My attempt at understanding the natural relationship b/w planets

[Guest guest]

Dear Solai Guru & fellow-students

 

Sub: Following Shri Rath's advise, Serious Attempt made at Understanding

Natural Relationships b/w planets

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

| |Friend |Neut |Neut |Enemy |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

|Sn |Mn Ma Jp| |Mc |Ve St |

| | | | | |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

|Mn |Sn Mc |Ma Jp|Ve St|NIL |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

|Ma |Sn Mn Jp| |Ve St|Mc |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

|Mc |Ve Sn |St |Ma Jp|Mn |

| | | | | |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

|Jp |Sn Mn Ma| |St |Ve Mc |

| | | | | |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

|Ve |St Mc | |Ma Jp|Sn Mn |

| | | | | |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

|St |Ve Mc | |Jp |Sn Mn|

| | | | |Ma |

|----+--------+-----+-----+-------|

 

 

 

Am trying to make a serious attempt in understanding the Natural

relationships b/w planets, as suggested by Shri Rath & Shri Kannan. To tell

this story, am basically using my sense of each planet being in the

environment of each of the other planets. For simplicity, am ignoring (a)

all neutrals, and (b) all 1-sided relationships. May be in a 2nd attempt

later. I also aim this weekend, to start Solai Guru's other assignment, ie

vedic references to the planets, tho it will be daunting.

 

The fundamental reason why I joined SJVC was to understand the core fundas

in astrology; & am glad that the Gurus here are egging me to start this

reflection process. 1st column= the planet under consideration. 2nd column

= the planetary environment (envt), under which it is placed. 3rd col= the

operation of 1 in 2.

|---+---+----------------------|

|Sn |Mn |Sn needs the Mn's receptive envt to manifest itself,|

| | |for the beginning of creation in the 1st place. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ma |Creation/ manifestation likes an action-oriented envt,|

| | |that its general, Ma provides. Vitality is squared|

| | |here, which is also why the Sn when it conjoins it,|

| | |doesn't combust Ma, but ignites it. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Jp |Jp's free-form expansive envt is good for the Sn to|

| | |shine forth its premordial unmanifest formlessness. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ve |Gets side-tracked by Ve's ploys to embed it in|

| | |indulgence/ stasis, when the Sn actually wants to keep|

| | |manifesting thru' taking various forms/ avtars. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |St |Gets hamstrung by St's contractive mode, given its|

| | |basic urge to manifest & St's punitive envt which is|

| | |not necessary yet, till the Soul (Sn) actually|

| | |manifests into various planets. In his son's (St) sign,|

| | |how can the father (Sn) be comfortable for long|

| | |periods. Same reason as for Ve, ie St tries to fixate|

| | |the Sn's manifestation urge. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mc |Fluidy Mc does not fixate Sn like Ve/ St do. But this|

| | |fickle is not the best envt for primal manifestation,|

| | |which is the Sn's basic urge. So neutral. Whew! See, I|

| | |am trying. A little elastic, here'n there is allowed,|

| | |I guess! |

|---+---+----------------------|

|Mn |Sn |After all, it is the wife of the Sn. Likes being under|

| | |the Sn's glowing care. "Self- awareness" (Mn) is|

| | |comfortable in an environment of manifestation. OTOH,|

| | |when the father is too close, ie at home all day and|

| | |not working out on the fields to get in the dough for|

| | |the family, it harangues the Sn, who in turn dominates|

| | |it. So a little Ayn-Randish "love-at-distance,|

| | |hate-at-proximity". Hence, Mn's MAIN strength/|

| | |disposition depends on its distance from the Sn. They|

| | |love each other, but like to divide up their duties|

| | |separately, so they both know the family will be taken|

| | |care of. Some stretch, that! |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mc |Mc is the next in command (going in the manifestation|

| | |cycle from Sn/Mn= Le/Cn in both directions till u reach|

| | |Cp/ Aq= St) to translate the Mn's perception (thru the|

| | |5 senses) into organisation of these stimuli into|

| | |meaningful data. No other planet can do that next step.|

| | |So the Mn is comfortable in Mc's translation/|

| | |organisation envt; mother is comfortable in his son's|

| | |house |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |- |NIL enemies and all the rest neutral: Why? Any hints|

| | |from anyone? Shouldn't Jp provide a nice expansive envt|

| | |for Mn's mental potential?. Shouldn't St discipline it|

| | |to an effective practical shape? So, shouldn't they be|

| | |friendly environments. Yes, I understand Ma can disturb|

| | |its quiet "reflection", and Ve can fixate it (a no-no|

| | |for the 2 primal manifestors, Sn & Mn). But then, why|

| | |are they not enemies instead? |

|---+---+----------------------|

|Ma |Sn |Sn commands. It executes well under the stable|

| | |authoritative framework that the King (Sn) provides. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mn |The mother (Mn) too commands, or reflects the Sn's|

| | |commands. So, same logic as above. Or: the Mn does not|

| | |question, it reflects on/ understands Ma's urge to|

| | |execute. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Jp |Now for some interesting stretched logic: The general|

| | |executor (Ma) also listens to the religious head (Jp).|

| | |After all, Generals have in the past, betrayed their|

| | |political bosses for the Pope (remember the 1st|

| | |protestant Queen = Elizabeth?). Or: again, execution is|

| | |best done under a stable authoritative framework, which|

| | |Jp provides in the form of wisdom, just as Sn does|

| | |politically |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mc |This niddly-piddly-thinking-thinking-delaying envt is|

| | |just NOT the quagmire where a soldier can march|

| | |effectively in. Action, man! |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |St |St (delay) should be a bad envt ? why neutral? |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ve |Comfortable, indulgent, pleasurable Ve envt. My cousin|

| | |is a Brigadier in the Indian Army (IA), a PVC awardee|

| | |and in cahrge of the biggest brigade in the IA. He saw|

| | |my office one day, which is a marble-covered heavily|

| | |carpeted, whispery, typical financial envt. He said his|

| | |soldiers would get sore-throat from the cold-water and|

| | |the AC, and snooze all the time. And the absolute|

| | |quietude would make it impossible for him to give any|

| | |orders. So there! Shouldn't Ve be an inimical envt for|

| | |Ma? |

|---+---+----------------------|

|Mc | |This is actually the most complex. So many have 1-sided|

| | |relationships for Mc. Anyway, let's try. After all, we|

| | |got thru Mn, which also has so many 1-siders, & with|

| | |all these neutrals to boot! |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Sn |With its signs enclosing both sides of Sn-Mn (ie|

| | |Le-Cn), it's the 1st PRACTICAL base for the Sn-Mn's|

| | |manifestion, into thinking-relating-organising, which|

| | |then stretches forward, to desire= Ve (Ta-Li), then|

| | |action= Ma (Ar-Sc), etc, ending at the limit of|

| | |manifestation= St (Aq-Cp on the opposite axis to|

| | |Le-Cn). But, this is conveniently using another funda.|

| | |So let's get back to basics, ie lets think of the|

| | |intellect Mc operating in Sn's authoritative/ centric|

| | |framework. Let's not use fundas as it pleases our|

| | |convenience. So: Mc in Le= intellectual/|

| | |organisational urge in a Centric/ authorative|

| | |framework. Yes, intellect can play effectively if given|

| | |a basic direction (Pirsig's "Zen & the art of|

| | |motorcycle maintenance"; else, the mind will just keep|

| | |generating hypotheses ad infinitum, which are all|

| | |plausible. OK, I nailed that too, with a little stretch|

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ve |The intellect needs to be embedded & comfortable, for|

| | |it to play/ swing around something. While a challenging|

| | |envt (eg Ma/ St) make it sharper & creative, it is also|

| | |the comfort-envt (Ve) which makes it indulge in the|

| | |creative arts & culture. Actually, the OTHER funda,|

| | |about the next hand-over from manifestation (Sn-Mn =|

| | |Le-Cn) to organisation of envtl stimuli into data-bytes|

| | |(ie Mc=Ge/Vi) to the next natural urge if you have ALL|

| | |this data, ie DESIRE (Ve) is also a tempting logic.|

| | |But, tut tut, let's not conveniently use that here ?|

| | |that "sequence of signs" breaks its logic too often. So|

| | |can't really use it sometimes, and sometimes not, Not|

| | |fair. So lets stick to the previous logic |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mn |Mc's nature is to PLAY/ experiment, & so, learn. It's|

| | |the 1st practical stage of manifestation. Before|

| | |desires (Ve) or action which gives REAL learning (Ma)|

| | |and ending in discipline (St). It can play under the|

| | |authoritative figure-head of daddy Sn, thereby knowing|

| | |its overall-reference-frame and arena/ boundary of|

| | |play. But Mummy Mn, who only seems to reflect daddy's|

| | |orders, is not convincing enough an authority and not|

| | |pleasurable enough like Ve. OK. That WAS stretched|

| | |logic!. I actually can't fathom why Mc can't play in|

| | |Mn-Cn's perceptive/ reflective envt. After all, Cn is|

| | |flowing water, not fixated water (well) like Sc or|

| | |unpredictable water (spring/ fountain) like Pi. So Mc|

| | |should swim well in Mn-Cn. Why is the Mn, Mc's|

| | |enemy-envt? Why is the son (Mc) not comfortable in his|

| | |mother's (Mn) house. Mother doesn't berate him all the|

| | |time! |

|---+---+----------------------|

| | |Ma/Jp/St as neutral envts: Lemme just finish this 1st|

| | |round & get your comments, before touching this unholy|

| | |NEUTRAL business! |

|---+---+----------------------|

|Jp | |You are the herennow Touchable Guru, unlike the distant|

| | |Sn (astronomers, go away!). So please help me with|

| | |answers from here onwards. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Sn |I like to think of wisdom (Jp) arising from the|

| | |unmanifest-yet (Sn). Wisdom is comfortable under the|

| | |auspices of the Beyond, reaching for it expansively |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mn |Wisdom comes from a receptive framework, where u FIRST|

| | |perceive (Mn's envt), before questioning, as|

| | |questioning arises from the urge to fit new|

| | |stimuli-data into existing pigeon-hole frameworks (Mc),|

| | |& cant accept what does not fit the framework it itself|

| | |has created with earlier data. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ma |The wise priest sometimes likes authoritative|

| | |positions, ie in an executive mode. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ve |Let's think of the Asura-General (Ve), using his|

| | |Shadripu weapons of wars, not being an amenable envt|

| | |for truth-seeking & direct/ forthright Jp |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mc |The entry of wisdom gets blocked by constant thinking.|

| | |Answered above under Jp-Mn |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |St |Convenient to think of Jp & St as 2 counterpoints|

| | |(expansion/ contraction, &c), just like Ma & Ve, the 2|

| | |generals are. Two opposite sides of the boat, doing|

| | |essentially the same thing (Jp/St= teaching, Ma/ Ve=|

| | |passionate desire for action), but in different ways.|

| | |Hence, both sets are neutral to each other. Or: imagine|

| | |an Indian & a Paki soldier pass ing a beer across the|

| | |barbed wire in a common difficult terrain. Far away|

| | |from their respective political leaders, in|

| | |peace-times, all they see is the same environment. The|

| | |border is a treacherous climate (Leh, Thar, &c). At|

| | |peace times, both have to keep alive. They are both|

| | |doing their duties, tho in different ways - but both|

| | |are soldiers, the same profession. Even their own civil|

| | |country-men wont really understand them as much as|

| | |another soldier can. But what happens in war-times? Say|

| | |one is in the other's sign, neutral, but the other is|

| | |in a dusthan from it. Do they then fight tooth & nail,|

| | |unlike other planets? I dont know |

|---+---+----------------------|

| | |Oh, thatnk you Jp. U did not forsake me, in|

| | |understanding Your relationships at least. Now, please|

| | |to continue this blessing. Wily Ve is going to trap me|

| | |next with his indulgent envt. |

|---+---+----------------------|

|Ve |Mc/|Friendly envts. Play (Mc) in a secure boundary (St) is|

| |St |the best pleasure (Ve). [YES. I realise, THAT sounds|

| | |very contrived ? logic. Jp, thou hast forsaken me!] |

|---+---+----------------------|

 

Let me have dinner & continue. B'cos now I'm feeling I'm going crazy

becoming a receptacle to every form of imaginative hypothesis-generation

that is possible, to fit facts. This whole thought-process & approach is

just disturbing me a lot. Something seems all wrong. I don't know if Shri

Rath really meant that I try this approach in order to remember the

relationships b/w planets. I think I will need a few more years of basic

SJVC lessons, before I can attempt this question again.

 

After dinner: I do feel guilty that this despairing tone will affect other

students. So let's continue.

|---+---+----------------------|

|Ve |Mc |Pleasure can be sought comfortably in a playful envt. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |St |BUT how in St's limiting/ punitive envt? Is it because|

| | |pleasure also needs definite boundaries, where it can|

| | |be ensconced comfortably, knowing it will not cross the|

| | |limit & get hurt? [An attempt, for whatever it's|

| | |worth!] |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Sn/|Pleasure/ Harmony needs a comfortable envt, not the|

| |Mn |very difficult/ separative manifesting envt of Sn/ Mn.|

| | |Pleasure/ Leisure/ Harmony/ Culture needs a stable/|

| | |prosperous envt, on the Ganges/ Saraswati banks, not|

| | |where horsemen from the North want to manifest |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ma/|Neutral envts. I attempted the Ma one (ref Jp-St|

| |Jp |above). Why neutral to Jp? |

|---+---+----------------------|

|St | |Hah! actually the QUICKEST teacher for the|

| | |less-evolved. Wants to finish all its teaching in 1|

| | |life-time. Not crassly/ cruelly like Ma, or pleasurably|

| | |like Ve, or further wisdom for the already-evolved like|

| | |Jp. When all these other teachers have failed, the most|

| | |patient final teacher. Pass him, & u reach moksha. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ve |The old man needs a comfortable bed, like Ve's. Some|

| | |nice colours & objets-d'arts around him. He cant|

| | |operate in harsh envts. |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mc |The old man thinks & thinks. In this mental envt, he|

| | |chews & chews, patiently seeking & creating (limiting)|

| | |mental constructs in which new data can be organised.|

| | |But doesn't St get disturbed in this continuous rush of|

| | |information. Shouldn't it actually be an inimical envt|

| | |for St, to be in Mc's sign? Any hints? |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Jp |Answered: see Jp-St |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Sn |In his father's house, he is bridled. Or: the old man|

| | |(St) likes a cool, dark, comfortable place; his eyes|

| | |cant take the Sn, at his age. [A stretch of logic|

| | |there!] |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Mn |Flowing water, river, too unsteady an envt for the old|

| | |man at his age |

|---+---+----------------------|

| |Ma |Too harsh an environment, too much huffnpuff all|

| | |around, too hot (ref St-Ve above) |

|---+---+----------------------|

 

 

As Gurudev has disallowed by memorisation approach, I tried the above

approach. But it seriously reads like stretched logic, using facts as

convenient, which I don't think is what astrology is about. Is it?

 

Anyone willing to help me?

 

Yours desparingly

 

Nandan

[Guest guest]

hare rama krishna

 

Some thoughts:

 

There are two general groups of planets, those friendly to the devas

(Su,Mo,Ju,Ma) and those friendly to the asuras (Ve,Sa,Me). The natural

relationship is friendship within a group and enmity between.

 

1) Sun as the ruler is friendly to all who don't oppose him.

2) Moon as a vaisya ruler will get along with everyone (no enmity

towards him).

3) Moon will oppose all those who aren't friendly to the king Sun.

4) Jupiter as a saatwik brahmana does not have enmity towards anyone.

5) Venus is like Vishwamitra when he was almost a Brahma-rishi but had

not yet conquered his jealousy of Vasishta. He has enmity towards

saatwik Su, Ju.

6) Saturn has a single pointed enmity with his father Sun.

7) Tamasik Kshatriya Mars is friendly to those that have a better

station in life (Su, Ju) and is an enemy to those that have a lower

station (Sa).

8) Mercury shows his vaisya nature towards the rulers, and shows his

raajasik nature towards others.

 

ajit

 

--

Ajit Krishnan

ajit

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~ajit

[Guest guest]

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

 

Namaste Nandan and other Jyotishas,

 

As you mentioned, no one will think it is crazy. We have to think and understand

the real meaning of the dictum. I very much appreciate your thinking and there

are some very good points hidden in your mail. I hope by writing this lengthy

mail you might have familiarised with the relationship.

 

I request you and other sisyas to think on any sloka and dictum and write the

outcome like you have done here. This is very important in Jyotish. Blindly

following "so and so planet in so and so house will give so and so result" will

not help. We must think and come out, why such a dictum is given.

 

No outcome of your thinking is stupid. This forum is to get more out of you.

 

Thanks

Solai Kannan

nandan.chakraborty (AT) ilfsindia (DOT) com

[nandan.chakraborty (AT) ilfsindia (DOT) com]Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:13

PMsjvcSubject: [sjvc] My attempt at understanding the

natural relationship b/w planetsDear Solai Guru & fellow-studentsSub:

Following Shri Rath's advise, Serious Attempt made at Understanding

Natural Relationships b/w planets|----+--------+-----+-----+-------||

|Friend |Neut |Neut |Enemy ||----+--------+-----+-----+-------||Sn |Mn Ma

Jp| |Mc |Ve St || | | | |

||----+--------+-----+-----+-------||Mn |Sn Mc |Ma Jp|Ve St|NIL

||----+--------+-----+-----+-------||Ma |Sn Mn Jp| |Ve St|Mc

||----+--------+-----+-----+-------||Mc |Ve Sn |St |Ma Jp|Mn || |

| | | ||----+--------+-----+-----+-------||Jp |Sn Mn Ma|

|St |Ve Mc || | | | |

||----+--------+-----+-----+-------||Ve |St Mc | |Ma Jp|Sn Mn || |

| | | ||----+--------+-----+-----+-------||St |Ve Mc |

|Jp |Sn Mn|| | | | |Ma

||----+--------+-----+-----+-------|Am trying to make a serious attempt

in understanding the Naturalrelationships b/w planets, as suggested by Shri

Rath & Shri Kannan. To tellthis story, am basically using my sense of

each planet being in theenvironment of each of the other planets. For

simplicity, am ignoring (a)all neutrals, and (b) all 1-sided relationships.

May be in a 2nd attemptlater. I also aim this weekend, to start Solai Guru's

other assignment, ievedic references to the planets, tho it will be

daunting.The fundamental reason why I joined SJVC was to understand the core

fundasin astrology; & am glad that the Gurus here are egging me to start

thisreflection process. 1st column= the planet under consideration. 2nd

column= the planetary environment (envt), under which it is placed. 3rd col=

theoperation of 1 in

2.|---+---+----------------------||Sn |Mn |Sn

needs the Mn's receptive envt to manifest itself,|| | |for the beginning

of creation in the 1st place.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Ma

|Creation/ manifestation likes an action-oriented envt,|| | |that its

general, Ma provides. Vitality is squared|| | |here, which is also

why the Sn when it conjoins it,|| | |doesn't combust Ma, but ignites it.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Jp |Jp's

free-form expansive envt is good for the Sn to|| | |shine forth its

premordial unmanifest formlessness.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Ve |Gets

side-tracked by Ve's ploys to embed it in|| | |indulgence/ stasis,

when the Sn actually wants to keep|| | |manifesting thru' taking various

forms/ avtars.

||---+---+----------------------|| |St |Gets

hamstrung by St's contractive mode, given its|| | |basic urge to

manifest & St's punitive envt which is|| | |not necessary yet, till

the Soul (Sn) actually|| | |manifests into various planets. In his son's

(St) sign,|| | |how can the father (Sn) be comfortable for long||

| |periods. Same reason as for Ve, ie St tries to fixate|| | |the Sn's

manifestation urge.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mc

|Fluidy Mc does not fixate Sn like Ve/ St do. But this|| | |fickle is

not the best envt for primal manifestation,|| | |which is the Sn's basic

urge. So neutral. Whew! See, I|| | |am trying. A little elastic, here'n

there is allowed,|| | |I guess!

||---+---+----------------------||Mn |Sn

|After all, it is the wife of the Sn. Likes being under|| | |the Sn's

glowing care. "Self- awareness" (Mn) is|| | |comfortable in an

environment of manifestation. OTOH,|| | |when the father is too close,

ie at home all day and|| | |not working out on the fields to get in the

dough for|| | |the family, it harangues the Sn, who in turn dominates||

| |it. So a little Ayn-Randish "love-at-distance,|| |

|hate-at-proximity". Hence, Mn's MAIN strength/|| | |disposition

depends on its distance from the Sn. They|| | |love each other, but

like to divide up their duties|| | |separately, so they both know the

family will be taken|| | |care of. Some stretch, that!

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mc

|Mc is the next in command (going in the manifestation|| | |cycle from

Sn/Mn= Le/Cn in both directions till u reach|| | |Cp/ Aq= St) to translate

the Mn's perception (thru the|| | |5 senses) into organisation of these

stimuli into|| | |meaningful data. No other planet can do that next step.||

| |So the Mn is comfortable in Mc's translation/|| |

|organisation envt; mother is comfortable in his son's|| | |house

||---+---+----------------------|| |- |NIL

enemies and all the rest neutral: Why? Any hints|| | |from anyone?

Shouldn't Jp provide a nice expansive envt|| | |for Mn's mental

potential?. Shouldn't St discipline it|| | |to an effective practical

shape? So, shouldn't they be|| | |friendly environments. Yes, I understand

Ma can disturb|| | |its quiet "reflection", and Ve can fixate it (a

no-no|| | |for the 2 primal manifestors, Sn & Mn). But then, why|| |

|are they not enemies instead?

||---+---+----------------------||Ma |Sn |Sn

commands. It executes well under the stable|| | |authoritative

framework that the King (Sn) provides.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mn |The

mother (Mn) too commands, or reflects the Sn's|| | |commands. So, same

logic as above. Or: the Mn does not|| | |question, it reflects on/

understands Ma's urge to|| | |execute.

||---+---+----------------------||

|Jp |Now for some interesting stretched logic: The general|| | |executor

(Ma) also listens to the religious head (Jp).|| | |After all, Generals

have in the past, betrayed their|| | |political bosses for the Pope

(remember the 1st|| | |protestant Queen = Elizabeth?). Or: again,

execution is|| | |best done under a stable authoritative framework, which||

| |Jp provides in the form of wisdom, just as Sn does|| |

|politically

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mc |This

niddly-piddly-thinking-thinking-delaying envt is|| | |just NOT the

quagmire where a soldier can march|| | |effectively in. Action, man!

||---+---+----------------------|| |St |St

(delay) should be a bad envt ? why neutral?

||---+---+----------------------|| |Ve

|Comfortable, indulgent, pleasurable Ve envt. My cousin|| | |is a

Brigadier in the Indian Army (IA), a PVC awardee|| | |and in cahrge of the

biggest brigade in the IA. He saw|| | |my office one day, which is a

marble-covered heavily|| | |carpeted, whispery, typical financial envt. He

said his|| | |soldiers would get sore-throat from the cold-water and|| |

|the AC, and snooze all the time. And the absolute|| | |quietude

would make it impossible for him to give any|| | |orders. So there!

Shouldn't Ve be an inimical envt for|| | |Ma?

||---+---+----------------------||Mc | |This

is actually the most complex. So many have 1-sided|| | |relationships for

Mc. Anyway, let's try. After all, we|| | |got thru Mn, which also has so

many 1-siders, & with|| | |all these neutrals to boot!

||---+---+----------------------|| |Sn

|With its signs enclosing both sides of Sn-Mn (ie|| | |Le-Cn), it's

the 1st PRACTICAL base for the Sn-Mn's|| | |manifestion, into

thinking-relating-organising, which|| | |then stretches forward, to

desire= Ve (Ta-Li), then|| | |action= Ma (Ar-Sc), etc, ending at the

limit of|| | |manifestation= St (Aq-Cp on the opposite axis to|| |

|Le-Cn). But, this is conveniently using another funda.|| | |So let's

get back to basics, ie lets think of the|| | |intellect Mc operating

in Sn's authoritative/ centric|| | |framework. Let's not use fundas as

it pleases our|| | |convenience. So: Mc in Le=

intellectual/|| | |organisational urge in a Centric/

authorative|| | |framework. Yes, intellect can play effectively if given||

| |a basic direction (Pirsig's "Zen & the art of|| |

|motorcycle maintenance"; else, the mind will just keep|| | |generating

hypotheses ad infinitum, which are all|| | |plausible. OK, I nailed

that too, with a little

stretch||---+---+----------------------||

|Ve |The intellect needs to be embedded & comfortable, for|| | |it to

play/ swing around something. While a challenging|| | |envt (eg Ma/ St)

make it sharper & creative, it is also|| | |the comfort-envt (Ve) which

makes it indulge in the|| | |creative arts & culture. Actually, the

OTHER funda,|| | |about the next hand-over from manifestation (Sn-Mn =||

| |Le-Cn) to organisation of envtl stimuli into data-bytes|| | |(ie

Mc=Ge/Vi) to the next natural urge if you have ALL|| | |this data, ie

DESIRE (Ve) is also a tempting logic.|| | |But, tut tut, let's not

conveniently use that here ?|| | |that "sequence of signs" breaks its logic

too often. So|| | |can't really use it sometimes, and sometimes not, Not||

| |fair. So lets stick to the previous logic

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mn |Mc's

nature is to PLAY/ experiment, & so, learn. It's|| | |the 1st practical

stage of manifestation. Before|| | |desires (Ve) or action which gives

REAL learning (Ma)|| | |and ending in discipline (St). It can play under

the|| | |authoritative figure-head of daddy Sn, thereby knowing|| |

|its overall-reference-frame and arena/ boundary of|| | |play. But

Mummy Mn, who only seems to reflect daddy's|| | |orders, is not

convincing enough an authority and not|| | |pleasurable enough like Ve.

OK. That WAS stretched|| | |logic!. I actually can't fathom why Mc can't

play in|| | |Mn-Cn's perceptive/ reflective envt. After all, Cn is|| |

|flowing water, not fixated water (well) like Sc or|| | |unpredictable

water (spring/ fountain) like Pi. So Mc|| | |should swim well in Mn-Cn.

Why is the Mn, Mc's|| | |enemy-envt? Why is the son (Mc) not

comfortable in his|| | |mother's (Mn) house. Mother doesn't berate him all

the|| | |time!

||---+---+----------------------|| |

|Ma/Jp/St as neutral envts: Lemme just finish this 1st|| | |round & get

your comments, before touching this unholy|| | |NEUTRAL business!

||---+---+----------------------||Jp | |You

are the herennow Touchable Guru, unlike the distant|| | |Sn (astronomers,

go away!). So please help me with|| | |answers from here onwards.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Sn |I

like to think of wisdom (Jp) arising from the|| | |unmanifest-yet

(Sn). Wisdom is comfortable under the|| | |auspices of the Beyond,

reaching for it expansively

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mn

|Wisdom comes from a receptive framework, where u FIRST|| | |perceive

(Mn's envt), before questioning, as|| | |questioning arises

from the urge to fit new|| | |stimuli-data into existing

pigeon-hole frameworks (Mc),|| | |& cant accept what does not fit the

framework it itself|| | |has created with earlier data.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Ma

|The wise priest sometimes likes authoritative|| | |positions, ie

in an executive mode.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Ve

|Let's think of the Asura-General (Ve), using his|| | |Shadripu

weapons of wars, not being an amenable envt|| | |for truth-seeking &

direct/ forthright Jp

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mc |The

entry of wisdom gets blocked by constant thinking.|| | |Answered above under

Jp-Mn

||---+---+----------------------|| |St

|Convenient to think of Jp & St as 2 counterpoints|| | |(expansion/

contraction, &c), just like Ma & Ve, the 2|| | |generals are. Two

opposite sides of the boat, doing|| | |essentially the same thing

(Jp/St= teaching, Ma/ Ve=|| | |passionate desire for action), but in

different ways.|| | |Hence, both sets are neutral to each other. Or:

imagine|| | |an Indian & a Paki soldier pass ing a beer across the|| |

|barbed wire in a common difficult terrain. Far away|| | |from their

respective political leaders, in|| | |peace-times, all they see is

the same environment. The|| | |border is a treacherous climate (Leh,

Thar, &c). At|| | |peace times, both have to keep alive. They are

both|| | |doing their duties, tho in different ways - but both|| |

|are soldiers, the same profession. Even their own civil|| | |country-men

wont really understand them as much as|| | |another soldier can. But

what happens in war-times? Say|| | |one is in the other's sign, neutral,

but the other is|| | |in a dusthan from it. Do they then fight tooth &

nail,|| | |unlike other planets? I dont know

||---+---+----------------------|| | |Oh,

thatnk you Jp. U did not forsake me, in|| | |understanding Your

relationships at least. Now, please|| | |to continue this blessing. Wily

Ve is going to trap me|| | |next with his indulgent envt.

||---+---+----------------------||Ve

|Mc/|Friendly envts. Play (Mc) in a secure boundary (St) is|| |St |the best

pleasure (Ve). [YES. I realise, THAT sounds|| | |very contrived ? logic.

Jp, thou hast forsaken me!]

||---+---+----------------------|Let me have

dinner & continue. B'cos now I'm feeling I'm going crazybecoming a

receptacle to every form of imaginative hypothesis-generationthat is

possible, to fit facts. This whole thought-process & approach isjust

disturbing me a lot. Something seems all wrong. I don't know if ShriRath

really meant that I try this approach in order to remember

therelationships b/w planets. I think I will need a few more years of

basicSJVC lessons, before I can attempt this question again.After dinner: I do

feel guilty that this despairing tone will affect otherstudents. So let's

continue.|---+---+----------------------||Ve

|Mc |Pleasure can be sought comfortably in a playful envt.

||---+---+----------------------|| |St |BUT

how in St's limiting/ punitive envt? Is it because|| | |pleasure also

needs definite boundaries, where it can|| | |be ensconced comfortably,

knowing it will not cross the|| | |limit & get hurt? [An attempt, for

whatever it's|| | |worth!]

||---+---+----------------------||

|Sn/|Pleasure/ Harmony needs a comfortable envt, not the|| |Mn |very

difficult/ separative manifesting envt of Sn/ Mn.|| | |Pleasure/ Leisure/

Harmony/ Culture needs a stable/|| | |prosperous envt, on the Ganges/

Saraswati banks, not|| | |where horsemen from the North want to manifest

||---+---+----------------------||

|Ma/|Neutral envts. I attempted the Ma one (ref Jp-St|| |Jp |above).

Why neutral to Jp?

||---+---+----------------------||St | |Hah!

actually the QUICKEST teacher for the|| | |less-evolved. Wants

to finish all its teaching in 1|| | |life-time. Not crassly/ cruelly like

Ma, or pleasurably|| | |like Ve, or further wisdom for the already-evolved

like|| | |Jp. When all these other teachers have failed, the most|| |

|patient final teacher. Pass him, & u reach moksha.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Ve |The

old man needs a comfortable bed, like Ve's. Some|| | |nice colours &

objets-d'arts around him. He cant|| | |operate in harsh envts.

||---+---+----------------------|| |Mc |The

old man thinks & thinks. In this mental envt, he|| | |chews & chews,

patiently seeking & creating (limiting)|| | |mental constructs in which

new data can be organised.|| | |But doesn't St get disturbed in this

continuous rush of|| | |information. Shouldn't it actually be an inimical

envt|| | |for St, to be in Mc's sign? Any hints?

||---+---+----------------------|| |Jp

|Answered: see Jp-St

||---+---+----------------------|| |Sn |In

his father's house, he is bridled. Or: the old man|| | |(St) likes a

cool, dark, comfortable place; his eyes|| | |cant take the Sn, at his

age. [A stretch of logic|| | |there!]

||---+---+----------------------||

|Mn |Flowing water, river, too unsteady an envt for the old|| | |man at

his age

||---+---+----------------------|| |Ma |Too

harsh an environment, too much huffnpuff all|| | |around, too hot (ref

St-Ve above)

||---+---+----------------------|As Gurudev

has disallowed by memorisation approach, I tried the aboveapproach. But

it seriously reads like stretched logic, using facts asconvenient, which I

don't think is what astrology is about. Is it?Anyone willing to help me?Yours

desparinglyNandan Terms of

Service.