RE: FW: [SJC: Achyuta Gurukul] On Jyotish Art, and Faith/early morning rumination

September 21, 2003

|| Jaya Jagannath

||

Dear Anna,

Hmm, thought it might seem like, I am not an 100% determinist or a fatalist. If it were so, I would

not have put so much effort in whatever I do and would get an excuse that it’s

GOD who is making me lazy, or if its destined, anyways it would come to me...

We got Freewill, 'coz our shastras

say that, 'coz my guru says that, 'coz Jyotisha shastras

says that. We got Upachayas in Jyotish to understand

that. However, my understanding of freewill can be little different from the

conventional one. We can exercise our freewill only to realize the true nature

of being or self and that can only deliver us from the bondage of life and that.

We can realize that we are just pawns in the hands of the supreme consciousness

and whatever result (fruits of karma - good or bad) that is attributed to my

karma, should be attributed to the supreme consciousness (because I never

thought/ believed that I did that) so that I am free from reaping such fruits

of karmas in my next birth.

For this I need to know, what are

the directives of the supreme consciousness and what it wants me to do. It

is difficult and I bank upon fulfilling my duties with the trust that, the

supreme consciousness, wants me to do what I am expected to do... i.e., just my

bit of duties. As I think it's not ME who has done this, I also do not expect

the results to be given to ME for that! Whatever is given to me in lieu, I just

thank and accept. I do not say that I have perfected this attitude, but I am

sure, I will before I shall break free from the bondage of life and death.

So I am just trying to understand with my “free

will”… what it is true nature of my Self.

Best Wishes

Sarajit

10.0pt">

bona_mente [anmar (AT) attcanada (DOT) ca]

Sunday, September 21, 2003 7:20 PM

Re: FW: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul]On Jyotish Art, and Faith/early morning

rumination

10.0pt">

10.0pt">Dear Sarajit,

10.0pt">

10.0pt">So good to see your posts, will read them all- and thank you for

10.0pt">writing.

10.0pt">My response is in this and a bit earlier one on This life karma,

10.0pt">just a bit above, please see it.

10.0pt">

10.0pt">You are totally 'right wing', dear Sarajit- 100% determinism, how do

10.0pt">you manage to be so gentle, polite, nice 'and friendly to all' and

10.0pt">such a 'fatalist' /yes dear Sanjay/+ have you ever wondered if it's

10.0pt">healthy attitude?- Ah, stupid Q, that's all destined.

10.0pt">/We don't need Psy's- our Ontario 'right wing'Government shares that

10.0pt">attitude, and health care/m.health area in partic./cut is felt here.

10.0pt">You don' have this life bad karma, being so very nice a person.

10.0pt">Provided that you accept the concept!

10.0pt">

10.0pt">Let me play with this- you know me, I like to laugh and play /when

10.0pt">crying permits :)One hypothetical Q- what if God doesn't like that

10.0pt">you accept so humbly whatever comes,taking it as written personally

10.0pt">by God Himself? He may be 'saying' I granted him so many nice

10.0pt">faculties, he should do something for his happiness..or else along

10.0pt">this line..And find you need 'more pressure' to get the lesson

10.0pt">learned. But Sarajit is not averse of learning, don't pile him with

10.0pt">new load, Cn Lagna cries in your 'defence'- yes but this may be the

10.0pt">MAJOR ONE! Take the action, animate friends, Fight harder for

10.0pt">improvinng this material realm of life. And you getting the

10.0pt">bigger 'servings'each time, so that hopefully you'll say, I tried

10.0pt">this, let me try another way around!

10.0pt">

10.0pt">No need to comment on indignant refusal to accept a piece, even

10.0pt">small one of 'free will'. Sure, I think diffrently, but I love

10.0pt">diversity too, and I've accepted your view as equally valid as mine,

10.0pt">already. In fact, that's good for me, you'll get deeper answers and

10.0pt">share them with me, so I can go to those concerts, exibitions,

10.0pt">restaurants jyotish study prevented me from attending.

10.0pt">

10.0pt">Thanks a lot, friend!

10.0pt">

10.0pt">I will be sending my best wishes your way all the time.

10.0pt">

10.0pt">Speaking on karma, I definitevely have bad computer karma- WORM

10.0pt">32/Swen /no, not swan/disabled all programs.

10.0pt">I cannot write before I fix the problem.

10.0pt">If you, ot anybody from the lists wrote to my address directly

10.0pt">I appologize that mails were bounced,

10.0pt">

10.0pt">and please forward any messages you sent to me to address

10.0pt">bona_mente

10.0pt">Goodbuy MS Outlook /what's happening with Bill now, will he have

10.0pt">enough money to reimburse me for suffering bcs of

10.0pt">his 'vulnerabilities', invoice prepared.

10.0pt">

10.0pt">Best wishes,

10.0pt">Rice

10.0pt">

10.0pt">, "Sarajit Poddar"

<sarajit@s...>

10.0pt">wrote:

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Sarajit Poddar [sarajit@s...]

10.0pt">> Sunday, September 21, 2003 8:06 AM

10.0pt">> ''

10.0pt">> RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] On Jyotish Art, and Faith

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> || Jaya Jagannath ||

10.0pt">> Dear Anna,

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Beautiful! First of all, I donot think that it is human

10.0pt">intelligence

10.0pt">> which has created the difference in faiths. If God didn¡Çt want to

10.0pt">> create such different faiths, why are they here? We can see in

10.0pt">nature,

10.0pt">> that the whole nature is full of diversities and each one of the

10.0pt">diverse

10.0pt">> members are equally necessary for the world to continue. There is

a

10.0pt">> perfect order in the universe which the ancients called the Rta

and

10.0pt">> nothing is out of accident or sheer chance.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> It is no accident that we are born in a particular family,

10.0pt">professing a

10.0pt">> particular faith and have a specific belief system. Judging

10.0pt">ourselves

10.0pt">> who is right and who is wrong, who is superior and who is inferior

10.0pt">> amounts to not trusting the divine purpose. This is as it supposed

10.0pt">to

10.0pt">> be. Why need conversion than¡Ä Frankly speaking, if God want us to

10.0pt">> convert from one religion to other, then he can do it during our

10.0pt">birth

10.0pt">> making us born in a family which professes a particular religion,

10.0pt">> otherwise HE would give us enough reason, purpose and impetus to

10.0pt">act

10.0pt">> upon this change. So we are just behaving the way he wanted us to

10.0pt">be. So

10.0pt">> we are happy to profess our own faith and still putting all our

10.0pt">effort

10.0pt">> in understanding the True nature of our SELF and the Creation.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Just my little thoughts, I wish I would not be dragged into any

10.0pt">> controversies...lol

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Best Wishes

10.0pt">> Sarajit

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> N.Anna [anmar@a...]

10.0pt">> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:56 PM

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul/On

10.0pt">Jyotish

10.0pt">> Art, and Faith

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Dear Jay and Ron, Sureshbaby, Ramesh, Phyl, Roik/Das, and all,

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> I enjoyed Jay's and Ron's posts- so important issues, indeed- I

10.0pt">perceive

10.0pt">> that most important of all is 'worshiping issue', and I am glad

10.0pt">that you

10.0pt">> Ron quoted Sanjay's piece of advice in this matter- be honest in

10.0pt">your

10.0pt">> prayers and worship, you can worship in accordance with your

belief

10.0pt">> system, each and every belief, faith, religion, is valuable, no

10.0pt">need to

10.0pt">> get converted to Hinduism if you love Jyotish. /my 'rumination' on

10.0pt">> Sanjay's words quoted/

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> That is what I believe in. Nobody is meant to be insulted, for I

10.0pt">may be

10.0pt">> what I believe in and you what you believe in, I may be wrong, you

10.0pt">may

10.0pt">> be right. What I will say bellow, please accept as my belief only,

10.0pt">which

10.0pt">> crystallized for me by exposure to millions of experiences I've

10.0pt">> accumulated in this short existence of mine. Also, please forgive

10.0pt">me

10.0pt">> that I am identified with my beliefs, you don't need to be angry

10.0pt">at me

10.0pt">> for being what I am.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> So, IMO, Jyotish is above petty fighting whose religion is

10.0pt">the 'right'

10.0pt">> one. /What I like the most about Narasimha is his fervent faith

10.0pt">that I

10.0pt">> can find in my own heart, what I like the most about Sanjay is his

10.0pt">> stable introspective faith

undisturbed by his acceptance of any

10.0pt">faith

10.0pt">> of others, for I feel it should be that way, what I love the most

10.0pt">about

10.0pt">> my mother is her genuine deep, profound, faith that doesn't need

to

10.0pt">> prove anything to anybody, for I've struggled to reach that

'noble'

10.0pt">> level myself/. I believe, some automatic acceptance of Beautiful

10.0pt">Symbols

10.0pt">> of Hinduism as 'own faith' is such a laziness /!/, since we are

10.0pt">more

10.0pt">> than "temporary"

'creatures of faith'. I believe WE ARE creatures

10.0pt">of

10.0pt">> FAITH, whether we are practicing Hindu, Christian, Moslem, or

10.0pt">> 'agnostics', since we are gorgeous, UNIQUE 'compound' of our

10.0pt">personal,

10.0pt">> family, nation, race, karma- one can get rid of your personal

faith

10.0pt">> either by conversion to faith other than one we were born with, or

10.0pt">by

10.0pt">> rejecting it altogether- nobody can run away too far from

10.0pt">> herself/himself, collective Karma, collective consciousness in

10.0pt">one's

10.0pt">> deeper layers will always be there, thus create ng mess in one's

10.0pt">mind

10.0pt">> and

10.0pt">> that of his progeny. /Brendan Feely can help me here 'prove' my

10.0pt">point/.

10.0pt">> G.Das/Roik 'syndrome' comes to my mind, I like both Das and Roik

10.0pt">> honestly.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Hope I was able to get my point across.

10.0pt">> (Or may that be just be my 'domesticated Jupiter in Pi.?)

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Warmest wishes to all, since we have at least one big thing in

10.0pt">common,

10.0pt">> our love for amazing art of JYOTISH

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Anna

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> -

10.0pt">> J. Weiss <jayhw@t...>

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:38 AM

10.0pt">> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case

10.0pt">study

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Dear Ron,

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Can't say that I disagree with anything you wrote, on the

10.0pt">contrary.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Loved your "curses = UNFULFILLED DESIRES" - makes it

10.0pt">more "realistic"

10.0pt">> and suitable for our times.

10.0pt">> Sanjay provided us with many wise "pearls" in the past

which we all

10.0pt">> could learn from including the one you mentioned.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> The "% amount" of free will can be extracted from the

chart based

10.0pt">on the

10.0pt">> planets position and strength (old Jyotish stuff). I will try to

10.0pt">get in

10.0pt">> touch with the author to have his permission to publish the

10.0pt">article on

10.0pt">> the list for the benefit of all.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Your contact offer is accepted.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Kind regards

10.0pt">> Jay Weiss

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> -

10.0pt">> Ron <humbleshishya@n...> Bach

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:50 PM

10.0pt">> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case

10.0pt">study

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Pranaams Dear Jay:

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Agreed with your points about "belief systems" and

"easy way out".

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> I even tried to compose several replies. However, finally I

10.0pt">decided that

10.0pt">> this is a Jyotish list and we could well end up offending a lot of

10.0pt">> different groups based JUST on what you or I think is

10.0pt">representative of

10.0pt">> factors in distant past [i think you get the hint].

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> What I could say here in response to your post is something I

10.0pt">remember

10.0pt">> Gurudeva Sanjay Rath Ji once saying.... and it is a wise piece of

10.0pt">> advice:

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> "If one starts worshipping a rock or just about any object,

then

10.0pt">Bhagwan

10.0pt">> will manifest for the one from that rock or object".

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Well, good enough for me.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> And as per your observation that curses should not be taken

10.0pt">lightly...

10.0pt">> Well, I agree with that as well and the way I see curses are like

10.0pt">> UNFULFILLED DESIRES.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> So if we were to go back to the theory of Karma and somehow blend

10.0pt">the

10.0pt">> curses into the Karmic cycle [Rahu/Ketu as the keys], then somehow

10.0pt">> rebirth would be signified there and give added weighing factor to

10.0pt">the

10.0pt">> rules that are included in our syllabus.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> As per the article you are mentioning, well, I have not had the

10.0pt">chance

10.0pt">> of reading it. But yes, I do agree that we all have 33% free will.

10.0pt">These

10.0pt">> are the upachaya sthanas [3rd, 6th, and 11th] and that is what we

10.0pt">have

10.0pt">> free will upon.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Unfortunately two of these are dusthanas and in any case, neither

10.0pt">of

10.0pt">> these represent the important pivots in a chart or the skies above

10.0pt">[as

10.0pt">> above so below]. I consider the quadrants and trines to be pivots.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> There are unseen forces not understood well enough [at lest by

me];

10.0pt">> which the sages and saints understood very well and we are but on

10.0pt">the

10.0pt">> journey in their footsteps. I am sure both you and I will have

10.0pt">much to

10.0pt">> explore and share and in that aspect, I look forward to discussing

10.0pt">> these issues with you....

perhaps via private email [as we both

10.0pt">have

10.0pt">> each other's] or by Conference.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Alongside that, Jay, I wish you all the best and I have always

10.0pt">read all

10.0pt">> your posts and comments and have tremendous respect for your views

10.0pt">and

10.0pt">> opinions.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> I must check my chart today for why I am posting so much and why

10.0pt">or what

10.0pt">> is the Nimmitta that has reconnected you and me in this wonderful

10.0pt">> discussion :-)

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> With that... please convey my best regards to all your loved ones

10.0pt">ever

10.0pt">> and you and everyone else take care too.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Aum Namo Narayana

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Kind regards and best wishes from

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Ron Bach

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> jayhw@t... wrote:

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Nicely answered Ron.

10.0pt">> Indeed some of the points you mention here may be valid within a

10.0pt">> specific belief system but on the other hand wouldn't it also

10.0pt">be "the

10.0pt">> easy way out" - blaming all/most of our misfortunes on curses

?

10.0pt">> One may arrive at the "conclusion" that the souls of the

past did

10.0pt">> nothing else but curse each other for every little thing (I can

10.0pt">already

10.0pt">> HEAR you laughing...).

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Jokes aside, I think that the issue of curses is a very serious

10.0pt">one, and

10.0pt">> has to be taken with reservation whenever there is the slightest

10.0pt">doubt.

10.0pt">> Each and everyone of us still have a portion of free will ... (see

10.0pt">the

10.0pt">> book "Imperial Insights in Vedic Astrology" by R.K.

Wishwakarma,

10.0pt">#2 "Law

10.0pt">> of karma, fate and free will" --- I wish I could mail this

article

10.0pt">to

10.0pt">> the list, but than I'll be breaking the copywrite ...not fair...)

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Kind regards

10.0pt">> Jay Weiss

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> -

10.0pt">> Ron <humbleshishya@n...> Bach

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:18 AM

10.0pt">> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case

10.0pt">study

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Pranaams Dear Jay:

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> You make me laugh [and infact still laughing] :-D

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> You are quite knowledgeable compared to me and who am I to argue?

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> But yes, not just the "AS IS"; the rules of Vedanga

Jyotisha [as

10.0pt">Jyotish

10.0pt">> is a limb of Vedas] do state so.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> It makes sense in many ways too. We are in Kali Yuga and therefore

10.0pt">all

10.0pt">> the sorrows and sadness that boomerang around are really going to

10.0pt">make

10.0pt">> Brahma a lot busier than he already is!

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> It would be ideal for everyone to be sattwic and that is what Sata

10.0pt">Yuga

10.0pt">> stands for. And I have long

pondered just why it is that our

10.0pt">planet's

10.0pt">> equator that revolves ALSO

on its own axis [Equinoxal

10.0pt">Precission

10.0pt">> that takes roughly 24,000

years] creates so much drama?

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> To avoid confusion, I mean that even the *axis* of our planet

10.0pt">revolves

10.0pt">> in a circle that takes

24,000 years [roughly] and this

is what

10.0pt">makes

10.0pt">> the stars and nakshatras look different [in their positions] as

10.0pt">ages and

10.0pt">> yugas go by. But OK, I will

settle with Krittika being the main

10.0pt">> reference in our ...er...

this period.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> This is ALSO the reason that we are still hunting for a CORRECT

and

10.0pt">> PERFECT ayanamsa and also the reason why we cannot just simply say

10.0pt">that

10.0pt">> Bhagwan Sri Rama was born at a particular time. We have Bhagwan's

10.0pt">> kundali based solely on events of life [or I have really been

10.0pt">asleep and

10.0pt">> missed a lot of messages].

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Instead of diverting too much, in short....

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> The problem of curses seems to stay [for a long time. LOL] And the

10.0pt">other

10.0pt">> unpleasant thing about sorrows, sadness, shrappa, curses, etc. is

10.0pt">> that....

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> If you have pissed off [sorry for the language as no other

10.0pt">appropriate

10.0pt">> word describes this best] multiple people and made them sorry,

10.0pt">then you

10.0pt">> need forgiveness from ALL of them. Just a single atma forgiving

10.0pt">you is

10.0pt">> NOT enough!

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> So your assessment is right about

"the majority of the worlds

10.0pt">> population in the "affected by curses" group", and

while I hope

10.0pt">Brahma

10.0pt">> takes a vacation on Bhu Loka, I think we must wait for another

Sata

10.0pt">> Yuga?

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Hey Jay, just what can I say? :-)

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> With that, please convey my best regards to all your loved ones

10.0pt">ever

10.0pt">> and you take care too.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Aum Namo Narayana

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Kind regards and best wishes from

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Ron Bach

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> jayhw@t... wrote:

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Dear Ron,

10.0pt">> Thanks for your interesting mail regarding curses.

10.0pt">> Taking your points "AS IS" will theoretically place the

majority

10.0pt">of the

10.0pt">> worlds population in the "affected by curses" group, or

shall we

10.0pt">say

10.0pt">> that the "none affected" group is a fraction of the total

worls

10.0pt">> population.

10.0pt">> I like to read your comment.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Kind regards

10.0pt">> Jay Weiss

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

10.0pt">> Send a blank mail

10.0pt">> To : -

10.0pt">> To :

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> <> Terms of Service.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

10.0pt">> Send a blank mail

10.0pt">> To : -

10.0pt">> To :

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> <> Terms of Service.

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> Sponsor

10.0pt">>

10.0pt"><http://rd./M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1

10.0pt">705

10.0pt">> 082690:HM/A=1524963/R=0/SIG=12o885gmo/*http:/hits.411web.com/cgi-

10.0pt">bin/aut

10.0pt">> oredir?camp=556&lineid=3614674¢ç=egroupweb&pos=HM>

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> <http://us.adserver./l?

10.0pt">M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egrou

10.0pt">> pmail/S=:HM/A=1524963/rand=957535234>

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

10.0pt">> Send a blank mail

10.0pt">> To : -

10.0pt">> To :

10.0pt">>

10.0pt">> <> Terms of Service.

10.0pt">

10.0pt">------------------------ Sponsor

---------------------~-->

10.0pt">ReplayTV: Control live television

10.0pt">Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV

10.0pt">CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo!

10.0pt">http://us.click./aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/C9XolB/TM

10.0pt">---~->

10.0pt">

10.0pt">[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

10.0pt">Send a blank mail

10.0pt">To : -

10.0pt">To :

10.0pt">

10.0pt">Your use of is subject to

10.0pt">

September 21, 2003

Dear Sir,

May I add?.In the language of Abe Lincoln,"This is the

game of God ,by Him and for Himself."

With best wishes,

Jagannathan.

- Sarajit Poddar <sarajit wrote: >

|| Jaya Jagannath ||

> Dear Anna,

>

> Hmm, thought it might seem like, I am not an 100%

> determinist or a

> fatalist. If it were so, I would not have put so

> much effort in whatever

> I do and would get an excuse that it’s GOD who is

> making me lazy, or if

> its destined, anyways it would come to me...

>

> We got Freewill, 'coz our shastras say that, 'coz my

> guru says that,

> 'coz Jyotisha shastras says that. We got Upachayas

> in Jyotish to

> understand that. However, my understanding of

> freewill can be little

> different from the conventional one. We can exercise

> our freewill only

> to realize the true nature of being or self and that

> can only deliver us

> from the bondage of life and that. We can realize

> that we are just pawns

> in the hands of the supreme consciousness and

> whatever result (fruits of

> karma - good or bad) that is attributed to my karma,

> should be

> attributed to the supreme consciousness (because I

> never thought/

> believed that I did that) so that I am free from

> reaping such fruits of

> karmas in my next birth.

>

> For this I need to know, what are the directives of

> the supreme

> consciousness and what it wants me to do. It is

> difficult and I bank

> upon fulfilling my duties with the trust that, the

> supreme

> consciousness, wants me to do what I am expected to

> do... i.e., just my

> bit of duties. As I think it's not ME who has done

> this, I also do not

> expect the results to be given to ME for that!

> Whatever is given to me

> in lieu, I just thank and accept. I do not say that

> I have perfected

> this attitude, but I am sure, I will before I shall

> break free from the

> bondage of life and death.

>

> So I am just trying to understand with my “free

> will”… what it is true

> nature of my Self.

>

> Best Wishes

> Sarajit

>

> bona_mente [anmar]

> Sunday, September 21, 2003 7:20 PM

>

> Re: FW: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul]On Jyotish

> Art, and Faith/early

> morning rumination

>

> Dear Sarajit,

>

> So good to see your posts, will read them all- and

> thank you for

> writing.

> My response is in this and a bit earlier one on This

> life karma,

> just a bit above, please see it.

>

> You are totally 'right wing', dear Sarajit- 100%

> determinism, how do

> you manage to be so gentle, polite, nice 'and

> friendly to all' and

> such a 'fatalist' /yes dear Sanjay/+ have you ever

> wondered if it's

> healthy attitude?- Ah, stupid Q, that's all

> destined.

> /We don't need Psy's- our Ontario 'right

> wing'Government shares that

> attitude, and health care/m.health area in

> partic./cut is felt here.

> You don' have this life bad karma, being so very

> nice a person.

> Provided that you accept the concept!

>

> Let me play with this- you know me, I like to laugh

> and play /when

> crying permits :)One hypothetical Q- what if God

> doesn't like that

> you accept so humbly whatever comes,taking it as

> written personally

> by God Himself? He may be 'saying' I granted him so

> many nice

> faculties, he should do something for his

> happiness..or else along

> this line..And find you need 'more pressure' to get

> the lesson

> learned. But Sarajit is not averse of learning,

> don't pile him with

> new load, Cn Lagna cries in your 'defence'- yes but

> this may be the

> MAJOR ONE! Take the action, animate friends, Fight

> harder for

> improvinng this material realm of life. And you

> getting the

> bigger 'servings'each time, so that hopefully you'll

> say, I tried

> this, let me try another way around!

>

> No need to comment on indignant refusal to accept a

> piece, even

> small one of 'free will'. Sure, I think diffrently,

> but I love

> diversity too, and I've accepted your view as

> equally valid as mine,

> already. In fact, that's good for me, you'll get

> deeper answers and

> share them with me, so I can go to those concerts,

> exibitions,

> restaurants jyotish study prevented me from

> attending.

>

> Thanks a lot, friend!

>

> I will be sending my best wishes your way all the

> time.

>

> Speaking on karma, I definitevely have bad computer

> karma- WORM

> 32/Swen /no, not swan/disabled all programs.

> I cannot write before I fix the problem.

> If you, ot anybody from the lists wrote to my

> address directly

> I appologize that mails were bounced,

>

> and please forward any messages you sent to me to

> address

> bona_mente

> Goodbuy MS Outlook /what's happening with Bill now,

> will he have

> enough money to reimburse me for suffering bcs of

> his 'vulnerabilities', invoice prepared.

>

> Best wishes,

> Rice

>

> , "Sarajit

> Poddar" <sarajit@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Sarajit Poddar [sarajit@s...]

> > Sunday, September 21, 2003 8:06 AM

> > ''

> > RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] On Jyotish

> Art, and Faith

> >

> > || Jaya Jagannath ||

> > Dear Anna,

> >

> > Beautiful! First of all, I donot think that it is

> human

> intelligence

> > which has created the difference in faiths. If God

> didn¡Çt want to

> > create such different faiths, why are they here?

> We can see in

> nature,

> > that the whole nature is full of diversities and

> each one of the

> diverse

> > members are equally necessary for the world to

> continue. There is a

> > perfect order in the universe which the ancients

> called the Rta and

> > nothing is out of accident or sheer chance.

> >

> > It is no accident that we are born in a particular

> family,

> professing a

> > particular faith and have a specific belief

> system. Judging

> ourselves

> > who is right and who is wrong, who is superior and

> who is inferior

> > amounts to not trusting the divine purpose. This

> is as it supposed

> to

> > be. Why need conversion than¡Ä Frankly speaking,

> if God want us to

> > convert from one religion to other, then he can do

> it during our

> birth

> > making us born in a family which professes a

> particular religion,

> > otherwise HE would give us enough reason, purpose

> and impetus to

> act

> > upon this change. So we are just behaving the way

> he wanted us to

> be. So

> > we are happy to profess our own faith and still

> putting all our

> effort

> > in understanding the True nature of our SELF and

> the Creation.

> >

> > Just my little thoughts, I wish I would not be

> dragged into any

> > controversies...lol

> >

> > Best Wishes

> > Sarajit

> >

> > N.Anna [anmar@a...]

> > Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:56 PM

> >

> > [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: [sJC: Achyuta

> Gurukul/On

> Jyotish

> > Art, and Faith

> >

> > Dear Jay and Ron, Sureshbaby, Ramesh, Phyl,

> Roik/Das, and all,

> >

> > I enjoyed Jay's and Ron's posts- so important

> issues, indeed- I

> perceive

> > that most important of all is 'worshiping issue',

> and I am glad

> that you

> > Ron quoted Sanjay's piece of advice in this

> matter- be honest in

> your

> > prayers and worship, you can worship in accordance

> with your belief

> > system, each and every belief, faith, religion, is

> valuable, no

> need to

> > get converted to Hinduism if you love Jyotish. /my

> 'rumination' on

> > Sanjay's words quoted/

> >

> > That is what I believe in. Nobody is meant to be

> insulted, for I

> may be

> > what I believe in and you what you believe in, I

> may be wrong, you

> may

> > be right. What I will say bellow, please accept as

> my belief only,

> which

> > crystallized for me by exposure to millions of

> experiences I've

> > accumulated in this short existence of mine. Also,

> please forgive

> me

> > that I am identified with my beliefs, you don't

> need to be angry

> at me

> > for being what I am.

> >

> > So, IMO, Jyotish is above petty fighting whose

> religion is

> the 'right'

> > one. /What I like the most about Narasimha is his

> fervent faith

> that I

> > can find in my own heart, what I like the most

> about Sanjay is his

> > stable introspective faith undisturbed by his

> acceptance of any

> faith

> > of others, for I feel it should be that way, what

> I love the most

> about

> > my mother is her genuine deep, profound, faith

> that doesn't need to

> > prove anything to anybody, for I've struggled to

> reach that 'noble'

> > level myself/. I believe, some automatic

> acceptance of Beautiful

> Symbols

> > of Hinduism as 'own faith' is such a laziness

> /!/, since we are

> more

> > than "temporary" 'creatures of faith'. I believe

> WE ARE creatures

> of

> > FAITH, whether we are practicing Hindu, Christian,

> Moslem, or

> > 'agnostics', since we are gorgeous, UNIQUE

> 'compound' of our

> personal,

> > family, nation, race, karma- one can get rid of

> your personal faith

> > either by conversion to faith other than one we

> were born with, or

> by

> > rejecting it altogether- nobody can run away too

> far from

> > herself/himself, collective Karma, collective

> consciousness in

> one's

> > deeper layers will always be there, thus create ng

> mess in one's

> mind

> > and

> > that of his progeny. /Brendan Feely can help me

> here 'prove' my

> point/.

> > G.Das/Roik 'syndrome' comes to my mind, I like

> both Das and Roik

> > honestly.

> >

> > Hope I was able to get my point across.

> > (Or may that be just be my 'domesticated Jupiter

> in Pi.?)

> >

> > Warmest wishes to all, since we have at least one

> big thing in

> common,

> > our love for amazing art of JYOTISH

> >

> > Anna

> >

> > -

> > J. Weiss <jayhw@t...>

> >

> > Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:38 AM

> > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an

> interesting case

> study

> >

> > Dear Ron,

> >

> > Can't say that I disagree with anything you wrote,

> on the

> contrary.

> >

> > Loved your "curses = UNFULFILLED DESIRES" - makes

> it

> more "realistic"

> > and suitable for our times.

> > Sanjay provided us with many wise "pearls" in the

> past which we all

> > could learn from including the one you mentioned.

> >

> > The "% amount" of free will can be extracted from

> the chart based

> on the

> > planets position and strength (old Jyotish stuff).

> I will try to

> get in

> > touch with the author to have his permission to

> publish the

> article on

> > the list for the benefit of all.

> >

> > Your contact offer is accepted.

> >

> > Kind regards

> > Jay Weiss

> >

> > -

> > Ron <humbleshishya@n...> Bach

> >

> > Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:50 PM

> > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an

> interesting case

> study

> >

> > Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

> >

> > Pranaams Dear Jay:

> >

> > Agreed with your points about "belief systems" and

> "easy way out".

> >

> > I even tried to compose several replies. However,

> finally I

> decided that

> > this is a Jyotish list and we could well end up

> offending a lot of

> > different groups based JUST on what you or I think

> is

> representative of

> > factors in distant past [i think you get the

> hint].

> >

> > What I could say here in response to your post is

> something I

> remember

> > Gurudeva Sanjay Rath Ji once saying.... and it is

> a wise piece of

> > advice:

> >

> > "If one starts worshipping a rock or just about

> any object, then

> Bhagwan

> > will manifest for the one from that rock or

> object".

> >

> > Well, good enough for me.

> >

> > And as per your observation that curses should not

> be taken

> lightly...

> > Well, I agree with that as well and the way I see

> curses are like

> > UNFULFILLED DESIRES.

> >

> > So if we were to go back to the theory of Karma

> and somehow blend

> the

> > curses into the Karmic cycle [Rahu/Ketu as the

> keys], then somehow

> > rebirth would be signified there and give added

> weighing factor to

> the

> > rules that are included in our syllabus.

> >

> > As per the article you are mentioning, well, I

> have not had the

> chance

> > of reading it. But yes, I do agree that we all

> have 33% free will.

> These

> > are the upachaya sthanas [3rd, 6th, and 11th] and

> that is what we

> have

> > free will upon.

> >

> > Unfortunately two of these are dusthanas and in

> any case, neither

> of

> > these represent the important pivots in a chart or

> the skies above

> [as

> > above so below]. I consider the quadrants and

> trines to be pivots.

> >

> > There are unseen forces not understood well enough

> [at lest by me];

> > which the sages and saints understood very well

> and we are but on

> the

> > journey in their footsteps. I am sure both you and

> I will have

> much to

> > explore and share and in that aspect, I look

> forward to discussing

> > these issues with you.... perhaps via private

> email [as we both

> have

> > each other's] or by Conference.

> >

> > Alongside that, Jay, I wish you all the best and I

> have always

> read all

> > your posts and comments and have tremendous

> respect for your views

> and

> > opinions.

> >

> > I must check my chart today for why I am posting

> so much and why

> or what

> > is the Nimmitta that has reconnected you and me in

> this wonderful

> > discussion :-)

> >

> > With that... please convey my best regards to all

> your loved ones

> ever

> > and you and everyone else take care too.

> >

> > Aum Namo Narayana

> >

> > Kind regards and best wishes from

> >

> > Ron Bach

> >

> > jayhw@t... wrote:

> >

> > Nicely answered Ron.

> > Indeed some of the points you mention here may be

> valid within a

> > specific belief system but on the other hand

> wouldn't it also

> be "the

> > easy way out" - blaming all/most of our

> misfortunes on curses ?

> > One may arrive at the "conclusion" that the souls

> of the past did

> > nothing else but curse each other for every little

> thing (I can

> already

> > HEAR you laughing...).

> >

> > Jokes aside, I think that the issue of curses is a

> very serious

> one, and

> > has to be taken with reservation whenever there is

> the slightest

> doubt.

> > Each and everyone of us still have a portion of

> free will ... (see

> the

> > book "Imperial Insights in Vedic Astrology" by

> R.K. Wishwakarma,

> #2 "Law

> > of karma, fate and free will" --- I wish I could

> mail this article

> to

> > the list, but than I'll be breaking the copywrite

> ...not fair...)

> >

> > Kind regards

> > Jay Weiss

> >

> > -

> > Ron <humbleshishya@n...> Bach

> >

> > Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:18 AM

> > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an

> interesting case

> study

> >

> > Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

> >

> > Pranaams Dear Jay:

> >

> > You make me laugh [and infact still laughing] :-D

>

> >

> > You are quite knowledgeable compared to me and who

> am I to argue?

> >

> > But yes, not just the "AS IS"; the rules of

> Vedanga Jyotisha [as

> Jyotish

> > is a limb of Vedas] do state so.

> >

> > It makes sense in many ways too. We are in Kali

> Yuga and therefore

> all

> > the sorrows and sadness that boomerang around are

> really going to

> make

> > Brahma a lot busier than he already is!

> >

> > It would be ideal for everyone to be sattwic and

> that is what Sata

> Yuga

> > stands for. And I have long pondered just why it

> is that our

> planet's

> > equator that revolves ALSO on its own axis

> [Equinoxal

> Precission

> > that takes roughly 24,000 years] creates so much

> drama?

> >

> > To avoid confusion, I mean that even the *axis*

> of our planet

> revolves

> > in a circle that takes 24,000 years [roughly]

> and this is what

> makes

> > the stars and nakshatras look different [in their

> positions] as

> ages and

> > yugas go by. But OK, I will settle with Krittika

> being the main

> > reference in our ...er... this period.

> >

> > This is ALSO the reason that we are still hunting

> for a CORRECT and

> > PERFECT ayanamsa and also the reason why we cannot

> just simply say

> that

> > Bhagwan Sri Rama was born at a particular time. We

> have Bhagwan's

> > kundali based solely on events of life [or I have

> really been

> asleep and

> > missed a lot of messages].

> >

> > Instead of diverting too much, in short....

> >

> > The problem of curses seems to stay [for a long

> time. LOL] And the

> other

> > unpleasant thing about sorrows, sadness, shrappa,

> curses, etc. is

> > that....

> >

> > If you have pissed off [sorry for the language as

> no other

> appropriate

> > word describes this best] multiple people and made

> them sorry,

> then you

> > need forgiveness from ALL of them. Just a single

> atma forgiving

> you is

> > NOT enough!

> >

> > So your assessment is right about "the majority

> of the worlds

> > population in the "affected by curses" group", and

> while I hope

> Brahma

> > takes a vacation on Bhu Loka, I think we must wait

> for another Sata

> > Yuga?

> >

> > Hey Jay, just what can I say? :-)

> >

> > With that, please convey my best regards to all

> your loved ones

> ever

> > and you take care too.

> >

> > Aum Namo Narayana

> >

> > Kind regards and best wishes from

> >

> > Ron Bach

> >

> > jayhw@t... wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ron,

> > Thanks for your interesting mail regarding curses.

> > Taking your points "AS IS" will theoretically

> place the majority

> of the

> > worlds population in the "affected by curses"

> group, or shall we

> say

> > that the "none affected" group is a fraction of

> the total worls

> > population.

> > I like to read your comment.

> >

> > Kind regards

> > Jay Weiss

> >

> > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

> > Send a blank mail

> > To :

> -

> > To :

>

> >

> > <> Terms of

> Service.

> >

> > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

> > Send a blank mail

> > To :

> -

> > To :

>

> >

> > <> Terms of

> Service.

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

>

<http://rd./M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1

> 705

> >

>

082690:HM/A=1524963/R=0/SIG=12o885gmo/*http:/hits.411web.com/cgi-

> bin/aut

> > oredir?camp=556&lineid=3614674¢ç=egroupweb&pos=HM>

>

> >

> > <http://us.adserver./l?

> M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egrou

> > pmail/S=:HM/A=1524963/rand=957535234>

> >

> > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

> > Send a blank mail

> > To :

> -

> > To :

>

> >

> > <> Terms of

> Service.

>

> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

> Send a blank mail

> To : -

> To :

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

=====

Jagannathan .

______________________

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

Go to http://.shaadi.com

Sign In

RE: FW: [SJC: Achyuta Gurukul] On Jyotish Art, and Faith/early morning rumination

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Support the Ashram

Join Groups

Top Downloads