mahakali-sarvaniji

[Guest guest]

dear sarvaniji,

 

look, our discussion has got approval from sanjayji. it is realy great to get guidance from him.

 

your explanation of devi chhinnamasta is thought provoking. but if she depicts

union of kundalini power at sahasrar, that should be the ultimate. then why

this form comes in the middle of all the mahavidyas. also why blood? why the

devi's head is severed and held in her own hand? i remember to have read in the

book that the evaluation depicted by devi chhinnamasta is the lowest of all.

 

or the form depicts suffering of the soul due to ignorance, during it's journey

in search of bliss. i really wish that i could find out that book and read it

again.

 

can you tell some thing on the other forms of kali, such as shamsan kali, rakhsa

kali etc. what is the difference between those forms and the forms of

dakhinakali and vamakali?

 

regards,

 

 

-

Sarbani Sarkar

sjvc

Friday, April 26, 2002 10:44 PM

Re: [sjvc] Ista Devata Mantra -- To Visti

Dear Dasguptaji,Yes, I hope we are not stepping beyond the scope of sjvc

discussing allthis, but maybe our teachers will warn us when we cross the

limit. Whatcan I do, Mother is so addictive. She compels us to immerse in

her.Please don't get the misguided impression that I am well read on

thesematters. I am poor with the details of tantrism and its history. Whatdraws

me is the Brahmatattwa of tantra, Kali as Brahmasvarupini,Chidanandarupini. Who

is she? What is she? What is her mystery? It's notso much an intellectual quest

as a compelling pull towards an ocean inwhich I might drown. I don't know what

this magnetic attraction is, Idon't try to analyse it. My personal impressions

regarding thebamacharis are similar to yours. I have heard similar stories

about thebauls of Birbhum who also practice tantra. Swami Pragyanananda of

theRamakrishna Mission writes, that Ramakrishna undertook dakshinachartantra

sadhana by taking Bhairabi Brahmani as his guru. This is what Ihave also

heard/read from the Ramakrishna Mission circle. But you may beright about him

having taken a bamachari diksha too. One can alwayscheck it up from the

Kathamrta or I can enquire from the Sarada Math. Iagree with you that

eventually it does not matter whether it is bamacharor dakshinachar, it is only

a matter of degree, eventually the 'laksha'is the same. And rightly, very few

can do the bamachari methodcorrectly, as it is a most difficult sadhana. Both

use the 5 m's but themethod and application is different. The dakshinacharis

use it in a moresymbolic manner, hence making it easier. I never thought of

thedasamahavidya-shodasi connection till you pointed it out. I believe inJain

tantra there are 16 mahavidyas. Shodasi is one of thedasamahavidyas. Tara is

another. In fact, Buddhist tantrism worshipsTara and I have seen terrible forms

of Tara in a monastery in Paro,Bhutan and some graphic depiction of tantra

practice in the tankhas;Nepal, Bhutan and Tibet being strong holds of Buddhist

tantrism. Tara isalso known as Paramasiddhidayini. Chhinnamasta as you point

out is themost terrible of all the mahavidyas. It is said that one who

unravelsthe mystery of her murty or image will achieve moksha and be in a

realmbeyond life and death. Let me be brazen and try this: kundalini shaktias

kamakala, rises from the kundalini base up through the variouschakras till it

meets the sahasrar chakra where it is united with citrupi Shiv. This meeting or

union is the aim of tantra sadhana and is theultimate Bliss. The blood which

spills from Her neck is the kamakalashakti and the act of drinking it is the

union or meeting with Shiv insahasrar which signifies Eternal Bliss. The

kundalini has to flowthrough the centre nadi, sushumna, in order to attain

moksha. If itflows through the nadis on the left and right, ira and pingala,

then theperson will be unable to escape the cycles of death and re-birth.

Thetwo streams of blood spouting from the Chhinnamasta murty are beingdrunk by

two yoginis/women standing on either side of the devi. They areira and pingala.

Only the central spout of blood, which flows throughsushumna is being drunk by

the devi. This signifies the union of thekundalini with the sahasrar, rather

with Paramshiv who resides in thesahasrar. That is why Chhinnamasta is known as

Paragyansvarupini, andshe is the ultimate symbol of what we should be desiring.

Somethinglike this. I hope the learned in the list will come to one's rescue

andguide one through it. Or maybe our eyes will be opened when She willsit. I

would love to delve more into this evolution of the soul asdepicted in the

dasamahavidyas rahasya. One other point, dakshina Kaliis accessible to both

grihasthis and sannayasis while bama kali isaccessible to only sannayasis, and

basically there are several kinds ofKali, Dakhinakali, Bamakali, Smamshankali,

Rakshakali etc.Regards,Sarbani"j.k. dasgupta" wrote:> Part 1.1 Type:

Plain Text (text/plain)> Encoding: quoted-printableYour use of

is subject to the

[Guest guest]

Dear Dasguptaji,

 

I spend a long time with Kathamrta today and there is no doubt:

Ramakrishna abhorred the bamachari path. He said there were two ways of

reaching the house of Kali: via the shuddha path or via the dirty path.

'My path is that of matribhav and vatsalya bhav. These are shuddha

paths, and you can never go wrong with these. Streebhav and Veerbhav are

dirty (nongra) paths and one always tend to go awry if you follow them'.

In Benaras he had visited the tantriks at Bhairav Chakra who offered him

kaaran sudha but he refused them saying that he did not touch alcohol.

He was upset with the bhairavs and bhairavis who were present there. In

many places we find that he was deeply disturbed with the concept of

'sadhana with women', each time reiterating that he preferred matribhav.

With tantrtik bhaktas too he admonished the 'five m' path of sadhana

again and again. In an earlier post I had mentioned that Ramakrishna

took diksha in 64 tantras from Yogeshwari Brahmani in the dakshinachar

path. Specifically this was the samayachar, prevalent in Kerala who

adopted the Shreevidya or Shodasi sadhana. This method follows the Vedic

marg and is basically 'inwardly' centering their sadhana on the

sahasrar/chaitanya/paramshiv aspect. They considered rituals to be

unnecessary and 'outwardly'. Samayachar method is also mentioned in the

Saundaryalahari. Vivekananda too said in a lecture, 'give up this filthy

vamachar that is killing your country...(these) sects are honeycombing

our society in Bengal'. Of course throughout Ramakrishna emphasizes,

'Kali Brahma, Brahma Kali'. He also likens the union of Radha and

Krishna to the union of Kali and Mahakal under her feet. Both are unions

of Prakrti and Purusha. He gives one interpretation of the colour of

Kali, which is rather charming and I thought I would share it with you:

Kali is dark because she is far away, when you go near you will see that

she is colourless. Like the water of the pond appears black when seen

from afar, and when you go close and scoop the water in your palms, you

will find that the water is colourless. About the nine Kalis:

Assam-Bengal-Orissa tantriks or the gourbangiya tantrik sampradayas see

Kalika in nine rups: Dakshinakali, Mahakali, Shamshankali, Guhyakali,

Bhadrakali, Chamundakali, Siddhakali, Hamsakali and Kamkalakali. Some

descriptions:

Mahakali: She is nirakar, nirguna, before creation, when everything was

nothingness, a dark void, she existed as one with Mahakal.

Dakshinakali: Gentle, kalyani, right foot extended, protects everything,

suitable for grihis.

Bamakali: the opposite of the above, left foot extended, destroys

everything, suitable for sannyasis.

Siddhakali: another variation of dakshinakali.

Rakshakali: To be worshipped when there are natural calamities like

earthquakes, floods, epidemic, droughts.

Shamshankali: Terrible, sanhar murty, 'bhayankari', assister of Shiv in

pralay, tamoguni yet destroyer of tamogun, companion of Rudra, lives in

the shamshan with dead bodies, jackals, dakinis and yoginis, the body is

drenched with blood, cut human hands and heads adorn her waist and neck.

 

Bhadrakali: together with Shiv.

Kashmiri tantriks do 13/12 differentiation which include Rudrakali,

Raktakali, Shrishtikali, Sanharkali, Sthitikali, Martandakali,

Ghorchandakali, Kalagnirudrakali, Martandakali, Mahakalkali, Yamkali,

Mrityukali, Parasarkkali...etc., etc.

 

Sarbani

 

"j.k. dasgupta" wrote:

 

> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)

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Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

Sarvaniji,

 

namaste. thanks for the description of various forms of mahakali.

 

During my childhood once I visited Jiagaunge in west bengal. On the other side

of the ganges there was a garden house (most probably belonged to maharaja of

kashimbazar). There we were shown a bedi which was supposed to be the

panchamundi asana of ramakrishnadeva. The caretaker told that he performed

savasadhana there. later i read in one article about his siddhi in bamachar

sadhana. i do not know the truth.

 

but surely the so called tantric sadhakas of east has used this method to

fullfill their own lust. so no wonder that common man has been always adviced

to decry this path. I came very close to one siddha grihi tantric in calcutta.

He is no more but i saw his power. He also used to tell this and gave very

different meaning of 5 `m's than those meant literally and practiced by so

called tantrics. he used to tell that grahasta marga is the greatest tantra and

with proper guidance is the easiest way to achieve mokhsa in this kalikala. i

wrote in my earlier mail that there are lot of misconception about this path.

this is unfortunately the creation of the so called self willed tantrics-who

used this to fullfill their own lust and made this sadhana nothing but

practicing black magics.

 

there is a bengali book "tantrabhilashi'r sadhusanga" written by promodranjan

chakravorty. there are 3 volumes and the authur gave many very vivid account of

his personal experiences and the tantric phylosophy after meeting many tantric

sadhakas through out india. very intersting book and you shall like to read it.

 

 

in fact, any practical application of any theory is `tantra'. if somebody tries

to practice practical chemistry in a laboratory without proper guidance - no

doubt he may burn himself. i look at the subject like that. i am also convinced

that the phylosophy of devi cult tantra puts us face to face with the very truth

- which is very fearsome as well as intollerable for common man like us.

 

regards,

 

dasgupta

-

Sarbani Sarkar

sjvc

Sunday, April 28, 2002 10:35 PM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

Dear Dasguptaji,I spend a long time with Kathamrta today and there is no

doubt:Ramakrishna abhorred the bamachari path. He said there were two ways

ofreaching the house of Kali: via the shuddha path or via the dirty path.'My

path is that of matribhav and vatsalya bhav. These are shuddhapaths, and you

can never go wrong with these. Streebhav and Veerbhav aredirty (nongra) paths

and one always tend to go awry if you follow them'.In Benaras he had visited

the tantriks at Bhairav Chakra who offered himkaaran sudha but he refused them

saying that he did not touch alcohol.He was upset with the bhairavs and

bhairavis who were present there. Inmany places we find that he was deeply

disturbed with the concept of'sadhana with women', each time reiterating that

he preferred matribhav.With tantrtik bhaktas too he admonished the 'five m'

path of sadhanaagain and again. In an earlier post I had mentioned that

Ramakrishnatook diksha in 64 tantras from Yogeshwari Brahmani in the

dakshinacharpath. Specifically this was the samayachar, prevalent in Kerala

whoadopted the Shreevidya or Shodasi sadhana. This method follows the Vedicmarg

and is basically 'inwardly' centering their sadhana on

thesahasrar/chaitanya/paramshiv aspect. They considered rituals to

beunnecessary and 'outwardly'. Samayachar method is also mentioned in

theSaundaryalahari. Vivekananda too said in a lecture, 'give up this

filthyvamachar that is killing your country...(these) sects are honeycombingour

society in Bengal'. Of course throughout Ramakrishna emphasizes,'Kali Brahma,

Brahma Kali'. He also likens the union of Radha andKrishna to the union of Kali

and Mahakal under her feet. Both are unionsof Prakrti and Purusha. He gives one

interpretation of the colour ofKali, which is rather charming and I thought I

would share it with you:Kali is dark because she is far away, when you go near

you will see thatshe is colourless. Like the water of the pond appears black

when seenfrom afar, and when you go close and scoop the water in your palms,

youwill find that the water is colourless. About the nine

Kalis:Assam-Bengal-Orissa tantriks or the gourbangiya tantrik sampradayas

seeKalika in nine rups: Dakshinakali, Mahakali, Shamshankali,

Guhyakali,Bhadrakali, Chamundakali, Siddhakali, Hamsakali and Kamkalakali.

Somedescriptions:Mahakali: She is nirakar, nirguna, before creation, when

everything wasnothingness, a dark void, she existed as one with

Mahakal.Dakshinakali: Gentle, kalyani, right foot extended, protects

everything,suitable for grihis.Bamakali: the opposite of the above, left foot

extended, destroyseverything, suitable for sannyasis.Siddhakali: another

variation of dakshinakali.Rakshakali: To be worshipped when there are natural

calamities likeearthquakes, floods, epidemic, droughts.Shamshankali: Terrible,

sanhar murty, 'bhayankari', assister of Shiv inpralay, tamoguni yet destroyer

of tamogun, companion of Rudra, lives inthe shamshan with dead bodies, jackals,

dakinis and yoginis, the body isdrenched with blood, cut human hands and heads

adorn her waist and neck.Bhadrakali: together with Shiv.Kashmiri tantriks do

13/12 differentiation which include Rudrakali,Raktakali, Shrishtikali,

Sanharkali, Sthitikali, Martandakali,Ghorchandakali, Kalagnirudrakali,

Martandakali, Mahakalkali, Yamkali,Mrityukali, Parasarkkali...etc.,

etc.Sarbani"j.k. dasgupta" wrote:> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text

(text/plain)> Encoding: quoted-printableYour use of is

subject to the

[Guest guest]

Dear Dasguptaji,

 

Thank you for the book reference. I will surely purchase it when I visit

Calcutta next. Two other Bengali references for you:

Tantratattwapraveshika and Tantre Tattwa o Sadhana, both by Swami

Pragyanananda of Ramakrishna Mission. In English, you have more academic

works by John Woodroffe, David Kingsley, Thomas Coburn, Madeline

Biardeau, Tracy Pintchman etc. The first three are celebrated names.

Because of you, I am now going to read the Kalika purana seriously! And

yes, I beleive tantra is applied vedanta!

 

Sarbani

 

Sarbani

 

"j.k. dasgupta" wrote:

 

> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)

> Encoding: quoted-printable

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

sarvaniji,

 

thanks for the books references. i shall search in ramakrishna mission here. can

you please tell me where shall i get kalika purana? actually we must read the

explanations also for all these scriptures - for proper understanding.

 

the books i refered are now rare. recently they were all out of print after the

death of the authur. however you must get it at college street - the store

house for golden old books.

 

dasgupta

-

Sarbani Sarkar

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 4:59 PM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

Dear Dasguptaji,Thank you for the book reference. I will surely purchase it when

I visitCalcutta next. Two other Bengali references for

you:Tantratattwapraveshika and Tantre Tattwa o Sadhana, both by

SwamiPragyanananda of Ramakrishna Mission. In English, you have more

academicworks by John Woodroffe, David Kingsley, Thomas Coburn,

MadelineBiardeau, Tracy Pintchman etc. The first three are celebrated

names.Because of you, I am now going to read the Kalika purana seriously!

Andyes, I beleive tantra is applied vedanta!SarbaniSarbani"j.k. dasgupta"

wrote:> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)> Encoding:

quoted-printable Terms of

Service.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dasguptaji,

 

In Delhi, we have a gem house by the name of Motilal Banarasidass. It is

perhaps one of the finest stores on Indology, and very scholarly too.

They almost never keep 'pop' or 'junk' books. I have checked with their

catalogue on the web site but will pay a visit to them sometime this

week. They can order books for you too. Chowkhamba of Benaras is another

good publisher. I will check with them as well. I think you can order

books online from Motilal. Check at http://www.mlbd.com and download

their new catalogue. Conversely, just write to them. They are very

helpful and informed.

 

Sarbani

 

"j.k. dasgupta" wrote:

 

> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)

> Encoding: quoted-printable

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

dear doc.,

 

thanks for the information. do they have any website-where online order can be placed?

 

regards

 

dasgupta

-

Dr.D.Banerjee

sjvc

Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:39 AM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

Hare Rama Krishna

---------------------

Namaste Dasgupta da

 

I could not resist the temptation to jump into your discussion with Sarbaniji.

 

A very good translation of 'Kalika Puranam' into Bengali, was done many decades

ago by the famous Pandit Panchanan Tarkaratna, the father of Srijib

Nyayatirtha. It is now available with 'Naba Bharat Publishers', 72, Mahatma

Gandhi Road , Kolkata-700073.

 

You may contact Naba Bharat publishers. They send books by post.

 

Sarbaniji and Dasgupta da, if you need any information about books available at

Kolkata,please inform me at my e-mail address, drdilip (AT) sancharnet (DOT) in

I shall definitely try my best to inform you about the availability and other

particulars of those books.

 

With warm regards

Dilip Banerjee.

 

 

-

j.k. dasgupta

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 5:28 AM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

sarvaniji,

 

thanks for the books references. i shall search in ramakrishna mission here. can

you please tell me where shall i get kalika purana? actually we must read the

explanations also for all these scriptures - for proper understanding.

 

the books i refered are now rare. recently they were all out of print after the

death of the authur. however you must get it at college street - the store

house for golden old books.

 

dasgupta

-

Sarbani Sarkar

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 4:59 PM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

Dear Dasguptaji,Thank you for the book reference. I will surely purchase it when

I visitCalcutta next. Two other Bengali references for

you:Tantratattwapraveshika and Tantre Tattwa o Sadhana, both by

SwamiPragyanananda of Ramakrishna Mission. In English, you have more

academicworks by John Woodroffe, David Kingsley, Thomas Coburn,

MadelineBiardeau, Tracy Pintchman etc. The first three are celebrated

names.Because of you, I am now going to read the Kalika purana seriously!

Andyes, I beleive tantra is applied vedanta!SarbaniSarbani"j.k. dasgupta"

wrote:> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)> Encoding:

quoted-printable Terms of

Service.

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

---------------------

Namaste Dasgupta da

 

I could not resist the temptation to jump into your discussion with Sarbaniji.

 

A very good translation of 'Kalika Puranam' into Bengali, was done many decades

ago by the famous Pandit Panchanan Tarkaratna, the father of Srijib

Nyayatirtha. It is now available with 'Naba Bharat Publishers', 72, Mahatma

Gandhi Road , Kolkata-700073.

 

You may contact Naba Bharat publishers. They send books by post.

 

Sarbaniji and Dasgupta da, if you need any information about books available at

Kolkata,please inform me at my e-mail address, drdilip (AT) sancharnet (DOT) in

I shall definitely try my best to inform you about the availability and other

particulars of those books.

 

With warm regards

Dilip Banerjee.

 

 

-

j.k. dasgupta

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 5:28 AM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

sarvaniji,

 

thanks for the books references. i shall search in ramakrishna mission here. can

you please tell me where shall i get kalika purana? actually we must read the

explanations also for all these scriptures - for proper understanding.

 

the books i refered are now rare. recently they were all out of print after the

death of the authur. however you must get it at college street - the store

house for golden old books.

 

dasgupta

-

Sarbani Sarkar

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 4:59 PM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

Dear Dasguptaji,Thank you for the book reference. I will surely purchase it when

I visitCalcutta next. Two other Bengali references for

you:Tantratattwapraveshika and Tantre Tattwa o Sadhana, both by

SwamiPragyanananda of Ramakrishna Mission. In English, you have more

academicworks by John Woodroffe, David Kingsley, Thomas Coburn,

MadelineBiardeau, Tracy Pintchman etc. The first three are celebrated

names.Because of you, I am now going to read the Kalika purana seriously!

Andyes, I beleive tantra is applied vedanta!SarbaniSarbani"j.k. dasgupta"

wrote:> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)> Encoding:

quoted-printable Terms of

Service.

[Guest guest]

HARE RAMA KRISHNA

--------------------------

Pranam Dasgupta da

 

No, they do not have any website..

 

With Regards

Dilip.

-

j.k. dasgupta

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 10:39 PM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

dear doc.,

 

thanks for the information. do they have any website-where online order can be placed?

 

regards

 

dasgupta

-

Dr.D.Banerjee

sjvc

Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:39 AM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

Hare Rama Krishna

---------------------

Namaste Dasgupta da

 

I could not resist the temptation to jump into your discussion with Sarbaniji.

 

A very good translation of 'Kalika Puranam' into Bengali, was done many decades

ago by the famous Pandit Panchanan Tarkaratna, the father of Srijib

Nyayatirtha. It is now available with 'Naba Bharat Publishers', 72, Mahatma

Gandhi Road , Kolkata-700073.

 

You may contact Naba Bharat publishers. They send books by post.

 

Sarbaniji and Dasgupta da, if you need any information about books available at

Kolkata,please inform me at my e-mail address, drdilip (AT) sancharnet (DOT) in

I shall definitely try my best to inform you about the availability and other

particulars of those books.

 

With warm regards

Dilip Banerjee.

 

 

-

j.k. dasgupta

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 5:28 AM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

sarvaniji,

 

thanks for the books references. i shall search in ramakrishna mission here. can

you please tell me where shall i get kalika purana? actually we must read the

explanations also for all these scriptures - for proper understanding.

 

the books i refered are now rare. recently they were all out of print after the

death of the authur. however you must get it at college street - the store

house for golden old books.

 

dasgupta

-

Sarbani Sarkar

sjvc

Monday, April 29, 2002 4:59 PM

Re: [sjvc] mahakali-sarvaniji

Dear Dasguptaji,Thank you for the book reference. I will surely purchase it when

I visitCalcutta next. Two other Bengali references for

you:Tantratattwapraveshika and Tantre Tattwa o Sadhana, both by

SwamiPragyanananda of Ramakrishna Mission. In English, you have more

academicworks by John Woodroffe, David Kingsley, Thomas Coburn,

MadelineBiardeau, Tracy Pintchman etc. The first three are celebrated

names.Because of you, I am now going to read the Kalika purana seriously!

Andyes, I beleive tantra is applied vedanta!SarbaniSarbani"j.k. dasgupta"

wrote:> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)> Encoding:

quoted-printable Terms of

Service.

Your use

of is subject to the