Query reg. Memory

[Guest guest]

Namaste Visti

Shailesh: > >Can you tell me what are the significators for:> > > Memory> > >

Forgetfulness

>Visti wrote > Jupiter is the significator for memory. When a person has Jupiter

in Simhasanamsa, they will remember their past 3 lives, acording to scriptures.>

> The enemies of Jupiter will form the intelligence, in this way. I.e. Saturn

will give forgetfullness, and Rahu will blind one from the

truth(guru-chandala).> > Similarly judge 5th house and lord as if it were

Jupiter, and see the influences.>

With reference to our on going discussion on Memory etc. , I would like to quote

the following lines from page 224 of "300 important combinations" of venerable

Dr. Raman. The following Yoga goes under the name of "Thrikaala-gyana yoga".

"Definition: Jupiter should occupy Mrudwamsa in his own navamsa, or Gopuramsa

and be aspected by a benefic planet.

Result: The native becomes capable of reading the past, present and future."

So it goes without debate, Jupiter in great dignity, with his three eyes and

360-degree vision, can confer on the individual the power to divine events in

bhootha, bhavishyat and varthamaana. That's why Jupiter represents the 5th

house, which simultaneouly governs Poorva punya (past), intelligence (present)

and progeny(future). In the fourth upward dimension (intuition/wisdom), Jupiter

represents Isana, the essential aakasa tattwa..He's all...Isana sarwa vidyaanaam

Iswara sarva bhoothaanaam..

But memory, Visti? Memory is only of the past. It's never of the future. And

isn't there a difference between gyaana (knowledge or awareness), which is

impersonal and timeless and "smriti" or memory, which is mostly subjective,

indexed on "I" and "my". While Jupiter might certainly give "awareness" of the

past births as part of KNOWLEDGE, he represents mostly the summated wisdom

(Punya)of the past births that's carried forward to the future births of the

native, and not event based memories.

Now, contrast this with Venus, who's one eyed and has only a "flat"vision. It

also indicates single minded passion for reaching the target, without delving

into complexities of any matter. Sukra's area is mostly concerned with the

"present" and retaining the "present". Hence the mrityunjaya mantra. But, isn't

it Jupiter, Visti, in Vamana avatar, who had given Sukracharya his one-eyed

status and greater focus? Jupiter found that Sukra was unable to "concentrate"

with two eyes and the second truant eye is making the "Asura guru" stray to

untruth and masquerade, so he punctured it. But true to the nature of Guru as

the greatest benefic, even while punishing Sukra, he blessed his rival with

unprecedented focus. That's why even Guru's harsh words are meant to teach, to

reform and to elevate and should be humbly accepted as such.

Saturn on the other hand, has downward glance ("adhodrishte namastestu" -Sani

stotram). He's concerned with the the past because he's to apportion the

karmaphala, which is very personal and event/action based. He's ponderous

(Manda), bogged down in the past and saddled with archived memories of

innumerable past mistakes that made rebirth inevitable. He is forever sternly

watching the step (discipline) and wielding the stick where necessary, and in

dignity can give good memory, incinerate the "I"(detachment) and thus grant

freedom from all memories ( moksha).

Visti, think of it like this. Jupiter is an expansive planet, a saattwik planet

and so has tremendous elasticity ("anima & garima"-the ability to become small

or grow big- are part of ashta siddhis. Refer Vamana avatar, where a Tiny Tot

had grown beyond the Universe to restore Dharma). Jupiter is a Guru and as

Gurudeva Sanjayji had said "the best teacher is the one who learns all the

time", so unlearning or making room for more learning is as much part of his

characteristic as learning is (Jupiter is "Jiva"- hence the characteristic of

inhaling and exhaling). He can not drag the dead weight of detailed memories

around and learn at the same time. So he lets go. He accesses memories,

understands them, capsules their essence into wisdom/knowledge, zips them up

and archives them in Saturn. That's because he needs free RAM to process &

crystallize the current learning into knowledge. He is huge, so he needs lots

of space to manoeuvre.

Visti, I know my thoughts will have many loopholes. Let me know the count.

Regards,Lakshmi

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[Guest guest]

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

------------------

Dear Lakshmi,

 

With reference to our on going discussion on Memory etc. , I would like to quote

the following lines from page 224 of "300 important combinations" of venerable

Dr. Raman. The following Yoga goes under the name of "Thrikaala-gyana yoga".

"Definition: Jupiter should occupy Mrudwamsa in his own navamsa, or Gopuramsa

and be aspected by a benefic planet.

Result: The native becomes capable of reading the past, present and future."

 

Visti: A strong Jupiter does this anyday. If Jupiter is strong in Shastyamsa

as well, then the person sees their past life!!

 

So it goes without debate, Jupiter in great dignity, with his three eyes and

360-degree vision, can confer on the individual the power to divine events in

bhootha, bhavishyat and varthamaana. That's why Jupiter represents the 5th

house, which simultaneouly governs Poorva punya (past), intelligence (present)

and progeny(future). In the fourth upward dimension (intuition/wisdom), Jupiter

represents Isana, the essential aakasa tattwa..He's all...Isana sarwa vidyaanaam

Iswara sarva bhoothaanaam..

But memory, Visti? Memory is only of the past. It's never of the future.

 

Visti: If Jupiter can see the past then surely he can see the future. The

higher the awareness, the more of the future begins to reveal itself. Isn't

this the concept of being an astrologer? When we rise in awareness, we realise

the supreme lord who is unbound by time, and where the past, present and future

is all the same.

 

And isn't there a difference between gyaana (knowledge or awareness), which is

impersonal and timeless and "smriti" or memory, which is mostly subjective,

indexed on "I" and "my". While Jupiter might certainly give "awareness" of the

past births as part of KNOWLEDGE, he represents mostly the summated wisdom

(Punya)of the past births that's carried forward to the future births of the

native, and not event based memories.

 

Visti: What makes you think that its only the summated vision thats revealed?

Jupiter gives all blessings of past birth, but not all at once, but spread out

in the proportions of the good we did in the past. 1 great good is equal to 1

great blessing. Many are equal to many. And then theres the result of all this

good on the inherited personality.

 

Now, contrast this with Venus, who's one eyed and has only a "flat"vision. It

also indicates single minded passion for reaching the target, without delving

into complexities of any matter. Sukra's area is mostly concerned with the

"present" and retaining the "present". Hence the mrityunjaya mantra. But, isn't

it Jupiter, Visti, in Vamana avatar, who had given Sukracharya his one-eyed

status and greater focus? Jupiter found that Sukra was unable to "concentrate"

with two eyes and the second truant eye is making the "Asura guru" stray to

untruth and masquerade, so he punctured it. But true to the nature of Guru as

the greatest benefic, even while punishing Sukra, he blessed his rival with

unprecedented focus. That's why even Guru's harsh words are meant to teach, to

reform and to elevate and should be humbly accepted as such.

Saturn on the other hand, has downward glance ("adhodrishte namastestu" -Sani

stotram). He's concerned with the the past because he's to apportion the

karmaphala, which is very personal and event/action based. He's ponderous

(Manda), bogged down in the past and saddled with archived memories of

innumerable past mistakes that made rebirth inevitable. He is forever sternly

watching the step (discipline) and wielding the stick where necessary, and in

dignity can give good memory, incinerate the "I"(detachment) and thus grant

freedom from all memories ( moksha).

 

Visti: The house of memory and intelligence is 5th house. No doubt about

that. Jupiter is the significator of this bhava as well as 9th. Saturn is

however significator of all the distress causing houses. How can one truly

evolve in awareness with Saturns blessings, unless it makes one a disciplined,

scared fool? Saturn spends his time sorrowing so much of the past, that he

troubles the present(Lagna is Marana Avastha), and hence ruins longevity. This

isn't the concept of memory, unless you always look back at your life with

great

unhappiness. Some do but they learn, and become happy.. hence memory becomes the

greatest blessing after all.

 

Visti, think of it like this. Jupiter is an expansive planet, a saattwik planet

and so has tremendous elasticity ("anima & garima"-the ability to become small

or grow big- are part of ashta siddhis. Refer Vamana avatar, where a Tiny Tot

had grown beyond the Universe to restore Dharma). Jupiter is a Guru and as

Gurudeva Sanjayji had said "the best teacher is the one who learns all the

time", so unlearning or making room for more learning is as much part of his

characteristic as learning is (Jupiter is "Jiva"- hence the characteristic of

inhaling and exhaling).

He can not drag the dead weight of detailed memories around and learn at the

same time. So he lets go.

 

Visti: ??? Guru is your greatest blessing. He will remove all ailments

through knowledge. Jupiter never lets go of the past, because its through

knowing everything that he becomes the greatest blessing and greatest guide!.

The weight becomes lighter, the sickness feels as if disapeared, and its as if

there never existed sorrow! This is what your guru can do for you. And hence

recite the Mantra; Om Gurave Namah, and your guru will give you ALL that!

Worship Guru and he will give u the greatest happiness(exalted in cancer/4th).

And only through true happiness can we achieve moksha, as 4th is Moksha

Trikona!!!! And so say with me; OM GURAVE NAMAH!!!

 

He accesses memories, understands them, capsules their essence into

wisdom/knowledge, zips them up and archives them in Saturn. That's because he

needs free RAM to process & crystallize the current learning into knowledge. He

is huge, so he needs lots of space to manoeuvre.

 

Visti: Jupiter will never hurt you.. nor will he trample ontop of you if ur

in the way, because thats not his interest. Remember, Jupiter simply isn't a

malefic.. rather the GREATEST BENEFIC!

 

Visti, I know my thoughts will have many loopholes. Let me know the count.

 

Visti: 5.

 

Regards,Lakshmi

 

Jai Jai Gurudev!

Best wishes, Visti.

[Guest guest]

Dear Visti,

Thanks for coming up with the count "5", that's a good number. Visti: A

strong Jupiter does this anyday. If Jupiter is strong in Shastyamsa as well,

then the person sees their past life!! Visti: If Jupiter can see the past

then surely he can see the future. The higher the awareness, the more of the

future begins to reveal itself. Isn't this the concept of being an astrologer?

When we rise in awareness, we realise the supreme lord who is unbound by time,

and where the past, present and future is all the same.

Lakshmi: I think we are saying the same thing here. So, no further discussion.

Visti: What makes you think that its only the summated vision thats

revealed? Jupiter gives all blessings of past birth, but not all at once, but

spread out in the proportions of the good we did in the past. 1 great good is

equal to 1 great blessing. Many are equal to many. And then theres the result

of all this good on the inherited personality.

Lakshmi: Well, I think the word "wisdom" implies only the net result and not

the process itself. Visti, can more water be poured into a full glass? The

glass should always be partially empty, then only whatever one continues to

receive will stay. Jupiter receives as well as gives....infact he gives away

more than what he receives..that's where his selflessness and beneficence come

through...and that's how he manages the space. By letting go.

Incidentally, I think the injunction for reaching moksha is also the same.

Travel light. Carry only the essentials with you. Concentrate on core

competences. Jettison what's not necessary, what's superfluous.

Visti: The house of memory and intelligence is 5th house. No doubt about

that. Jupiter is the significator of this bhava as well as 9th. Saturn is

however significator of all the distress causing houses. How can one truly

evolve in awareness with Saturns blessings, unless it makes one a disciplined,

scared fool? Saturn spends his time sorrowing so much of the past, that he

troubles the present(Lagna is Marana Avastha), and hence ruins longevity. This

isn't the concept of memory, unless you always look back at your life with

great unhappiness. Some do but they learn, and become happy.. hence memory

becomes the greatest blessing after all.

Worship Guru and he will give u the greatest happiness(exalted in cancer/4th).

And only through true happiness can we achieve moksha, as 4th is Moksha

Trikona!!!! Lakshmi: Precisely, Visti, thanks for strengthening my argument.

Jupiter as the greatest benefic is the happiest when the native is happy, i.e.,

the 4th house. Now, Saturn also exalts in the house of Venus, another karaka for

comforts & 4th house! Don't Moon and Venus both get digbala in the 4th house?

And, as you very righly said Jupiter's the natural significator for 5th & 9th

houses, which are the 2nd and 6th houses respectively from the 4th house.

That's the marakasthana and satrusthana of 4th house. Now, who is the natural

maraka and natural shatru, if not Saturn? And, isn't Saturn as much a

significator of 12th house (moksha sthana) as Jupiter is? And, yes, Saturn's

marana karana sthana is Lagna, because he's forever trying to wean away the

native from the cycle of rebirth and is thoroughly unhappy because the native

is caught again. He is all for liquidation of "I". Now, isn't that an admirable

intent and do you see the alignment of purposes of both the Gurus? Let's not

forget the fact that Saturn ® as AK is as much responsible as Jupiter in

lagna for making of a magnificent Guru. Om Gurave Namah.

Secondly, Visti, happiness is not absence of sadness. It's getting over sadness

& a conscious cultivation of the state of HAPPINESS and both are VERY different.

And, isn't "Dharma" itself a gruelling discipline and adhering to Dharma a very

tough job? Yet, that adherence produced cowards or men of great courage &

sterling character????

Visti: ??? Guru is your greatest blessing. He will remove all ailments

through knowledge. Jupiter never lets go of the past, because its through

knowing everything that he becomes the greatest blessing and greatest guide!.

Lakshmi: Jupiter always remembers the lesson, but not necessarily the entire

flashback. Letting go is a very necessary lesson in life, Visti, and as always,

Jupiter teaches it the best. Saturn also teaches the same thing but in a

diametrically different fashion.

Visti: The weight becomes lighter, the sickness feels as if disapeared, and its

as if there never existed sorrow! This is what your guru can do for you. And

hence recite the Mantra; Om Gurave Namah, and your guru will give you ALL that!

And so say with me; OM GURAVE NAMAH!!! Lakshmi: With pleasure, Visti, OM GURAVE

NAMAH. Regards,Lakshmi

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[Guest guest]

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

------------------------

Dear Lakshmi,

 

Lakshmi: Now, Saturn also exalts in the house of Venus, another karaka for

comforts & 4th house!

Don't Moon and Venus both get digbala in the 4th house?

 

Visti: Well if we take your terminology; Moon exalts in Taurus and Venus is

karaka of 7th house. I dont understand this terminology.

 

 

And, as you very righly said Jupiter's the natural significator for 5th & 9th

houses, which are the 2nd and 6th houses respectively from the 4th house.

That's the marakasthana and satrusthana of 4th house. Now, who is the natural

maraka and natural shatru, if not Saturn? And, isn't Saturn as much a

significator of 12th house (moksha sthana) as Jupiter is?

 

Visti: nononono!!! Jupiter is not the significator for Moksha nor is Saturn.

Jupiter will give happiness which will make it easier to get moksha, but in far

the most cases these stray the person far away from it. Similarly Saturn can

give renunciation which can lead to moksha. But none are actually Moksha giving

planets. Only Ketu can give that through finally cutting the ropes of bondage.

 

Saturn as significator of 12th house, is significator of LOSS. Not loss of self

as we can attain through meditation, but loss of such material things such as

money, friends, family, etc.

 

And, yes, Saturn's marana karana sthana is Lagna, because he's forever trying to

wean away the native from the cycle of rebirth and is thoroughly unhappy because

the native is caught again. He is all for liquidation of "I".

 

Visti: Allready answered. Not loss of self.. thats ketu(detachment), and the

term; "Loss of self" is a misconception, in this regard.

 

Now, isn't that an admirable intent and do you see the alignment of purposes of

both the Gurus? Let's not forget the fact that Saturn ® as AK is as much

responsible as Jupiter in lagna for making of a magnificent Guru. Om Gurave

Namah.

 

Visti: Gurudevas Atmakaraka being Saturn and retrogade, doesn't make him a

Great Guru. It shows a desire from past birth, which cannot be removed, and

which he even, allthou highly educated and able to recieve great prosperity in

different professions, could not stray away from!

 

This Graha placed in 11th, i.e. 4th from 8th house, shows that this desire is

regarding such topics as Astrology, Yoga, etc. The strength of Jupiter being in

Simhasanamsa in Lagna makes him a great Guru! And not to exclude the placement

of planets in 5th house which gives good ability in such things as astrology.

 

Secondly, Visti, happiness is not absence of sadness.

 

Visti: This doesn't sound right to me. When i'm free from disease i'm healthy.

 

Lakshmi: Jupiter always remembers the lesson, but not necessarily the entire

flashback. Letting go is a very necessary lesson in life, Visti, and as always,

Jupiter teaches it the best. Saturn also teaches the same thing but in a

diametrically different fashion.

 

Visti: Well somethings i don't remember either. All the grahas are teachers

in some mannor

 

Visti: The weight becomes lighter, the sickness feels as if disapeared, and its

as if there never existed sorrow! This is what your guru can do for you. And

hence recite the Mantra; Om Gurave Namah, and your guru will give you ALL that!

And so say with me; OM GURAVE NAMAH!!! Lakshmi: With pleasure, Visti, OM GURAVE

NAMAH. Regards,Lakshmi

Best wishes, Visti.

[Guest guest]

Dear Visti,

I think you understand very well what I meant to say about Saturn & Venus.

And, for me Jupiter & Saturn both lead to Ketu & moksha, because Jupiter is in

Ketu's constellation and Ketu is in Jupiter's constellation. Ketu is in

Saturn's house and is aspected by Saturn (who is in Jupiter's house with

Jupiter) . So for me all the three planets are inextricably interlinked and

mean Moksha.

Visti, I have said all that I want to say about this topic at present and it's

time to let go and move on. I am twice your age, Visti, so perhaps I am more

poignantly aware of time blurring by and each minute being lost.... Perhaps

when we both have or rather I have (if you prefer it) something more to say, at

a later date, that'll result in real value addition, we'll get back to this.

Well, about Gurudev's AK, ask him if Saturn's contribution is not major in his

evolution? Would he have got his depth, his empathy, his understanding, his

missionary zeal, unwavering commitment, and even his sense of humour if not for

his AK and the pain he gives? Ask Him.

Regards,

Lakshmi

Till then, ciao

 

 

Visti Larsen <vlarsen (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

------------------------

Dear Lakshmi,

 

Lakshmi: Now, Saturn also exalts in the house of Venus, another karaka for

comforts & 4th house!

Don't Moon and Venus both get digbala in the 4th house?

 

Visti: Well if we take your terminology; Moon exalts in Taurus and Venus is

karaka of 7th house. I dont understand this terminology.

 

 

And, as you very righly said Jupiter's the natural significator for 5th & 9th

houses, which are the 2nd and 6th houses respectively from the 4th house.

That's the marakasthana and satrusthana of 4th house. Now, who is the natural

maraka and natural shatru, if not Saturn? And, isn't Saturn as much a

significator of 12th house (moksha sthana) as Jupiter is?

 

Visti: nononono!!! Jupiter is not the significator for Moksha nor is Saturn.

Jupiter will give happiness which will make it easier to get moksha, but in far

the most cases these stray the person far away from it. Similarly Saturn can

give renunciation which can lead to moksha. But none are actually Moksha giving

planets. Only Ketu can give that through finally cutting the ropes of bondage.

 

Saturn as significator of 12th house, is significator of LOSS. Not loss of self

as we can attain through meditation, but loss of such material things such as

money, friends, family, etc.

 

And, yes, Saturn's marana karana sthana is Lagna, because he's forever trying to

wean away the native from the cycle of rebirth and is thoroughly unhappy because

the native is caught again. He is all for liquidation of "I".

 

Visti: Allready answered. Not loss of self.. thats ketu(detachment), and the

term; "Loss of self" is a misconception, in this regard.

 

Now, isn't that an admirable intent and do you see the alignment of purposes of

both the Gurus? Let's not forget the fact that Saturn ® as AK is as much

responsible as Jupiter in lagna for making of a magnificent Guru. Om Gurave

Namah.

 

Visti: Gurudevas Atmakaraka being Saturn and retrogade, doesn't make him a

Great Guru. It shows a desire from past birth, which cannot be removed, and

which he even, allthou highly educated and able to recieve great prosperity in

different professions, could not stray away from!

 

This Graha placed in 11th, i.e. 4th from 8th house, shows that this desire is

regarding such topics as Astrology, Yoga, etc. The strength of Jupiter being in

Simhasanamsa in Lagna makes him a great Guru! And not to exclude the placement

of planets in 5th house which gives good ability in such things as astrology.

 

Secondly, Visti, happiness is not absence of sadness.

 

Visti: This doesn't sound right to me. When i'm free from disease i'm healthy.

 

Lakshmi: Jupiter always remembers the lesson, but not necessarily the entire

flashback. Letting go is a very necessary lesson in life, Visti, and as always,

Jupiter teaches it the best. Saturn also teaches the same thing but in a

diametrically different fashion.

 

Visti: Well somethings i don't remember either. All the grahas are teachers

in some mannor

 

Visti: The weight becomes lighter, the sickness feels as if disapeared, and its

as if there never existed sorrow! This is what your guru can do for you. And

hence recite the Mantra; Om Gurave Namah, and your guru will give you ALL that!

And so say with me; OM GURAVE NAMAH!!! Lakshmi: With pleasure, Visti, OM GURAVE

NAMAH. Regards,Lakshmi

Best wishes, Visti. Terms of

Service.

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[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

---------------------

Dear Lakshmi,

You are asking for detailed points but are giving wholistic answers.

Gurudeva has often told us of his pains, but say Venus had the upper hand instead of Jupiter?

 

For now lets rest. But i have more to say.

Best wishes, Visti.

-

lakshmi ramesh

sjvc

Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:25 AM

Re: [sjvc] Re: Query reg. Memory

Om Gurave Namah Dear Visti, I think you understand very well what I meant to say

about Saturn & Venus. And, for me Jupiter & Saturn both lead to Ketu & moksha,

because Jupiter is in Ketu's constellation and Ketu is in Jupiter's

constellation. Ketu is in Saturn's house and is aspected by Saturn (who is in

Jupiter's house with Jupiter) . So for me all the three planets are

inextricably interlinked and mean Moksha. Visti, I have said all that I want to

say about this topic at present and it's time to let go and move on. I am twice

your age, Visti, so perhaps I am more poignantly aware of time blurring by and

each minute being lost.... Perhaps when we both have or rather I have (if you

prefer it) something more to say, at a later date, that'll result in real value

addition, we'll get back to this. Well, about Gurudev's AK, ask him if Saturn's

contribution is not major in his evolution? Would he have got his depth, his

empathy, his understanding, his missionary zeal, unwavering commitment, and

even his sense of humour if not for his AK and the pain he gives? Ask Him.

Regards, Lakshmi Till then, ciao Visti Larsen <vlarsen (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

------------------------

Dear Lakshmi,

 

Lakshmi: Now, Saturn also exalts in the house of Venus, another karaka for

comforts & 4th house!

Don't Moon and Venus both get digbala in the 4th house?

 

Visti: Well if we take your terminology; Moon exalts in Taurus and Venus is

karaka of 7th house. I dont understand this terminology.

 

 

And, as you very righly said Jupiter's the natural significator for 5th & 9th

houses, which are the 2nd and 6th houses respectively from the 4th house.

That's the marakasthana and satrusthana of 4th house. Now, who is the natural

maraka and natural shatru, if not Saturn? And, isn't Saturn as much a

significator of 12th house (moksha sthana) as Jupiter is?

 

Visti: nononono!!! Jupiter is not the significator for Moksha nor is Saturn.

Jupiter will give happiness which will make it easier to get moksha, but in far

the most cases these stray the person far away from it. Similarly Saturn can

give renunciation which can lead to moksha. But none are actually Moksha giving

planets. Only Ketu can give that through finally cutting the ropes of bondage.

 

Saturn as significator of 12th house, is significator of LOSS. Not loss of self

as we can attain through meditation, but loss of such material things such as

money, friends, family, etc.

 

And, yes, Saturn's marana karana sthana is Lagna, because he's forever trying to

wean away the native from the cycle of rebirth and is thoroughly unhappy because

the native is caught again. He is all for liquidation of "I".

 

Visti: Allready answered. Not loss of self.. thats ketu(detachment), and the

term; "Loss of self" is a misconception, in this regard.

 

Now, isn't that an admirable intent and do you see the alignment of purposes of

both the Gurus? Let's not forget the fact that Saturn ® as AK is as much

responsible as Jupiter in lagna for making of a magnificent Guru. Om Gurave

Namah.

 

Visti: Gurudevas Atmakaraka being Saturn and retrogade, doesn't make him a

Great Guru. It shows a desire from past birth, which cannot be removed, and

which he even, allthou highly educated and able to recieve great prosperity in

different professions, could not stray away from!

 

This Graha placed in 11th, i.e. 4th from 8th house, shows that this desire is

regarding such topics as Astrology, Yoga, etc. The strength of Jupiter being in

Simhasanamsa in Lagna makes him a great Guru! And not to exclude the placement

of planets in 5th house which gives good ability in such things as astrology.

 

Secondly, Visti, happiness is not absence of sadness.

 

Visti: This doesn't sound right to me. When i'm free from disease i'm healthy.

 

Lakshmi: Jupiter always remembers the lesson, but not necessarily the entire

flashback. Letting go is a very necessary lesson in life, Visti, and as always,

Jupiter teaches it the best. Saturn also teaches the same thing but in a

diametrically different fashion.

 

Visti: Well somethings i don't remember either. All the grahas are teachers

in some mannor

 

Visti: The weight becomes lighter, the sickness feels as if disapeared, and its

as if there never existed sorrow! This is what your guru can do for you. And

hence recite the Mantra; Om Gurave Namah, and your guru will give you ALL that!

And so say with me; OM GURAVE NAMAH!!! Lakshmi: With pleasure, Visti, OM GURAVE

NAMAH. Regards,Lakshmi

Best wishes, Visti.

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[Guest guest]

Dear Visti,

 

Visti:"I have more to say"

 

So do I, Visti, I discover to my chagrin.

 

Isn't the 7th house, where you rightly said Saturn gets exalted, another satya

peetha? But a Satya peetha where the "I" grows into "we"? Or in other words,

where the "I" gets lost in the euphoria of "we"? Eitherway, Saturn is always

the nemesis of "I".

 

Jupiter's happiness in lagna is because he knows the past as well as future and

knows that this birth is yet another link in a chain that would terminate at

moksha. He's the die hard optimist. Saturn is sad in lagna because he's

grounded in the past, lacks "urdhwa drishti" so can not see the future, can not

see the end of the chain. He wallows in the past, is depressed because of it.

When the END (Ketu) happens he's the happiest, because that would mean lesser

load for him.

Saturn is certainly not the significator of 4th house, but certainly is one of

the significators of 8th & 12th houses, the penultimate & ultimate houses of

moksha trikona. Now what does that say, Visti, think!

Regards,Lakshmi

P.S: I get very tired of arguing, but am usually always caught in one. And it's

mostly of my own making. Why is it so, Visti?

 

Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball

[Guest guest]

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

--

Dear Lakshmi,

 

Isn't the 7th house, where you rightly said Saturn gets exalted, another satya

peetha? But a Satya peetha where the "I" grows into "we"? Or in other words,

where the "I" gets lost in the euphoria of "we"? Eitherway, Saturn is always

the nemesis of "I".

 

Visti: I was thinking about this earlier, unprovoked by our Saturn

discussion. I pondered; What is true love? Is it the sense where you wanto

spend time with another person and enjoy them, or is it the will to make them

happy at any cost? The former promotes own sense gratification, whilst the

latter is closer to service. Both are love, however. But is it true?.. or just

a replacement for our love towards the surpeme lord?

Now its clear why Saturn is exalted in the Natural 7th, where Saturn finds its greatest enjoyment.

 

Jupiter's happiness in lagna is because he knows the past as well as future and

knows that this birth is yet another link in a chain that would terminate at

moksha. He's the die hard optimist.

 

Saturn is sad in lagna because he's grounded in the past, lacks "urdhwa drishti"

so can not see the future, can not see the end of the chain. He wallows in the

past, is depressed because of it.

 

Visti: Saturn doesn't remember for very long, because unlike Rahu, Saturn

gives the results instantly. Saturn sees your actions(3rd) and punishes you

instantly by taking away your job, your health, status etc(10th & Lagna). Hence

Saturn will not waste time. Rahu sees the past(9th), and is the cause of

rebirth.

 

When the END (Ketu) happens he's the happiest, because that would mean lesser load for him.

Saturn is certainly not the significator of 4th house, but certainly is one of

the significators of 8th & 12th houses, the penultimate & ultimate houses of

moksha trikona. Now what does that say, Visti, think!

 

Visti: I do respect that you are trying to teach me due to your age and

experience.

 

Saturn is significator for a number of houses; 6th=Service & Hard labour,

8th=Longevity, 11th=end of life, 12th=loss. Saturn will not kill you, which is

also associated with the 8th house, but Mars is. See that you can't mix these

karakas together and get the same result, but there are different karaks for

each life area.

 

Mars is also the significator of some related houses; 4th=lands, 8th=death &

accidents, its also significator of Lagna, 3rd and 6th houses, but i'll rest

with that for now.

 

But do see that; Saturn promoting Longevity and Mars giving death, cannot have

the same agenda. These are two opposite extremes. And hence Saturn representing

Loss, and Ketu representing Moksha are also different.

And like i said before; Saturn is helpful for Moksha as it promotes renunciation. Period!

 

Now what becomes interesting is seeing the results of Dasa's using this;

Gurudeva has explained it as follows:

1) See the relationship between Maha and Antar Dasa rasi's. Find the

significator of the house-relationship.

 

2) If the significator of the house is strong, then its results will be very

prevalent. If weak then the results will barely be there.

 

Example; If a person running Venus Dasa, Ketu Antar Dasa, whilst Ketu is in the

6th from it, then the results of Ketu's Antar Dasa, will show itself depending

on Mars and Saturn, which will show; Fights/agression and Hard work/Labour

respectively, offcourse also depending on the placements of Venus and Ketu.

 

 

Regards,Lakshmi

P.S: I get very tired of arguing, but am usually always caught in one. And it's

mostly of my own making. Why is it so, Visti?

 

Visti: I don't get tired, because i don't feel that i'm arguing. I want the

truth, and my ego is not going to get in the way of it! It becomes arguing when

we feel we are defending something.. usually defending ourselves.

If i can accept it as truth then i bow and say thanx.

If not then i question from what i know.. not argue.

 

Mars is the significator for fights, and if your Lagna is lorded, occupied or

aspected by Mars(graha Dristi) then you are sure to get into fights, and you

are fiery by nature. If Mars also lords/joins/aspects Paka Lagna, then its of

own doing. Treat the 6th lord similarly.

 

Best wishes, Visti.

p.s. i'm a sucker for detail.

[Guest guest]

Dear VISTI,

Visti:

I was thinking about this earlier, unprovoked by our Saturn discussion.

I pondered; What is true love? Is it the sense where you wanto spend time

with another person and enjoy them, or is it the will to make them happy

at any cost? The former promotes own sense gratification, whilst the latter

is closer to service. Both are love, however. But is it true?.. or just

a replacement for our love towards the surpeme lord?Now

its clear why Saturn is exalted in the Natural 7th, where Saturn finds

its greatest enjoyment.

Even though most of jyotish pundits opine that shani in 7th is bad position,

and once Gurudeva mentioned that Shani would never give felicity between

the couple.. I cannot say that I donot agree.. Yet.. Shani would give deep

symphaty and reliable and true mate if strong and unafflicted in 7th. Since

God never wants us to forget HIS true nature, and let us enjoy life(7th

house), some form of greif would ever be there with shani in 7th.. However,

I agree with your hint about shani in here..

Best wishes,

--

Zoran Radosavljevic

Jyotish Teacher at Shri Jagannath Vedic Centre

mails: ahimsa (AT) NSpoint (DOT) net

ahimsa (AT) neobee (DOT) net

web address: http://www.sjvc.co.yu

[Guest guest]

Dear Visti,

Visti: I was thinking about this earlier, unprovoked by our Saturn

discussion. I pondered; What is true love? Is it the sense where you wanto

spend time with another person and enjoy them, or is it the will to make them

happy at any cost? The former promotes own sense gratification, whilst the

latter is closer to service. Both are love, however. But is it true?.. or just

a replacement for our love towards the surpeme lord?

Now its clear why Saturn is exalted in the Natural 7th, where Saturn finds its greatest enjoyment.

 

Lakshmi: I am very happy to hear such a mature interpretation of "Love" from

someone so young, Visti. It sure makes a great change from the bubblegum

version. Yes, Love in the real sense is bhakti, a great respect & reverence for

other person, a voluntary surrender & sublimation of self and takes one closest

to Paramaatma.There's a saying in my mother tongue that one who hath not loved

truly can not aspire for moksha, because Love alone teaches one to go beyond

oneself...

Visti: Saturn doesn't remember for very long, because unlike Rahu, Saturn

gives the results instantly. Saturn sees your actions(3rd) and punishes you

instantly by taking away your job, your health, status etc(10th & Lagna). Hence

Saturn will not waste time. Rahu sees the past(9th), and is the cause of

rebirth.

 

Lakshmi: While I agree that the nodes cause of rebirth, I really doubt the

swiftness of Saturn's action. He's SLOW.

 

Visti: I do respect that you are trying to teach me due to your age and

experience.

 

Lakshmi: Hey, Visti, no need to be apologetic. What one needs to respect is

knowledge & wisdom and not age. And according to this criteria, you deserve

equal respect, if not more.

Saturn is significator for a number of houses; 6th=Service & Hard labour,

8th=Longevity, 11th=end of life, 12th=loss. Saturn will not kill you, which is

also associated with the 8th house, but Mars is. See that you can't mix these

karakas together and get the same result, but there are different karaks for

each life area.

 

Mars is also the significator of some related houses; 4th=lands, 8th=death &

accidents, its also significator of Lagna, 3rd and 6th houses, but i'll rest

with that for now.

 

But do see that; Saturn promoting Longevity and Mars giving death, cannot have

the same agenda. These are two opposite extremes. And hence Saturn representing

Loss, and Ketu representing Moksha are also different.

And like i said before; Saturn is helpful for Moksha as it promotes renunciation. Period!

 

Lakshmi: Just a minute, Visti, are not these different karakatwas but different

facets of one planet? And, if you look deep enough, don't you find that there's

an amazing cohesion of character running through all these seeming

contrarieties? Now, just because I happened to see Everest from North Face,

will I refuse to recognise a different montage of it as part of Everest?

Talking about Mars as harbinger of death, don't you think as Lord of Aries, he's

also the usherer of new life? Will you deny him one role so that you can justify

the other? Isn't Shiva the Rudra as well as the Mrityunjaya, governing death as

well as immortality? Aren't we about to miss the forest because of the woods,

Visti?

Are the planets, houses & their multiple significations rigid? Infact, doesn't

the concept of "bhavat bhavam" itself provide for considerable elasticity &

overlapping of life-areas & portfolios? A unifying vision, Visti, won't that

make learning so much more complete and challenging?

Now what becomes interesting is seeing the results of Dasa's using this;

Gurudeva has explained it as follows:

1) See the relationship between Maha and Antar Dasa rasi's. Find the

significator of the house-relationship.

 

2) If the significator of the house is strong, then its results will be very

prevalent. If weak then the results will barely be there.

 

Example; If a person running Venus Dasa, Ketu Antar Dasa, whilst Ketu is in the

6th from it, then the results of Ketu's Antar Dasa, will show itself depending

on Mars and Saturn, which will show; Fights/agression and Hard work/Labour

respectively, offcourse also depending on the placements of Venus and Ketu.

 

Lakshmi: What Gurudeva said makes perfect sense. See how well he braids together

so many aspects..even the apparently unrelated ones ..and comes up with such

fantastic, unthought-of explanations. He's truly Unbound. He's the One with the

third eye. By the way, I am zipping off to examine his 5th house.

And, alas, Visti, my 5th is lorded by Mars, he's the AK, he's in the 6th and he

does aspect lagna...ouch..and there's more! Hence the arguments, I guess! For

finding answers, how about me trying some Silence n' Meditation? I think that's

a much more restful way for all concerned

 

Regards,Lakshmi

 

Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball

[Guest guest]

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

--------

Dear Lakshmi,

 

Lakshmi: While I agree that the nodes cause of rebirth, I really doubt the

swiftness of Saturn's action. He's SLOW.

 

Visti: I can qoute a mail, where Gurudeva states the same thing as i have.

 

Lakshmi: Just a minute, Visti, are not these different karakatwas but different

facets of one planet? And, if you look deep enough, don't you find that there's

an amazing cohesion of character running through all these seeming

contrarieties? Now, just because I happened to see Everest from North Face,

will I refuse to recognise a different montage of it as part of Everest?

 

Visti: Agreed, but you must see the difference. Using that criteria, would

you say that Saturn gives Moksha? Rahu is the significator of 12th when it

comes to abroad travel, would that give Moksha? Hardly, hence if you do not

differ from the different sides of the mountain, you might go up one side so

slipery that you will fall off and break your leg, or gain alot of items that

take you away from your true objective. So no doubt you must differ.

Talking about Mars as harbinger of death, don't you think as Lord of Aries, he's

also the usherer of new life? Will you deny him one role so that you can justify

the other? Isn't Shiva the Rudra as well as the Mrityunjaya, governing death as

well as immortality? Aren't we about to miss the forest because of the woods,

Visti?

 

Visti: Aren't we to miss the trees, because of the forest.. Mars as

significator for Lagna, shows ones strength, whilst Sun is the life giver, and

Moon is the sustainer offcourse. Mars doesn't give life no. But as you see with

most martians, they are very dynamic and may plunge through life too quickly,

hence death comes quickly as well. This is the concept of Rudra Yoga, when

Mars/Venus joins with Moon, and can promote early death.

 

Regarding Rudra. Shiva as Rudra, does not hold the mrityunjaya mantra. Shiva as

Rudra, holds the trishoola and hence the ability to kill you, not save you. We

could take all the grahas and give them various images of Shiva;

SambaSiva(Jupiter), Rudra(Mars), etc.

 

Are the planets, houses & their multiple significations rigid? Infact, doesn't

the concept of "bhavat bhavam" itself provide for considerable elasticity &

overlapping of life-areas & portfolios? A unifying vision, Visti, won't that

make learning so much more complete and challenging?

Visti: Do you consider yourself a Bhakti Yogi, or Gyana Yogi? From the above,

i'd say Bhakti. If we aren't rigid in assesing the exact significations, whether

it be through the concept of Bhavat Bhavam, or etc, then how do we differ one

aspect of life from the other. We must be clear and detailed, and then only

will we understand this knowledge to the core. The unifying vision comes in

COMPLETE understanding.. this is no doubt bliss.

 

Best wishes, Visti.

[Guest guest]

Dear Visti,

It's such a relief getting your reply. I was wondering whether I was too aggressive etc.

And, Visti, what makes you think that "trishoola" is held only by Rudra and not

by Mrityunjaya. it was held and it was deployed, not to kill but to protect!

You know, dhanurlagna & ....

About Bhakti yogi and gyana yogi, I don't label myself anything else but human.

Regards,

Lakshmi

 

Visti Larsen <vlarsen (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

--------

Dear Lakshmi,

 

Lakshmi: While I agree that the nodes cause of rebirth, I really doubt the

swiftness of Saturn's action. He's SLOW.

 

Visti: I can qoute a mail, where Gurudeva states the same thing as i have.

 

Lakshmi: Just a minute, Visti, are not these different karakatwas but different

facets of one planet? And, if you look deep enough, don't you find that there's

an amazing cohesion of character running through all these seeming

contrarieties? Now, just because I happened to see Everest from North Face,

will I refuse to recognise a different montage of it as part of Everest?

 

Visti: Agreed, but you must see the difference. Using that criteria, would

you say that Saturn gives Moksha? Rahu is the significator of 12th when it

comes to abroad travel, would that give Moksha? Hardly, hence if you do not

differ from the different sides of the mountain, you might go up one side so

slipery that you will fall off and break your leg, or gain alot of items that

take you away from your true objective. So no doubt you must differ.

Talking about Mars as harbinger of death, don't you think as Lord of Aries, he's

also the usherer of new life? Will you deny him one role so that you can justify

the other? Isn't Shiva the Rudra as well as the Mrityunjaya, governing death as

well as immortality? Aren't we about to miss the forest because of the woods,

Visti?

 

Visti: Aren't we to miss the trees, because of the forest.. Mars as

significator for Lagna, shows ones strength, whilst Sun is the life giver, and

Moon is the sustainer offcourse. Mars doesn't give life no. But as you see with

most martians, they are very dynamic and may plunge through life too quickly,

hence death comes quickly as well. This is the concept of Rudra Yoga, when

Mars/Venus joins with Moon, and can promote early death.

 

Regarding Rudra. Shiva as Rudra, does not hold the mrityunjaya mantra. Shiva as

Rudra, holds the trishoola and hence the ability to kill you, not save you. We

could take all the grahas and give them various images of Shiva;

SambaSiva(Jupiter), Rudra(Mars), etc.

 

Are the planets, houses & their multiple significations rigid? Infact, doesn't

the concept of "bhavat bhavam" itself provide for considerable elasticity &

overlapping of life-areas & portfolios? A unifying vision, Visti, won't that

make learning so much more complete and challenging?

Visti: Do you consider yourself a Bhakti Yogi, or Gyana Yogi? From the above,

i'd say Bhakti. If we aren't rigid in assesing the exact significations, whether

it be through the concept of Bhavat Bhavam, or etc, then how do we differ one

aspect of life from the other. We must be clear and detailed, and then only

will we understand this knowledge to the core. The unifying vision comes in

COMPLETE understanding.. this is no doubt bliss.

 

Best wishes, Visti. Terms of

Service.

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[Guest guest]

Vyam Vysadevaya Namah

-----------------------

Dear Lakshmi,

 

>And, Visti, what makes you think that "trishoola" is held only by Rudra and

>not by Mrityunjaya. it was held and it was deployed, not to kill but to

>protect! You know, dhanurlagna & ....

>

 

Visti: Ok i'll bite. So next time when judging which of 2nd or 8th lords

from Lagna becomes Rudra, and when the Shoola Dasa of trines to Rudra comes,

i'll say; "Either your gonna die, or your gonna live another 120 years."

 

That would prolly make for an interesting look on the natives face.

 

>About Bhakti yogi and gyana yogi, I don't label myself anything else but

>human.

 

Visti: Oh i will label you as atma, not human.. is restricting.

 

Best wishes, Visti.

 

_______________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

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[Guest guest]

Dear Visti, Visti: Agreed, but you must see the difference. Using that

criteria, would you say that Saturngives Moksha? Rahu is the significator of

12th when it comes to abroad travel, would that give Moksha? Hardly, hence if

you do not differ from the different sides of the mountain, you might go up one

side so slipery that you will fall off and break your leg, or gain alot of items

that take you away from your true objective. So no doubt you must differ.

Lakshmi: Attachment to motherland was also considered an attachment as

important/potent as to one's mother & family. So, what Rahu gives in 12th is

also a kind of moksha..freedom from from an attachment. And, Visti, all I said

about was to recogize the inherent consistency / unity manifest in all

different things. Isn't every human being different from the next, yet also the

same? Falling and rising are part of life and define the flow, growth &

excitement of life, Visti.... look at all those peaks and troughs in your ECG.

A deadline indicates finis. What matters not is how many times you fall, but how

many times you rise and keep pressing onwards towards your goal. Your inner

sincerety determines whether you pick up extraneous items..it's not the outer

environment. Rising above the environment is within you, like that of a lotus.

So is the discretion to imbibe/spurn something..like Hamsa.

Visti: Aren't we to miss the trees, because of the forest.. Mars as

significator for Lagna, shows ones strength, whilst Sun is the life giver, and

Moon is the sustainer offcourse. Mars doesn't give life no. But as you see with

most martians, they are very dynamic and may plunge through life too quickly,

hence death comes quickly as well. This is the concept of Rudra Yoga,when

Mars/Venus joins with Moon, and can promote early death. Lakshmi: Well, let me

put it like this. Mars is the one who gives the energy to celebrate the

life-giver (Sun), whose exaltation is moksha (ashwini ruled by Ketu). I have

not read about the Rudra Yoga (thanks for the info!) but from the combination,

it reads like too much passion & thought about physical pleasures that snuff

out the life. And quite correctly so since it negates the very purpose for

which life is given. Mars is naturally miffed and turns Rudra. Visti :Regarding

Rudra. Shiva as Rudra, does not hold the mrityunjaya mantra. Shiva as Rudra,

holds the trishoola and hence the ability to kill you, not save you. Lakshmi:

I am waiting for your reply to my dhanurlagna query... Visti: Do you

consider yourself a Bhakti Yogi, or Gyana Yogi? From the above, i'd say Bhakti.

If we aren't rigid in assesing the exact significations, whether it be through

the concept of Bhavat Bhavam, or etc, then how do we differ one aspect of life

from the other. We must be clear and detailed, and then only will we understand

this knowledge to the core. The unifying vision comes in COMPLETE

understanding.. this is no doubt bliss.

Lakshmi: This question of yours made me ponder a lot, Visti. I also thought

initially that Bhakti, gyana and karma yoga are different routes to Bhagavan

and each in itself is a mokshamarga. But is it really so?

I was thinking of Bhishma, who was a gyana & karma yogi par excellence. The fact

that he could set his own death time speaks volumes about his spiritual calibre.

Even for such an evolved yogi, it was necessary to lie on a bed of arrows and

workout possible negative karma (association of bad people) to avoid rebirth

and ensure moksha. During this time, one night Yudhistira visited Sri Krishna

and found the Lord very absent minded. After sometime, when the Bhagavan was

more mentally with him, Yudhistira teased Krishna about this. Then Krishna

replied that He was with Bhishma, who during his final moments was composing

Vishnu Sahasranamam and the sheer magic and incomparable power of each name

drew the Lord like a magnet to Bhishma. The Lord also urged Yudhistira to go

and receive the sahasranaamam from the old man. Could it be that Bhishma

realised towards the end that something was missing from making his evolution

total..that Bhakti yoga along with gyana and karma yogas is very necessary for

reaching the lord? I was also thinking of another Karma yogi Arjuna, whose love

for krishna was more of a Bhakti yoga..till the Lord gave him Gita so that

Arjuna also grew into a gyana yogi. Perhaps the confluence of bhakti, gyana

and karma yogas is necessary for making a soul complete, and give it the

momentum to carry itself to Him. Perhaps only a complete soul can get moksha,

Visti, that's why so many rebirths even for pious souls? What say you?

My gyana yoga started 7 months back, when I joined SJVC, Visti, with Guruji and

all of you pouring all your perceptions and knowledge into me and starting

fresh thought cycles(ripple effect?). It's like Viswaroopa sandarsana for

me...Sahasra seersha Purushah sahasraaksha sahasrapaath...

Thanks so much.

Regards,Lakshmi

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