FW: [SJC: Achyuta Gurukul]On Jyotish Art, and Faith/early morning rumination

[Guest guest]

Dear Sarajit,

 

So good to see your posts, will read them all- and thank you for

writing.

My response is in this and a bit earlier one on This life karma,

just a bit above, please see it.

 

You are totally 'right wing', dear Sarajit- 100% determinism, how do

you manage to be so gentle, polite, nice 'and friendly to all' and

such a 'fatalist' /yes dear Sanjay/+ have you ever wondered if it's

healthy attitude?- Ah, stupid Q, that's all destined.

/We don't need Psy's- our Ontario 'right wing'Government shares that

attitude, and health care/m.health area in partic./cut is felt here.

You don' have this life bad karma, being so very nice a person.

Provided that you accept the concept!

 

Let me play with this- you know me, I like to laugh and play /when

crying permits :)One hypothetical Q- what if God doesn't like that

you accept so humbly whatever comes,taking it as written personally

by God Himself? He may be 'saying' I granted him so many nice

faculties, he should do something for his happiness..or else along

this line..And find you need 'more pressure' to get the lesson

learned. But Sarajit is not averse of learning, don't pile him with

new load, Cn Lagna cries in your 'defence'- yes but this may be the

MAJOR ONE! Take the action, animate friends, Fight harder for

improvinng this material realm of life. And you getting the

bigger 'servings'each time, so that hopefully you'll say, I tried

this, let me try another way around!

 

 

No need to comment on indignant refusal to accept a piece, even

small one of 'free will'. Sure, I think diffrently, but I love

diversity too, and I've accepted your view as equally valid as mine,

already. In fact, that's good for me, you'll get deeper answers and

share them with me, so I can go to those concerts, exibitions,

restaurants jyotish study prevented me from attending.

 

Thanks a lot, friend!

 

I will be sending my best wishes your way all the time.

 

Speaking on karma, I definitevely have bad computer karma- WORM

32/Swen /no, not swan/disabled all programs.

I cannot write before I fix the problem.

If you, ot anybody from the lists wrote to my address directly

I appologize that mails were bounced,

 

and please forward any messages you sent to me to address

bona_mente

Goodbuy MS Outlook /what's happening with Bill now, will he have

enough money to reimburse me for suffering bcs of

his 'vulnerabilities', invoice prepared.

 

Best wishes,

Rice

 

, "Sarajit Poddar" <sarajit@s...>

wrote:

>

>

>

> Sarajit Poddar [sarajit@s...]

> Sunday, September 21, 2003 8:06 AM

> ''

> RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] On Jyotish Art, and Faith

>

> || Jaya Jagannath ||

> Dear Anna,

>

> Beautiful! First of all, I donot think that it is human

intelligence

> which has created the difference in faiths. If God didn¡Çt want to

> create such different faiths, why are they here? We can see in

nature,

> that the whole nature is full of diversities and each one of the

diverse

> members are equally necessary for the world to continue. There is a

> perfect order in the universe which the ancients called the Rta and

> nothing is out of accident or sheer chance.

>

> It is no accident that we are born in a particular family,

professing a

> particular faith and have a specific belief system. Judging

ourselves

> who is right and who is wrong, who is superior and who is inferior

> amounts to not trusting the divine purpose. This is as it supposed

to

> be. Why need conversion than¡Ä Frankly speaking, if God want us to

> convert from one religion to other, then he can do it during our

birth

> making us born in a family which professes a particular religion,

> otherwise HE would give us enough reason, purpose and impetus to

act

> upon this change. So we are just behaving the way he wanted us to

be. So

> we are happy to profess our own faith and still putting all our

effort

> in understanding the True nature of our SELF and the Creation.

>

> Just my little thoughts, I wish I would not be dragged into any

> controversies...lol

>

> Best Wishes

> Sarajit

>

>

>

>

> N.Anna [anmar@a...]

> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:56 PM

>

> [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul/On

Jyotish

> Art, and Faith

>

> Dear Jay and Ron, Sureshbaby, Ramesh, Phyl, Roik/Das, and all,

>

> I enjoyed Jay's and Ron's posts- so important issues, indeed- I

perceive

> that most important of all is 'worshiping issue', and I am glad

that you

> Ron quoted Sanjay's piece of advice in this matter- be honest in

your

> prayers and worship, you can worship in accordance with your belief

> system, each and every belief, faith, religion, is valuable, no

need to

> get converted to Hinduism if you love Jyotish. /my 'rumination' on

> Sanjay's words quoted/

>

> That is what I believe in. Nobody is meant to be insulted, for I

may be

> what I believe in and you what you believe in, I may be wrong, you

may

> be right. What I will say bellow, please accept as my belief only,

which

> crystallized for me by exposure to millions of experiences I've

> accumulated in this short existence of mine. Also, please forgive

me

> that I am identified with my beliefs, you don't need to be angry

at me

> for being what I am.

>

> So, IMO, Jyotish is above petty fighting whose religion is

the 'right'

> one. /What I like the most about Narasimha is his fervent faith

that I

> can find in my own heart, what I like the most about Sanjay is his

> stable introspective faith undisturbed by his acceptance of any

faith

> of others, for I feel it should be that way, what I love the most

about

> my mother is her genuine deep, profound, faith that doesn't need to

> prove anything to anybody, for I've struggled to reach that 'noble'

> level myself/. I believe, some automatic acceptance of Beautiful

Symbols

> of Hinduism as 'own faith' is such a laziness /!/, since we are

more

> than "temporary" 'creatures of faith'. I believe WE ARE creatures

of

> FAITH, whether we are practicing Hindu, Christian, Moslem, or

> 'agnostics', since we are gorgeous, UNIQUE 'compound' of our

personal,

> family, nation, race, karma- one can get rid of your personal faith

> either by conversion to faith other than one we were born with, or

by

> rejecting it altogether- nobody can run away too far from

> herself/himself, collective Karma, collective consciousness in

one's

> deeper layers will always be there, thus create ng mess in one's

mind

> and

> that of his progeny. /Brendan Feely can help me here 'prove' my

point/.

> G.Das/Roik 'syndrome' comes to my mind, I like both Das and Roik

> honestly.

>

> Hope I was able to get my point across.

> (Or may that be just be my 'domesticated Jupiter in Pi.?)

>

> Warmest wishes to all, since we have at least one big thing in

common,

> our love for amazing art of JYOTISH

>

> Anna

>

> -

> J. Weiss <jayhw@t...>

>

> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:38 AM

> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case

study

>

>

> Dear Ron,

>

> Can't say that I disagree with anything you wrote, on the

contrary.

>

> Loved your "curses = UNFULFILLED DESIRES" - makes it

more "realistic"

> and suitable for our times.

> Sanjay provided us with many wise "pearls" in the past which we all

> could learn from including the one you mentioned.

>

> The "% amount" of free will can be extracted from the chart based

on the

> planets position and strength (old Jyotish stuff). I will try to

get in

> touch with the author to have his permission to publish the

article on

> the list for the benefit of all.

>

> Your contact offer is accepted.

>

> Kind regards

> Jay Weiss

>

> -

> Ron <humbleshishya@n...> Bach

>

> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:50 PM

> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case

study

>

> Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

>

> Pranaams Dear Jay:

>

> Agreed with your points about "belief systems" and "easy way out".

>

> I even tried to compose several replies. However, finally I

decided that

> this is a Jyotish list and we could well end up offending a lot of

> different groups based JUST on what you or I think is

representative of

> factors in distant past [i think you get the hint].

>

> What I could say here in response to your post is something I

remember

> Gurudeva Sanjay Rath Ji once saying.... and it is a wise piece of

> advice:

>

> "If one starts worshipping a rock or just about any object, then

Bhagwan

> will manifest for the one from that rock or object".

>

> Well, good enough for me.

>

> And as per your observation that curses should not be taken

lightly...

> Well, I agree with that as well and the way I see curses are like

> UNFULFILLED DESIRES.

>

> So if we were to go back to the theory of Karma and somehow blend

the

> curses into the Karmic cycle [Rahu/Ketu as the keys], then somehow

> rebirth would be signified there and give added weighing factor to

the

> rules that are included in our syllabus.

>

> As per the article you are mentioning, well, I have not had the

chance

> of reading it. But yes, I do agree that we all have 33% free will.

These

> are the upachaya sthanas [3rd, 6th, and 11th] and that is what we

have

> free will upon.

>

> Unfortunately two of these are dusthanas and in any case, neither

of

> these represent the important pivots in a chart or the skies above

[as

> above so below]. I consider the quadrants and trines to be pivots.

>

> There are unseen forces not understood well enough [at lest by me];

> which the sages and saints understood very well and we are but on

the

> journey in their footsteps. I am sure both you and I will have

much to

> explore and share and in that aspect, I look forward to discussing

> these issues with you.... perhaps via private email [as we both

have

> each other's] or by Conference.

>

> Alongside that, Jay, I wish you all the best and I have always

read all

> your posts and comments and have tremendous respect for your views

and

> opinions.

>

> I must check my chart today for why I am posting so much and why

or what

> is the Nimmitta that has reconnected you and me in this wonderful

> discussion :-)

>

> With that... please convey my best regards to all your loved ones

ever

> and you and everyone else take care too.

>

> Aum Namo Narayana

>

> Kind regards and best wishes from

>

> Ron Bach

>

> jayhw@t... wrote:

>

>

>

> Nicely answered Ron.

> Indeed some of the points you mention here may be valid within a

> specific belief system but on the other hand wouldn't it also

be "the

> easy way out" - blaming all/most of our misfortunes on curses ?

> One may arrive at the "conclusion" that the souls of the past did

> nothing else but curse each other for every little thing (I can

already

> HEAR you laughing...).

>

> Jokes aside, I think that the issue of curses is a very serious

one, and

> has to be taken with reservation whenever there is the slightest

doubt.

> Each and everyone of us still have a portion of free will ... (see

the

> book "Imperial Insights in Vedic Astrology" by R.K. Wishwakarma,

#2 "Law

> of karma, fate and free will" --- I wish I could mail this article

to

> the list, but than I'll be breaking the copywrite ...not fair...)

>

> Kind regards

> Jay Weiss

>

> -

> Ron <humbleshishya@n...> Bach

>

> Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:18 AM

> Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case

study

>

> Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

>

> Pranaams Dear Jay:

>

> You make me laugh [and infact still laughing] :-D

>

> You are quite knowledgeable compared to me and who am I to argue?

>

> But yes, not just the "AS IS"; the rules of Vedanga Jyotisha [as

Jyotish

> is a limb of Vedas] do state so.

>

> It makes sense in many ways too. We are in Kali Yuga and therefore

all

> the sorrows and sadness that boomerang around are really going to

make

> Brahma a lot busier than he already is!

>

> It would be ideal for everyone to be sattwic and that is what Sata

Yuga

> stands for. And I have long pondered just why it is that our

planet's

> equator that revolves ALSO on its own axis [Equinoxal

Precission

> that takes roughly 24,000 years] creates so much drama?

>

> To avoid confusion, I mean that even the *axis* of our planet

revolves

> in a circle that takes 24,000 years [roughly] and this is what

makes

> the stars and nakshatras look different [in their positions] as

ages and

> yugas go by. But OK, I will settle with Krittika being the main

> reference in our ...er... this period.

>

> This is ALSO the reason that we are still hunting for a CORRECT and

> PERFECT ayanamsa and also the reason why we cannot just simply say

that

> Bhagwan Sri Rama was born at a particular time. We have Bhagwan's

> kundali based solely on events of life [or I have really been

asleep and

> missed a lot of messages].

>

> Instead of diverting too much, in short....

>

> The problem of curses seems to stay [for a long time. LOL] And the

other

> unpleasant thing about sorrows, sadness, shrappa, curses, etc. is

> that....

>

> If you have pissed off [sorry for the language as no other

appropriate

> word describes this best] multiple people and made them sorry,

then you

> need forgiveness from ALL of them. Just a single atma forgiving

you is

> NOT enough!

>

> So your assessment is right about "the majority of the worlds

> population in the "affected by curses" group", and while I hope

Brahma

> takes a vacation on Bhu Loka, I think we must wait for another Sata

> Yuga?

>

> Hey Jay, just what can I say? :-)

>

> With that, please convey my best regards to all your loved ones

ever

> and you take care too.

>

> Aum Namo Narayana

>

> Kind regards and best wishes from

>

> Ron Bach

>

> jayhw@t... wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Ron,

> Thanks for your interesting mail regarding curses.

> Taking your points "AS IS" will theoretically place the majority

of the

> worlds population in the "affected by curses" group, or shall we

say

> that the "none affected" group is a fraction of the total worls

> population.

> I like to read your comment.

>

> Kind regards

> Jay Weiss

>

>

> [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

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