: Saiva schools and sects

[Guest guest]

Dear Siva,

Thanks for the post.

I had some further queries and was wondering if it is right to ask this, but

still attempting since i have been thinking about it for a long time.

1. Does anyone have the chart details of the Divine Babaji and the other

physical immortal saints. How would one see the concept of longetivity in such

charts?

2. Also when u say that they just disappear, is it that they now go to higher

dimensions like the 5th dimension etc. due to which we humans can't see them.

Would be thankful for your reply.

Light and Joy

Sunil John

Message: 1 Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:54:21 -0000 "schinnas

<schinnas >" <schinnas >Re: Saiva schools and

sectsDear Alexandra, Veera Saivam is another famous Saiva school (or

religion) which is against the concept of varna/caste and many other beliefs of

traditional hinduism. However, in practise I learnt that this religion is

considered as a caste in India and followed only in tradition and not in spirit

(like most other religions, I might add!).There is another major religion called

Suddha sanmargam which originated from Tamil Saiva Siddhanta, but it does not

worship Shiva or any other form of God. The major exponent of this religion is

the famous Saint Ramalinga Adigalar (www.vallalar.org). I am giving below the

salient features of Sanmargam as I understand it. The goal of Sanmargam is to

attain immortality with the human body itself and it asserts that real moksha

is attainment of immortality with a deathless body. Ramalinga Adigalar attained

immortality It also declares that the concept of idol worship and varna are

just symbolisms and need not be followed. While Sanmargam holds vedas, purans,

Saiva Siddhanta literature etc to be true, it also accuses

vedas/puranas/scriptures of hiding the real truth behind mythical locks and

asserts that all other religious paths including vedanta are just stepping

stones to Sanmargam. As a result, Ramalinga Adigalar asks his disciples to stop

spending time in trying to break the "locks" of vedas and puranic literature

(like Mahabharatha, Ramayana, etc) but to follow Sanmargam. A fundamental

philosophy of this path is that there is only one god who permeates everything

and is to be seen in the form of divine grace light. True compassion towards

all jeevas (plants and animals) and sincere bhakthi is necessary to bring in

grace of God by which deathlessness can be attained. A person that attains

deathless body dissolves into ether/space. They will NOT leave their body

behind. From Agastya, Thirumoolar, Bogar, Babaji (paramguru of Yogananda),

Madhavacharya, Adi Shankara, nayanmars of Saiva Siddhanta tradition, to

Ramalinga Adigalar, many have attained such deathlessness (they never left

their physical body dead - they just disappeared). The classic Thiruarutpa

narrates each stage in attaining deathlessness and the first stage is

attainment of suddha deham (or pure body). It says such a body will not cast

its shadow on earth. Indeed, many saints never left their shadow and neither

can be photographed (Modern examples: Lahiri Mahasaya - Paramguru of

Paramahansa Yogananda, Ramalinga Adigalar, etc.) In final stages, the physical

body cannot be seen by ordinary eyes, and the person disappears! Sanmargam

declares that those saints that leave a dead body will be born again but in

higher lokhas and havent attained final moksha.There are also other forms of

Saiva Siddhanta which are referred to in centuries old classical texts in

Tamil. However, I am not aware of those and they dont have any mass following

currently.-Siva.

/shop?d=browse&id=20146735">Send Flowers for Valentine's Day

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil,

To answer your first question, one of the saints who attained

immortality was Jesus Christ. (After his resurrection and subsequent

disappearance, his body vanished in graveyard - it is a recorded

fact, but some dispute it, from what I understand). I assume you

could find his birth data with some effort. Jesus' resurrection and

miracles have been verified through yogic visions by advanced yogis

like Yogananda/Lahiri Mahasaya.

 

On vedic astrology list I posted the birth details (approximate) of

Ramalinga Swami who attained the same state in 19th century in

India. PVRji did a thorough job of blind chart analysis for that

birth data and Chandrasekarji did a good blind chart analysis aswell.

 

Reg Babaji, some of his birth info is recorded in the book "Babaji

and 18 Siddha Kriya Yoga tradition", but I doubt you will get his

accurate birth time there. However, there is a good discussion of

bodily immortality in that book. Yogi Aurbindo Gosh and Mother also

has talked about bodily immortality and verified many of the

experiences in that process stated by Ramalinga Adigalar in his

book - Thiruarutpa.

 

Personally, I dont think astrology will throw light about the

feats of such saints as they have crossed the karmic boundaries. I

have raised similar questions on how to assess miracles of sages on

VA list as part of the blind chart puzzle to PVRji and I am waiting

for his response. Most sages and saints dont dwell into the concept

of bodily immortality for whatever reasons. I dont know whether

Patanjali yoga sutras talk about it, but Patanjali's fellow yogi

Thirumoolar, desciple of Sage Nandi and a great Siddha was the only

one to write a very detailed account on immortality and secrets of

yoga sutras that pertain to it in his classic Thirumanthiram. You

can find the english translation of the book if you are interested.

After Thirumanthiram, from what I know it is Thirarutpa of Ramalinga

Adigal which details the process of attaining physical immortality,

but his peoms only account the details that occur during each stage

and indicates the path of compassion and bhakthi for attaining it.

It doesnt talk about tantra and yoga.

 

Some advanced disciples of Babaji (such as Yogi S.A.A. Ramiah)

might be a good living source to get more info in this topic.

Yukteshwar and Yogananda were not the only ones to have live contact

with Babaji - there are many other yogis such as Ramiah but they

live a very low profile life and people are unaware of such yogis.

 

Lahiri Mahasaya was supposed to have discussed a lot about the

concept of immortality to his disciples, but that material is not

easily available. Lahiri Mahasaya has attained most of the stages in

that process and could make himself invisible at will, but he didnt

attain (or choose to attain) the final stage of bodily immortality.

One may have to contact some very advanced disciples in the line of

Lahiri Mahasaya for more information.

 

To answer your second question, I just dont know. I need to evolve

spiritually much more before feeling/understanding such things

 

regards,

Siva.

 

, Sunil John

<suniljohn_2002> wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Siva,

>

> Thanks for the post.

>

> I had some further queries and was wondering if it is right to ask

this, but still attempting since i have been thinking about it for a

long time.

>

> 1. Does anyone have the chart details of the Divine Babaji and the

other physical immortal saints. How would one see the concept of

longetivity in such charts?

>

> 2. Also when u say that they just disappear, is it that they now

go to higher dimensions like the 5th dimension etc. due to which we

humans can't see them.

>

> Would be thankful for your reply.

>

> Light and Joy

>

> Sunil John

>

> Message: 1

> Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:54:21 -0000

> "schinnas <schinnas>" <schinnas>

> Re: Saiva schools and sects

>

> Dear Alexandra,

> Veera Saivam is another famous Saiva school (or religion) which

is

> against the concept of varna/caste and many other beliefs of

> traditional hinduism. However, in practise I learnt that this

> religion is considered as a caste in India and followed only in

> tradition and not in spirit (like most other religions, I might

add!).

>

> There is another major religion called Suddha sanmargam which

> originated from Tamil Saiva Siddhanta, but it does not worship

Shiva

> or any other form of God. The major exponent of this religion is

the

> famous Saint Ramalinga Adigalar (www.vallalar.org). I am giving

below

> the salient features of Sanmargam as I understand it.

>

> The goal of Sanmargam is to attain immortality with the human body

> itself and it asserts that real moksha is attainment of

immortality

> with a deathless body. Ramalinga Adigalar attained immortality It

> also declares that the concept of idol worship and varna are just

> symbolisms and need not be followed. While Sanmargam holds vedas,

> purans, Saiva Siddhanta literature etc to be true, it also accuses

> vedas/puranas/scriptures of hiding the real truth behind mythical

> locks and asserts that all other religious paths including vedanta

> are just stepping stones to Sanmargam. As a result, Ramalinga

> Adigalar asks his disciples to stop spending time in trying to

break

> the "locks" of vedas and puranic literature (like Mahabharatha,

> Ramayana, etc) but to follow Sanmargam. A fundamental philosophy

of

> this path is that there is only one god who permeates everything

and

> is to be seen in the form of divine grace light. True compassion

> towards all jeevas (plants and animals) and sincere bhakthi is

> necessary to bring in grace of God by which deathlessness can be

> attained. A person that attains deathless body dissolves into

> ether/space. They will NOT leave their body behind. From Agastya,

> Thirumoolar, Bogar, Babaji (paramguru of Yogananda),

Madhavacharya,

> Adi Shankara, nayanmars of Saiva Siddhanta tradition, to Ramalinga

> Adigalar, many have attained such deathlessness (they never left

> their physical body dead - they just disappeared). The classic

> Thiruarutpa narrates each stage in attaining deathlessness and the

> first stage is attainment of suddha deham (or pure body). It says

> such a body will not cast its shadow on earth. Indeed, many saints

> never left their shadow and neither can be photographed (Modern

> examples: Lahiri Mahasaya - Paramguru of Paramahansa Yogananda,

> Ramalinga Adigalar, etc.) In final stages, the physical body

cannot

> be seen by ordinary eyes, and the person disappears! Sanmargam

> declares that those saints that leave a dead body will be born

again

> but in higher lokhas and havent attained final moksha.

>

> There are also other forms of Saiva Siddhanta which are referred

to

> in centuries old classical texts in Tamil. However, I am not aware

of

> those and they dont have any mass following currently.

>

> -Siva.

>

>

>

>

>

> Send Flowers for Valentine's Day