understand something.

 

I understand the temporal relationship scheme set forth by

Parashara. The way I remember it is "friends are in houses 3 in

front and 3 in back."

 

So here is my question. If Saturn and Venus are 2 houses from each

other (Saturn 12th house and Venus 1st house), then they become

Great Friends. However, we might also hear an astrologer say

something like, "Saturn and Venus are in a 2/12 relationship, which

can bring both highs and lows, gains and losses in their Dasas."

 

This seems to be a contradiction, but I think we are talking about

two different matters: one, friendship means they will support each

other and each other's affairs, and two, their bhava relationship

can create a dynamic of ups and downs, gains and losses, etc. Is

this true? I think, for example, if Venus and Saturn are in a 3/11

relationship their friendship will be more consistently useful for

gains than if they are in the 2/12 relationship.

 

However, I need some concrete examples of how this could work.

Please help me understand this better when you have time. I am

grateful.

 

Thanks,

Juliana

[Guest guest]

Dear Juliana,

 

You've posed a very interesting question here. I will give my

interpretation which others may, or may not agree with... their

views are also welcome of course :-)

 

I have the chart of a native who has 10th lord Moon in 4th in sign

of Capricorn whilst dispositor Saturn occupies 3rd (12th from Moon).

If we look at the bhavas in light of both their personal (people)

significations and impersonal significations two things are evident

in this chart.

 

1) 10th lord's dispositor, occupying 12th therefrom, has 5th (8th

from 10th) as his moolatrikona. His father, a merchant seaman, died

during the bhukti of Moon in Rahu's dasa. If I'm not mistaken the PD

could have been that of Saturn...the native is checking on the date

and will get back to me on that.

 

2) The native had been, immediately prior to his father's death, in

the armed forces (serving overseas)...10th lord's dispositor in 12th

therefrom shows the foreign connection in relation to career.

 

Certainly 10th lord's dispositor in 12th therefrom was adverse for

father (person signified by 10th)...however, in terms of career

(overseas posting etc), things were more favourable for the native.

 

Of course there are many other factors in the chart that lend their

support to both aspects of the native's life...so, in this regard

it's probably not a good example. I'm scratching my head a little

trying to find a chart where I can verify events. One thing is for

certain, this native has risen in stature (status) in foreign

lands... 10th lord Moon in sign of Saturn who has become a temporary

friend.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"Juliana Swanson" <omhamsa

<jyotish-vidya>

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:51 AM

Question for Wendy-ji and other members

 

 

Namaste, Wendy-ji, and other respected members,

 

Please help me understand something.

 

I understand the temporal relationship scheme set forth by

Parashara. The way I remember it is "friends are in houses 3 in

front and 3 in back."

 

So here is my question. If Saturn and Venus are 2 houses from each

other (Saturn 12th house and Venus 1st house), then they become

Great Friends. However, we might also hear an astrologer say

something like, "Saturn and Venus are in a 2/12 relationship, which

can bring both highs and lows, gains and losses in their Dasas."

 

This seems to be a contradiction, but I think we are talking about

two different matters: one, friendship means they will support each

other and each other's affairs, and two, their bhava relationship

can create a dynamic of ups and downs, gains and losses, etc. Is

this true? I think, for example, if Venus and Saturn are in a 3/11

relationship their friendship will be more consistently useful for

gains than if they are in the 2/12 relationship.

 

However, I need some concrete examples of how this could work.

Please help me understand this better when you have time. I am

grateful.

 

Thanks,

Juliana

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

Thank you for this excellent illustration in response to my question

about the apparent conflict of having planets both in temporal

friendship and a 2/12 relationship.

 

Yes, perhaps when we are considering conflicting friendship schemes,

such as two planets becoming temporary friends but remaining in a

2/12 relationship, we must "look at the bhavas in light of both

their personal (people) significations and impersonal

significations." It seems in your example that the native's outward

life has benefited from the relationship of the planets

(Saturn/Moon) in a temporal friendship, in regard to matters

connected to the houses they rule, but the other people in the

native's life, who are signified therein, may have suffered due to

the 2/12 relationship.

 

In various other situations, we have to sort out the personal versus

impersonal significations. One case is with planets in Upachaya

houses, wherein it is said that matters related to the planet in the

growing houses will improve with effort over time, except where the

matters relate to the other people in the native's life who are

signified by that house.

 

Another example in which we read things diferently for the native

versus the people in his life is "Karako bhavo nashto" (karaka

destroys bhava), in which the karaka of a house sits in that house

and thus blemishes the people indicated therein. For instance,

Jupiter in the 5th house in Cancer may create some difficulties with

conception, childbirth or progeny, but also provides potential for

an expansive, creative intellect and punya.

 

Thanks so much for your help.

 

Blessings-

Juliana

[Guest guest]

Dear Mrs Wendy and other respected members,

 

Why is the mutual position of planets in 5th and 9th

from each other considered auspicious when actually

the said planets will gain temporary enmity.

 

Our family astrologers always referred to this yoga as

nava -pacham ( meaning 9 th and 5th ) and judged that

it bestowed the native with luck and wealth.

Planets like Sun and the moon, jupiter and

mars,jupiter and moon, Saturn and Venus in such nava

-pacham combination was always considered lucky.

 

Best Regards

 

 

Nilesh

 

 

 

--- Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Juliana,

 

You've posed a very interesting question here. I will

give my

interpretation which others may, or may not agree

with... their

views are also welcome of course :-)

 

I have the chart of a native who has 10th lord Moon in

4th in sign

of Capricorn whilst dispositor Saturn occupies 3rd

(12th from Moon).

If we look at the bhavas in light of both their

personal (people)

significations and impersonal significations two

things are evident

in this chart.

 

1) 10th lord's dispositor, occupying 12th therefrom,

has 5th (8th

from 10th) as his moolatrikona. His father, a merchant

seaman, died

during the bhukti of Moon in Rahu's dasa. If I'm not

mistaken the PD

could have been that of Saturn...the native is

checking on the date

and will get back to me on that.

 

2) The native had been, immediately prior to his

father's death, in

the armed forces (serving overseas)...10th lord's

dispositor in 12th

therefrom shows the foreign connection in relation to

career.

 

Certainly 10th lord's dispositor in 12th therefrom was

adverse for

father (person signified by 10th)...however, in terms

of career

(overseas posting etc), things were more favourable

for the native.

 

Of course there are many other factors in the chart

that lend their

support to both aspects of the native's life...so, in

this regard

it's probably not a good example. I'm scratching my

head a little

trying to find a chart where I can verify events. One

thing is for

certain, this native has risen in stature (status) in

foreign

lands... 10th lord Moon in sign of Saturn who has

become a temporary

friend.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"Juliana Swanson" <omhamsa

<jyotish-vidya>

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:51 AM

Question for Wendy-ji and

other members

 

 

Namaste, Wendy-ji, and other respected members,

 

Please help me understand something.

 

I understand the temporal relationship scheme set

forth by

Parashara. The way I remember it is "friends are in

houses 3 in

front and 3 in back."

 

So here is my question. If Saturn and Venus are 2

houses from each

other (Saturn 12th house and Venus 1st house), then

they become

Great Friends. However, we might also hear an

astrologer say

something like, "Saturn and Venus are in a 2/12

relationship, which

can bring both highs and lows, gains and losses in

their Dasas."

 

This seems to be a contradiction, but I think we are

talking about

two different matters: one, friendship means they will

support each

other and each other's affairs, and two, their bhava

relationship

can create a dynamic of ups and downs, gains and

losses, etc. Is

this true? I think, for example, if Venus and Saturn

are in a 3/11

relationship their friendship will be more

consistently useful for

gains than if they are in the 2/12 relationship.

 

However, I need some concrete examples of how this

could work.

Please help me understand this better when you have

time. I am

grateful.

 

Thanks,

Juliana

 

 

 

 

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chart

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[Guest guest]

Dear Nilesh,

 

The topic under discussion was regarding a planet's placement i.e;

in house of friend, great friend, enemy, bitter enemy or neutral.

This applies specifically to the "sign" a planet occupies.

 

If you read through slokas 49 to 60 >

http://jyotishvidya.com/ch3.htm it's quite clear the scheme relates

to a planet's strength in a given sign. i.e; sign of friend, great

friend, enemy and so forth... This is how we determine the planet's

strength in a particular sign (bhava)...it applies to the

relationship between a planet and its dispositor.

 

Does this (temporary) relationship extend to other planets? I'm now

doubtful of this. However it is stated in all the classics I've read

that there will be difficulties during the dasa/bhukti of planets

inimical to each other whilst cooperation between friendly planets

will produce favourable results. My own thoughts favour the

temporary relationship ONLY in regards to the planets strength in a

given sign and its relationship with its dispositor, otherwise we

abide by the natural/permanent relationship between the planets.

What I appreciate most about Parashara is the profound simplicity

and, in my opinion, extending the temporary friendship scheme to all

planets really does muddy the waters somewhat...this, to me, is

contrary to Parashara's methods.

 

Of course my understanding could by lacking in this and I gladly

welcome others views :-)

 

In the example you gave Nilesh (Sun and the Moon, Jupiter and

Mars, Jupiter and Moon, Saturn and Venus), these planets are all

natural (permanent) friends...

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"nilesh joshi" <niljoshi27

<jyotish-vidya>

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:13 PM

Re: Question for Wendy-ji and other members

 

 

Dear Mrs Wendy and other respected members,

 

Why is the mutual position of planets in 5th and 9th

from each other considered auspicious when actually

the said planets will gain temporary enmity.

 

Our family astrologers always referred to this yoga as

nava -pacham ( meaning 9 th and 5th ) and judged that

it bestowed the native with luck and wealth.

Planets like Sun and the moon, jupiter and

mars,jupiter and moon, Saturn and Venus in such nava

-pacham combination was always considered lucky.

 

Best Regards

 

 

Nilesh

[Guest guest]

Dear Nilesh ji an dothers,

In the chart Pancham and navam has importence as they relate to Dharma

houses.When we consider how ever planets,the relationship between is between two

groups of planets led by Sun and Venus seperately.

In both these groups there is friendship within them and become enemies with

other groups.The exceptionhowever is saturn who is neutral to the group led by

sun,though he is enemy to sun like wise for the other group jupiter is neutral

for the group led by venus.Thus thrikone house represent Dharma but with the

planets posited in pancham and navam become temporary enemy because of panchadha

maitri a compound relation.It is but logical natural friends make relations and

some times natural enemies with others become temporay enemies and friends with

in them .So two trikons if we see: from lagna to pancham and from pancham to

lagna are temporary friends where as between pancham and navam they may have

temporal enemity.This is combination of Natural+Temporary leading to a compound

situation of 5 types of friendships as under:

True friends

True enemies

also just frien and just enemy(this comes by position as in 5and 9)

otherwise neutral

Interstingly Moon declares no enemies but most of the planets out of six, 4 are

neutrals and only sun and mercury are declared as friends.Accordingly as the

story goes the 12 houses have also been shared in the same manner,leading to 5,9

auspicious houses to temporary enemity.

krishnan

nilesh joshi <niljoshi27 wrote:

Dear Mrs Wendy and other respected members,

 

Why is the mutual position of planets in 5th and 9th

from each other considered auspicious when actually

the said planets will gain temporary enmity.

 

Our family astrologers always referred to this yoga as

nava -pacham ( meaning 9 th and 5th ) and judged that

it bestowed the native with luck and wealth.

Planets like Sun and the moon, jupiter and

mars,jupiter and moon, Saturn and Venus in such nava

-pacham combination was always considered lucky.

 

Best Regards

 

 

Nilesh

 

 

 

--- Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Juliana,

 

You've posed a very interesting question here. I will

give my

interpretation which others may, or may not agree

with... their

views are also welcome of course :-)

 

I have the chart of a native who has 10th lord Moon in

4th in sign

of Capricorn whilst dispositor Saturn occupies 3rd

(12th from Moon).

If we look at the bhavas in light of both their

personal (people)

significations and impersonal significations two

things are evident

in this chart.

 

1) 10th lord's dispositor, occupying 12th therefrom,

has 5th (8th

from 10th) as his moolatrikona. His father, a merchant

seaman, died

during the bhukti of Moon in Rahu's dasa. If I'm not

mistaken the PD

could have been that of Saturn...the native is

checking on the date

and will get back to me on that.

 

2) The native had been, immediately prior to his

father's death, in

the armed forces (serving overseas)...10th lord's

dispositor in 12th

therefrom shows the foreign connection in relation to

career.

 

Certainly 10th lord's dispositor in 12th therefrom was

adverse for

father (person signified by 10th)...however, in terms

of career

(overseas posting etc), things were more favourable

for the native.

 

Of course there are many other factors in the chart

that lend their

support to both aspects of the native's life...so, in

this regard

it's probably not a good example. I'm scratching my

head a little

trying to find a chart where I can verify events. One

thing is for

certain, this native has risen in stature (status) in

foreign

lands... 10th lord Moon in sign of Saturn who has

become a temporary

friend.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"Juliana Swanson" <omhamsa

<jyotish-vidya>

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:51 AM

Question for Wendy-ji and

other members

 

 

Namaste, Wendy-ji, and other respected members,

 

Please help me understand something.

 

I understand the temporal relationship scheme set

forth by

Parashara. The way I remember it is "friends are in

houses 3 in

front and 3 in back."

 

So here is my question. If Saturn and Venus are 2

houses from each

other (Saturn 12th house and Venus 1st house), then

they become

Great Friends. However, we might also hear an

astrologer say

something like, "Saturn and Venus are in a 2/12

relationship, which

can bring both highs and lows, gains and losses in

their Dasas."

 

This seems to be a contradiction, but I think we are

talking about

two different matters: one, friendship means they will

support each

other and each other's affairs, and two, their bhava

relationship

can create a dynamic of ups and downs, gains and

losses, etc. Is

this true? I think, for example, if Venus and Saturn

are in a 3/11

relationship their friendship will be more

consistently useful for

gains than if they are in the 2/12 relationship.

 

However, I need some concrete examples of how this

could work.

Please help me understand this better when you have

time. I am

grateful.

 

Thanks,

Juliana

 

 

 

 

Vedic

astrology Personal

reading Astrology

chart

Astrology software

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web.

 

jyotish-vidya

 

Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Wendyji

 

I agree to what you have said in the mail.

 

However let me put my doubt in a different way.

 

Say there are 2 horoscopes

 

1. A horoscope with Virgo lagna and other following

details.

 

Mars the lord of 3rd house ( scorpio )

is placed in the 7th house in Pisces

Jupiter the lord of 7th house is placed in scorpio the

3rd house.

 

MArs and Jupiter are friends but are getting temp

enmity due to being 5th and 9th from each other.

 

2.Compare this with a horoscope with again Virgo lagna

and other following details

 

Mars the lord of 3rd house ( scorpio )

is placed in the 4th house in Sagi

Jupiter the lord of 4th house is placed in scorpio the

3rd house.

 

Here MArs and Jupiter are friends and also getting

temp friendship due to being 2nd and 12th from each

other.

 

Actually as per texts chart 2 combination will be

considered more auspicious - because of temp as well

as perm friendship

 

However there are some astrologers who consider the

chart 1 combination to b more auspicious because of

the nav - pancham yoga.

 

Which is more auspicious combination 1 or 2?

 

Best Regards

 

Nilesh

 

 

 

 

--- Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Nilesh,

 

The topic under discussion was regarding a planet's

placement i.e;

in house of friend, great friend, enemy, bitter enemy

or neutral.

This applies specifically to the "sign" a planet

occupies.

 

If you read through slokas 49 to 60 >

http://jyotishvidya.com/ch3.htm it's quite clear the

scheme relates

to a planet's strength in a given sign. i.e; sign of

friend, great

friend, enemy and so forth... This is how we determine

the planet's

strength in a particular sign (bhava)...it applies to

the

relationship between a planet and its dispositor.

 

Does this (temporary) relationship extend to other

planets? I'm now

doubtful of this. However it is stated in all the

classics I've read

that there will be difficulties during the dasa/bhukti

of planets

inimical to each other whilst cooperation between

friendly planets

will produce favourable results. My own thoughts

favour the

temporary relationship ONLY in regards to the planets

strength in a

given sign and its relationship with its dispositor,

otherwise we

abide by the natural/permanent relationship between

the planets.

What I appreciate most about Parashara is the profound

simplicity

and, in my opinion, extending the temporary friendship

scheme to all

planets really does muddy the waters somewhat...this,

to me, is

contrary to Parashara's methods.

 

Of course my understanding could by lacking in this

and I gladly

welcome others views :-)

 

In the example you gave Nilesh (Sun and the Moon,

Jupiter and

Mars, Jupiter and Moon, Saturn and Venus), these

planets are all

natural (permanent) friends...

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"nilesh joshi" <niljoshi27

<jyotish-vidya>

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:13 PM

Re: Question for Wendy-ji and

other members

 

 

Dear Mrs Wendy and other respected members,

 

Why is the mutual position of planets in 5th and 9th

from each other considered auspicious when actually

the said planets will gain temporary enmity.

 

Our family astrologers always referred to this yoga as

nava -pacham ( meaning 9 th and 5th ) and judged that

it bestowed the native with luck and wealth.

Planets like Sun and the moon, jupiter and

mars,jupiter and moon, Saturn and Venus in such nava

-pacham combination was always considered lucky.

 

Best Regards

 

 

Nilesh

 

 

 

 

Vedic

astrology Personal

reading Astrology

chart

Astrology software

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web.

 

jyotish-vidya

 

Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Nilesh,

 

As I'm sure you're aware, in chart 1. MA & JU have a neutral

relationship (not hostile, not friendly) whilst in chart 2. both are

in the sign of a great friend...I think we've already discussed (at

length) the significance of a planet occupying the sign of a deep

friend etc, etc..

However, this is just one consideration here as, in both charts, the

planets are involved in a parivartana yoga.

 

When stating that planets in 5/9 position form a favourable yoga

it's necessary to consider what houses are involved and if there are

other yogas present that might nullify this, don't you think...

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"nilesh joshi" <niljoshi27

<jyotish-vidya>

Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:11 PM

Re: Question for Wendy-ji and other members

 

 

Dear Wendyji

 

I agree to what you have said in the mail.

 

However let me put my doubt in a different way.

 

Say there are 2 horoscopes

 

1. A horoscope with Virgo lagna and other following

details.

 

Mars the lord of 3rd house ( scorpio )

is placed in the 7th house in Pisces

Jupiter the lord of 7th house is placed in scorpio the

3rd house.

 

MArs and Jupiter are friends but are getting temp

enmity due to being 5th and 9th from each other.

 

2.Compare this with a horoscope with again Virgo lagna

and other following details

 

Mars the lord of 3rd house ( scorpio )

is placed in the 4th house in Sagi

Jupiter the lord of 4th house is placed in scorpio the

3rd house.

 

Here MArs and Jupiter are friends and also getting

temp friendship due to being 2nd and 12th from each

other.

 

Actually as per texts chart 2 combination will be

considered more auspicious - because of temp as well

as perm friendship

 

However there are some astrologers who consider the

chart 1 combination to b more auspicious because of

the nav - pancham yoga.

 

Which is more auspicious combination 1 or 2?

 

Best Regards

 

Nilesh

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendyji, Juliana,Krishnan and other members,

 

Thank you for throwing light on this matter.

 

Also wondering if the fires and excess rain and deluge

in Europe is because of Sat in Cancer and MArs in

Aries with mutual aspect

 

Best Regards

 

Nilesh

--- Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Nilesh,

 

As I'm sure you're aware, in chart 1. MA & JU have a

neutral

relationship (not hostile, not friendly) whilst in

chart 2. both are

in the sign of a great friend...I think we've already

discussed (at

length) the significance of a planet occupying the

sign of a deep

friend etc, etc..

However, this is just one consideration here as, in

both charts, the

planets are involved in a parivartana yoga.

 

When stating that planets in 5/9 position form a

favourable yoga

it's necessary to consider what houses are involved

and if there are

other yogas present that might nullify this, don't you

think...

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

______________________________

 

-

"nilesh joshi" <niljoshi27

<jyotish-vidya>

Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:11 PM

Re: Question for Wendy-ji and

other members

 

 

Dear Wendyji

 

I agree to what you have said in the mail.

 

However let me put my doubt in a different way.

 

Say there are 2 horoscopes

 

1. A horoscope with Virgo lagna and other following

details.

 

Mars the lord of 3rd house ( scorpio )

is placed in the 7th house in Pisces

Jupiter the lord of 7th house is placed in scorpio the

3rd house.

 

MArs and Jupiter are friends but are getting temp

enmity due to being 5th and 9th from each other.

 

2.Compare this with a horoscope with again Virgo lagna

and other following details

 

Mars the lord of 3rd house ( scorpio )

is placed in the 4th house in Sagi

Jupiter the lord of 4th house is placed in scorpio the

3rd house.

 

Here MArs and Jupiter are friends and also getting

temp friendship due to being 2nd and 12th from each

other.

 

Actually as per texts chart 2 combination will be

considered more auspicious - because of temp as well

as perm friendship

 

However there are some astrologers who consider the

chart 1 combination to b more auspicious because of

the nav - pancham yoga.

 

Which is more auspicious combination 1 or 2?

 

Best Regards

 

Nilesh

 

 

 

 

Vedic

astrology Personal

reading Astrology

chart

Astrology software

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "jyotish-vidya" on the web.

 

jyotish-vidya

 

Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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