[SJC: Achyuta Gurukul] worship of human beings

[Guest guest]

Dear Prashant

! Hare Krsna !

Please accept my humble obeisancesI agree with you somewhat.

If our goal is the lotus feet of Lord Krishna and our activities and worship are

leading us to this transcendental position

If by worshipping humans/parents/actors you are actually progressing in

spiritual life towards Lord Krishna's lotus feet then it is considered

favourable.

Although I do not think you will find shashtra supporting this to be a method

that the Lord has given us.

In fact it could be harmful for the human being worshipped as God by others.

He/she may fall in the trappings of puffed up false prestige. So why would you

risk doing that to your parents? Better the whole family together worships the

Lord under the umbrella of the spiritual master. We may not realise it yet but

this is real intelligence.

Best wishes

Kasim

>"prashantnarang"

> >

>[sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: worship of human beings >Thu, 26 Jun

2003 23:33:14 -0000 > >hi all, > what alexandr is trying 2 say is different from

wat u've understood >kasim.... >for eg if i consider xyz as god, & start

worshipping him , invent a >pooja style & arti for sri xyz person. then that

sloka applies , >lordkrisna(or whosoever u believe) is the ultimate or

suppreme. > >but, if u worship ur parents like how pundarik did, lord vishnu

will >come to u to bless u . i was listening to a 'hir'- punjabi folk >song;

allah was so very happy with ranjha's love for hir, that HE >invited him to his

abode. >provided there is pure love & true devotion. where there is true >love,

there cannot be 'asakti' , if there is no 'asakti' then that >relationship is

divine, kasim who is god, god is noone , but ocean >of pure love & u'll realize

god in that relationship. >people worship saligram-a stone in india, they nevr

call it stone , >they call it thakur ji. because they worship their lord in

that >stone. sikhs have personified sri gurugranth sahib as their ultimate

>guru. the press where that book is published, or place where >shaligrama r

sold, do u think those people care the same way? for >them its just a product

to sell. >if u can worship an idol, u can worship a human being too. >i remeber

an instnace, it was in erly 90's , when mahabharata was >telecasted on indian

national television , it got record no of >viewer ship- one of most popular tv

serials of india. >the person who played lord krisna's role din't get just

popularity, >but immense respect too. >once an old lady somehow managed to

interrupt the shootin & touched >his feet, she started crying badly, asked for

his help & blessings... >an educated person understands that what is being

shown is just tv >serail, but she doensnt , so does that mean her devotion is

towards >that man? & not to lord krisna..? >doesn't gita say that a gnani

siddha see HIM in every living-non- >living craeture, bhakti can see him even

in the hole of a needle.. >reading gita is easy, understanding same is very

difficult. without >his grace , one just can't understand the subtle bhavas of

the >almighty. i din't mean any offence to u , we all r not sidhha but

>sadhakas, so, we r prone to confusion(rahu) . > with regards >prashant > > >

>, "Alexandra Kafka" > wrote: > > Every

human is an incarnation of God, right? > > So can one reach enlightenment by

worshipping any ordinary person >as god/goddess? > > Does that only work with

Avatars, or certain spiritual advanced >persons like ones Guru? > > Or does

that also work with commpletely ordinary persons? > > For instance Indian women

in erlier times regarded their husbands >as gods, and then there is also the

worship of Devi in form of >virginal girls. > Add photos to your messages with

MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

May I give my opinion?.It is my belief that

every particle of the system of great

personalities like Lord Krishna, lord Rama and

such others of other religions is nothing but

transformed energy and nothing but energy and

its absolute form. If anyone meditates on such

human form ,he or she will automatically absorb

the essence of spiritual condition gradually and

ultimately attain the final state of existence

..This is the reason ,I believe,as to why elders

have advised that great men ought to be

worshipped.

With regards,

Jagannathan.

 

 

 

--- Kasim Choudhary <kasim_c wrote:

 

 

Dear Prashant

 

! Hare Krsna !

 

Please accept my humble obeisances

 

I agree with you somewhat.

 

If our goal is the lotus feet of Lord Krishna and our

activities and worship are leading us to this

transcendental position

 

If by worshipping humans/parents/actors you are

actually progressing in spiritual life towards Lord

Krishna's lotus feet then it is considered favourable.

 

Although I do not think you will find shashtra

supporting this to be a method that the Lord has given

us.

 

In fact it could be harmful for the human being

worshipped as God by others. He/she may fall in the

trappings of puffed up false prestige. So why would

you risk doing that to your parents? Better the whole

family together worships the Lord under the umbrella

of the spiritual master. We may not realise it yet but

this is real intelligence.

 

Best wishes

 

Kasim

 

>"prashantnarang"

 

 

 

>

>

>[sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: worship of human

beings

>Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:33:14 -0000

>

>hi all,

> what alexandr is trying 2 say is different from wat

u've understood

>kasim....

>for eg if i consider xyz as god, & start worshipping

him , invent a

>pooja style & arti for sri xyz person. then that

sloka applies ,

>lordkrisna(or whosoever u believe) is the ultimate or

suppreme.

>

>but, if u worship ur parents like how pundarik did,

lord vishnu will

>come to u to bless u . i was listening to a 'hir'-

punjabi folk

>song; allah was so very happy with ranjha's love for

hir, that HE

>invited him to his abode.

>provided there is pure love & true devotion. where

there is true

>love, there cannot be 'asakti' , if there is no

'asakti' then that

>relationship is divine, kasim who is god, god is

noone , but ocean

>of pure love & u'll realize god in that relationship.

 

>people worship saligram-a stone in india, they nevr

call it stone ,

>they call it thakur ji. because they worship their

lord in that

>stone. sikhs have personified sri gurugranth sahib as

their ultimate

>guru. the press where that book is published, or

place where

>shaligrama r sold, do u think those people care the

same way? for

>them its just a product to sell.

>if u can worship an idol, u can worship a human being

too.

>i remeber an instnace, it was in erly 90's , when

mahabharata was

>telecasted on indian national television , it got

record no of

>viewer ship- one of most popular tv serials of india.

 

>the person who played lord krisna's role din't get

just popularity,

>but immense respect too.

>once an old lady somehow managed to interrupt the

shootin & touched

>his feet, she started crying badly, asked for his

help & blessings...

>an educated person understands that what is being

shown is just tv

>serail, but she doensnt , so does that mean her

devotion is towards

>that man? & not to lord krisna..?

>doesn't gita say that a gnani siddha see HIM in every

living-non-

>living craeture, bhakti can see him even in the hole

of a needle..

>reading gita is easy, understanding same is very

difficult. without

>his grace , one just can't understand the subtle

bhavas of the

>almighty. i din't mean any offence to u , we all r

not sidhha but

>sadhakas, so, we r prone to confusion(rahu) .

> with regards

>prashant

>

>

>

>, "Alexandra

Kafka"

> wrote:

> > Every human is an incarnation of God, right?

> > So can one reach enlightenment by worshipping any

ordinary person

>as god/goddess?

> > Does that only work with Avatars, or certain

spiritual advanced

>persons like ones Guru?

> > Or does that also work with commpletely ordinary

persons?

> > For instance Indian women in erlier times regarded

their husbands

>as gods, and then there is also the worship of Devi

in form of

>virginal girls.

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Jaganathan

! Hare Krishna !

I think this will be very interesting and enjoyable for you to read.....

Chapter 9. The Most Confidential Knowledge

TEXT 11

avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam param bhavam ajananto mama bhuta-mahesvaram

SYNONYMS

avajananti--deride; mam--Me; mudhah--foolish men; manusim--in human form;

tanum--body; asritam--assuming; param--transcendental; bhavam--nature;

ajanantah--not knowing; mama--Mine; bhuta--everything that be;

maha-isvaram--the supreme proprietor.

TRANSLATION

Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My

transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.

PURPORT (from AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)

>From the other explanations of the previous verses in this chapter, it is clear

that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although appearing like a human being,

is not a common man. The Personality of Godhead, who conducts the creation,

maintenance and annihilation of the complete cosmic manifestation, cannot be a

human being. Yet there are many foolish men who consider Krsna to be merely a

powerful man and nothing more. Actually, He is the original Supreme

Personality, as is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita (isvarah paramah krsnah); He

is the Supreme Lord. There are many isvaras, controllers, and one appears

greater than another. In the ordinary management of affairs in the material

world, we find some official or director, and above him there is a secretary,

and above him a minister, and above him a president. Each of them is a

controller, but one is controlled by another. In the Brahma-samhita it is said

that Krsna is the supreme controller; there are many controllers undoubtedly,

both in the material and spiritual world, but Krsna is the supreme controller

(isvarah paramah krsnah) and His body is sac-cid-ananda, nonmaterial. Material

bodies cannot perform the wonderful acts described in previous verses. His body

is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. Although He is not a common man, the

foolish deride Him and consider Him to be a man. His body is called here manusim

because He is acting just like a man, a friend of Arjuna's, a politician

involved in the Battle of Kuruksetra. In so many ways He is acting just like an

ordinary man, but actually His body is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha--eternal bliss and

knowledge absolute. This is confirmed in the Vedic language also

(sac-cid-ananda-rupaya krsnaya): "I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme

Personality of Godhead, Krsna, who is the eternal blissful form of knowledge."

There are other descriptions in the Vedic language also. Tam ekam govindam:

"You are Govinda, the pleasure of the senses and the cows."

Sac-cid-ananda-vigraham: "And Your form is transcendental, full of knowledge,

bliss and eternality." Despite the transcendental qualities of Lord Krsna's

body, its full bliss and knowledge, there are many so-called scholars and

commentators of Bhagavad-gita who deride Krsna as an ordinary man. The scholar

may be born an extraordinary man due to his previous good work, but this

conception of Sri Krsna is due to a poor fund of knowledge. Therefore he is

called mudha, for only foolish persons consider Krsna to be an ordinary human

being because they do not know the confidential activities of the Supreme Lord

and His different energies. They do not know that Krsna's body is a symbol of

complete knowledge and bliss, that He is the proprietor of everything that be

and that He can award liberation to anyone. Because they do not know that Krsna

has so many transcendental qualifications, they deride Him. Nor do they know

that the appearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this material

world is a manifestation of His internal energy. He is the master of the

material energy. As has been explained in several places (mama maya duratyaya),

He claims that the material energy, although very powerful, is under His

control, and whoever surrenders unto Him can get out of the control of this

material energy. If a soul surrendered to Krsna can get out of the influence of

material energy, then how can the Supreme Lord, who conducts the creation,

maintenance and annihilation of the whole cosmic nature, have a material body

like us? So this conception of Krsna is complete foolishness. Foolish persons,

however, cannot conceive that the Personality of Godhead, Krsna, appearing just

like an ordinary man, can be the controller of all the atoms and of the gigantic

manifestation of the universal form. The biggest and the minutest are beyond

their conception, so they cannot imagine that a form like that of a human being

can simultaneously control the infinite and the minute. Actually although He is

controlling the infinite and the finite, He is apart from all this

manifestation. It is clearly stated concerning His yogam aisvaram, His

inconceivable transcendental energy, that He can control the infinite and the

finite simultaneously and that He can remain aloof from them. Although the

foolish cannot imagine how Krsna, who appears just like a human being, can

control the infinite and the finite, those who are pure devotees accept this,

for they know that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore they

completely surrender unto Him and engage in Krsna consciousness, devotional

service of the Lord. There are many controversies amongst the impersonalists

and the personalists about the Lord's appearance as a human being. But if we

consult Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, the authoritative texts for

understanding the science of Krsna, then we can understand that Krsna is the

Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is not an ordinary man, although He appeared

on this earth as an ordinary human. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto, First

Chapter, when the sages inquire about the activities of Krsna, it is stated that

His appearance as a man bewilders the foolish. No human being could perform the

wonderful acts that Krsna performed while He was present on this earth. When

Krsna appeared before His father and mother, Vasudeva and Devaki, He appeared

with four hands, but after the prayers of the parents, He transformed Himself

into an ordinary child. His appearance as an ordinary human being is one of the

features of His transcendental body. In the Eleventh Chapter of the Gita also it

is stated, tenaiva rupena etc. Arjuna prayed to see again that form of four

hands, and when Krsna was thus petitioned by Arjuna, He again assumed His

original form. All these different features of the Supreme Lord are certainly

not those of an ordinary human being. Some of those who deride Krsna, who are

infected with the Mayavadi philosophy, quote the following verse from the

Srimad-Bhagavatam to prove that Krsna is just an ordinary man. Aham sarvesu

bhutesu bhutatmavasthitah sada: "The Supreme is present in every living

entity." (Bhag. 3.29.21) We should better take note of this particular verse

from the Vaisnava acaryas like Jiva Gosvami instead of following the

interpretation of unauthorized persons who deride Krsna. Jiva Gosvami,

commenting on this verse, says that Krsna, in His plenary expansion as

Paramatma, is situated in the moving and the nonmoving entities as the

Supersoul, so any neophyte devotee who simply gives his attention to the

arca-murti, the form of the Supreme Lord in the temple, and does not respect

other living entities is uselessly worshiping the form of the Lord in the

temple. There are three kinds of devotees of the Lord, and the neophyte is in

the lowest stage. The neophyte devotee gives more attention to the Deity in the

temple than to other devotees, so Jiva Gosvami warns that this sort of mentality

should be corrected. A devotee should see that Krsna is present in everyone's

heart as Paramatma; therefore every body is the embodiment or the temple of the

Supreme Lord, and as such, as one offers respect to the temple of the Lord, he

should similarly properly respect each and every body in whom the Paramatma

dwells. Everyone should therefore be given proper respect and should not be

neglected. There are also many impersonalists who deride temple worship. They

say that since God is everywhere, why should one restrict himself to temple

worship? But if God is everywhere, is He not in the temple or in the Deity?

Although the personalist and the impersonalist will fight with one another

perpetually, a perfect devotee in Krsna consciousness knows that although Krsna

is the Supreme Personality, He is all-pervading, as is confirmed in the

Brahma-samhita. Although His personal abode is Goloka Vrndavana and He is

always staying there, still, by His different manifestations of energy and by

His plenary expansion, He is present everywhere in all parts of the material

and spiritual creations.

Best wishes

Kasimhttp://www.asitis.com/

>kapisthalam jagannathan

> >

>Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: worship of human beings >Fri, 27

Jun 2003 14:58:31 +0100 (BST) > >Dear Sir, >May I give my opinion?.It is my

belief that >every particle of the system of great >personalities like Lord

Krishna, lord Rama and >such others of other religions is nothing but

>transformed energy and nothing but energy and >its absolute form. If anyone

meditates on such >human form ,he or she will automatically absorb > the

essence of spiritual condition gradually and > ultimately attain the final

state of existence >.This is the reason ,I believe,as to why elders >have

advised that great men ought to be >worshipped. >With regards, >Jagannathan.

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