Guest guest Posted October 1, 2002 Report Share Posted October 1, 2002 Om Gurave Namah Dear Jyotisha, Gurus & all, The events following the recent announcement made my myself have been quite a learning experience and only confirm the teachings of our Param Guru Sri Achyuta Dasa (please read some of the articles on the Janaka shadakshara mantra, Vrindavati sadhana etc if you have not read them). As Narasimha has correctly pointed out, the Parampara and the Organisation are separate like the Satya Peetha (Lagna) and the Maya (Arudha). The Satya or the Parampara exists all the time and cannot be destroyed. What is 'created or destroyed' is the Arudha. Eversince we started teaching, we have had the desire to have a new Arudha (Vehicle or body) for carrying forward the teachings in an organised manner and for which purpose we have spoken to different persons, requested help and have also given certain responsibilities. The Arudha is the Sri Jagannath Vedic Center which was created in India in 1998 and finally came into being in 2001 in the form of a Trust registered with the Government of India at Delhi. Being the vehicle (Rath) or Jagannath, this is large enough to carry all in it. It is important to understand that ages back Sri Achyuta Dasa had also created such centers called Gaddi (in oriya meaning seats/centers of learning). The Guru being the representive head of the Satya Peetha (Lagna) was not allowed to have anything to do with the Maya Peetha (AL) which was normally looked after/headed by one of the senior Sisya. The Guru would concern himself with the Major activity of the propagation of knowledge and the admission and exit of people into the Center. The entire management of the Center rested with the other head. In similar lines, we have nothing to do with the creation or running of these Centers and have given the responsibility to others. One such responsibility was given to Dinanath Das who with the help of Kusa Devi was to form SJVC in the USA. It was but natural that when the formation of this was taking an inordinately long time, we decided to request Sri Brendan Feeley to organise this. Being a very able organiser, Brendan immediately organised the East Coast & West Coast conferences with the help of Lakshmi Devi (Lynn Kary). They have proved their abilities beyond an iota of doubt and the correct thing is to allow them to be the President & Secretary of the Arudha (Vehicle) i.e. SJVC or SJC or whatever name that you wish to name the vehicle, my only request being to retain 'Sri Jagannath..in the begining'. On the other hand, with the blessings of Sri Jagannath, Kusa Devi has become the head of the Hawaii temple and that is a full time responsibility. She is working hard to spread the Mahamantra, a task which befits her spiritual development and sincerity. It would not be in the best interests of either ISKCON or us that we request her to look after SJVC. Her husband, Sruta Kirti Maharaj has served Srila Prabhupada for many many years and was kind enough to be the President of SJVC when the organisation was being set up. He is not knowledgable in Jyotish but is very spiritually evolved. Dinanath is the secretary of SJVC. Thus, there are two issues - One of the Administrative structure and the second of the Teaching structure. SJVC has also been growing by the day and it was not possible for us to screen, examine and decide about the Jyotish Gurus throughout the world. So, we delegated these tasks to (a) Sri Robert Koch (a.k.a. Patraka Das) for the western region comprising North & South America and (b) Pearl Finn for Europe. The Guru is responsible for ensuring that the learning of Jyotish proceeds without hindrance, that a decent atmosphere prevails in all the forum where this is taught, and that there are competent Jyotisha, designated as Jyotish guru, who shall teach the subject. Mere knowledge of te subject mater is sufficient for a person to qualify to teach the subject and when this is done, he is normally given the mantra and becomes a Jyotish guru. The Jyotish Guru is expected to recite the (specific Gayatri) mantra every day and there are other conditions that will enable them to be good teachers. However, the Guru nominated by us for the regions are expected to guide the Jyotish Guru's in matters of conflict, differing opinions on the subject and maintain a healthy atmosphere for learning. Although they have no role to play in the administration of SJVC, they have to be a part of the 'legal' setup which is necessary as per prevailing laws in each region. SJVC can only be a non-profit organisation and is secular in the positive sense of the word i.e. belief in God and encourages spirituality. The President and Secretary are to be the real executives of SJVC, and perhaps, as Narasimha had pointed out, there should be a treasurer who shall be responsible for audit and financial management. Thus, for the (a) USA, the President & Secretary shall be Dr.Brendan Feeley & Lakshmi Devi respectively, and for (b) Ireland, the President & Secretary(s) shall be John and Fiona & Helen respectively. The Problem definition: Problem ariese out of the perception of what the Jyotish Guru should be doing. The Jyotish Guru is supposed to teach Jyotish and not involve in administrative matters unless he is explicitly directed by the Guru to do so. In thi9s context, long back we had asked Dinanath to setup the organisation. Having done so, and on my request, he should step down and hand this over to the ones who have been chosen for the purpose so that we all benefit from their administrative abilities. Problem arises when the perception changes and the realisation is lost that the SJVC is the vehicle for the Parampara and not vice versa just like ISKCON being the vehicle for the Mahamantra and not vice versa. The Mahamantra does not depend on ISKCON and this should be realised. The mantra continues to exist in perpetuity as it is an integral part of Satya Peetha and is the Yuga Nivarana Mantra (I shall write about this when translating the works of Achyuta Dasa). We had been advised that there can be separate organisations registered for each state just as it was done for ISKCON, so that if one is sued, the others do not have to pay. See how much the church has to pay for lack of this legal foresight. Srila Prabhupada had also agreed to this. Based on the name of Prabhupada, I had agreed initially, but then this is grossly wrong. If a person representing the organisation is getting sued for misdeed, then th organisation should ake the responsibility of not having handled this properly or not having had strict rules about its functioning. Just because there is a loophole in the law does not mean that we should exploit it. I have been a lawmaker in India for many years working with major structural reforms in the economy and cannot agree to this any further. If someone representing the organisation has done a misdeed, then the organisation has to accept the responsibility. Hence we have to be very careful about certification etc, for which the executive officers of SJVC shall be responsible. Srila Prabhupada did not forsee how some of the temple presidents have 'run away' with the temples and would never have agreed to this if he had the time and inclination for deep thought into these legalities. Prabhupada was immersed in Krishna consciousness and the Arudha had little meaning for such a realised soul. Let us learn spirituality from him and not administration. Learn Jyotish from us and not other things. 'Every saint had a past and every sinner has a future' has been one of our fundamental teachings. Sri Robert Koch was not convinced as to why he should not charge for the services like teaching that he renders. It seems most logical from the western viewpoint for money for work. However, the teaching, if done in the Parampara implies a sacred transmission of knowledge called 'Paraa Vidya' which is different from Aparaa Vidya. The purity (Niranjana) is lost if there is any touch of rajas or tamas in this transmission and neither can the teacher teach properly nor is the sisya going to learn properly. Predictions will fail, understanding will be lacking, genuineness and compassion will be absent and the most holy relationship of Guru- Sisya shall be lost. Parampara is not a group or gang or class in any form or manner, nor can there be any time limit to the learning process. It has to be a natural pace. Parampara means ONLY THREE - Sisya (Student), Guru (Teacher) and Ista (God). Thus, none other is there in the picture - no father, mother, brother, friends, colleagues..nobody at all. This is a very clear and simple picture to visualise and this link alone matters. The rest is all asat or the illusion of the Arudha. I will give the detailed writings of Sri Achyuta Das on this at a later date. When we visited the USA and discussed this and so many things with Sri Robert Koch and others, they all agreed to teach free of cost, so where is the question of charging fees etc? There is unanimity in this issue and there is no need to throw brickbats at anyone. In any case, learned people in a democratic nation will never agree to your view point if you throw brick bats at them. This has to be reasoned calmly and gradually accepted. Dinanath was not the first one to raise this issue, and Narasimha had done so earlier. On my advise, he had decided to wait. People need time to think over the new knowledge, advise etc, and this seeps in gradually. It cannot happen overnight, especially for older people. I believe that simple because someone like Dinanath was not kept informed does not mean that Robert is wrong. He does not have to give an explanation to anyone. Dinanath: To respect elders and not to humilate a lady (especially in public) is a sign of a gentleman. There was no need for Dinanath to do this and hence, he was expelled from SJVC, whether this has been carried out or not is to be checked from Kusa Devi. There are other things that have been done which are quite shocking to say the least. The reasons for this can be traced to his chart and the curse of maternal uncle therein (Chart attached). Those who attended my lectures at the West Coast will be able to easily see this. Mercury is in debility ans is afflicted by Saturn & Rahu (Graha dristi). curse is complete. Neecha bhanga and redemption from curse comes due to Guru in Lagna. Parasara teaches that the ONLY waay out is to worship Sri Vishnu, which I believe he is doing. He is runing Rahu dasa Mercury antardasa (Moon Vimsottari) and in the Moola Dasa, the dasa is of Rahu. Please get the tapes/CDs on my lectures on Curses, remedial measures and Moola dasa to understand the implications clearly. Many people were wondering as to why the Guru's are all quiet. Well, this was done on our request that a tit-for-tat is not called for and this is our opportunity to actually show that we deserve to be called Guru's. We must exercise constraint realising that here is a troubled soul, who just like us has taken rebirth due to a curse, and has to face terrible hostility from his colleagues (Mercruy - relations, colleagues etc) due to a curse from the last incarnation. If we cannot understand this, who else will? In fact Narasimha & I have had a very detailed discussion on his chart, the present Tithi pravesh etc. You can examine this and exchange views if you wish, but please remember that this is and shall continue to be an ASHRAM. What is not-at-all surprising is that Dinanath threatened legal action if the CDs or tapes of our teachings are sold! Please note that the one person who shall benefit the most from this knowledge is he himself, and he is stopping it or rather Buddha Mahagraha is stopping the remedy from reaching him. In any case, the teachings cannot be stopped even if the CDs are. I hope Kusa Devi is able to set things right as administration is a painful task and hate to trouble her when she already has a much better work of handling the Hawaii temple. Nobod is running away with any funds or donations. These funds will be accounted for and such accounts will be submitted, after audit to the government regulatory authority in the country, be it India, USA or Ireland for the present. The accounts will also be circulated among the Jyotish Guru's in the Vyasa E-list for Jyotish Gurus. Donaors will have the privilege of seeing the accounts. We have nothing to hide, at least being Jyotisha's, we know that nothing is hidden from Him. So, what is the point in trying to hide. We have clearly stated our views and have also given the clear reasons for the same. If someone thinks that they can run away with the Arudha and the Lagna shall follow, sorry this does not happen. Another Arudha starts. One Arudha follows another just like we discard an old car and buy another, but Satya never changes. We have left it to Kusa Devi to do the needful and hope that this is done failing which another Arudha can be registered and the good work can continue. Sri Brendan Feeley shall keep you informed about the developments in this regard. We hope the Cds and other reading material can be made available at an early date for the benefit of all. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti Sanjay Rath ---- ------------------------------- 71 Vasant Apartments, Mayur Vihar Ph-1, New Delhi 110091, India Tel:+91-11-2713201, Web: http://srath.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2002 Report Share Posted October 1, 2002 Dear Sanjay Rath, Appreciate your email! I discontinued my membership to an otherwise useful organization in the USA, primarily due to charging $100/hour for teaching! I checked with a number of individuals (will not mention names) more than once, and came to realize they acted as a group, sticking to the $100, even when the org is not mentioned. Also, never got a response of a joytish guru from your org, but was sent ongoing emails of members querys, to which there were a lot (for me at least, did not very useful as a learning tool). Hope this new org here will provide free teaching without underlying purposes?! If to be, glad to participate both as a student and offer my on going knowledge and experience in "Vedic Astrology," of over 7 years, as a teacher - free of charge, and in any other way can assist. Regards, Will Hobbs, DPh; ND, NMD candidate. --- Sanjay Rath <daivagyna wrote: > Om Gurave Namah > Dear Jyotisha, Gurus & all, > > The events following the recent announcement > made my myself have > been quite a learning experience and only confirm > the teachings of > our Param Guru Sri Achyuta Dasa (please read some of > the articles on > the Janaka shadakshara mantra, Vrindavati sadhana > etc if you have not > read them). As Narasimha has correctly pointed out, > the Parampara > and the Organisation are separate like the Satya > Peetha (Lagna) and > the Maya (Arudha). The Satya or the Parampara exists > all the time and > cannot be destroyed. What is 'created or destroyed' > is the Arudha. > Eversince we started teaching, we have had the > desire to have a new > Arudha (Vehicle or body) for carrying forward the > teachings in an > organised manner and for which purpose we have > spoken to different > persons, requested help and have also given certain > responsibilities. > The Arudha is the Sri Jagannath Vedic Center which > was created in > India in 1998 and finally came into being in 2001 in > the form of a > Trust registered with the Government of India at > Delhi. Being the > vehicle (Rath) or Jagannath, this is large enough to > carry all in it. > It is important to understand that ages back Sri > Achyuta Dasa had > also created such centers called Gaddi (in oriya > meaning > seats/centers of learning). The Guru being the > representive head of > the Satya Peetha (Lagna) was not allowed to have > anything to do with > the Maya Peetha (AL) which was normally looked > after/headed by one of > the senior Sisya. The Guru would concern himself > with the Major > activity of the propagation of knowledge and the > admission and exit > of people into the Center. The entire management of > the Center rested > with the other head. In similar lines, we have > nothing to do with the > creation or running of these Centers and have given > the > responsibility to others. One such responsibility > was given to > Dinanath Das who with the help of Kusa Devi was to > form SJVC in the > USA. > > It was but natural that when the formation of > this was taking an > inordinately long time, we decided to request Sri > Brendan Feeley to > organise this. Being a very able organiser, Brendan > immediately > organised the East Coast & West Coast conferences > with the help of > Lakshmi Devi (Lynn Kary). They have proved their > abilities beyond an > iota of doubt and the correct thing is to allow them > to be the > President & Secretary of the Arudha (Vehicle) i.e. > SJVC or SJC or > whatever name that you wish to name the vehicle, my > only request > being to retain 'Sri Jagannath..in the begining'. On > the other hand, > with the blessings of Sri Jagannath, Kusa Devi has > become the head of > the Hawaii temple and that is a full time > responsibility. She is > working hard to spread the Mahamantra, a task which > befits her > spiritual development and sincerity. It would not be > in the best > interests of either ISKCON or us that we request her > to look after > SJVC. Her husband, Sruta Kirti Maharaj has served > Srila Prabhupada > for many many years and was kind enough to be the > President of SJVC > when the organisation was being set up. He is not > knowledgable in > Jyotish but is very spiritually evolved. Dinanath is > the secretary of > SJVC. Thus, there are two issues - One of the > Administrative > structure and the second of the Teaching structure. > > SJVC has also been growing by the day and it was > not possible for > us to screen, examine and decide about the Jyotish > Gurus throughout > the world. So, we delegated these tasks to (a) Sri > Robert Koch > (a.k.a. Patraka Das) for the western region > comprising North & South > America and (b) Pearl Finn for Europe. The Guru is > responsible for > ensuring that the learning of Jyotish proceeds > without hindrance, > that a decent atmosphere prevails in all the forum > where this is > taught, and that there are competent Jyotisha, > designated as Jyotish > guru, who shall teach the subject. Mere knowledge of > te subject mater > is sufficient for a person to qualify to teach the > subject and when > this is done, he is normally given the mantra and > becomes a Jyotish > guru. The Jyotish Guru is expected to recite the > (specific Gayatri) > mantra every day and there are other conditions that > will enable them > to be good teachers. However, the Guru nominated by > us for the > regions are expected to guide the Jyotish Guru's in > matters of > conflict, differing opinions on the subject and > maintain a healthy > atmosphere for learning. Although they have no role > to play in the > administration of SJVC, they have to be a part of > the 'legal' setup > which is necessary as per prevailing laws in each > region. SJVC can > only be a non-profit organisation and is secular in > the positive > sense of the word i.e. belief in God and encourages > spirituality. > > The President and Secretary are to be the real > executives of > SJVC, and perhaps, as Narasimha had pointed out, > there should be a > treasurer who shall be responsible for audit and > financial > management. Thus, for the (a) USA, the President & > Secretary shall be > Dr.Brendan Feeley & Lakshmi Devi respectively, and > for (b) Ireland, > the President & Secretary(s) shall be John and Fiona > & Helen > respectively. > > The Problem definition: > Problem ariese out of the perception of what the > Jyotish Guru > should be doing. The Jyotish Guru is supposed to > teach Jyotish and > not involve in administrative matters unless he is > explicitly > directed by the Guru to do so. In thi9s context, > long back we had > asked Dinanath to setup the organisation. Having > done so, and on my > request, he should step down and hand this over to > the ones who have > been chosen for the purpose so that we all benefit > from their > administrative abilities. Problem arises when the > perception changes > and the realisation is lost that the SJVC is the > vehicle for the > Parampara and not vice versa just like ISKCON being > the vehicle for > the Mahamantra and not vice versa. The Mahamantra > does not depend on > ISKCON and this should be realised. The mantra > continues to exist in > perpetuity as it is an integral part of Satya Peetha > and is the Yuga > Nivarana Mantra (I shall write about this when > translating the works > of Achyuta Dasa). > > We had been advised that there can be separate > organisations > registered for each state just as it was done for > ISKCON, so that if > one is sued, the others do not have to pay. See how > much the church > has to pay for lack of this legal foresight. Srila > Prabhupada had > also agreed to this. Based on the name of > Prabhupada, I had agreed > initially, but then this is grossly wrong. If a > person representing > === message truncated === New DSL Internet Access from SBC & http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2002 Report Share Posted October 1, 2002 <<< Sanjay's original mail is 18032. Go to vedic astrology/message/18032 >>> Jaya Jaganntha Pranaams Sanjay, A lot of students, followers and well-wishers of SJVC parampara were baffled by the recent goings on and I am glad that you clarified in detail and put things in the right perspective. Visti wrote on gjlist yesterday: "Dinanatha has been silenced because of his way of handling this issue, which was/is completely irresponsible.. not due to the issue at hand". I am glad you mention publicly that the transfer of knowledge in a parampara - like ours - should be free of monetary considerations. This has always been a contentious issue at SJVC, due to the other non-SJVC affiliations of some gurus. As you mentioned, I too was initially concerned about Robert's leadership, because of the stand taken by Robert on this important issue. But you asked for my patience and I waited. Finally, everybody was in the same boat. I am glad you portrayed things as they are and did not portray anybody as a monster (either Robert or Dina-natha). The fact is that both of them are fine human beings, who are destined to serve Jagannatha in their own ways, and better than most of the rest of us. Robert is a fine gentleman with a great spirit of service and utmost humility and dedication. Dina-natha is a fine young man with sharp intellect, great idealism and a lot of energy. Unless he has some hidden agenda, Dina-natha should be satisfied after reading what you wrote. Anyway, even if you are wrong, he should just follow your instructions. After all, he established this organization in USA for YOU! He should listen to you and make the changes that you want. I hope good sense prevails on him and he listens to you. In the western culture, it is not considered ethical to point out negative things in somebody's chart in public without permission. But I guess you are his guru and have that right. You talked about curses etc. On the positive side, Dina-natha has two gurus in lagna and 7th lord Sun in brahmalokamsa. This should make him extremely well-learned, respected and almost like a Sage. The right time has to come. The current Rahu dasa is not letting Sun flourish. To flourish, Sun needs Jupiter's help and not Rahu's obstruction. I have utmost confidence in him. Though his judgment may have been clouded at this point in time due to previous karma (you talked about curse and Moola dasa), making him earn a lot of badwill, he deserves only our compassion. Chanting of Jagannatha's name will remove the curse from him (Jupiter disposits Mercury). The day will come when he serves you sincerely and blindly again. He is destined to reach great heights in the long run. I request Dina-natha to read your mail again and recall why this organization was started in the first place. He will do well to leave its fate to your judgment and just follow your instructions even when he does not agree. I beg him to relent. It is in your interest, his interest and everybody else's. Many organizational changes will happen down the road and many people will come and go. Nobody will remember them after 100 years. Only the knowledge of the parampara will be remembered and celebrated. If Dina-natha concentrates on the knowledge, he will make great contributions and will be remembered. We all have a long path to walk together. You, Robert, Brendan, Dina-natha, me, Narayan, Visti etc gurus have a lot of good work to do and very little time for it. Let us focus our energies on knowledge - learning and teaching it - and leave the mundane matters to other volunteers like Lakshmi. Let us not throw obstacles in each other's path. We took a lot of births to be here. Let us use this lifetime well. Please, please, let there be PEACE. Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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