FW: [SJC: Achyuta Gurukul] On Jyotish Art, and Faith

September 20, 2003

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Sarajit Poddar

[sarajit (AT) (DOT) org]

color:windowtext">Sunday, September 21, 2003

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RE: [sJC: Achyuta

Gurukul] On Jyotish Art, and Faith

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">|| Jaya Jagannath ||

Dear Anna,

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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Beautiful! First of all, I donot think

that it is human intelligence which has created the difference in faiths. If

God didn¡Çt want to create such different faiths, why are they here? We can see

in nature, that the whole nature is full of diversities and each one of the

diverse members are equally necessary for the world to continue. There is a

perfect order in the universe which the ancients called the Rta and nothing is

out of accident or sheer chance.

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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">It is no accident that we are born in a

particular family, professing a particular faith and have a specific belief

system. Judging ourselves who is right and who is wrong, who is superior and

who is inferior amounts to not trusting the divine purpose. This is as it

supposed to be. Why need conversion than¡Ä Frankly speaking, if God want us to

convert from one religion to other, then he can do it during our birth making

us born in a family which professes a particular religion, otherwise HE would

give us enough reason, purpose and impetus to act upon this change. So we are

just behaving the way he wanted us to be. So we are happy to profess our own

faith and still putting all our effort in understanding the True nature of our

SELF and the Creation.

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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Just my little thoughts, I wish I would

not be dragged into any controversies...lol

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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Best Wishes

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Sarajit

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-----Original

Message-----

N.Anna [anmar (AT) attcanada (DOT) ca]

Tuesday,

September 16, 2003

11:56

PM

[sJC: Achyuta Gurukul]

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul/On Jyotish Art, and Faith

Dear Jay and Ron,

Sureshbaby, Ramesh, Phyl, Roik/Das, and all,

I enjoyed Jay's and

Ron's posts- so important issues, indeed- I perceive that most important of all

is 'worshiping issue', and I am glad that you Ron quoted Sanjay's

piece of advice in this matter- be honest in your prayers and worship, you can

worship in accordance with your belief system, each and every belief, faith,

religion, is valuable, no need to get converted to Hinduism if you love

Jyotish. /my 'rumination' on Sanjay's words quoted/

That is what I believe in.

Nobody is meant to be insulted, for I may be what I believe in and you

what you believe in, I may be wrong, you may be right. What I will say bellow,

please accept as my belief only, which crystallized for me by exposure to

millions of experiences I've accumulated in this short existence of mine. Also,

please forgive me that I am identified with my beliefs, you don't need to be

angry at me for being what I am.

So, IMO, Jyotish is above

petty fighting whose religion is the 'right' one. /What I like the

most about Narasimha is his fervent faith that I can find in my own

heart, what I like the most about Sanjay is his stable

introspective faith undisturbed by his acceptance of any faith of

others, for I feel it should be that way, what I love the most about my mother

is her genuine deep, profound, faith that doesn't need to prove anything

to anybody, for I've struggled to reach that 'noble' level myself/. I

believe, some automatic acceptance of Beautiful Symbols of Hinduism as 'own

faith' is such a laziness /!/, since we are more than

"temporary" 'creatures of faith'. I believe WE ARE creatures of

FAITH, whether we are practicing Hindu, Christian, Moslem, or 'agnostics',

since we are gorgeous, UNIQUE 'compound' of our personal, family, nation,

race, karma- one can get rid of your personal faith either

by conversion to faith other than one we were born with, or by

rejecting it altogether- nobody can run away too far from herself/himself,

collective Karma, collective consciousness in one's deeper layers will

always be there, thus create ng mess in one's mind and

that of his progeny.

/Brendan Feely can help me here 'prove' my point/. G.Das/Roik 'syndrome' comes

to my mind, I like both Das and Roik

honestly.

Hope I was able to get my

point across.

(Or may that be just be

my 'domesticated Jupiter in Pi.?)

Warmest wishes to all,

since we have at least one big thing in common, our love for amazing art

of JYOTISH

Anna

----- Original Message

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font-weight:bold">J. Weiss

10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Tuesday, September 16, 2003

font-family:Arial">8:38 AM

Re: [sJC:

Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case study

Dear Ron,

Can't say that I

disagree with anything you wrote, on the contrary.

Loved your

"curses = UNFULFILLED DESIRES" - makes it more

"realistic" and suitable for our times.

Sanjay provided us

with many wise "pearls" in the past which we all could learn

from including the one you mentioned.

The "%

amount" of free will can be extracted from the chart based on the planets

position and strength (old Jyotish stuff). I will try to get in touch with the

author to have his permission to publish the article on the list for the

benefit of all.

Your contact offer

is accepted.

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

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----- Original

Message -----

font-weight:bold">Ron

Bach

10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Tuesday, September 16, 2003

font-family:Arial">12:50 PM

Re: [sJC:

Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case study

bold">Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

Pranaams Dear Jay:

Agreed with your points about "belief systems" and

"easy way out".

I even tried to compose several replies. However, finally I decided that this

is a Jyotish list and we could well end up offending a lot of different groups

based JUST on what you or I think is representative of factors in distant past

[i think you get the hint].

What I could say here in response to your post is something I remember Gurudeva

Sanjay Rath Ji once saying.... and it is a wise piece of advice:

"If one starts worshipping a rock or just about any object, then Bhagwan

will manifest for the one from that rock or object".

Well, good enough for me.

And as per your observation that curses should not be taken lightly... Well, I

agree with that as well and the way I see curses are like UNFULFILLED DESIRES.

So if we were to go back to the theory of Karma and somehow blend the curses

into the Karmic cycle [Rahu/Ketu as the keys], then somehow rebirth would be

signified there and give added weighing factor to the rules that are included

in our syllabus.

As per the article you are mentioning, well, I have not had the chance of

reading it. But yes, I do agree that we all have 33% free will. These are the

upachaya sthanas [3rd, 6th, and 11th] and that is what we have free will upon.

Unfortunately two of these are dusthanas and in any case, neither of these

represent the important pivots in a chart or the skies above [as above so

below]. I consider the quadrants and trines to be pivots.

There are unseen forces not understood well enough [at lest by me]; which the

sages and saints understood very well and we are but on the journey in their

footsteps. I am sure both you and I will have much to explore and share and in

that aspect, I look forward to discussing these issues with you....

perhaps via private email [as we both have each other's] or by

Conference.

Alongside that, Jay, I wish you all the best and I have always read all your

posts and comments and have tremendous respect for your views and opinions.

I must check my chart today for why I am posting so much and why or what is the

Nimmitta that has reconnected you and me in this wonderful discussion :-)

With that... please convey my best regards to all your loved ones ever and you

and everyone else take care too.

Aum

Namo Narayana

Kind regards and best wishes from

Ron Bach

jayhw (AT) telia (DOT) com wrote:

Nicely answered

Ron.

Indeed some of the points

you mention here may be valid within a specific belief system but on the other

hand wouldn't it also be "the easy way out" - blaming all/most

of our misfortunes on curses ?

One may arrive

at the "conclusion" that the souls of the past did nothing else

but curse each other for every little thing (I can already HEAR you

laughing...).

Jokes aside, I

think that the issue of curses is a very serious one, and has to be taken with

reservation whenever there is the slightest doubt.

Each and everyone

of us still have a portion of free will ... (see the book "Imperial

Insights in Vedic Astrology" by R.K. Wishwakarma, #2 "Law of karma,

fate and free will" --- I wish I could mail this article to the list, but

than I'll be breaking the copywrite ...not fair...)

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

----- Original Message

-----

Ron

Bach

To:

Sent:

Tuesday, September 16, 2003

11:18 AM

Subject:

Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] matching-an interesting case study

bold">Aum Namo Bhagvate Hrishikeshayaa

Pranaams Dear Jay:

You make me laugh [and infact still laughing] :-D

You are quite knowledgeable compared to me and who am I to argue?

But yes, not just the "AS IS"; the rules of Vedanga Jyotisha [as

Jyotish is a limb of Vedas] do state so.

It makes sense in many ways too. We are in Kali Yuga and therefore all the

sorrows and sadness that boomerang around are really going to make Brahma a lot

busier than he already is!

It would be ideal for everyone to be sattwic and that is what Sata Yuga stands

for. And I have long pondered just why it is that our planet's

equator that revolves ALSO on its own axis [Equinoxal

Precission that takes roughly 24,000 years] creates so much drama?

To avoid confusion, I mean that even the *axis* of our planet

revolves in a circle that takes 24,000 years [roughly] and

this is what makes the stars and nakshatras look different [in their positions]

as ages and yugas go by. But OK, I will settle with Krittika being the

main reference in our ...er... this period.

This is ALSO the reason that we are still hunting for a CORRECT and PERFECT

ayanamsa and also the reason why we cannot just simply say that Bhagwan Sri

Rama was born at a particular time. We have Bhagwan's kundali based solely on

events of life [or I have really been asleep and missed a lot of messages].

Instead of diverting too much, in short....

The problem of curses seems to stay [for a long time. LOL] And the other

unpleasant thing about sorrows, sadness, shrappa, curses, etc. is that....

If you have pissed off [sorry for the language as no other appropriate word

describes this best] multiple people and made them sorry, then you need

forgiveness from ALL of them. Just a single atma forgiving you is NOT enough!

So your assessment is right about "the

majority of the worlds population in the "affected by curses"

group", and while I hope Brahma takes a vacation on Bhu Loka, I

think we must wait for another Sata Yuga?

Hey Jay, just what can I say? :-)

With that, please convey my best regards to all your loved ones ever and

you take care too.

font-weight:bold">Aum Namo Narayana

Kind regards and best wishes from

Ron Bach

jayhw (AT) telia (DOT) com wrote:

Dear Ron,

Thanks for your

interesting mail regarding curses.

Taking your points

"AS IS" will theoretically place the majority of the

worlds population in the "affected by curses" group, or shall we say

that the "none affected" group is a fraction of the total worls

population.

I like to read

your comment.

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

[Om

Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

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September 20, 2003