Astro groups - united or devided?

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Trivedi,

Unlike the biased venom spitting of some of the other group members,

your criticism is decently worded and based on some logic. Hence I

thought of replying to it.

1st – Re: your comment “…….it cannot absolve you of your

intentions..” – In my very next mail I made it clear that, I

definitely overdid it by mentioning the police case against Sanjay

Rath’s fraud and I am sorry about the slip. But, in view of the manner

in which I am being attacked, let me ask a blunt question - People &

the press are discussing and printing the fraud cases of PM’s, CM’s,

IAS & IPS officials and other public figures. The sex life of US

presidents like Kennedy & Clinton are printed world wide. If that is

not a crime, how come this one sentence of mine is a crime of which

I “cannot absolve myself” as you put it and I am paraded as a villain

with malevolent intensions??!! Is there a “Fatwa” or a “Hukumman” in

these groups like - “Though shalt not utter a word against ………”??

This Sudeep Suri was sneering at Mr. Rath in his 1st mail. After I

gave him a piece of my mind in his 2nd mail he did a bit of back track

and said Rath was right in his analysis of Mercury pratyantar but his

Ketu pratyantar analysis was wrong. And when several others raised

their voice he actually apologized and admitted he should not have

brought it up in public (of course with a few backdoor snide remarks

at me and more CYA about professional discussion intensions only).

Like it or not, my hitting back strongly has worked.

You people are so prompt and vociferously strong in defense of Rath.

How come nothing is said about Sudeep Suri throwing insults at 2

famous astrologers like K.N.Rao and Dr.Chaturvedi? Not only this Suri

but even his father and also his friend’s son took free predictions

from K.N.Rao and then he is ridiculed in return!! K.N.Rao is the man

who started the Vedic astrology course at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. The

students he produced include some of the most well known names like

S.Ganesh, Dr.K.S.Charak, Deepak Kapoor, Vinay Aditya, Col.A.K.Gour,

M.S.Mehata and Shivaraj Sharma to name just a few. His influence and

close association with the top BJP’s leaders led to astrology being

introduced as a recognized course in UGC, which is a major milestone

for Vedic astrology. Dr Chaturvedi is another highly respected

astrologer of Lal Bahadur Shastri Academy in Delhi. What about Suri’s

vulgar words about him? This is what Sudeep Suri says “Look at DR

Chaturvedi of Lal bahadur shastri academy in Delhi , I consulted him

in Dec 2003, The FAT, UNCOUTH FELLOW arrogantly wrote his predictions

to me HE WAS A JOKE” When Dr.Chaturvedi was insulted in this vulgar

fashion, what did you do Mr.Trivedi?? There is a nice excuse - “They

were being murdered in the other house and not mine!!”

In fact ridiculing famous astrologers based on their failed

predictions appears to be the favourite past time of this Sudeep Suri.

This is what he writes in another astrology about Bejan Daruwala in

another group (-Vedic Astrology) ---

“sudeep suri <vaudeva99 wrote:

 

TO RESPECTED LIST MEMBERS

If any of you follow cricket closely then you would be aware that

approx 10 Days before the Final of Asia cup ( 1St AUGUST) an eminent

astrologer of KOLKOTTA came on ESPN Star sports and very arrogantly

predicted that India will beat Pakistan and that on 1August India will

win the ASIA CUP, and WHAT HAPPENED ? INDIA LOST TO PAKISTAN and ALSO

LOST THE ASIA CUP on 1AUGUST. BUT EVEN more ridiculous is the

interview of FAMOUS ASTROLOGER BEJAN

DARUWALLA WHO PREDICTED INDIA WILL WIN ASIA CUP,INFACT DARUWALLA

PREDICTED THAT VAJPAYEE WILL BE PM AND INDIA WILL LOOSE TO PAKISTAN IN

CRICKET SERIES IN APRIL2004(he said this on TV IN MARCH 2004).I AM

PUTTING HIS INTERVIEW HERE readers judge ,THESE FAMOUS COMMERCIAL

ASTROLOGERS ARE THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF JYOTISH.”

In view of this the suggestions by some group members that we should

analyze the reasons and give predictions to Mr. Sudeep Suri and wipe

his tears is hilarious.

There are two types of sins – sins of commission where you commit a

crime and sins of omissions, where you don’t do anything when a crime

in being committed and allow it to happen. Like all mortals, in a

moment of weakness Rath committed one and has suffered enough for it

already. But the sins of omission the group members are committing by

allowing people like Sudeep Suri to murder astrologers and astrology

are far more worse and damaging.

I protested because I love and I respect my profession. Whether I like

Rath or not, I stood by him as a fellow professional. According to me

another professional astrologer’s predictions and astrology should not

be ridiculed in an astrology group discussion forum. This professional

ethics stand of mine appears to be beyond the understanding of some of

the web-browsing modern generation who cannot look beyond their nose

and think beyond their groups.

The lawyers also have their strong differences and rivalries. But when

the famous and powerful Kiran Bedi insulted and ill-treated one of

them, all the lawyers united and made a nation wide agitation to teach

her a lesson. Unfortunately we astrologers are busy pulling down each

other and sit within our ego groups. That is why, people exporting

brass beads and clay bangles have more respect today in our society,

than a pundit practicing a traditional Vedic profession!

2nd Re your comment: “No one is an unlettered person here or other

groups…….” – I don’t expect illiterate villagers to log into internet.

But I you will agree that it is the educated and the elites who commit

the biggest crimes and swindles with all kinds of motives. The nobles

who crucified Christ and the people who jailed Copernicus were also

quite literate! The greatest philosophers have argued about the

scriptures. If Adi Sankaras Adwaitism is right it doesn’t mean the

rest philosophers are illiterate and if the Vaishnavas are right it

doesn’t mean the Shivites are illiterate. There is the other side of

the coin. It is not necessary that the tails view is the only right

ones.

3rd Re your comment: “Also you posted messages in all groups….” Yes I

did. A protesting message like this I felt must go to the other

related astrology groups. It is called cross-group posting.

permits it. A lot of groups permit it. I have received several

messages from these astrology groups, which were cc posted to other

groups. In fact, it will be a very good idea if all the major Vedic

astrology groups link to each other and every one has assess to the

postings done in all the groups. If everyone can read the sutras and

applications and arguments posted in all the groups, it’s really

worthwhile. It will be a wonderful day, when a fellow presents his

horoscope in a group and K.N.Rao and Sanjay Rath with two different

approaches of Jaimini system, Dr.Choudhury with his Systems Approach,

A chatuvedi with traditional Parashari system and an Aiyer with

Krishnamurthy system present their analysis and Das Goravani chips in

with a westerners view of Vedic astrology!!

But to have such a dream come true, we have to shed the self-promoting

ego cocoons we have wrapped around us, and raise above the present

petty Koopastha Mandooka type Guru groupism. Just a bit of food for

your thought: Try and imagine the fate of India if all the kings had

their individual kingdoms, as they demanded, after our independence!

So do you think we astrologers should follow Sardar Patel’s policy or

the kings group policy!?

Lastly your comment: “It would be worthwhile instead, if you post some

articles in groups about astrology rather than such sweet worded

attacks.” – I have posted about a dozen basic free lessons about Vedic

astrology, in my website www.astrojyoti.com There are a few articles

about the most common misconceptions. For those who want to learn more

about Vedic astrology, I posted the 12 major Sashtras of Vedic

astrology, which anyone can read free. You can find some of the most

commonly prescribed mantras, 60 of the most popular and important

stotras both in text and in mp3. You’ll also find Gita and Ramcharita

manas. Posting these on the web for everyone is better than posting

for a few on one of these groups.

Recently I have also taken up the task of building a website for the

All India Brahmin Maha Sabha. It is an organization started by the

great Madan Mohan Malaviya. His Holiness the Shankaracharya of

Shringeri Sharada Peetha is its chief patron. A lot of the other state

and regional Brahmin societies and associations are affiliated to it.

The project involves putting on the web:- The 4 Vedas, All the

available Upanishads, the six important Gitas – Bhagavad Gita, Uddhava

Gita, Rama Gita, Vibhishana Gita, Asthavakra Gita and Awadhoota Gita,

Ramayana, Mahabharat, Bhagavatam, the 52 Puranas, Manu Sastra, in-

depth articles about the various Hindu philosophies like Dwaita,

Advaita, Visisthadwaita, Charvaka, Sankhya etc., detailed articles

about ayurveda, yoga & medtation, astrology, Nritya & Sangeeta sastra

including various instruments, famous dancers & composers profiles and

their compositions, etc. In fact it’ll be a site where anyone looking

for anything about Hinduism can find authentic material. First in

English, then in hindi and then in all Indian languages.

I am doing it free for them. I consider this as worthwhile

involvement. I hope you’ll not find any vested interests in it.

Several eminent scholars have already started contributing authentic

material and talks with the deans and professors of reputed

institutions are going on. But the subjects and the scope being so

vast and great, there is always room for more. Those who have in depth

knowledge of any of the above-mentioned subjects are welcome to

contribution. This is voluntary work for a good non profit cause and

hence there will be no payment. However the contribution will be

acknowledged with your name on the web page along with a brief profile

link. Please check before sending contributions to avoid duplication

and disappointment. No anti-anything articles will be entertained and

all articles will be subject to editing.

>From the point of view of astrology the following will be of interest:

1)Classics: Brihat Samhita, Phaladeepika, Manasagari, Muhurta

Chintamani, Gochara Phaladeepika.

2)Lessons on various aspects of astrology.

3)Authentic quotations from ancient scriptures like Ramayan,

Mahabharat, Bhagavatam etc where astrological facts or combinations or

advise etc are mentioned. The name of the scripture, chapter and the

verses must be quoted. Please don’t quote astrology texts.

4)Authentic historic data available about Vedic astrology, pictures

etc and the source available – like museums etc. Be specific please.

All mails must be sent to brahminmahasabha

With regards

Pandit S.P.Tata

-------------------------

---

Dear Mr.Tata,

May be what you are saying has some truth in it but it cannot absolve

you of your intentions.

Mentioning about court case and other things were out of the context.

Also you posted messages in all groups where they didnot belong.

No one is an unlettered person here or other groups. Every one

understands what is meant is different than what is written in your

posting.

Since such things like failure of predictions has been happening in

every astrologer's life, it is not worth mentioning. Hence may be no

one took notice of posting by Suri ji.

Your reply to Tanveer is also at Tangent. It would be worthwhile

instead, if you post some articles in groups about astrology rather

than such sweet worded attacks.

Harish

--- "Pandit S.P.Tata" <sptata wrote:

Dear Tanvir,

This has reference to your attached message, where by you did not

approve my reply and explanation for posting. As a group

owner/moderator you have the right to criticize a group members

posting contents, and you did it in the group messaging. I too have a

right to give a reply/explanation to you criticism it in the group

message board. However you denied me that. Yours is a moderated group

and you are the owner & moderator. So my 1st message was seen and

approved by you for posting. After that you wrote a nicely worded

criticizing lecture about my intensions (as you presumed them) and

posted it in the message board. After that you allowed several group

members to post messages praising you and denouncing me. But when I

gave the reply with reasons you blocked it. From this it is obvious

that your intensions are to project yourself as some kind of a fair-

minded peacemaker. What is worse is that you and your group members

accuse me of vested interests.

The basic fact involved is that, in an astrology group Mr. Sudeep Suri

behaved in an unprofessional manner and wrote about a fellow

traditional Vedic astrologer – Sanjay Rath - in a sarcastic and

insulting manner and I objected to it on the professional ethics

grounds. But you and the others in the group dint lift a finger at

Sudeep Suri but started accusing me of all kind of things. The result

is that he is now writing more crap about other famous astrologers in

his messages. In the next posting what he wrote about a reputed

astrologers like K.N.Rao and Dr.Chaturvedi is both shocking and

disgusting. This is the kind of shameless things he is writing now - -

"Look at DR Chaturvedi of Lal bahadur Shastri academy in Delhi, I

consulted him in Dec 2003, The FAT, UNCOUTH FELLOW arrogantly wrote

his predictions to me HE WAS A JOKE"--- This just about short of Ma

Behen ki…. type gali.

Anyone is free to like or dislike an astrologer and free to criticize

their methods, knowledge and predictions etc. But when you run these

groups wit a lot of Dholak about tradition, culture and Vedic heritage

etc., one would expect that the discussion would take place in a

decent language and in a civilized manner. Not in this kind of

language. Its not a prono site where you can write vulgar stuff.

Fellows like him get away with it because group owners pay lip service

to promoting astrology, but when reputed traditional Vedic astrologers

of India are insulted like this in public forums, you don’t have the

guts to straighten out the fellow insulting them, and what is more you

criticize people like me who object to his nonsense.

Most of the group owners ride the Vedic astrology bandwagon and try to

become cult gurus. It definitely suites their purpose when reputed

astrologers are brought down.

I appreciate the fact that a young Bangladesh Muslim boy is taking so

much interest in Vedic astrology. You are young enough to be my son in

age. So let me give you 2 pieces of advice on this friendship day.

1.You have a good chart, which holds good promise. But part of the

future is in our own hands and depends on our actions. That’s the

karma part – whether you take the right turn or the left one. And when

you take the turn, make sure that your vision is not clouded by

misplaced intentions and wrong judgments due to inexperience.

2. Day in and day out, our life is merged in the prosaic and banal

mundane details and has nothing of no significance to offer. One

rarely gets any chances to display any great acts of heroism, self-

sacrifice, and bravery etc. But once in a while you do get a chance or

two to do something positive. Nothing great really but a few small

things. Like picking up an injured man from the roadside or shooing

off the eve teaser or kicking away the roadside dada harassing an old

man. When you get a chance like that stand up and act like a man.

Because if you don’t, the society will not improve and soon the

ruffians will rule. Apart from that, no matter what others know or say

you’ll go down in your own esteem. What you and the other group

members think or say will not make any difference to me because I did

what I sincerely believed is the right thing to say. But I write this

to you because I have visited your Dhaka several times and was very

sad to see the amount of poverty there. Its really heart breaking to

see 13-14 years old girls who are divorced and working as child labor

in garment factories. Even worse is the plight of the ones who

illegally cross the border and work as servants and live in fear of

being caught. If youngsters like you learn to stand up and fight,

things will definitely improve.

After this mail I am unsubscribing to your group.

Attached bellow is the discussion thread.

7/31/2004 06:15:18 -0000

"Tanvir Chowdhury" <lord_narayana

"Pandit S.P.Tata" <sptata

Message not approved: Re mudslinging at

=== message truncated ===

 

 

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