[SJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

[Guest guest]

Dear Drupad,

Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to be

cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when the child

draws first breath.

Chandrashekhar.

drupadupadhyaya wrote:

Respected Gurus,

I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is it

mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be taken

as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one part of

his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the

cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a

lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly guide

me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on this.

Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly clarify.

Thanks & Regards

Drupad

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar,

 

I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion that isn't analogous

with yours but this is one such instance.

My considered view is that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets

detached from the mother; that happens at the instant when the body is outside

the mother... unless you the vet refute it (you must have delivered a mammal or

two in your day, right?)! In Caesarean section births, it has to be when the

umbilical cord is snapped. The only reason why I've to take a different stand

on this is because a child can well be born dead, which means it won't take any

breath at all. Harrumphing already?

 

Warm regards,

 

Ramapriya

 

-

Chandrashekhar

 

Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Dear Drupad,Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to be

cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when the child draws

first breath.Chandrashekhar.drupadupadhyaya wrote:

Respected Gurus,I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is

it mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be taken as the

time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one part of his body comes

out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath or should birth time be

taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the cases, it makes little difference

but in some cases, it does make a lot of difference especially when the

nakshatra changes. Kindly guide me whether there is any definite authoritative

statement on this. Please advice me as to your views on the subject also.

Kindly clarify.Thanks & RegardsDrupad[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya

namah]Send a blank mailTo : -To

: [Om Kleem Krishnaaya

Jagannathaaya namah]Send a blank mailTo :

-To :

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Rampriya,

I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when

the placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically.

Please go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of

human species) has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.

By the way many reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were

first discovered by Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much

difference between reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the

Bovine variety and Humans.

Chandrashekhar.

Ramapriya D wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

 

I know I'm treading

thin ice when I've to give an opinion that isn't analogous with yours

but this is one such instance.

My considered view is

that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets detached from the

mother; that happens at the instant when the body is outside the

mother... unless you the vet refute it (you must have delivered a

mammal or two in your day, right?)! In Caesarean section births, it has

to be when the umbilical cord is snapped. The only reason why I've to take a different stand

on this is because a child can well be born dead, which means it won't

take any breath at all. Harrumphing

already?

 

Warm regards,

 

Ramapriya

 

-----

Original Message -----

 

Chandrashekhar

To:

 

Sent:

Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

Subject:

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Dear Drupad,

Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to be

cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when the child

draws first breath.

Chandrashekhar.

drupadupadhyaya wrote:

Respected

Gurus,

I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is it

mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be taken

as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one part of

his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the

cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a

lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly guide

me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on this.

Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly clarify.

Thanks & Regards

Drupad

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Guest guest]

Dear Dhamakesin,

I think the confusion is on account of clarity of thought. If one

accepts that cessation of breath is death, only intake of first breath

could be birth is my logic. Unless one defines what is death, its

corollary birth could not be defined. There is another reason on a more

practical level and one should try to understand why, most of the

authorities did not feel it necessary to define the moment of birth.

Of course as I said this is my personal opinion and other could have

their own opinions and reason for believing otherwise.

Chandrashekhar.

dhamakesin wrote:

Dear Ramapriya and Chandrashekhar,

It is an interesting question about how to define the instant of

birth. You know there is some variation in the method of births in

humans and placental animals. In some animals the cord breaks

naturally, and in others they chew it off. Of course in humans the

cord is usually cut. There is a method of birth called 'lotus birth'

where the cord is not cut but naturally separates. The placenta is

delivered about 10-15 minutes after delivery, and the placenta is

kept with the baby until it naturally separates (about four days

later).

Some consider the moment of birth as the touching of the baby's head

to the ground during a squatting birth. You could just say the birth

time is the moment the baby is completely outside (breathing or

not). Could this question be answered by considering different times

for various charts for babies that experienced different styles of

birth? We have the following possibilities:

head touches the ground (may not occur in all cases)

completely outside mother

first breath (may not occur in all cases)

separation of cord

Obtaining this information would be rare. This uncertainty favors

rectifying all charts.

Sincerely,

Dhamakesin

, "Ramapriya D" <hubli@h...>

wrote:

> Dear Chandrashekhar,

>

> I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion that

isn't analogous with yours but this is one such instance.

> My considered view is that the baby is born the instant the

placenta gets detached from the mother; that happens at the instant

when the body is outside the mother... unless you the vet refute it

(you must have delivered a mammal or two in your day, right?)! In

Caesarean section births, it has to be when the umbilical cord is

snapped. The only reason why I've to take a different stand on this

is because a child can well be born dead, which means it won't take

any breath at all. Harrumphing already?

>

> Warm regards,

>

> Ramapriya

>

> -

> Chandrashekhar

>

> Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

>

>

> Dear Drupad,

> Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth

to

be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when the

child draws first breath.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> drupadupadhyaya wrote:

>

> Respected Gurus,

>

> I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing.

Is

it

> mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be

taken

> as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one

part of

> his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first

breath

> or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most

of

the

> cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does

make a

> lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes.

Kindly

guide

> me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on

this.

> Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly

clarify.

>

> Thanks & Regards

> Drupad

>

> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramapriya and Chandrashekhar,

 

It is an interesting question about how to define the instant of

birth. You know there is some variation in the method of births in

humans and placental animals. In some animals the cord breaks

naturally, and in others they chew it off. Of course in humans the

cord is usually cut. There is a method of birth called 'lotus birth'

where the cord is not cut but naturally separates. The placenta is

delivered about 10-15 minutes after delivery, and the placenta is

kept with the baby until it naturally separates (about four days

later).

 

Some consider the moment of birth as the touching of the baby's head

to the ground during a squatting birth. You could just say the birth

time is the moment the baby is completely outside (breathing or

not). Could this question be answered by considering different times

for various charts for babies that experienced different styles of

birth? We have the following possibilities:

 

head touches the ground (may not occur in all cases)

completely outside mother

first breath (may not occur in all cases)

separation of cord

 

Obtaining this information would be rare. This uncertainty favors

rectifying all charts.

 

Sincerely,

Dhamakesin

 

, "Ramapriya D" <hubli@h...> wrote:

> Dear Chandrashekhar,

>

> I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion that

isn't analogous with yours but this is one such instance.

> My considered view is that the baby is born the instant the

placenta gets detached from the mother; that happens at the instant

when the body is outside the mother... unless you the vet refute it

(you must have delivered a mammal or two in your day, right?)! In

Caesarean section births, it has to be when the umbilical cord is

snapped. The only reason why I've to take a different stand on this

is because a child can well be born dead, which means it won't take

any breath at all. Harrumphing already?

>

> Warm regards,

>

> Ramapriya

>

> -

> Chandrashekhar

>

> Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

>

>

> Dear Drupad,

> Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to

be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when the

child draws first breath.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> drupadupadhyaya wrote:

>

> Respected Gurus,

>

> I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is

it

> mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be

taken

> as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one

part of

> his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first

breath

> or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of

the

> cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does

make a

> lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly

guide

> me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on

this.

> Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly

clarify.

>

> Thanks & Regards

> Drupad

>

> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

[Guest guest]

Dear All.

Forgive me for intruding on your dialogue but surely it is not logical to

use the cutting of the placenta as the indication of birth in the case of a

child who was nursing from the mother for about 15 mins before the placenta

was cut? She was obviously alive - living, breathing and feeding before

the cord was cut. I can vouch for this as the child was my daughter! (She

didn't cry either so first breath is also not precisely timeable!)

Another point to consider is that the placenta, formed after implantation of

the embry, is, i understand, developed from tissue originating from the

mother and from the embry, so can it be considered entirely as 'mother'?

Love

gili

 

 

>Chandrashekhar <boxdel

>

>

>Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

>Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:48:30 +0530

>

>Dear Rampriya,

>I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when the

>placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically. Please

>go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human

>species) has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.

>By the way many reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were

>first discovered by Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much

>difference between reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the

>Bovine variety and Humans.

>Chandrashekhar.

>

>Ramapriya D wrote:

>

>>Dear Chandrashekhar,

>> I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion that isn't

>>analogous with yours but this is one such instance.

>>My considered view is that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets

>>detached from the mother; that happens at the instant when the body is

>>outside the mother... unless you the vet refute it (you must have

>>delivered a mammal or two in your day, right?)! In Caesarean section

>>births, it has to be when the umbilical cord is snapped. The only reason

>>why I've to take a different stand on this is because a child can well be

>>born dead, which means it won't take any breath at all. Harrumphing

>>already?

>> Warm regards,

>> Ramapriya

>>

>>

>> -

>> ** Chandrashekhar <boxdel

>> *To:*

>> <>

>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

>> *Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

>>

>> Dear Drupad,

>> Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to

>> be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when

>> the child draws first breath.

>> Chandrashekhar.

>>

>> drupadupadhyaya wrote:

>>

>>> Respected Gurus,

>>>

>>> I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is it

>>> mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be taken

>>> as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one

>>> part of

>>> his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

>>> or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the

>>> cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a

>>> lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly

>>> guide

>>> me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on this.

>>> Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly

>>> clarify.

>>>

>>> Thanks & Regards

>>> Drupad

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

>>> Send a blank mail

>>> To : -

>>> To :

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

>> Send a blank mail

>> To : -

>> To :

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

>> Send a blank mail

>> To : -

>> To :

>>

>>

>> * Sponsor*

>>

>> click here

>>

>><http://us.ard./SIG=12996jhrq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=grou\

ps/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089656068/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.\

>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>------

>> * Links*

>>

>> *

>> /

>> *

>>

>>

>><?subject=Un>

>> *

>>Terms of

>> Service <>.

>>

>>

 

_______________

MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months

FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar,

 

Yes I don't seem to recall Dr. Banerjee's posts. But I was not even suggesting

that vets wouldn't know it - the exact opposite, actually! I know for a fact

that most mammals are indeed essentially built like humans, with a few changes

here and there. I had a dog and know that first-hand too. I've felt for long

now that for ones so good, vets in medicine (like scorers in cricket) have been

undeservingly in the shadows.

 

Warm regards,

 

Ramapriya

 

-

Chandrashekhar

 

Monday, July 12, 2004 12:18 AM

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Dear Rampriya,I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and

when the placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically.

Please go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human

species) has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.By the way many

reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were first discovered by

Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much difference between

reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the Bovine variety and

Humans.Chandrashekhar.

[Guest guest]

and god said let there be light and there was light..

 

i think it is the natural energy packets( photons) that hit the human skin first

that can be taken into

account as the time of birth..

the reasons y most peple think that the time the head of the child comes out

first as the time of birth is that

1) in womb the child is protected from the outside maya or whatever science will

able to give reasoning in near future .. .

2) as soon as the head comes out .. the gravitational forces start having

impact on the child (above all its the planets that control ).

 

We believe in science.. bcoz it has to be and has been proved real time...

tryign to give scientific explanation rather than saying that this is a cosmic

science and is different.. may be instead of just believing in what the texts

say we should be thinking wat logical though process has occured in the minds

of those sages who laid down the principles of vedic astrology....

one thing India has been laggin is documenting stuff and puttin it

on paper. this has been happening since ages. we dont know our history .. we

get to know about indian history more from documentation of invaders from

other countries than ourselves.

There are some friends of mine who argue that the standards of the people from

post vedic age is so low that we r not able to concentrate enough on things.

During the vedic age people , where there was a true relation of 'Guru

and disciples' everything was taught verbatim and things were to be memorised

than puttin it on paper.

Now its a well known fact that among disturbences of the electric era and amidst

this chaos we cannot memorise things .. but documentation will be of great help

... ( that example of VedicMathematics being put out inthe text form ).

coming back to light.. being vegetarian is always encouraged bcoz..

we humans never have the process to capture the energy packets directly.. plants

are the closest and secondary form of this.

i.e photons from sun to plants to humans ( vegetarians )

sun to plants to animals to human ( non vegetarians ).

this simple a reason should be convincing enough why we should prefer to

vegetarian food to non veg.............. forget environ'mental' activists ..

here the feelings of killing animals and all is secondary.. if there were to b

only few plants and tons of animals they would be doing the other way

round..ecnouraging non-veg ... but from a perspective of science the above

argument stands even if the balance sheet changes in whatever way..

 

once i read an article of an astrologer criticising things like "...its very

well noticed in the clear sky that the spread of the constellations in the sky

is not even then y should the house have equal share in divisions.?" i mean

if one doesnt think this way we cannot correct things.. anyway i am not sayign

that everythin can be put down precisely on paper and in formulas .. there is

this factor of intuition which cannot be matched .

 

anyways i think i have shifted threads asynchronously..

i myself never try to make any predictions bcoz i an unholy junkie out there

tripping on time.. just 2 say i got little respect for science so didnt want

to fiddle around. so i request someone to let me know wats in my line of career

up next attacehd my jh chart.

 

Jai Shri Ram.

subzero

PS: thanks for bearing

 

 

 

 

Ramapriya D <hubli (AT) hotpop (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

 

Yes I don't seem to recall Dr. Banerjee's posts. But I was not even suggesting

that vets wouldn't know it - the exact opposite, actually! I know for a fact

that most mammals are indeed essentially built like humans, with a few changes

here and there. I had a dog and know that first-hand too. I've felt for long

now that for ones so good, vets in medicine (like scorers in cricket) have been

undeservingly in the shadows.

 

Warm regards,

 

Ramapriya

 

-

Chandrashekhar

 

Monday, July 12, 2004 12:18 AM

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Dear Rampriya,I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and

when the placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically.

Please go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human

species) has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.By the way many

reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were first discovered by

Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much difference between

reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the Bovine variety and

Humans.Chandrashekhar.[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]Send a blank

mailTo : -To :

 

 

 

Attachment: (application/octet-stream) Subzero.jhd [not stored]

[Guest guest]

Dear Gili,

Being a mother could you tell me whether your daughter did not make any

noise at all for first 15 minutes when she was nursing. It is generally

the case with human babies that they utter some sound or even cry out

when first birth is drawn.

Chandrashekhar.

gilimary alvey wrote:

Dear All.

Forgive me for intruding on your dialogue but surely it is not logical to use

the cutting of the placenta as the indication of birth in the case of a child

who was nursing from the mother for about 15 mins before the placenta was cut?

She was obviously alive - living, breathing and feeding before the cord was

cut. I can vouch for this as the child was my daughter! (She didn't cry either

so first breath is also not precisely timeable!)

Another point to consider is that the placenta, formed after implantation of the

embry, is, i understand, developed from tissue originating from the mother and

from the embry, so can it be considered entirely as 'mother'?

Love

gili

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

 

 

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:48:30 +0530

Dear Rampriya,

I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when the

placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically. Please go

through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human species)

has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.

By the way many reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were first

discovered by Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much difference

between reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the Bovine variety and

Humans.

Chandrashekhar.

Ramapriya D wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion that isn't analogous

with yours but this is one such instance.

My considered view is that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets

detached from the mother; that happens at the instant when the body is outside

the mother... unless you the vet refute it (you must have delivered a mammal or

two in your day, right?)! In Caesarean section births, it has to be when the

umbilical cord is snapped. The only reason why I've to take a different stand

on this is because a child can well be born dead, which means it won't take any

breath at all. Harrumphing already?

Warm regards,

Ramapriya

-

** Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

*To:*

<>

*Sent:* Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

*Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Dear Drupad,

Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to

be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when

the child draws first breath.

Chandrashekhar.

drupadupadhyaya wrote:

Respected Gurus,

I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is it

mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be taken

as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one

part of

his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the

cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a

lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly

guide

me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on this.

Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly

clarify.

Thanks & Regards

Drupad

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

* Sponsor*

 

click here

<http://us.ard./SIG=12996jhrq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089656068/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.>

------

* Links*

*

/

*

 

<?subject=Un>

* Terms of

Service <>.

_______________

MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months

FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a

clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar.

Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!

http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/C9XolB/TM

--~-> [Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To : Links

<*>

/

<*>

 

<*> Your

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramapriya,

Lest you misunderstand, I am no veterinarian, only a breeder and for

some time a dairyman.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Ramapriya D wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

 

Yes I don't

seem to recall Dr. Banerjee's posts. But I was not even suggesting that

vets wouldn't know it - the exact opposite, actually! I know for a fact

that most mammals are indeed essentially built like humans, with a few

changes here and there. I had a dog and know that first-hand too. I've

felt for long now that for ones so good, vets in medicine (like scorers

in cricket) have been undeservingly in the shadows.

 

Warm regards,

 

Ramapriya

 

-----

Original Message -----

 

Chandrashekhar

To:

 

Sent:

Monday, July 12, 2004 12:18 AM

Subject:

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Dear Rampriya,

I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when

the placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically.

Please go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of

human species) has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.

By the way many reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were

first discovered by Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much

difference between reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the

Bovine variety and Humans.

Chandrashekhar.

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave

Namah

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Dear Chandrashekharji,

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">My second son did not cry even after the doctors had

suctioned out the fluids! They had to smack and smack him and turned him upside

down! I panicked nevertheless, but timed his birth from the time they cut the

cord. This to me, signifies his independence from his

mother (me).

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Then when he learnt to speak early, he couldn’t

stop talking even though he was on a strict macrobiotic diet.

mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:

Tahoma;mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings">J

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">The timing of his events has satiated my curiosities.

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Love,

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Swee

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">

-----Original

Message-----

Chandrashekhar

[boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]

 

font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext">12 July 2004

color:windowtext">

color:windowtext">22:07

 

Re: [sJC: Achyuta

Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear Gili,

Being a mother could you tell me whether your daughter did not make any noise

at all for first 15 minutes when she was nursing. It is generally the case with

human babies that they utter some sound or even cry out when first birth is

drawn.

Chandrashekhar.

gilimary alvey wrote:

Dear All.Forgive me for intruding on your dialogue but surely it is not logical

to use the cutting of the placenta as the indication of birth in the case of a

child who was nursing from the mother for about 15 mins before the placenta was

cut? She was obviously alive - living, breathing and feeding before the cord

was cut. I can vouch for this as the child was my daughter! (She didn't cry

either so first breath is also not precisely timeable!)Another point to

consider is that the placenta, formed after implantation of the embry, is, i

understand, developed from tissue originating from the mother and from the

embry, so can it be considered entirely as 'mother'?Lovegili

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

To: Subject: Re: [sJC:

Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth TimingMon, 12 Jul 2004 01:48:30 +0530 Dear

Rampriya,I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when

the placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically. Please

go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human species)

has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.By the way many

reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were first discovered by

Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much difference between

reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the Bovine variety and

Humans.Chandrashekhar. Ramapriya D wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar, I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion

that isn't analogous with yours but this is one such instance.My considered

view is that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets detached from the

mother; that happens at the instant when the body is outside the mother...

unless you the vet refute it (you must have delivered a mammal or two in your

day, right?)! In Caesarean section births, it has to be when the umbilical cord

is snapped. The only reason why I've to take a different stand on this is

because a child can well be born dead, which means it won't take any breath at

all. Harrumphing already? Warm regards, Ramapriya ----- Original

Message ----- ** Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> *To:*

<>

*Sent:* Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul]

Correct Birth Timing Dear Drupad, Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge,

mentions the time of birth to be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal

opinion is it is when the child draws first breath. Chandrashekhar.

drupadupadhyaya wrote:

Respected Gurus, I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth

timing. Is it mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be

taken as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one part

of his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the cases,

it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a lot of

difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly guide me whether

there is any definite authoritative statement on this. Please advice me as to

your views on the subject also. Kindly clarify. Thanks & Regards

Drupad [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah] Send a blank mail

To : - To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah] Send a blank mail To

: - To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya

Jagannathaaya namah] Send a blank mail To :

- To :

* Sponsor*

click here

<http://us.ard./SIG=12996jhrq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089656068/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.>

------

* Links* *

/ * To

from this group, send an email to:

<?subject=Un>

* Terms of

Service <>.

_______________MSN 9 Dial-up

Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months FREE!

http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a

clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar.Now with Pop-Up Blocker.

Get it for

free!http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/C9XolB/TM--~->

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]Send a blank mailTo :

-To :

Links <*> To visit your

group on the web, go to: / <*> To

from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of is

subject to:

36.0pt">

10.0pt">

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To :

-

To :

 

[Guest guest]

To all contributing to the Correct Birth Timing discussion,

 

I personally think the first breath is the birth time to use because

it seem intuitive and connected to prana, but not because it is the

most logical. For your information, I found this quote about a birth

experience on anunda.com.

 

'I was at the birth also of all my children and one thing I noticed

is that the baby seems lifeless and does not appear alive until he

takes his first breath. One of my children spent over a minute in

this condition before he breathed and it made me quite nervous. I can

imagine how a parent would feel with a stillborn.'

 

Sincerely,

Dhamakesin

 

, Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

wrote:

> Dear Ramapriya,

> Lest you misunderstand, I am no veterinarian, only a breeder and

for

> some time a dairyman.

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> Ramapriya D wrote:

>

> > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> >

> > Yes I don't seem to recall Dr. Banerjee's posts. But I was not

even

> > suggesting that vets wouldn't know it - the exact opposite,

actually!

> > I know for a fact that most mammals are indeed essentially built

like

> > humans, with a few changes here and there. I had a dog and know

that

> > first-hand too. I've felt for long now that for ones so good,

vets in

> > medicine (like scorers in cricket) have been undeservingly in the

shadows.

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> > Ramapriya

> >

> >

> > -

> > ** Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

> > *To:*

> > <>

> > *Sent:* Monday, July 12, 2004 12:18 AM

> > *Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

> >

> > Dear Rampriya,

> > I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how

and

> > when the placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached

> > automatically. Please go through the archives and read what a

> > Medical Practitioner (of human species) has to say about

this. I

> > am sure you will be surprised.

> > By the way many reproductive techniques hailed as recent

findings

> > were first discovered by Breeders and Veterinarians. So there

is

> > not much difference between reproduction systems of mammals,

> > especially of the Bovine variety and Humans.

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> >

> >

> > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

> > Send a blank mail

> > To : -

> > To :

> >

> >

> > * Sponsor*

> >

> > click here

> >

<http://us.ard./SIG=1292d311c/M=295196.4901138.6071305.300117

6/D=groups/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089703127/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/

*http://companion.>

> >

> >

> >

> >

------

> > * Links*

> >

> > *

> > /

> >

> > *

> >

> > <?

subject=Un>

> >

> > * Terms of

> > Service <>.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar,

My daughter didn't cry until the staff nurse took her away from me after

about 20 mins or so. When she was born and the doctor said, 'it's a girl'

I remarked that she hadn't cried (which I had expected). He said, 'she's

breathing' and that was the time we recorded for her birth. If she made any

vocal sounds I was unaware of it. It was a natural childbirth with no

drugs. She nursed with no difficulties.

Love,

gili

 

 

 

>Chandrashekhar <boxdel

>

>

>Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

>Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:36:46 +0530

>

>Dear Gili,

>Being a mother could you tell me whether your daughter did not make any

>noise at all for first 15 minutes when she was nursing. It is generally the

>case with human babies that they utter some sound or even cry out when

>first birth is drawn.

>Chandrashekhar.

>

 

_______________

MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE

download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Hello everybody,

 

At the moment, I work with about 80 nurses and

midwifes. I had a small discussion about the way the

birth time is taken. Normally time is taken when the

baby comes out of the womb, no matter what the status

of the baby or the situation may be. As soon as the

baby pops out of the mother, the time is taken, and

than ‘within’ one minutes they do a quick check to see

if the baby is ok (if the baby is breathing, moving,

and all clear of any complications). Hope this is

useful.

 

Cheers. Vern

 

 

--- dhamakesin <dhamakesin wrote:

> To all contributing to the Correct Birth Timing

> discussion,

>

> I personally think the first breath is the birth

> time to use because

> it seem intuitive and connected to prana, but not

> because it is the

> most logical. For your information, I found this

> quote about a birth

> experience on anunda.com.

>

> 'I was at the birth also of all my children and one

> thing I noticed

> is that the baby seems lifeless and does not appear

> alive until he

> takes his first breath. One of my children spent

> over a minute in

> this condition before he breathed and it made me

> quite nervous. I can

> imagine how a parent would feel with a stillborn.'

>

> Sincerely,

> Dhamakesin

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <boxdel>

> wrote:

> > Dear Ramapriya,

> > Lest you misunderstand, I am no veterinarian, only

> a breeder and

> for

> > some time a dairyman.

> > Regards,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Ramapriya D wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> > >

> > > Yes I don't seem to recall Dr. Banerjee's posts.

> But I was not

> even

> > > suggesting that vets wouldn't know it - the

> exact opposite,

> actually!

> > > I know for a fact that most mammals are indeed

> essentially built

> like

> > > humans, with a few changes here and there. I had

> a dog and know

> that

> > > first-hand too. I've felt for long now that for

> ones so good,

> vets in

> > > medicine (like scorers in cricket) have been

> undeservingly in the

> shadows.

> > >

> > > Warm regards,

> > >

> > > Ramapriya

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > ** Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

> > > *To:*

> > > <>

> > > *Sent:* Monday, July 12, 2004 12:18 AM

> > > *Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul]

> Correct Birth Timing

> > >

> > > Dear Rampriya,

> > > I trust you have not read the comments of

> Dr. Banerjee on how

> and

> > > when the placenta is cut and whether or not

> it gets detached

> > > automatically. Please go through the

> archives and read what a

> > > Medical Practitioner (of human species) has

> to say about

> this. I

> > > am sure you will be surprised.

> > > By the way many reproductive techniques

> hailed as recent

> findings

> > > were first discovered by Breeders and

> Veterinarians. So there

> is

> > > not much difference between reproduction

> systems of mammals,

> > > especially of the Bovine variety and Humans.

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

> > > Send a blank mail

> > > To :

> -

> > > To :

>

> > >

> > >

> > > * Sponsor*

> > >

> > > click here

> > >

>

<http://us.ard./SIG=1292d311c/M=295196.4901138.6071305.300117

>

6/D=groups/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089703127/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/

> *http://companion.>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

 

> ------

> > > * Links*

> > >

> > > *

> > >

> /

> > >

> > > * To from this group, send an

> email to:

> > >

> > >

> <?

> subject=Un>

> > >

> > > * Your use of is subject to

> the Terms of

> > > Service

> <>.

> > >

> > >

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Om Namo Narayanaya

 

Pranams to all Gurus!

 

I have a question regarding birth timings. According

to the theory of relativity, "No two watches will

coincide in the timings they show" (unless otherwise

they are made to do so). Hence, how to we decide the

time? Say, the doctor/nurse's watch might show a

different time than the actual one. Hence, how do we

ensure that the horoscope is perfect?

 

Replies/Pointers to the same would gratefully be

appreciated.

 

Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu

 

Sreeram.

 

 

 

 

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

[Guest guest]

-

"vayikra vayikraa" <vayikraa

<>

 

 

> At the moment, I work with about 80 nurses and midwifes.

 

Hmmm, lucky guy )

Do you have a Mo-Ve association at 10th from AL, by any chance? )

 

Ramapriya

[Guest guest]

-

Sreeram Kidambi

 

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:16 PM

RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Om Namo Narayanaya> According to the theory of relativity, "No two watches will

coincide in the timings they show" (unless otherwisethey are made to do so).

Hence, how to we decide the time?

 

C'mon mate, we're talking time here, not accuracy of watches. If you were born

in a Government-run hospital in India, chances are that your time will be

recorded as earlier than it is if the birth is during the pre-lunch session,

and a lot later than actual if the birth is post-lunch. They always look to

arrive late and leave early, and watches get mysteriously tweaked too

That's also why the birth-time rectification craftsmen are in such healthy demand.

 

Also, your logic would suggest that since no two horoscopes can ever fully

coincide, their interpretation is always chancy. Right?

 

Cheers,

 

Ramapriya

[Guest guest]

Hi Swee,

 

Nice to see you back on the list after a longish sabbatical

 

Is independence from the mother linked to the cutting of the umbilicus or the

detaching of the placenta? I'd go for the latter, somehow.

Let me give a crude analogy. I shoot my neighbor today (Jul 13), the chap dies

after surviving on life support for ten days (Jul 23) and I'm convicted for

murder a month later (Aug 23). When then did the murder take place? I don't

know what the (criminal) law is, but you can't brand me absurd if I think it

occurred today.

If a baby's placenta is detached at 6.20 pm, the umbilical cord cut at 6.21 pm

and his first cry is at 6.22 pm, I'd be more inclined to record 6.20 as the

birth time. Why? A child can cry and lead life, even if inconveniently, if his

umbilical cord isn't cut and he has to dangle it around all the time. In more

unfortunate cases, a child may be born, umbilicus cut but there may be no

crying or breathing at all. BUT the child will in all cases have to detach from

its mom; that's the only single guarantee in childbirth. The following two

events might never occur, and still the birth would've taken place.

In the analogy, my pulling the trigger is the only certain thing, isn't it? The

bloke may not die and I may never be convicted! An attempted murder would still

be recorded. The comparison stops just a wee short because there isn't such a

thing as 'attempted birth'

 

What thinks you?

 

Luv,

 

RD

 

-

Swee Chan

 

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:53 AM

RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Om Gurave Namah

 

Dear Chandrashekharji,

 

My second son did not cry even after the doctors had suctioned out the fluids!

They had to smack and smack him and turned him upside down! I panicked

nevertheless, but timed his birth from the time they cut the cord. This to me,

signifies his independence from his mother (me).

 

Then when he learnt to speak early, he couldn’t stop talking even though he was

on a strict macrobiotic diet. J

 

The timing of his events has satiated my curiosities.

 

Love,

 

Swee

[Guest guest]

Om

Gurave Namah

 

Dear RD,

 

Thank you for your

welcome. I would still go for the 6:21

pm. If your cord was not

attached astrally, you would never come back alive in

your dreams. This is what my maternal grandma and father taught me. Later on I

understood why: When consciously doing astral travelling,

you will know the true meaning of the dangling umbilicus.

 

Love,

Swee

 

-----Original

Message-----

Ramapriya D

[hubli (AT) hotpop (DOT) com]

13 July 2004

color:windowtext">

color:windowtext">17:39

 

Re: [sJC: Achyuta

Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

color:windowtext">Hi Swee,

 

color:windowtext">Nice to see you back on the list after a longish

sabbatical

 

color:windowtext">Is independence from the mother linked to the cutting of the

umbilicus or the detaching of the placenta? I'd go for the latter, somehow.

color:windowtext">Let me give a crude analogy. I shoot my neighbor today (Jul

13), the chap dies after surviving on life support for ten days (Jul 23) and

I'm convicted for murder a month later (Aug 23). When then did the murder take

place? I don't know what the (criminal) law is, but you can't brand me absurd

if I think it occurred today.

color:windowtext">If a baby's placenta is detached at 6.20 pm

color:windowtext">, the umbilical cord cut at

"Trebuchet MS";color:windowtext">6.21 pm

color:windowtext"> and his first cry is at

"Trebuchet MS";color:windowtext">6.22 pm

color:windowtext">, I'd be more inclined to record 6.20 as the birth time. Why?

A child can cry and lead life, even if inconveniently, if his umbilical cord

isn't cut and he has to dangle it around all the time. In more unfortunate

cases, a child may be born, umbilicus cut but there may be no crying or

breathing at all. BUT the child will in all cases have to detach from its mom;

that's the only single guarantee in childbirth. The following two events might

never occur, and still the birth would've taken place.

color:windowtext">In the analogy, my pulling the trigger is the only certain

thing, isn't it? The bloke may not die and I may never be convicted! An

attempted murder would still be recorded. The comparison stops just a wee short

because there isn't such a thing as 'attempted birth'

 

color:windowtext">What thinks you?

 

color:windowtext">Luv,

 

color:windowtext">RD

 

margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

-----

Original Message -----

color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">

color:windowtext"> Swee

Chan

font-weight:bold">

font-weight:bold">Tuesday, July 13,

2004 12:53 AM

color:windowtext">

font-weight:bold">Subject:

RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Om Gurave

Namah

 

Dear

Chandrashekharji,

 

My second son did

not cry even after the doctors had suctioned out the fluids! They had to smack

and smack him and turned him upside down! I panicked nevertheless, but timed

his birth from the time they cut the cord. This to me, signifies his

independence from his mother (me).

 

Then when he

learnt to speak early, he couldn’t stop talking even though he was on a

strict macrobiotic diet.

mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-char-type:symbol;

mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings">

Wingdings">J

 

The timing of his

events has satiated my curiosities.

 

Love,

 

Swee

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya

namah]

Send a blank mail

To :

-

To :

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Swee,

Do you not think the doctors slapped him and held him upside down, so

that he draws his first breath? Unless Lagna changes being in Sandhi or

some planets change house by the same reason by the time difference

between cutting of umbilical cord and drawing of first breath, which is

usually accompanied by some sound and mostly the baby's cry, barring

details related to second and more specifically the fifth harmonics of

the chart other predictions are likely to remain within a broadly

similar pattern. Therefore it would be difficult to infer which of the

two is birth on that account only. I think a recent post suggests that

PVR also holds the same opinion as I do about birth time being first

draw of breath.

In so far as my personal opinion is concerned the Sages have factored

in the minor difference in recording of time in the predictive part. Of

course I could be wrong.

Love,

Chandrashekhar.

Swee Chan wrote:

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

..shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

Clean

DocumentEmail

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

/* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable

{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";

mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;

mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;

mso-style-noshow:yes;

mso-style-parent:"";

mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;

mso-para-margin:0cm;

mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;

mso-pagination:widow-orphan;

font-size:10.0pt;

font-family:"Times New Roman";}

Om Gurave

Namah

 

Dear Chandrashekharji,

 

My second son did not

cry even after the doctors had

suctioned out the fluids! They had to smack and smack him and turned

him upside

down! I panicked nevertheless, but timed his birth from the time they

cut the

cord. This to me, signifies his

independence from his

mother (me).

 

Then when he learnt to

speak early, he couldn’t

stop talking even though he was on a strict macrobiotic diet. J

 

The timing of his events

has satiated my curiosities.

 

Love,

 

Swee

 

 

-----Original

Message-----

Chandrashekhar

[boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]

12

July 2004 22:07

To:

 

Re: [sJC:

Achyuta

Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear

Gili,

Being a mother could you tell me whether your daughter did not make any

noise

at all for first 15 minutes when she was nursing. It is generally the

case with

human babies that they utter some sound or even cry out when first

birth is

drawn.

Chandrashekhar.

gilimary alvey wrote:

Dear All.

Forgive me for intruding on your dialogue but surely it is not logical to

use the cutting of the placenta as the indication of birth in the case of a

child who was nursing from the mother for about 15 mins before the placenta

was cut? She was obviously alive - living, breathing and feeding before

the cord was cut. I can vouch for this as the child was my daughter! (She

didn't cry either so first breath is also not precisely timeable!)

Another point to consider is that the placenta, formed after implantation of

the embry, is, i understand, developed from tissue originating from the

mother and from the embry, so can it be considered entirely as 'mother'?

Love

gili

 

 

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

 

 

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:48:30 +0530

 

Dear Rampriya,

I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when the

placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically. Please

go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human

species) has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.

By the way many reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were

first discovered by Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much

difference between reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the

Bovine variety and Humans.

Chandrashekhar.

 

Ramapriya D wrote:

 

Dear Chandrashekhar,

I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion that isn't

analogous with yours but this is one such instance.

My considered view is that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets

detached from the mother; that happens at the instant when the body is

outside the mother... unless you the vet refute it (you must have

delivered a mammal or two in your day, right?)! In Caesarean section

births, it has to be when the umbilical cord is snapped. The only reason

why I've to take a different stand on this is because a child can well be

born dead, which means it won't take any breath at all. Harrumphing

already?

Warm regards,

Ramapriya

 

 

-

** Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

*To:*

<>

*Sent:* Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

*Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear Drupad,

Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to

be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when

the child draws first breath.

Chandrashekhar.

 

drupadupadhyaya wrote:

 

Respected Gurus,

 

I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is it

mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be taken

as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one

part of

his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the

cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a

lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly

guide

me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on this.

Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly

clarify.

 

Thanks & Regards

Drupad

 

 

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

 

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

 

 

 

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

 

 

* Sponsor*

click here

<http://us.ard./SIG=12996jhrq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089656068/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.>

 

 

 

------

* Links*

 

*

/

*

<?subject=Un>

*

Terms of

Service <>.

 

 

 

_______________

MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months

FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

 

 

 

------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~-->

Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar.

Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!

http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/C9XolB/TM

--~->

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

<*>

/

 

<*>

 

<*> Your

 

 

 

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To :

-

To :

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreeram,

You have raised a very good point, one which everyone tends to forget

when talking about recording correct time. My personal opinion is that

the Sages who gave us the shastras have factored in the likely time lag

while giving parameters for predictions. This again is why most of the

Astrological texts talk about Rasi charts and yogas therein and at the

most Navamsha strengths. Again that is why various methods of birth

time rectifications are told to us.

Astrologers of my generation generally prefer to check up physical and

other characteristics of Jataka with the chart presented to them

before beginning prediction for the same reasons. This perhaps is also

the reason that the Venerated Parashara tells us to look for occupation

of certain signs and houses to asses impact of planets on a Jataka's

life and not specific degrees-minutes-seconds.

Chandrashekhar.

Sreeram Kidambi wrote:

Om Namo Narayanaya

Pranams to all Gurus!

I have a question regarding birth timings. According

to the theory of relativity, "No two watches will

coincide in the timings they show" (unless otherwise

they are made to do so). Hence, how to we decide the

time? Say, the doctor/nurse's watch might show a

different time than the actual one. Hence, how do we

ensure that the horoscope is perfect?

Replies/Pointers to the same would gratefully be

appreciated.

Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu

Sreeram.

 

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Guest guest]

Om

Gurave Namah

 

Dear Chandrshekharji,

 

>From what I’ve

read about life and death in the puranas, and what

goes on in the woman’s womb from the time it takes the seed, I am

satisfied that the separation of the child from the mother is when the cord is

cut. Isn’t the cutting of the ribbon is how an official function is Noted

despite the big aplomb in all the ceremonies that go

with it?

 

Also, Srila Prabhupad has stated that

it is the cutting of the umbilicus. This is good enough for me.

 

I hate to pop Srnivas’ bubble. But being a patient with a Harley

Street

gynae meant I got perks to synchronise

watches and the clock on the wall. I may have had 3 doctors attending, but

certainly not more than 3 nurses!

 

Love,

 

Swee

 

 

-----Original

Message-----

Chandrashekhar

[boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]

13 July 2004 21:44

 

Re: [sJC: Achyuta

Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear Swee,

Do you not think the doctors slapped him and held him upside down, so that he

draws his first breath? Unless Lagna changes being in Sandhi or some planets

change house by the same reason by the time difference between cutting of umbilical

cord and drawing of first breath, which is usually accompanied by some sound

and mostly the baby's cry, barring details related to second and more

specifically the fifth harmonics of the chart other predictions are likely to

remain within a broadly similar pattern. Therefore it would be difficult to

infer which of the two is birth on that account only. I think a recent post

suggests that PVR also holds the same opinion as I do about birth time being

first draw of breath.

In so far as my personal opinion is concerned the Sages have factored in the

minor difference in recording of time in the predictive part. Of course I could

be wrong.

Love,

Chandrashekhar.

Swee Chan wrote:

Clean

DocumentEmail

Om

Gurave Namah

 

Dear Chandrashekharji,

 

My second son did

not cry even after the doctors had suctioned out the fluids! They had to smack

and smack him and turned him upside down! I panicked nevertheless, but timed

his birth from the time they cut the cord. This to me, signifies his

independence from his mother (me).

 

Then when he

learnt to speak early, he couldn’t stop talking even though he was on a

strict macrobiotic diet. J

 

The timing of his

events has satiated my curiosities.

 

Love,

 

Swee

 

 

-----Original

Message-----

Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]

12

July 2004 22:07

 

Re: [sJC: Achyuta

Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear Gili,

Being a mother could you tell me whether your daughter did not make any noise

at all for first 15 minutes when she was nursing. It is generally the case with

human babies that they utter some sound or even cry out when first birth is

drawn.

Chandrashekhar.

gilimary alvey wrote:

Dear All.Forgive me for intruding on your dialogue but surely it is not logical

to use the cutting of the placenta as the indication of birth in the case of a

child who was nursing from the mother for about 15 mins before the placenta was

cut? She was obviously alive - living, breathing and feeding before the cord

was cut. I can vouch for this as the child was my daughter! (She didn't cry

either so first breath is also not precisely timeable!)Another point to

consider is that the placenta, formed after implantation of the embry, is, i

understand, developed from tissue originating from the mother and from the

embry, so can it be considered entirely as 'mother'?Lovegili

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

To: Subject: Re: [sJC:

Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth TimingMon, 12 Jul 2004 01:48:30 +0530 Dear

Rampriya,I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when

the placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically. Please

go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human species)

has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.By the way many

reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were first discovered by

Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much difference between

reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the Bovine variety and

Humans.Chandrashekhar. Ramapriya D wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar, I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion

that isn't analogous with yours but this is one such instance.My considered

view is that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets detached from the

mother; that happens at the instant when the body is outside the mother...

unless you the vet refute it (you must have delivered a mammal or two in your

day, right?)! In Caesarean section births, it has to be when the umbilical cord

is snapped. The only reason why I've to take a different stand on this is

because a child can well be born dead, which means it won't take any breath at

all. Harrumphing already? Warm regards, Ramapriya ----- Original

Message ----- ** Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> *To:*

<>

*Sent:* Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul]

Correct Birth Timing Dear Drupad, Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge,

mentions the time of birth to be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal

opinion is it is when the child draws first breath. Chandrashekhar.

drupadupadhyaya wrote:

Respected Gurus, I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth

timing. Is it mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be

taken as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one part

of his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the cases,

it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a lot of

difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly guide me whether

there is any definite authoritative statement on this. Please advice me as to

your views on the subject also. Kindly clarify. Thanks & Regards

Drupad [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah] Send a blank mail

To : - To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah] Send a blank mail To

: - To :

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya

Jagannathaaya namah] Send a blank mail To :

- To :

* Sponsor*

click here

<http://us.ard./SIG=12996jhrq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089656068/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.>

------

* Links* *

/ * To

from this group, send an email to:

<?subject=Un>

* Terms of

Service <>.

_______________MSN 9 Dial-up

Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months FREE!

http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a

clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar.Now with Pop-Up Blocker.

Get it for

free!http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/C9XolB/TM--~->

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]Send a blank mailTo :

-To :

Links <*> To visit your

group on the web, go to: / <*> To

from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of is

subject to:

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To :

-

To :

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar,

Please find attached Layla's chart. Is there anything you would like to

know about her that might help give further information on the topic of

birth time?

Love gili

 

 

>Chandrashekhar <boxdel

>

>

>Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

>Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:14:54 +0530

>

>Dear Gili,

>It is good that you recorded her time for when she drew her first breath.

>When inhaling a sound does occur. Crying is the usual sound children make

>simultaneously with draw of first breath, and thus has been associated with

>drawing of first breath. By the way does your daughter have a strong

>influence of Saturn on Lagna?

>Chandrashekhar.

>

>gilimary alvey wrote:

>

>>Dear Chandrashekhar,

>>My daughter didn't cry until the staff nurse took her away from me after

>>about 20 mins or so. When she was born and the doctor said, 'it's a girl'

>> I remarked that she hadn't cried (which I had expected). He said,

>>'she's breathing' and that was the time we recorded for her birth. If she

>>made any vocal sounds I was unaware of it. It was a natural childbirth

>>with no drugs. She nursed with no difficulties.

>>Love,

>>gili

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>>Chandrashekhar <boxdel

>>>

>>>

>>>Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

>>>Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:36:46 +0530

>>>

>>>Dear Gili,

>>>Being a mother could you tell me whether your daughter did not make any

>>>noise at all for first 15 minutes when she was nursing. It is generally

>>>the case with human babies that they utter some sound or even cry out

>>>when first birth is drawn.

>>>Chandrashekhar.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>_______________

>>MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - FREE

>>download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

>>Send a blank mail

>>To : -

>>To :

>>Links

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

 

_______________

FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!

http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

Attachment: (application/octet-stream) layla.jhd [not stored]

[Guest guest]

Dear Swee,

Yes everybody to his own opinions and understanding of Jyotish. Let us

agree to disagree on this.

Love,

Chandrashekhar.

Swee Chan wrote:

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

..shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

Clean

Clean

DocumentEmail

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

/* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable

{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";

mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;

mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;

mso-style-noshow:yes;

mso-style-parent:"";

mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;

mso-para-margin:0cm;

mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;

mso-pagination:widow-orphan;

font-size:10.0pt;

font-family:"Times New Roman";}

Om

Gurave Namah

 

Dear

Chandrshekharji,

 

From

what I’ve

read about life and death in the puranas,

and what

goes on in the woman’s womb from the time it takes the seed, I am

satisfied that the separation of the child from the mother is when the

cord is

cut. Isn’t the cutting of the ribbon is how an official function is Noted

despite the big aplomb in all the

ceremonies that go

with it?

 

Also,

Srila Prabhupad

has stated that

it is the cutting of the umbilicus. This is good enough for me.

 

I

hate to pop Srnivas’ bubble. But being a

patient with a Harley Street

gynae meant I got perks to synchronise

watches and the clock on the wall. I may have had 3 doctors attending,

but

certainly not more than 3 nurses!

 

Love,

 

Swee

 

 

-----Original

Message-----

Chandrashekhar

[boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]

13 July 2004

21:44

To:

 

Re: [sJC:

Achyuta

Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear

Swee,

Do you not think the doctors slapped him and held him upside down, so

that he

draws his first breath? Unless Lagna changes being in Sandhi or some

planets

change house by the same reason by the time difference between cutting

of umbilical

cord and drawing of first breath, which is usually accompanied by some

sound

and mostly the baby's cry, barring details related to second and more

specifically the fifth harmonics of the chart other predictions are

likely to

remain within a broadly similar pattern. Therefore it would be

difficult to

infer which of the two is birth on that account only. I think a recent

post

suggests that PVR also holds the same opinion as I do about birth time

being

first draw of breath.

In so far as my personal opinion is concerned the Sages have factored

in the

minor difference in recording of time in the predictive part. Of course

I could

be wrong.

Love,

Chandrashekhar.

Swee Chan wrote:

Clean

DocumentEmail

Om

Gurave Namah

 

Dear Chandrashekharji,

 

My second son did

not cry even after the doctors had suctioned out the fluids! They had

to smack

and smack him and turned him upside down! I panicked nevertheless, but

timed

his birth from the time they cut the cord. This to me, signifies his

independence from his mother (me).

 

Then when he

learnt to speak early, he couldn’t stop talking even though he was on a

strict macrobiotic diet. J

 

The timing of his

events has satiated my curiosities.

 

Love,

 

Swee

 

 

-----Original

Message-----

Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]

12

July 2004 22:07

 

Re: [sJC:

Achyuta

Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear

Gili,

Being a mother could you tell me whether your daughter did not make any

noise

at all for first 15 minutes when she was nursing. It is generally the

case with

human babies that they utter some sound or even cry out when first

birth is

drawn.

Chandrashekhar.

gilimary alvey wrote:

Dear All.

Forgive me for intruding on your dialogue but surely it is not logical to

use the cutting of the placenta as the indication of birth in the case of a

child who was nursing from the mother for about 15 mins before the placenta

was cut? She was obviously alive - living, breathing and feeding before

the cord was cut. I can vouch for this as the child was my daughter! (She

didn't cry either so first breath is also not precisely timeable!)

Another point to consider is that the placenta, formed after implantation of

the embry, is, i understand, developed from tissue originating from the

mother and from the embry, so can it be considered entirely as 'mother'?

Love

gili

 

 

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

 

 

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:48:30 +0530

 

Dear Rampriya,

I trust you have not read the comments of Dr. Banerjee on how and when the

placenta is cut and whether or not it gets detached automatically. Please

go through the archives and read what a Medical Practitioner (of human

species) has to say about this. I am sure you will be surprised.

By the way many reproductive techniques hailed as recent findings were

first discovered by Breeders and Veterinarians. So there is not much

difference between reproduction systems of mammals, especially of the

Bovine variety and Humans.

Chandrashekhar.

 

Ramapriya D wrote:

 

Dear Chandrashekhar,

I know I'm treading thin ice when I've to give an opinion that isn't

analogous with yours but this is one such instance.

My considered view is that the baby is born the instant the placenta gets

detached from the mother; that happens at the instant when the body is

outside the mother... unless you the vet refute it (you must have

delivered a mammal or two in your day, right?)! In Caesarean section

births, it has to be when the umbilical cord is snapped. The only reason

why I've to take a different stand on this is because a child can well be

born dead, which means it won't take any breath at all. Harrumphing

already?

Warm regards,

Ramapriya

 

 

-

** Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

*To:*

<>

*Sent:* Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:56 AM

*Subject:* Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Correct Birth Timing

 

Dear Drupad,

Only Phaladeepika, to my knowledge, mentions the time of birth to

be cutting of umbilical cord. My personal opinion is it is when

the child draws first breath.

Chandrashekhar.

 

drupadupadhyaya wrote:

 

Respected Gurus,

 

I had a doubt in my mind regarding the correct birth timing. Is it

mentioned anywhere in any of the classics as to what should be taken

as the time of birth of a child. Is it that time when any one

part of

his body comes out of the womb or is is the time of his first breath

or should birth time be taken when the nadi is cut. In most of the

cases, it makes little difference but in some cases, it does make a

lot of difference especially when the nakshatra changes. Kindly

guide

me whether there is any definite authoritative statement on this.

Please advice me as to your views on the subject also. Kindly

clarify.

 

Thanks & Regards

Drupad

 

 

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

 

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

 

 

 

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

 

 

* Sponsor*

click here

<http://us.ard./SIG=12996jhrq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1705082690:HM/EXP=1089656068/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.>

 

 

 

------

* Links*

 

*

/

*

<?subject=Un>

*

Terms of

Service <>.

 

 

 

_______________

MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months

FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

 

 

 

------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~-->

Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar.

Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!

http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/C9XolB/TM

--~->

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

<*>

/

 

<*>

 

<*> Your

 

 

 

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To :

-

To :

 

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

To :