Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Dear Das, Even though christians may not be able to merge Hindu and Christian thoughts, the Hindus have been successfully amalgating various diverse sects and cults over the ages. When Buddha's atheistic and non-traditional preachings started becoming popular, the Brahminical groups opposed it in whatever way they could. But, when buddhism was patronised by Kings, efforts were made to assimilate Buddhism with hinduism. Ultimately, Buddha was granted the status of an amsa-avatar of Vishnu, by Hindus. This way, he was acceptable to all. In the same way, imagine if Jesus, Bahaiullah, Mohammed, Moses, and all other prophets and religious leaders are made amsa-avatars of Vishnu. There can be only ten poorna-avatars of Vishnu, but numerous amsa-avatars. But, it is not as simple as that. It was easier to make Buddha an amsa avatar. He was born in same region, preached non-violence and love, spoke same language, the buddhists follow same cleanliness and purification rituals as hindus, they go bare feet in the temples, are vegetarian, and a lot many factors. Jesus was born in a different land and spoke different language, but he too preached love and non-violence. If the use of meat and wine are somehow adjusted, he can also be made into an amsa avatar. It is easy to categorise, differentiate and divide. It is a lot easier to similarise, affiliate and unite. The only requirement is a will to do so. Just find somethings which are common to both and emphasize on them. Regards, Ashutosh - Das Goravani valist Thursday, 11 May, 2006 04:37 Patricia meets Hinduism I'm just putting this up to introduce the new title of the thread.Use this email from now on for this thread.(Note: this is a joke I'm making)Reason: It's funny to watch someone with what I could call Christio-NewAgioidea of God to meet Hindus of the various types, and there are various typesof Hindus when it comes to "God", so to watch Patty dear meet them is reallyfunny, and vice versa...them deal with her....it's alot like tea parties theBritish had with their servants years ago on the lawns in India...veryconfused discussions, like two different planets meeting...: For software visit: Links<*> valist/<*> To from this group, send an email to: valist<*> Your use of is subject to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 5/11/06, astrologerashutosh <astrologerashutosh (AT) (DOT) fr> wrote: Dear Das, Even though christians may not be able to merge Hindu and Christian thoughts, the Hindus have been successfully amalgating various diverse sects and cults over the ages. When Buddha's atheistic and non-traditional preachings started becoming popular, the Brahminical groups opposed it in whatever way they could. But, when buddhism was patronised by Kings, efforts were made to assimilate Buddhism with hinduism. Ultimately, Buddha was granted the status of an amsa-avatar of Vishnu, by Hindus. This way, he was acceptable to all. In the same way, imagine if Jesus, Bahaiullah, Mohammed, Moses, and all other prophets and religious leaders are made amsa-avatars of Vishnu. There can be only ten poorna-avatars of Vishnu, but numerous amsa-avatars. But, it is not as simple as that. It was easier to make Buddha an amsa avatar. He was born in same region, preached non-violence and love, spoke same language, the buddhists follow same cleanliness and purification rituals as hindus, they go bare feet in the temples, are vegetarian, and a lot many factors. Jesus was born in a different land and spoke different language, but he too preached love and non-violence. If the use of meat and wine are somehow adjusted, he can also be made into an amsa avatar. It is easy to categorise, differentiate and divide. It is a lot easier to similarise, affiliate and unite. The only requirement is a will to do so. Just find somethings which are common to both and emphasize on them. Regards, Ashutosh - Das Goravani valist Thursday, 11 May, 2006 04:37 Patricia meets Hinduism I'm just putting this up to introduce the new title of the thread.Use this email from now on for this thread.(Note: this is a joke I'm making)Reason: It's funny to watch someone with what I could call Christio-NewAgioidea of God to meet Hindus of the various types, and there are various typesof Hindus when it comes to "God", so to watch Patty dear meet them is reallyfunny, and vice versa...them deal with her....it's alot like tea parties theBritish had with their servants years ago on the lawns in India...veryconfused discussions, like two different planets meeting...: For software visit: Links<*> valist/<*> To from this group, send an email to: valist <*> Your Visit your group "valist" on the web. valist Terms of Service .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Namaste What most Christian churches teach may not be exactly what Jesus intended, but "complete opposite"? Bharat, were you just exaggerating for emphasis or is this what you truly believe? What "Church" are you referring to -- and how recently have you attended "Church" to hear what is taught? Honestly, this sounds like a generalization based on common perception (misperception). Or maybe you would be willing to share with us what has been taught to you in "Church" and explain how that is the complete opposite of what Jesus intended? I attend Catholic churches when I visit some of my family members and find that the kernel of what is taught is essentially the same as what I get from other sources, though the language/vocabulary and the rituals are different. Perhaps the main thing that religions can be faulted with is that they divide people into groups and do not offer a broad view -- one has to step outside the religion to gain a broader understanding, otherwise some tend to view their rituals and beliefs as the only valid beliefs and expressions/offerings to the divine. However, in order to really appreciate a religion it is almost necessary to break through the ceiling that religions have and view the religion from a broader perspective. For instance, many Christians will say that it is only through Jesus that salvation is achieved. And I can go along with that, but only with the understanding that it is the supreme level of consciousness - "Christ consciousness" -- that Jesus embodied that is necessary to attain for salvation. So, to me, it is valid to for Christians to say this. Just as others may say that is it through their Guru that salvation is achieved. It is not the person, the individual, but rather the TRUTH/ PURE CONSCIOUSNESS/ WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT that is embodied by them. However, this TRUTH is inseperable from the individual who embodies it, so anyway you slice it, it is a valid statement to me. The problem with it is that it is so easily misunderstood. When Jesus said "I am the Light, the Way, the Truth" it is a true statement to me because I believe THAT was indeed who he was -- he was not identitified with the body or ego, but rather with this UNIVERSALLY available awareness that each of us has the potential to realize. Ultimately, if a particular way of expression resonates with one's heart and that is what provides solace and the experience of the divine then where is the problem? The problem arises only when we think our way is the best or only way and unfortunately, this kind of thinking is almost built-in because natually people think that what they are doing is the best, otherwise they wouldn't do it! However, such thinking is not confined to members of religions. Just as some here might say that Jyotish offers the best perspective for viewing Truth or that their particular approach to life is the best approach, ect. In Catholic church it is stated that "we acknowledge only one baptism...", ect. And this I do not like because it automatically divides people into groups -- those who were baptized in this particular way and those who weren't. So when attending church it is a mixed experience for me, I like celebrating the Divine as expressed through the life of Jesus, but I do not like some of the language used that automatically divides people. The last time I attended Catholic church and received communion, in stead of saying "AMEN" I almost said "OM NAMAH SHIVAYA" which to me has the same sentiment and which would have been a shock to the minister for sure, but when in Rome.... valist, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Ashutosh > > There has never been a problem to unite Jesus with Hinduism. There is > evidence that he studied both Tantra Hinduism and Buddhism and preached the > same. > > However, what Church preaches is complete opposite of what Jesus would have > probably taught or now which is being found out through the lost gospels and > Da Vinci Code. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 5/11/06, astrologerashutosh <astrologerashutosh wrote: > > > > Dear Das, > > > > Even though christians may not be able to merge Hindu and > > Christian thoughts, the Hindus have been successfully amalgating various > > diverse sects and cults over the ages. > > > > When Buddha's atheistic and non-traditional preachings started > > becoming popular, the Brahminical groups opposed it in whatever way they > > could. But, when buddhism was patronised by Kings, efforts were made to > > assimilate Buddhism with hinduism. > > > > Ultimately, Buddha was granted the status of an amsa- avatar of > > Vishnu, by Hindus. This way, he was acceptable to all. > > > > In the same way, imagine if Jesus, Bahaiullah, Mohammed, Moses, > > and all other prophets and religious leaders are made amsa- avatars of > > Vishnu. There can be only ten poorna-avatars of Vishnu, but numerous > > amsa-avatars. > > > > But, it is not as simple as that. It was easier to make Buddha an > > amsa avatar. He was born in same region, preached non-violence and love, > > spoke same language, the buddhists follow same cleanliness and purification > > rituals as hindus, they go bare feet in the temples, are vegetarian, and a > > lot many factors. > > > > Jesus was born in a different land and spoke different language, > > but he too preached love and non-violence. If the use of meat and wine are > > somehow adjusted, he can also be made into an amsa avatar. > > > > > > It is easy to categorise, differentiate and divide. It is a lot > > easier to similarise, affiliate and unite. The only requirement is a will to > > do so. Just find somethings which are common to both and emphasize on them. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > ** Das Goravani <> > > *To:* valist > > *Sent:* Thursday, 11 May, 2006 04:37 > > *Subject:* Patricia meets Hinduism > > > > > > > > I'm just putting this up to introduce the new title of the thread. > > > > Use this email from now on for this thread. > > > > (Note: this is a joke I'm making) > > > > Reason: It's funny to watch someone with what I could call > > Christio-NewAgio > > idea of God to meet Hindus of the various types, and there are various > > types > > of Hindus when it comes to "God", so to watch Patty dear meet them is > > really > > funny, and vice versa...them deal with her....it's alot like tea parties > > the > > British had with their servants years ago on the lawns in India...very > > confused discussions, like two different planets meeting... > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "valist <valist>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > valist<valist- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 You are free to disagree with me with or without reasons. I do not mind disagreement.Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 5/11/06, temp_spk4 < temp_spk4 > wrote:Namaste What most Christian churches teach may not be exactly what Jesusintended, but "complete opposite"? Bharat, were you justexaggerating for emphasis or is this what you truly believe?What "Church" are you referring to -- and how recently have you attended "Church" to hear what is taught? Honestly, this soundslike a generalization based on common perception (misperception).Or maybe you would be willing to share with us what has been taught to you in "Church" and explain how that is the complete opposite ofwhat Jesus intended?I attend Catholic churches when I visit some of my family membersand find that the kernel of what is taught is essentially the same as what I get from other sources, though the language/vocabulary andthe rituals are different. Perhaps the main thing that religionscan be faulted with is that they divide people into groups and donot offer a broad view -- one has to step outside the religion to gain a broader understanding, otherwise some tend to view theirrituals and beliefs as the only valid beliefs andexpressions/offerings to the divine.However, in order to really appreciate a religion it is almost necessary to break through the ceiling that religions have and viewthe religion from a broader perspective.For instance, many Christians will say that it is only through Jesusthat salvation is achieved. And I can go along with that, but only with the understanding that it is the supreme level ofconsciousness - "Christ consciousness" -- that Jesus embodied thatis necessary to attain for salvation. So, to me, it is valid to forChristians to say this. Just as others may say that is it through their Guru that salvation is achieved. It is not the person, theindividual, but rather the TRUTH/ PURE CONSCIOUSNESS/ WHATEVER YOUWANT TO CALL IT that is embodied by them. However, this TRUTH isinseperable from the individual who embodies it, so anyway you slice it, it is a valid statement to me. The problem with it is that itis so easily misunderstood.When Jesus said "I am the Light, the Way, the Truth" it is a truestatement to me because I believe THAT was indeed who he was -- he was not identitified with the body or ego, but rather with thisUNIVERSALLY available awareness that each of us has the potential torealize.Ultimately, if a particular way of expression resonates with one's heart and that is what provides solace and the experience of thedivine then where is the problem? The problem arises only when wethink our way is the best or only way and unfortunately, this kindof thinking is almost built-in because natually people think that what they are doing is the best, otherwise they wouldn't do it!However, such thinking is not confined to members of religions. Justas some here might say that Jyotish offers the best perspective forviewing Truth or that their particular approach to life is the best approach, ect.In Catholic church it is stated that "we acknowledge only onebaptism...", ect. And this I do not like because it automaticallydivides people into groups -- those who were baptized in this particular way and those who weren't. So when attending church itis a mixed experience for me, I like celebrating the Divine asexpressed through the life of Jesus, but I do not like some of thelanguage used that automatically divides people. The last time I attended Catholic church and received communion, instead of saying "AMEN" I almost said "OM NAMAH SHIVAYA" which to mehas the same sentiment and which would have been a shock to the minister for sure, but when in Rome....valist, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"<hinduastrology wrote:>> Namaskaar Sri Ashutosh >> There has never been a problem to unite Jesus with Hinduism. Thereis> evidence that he studied both Tantra Hinduism and Buddhism andpreached the> same.>> However, what Church preaches is complete opposite of what Jesus would have> probably taught or now which is being found out through the lostgospels and> Da Vinci Code.>> Thanks and Regards> Bharat>> On 5/11/06, astrologerashutosh <astrologerashutosh wrote: > >> > Dear Das,> >> > Even though christians may not be able to mergeHindu and> > Christian thoughts, the Hindus have been successfully amalgating various> > diverse sects and cults over the ages.> >> > When Buddha's atheistic and non-traditional preachingsstarted> > becoming popular, the Brahminical groups opposed it in whatever way they> > could. But, when buddhism was patronised by Kings, efforts weremade to> > assimilate Buddhism with hinduism.> >> > Ultimately, Buddha was granted the status of an amsa- avatar of> > Vishnu, by Hindus. This way, he was acceptable to all.> >> > In the same way, imagine if Jesus, Bahaiullah, Mohammed,Moses,> > and all other prophets and religious leaders are made amsa- avatars of> > Vishnu. There can be only ten poorna-avatars of Vishnu, butnumerous> > amsa-avatars.> >> > But, it is not as simple as that. It was easier to makeBuddha an > > amsa avatar. He was born in same region, preached non-violenceand love,> > spoke same language, the buddhists follow same cleanliness andpurification> > rituals as hindus, they go bare feet in the temples, are vegetarian, and a> > lot many factors.> >> > Jesus was born in a different land and spoke differentlanguage,> > but he too preached love and non-violence. If the use of meat and wine are> > somehow adjusted, he can also be made into an amsa avatar.> >> >> > It is easy to categorise, differentiate and divide. Itis a lot> > easier to similarise, affiliate and unite. The only requirement is a will to> > do so. Just find somethings which are common to both andemphasize on them.> >> >> > Regards,> >> > Ashutosh> > > >> >> >> >> >> > -> > ** Das Goravani <>> > *To:* valist > > *Sent:* Thursday, 11 May, 2006 04:37> > *Subject:* Patricia meets Hinduism> >> >> >> > I'm just putting this up to introduce the new title of the thread.> >> > Use this email from now on for this thread.> >> > (Note: this is a joke I'm making)> >> > Reason: It's funny to watch someone with what I could call > > Christio-NewAgio> > idea of God to meet Hindus of the various types, and there arevarious> > types> > of Hindus when it comes to "God", so to watch Patty dear meet them is> > really> > funny, and vice versa...them deal with her....it's alot like teaparties> > the> > British had with their servants years ago on the lawns inIndia...very > > confused discussions, like two different planets meeting...> >> >> >> > To , send an email to: > > http://www.goravani.com> > Links> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > For software visit: > >> >> > ------------------------------> > > >> >> > - Visit your group "valist< valist>"> > on the web.> >> > - To from this group, send an email to:> > valist<valist?subject=Un>> >> > - Terms of > > Service <>.> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> : For software visit: http://www.goravani.com! Groups Links <*> valist/<*> To from this group, send an email to: valist<*> Your use of is subject to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Bharat Namaste I do not know whether I agree or disagree with you. To me it was a broad statement that you made and perhaps if it was qualified with more specific information it would be more easily understood where you were coming from on that. There may be many things that are taught through the religions of Christianity that do not jive with what we know about Jesus's words and life. Just as there may be things taught within other religions that do not seem to jive with what their founders intended. I would not be surprised by that. There are many churches and, even from within a particular branch of Christianity, there may be various levels of understanding & life experiences that each individual brings to it and that each teacher speaks from. So, our experiences of what the "Church" teaches may vary considerably. However, I have always presumed (perhaps in error) that most Christian churches are built around the core teachings that Jesus taught by lecture and by example through out his exemplary life as recounted in the various gospels -- the same core teachings that are found in even the gospels recovered recently. Hence, the questions I posed of you. Many comments here appear to me to be written with out regard to whether another member may take it to be in bad taste and with out any astrological content. But, mostly, frankness is appreciated and non-astrological discussion is tolerated. Therefore, I feel there is a precedent for discussions such as this. However, I definitely understand and respect the decision not to delve further into this topic. valist, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri > > This discussion can end up in a bad taste and that too on an astrology list. > Let me just say, I have my reasons for saying what I did. I do not want > anyone to follow my understanding of the subject. > > You are free to disagree with me with or without reasons. I do not mind > disagreement. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 5/11/06, temp_spk4 <temp_spk4 wrote: > > > > Namaste > > > > What most Christian churches teach may not be exactly what Jesus > > intended, but "complete opposite"? Bharat, were you just > > exaggerating for emphasis or is this what you truly believe? > > What "Church" are you referring to -- and how recently have you > > attended "Church" to hear what is taught? Honestly, this sounds > > like a generalization based on common perception (misperception). > > Or maybe you would be willing to share with us what has been taught > > to you in "Church" and explain how that is the complete opposite of > > what Jesus intended? > > > > I attend Catholic churches when I visit some of my family members > > and find that the kernel of what is taught is essentially the same > > as what I get from other sources, though the language/vocabulary and > > the rituals are different. Perhaps the main thing that religions > > can be faulted with is that they divide people into groups and do > > not offer a broad view -- one has to step outside the religion to > > gain a broader understanding, otherwise some tend to view their > > rituals and beliefs as the only valid beliefs and > > expressions/offerings to the divine. > > > > However, in order to really appreciate a religion it is almost > > necessary to break through the ceiling that religions have and view > > the religion from a broader perspective. > > > > For instance, many Christians will say that it is only through Jesus > > that salvation is achieved. And I can go along with that, but only > > with the understanding that it is the supreme level of > > consciousness - "Christ consciousness" -- that Jesus embodied that > > is necessary to attain for salvation. So, to me, it is valid to for > > Christians to say this. Just as others may say that is it through > > their Guru that salvation is achieved. It is not the person, the > > individual, but rather the TRUTH/ PURE CONSCIOUSNESS/ WHATEVER YOU > > WANT TO CALL IT that is embodied by them. However, this TRUTH is > > inseperable from the individual who embodies it, so anyway you slice > > it, it is a valid statement to me. The problem with it is that it > > is so easily misunderstood. > > > > When Jesus said "I am the Light, the Way, the Truth" it is a true > > statement to me because I believe THAT was indeed who he was -- he > > was not identitified with the body or ego, but rather with this > > UNIVERSALLY available awareness that each of us has the potential to > > realize. > > > > Ultimately, if a particular way of expression resonates with one's > > heart and that is what provides solace and the experience of the > > divine then where is the problem? The problem arises only when we > > think our way is the best or only way and unfortunately, this kind > > of thinking is almost built-in because natually people think that > > what they are doing is the best, otherwise they wouldn't do it! > > However, such thinking is not confined to members of religions. Just > > as some here might say that Jyotish offers the best perspective for > > viewing Truth or that their particular approach to life is the best > > approach, ect. > > > > In Catholic church it is stated that "we acknowledge only one > > baptism...", ect. And this I do not like because it automatically > > divides people into groups -- those who were baptized in this > > particular way and those who weren't. So when attending church it > > is a mixed experience for me, I like celebrating the Divine as > > expressed through the life of Jesus, but I do not like some of the > > language used that automatically divides people. > > > > The last time I attended Catholic church and received communion, in > > stead of saying "AMEN" I almost said "OM NAMAH SHIVAYA" which to me > > has the same sentiment and which would have been a shock to the > > minister for sure, but when in Rome.... > > > > valist, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Ashutosh > > > > > > There has never been a problem to unite Jesus with Hinduism. There > > is > > > evidence that he studied both Tantra Hinduism and Buddhism and > > preached the > > > same. > > > > > > However, what Church preaches is complete opposite of what Jesus > > would have > > > probably taught or now which is being found out through the lost > > gospels and > > > Da Vinci Code. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > On 5/11/06, astrologerashutosh <astrologerashutosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Das, > > > > > > > > Even though christians may not be able to merge > > Hindu and > > > > Christian thoughts, the Hindus have been successfully amalgating > > various > > > > diverse sects and cults over the ages. > > > > > > > > When Buddha's atheistic and non-traditional preachings > > started > > > > becoming popular, the Brahminical groups opposed it in whatever > > way they > > > > could. But, when buddhism was patronised by Kings, efforts were > > made to > > > > assimilate Buddhism with hinduism. > > > > > > > > Ultimately, Buddha was granted the status of an amsa- > > avatar of > > > > Vishnu, by Hindus. This way, he was acceptable to all. > > > > > > > > In the same way, imagine if Jesus, Bahaiullah, Mohammed, > > Moses, > > > > and all other prophets and religious leaders are made amsa- > > avatars of > > > > Vishnu. There can be only ten poorna-avatars of Vishnu, but > > numerous > > > > amsa-avatars. > > > > > > > > But, it is not as simple as that. It was easier to make > > Buddha an > > > > amsa avatar. He was born in same region, preached non-violence > > and love, > > > > spoke same language, the buddhists follow same cleanliness and > > purification > > > > rituals as hindus, they go bare feet in the temples, are > > vegetarian, and a > > > > lot many factors. > > > > > > > > Jesus was born in a different land and spoke different > > language, > > > > but he too preached love and non-violence. If the use of meat > > and wine are > > > > somehow adjusted, he can also be made into an amsa avatar. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is easy to categorise, differentiate and divide. It > > is a lot > > > > easier to similarise, affiliate and unite. The only requirement > > is a will to > > > > do so. Just find somethings which are common to both and > > emphasize on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > ** Das Goravani <das@> > > > > *To:* valist > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, 11 May, 2006 04:37 > > > > *Subject:* Patricia meets Hinduism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just putting this up to introduce the new title of the > > thread. > > > > > > > > Use this email from now on for this thread. > > > > > > > > (Note: this is a joke I'm making) > > > > > > > > Reason: It's funny to watch someone with what I could call > > > > Christio-NewAgio > > > > idea of God to meet Hindus of the various types, and there are > > various > > > > types > > > > of Hindus when it comes to "God", so to watch Patty dear meet > > them is > > > > really > > > > funny, and vice versa...them deal with her....it's alot like tea > > parties > > > > the > > > > British had with their servants years ago on the lawns in > > India...very > > > > confused discussions, like two different planets meeting... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : valist- > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : valist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "valist > > <valist>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > valist<valist- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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