Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Dear All, The litigation (pending court case) involving Michael Jackson has been one of the main "News" story's here over the last 24 hrs... I'm sure it's the same world-wide. His chart is interesting in light of our recent discussion regarding "True or Mean Node" as the Nodes change in his chart depending on which option you choose. Members may like to give their interpretation based on the position of Nodes in his chart...it would be a good exercise :-) The birth data I have (according to GJ data bank) is: Aug 29 1958 (23.45) Gary, IN, USA Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 -Dear Wendy, Just checking up on Michael Jackson's ascendant: Is it Taurus Vargottama? I am using Jagannath Horalite software and can never be sure. Regards, neena -- In jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@j...> wrote: > Dear All, > > The litigation (pending court case) involving Michael Jackson has > been one of the main "News" story's here over the last 24 hrs... I'm > sure it's the same world-wide. > > His chart is interesting in light of our recent discussion regarding > "True or Mean Node" as the Nodes change in his chart depending on > which option you choose. Members may like to give their > interpretation based on the position of Nodes in his chart...it > would be a good exercise :-) > > The birth data I have (according to GJ data bank) is: > Aug 29 1958 (23.45) > Gary, IN, USA > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 -Dear Wendy, Just checking up on Michael Jackson's ascendant: Is it Taurus Vargottama? I am using Jagannath Horalite software and can never be sure. Regards, neena -- In jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@j...> wrote: > Dear All, > > The litigation (pending court case) involving Michael Jackson has > been one of the main "News" story's here over the last 24 hrs... I'm > sure it's the same world-wide. > > His chart is interesting in light of our recent discussion regarding > "True or Mean Node" as the Nodes change in his chart depending on > which option you choose. Members may like to give their > interpretation based on the position of Nodes in his chart...it > would be a good exercise :-) > > The birth data I have (according to GJ data bank) is: > Aug 29 1958 (23.45) > Gary, IN, USA > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Dear Neena, According to the time I have, lagna is Taurus 21°26'58". Navamsha has Cancer rising... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "neenako" <neenako <jyotish-vidya> Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:24 PM Re: Michael Jackson: True or Mean Node -Dear Wendy, Just checking up on Michael Jackson's ascendant: Is it Taurus Vargottama? I am using Jagannath Horalite software and can never be sure. Regards, neena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hi Dear Wendy, Neena and List, For Michael Jackson's chart Neena, I also show Taurus Lagna and Navamsa is Cancer. I'm using PL and Wendy usually does as well, you probably are too ey Wendy ;-). Wendy, with respect to the nodes, there is an intriguing juncture considering the Michael Jackson case and trial selection beginning yesterday, using the technique of progressed dasa Moon (PDM) that Andrew has shared. It's quite remarkable that right now as this case goes to court, Michael Jackson's PDM has moved approaching EXACTLY to his natal Ketu (true node) at 29.53 using KP ayanamsa, 29.47 Lahiri, birth time I'm using is 23.43. His PDM currently at approximately 29.22. His dasas using KP ayanamsa are Me/Sa/Mo/Ketu. Yesterday's transiting Moon passed exactly over transiting Jupiter in Mar's star, and Michael's natal Rahu in his 5H, and then continued into Michael's 6H joining transiting Ketu in Mar's star, thus both involving his 6H and also Mars in his 12H. Both Jupiter and Rahu (using true nodes) barely moving with Jupiter stationary at 25.02, and closely approaching Michael's natal Rahu degree. Rahu stationed yesterday at 1.49. To me these two stationing yesterday is very interesting considering what this case involves and both Rahu and Jupiter representing either Michael's 5H of children, or Jupiter, karaka for children, and the nature of Rahu itself. Also using either the Bhava equal house system or KP, we find both Jupiter and Rahu in his natal 5H. In rasi, Jupiter in 6H of law enforcement. Yesterday, Mercury, ruler of his rasi 5H, conjoined Sun and Venus in his 9H, again representing law and order, the law courts and lawyers, and Mercury (and Venus) in Sun's star! Natal chart R Mercury and Sun conjoined in 4H, Sun's house Leo, and in Ketu's star. Now yesterday transiting Mars in his 8H, Ketu's star, EXACTLY in a 5H trine with natal Mercury at 2 degrees. Transiting Ketu is in Mars star and natal Mars is in his 12H. Now it's important to consider that his natal Mercury is R and also in Gandanta degree as well in Ketu's star - this Ketu also by true nodes in severe Gandanta himself, and in the 11H of friends in Jupiter's house Pisces (with cusp in Jupiter's star as well.) AND that Ketu and this RMercury are in nakshatra parivartana whilst both being in Gandanta positions. In early 2006, Michael Jackson will also go into Ketu Mahadasa while now in the last of Mercury Mahadasa. Yesterday Moon initiating all as it passed over these two stationary planets while in Mars star - all three Moon, Jupiter and Ketu in Mars star, Chitra. Vishwakarma is the great artist and artificer to the gods, arts, music... While looking up more on Chitra, it is listed: Basis above, law - Basis below, truth. In Michael Jackson's natal chart, both Rahu and Jupiter are in Chitra. Also interesting is that Chitra's deity is Tvashtra. Tvashtra refers to the Sun. This is an intriguing connection here with Mars as star lord and the Sun as the deity with respect to the law and government and truth. All best wishes, Patrice ___________ Dear Neena, According to the time I have, lagna is Taurus 21°26'58". Navamsha has Cancer rising... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Note: Jupiter yesterday at the same degree as it stations actually today... 25.02, and barely moving yesterday. Just to be clear with my comments where I said that Jupiter stationed yesterday on the previous note... Peace, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Dear Patrice, Your post is interesting and I WILL go through it leisurely before I respond :-) I'm just taking a moment here to point out a couple of important features in MJ's chart (at the keyboard early as I have some appointments that will keep me away from the computer for most of the day). At first glance the tendency could be to judge the situation in light of the mutual JU/MA aspect...JU in sign of VE, MA in 12th... and Rahu in 5th etc, etc. However the nature of Saturn in this chart is an important consideration in terms of his ethics, piety and so forth...yogakaraka Saturn (9th/10th lord) aspecting both 9th house and lagna as well as 5th lord Mercury (Rahu's dispositor) and Sun. Certainly Rahu in 5th suggests that he's passionate about children, but is he morally corrupt as the crime he's accused of suggests??? Or is it more a case of being falsely accused by the children he's cared for...I'm not making any judgement at this stage as I don't have enough time to really study the chart. But consider 8th lord Jupiter (scandals, accusations, ill-repute) in 6th house of enemies. This Jupiter, a functional malefic for Taurus, also disposits Ketu who himself is an indicator of secrecy, intrigues, scandal, suspicion, deceit and so forth. Jupiter's aspect on 10th house is worth considering! Regarding the (True) nodal positions, Braha has this to say about Ketu in 11th; "The person will be successful in his undertakings and fortunate in gaining wealth." And Rahu in 5th in sign of Virgo is said to give wealth, difficulties in love affairs, a fine character with high morals and good integrity, strong sense of destiny etc.. One of his closest friends and trusted confidant (Elizabeth Taylor) says: "I think he's one of the finest people to hit this planet." But of course that doesn't really count for a great deal as such transgressions (if they exist) are not likely to be shared with anyone... Certainly it's an extremely interesting chart and provides a lot of room for thought. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "Patrice Curry" <patricecurry <jyotish-vidya> Wednesday, February 02, 2005 3:16 AM Re: Re: Michael Jackson: True or Mean Node Hi Dear Wendy, Neena and List, For Michael Jackson's chart Neena, I also show Taurus Lagna and Navamsa is Cancer. I'm using PL and Wendy usually does as well, you probably are too ey Wendy ;-). Wendy, with respect to the nodes, there is an intriguing juncture considering the Michael Jackson case and trial selection beginning yesterday, using the technique of progressed dasa Moon (PDM) that Andrew has shared. It's quite remarkable that right now as this case goes to court, Michael Jackson's PDM has moved approaching EXACTLY to his natal Ketu (true node) at 29.53 using KP ayanamsa, 29.47 Lahiri, birth time I'm using is 23.43. His PDM currently at approximately 29.22. His dasas using KP ayanamsa are Me/Sa/Mo/Ketu. Yesterday's transiting Moon passed exactly over transiting Jupiter in Mar's star, and Michael's natal Rahu in his 5H, and then continued into Michael's 6H joining transiting Ketu in Mar's star, thus both involving his 6H and also Mars in his 12H. Both Jupiter and Rahu (using true nodes) barely moving with Jupiter stationary at 25.02, and closely approaching Michael's natal Rahu degree. Rahu stationed yesterday at 1.49. To me these two stationing yesterday is very interesting considering what this case involves and both Rahu and Jupiter representing either Michael's 5H of children, or Jupiter, karaka for children, and the nature of Rahu itself. Also using either the Bhava equal house system or KP, we find both Jupiter and Rahu in his natal 5H. In rasi, Jupiter in 6H of law enforcement. Yesterday, Mercury, ruler of his rasi 5H, conjoined Sun and Venus in his 9H, again representing law and order, the law courts and lawyers, and Mercury (and Venus) in Sun's star! Natal chart R Mercury and Sun conjoined in 4H, Sun's house Leo, and in Ketu's star. Now yesterday transiting Mars in his 8H, Ketu's star, EXACTLY in a 5H trine with natal Mercury at 2 degrees. Transiting Ketu is in Mars star and natal Mars is in his 12H. Now it's important to consider that his natal Mercury is R and also in Gandanta degree as well in Ketu's star - this Ketu also by true nodes in severe Gandanta himself, and in the 11H of friends in Jupiter's house Pisces (with cusp in Jupiter's star as well.) AND that Ketu and this RMercury are in nakshatra parivartana whilst both being in Gandanta positions. In early 2006, Michael Jackson will also go into Ketu Mahadasa while now in the last of Mercury Mahadasa. Yesterday Moon initiating all as it passed over these two stationary planets while in Mars star - all three Moon, Jupiter and Ketu in Mars star, Chitra. Vishwakarma is the great artist and artificer to the gods, arts, music... While looking up more on Chitra, it is listed: Basis above, law - Basis below, truth. In Michael Jackson's natal chart, both Rahu and Jupiter are in Chitra. Also interesting is that Chitra's deity is Tvashtra. Tvashtra refers to the Sun. This is an intriguing connection here with Mars as star lord and the Sun as the deity with respect to the law and government and truth. All best wishes, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 PS: >>Jupiter's aspect on 10th house is worth considering!<< In terms of F/M Jupiter's potential to harm to his career/reputation... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hello Patrice, Jupiter in Virgo just assumed retrograde motion in Kanya in chitta nakshtra,the first charan.lord is mars.It's influence in mundane is a matter to be really needs analysis.It's impact on Iraq as well as part of India has also toe be watched.Aspect of mars in ketu nakshtra on saturn in punarvasu in a Airy sign is an other intersting issue to find how a fiery sign of sagittarus and the airy sign of mercury will go together.A certain caution for all air travellers in south east and westren countries. Thanx krishnan Patrice Curry <patricecurry wrote: Note: Jupiter yesterday at the same degree as it stations actually today... 25.02, and barely moving yesterday. Just to be clear with my comments where I said that Jupiter stationed yesterday on the previous note... Peace, Patrice Sponsor Children InternationalWould you give Hope to a Child in need? ·Click Here to meet a Girl And Give Her Hope·Click Here to meet a Boy And Change His Life Learn More jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Hi Dear Wendy, It is a very interesting chart, yes, and I found this current conjunction of his progressed dasa Moon with natal Ketu interesting with respect to your post regarding nodes. Thanks for your point about Saturn in his chart and it's yogakaraka place in the chart. It's interesting to view it as well from the perspective of his father. I did recently see a more in depth television production on his early years and his father ~ his relationship with his father from a very early age. At least as much as we can really glean from any type of show like that, but it seems well known that his father was extremely tough and overbearing on him and the entire household and also some very complicated dynamics going on. I'm trying to understand this Saturn... PS: >>Jupiter's aspect on 10th house is worth considering!<< In terms of F/M Jupiter's potential to harm to his career/reputation... Also this is a very good point about F/M Jupiter and his potential to harm his career/reputation. 11H is also Badhaka and further therefore Jupiter (and Ketu) Badhakesh in this chart. My feelings also are that these past couple years since around May of 2003, his PDM would have been approaching his natal Ketu and this PDM also growing into a deeper Gandanta position which will now continue for some time. These must have been difficult years for him and suffering mentally and will continue to be for some time. Seeing this situation with progressed Moon has been helpful to me as there has been a lot of talk and speculation over these past years about this with Michael and public questioning of his mental state, whether there has been any validity to this questioning or not. I don't know how much he is in the news and media under normal conditions elsewhere out of the US. I understand at this time his court hearing and life is being reported everywhere. The program I watched recently covered in more detail and tried to explain his upbringing and the effects of his mother becoming a Jehovah's Witness and then her deep influence of this on Michael. This religion's beliefs to not celebrate birthdays and holidays and the demands for strict and pure beliefs and living as well as the severe results if one doesn't follow these rules. Also the conflicts he was exposed to so young considering this along then with his father's reported moral failings and the lies that his father asked of him to spin at a very delicate age, so this very deep and complex conflict going on. By all reports he took his mother's religious beliefs and developed his own very seriously and the beliefs of their church. The results of this yogakarka Saturn? It continued to show how once hugely successful, the 'rules' were stretched somewhat then by his mother as well. The point of the program was to show this situation that this very sensitive boy was raised in and how these effects are considered to have affected Michael most strongly as the most sensitive of the children, and also his delicate ages where so much of this was experienced. That along with what could only be considered sexual abuse which he was repeatedly exposed to via both the places where they performed, at such a young age, and also what went on with both his father and brothers while away from the home with Michael in the room. There's a pretty tight aspect from a strong Mars in the 12H in own sign on this Saturn in Mars sign Scorpio (as well as the mutual one you pointed to with Mars and Jupiter, also Mars aspects Venus). Saturn is in great enemies house as well. I do see your point regarding yogakaraka and ethics and piety also, and needed and appreciate your reminder of this. Perhaps this again showing this deep conflict onto Michael's 1H??? ..Lagna is in Moon's star... And this coming from Michael's father?? as well as mother's subtle involvement with this conflict (Saturn in Mercury's star as well as 10H aspect onto 4H.) although mother much more Satvic and trying to impart this purity (Sun in Leo and Moolatrikona). Also Michael's closeness to his mother and his view of her... Another interesting thing on Monday as the trial jury selection began is that Michael's 12H Mars was transiting exactly at MB point in his 8H while in this nearly exact 5H trine with his R Gandanta Mercury.. and Mercury's exchange at nakshatra level with severely Gandanta Ketu. This along with all else I mentioned in previous post. Very interesting what you've written regarding Braha's words on Ketu in 11H and Rahu in 5H. Thanks for your interesting post ;-) Kindest wishes, Patrice ___________ Dear Patrice, Your post is interesting and I WILL go through it leisurely before I respond :-) I'm just taking a moment here to point out a couple of important features in MJ's chart (at the keyboard early as I have some appointments that will keep me away from the computer for most of the day). At first glance the tendency could be to judge the situation in light of the mutual JU/MA aspect...JU in sign of VE, MA in 12th... and Rahu in 5th etc, etc. However the nature of Saturn in this chart is an important consideration in terms of his ethics, piety and so forth...yogakaraka Saturn (9th/10th lord) aspecting both 9th house and lagna as well as 5th lord Mercury (Rahu's dispositor) and Sun. Certainly Rahu in 5th suggests that he's passionate about children, but is he morally corrupt as the crime he's accused of suggests??? Or is it more a case of being falsely accused by the children he's cared for...I'm not making any judgement at this stage as I don't have enough time to really study the chart. But consider 8th lord Jupiter (scandals, accusations, ill-repute) in 6th house of enemies. This Jupiter, a functional malefic for Taurus, also disposits Ketu who himself is an indicator of secrecy, intrigues, scandal, suspicion, deceit and so forth. Jupiter's aspect on 10th house is worth considering! Regarding the (True) nodal positions, Braha has this to say about Ketu in 11th; "The person will be successful in his undertakings and fortunate in gaining wealth." And Rahu in 5th in sign of Virgo is said to give wealth, difficulties in love affairs, a fine character with high morals and good integrity, strong sense of destiny etc.. One of his closest friends and trusted confidant (Elizabeth Taylor) says: "I think he's one of the finest people to hit this planet." But of course that doesn't really count for a great deal as such transgressions (if they exist) are not likely to be shared with anyone... Certainly it's an extremely interesting chart and provides a lot of room for thought. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Hello Krishnan, This is interesting here what you've said with respect to this now R Jupiter in Kanya and in Chitra's star needing to be analyzed in mundane matters, and the impact you see on Iraq as well as parts of India. Can you elaborate further for my understanding and your thoughts on why you mention this specifically in mundane matters? I would very much appreciate learning this and your insights. I see what you mean regarding Mars in Ketu star in fiery Sagittarius and Saturn in Punarvasu in Gemini. This is a good example of your thoughts on how these transits could effect mundane matters, many thanks. Peace, Patrice ____________ Hello Patrice, Jupiter in Virgo just assumed retrograde motion in Kanya in chitta nakshtra,the first charan.lord is mars.It's influence in mundane is a matter to be really needs analysis.It's impact on Iraq as well as part of India has also toe be watched.Aspect of mars in ketu nakshtra on saturn in punarvasu in a Airy sign is an other intersting issue to find how a fiery sign of sagittarus and the airy sign of mercury will go together.A certain caution for all air travellers in south east and westren countries. Thanx krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Dear Patrice and All, As always your post is illuminating. I wish I had a little more energy today to answer properly but for now just a little more emphasis on 9th house if I may. Others may of course disagree with me but I strongly believe that, although bad things can (and do) happen to people, the integrity of the person himself is reflected very much through 9th house. In MJ's chart 9th house is strengthened by aspect of its lord and these qualities (of his) are further strengthened with aspect on lagna etc.. Certainly 9th lord's discomfort (in 7th) in sign of great enemy cannot be denied and I think we see this clearly in his failed marriages. Mother's role in regards to religious upbringing is reflected with Moon occupying constellation of Jupiter (in 10th) in sign of Saturn...and so forth. Father's authority is seen with Sun aspecting Moon from 4th, and, with ME/SU conjunction in nakshatra of Ketu, the lies and deceit you speak of are also evident. The connection with elder brothers in this regard is born out with Ketu in 11th and so forth. It's a sad affair really whichever way you look at it... I'll leave it here for now though and hope for a better day tomorrow...a little more energetic :-)) Thank you again Patrice, I do enjoy reading your (and everyone's) posts. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "Patrice Curry" <patricecurry <jyotish-vidya> Thursday, February 03, 2005 12:00 AM Re: Re: Michael Jackson: True or Mean Node Hi Dear Wendy, It is a very interesting chart, yes, and I found this current conjunction of his progressed dasa Moon with natal Ketu interesting with respect to your post regarding nodes. Thanks for your point about Saturn in his chart and it's yogakaraka place in the chart. It's interesting to view it as well from the perspective of his father. I did recently see a more in depth television production on his early years and his father ~ his relationship with his father from a very early age. At least as much as we can really glean from any type of show like that, but it seems well known that his father was extremely tough and overbearing on him and the entire household and also some very complicated dynamics going on. I'm trying to understand this Saturn... PS: >>Jupiter's aspect on 10th house is worth considering!<< In terms of F/M Jupiter's potential to harm to his career/reputation... Also this is a very good point about F/M Jupiter and his potential to harm his career/reputation. 11H is also Badhaka and further therefore Jupiter (and Ketu) Badhakesh in this chart. My feelings also are that these past couple years since around May of 2003, his PDM would have been approaching his natal Ketu and this PDM also growing into a deeper Gandanta position which will now continue for some time. These must have been difficult years for him and suffering mentally and will continue to be for some time. Seeing this situation with progressed Moon has been helpful to me as there has been a lot of talk and speculation over these past years about this with Michael and public questioning of his mental state, whether there has been any validity to this questioning or not. I don't know how much he is in the news and media under normal conditions elsewhere out of the US. I understand at this time his court hearing and life is being reported everywhere. The program I watched recently covered in more detail and tried to explain his upbringing and the effects of his mother becoming a Jehovah's Witness and then her deep influence of this on Michael. This religion's beliefs to not celebrate birthdays and holidays and the demands for strict and pure beliefs and living as well as the severe results if one doesn't follow these rules. Also the conflicts he was exposed to so young considering this along then with his father's reported moral failings and the lies that his father asked of him to spin at a very delicate age, so this very deep and complex conflict going on. By all reports he took his mother's religious beliefs and developed his own very seriously and the beliefs of their church. The results of this yogakarka Saturn? It continued to show how once hugely successful, the 'rules' were stretched somewhat then by his mother as well. The point of the program was to show this situation that this very sensitive boy was raised in and how these effects are considered to have affected Michael most strongly as the most sensitive of the children, and also his delicate ages where so much of this was experienced. That along with what could only be considered sexual abuse which he was repeatedly exposed to via both the places where they performed, at such a young age, and also what went on with both his father and brothers while away from the home with Michael in the room. There's a pretty tight aspect from a strong Mars in the 12H in own sign on this Saturn in Mars sign Scorpio (as well as the mutual one you pointed to with Mars and Jupiter, also Mars aspects Venus). Saturn is in great enemies house as well. I do see your point regarding yogakaraka and ethics and piety also, and needed and appreciate your reminder of this. Perhaps this again showing this deep conflict onto Michael's 1H??? ..Lagna is in Moon's star... And this coming from Michael's father?? as well as mother's subtle involvement with this conflict (Saturn in Mercury's star as well as 10H aspect onto 4H.) although mother much more Satvic and trying to impart this purity (Sun in Leo and Moolatrikona). Also Michael's closeness to his mother and his view of her... Another interesting thing on Monday as the trial jury selection began is that Michael's 12H Mars was transiting exactly at MB point in his 8H while in this nearly exact 5H trine with his R Gandanta Mercury.. and Mercury's exchange at nakshatra level with severely Gandanta Ketu. This along with all else I mentioned in previous post. Very interesting what you've written regarding Braha's words on Ketu in 11H and Rahu in 5H. Thanks for your interesting post ;-) Kindest wishes, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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