Relationship between planets

December 24, 2001

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Nitish and Nandan,

(Note to all: Mr.Nandan and Nitish had raised some sincere questions and it is

related to dasa. I request the very beginners to bear with us and read these

and if you do not understand about dasa, please do not get confused, once we go

to dasa lesson you can understand well)

Very good questions. But, the real full answer requires the entire Jyotish course.

These are the points I wanted to cover in the Rasi lesson and I do not want to

say again that we shall wait until the lesson. I will answer your questions and

then let me include this portion in the lesson also.

Jyotish and Human life are based on several influencing forces. Our mind is calm

and cool in the morning. In the evening we end up in headache and in between so

many factors influenced our body and mind and resulted in head ache.

So, basically right from the minute particles of atom and microbiological

organisms like bacteria and virus to the gigantic articles like ship, building

etc., influence our life, through body and mind.

In Jyotish, these influencing forces are represented by Planets and signs, mainly.

Signs or Rasis are aboard, ayana, whereas Planets represents animate things. A

combination of these planets and signs represents a person and his life. Dasa

and transit determines the quantum of influence at a particular time.

These are all what you know. As you have asked in your question about the Mars

and Moon dasa, there are many people after reading a Jyotish book ask a similar

question, “I have Raja yoga in the chart, but I struggled through out the

life, why?”

The basic is: The slokas or dictum given in all the texts are for one or two

dimensional readings. But, Jyotish or human life is multi dimensional.

Rasi is one dimension. Combining one Rasi and one Planet is Two dimensional.

Combining one Rasi, one Planet and Bhava (house) represented by that rasi is 3

dimensional.

Let me explain this: Aries is a dynamic, enterprising, Agni, Dharma sign. When

Saturn is placed in it, it is Neecha and in enemy sign. If Aries is 1st bhava,

it is danger. If it is 12th bhava, it is Vipareeta Raja Yoga. So, the 3rd

dimension alters everything.

Now, how many such dimensions are there. Let us take only a sign and see how

many such influences are there. This will apply to all signs and each has many

sub dimensions.

1.Sign

2.Placement of the sign lord

3.Conjunction of other planets in a sign (these conjoined planets quality

depends on the dimensions listed here for that planet)

4.Conjunction of other planets with the sign lord

5.Aspect (Sign and Planetary) on the sign and lord

6.Argala on the sign and lord

7.Bhava of the sign.

8.Sign and Lord placed from various special lagnas and padas

9.Placement in different divisional charts, special emphasis to Navamsa

10.Other strength factors (many in number)

11.Avasthas

12.CharaKarakatwa

13.Yogas/dhoshas involved in this sign and sign lord

We can add more to this.

We have to blend all these and conclude that “so and so will be the

influence of a planet w.r.t particular event”. Mars – Moon dasa

bukthi reference is only one aspect. It will get modified based on the all

other references.

We can ask a question, by this way the reference given will not be applicable

for any chart, then why should we read such dictums. It is because, from the

slokas or dictums we must derive the meaning or background of such slokas.

Instead of taking them in verbatim, we should think, why such a sloka is given,

what is the basis for it. Then we can apply the same principle without referring

to the texts or without memorizing it.

Now let me explain the blending of all these with an example for the benefit of

very beginners. We add hot water, sugar, tea powder and milk. After adding all

these things, we get Tea. After this we will call this as tea not as a

‘mixer of sugar, hot water, milk and tea powder’. So, the nature of

the ingredients is completely changed. When we change the quantity of any of

these ingredients, the taste changes. Similarly, any small change in the

planetary position brings a great change in the personalities and life of

twins. When people look at yoga or dosha, they want to look at sugar in Tea.

No, we are a mixer and we cannot look at the yoga in isolation.

So, we cannot look at anything in Jyotish in isolation.

In Jataka Parijatak, in one chapter, it is mentioned that 4 or more planets in a

sign in strength gives Pravraja Yoga and in another chapter, it lists different

readings for 4 or more planets placed in different signs. Why is it

contradictory? We can see such contradiction in all the texts. But, there is no

such contradiction. We have to blend all these and conclude.

Apart from what is given above, for a particular matter, the karakatwa has to be

considered. These influences also get changes depending on the dasa bukthi and

transit.

When it is come to dasa bukthi, we normally, look at the dasa lords and

interpret. But, we should look at all the planets which are influencing the

dasa lord. Plus the bhavas and planets influenced by the dasa lords.

Apart from this, in dasa interpretation, there are various methods of

considerations, like (1) dasa lord from Sun; (2) dividing the sign into 3

portions, (3) dividing the sign in two.

Apart from this there are certain yogas and doshas which is permanent in a chart

right from the birth and there are certain yogas and doshas which starts at

particular time and ends at particular time.

A good Jyotisha must be able to give proper weightage to these influences and

must be able to come to correct prediction. The art of Jyotish lies in giving

these weightages. This art will come only by reading many charts and practice.

Before that as I mentioned earlier, we have to take each and every sloka

separately and find out what is the reason behind such sloka.

Before that we must thorough in the basics to decipher the sloka.

As requested by Nandan and Beau, after we finish Rasi lesson, we will take

individual charts and we will analyse from all angles. Then all these will be

clear.

Answers for your questions are given below.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Nitish Arya [anitish (AT) mailcity (DOT) com]Sent:

24 December 2001 12:21 PMsjvcSubject: Re: [sjvc]

Relationship between planets

Guru Solani Ji, I agree to you that multiplicity of meanings in sanskrit

language and a gap of understanding between modern and ancient people are our

biggest problems in Jyotish. Regarding your reply, I feel that the questions

asked by Mr. Nandan are still not answered entirely. So I would pose a few more

queries on the explanation given by you so that the problem Mr. Nandan and

starters like me are facing is cleared. I would humbly suggest you to read the

entire mail as a whole and then answer it in parts. As you said in your

previous mail,>Mars is the 5th lord from the moon sign of cancer in the natural

>Zodiac and both of them have mutual sign aspect. So, it brings the >happiness

from children. Here, you have taken into account the significations that Mars

fructifies (in Mars-Moon dasha) by being related to Moon as the 5th lord from

the Cancer. There are many questions at this point which are confusing me.

Does this relationship of Mars and Moon produce results during Mars-Moon dasha,

inspite of there being other stronger relationships between Mars and Moon in a

particular horoscope? [solai] No. This is only one factor. If other factors are

stronger, those things will manifest. For example, if these two planets are

inimical to 5th bhava in Rasi and also in Saptamsa, there will not be any

happiness from children. On the contrary if they are beneficially disposed,

there is a chance that the native will get a child in this dasa bukthi. Which

one of these numerous relationships between Mars and Moon will actually

fructify during say Mars-Moon dasha and if all of them fructify according to

their relative strengths, How are they distributed throughout the Mars-Moon

dasha...(say First-half and latter-half, or day and night, or according to Hora

of Mars and Moon during a day, or according to weekday lordship)? [solai] Yes,

all the relationships have the impact. Not only the Mars and Moon. But, other

planets also has the influence. For interpretation of dasa, I briefly

mentioned above, we will see in the dasa lesson in detail. Also, Whether the

result will be different for Moon-Mars dasha (not considering the house lordship

effects as Mr. Nandan pointed out)? [solai] Yes. It will be different. What I

want to emphatically ask is :-1.) How many "different relations" (both actual

and derived) can exist or are "recognized to exist", in the classical texts,

between two different planets such that these "different relations" affect the

"actual fructification that happens" in the corresponding dasha-antar ? (e.g.

rashi dispositorship, nakshatra dispositorship, aspect, rashi/nakshatra

exchange, relative position of two planets (like mutual kendra/kon..), relative

position of their rashis, badhaka, karaka, mutual tatwa, mutual swabhava, are a

few relations that, I know, can exist between two planets). If possible, please

list all possible relationships that can exist between two planets and also

explain what they are for and how they affect the natural signification of

either of the two planets?[solai] Some you have listed here, some I have listed

above. I cannot cover all, but I will cover argala and rasi dristi influence in

the Rasi lesson. 2.) Do these "different relations" affect the "actual

fructification" in a mutually exclusive way or strengthen/weaken the affects of

each other?[solai] Again it is not in isolation. It all depends various factors.

Plus, the effect gets affected depending on the sub-dasas. Dasa and Antar dasa

effects are not same through out the period. 3.) Which of these "different

relations" between the two planets will fructify in dasha-antar of two planets?

As a hint to my view of this question, I have following to say: [some of the

books, that I have read, say that the "common factor" between the two planets

will fructify in dasha-antar of the two planets; Is it true? Which of the

"different relationships" between two planets should we use to find the "common

factor"? What are the rest of the relationships for?][solai] As I given above

these are only two dimensional and not to be taken in isolation and apply. This

is only one portion of the blending, sugar. Tea depends on other factors also.

4.) What will be the result of the dasha-antar of the planets that are in "no

way related" according to the "different relations" listed in the classical

texts? Do classical texts say anything about such "non-related" planets?

[solai] No. All planets are related. How? If you want to know about your father

at any particular time, you should consider the natural karaka Sun and you

should reckon from Sun. From Sun you have to see how well these dasa bukthi

planets are placed and from them how Sun is disposed is very important. So, it

is a web and no planet will be missed. This is what people miss when

interpreting the dasa. Though my queries are not yet finished, I want to be

more realistic by modifying my other queries according to your answer to the

above queries. Please, quote the dictums from the classical texts to prove your

point, if possible, because that would help us starters to get a feel of what

actually is happening rather than being overwhelmed by the sheer content of

information given in ancient texts without significantly gaining any predictive

power?[solai] Yes Nitish, you can ask any question. There is no problem and we

will try our best. You joined only on 21st December and I very much appreciate

your enthusiasm. However, in order to go along with the class, please attempt

the previous lessons. Waiting for your reply,regards,nitish--On Mon, 24 Dec

2001 10:42:20 Solai Kannan wrote:>OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH>JAYA

JAGANNATHA>>Namaste Nandan,>>I understand your frustration. I will note some

portions of the problems>cited by you and try to solve it in the coming

lessons, also I will note>some of the points mentioned by Mr.Beau. But, I can

do only to some extent.>My and our biggest problem is Sanskrit. We have only

the translations. They>are insufficient. Because, Sanskrit is a special

language, it has many>meanings. It has many ways to interpret those meanings.

We have to>acknowledge this drawback. The translations, we have today are very

poor in>many aspects. With my very very poor Hindi (not Sanskrit) knowledge I

can>see many mistakes in the translations. Dhana is poorly translated as

wealth,>but its true meaning is more than wealth. Similarly, Artha, has

many>meanings, which one to be considered at a particular time depends on

the>prefix and suffix of a sloka. This is only one aspect of difficulty we

face>in interpreting the meaning.>>But, this can be rectified or improved by

our own understanding of the>basics.>>Let us look at the example you have

given. When, no chart reference is given>and other placement is not considered,

apart from the natural Karakatwa and>natural tatwa, we have to see the natural

zodiac as reference.>>Mars is the 5th lord from the moon sign of cancer in the

natural Zodiac and>both of them have mutual sign aspect. So, it brings the

happiness from>children.>>Bilious illness to mother and self is because of the

bilious malefic nature>of Mars with Moon karaka for self (Janma rasi & mind)

and mother.>>Mars is the yogakaraka for cancer and Aries aspects the 2nd house

from>cancer, plus Aries is a chara rasi and many sources of wealth is

indicated.>>So, it all depends on the application.>>Thanks>Solai Kannan>>

>

nandan.chakraborty (AT) ilfsindia (DOT) com>[nandan.chakraborty (AT) ilfsindia (DOT) com]>Sent:

24 December 2001 8:04 AM>sjvc>Re: [sjvc]

Relationship between planets>>>> Dear Mr Dasgupta & other friends>> Thank you

for the list. Actually I was talking about PURE relationships> between planets

& undiluted by effects of lordships & house-placements,> which your list is

actually about. Pure planetary relationships include> meanings from classics

in 3 areas: a) planetary positions in various signs> (which is similar to

being disposited by various planets), OR b)> conjunctions between planets, or

c) mutual dasa-antar effects.>> However, the point of writing THIS mail is

different. Without meaning to>in> any way, detract from your effort in

compiling your list of planets in> various houses, & as lords, for the benefit

of all of us, I MUST URGE most> of us NOT to use lists like these at all. I

wish to reiterate the point> made in my previous e-mail. In all such meanings

given, there are usually>3> basic rules: (note I am ignoring placement & ALL

house-related matters,> whether placement in a house, or a lordship, all of

which would>incorporate> yogas, etc etc: That is, let's just take plain planet

X in sign Y OR>planet> X conjoined to planet Y OR X's maha dasa with Y's antar,

all these IN> ISOLATION):>> a) natural friendships, etc Sn in Ar> b) being in

own/ exaltation, etc: eg Ma deb in Cn> c) a merger of their natural meanings,

eg fiery Sn with fiery Ma ignites>Ma> into say anger/ courage/ injury (as both

natural malefics)>> The point is, there are MANY many things written in such

definitions in>the> classics, which provide meanings which are inexplicable OR

even contra, if> you just use the above 3 generic rules. I cant even begin to

enumerate the> divergences. If u read these in any classic, u will find it

yourself. So,> there IS much that we do NOT understand, in finding a method to

all this.> It actually becomes much SIMPLER to explain, when u add on the>

complications of houses & placements. But just try reading the simple>

definitions of the 3 instances in the classics, & u will know what I am>

saying.>> OK. Let me give an example. Mars dasa lord with Moon antar, where

a>typical> definition goes: hapiness fm children & friends; wealth from

different &> many sources, bilious trouble to self or mother. Lets analyse

this.> Ma (bile, anger, fiery, etc) with Moon (mother, wealth, watery, etc).

They> are mutual natural friends, inimical tattwas, for a start. Can u

decipher> ALL aspects of the above definition from any stretch of

imagination,> knowing what u do know about the 2 planets (IGNORE placements,

lordships,> etc, as the definition also ignores it). Why is the wealth from

DIFFERENT> sources, why is the happiness from CHILDREN ?>> And u will find

this road-block whatever part of the classics u read. So> there IS something

we need guidance on, not lists. Something missing in> our approach to

learning>> Best wishes>> Nandan>>>>>> Sponsor>

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December 24, 2001

Dear Mr. Nandan,

Yes, I agree that this type of lists cannot be used as it is. This is a very

basic and general type of interpretetion.

Regards,

Dasgupta

-

nandan.chakraborty (AT) ilfsindia (DOT) com

sjvc

Monday, December 24, 2001 10:34 AM

Re: [sjvc] Relationship between planets

Dear Mr Dasgupta & other friendsThank you for the list. Actually I was talking

about PURE relationshipsbetween planets & undiluted by effects of lordships &

house-placements,which your list is actually about. Pure planetary

relationships includemeanings from classics in 3 areas: a) planetary positions

in various signs(which is similar to being disposited by various planets), OR

b)conjunctions between planets, or c) mutual dasa-antar effects.However, the

point of writing THIS mail is different. Without meaning to inany way, detract

from your effort in compiling your list of planets invarious houses, & as

lords, for the benefit of all of us, I MUST URGE mostof us NOT to use lists

like these at all. I wish to reiterate the pointmade in my previous e-mail. In

all such meanings given, there are usually 3basic rules: (note I am ignoring

placement & ALL house-related matters,whether placement in a house, or a

lordship, all of which would incorporateyogas, etc etc: That is, let's just

take plain planet X in sign Y OR planetX conjoined to planet Y OR X's maha dasa

with Y's antar, all these INISOLATION):a) natural friendships, etc Sn in Arb)

being in own/ exaltation, etc: eg Ma deb in Cnc) a merger of their natural

meanings, eg fiery Sn with fiery Ma ignites Mainto say anger/ courage/ injury

(as both natural malefics)The point is, there are MANY many things written in

such definitions in theclassics, which provide meanings which are inexplicable

OR even contra, ifyou just use the above 3 generic rules. I cant even begin to

enumerate thedivergences. If u read these in any classic, u will find it

yourself. So,there IS much that we do NOT understand, in finding a method to

all this.It actually becomes much SIMPLER to explain, when u add on

thecomplications of houses & placements. But just try reading the

simpledefinitions of the 3 instances in the classics, & u will know what I

amsaying.OK. Let me give an example. Mars dasa lord with Moon antar, where a

typicaldefinition goes: hapiness fm children & friends; wealth from different

&many sources, bilious trouble to self or mother. Lets analyse this.Ma (bile,

anger, fiery, etc) with Moon (mother, wealth, watery, etc). Theyare mutual

natural friends, inimical tattwas, for a start. Can u decipherALL aspects of

the above definition from any stretch of imagination,knowing what u do know

about the 2 planets (IGNORE placements, lordships,etc, as the definition also

ignores it). Why is the wealth from DIFFERENTsources, why is the happiness from

CHILDREN ?And u will find this road-block whatever part of the classics u read.

Sothere IS something we need guidance on, not lists. Something missing inour

approach to learningBest wishesNandan

December 24, 2001

Let noble thoughts come to us from every side

- Rig-Veda, 1-89-i

Namaste,

Solari wrote: Signs or Rasis are aboard, ayana, whereas Planets represents

animate things. A combination of these planets and signs represents a person

and his life. Dasa and transit determines the quantum of influence at a

particular time.

I am not sure of your message re: " Rasi's are abroad, ayana".

Are you referring to Ayanansh i.e. the difference between sidereal and tropical

zodiac? This leads to the conversation of Nirayan

System and the Saayan System :1. Nir- ayan = without consideration for

ayan-anash or the Sidereal System

2. Sa-ayan = with consideration of ayan-ansh or the Tropical System

! Shanti, Shanti Shanti Frank in Austin , Fschmidt (AT) Austin (DOT) rr.com

Solai Kannan [solai (AT) ihb (DOT) net] Sent:

Monday, December 24, 2001 5:37 AMsjvcSubject: [sjvc]