Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Vyam Vysadevaya Namah --------------------- Dear Jayakrishnan, I think Jaimini states this; When the Umbelical Cord is cut, as thats when the soul has begun its life, independant of the mothers body. Similarly the Nisheka chart is cast when the Semen leaves the penis of the father, and isn't the time when the Woman concieves. Lastly we have the death chart.. I have no idea on classics referring to this chart, and its interpretation. Best wishes, Visti. - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Wednesday, February 20, 2002 8:26 PM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Hello Jayakrishnan, I believe it is the time when the head first crowns as this is the time when the body is first exposed to the ether and is when the rays of planets first enter the body of the baby thereby programming its life path. Regards, Jyotish - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:26 AM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Namaste, this approach has been *status quo* for some time, yet Sanjay has been very specific in guiding us to the cutting of the cord, and the logic behind this. That is, baby on her/his own witout mother supplying the essentials to remain alive. Jyotish [jyotish (AT) shaw (DOT) ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:34 PMsjvcSubject: Re: [sjvc] Question on birth time Hello Jayakrishnan, I believe it is the time when the head first crowns as this is the time when the body is first exposed to the ether and is when the rays of planets first enter the body of the baby thereby programming its life path. Regards, Jyotish - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:26 AM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereYour use of is subject to the Your use of Groups is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Hi, During a recent conversation with a doctor, I was told that cutting the cord triggers physical changes in the baby, almost like a shock, and that is when the baby cries. So there seems to be a very valid physical reason as wel for Sanjay's guide. Regards, Nimmi - Frank in Austin sjvc Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:56 AM RE: [sjvc] Question on birth time Namaste, this approach has been *status quo* for some time, yet Sanjay has been very specific in guiding us to the cutting of the cord, and the logic behind this. That is, baby on her/his own witout mother supplying the essentials to remain alive. Jyotish [jyotish (AT) shaw (DOT) ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:34 PMsjvcSubject: Re: [sjvc] Question on birth time Hello Jayakrishnan, I believe it is the time when the head first crowns as this is the time when the body is first exposed to the ether and is when the rays of planets first enter the body of the baby thereby programming its life path. Regards, Jyotish - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:26 AM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereYour use of is subject to the Your use of Groups is subject to the Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Namaste Gurudev, Jayakrishnan, Visti and friends My first jyorish guru Shri Ganesh ji told that it is the number of breathes a native comes with as his destiny and not the number of years of life. If it's n number of breath, you've been given by Him in this birth, the moment you INHALE your first breath, your life starts (Birth) and the moment you EXHALE your last breath, you left this body (Death). That's why in some yoga excersises, controlling your breath increases lonegvity. (Please do not start doing it untill you've some expert Yoga Guru with you.) Now, when the baby's head start coming out of womb, it starts INHALING. As the air goes inside lungs, they expands. This causes little pain and due to which the baby cries. It might be possible that the doctors cut the cord later on. In that case, the cord does not function any more as soon as the baby takes its first breath. Sometimes, the baby can not breath properly and he does not cries. At that time the doctors pinch a little to the baby so that the baby should feel pain and start crying. Crying will start its breath. So, it is the time when the baby take its FIRST BREATH either when the head coming out of womb or after giving artificial pain by the doctor, that is the time of birth no matter the position of cord. Visti Says: >When the Umbelical Cord is cut, as thats when the soul has begun its life, independant of the mothers body. As I've discussed this point above, it is the FIRST BREATH which decided the independant life starting of baby. The Umbelical cord may be JOINED at that time. Gopal Krishan DodaKrishanFriend GopalKrishanDoda - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:56 AM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Namaste Gopal Krishan Doda , Yes I have heard this too...and many saints say "save the breadth".... Pranayyam helps with this as it *orders* the breadth as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi has told many in the past. Also , saving the breatth by not blowing out candles, or flame, Agni) is another point of keeping prana with you. Gopal Krishan Doda [krishanfriend ] Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:47 AMTo: sjvcSubject: Re: [sjvc] Question on birth time Namaste Gurudev, Jayakrishnan, Visti and friends My first jyorish guru Shri Ganesh ji told that it is the number of breathes a native comes with as his destiny and not the number of years of life. If it's n number of breath, you've been given by Him in this birth, the moment you INHALE your first breath, your life starts (Birth) and the moment you EXHALE your last breath, you left this body (Death). That's why in some yoga excersises, controlling your breath increases lonegvity. (Please do not start doing it untill you've some expert Yoga Guru with you.) Now, when the baby's head start coming out of womb, it starts INHALING. As the air goes inside lungs, they expands. This causes little pain and due to which the baby cries. It might be possible that the doctors cut the cord later on. In that case, the cord does not function any more as soon as the baby takes its first breath. Sometimes, the baby can not breath properly and he does not cries. At that time the doctors pinch a little to the baby so that the baby should feel pain and start crying. Crying will start its breath. So, it is the time when the baby take its FIRST BREATH either when the head coming out of womb or after giving artificial pain by the doctor, that is the time of birth no matter the position of cord. Visti Says: >When the Umbelical Cord is cut, as thats when the soul has begun its life, independant of the mothers body. As I've discussed this point above, it is the FIRST BREATH which decided the independant life starting of baby. The Umbelical cord may be JOINED at that time. Gopal Krishan DodaKrishanFriend GopalKrishanDoda - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:56 AM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 om gurave namah------------------------Dear Gopal Krishna ji Namaste. You speak of a name that is respected in delhi circles for his depth and tradition. yes ganeshi is a respected and learned man. He is sincere to the subject and a good teacher also. I do partially agree with him and shall give you my clear thinking on this aspect. This is the only serious question, till date that has ever been raised against the other option of Nadi sodhana (i.e. cutting of the umbilicus). For this we need to first understand death. Satyacharya has taught us that the human being is defined by the Tripod of the Sun, Moon and Lagna and that these alone are the principal definition for the human being. Of these, the Sun is the Atma (first definition), Moon is the Mana (second definiton) and Lagna is the body (third definition). Swami Abhedananda who is considered the greatest exponent on life after death (his experiments etc are the finest that have been done and his writings are the clearest in the past 2-3 centuries). Reading his works affirms the Satyacharya principle that death is a physical manifestation of the separation of the three primary constituents of the being i.e. Creation is the coming together of the three - Lagna, Moon & Sun and Death is the final separation of all these three. For more details, please read the first chapter, opening paragraph of my book Vedic Remedies in Astrology. The Sun is the first to come and last to leave; Moon is the second to come (7th month of pregnancy) and normally second last to leave (except in some rare cases). lagna is the last to come (Delivery/Birth) and normally the first to leave. Unless this is understood clearly, construction os conception charts or predictions of death will be like firing in the dark. With this in mind, let us examine each aspect: Leaving aside the Sun and the Moon, as their leaving before the Lagna ends is only in exceptional or rare cases, Medical death is defined as the end of the BODY. So, we are limiting our discussion to the general case. BODY: Now, what is the body made of? It is composed of various chemical elements that are in some physical state (3 tatwa-Prithvi, Jala, Vayu) and that are energitic (Agni tatwa). The body parts work together and are bound together due to the 'INVIOLABLE PRINCIPLE' (Adabhyam) of Brihaspati (Akash tatwa). The Akash Tatwa is not visible and pearmeates the whole body and binds it together forcing the parts to work in perfect harmony and in support to each other. We, physically, cannot leave our head behind and take the rest of body to office because of this inviolable principle. Thus it is Akash tatwa which is the principal component of the body and that often continues even after medical death as the 'ethereal body'. Abhedananda's experiments have proved beyond an iota of doubt that the ectoplasm taken from a living person can help a medically dead person (existing in the spirit form) to manifest in a very light bodied physical form that can be photographed (like smoke which has material particles) and that is why the photographs taken of spirits that had manifested using the ectoplam were actually like smoky bodied. Thus, the first point about the body is that the akash tatwa continues to exist even after the other four tatwa have left the body and medical death has occured. Lesson here is that the Akash tatwa (through which Visnu {sarva vyapakeswara) permeates all bodies continues even after Rudra has left and the body is declared medically dead. Now look at the other four tatwa carefully. Agni is associated with each of the other Tatwa therby providing them the energy to do work. That leaves us with three tatwa i.e. Prithvi (solid), Jala (Liquid) and Vayu (gas). Of these, we can see the dead body much after medical death and the blood takes some time to dry up also. So, the first Tatwa whose decay causes medical death is Vayu (Saturn-Longevity),and this is associated with the movement of the Prana as well. Thus, by a proper regulation of the Vayu tatwa through yogic practises like Pranayama, we can strengthen this Tatwa and the Prana to avert apamrityu (premature death). FIRST BREATH Further, extending this theory backwards to birth, we can say that the moment of birth is the first breath. This is the logic used. But then technically or rather this can be construed as 'medical birth'. Question that would arise is 'If this is medical birth then what is the moment of birth?. CUTTING OF UMBILICUS Ask any of the people you know if they will part with their thumb and the reply is a definite 'NO'. This is a part of their body and they would not part with it for anyone's whim and fancy. So, is the foetus a part of the mother's body? If your answer is NO, then it will be hard to explain the concept of prakriti and Purusha etc. If your answer is 'YES' then the moment of separation of the body of the created being from that of the mother is the time of birth as it is at this moment that an independant body (Lagna) has come into being. After all, the time of birth is used to determine the Lagna. As regards breath, I was taught that the baby breathes inside the mother as well and that the breath or Vayu tatwa is made available through the mothers blood. The method of total breath being fixed includes the time spent in the womb and that this is applicable to the Nisheka (Conception chart) and not to the Janma (Birth chart). It is for this reason that the expectant mother (during pregnancy) is advised to be calm as excessive emotions causes her to breathe faster and so also the baby inside her will breathe faster thereby consuming more of those vital limited breath. She is advised to read Vishnu puran etc and stay calm. It is now clear that the only moment for birth time is the cutting of the umbilicus or the separation of the baby from its mother. In view of the above, you should kindly update Sri Ganesh ji. With best wishesSanjay RathWeb: http://sanjayrath.tripod.comServices: http://sanjayrath.tripod.com/zservices.htmJyotish Digest: http://jyotishdigest.com/SJVC: http://www.sjvc.org/ - Gopal Krishan Doda sjvc Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:17 PM Re: [sjvc] Question on birth time Namaste Gurudev, Jayakrishnan, Visti and friends My first jyorish guru Shri Ganesh ji told that it is the number of breathes a native comes with as his destiny and not the number of years of life. If it's n number of breath, you've been given by Him in this birth, the moment you INHALE your first breath, your life starts (Birth) and the moment you EXHALE your last breath, you left this body (Death). That's why in some yoga excersises, controlling your breath increases lonegvity. (Please do not start doing it untill you've some expert Yoga Guru with you.) Now, when the baby's head start coming out of womb, it starts INHALING. As the air goes inside lungs, they expands. This causes little pain and due to which the baby cries. It might be possible that the doctors cut the cord later on. In that case, the cord does not function any more as soon as the baby takes its first breath. Sometimes, the baby can not breath properly and he does not cries. At that time the doctors pinch a little to the baby so that the baby should feel pain and start crying. Crying will start its breath. So, it is the time when the baby take its FIRST BREATH either when the head coming out of womb or after giving artificial pain by the doctor, that is the time of birth no matter the position of cord. Visti Says: >When the Umbelical Cord is cut, as thats when the soul has begun its life, independant of the mothers body. As I've discussed this point above, it is the FIRST BREATH which decided the independant life starting of baby. The Umbelical cord may be JOINED at that time. Gopal Krishan DodaKrishanFriend GopalKrishanDoda - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:56 AM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 om gurave namah------------------------Dear arna, I have always taught what is i the tradition. Take it or leave it but in the long run, the Maharishi's will prove to be right. Satyacharya's statement clearly points at cutting of the umbilicus.With best wishesSanjay RathWeb: http://sanjayrath.tripod.comServices: http://sanjayrath.tripod.com/zservices.htmJyotish Digest: http://jyotishdigest.com/SJVC: http://www.sjvc.org/ - Arno Holzmann sjvc Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:51 PM AW: [sjvc] Question on birth time Namaste, Since we are already at it, I would like to throw in my two pence, too. Satyacharya adresses the question in Satya Jatakam and states that “bhu patanam” ie. The moment when the baby´s full body emerges and touches the earth is the time of birth (as opposed to the moment when the head first shows). Taking the time of cutting the umbilical chord makes sense, but is it clearly supported by Satyacharya? I am not sure and this is a bit confusing to me, because on the one hand we strictly quote authorities on certain issues and then we ignore them on others. And to make matters worse, there is yet another version: some say that the babys independent existence starts with the first cry or the first breath. As soon as the new born baby starts breathing on his or her own, the umbilical chord becomes non-functional. After a few minutes the chord stops pulsating and kind of dies off, even if it is not cut immediately. I had personal experience of this during the birth of my second son. His head emerged at 7.17, the body emerged at 7.18 but the chord was only cut at 7,32 and 40 seconds. In my son´s chart taking either of these birth times makes quite a difference in the vargas. The midwife had me personally cut the umbilical chord and when I held and cut it, it seemed to be a dead piece of matter already. So taking the time of the first breath or cry also makes sense to me. I am still undecided. One thing is for certain: If moment of the cutting of the cord is the real birth time, then many, many charts will require rectification in the vargas, as most birth times will probably be off by a few minutes. Regards, Arno -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----Von: Nimmi Ragavan [106350.3660 (AT) compuserve (DOT) com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Februar 2002 08:06An: sjvcBetreff: Re: [sjvc] Question on birth time Hi, During a recent conversation with a doctor, I was told that cutting the cord triggers physical changes in the baby, almost like a shock, and that is when the baby cries. So there seems to be a very valid physical reason as wel for Sanjay's guide. Regards, Nimmi - Frank in Austin sjvc Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:56 AM RE: [sjvc] Question on birth time Namaste, this approach has been *status quo* for some time, yet Sanjay has been very specific in guiding us to the cutting of the cord, and the logic behind this. That is, baby on her/his own witout mother supplying the essentials to remain alive. Jyotish [jyotish (AT) shaw (DOT) ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:34 PMsjvcSubject: Re: [sjvc] Question on birth time Hello Jayakrishnan, I believe it is the time when the head first crowns as this is the time when the body is first exposed to the ether and is when the rays of planets first enter the body of the baby thereby programming its life path. Regards, Jyotish - Jayakrishnan Menon sjvc Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:26 AM [sjvc] Question on birth time Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are there any more possibilities?) Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? Thanks Jayakrishnan MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereYour use of is subject to the Your use of is subject to the Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 Pranaam Sanjayji, Please don't refer me as "ji". I'm your student who is looking for ray of knowledge and blessings. I'm much younger than you - in age, in knowledge, in every aspect. You are the Guru of my Guru (Shri Narasimhaji) and in a way my Guru also. It's your greatness but in any aspect I do not deserve this. I respect and accept your every line of teaching; and so this mail also. I'll express my views / doubts on it later on as this "ji" word has shattered my heart. >>In view of the above, you should kindly update Sri Ganesh ji. Secondly, Shri Ganesh ji just mentioned in one of his class the first paragrsph of my mail. >My first jyorish guru Shri Ganesh ji told that it is the number of breathes a native comes with as his >destiny and not the number of years of life. If it's n number of breath, you've been given by Him in this >birth, the moment you INHALE your first breath, your life starts (Birth) and the moment you EXHALE >your last breath, you left this body (Death). I get this point in one of his class and here I was just trying to co- relate the above statement with my limited knowledge. It's my mistake and not his. Thanks Your Sishya, Gopal Krishan Doda KrishanFriend GopalKrishanDoda sjvc, "Sanjay Rath" <srath@v...> wrote: > om gurave namah > ------------------------ > Dear Gopal Krishna ji > > Namaste. You speak of a name that is respected in delhi circles for his > depth and tradition. yes ganeshi is a respected and learned man. He is > sincere to the subject and a good teacher also. I do partially agree with > him and shall give you my clear thinking on this aspect. This is the only > serious question, till date that has ever been raised against the other > option of Nadi sodhana (i.e. cutting of the umbilicus). For this we need to > first understand death. > > Satyacharya has taught us that the human being is defined by the Tripod of > the Sun, Moon and Lagna and that these alone are the principal definition > for the human being. Of these, the Sun is the Atma (first definition), Moon > is the Mana (second definiton) and Lagna is the body (third definition). > > Swami Abhedananda who is considered the greatest exponent on life after > death (his experiments etc are the finest that have been done and his > writings are the clearest in the past 2-3 centuries). Reading his works > affirms the Satyacharya principle that death is a physical manifestation of > the separation of the three primary constituents of the being i.e. Creation > is the coming together of the three - Lagna, Moon & Sun and Death is the > final separation of all these three. For more details, please read the first > chapter, opening paragraph of my book Vedic Remedies in Astrology. > The Sun is the first to come and last to leave; Moon is the second to > come (7th month of pregnancy) and normally second last to leave (except in > some rare cases). lagna is the last to come (Delivery/Birth) and normally > the first to leave. Unless this is understood clearly, construction os > conception charts or predictions of death will be like firing in the dark. > > With this in mind, let us examine each aspect: > Leaving aside the Sun and the Moon, as their leaving before the Lagna ends > is only in exceptional or rare cases, Medical death is defined as the end of > the BODY. So, we are limiting our discussion to the general case. > BODY: > Now, what is the body made of? It is composed of various chemical elements > that are in some physical state (3 tatwa-Prithvi, Jala, Vayu) and that are > energitic (Agni tatwa). The body parts work together and are bound together > due to the 'INVIOLABLE PRINCIPLE' (Adabhyam) of Brihaspati (Akash tatwa). > The Akash Tatwa is not visible and pearmeates the whole body and binds it > together forcing the parts to work in perfect harmony and in support to each > other. We, physically, cannot leave our head behind and take the rest of > body to office because of this inviolable principle. Thus it is Akash tatwa > which is the principal component of the body and that often continues even > after medical death as the 'ethereal body'. Abhedananda's experiments have > proved beyond an iota of doubt that the ectoplasm taken from a living person > can help a medically dead person (existing in the spirit form) to manifest > in a very light bodied physical form that can be photographed (like smoke > which has material particles) and that is why the photographs taken of > spirits that had manifested using the ectoplam were actually like smoky > bodied. Thus, the first point about the body is that the akash tatwa > continues to exist even after the other four tatwa have left the body and > medical death has occured. Lesson here is that the Akash tatwa (through > which Visnu {sarva vyapakeswara) permeates all bodies continues even after > Rudra has left and the body is declared medically dead. > > Now look at the other four tatwa carefully. Agni is associated with each > of the other Tatwa therby providing them the energy to do work. That leaves > us with three tatwa i.e. Prithvi (solid), Jala (Liquid) and Vayu (gas). Of > these, we can see the dead body much after medical death and the blood takes > some time to dry up also. So, the first Tatwa whose decay causes medical > death is Vayu (Saturn-Longevity),and this is associated with the movement of > the Prana as well. Thus, by a proper regulation of the Vayu tatwa through > yogic practises like Pranayama, we can strengthen this Tatwa and the Prana > to avert apamrityu (premature death). > FIRST BREATH > Further, extending this theory backwards to birth, we can say that the > moment of birth is the first breath. This is the logic used. But then > technically or rather this can be construed as 'medical birth'. Question > that would arise is 'If this is medical birth then what is the moment of > birth?. > CUTTING OF UMBILICUS > Ask any of the people you know if they will part with their thumb and > the reply is a definite 'NO'. This is a part of their body and they would > not part with it for anyone's whim and fancy. So, is the foetus a part of > the mother's body? If your answer is NO, then it will be hard to explain the > concept of prakriti and Purusha etc. If your answer is 'YES' then the moment > of separation of the body of the created being from that of the mother is > the time of birth as it is at this moment that an independant body (Lagna) > has come into being. After all, the time of birth is used to determine the > Lagna. > As regards breath, I was taught that the baby breathes inside the mother > as well and that the breath or Vayu tatwa is made available through the > mothers blood. The method of total breath being fixed includes the time > spent in the womb and that this is applicable to the Nisheka (Conception > chart) and not to the Janma (Birth chart). It is for this reason that the > expectant mother (during pregnancy) is advised to be calm as excessive > emotions causes her to breathe faster and so also the baby inside her will > breathe faster thereby consuming more of those vital limited breath. She is > advised to read Vishnu puran etc and stay calm. > It is now clear that the only moment for birth time is the cutting of > the umbilicus or the separation of the baby from its mother. > In view of the above, you should kindly update Sri Ganesh ji. > > With best wishes > Sanjay Rath > Web: http://sanjayrath.tripod.com > Services: http://sanjayrath.tripod.com/zservices.htm > Jyotish Digest: http://jyotishdigest.com/ > SJVC: http://www.sjvc.org/ > - > Gopal Krishan Doda > sjvc > Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:17 PM > Re: [sjvc] Question on birth time > > > Namaste Gurudev, Jayakrishnan, Visti and friends > > My first jyorish guru Shri Ganesh ji told that it is the number of breathes > a native comes with as his destiny and not the number of years of life. If > it's n number of breath, you've been given by Him in this birth, the moment > you INHALE your first breath, your life starts (Birth) and the moment you > EXHALE your last breath, you left this body (Death). > > That's why in some yoga excersises, controlling your breath increases > lonegvity. > (Please do not start doing it untill you've some expert Yoga Guru with you.) > > Now, when the baby's head start coming out of womb, it starts INHALING. As > the air goes inside lungs, they expands. This causes little pain and due to > which the baby cries. It might be possible that the doctors cut the cord > later on. In that case, the cord does not function any more as soon as the > baby takes its first breath. Sometimes, the baby can not breath properly and > he does not cries. At that time the doctors pinch a little to the baby so > that the baby should feel pain and start crying. Crying will start its > breath. > > So, it is the time when the baby take its FIRST BREATH either when the head > coming out of womb or after giving artificial pain by the doctor, that is > the time of birth no matter the position of cord. > > > > Visti Says: > >When the Umbelical Cord is cut, as thats when the soul has begun its life, > independant of the mothers body. > > As I've discussed this point above, it is the FIRST BREATH which decided the > independant life starting of baby. The Umbelical cord may be JOINED at that > time. > > > > Gopal Krishan Doda > KrishanFriend > GopalKrishanDoda > - > Jayakrishnan Menon > sjvc > Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:56 AM > [sjvc] Question on birth time > > > Om Gam Ganapathaye Namah > > I am confused on a very basic question. What do we take as the birth time? > the time when the baby's head appears from the womb, when it comes out > completely, when it cries first or when the umbilical cord is cut? (Are > there any more possibilities?) > > Could the respected gurus and peers on the list shed light on this? > Thanks > Jayakrishnan > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.