[SJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Illusionary World

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the thought provoking answers. I am not sure what are the

different philosophies you mentioned like dualism, qualified dualism etc...but

will lookup.

Thanks,

ACdhamakesin <dhamakesin (AT) sysmatrix (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear AC,Perhaps some of these answers will help. Also refer to the Bhagavad

Gita, chapter 8.Your wrote: I found the following philosophy in one of Pandit

Sanjay Rath's articles: "There are neither real enemies nor any real diseases

in this illusionary world. These are only means for the Lord to punish us for

our sins. "These are the questions you posed and some answers.Q. If there are

no real enemies and no real diseases, then why should the sins be considered

real ?A. From the perspective of the true Self, the world is unreal and only

Spirit is real.Q. After all mostly we act against people whom we think are our

enemies. So if enemy is not real then our action will not have to power to

actually hurt them.....so how can our action against them i.e. our sin against

them, be real ?Q.

True, our actions in the dream world have only dream power, so cannot hurt the

only reality, Spirit. The Soul ever remains free and untouched by the world.

But dream actions have dream effects and as long as we believe them to be real

hurt the embodied ego, but never touch the Soul.Q. Then why should God want to

punish us for illusionary sins ?A. The punishment is also illusionary. The

dreamer dreams it to be so. The alternate explaination is that we would ever

remain in ignorance with the Soul identified with the body, if there were not

something to make us turn from the world. Karma is another term for "tough

love". God does not wish for us to suffer, but to be free from desire and

attachment to the world which causes suffering.Q. Then this brings to mind

another question, if everything IS illusionary what is the purpose of our

existance ? A. God dreams the world as an enjoyment.

Made of the same Spirit and having the same nature, we also dream. The true

Self is ever existing conscious bliss. That Self requires no purpose other

than to be. Physical embodiment is caused by the existence of material

desires. Having physical experiences free us from desires, and also create

further binding desires, until we act with detachment and humility.Q. Another

question, even if it is true that God gives us rebirth to punish us for our

sins, for whatever reasons and logic beyond human (at least mine!)

understanding, why does he make us do sins in the first place....what was in

God's mind when he created our Universe??A. The world is said to be Gods lila

or play. Perhaps when we began our outward evolution from Spirit to Causal,

then Subtle, then Physical embodiment, we had a say in it, and at that time

made a choice, rather than being compelled to live in the world of

suffering. If that is true then can we say we are being punished?Q. If

everything is controlled by God, then even the free will to not sin is

controlled by him, then why is he making us sin and then punishing us.A. We

have free will to act, the problem is solved once we realize that God and Soul

are one and the same. Then the individual Soul's will is God's will.Q. This

brings us back to square one...what is the purpose of our existance?A. It is

said that God gave us free will that we might choose to love Him. Note that

this is not forced love for then that would only be force, the opposite of love

or attraction.Q. On the other hand, If everything is not controlled by God

which means free will to sin is not fully controlled by him, then by whom is it

controlled? Or is anyone higher up in the heirarchy of

animals-humans-superhumans-God-"?" ?A. From a dualistic

perspective, that which has no free will is controlled by God. That which has

free will is of the nature of God. From a non-dualistic perspective all is

Spirit (Consciousness) or Brahman.Q. Or Are we on this planet by

chance...(seems unthinkable)?? A. Not by chance, by choice.I hope these are

helpful and they may just be a beginning as there are many perspectives:

dualism, qualified non-dualism, non-dualism, pantheism, monotheism. Based upon

your evolutionary point, one of these may be appropriate for you, as the

capability to understand changes as we progress and requires a new

explaination., agatha christie

<agathachristie22> wrote:> > > Dear Members,> > I found the following

philosophy in one of Pandit Sanjay Rath's articles:> "There are neither real

enemies nor any real diseases in this illusionary

world. > These are only means for the Lord to punish us for our sins. "> > This

brought to my mind another question, which is, if there are no real enemies and

no real diseases, then why should the sins be considered real ? Afterall mostly

we act against people whom we think are our enemies. So if enemy is not real

then our action will not have to power to actually hurt them.....so how can our

action against them i.e. our sin against them, be real ?> > Then why should God

want to punish us for illusionary sins ? Then this brings to mind another

question, if everything IS illusionary what is the purpose of our existance ? >

> Another question, even if it is true that God gives us rebirth to punish us

for our sins, for whatever reasons and logic beyond human (atleast mine!)

understanding, why does he make us do sins in the first place....what was in

God's mind when he created our

Universe??....if everything is controlled by God...then even the freewill to not

sin is controlled by him...then why is he making us sin and then punishing us.

This brings us back to square one...what is the purpose of our existance? > >

On the other hand, If everything is not controlled by God which means freewill

to sin is not fully controlled by him, then by whom is it controlled? Or is

anyone higher up in the heirarchy of animals-humans-superhumans-God-"?" ?> Or

Are we on this planet by chance...(seems unthinkable)?? > > I would greatly

appreciate all your views on this topic. Thanks!> > Regards,> AC> > > >

> > SiteBuilder - Free,

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

If you can permit me,let me tell you one funny story

which I happened to hear from one of my friends.

Once upon a time one Guru-Maharaj was taking a class

for his disciples in a thick jungle.He was keen on

making them understand that this world is illusory out

and out.(Maya-Vadam).About a dozen pupils were

attentively listening to his lesson.Suddenly one of

them happened to see an elephant rushing towards them

from at a distance.It appeared to be quite a mad

elephant.The disciple drew the attention of his

Guru-Maharaj to the elephant.Then the Guru-Maharaj

without any second thought asked all his disciples to

run away from the place as fast as they could

do.Instead of running away from the spot as directed

by his Guru-Maharaj, he asked,"When everything is

illusory ,including the mad elephant,why should we run

and save ourselves from the socalled impending danger

?."The Guru-Maharaj answered,"True,the mad elephant is

Maya.If you run for your life and save your self, that

too will be Maya only.Therefore be wise and run

away?."

 

Pranams to Gurus,

With regards,

Jagannathan.

jagannathankr

 

 

 

 

--- agatha christie <agathachristie22

wrote: > Dear Dhamakesin,

>

> Thank you for the thought provoking answers. I am

> not sure what are the different philosophies you

> mentioned like dualism, qualified dualism etc...but

> will lookup.

> Thanks,

> AC

>

> dhamakesin <dhamakesin wrote:

> Dear AC,

>

> Perhaps some of these answers will help. Also refer

> to the Bhagavad

> Gita, chapter 8.

>

> Your wrote: I found the following philosophy in one

> of Pandit Sanjay

> Rath's articles: "There are neither real enemies nor

> any real

> diseases in this illusionary world. These are only

> means for the Lord

> to punish us for our sins. "

>

> These are the questions you posed and some answers.

>

> Q. If there are no real enemies and no real

> diseases, then why should

> the sins be considered real ?

> A. From the perspective of the true Self, the world

> is unreal and

> only Spirit is real.

>

> Q. After all mostly we act against people whom we

> think are our

> enemies. So if enemy is not real then our action

> will not have to

> power to actually hurt them.....so how can our

> action against them

> i.e. our sin against them, be real ?

> Q. True, our actions in the dream world have only

> dream power, so

> cannot hurt the only reality, Spirit. The Soul ever

> remains free and

> untouched by the world. But dream actions have

> dream effects and as

> long as we believe them to be real hurt the embodied

> ego, but never

> touch the Soul.

>

> Q. Then why should God want to punish us for

> illusionary sins ?

> A. The punishment is also illusionary. The dreamer

> dreams it to be

> so. The alternate explaination is that we would

> ever remain in

> ignorance with the Soul identified with the body, if

> there were not

> something to make us turn from the world. Karma is

> another term

> for "tough love". God does not wish for us to

> suffer, but to be free

> from desire and attachment to the world which causes

> suffering.

>

> Q. Then this brings to mind another question, if

> everything IS

> illusionary what is the purpose of our existance ?

> A. God dreams the world as an enjoyment. Made of

> the same Spirit and

> having the same nature, we also dream. The true

> Self is ever

> existing conscious bliss. That Self requires no

> purpose other than

> to be. Physical embodiment is caused by the

> existence of material

> desires. Having physical experiences free us from

> desires, and also

> create further binding desires, until we act with

> detachment and

> humility.

>

> Q. Another question, even if it is true that God

> gives us rebirth to

> punish us for our sins, for whatever reasons and

> logic beyond human

> (at least mine!) understanding, why does he make us

> do sins in the

> first place....what was in God's mind when he

> created our Universe??

> A. The world is said to be Gods lila or play.

> Perhaps when we began

> our outward evolution from Spirit to Causal, then

> Subtle, then

> Physical embodiment, we had a say in it, and at that

> time made a

> choice, rather than being compelled to live in the

> world of

> suffering. If that is true then can we say we are

> being punished?

>

> Q. If everything is controlled by God, then even the

> free will to not

> sin is controlled by him, then why is he making us

> sin and then

> punishing us.

> A. We have free will to act, the problem is solved

> once we realize

> that God and Soul are one and the same. Then the

> individual Soul's

> will is God's will.

>

> Q. This brings us back to square one...what is the

> purpose of our

> existance?

> A. It is said that God gave us free will that we

> might choose to

> love Him. Note that this is not forced love for

> then that would only

> be force, the opposite of love or attraction.

>

> Q. On the other hand, If everything is not

> controlled by God which

> means free will to sin is not fully controlled by

> him, then by whom

> is it controlled? Or is anyone higher up in the

> heirarchy of animals-

> humans-superhumans-God-"?" ?

> A. From a dualistic perspective, that which has no

> free will is

> controlled by God. That which has free will is of

> the nature of

> God. From a non-dualistic perspective all is Spirit

> (Consciousness)

> or Brahman.

>

> Q. Or Are we on this planet by chance...(seems

> unthinkable)??

> A. Not by chance, by choice.

>

> I hope these are helpful and they may just be a

> beginning as there

> are many perspectives: dualism, qualified

> non-dualism, non-dualism,

> pantheism, monotheism. Based upon your evolutionary

> point, one of

> these may be appropriate for you, as the capability

> to understand

> changes as we progress and requires a new

> explaination.

>

>

> , agatha christie

>

> <agathachristie22> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > I found the following philosophy in one of Pandit

> Sanjay Rath's

> articles:

> > "There are neither real enemies nor any real

> diseases in this

> illusionary world.

> > These are only means for the Lord to punish us for

> our sins. "

> >

> > This brought to my mind another question, which

> is, if there are no

> real enemies and no real diseases, then why should

> the sins be

> considered real ? Afterall mostly we act against

> people whom we think

> are our enemies. So if enemy is not real then our

> action will not

> have to power to actually hurt them.....so how can

> our action against

> them i.e. our sin against them, be real ?

> >

> > Then why should God want to punish us for

> illusionary sins ? Then

> this brings to mind another question, if everything

> IS illusionary

> what is the purpose of our existance ?

> >

> > Another question, even if it is true that God

> gives us rebirth to

> punish us for our sins, for whatever reasons and

> logic beyond human

> (atleast mine!) understanding, why does he make us

> do sins in the

> first place....what was in God's mind when he

> created our

> Universe??....if everything is controlled by

> God...then even the

> freewill to not sin is controlled by him...then why

> is he making us

> sin and then punishing us. This brings us back to

> square one...what

> is the purpose of our existance?

> >

> > On the other hand, If everything is not controlled

> by God which

> means freewill to sin is not fully controlled by

> him, then by whom is

> it controlled? Or is anyone higher up in the

> heirarchy of animals-

> humans-superhumans-God-"?" ?

> > Or Are we on this planet by chance...(seems

> unthinkable)??

> >

> > I would greatly appreciate all your views on this

> topic. Thanks!

> >

> > Regards,

> > AC

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site

> design software

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=====

 

 

 

Jagannathan .

 

 

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