historical context enhances beauty of sacred texts- on parahsra vyaasa and veda

August 14, 2005

Dear friends

-----

Let me share some information I have learned from my revered teachers on Vedas.

You may accept it or may not accept it , but no harm in sharing with all even

though I think many of us would have known this because it is well known fact

in the relevant circle.

Vedavyaas was not the author of the Vedas as we all know. He only compiled and

classified the Vedas in a written form. Till the time of Parshara and

Vedavyaasa the Vedas were transmitted through oral tradition from generation to

generation – the pronunciations, meter , the chhanda – all were preserved with

greatest accuracy as a little deviation in any mantra was considered to be

disastrous .

At the times of Parashara and Vedavyaasa there was great controversy regarding

the validity of Atharva Veda as the 4th Veda. The greater of the schools was

seeing in contempt the school which used to impart Atharva Veda . They

considered Vedas as trayee ( meaning 3 fold) not accepting the 4th one that is

Atharva Veda in same sacredness as the other three. The cause was that Atharva

Veda contained many magical formulas and was considered ( according to the

opposot school) to address more towards the mundane affairs of man such as

healing, hypnotism, killing the enemies, casting spells ..so on and so forth.

So it was considered inferior by a large section of Brahmins who were supported

by the kings. Mahaatharvana Jabala was said to be the then propounder of

Atharva Veda.

It was also said in the beginning there was no such division in the Vedas . no

such classification ; latter because of certain need they were classified.

Therefore many hymns contained in Rig Veda could be found in Sama Veda. There

fore many think that Sama Veda is latter than Riks.. but all Vedas were of same

time such says the tradition.

Any way Parashara and latter Vedavyaasa tried to reconcile the controversy and

played a vital role in making friendship between two adverse schools of

thoughts.

The original name of Veda Vyaasa was Krishna Dwepaayana Vyaasa. Krishna:

because he was very dark in color, dwepaayana ; as he was born in a n island (

called dweepa in Sanskrit).

And he was used to be addressed to as Krishna dweepayana in his life time in

deference to Vaasudeva Krishna ( BHAGAWANA KRISHNA- THE LORD ) as both were

contemporary. Though Vedavyaasa was much senior in age than Vaasudeva Krishna.

Now as he observed that the memory and dhee-sahakty of the people are gradually

decreasing due to the effect of kaala ( time) and it would be no more be

possible for the humans to memorize the texts, he with his disciples set in to

performing this gigantic act of codifying and recording the Vedas in to written

form.

Because of this he became famous as VEDA VYAASA in a latter period.

Though Parashara Hora is the knowledge imparted by Parashara, it seems it was

recorded by some of his disciple after Parashara who may have done it from his

memory or other records.

For in the last chapter of Parashara Hora this verse appears towards end:

“THUS WAS NARRATED BY MAHARSHI PARSHARA TO MAITREYA, this extraordinary Hora

Sastra containing invaluable and uncommon material ancient on Astrology , for

the benefit of the people . after that it came into usage on the earth and

received reverence to all.”

So even though it was there before ,the present version seems to be a

re-recording of the original one.

It seems considering all aspects that all these were recorded in the beginning

of Kali and end of Dwapara. ( traditionally)

Gurudatta Dash

August 14, 2005

Dr. Gurudatta Dash wrote:

Though Parashara Hora is the knowledge imparted by Parashara, it seems it was

recorded by some of his disciple after Parashara

who may have done it from his memory or other records.

For in the last chapter of Parashara Hora this verse appears towards end:

“THUS WAS NARRATED BY MAHARSHI

PARSHARA TO MAITREYA, this extraordinary Hora Sastra

containing invaluable and uncommon material ancient on Astrology , for

the benefit of the people . after that it came into usage on the earth

and received reverence to all.”

So even though it was there before ,the present version seems to be a

re-recording of the original one.

It seems considering all aspects that all these were recorded in the beginning

of Kali and end of Dwapara. ( traditionally)

\

Dear Dr. Dash,

Thank you for this knowledgeable explanation and for more accurately stating

that Veda Vyas was the compiler, rather than the author, of the Vedas.

It is very difficult to get a straightforward answer on this subject , that is,

when did the present version of the Brihat Parashara Hora come into

existence in the written form and who recorded it as such. Westerners have

been criticized for the late dating of this text as this seems to denigrate the

idea of it's antiquity.

You have stated that "the present version seems to be a re-recording of

the original one." Is there a general consensus amongst Indian astrologers

that the text was therefore recorded around 3102 BCE? Do you think that

changes or additions have taken place over time to the original text?

Could the text have been recorded as late as the 7th century CE, without

necessarily taking away from the value or accuracy of Parashara's original

teachings?

Best wishes,

Steve

August 16, 2005

Dear Sri Steven,

As you have pointed out the exact date of the present Parashara Hora may never

be known. But we can have some deduction considering the various aspects of the

matters contained in the text itself.

First of all I want to impress on you the fact that the normal traditional

astrologers of India are more interested in mastering the subject than finding

the historical evidence of the Sastra just as we physicians are more

interested in the mastering the science of medicine and its historical

significance only comes to us secondarily.

It is when the British people during their rule based on their prejudice and

little understanding of the Sastras with half-knowledge of Sanskrit tried to

give unreasonably wrong dates and tried to distort the original meaning of

Sastras , that the intellectual English knowing astrologers tried to find out

“evidence” of the antiquity of the various Aryaan sciences including YOTISH.

Other wise if you would study the diff. ancient and even recent classics like

Jataka Tatwa ( 18th century), you would find no reference to the history of the

science directly. The antiquity of the science was so well-known among the

scholars that they concentrated more on rectifying what was lost in the travel

over thousands of yerasor seem unreasonable at that time compared to ancient

teachings.

Let us take this verse from VraahaMihira where he gives his opinion after giving

some combinations astronomically impossible, for example Sun and mercury

separated by 4 houses.

PURBASAASTRAANUSAARENA MAYAA BAJRAADYAA KRUTAH.

CATURTHA BHABANE SUROJNYOSIAU BHABATAH KATHAM:

He says:

I have given these Vajra Yoga etc. in accordance with the ancient sciences , but

how can Budha ( mercury ) and Sukra ( Venus) be in 4th house from Surya (Sun)

..?

Commenting on theses verses it is said that at the time of Maharshis who

originally gave the Yoga , it was possible because of astronomical reasons and

now it is not possible because of constantly shifting positions of planets and

Sun. over the time.If it were so then that age must be very very ancient and

that, VraahaMihira accepts the combination , gives importance to it also

saying that now it is not possible proves his acceptance of a very ancient

origin of the system of astrology.

However coming to your question as to when this present version of Parashara

hora originated : we have to examine 3 points :

1)when exactly Parashara said it in this form that is the time of Parashara and Maitreya.

2) the time of him who recorded the conversations

3) the present form as we have received today.

As you must be knowing all the Saastras ascribed to VedaVyaas are re-recorded in

the form on conversations. For example the Mahabharata was originally composed

by Veda Vyaasa . He propounded it to his son Suka . And then his disciple

VAISMPAAYANA. The latter retold it to Jamnejaya who was the Grandson of Arjuna

the brother of Yudhisthira. That means he is the 3rd generation from King

YUDHISTHIRA of Mahabharata war. It is described in the epic that when he was

expounding the Mahabharata Kaavya to King Janmejaya , there was present a sage

whose name was UPASHRABAA. He had gifted with phenomenal power of memory and

remembered the exact verses as told by Vaisaampaayana . He is otherwise known

as SUTA. SUTA then traveled many places all over India and at last went to a

place called Naimaeshyaaranya where a great Yagnya ( sacrifice) was arranged

by sage Saunaka.

There when requested by the participant sages he described the Mahabharata. And

the present Mahabharata is that from as delivered by Suta. There fore you can

see the original composition before becoming recorded did travel through one or

two generation before being written down and distributed in public. All most all

the scriptures come in to written form at that time which was the beginning

period of kali era. It may be that some of them being lost in time and again

rerecorded in a latter time.

Now why it was so? As we have discussed earlier in those days people depended

more on memory than written form , the written form was given preference when

the Kali Era progressed , for because of lack of discipline and conduct as

enjoined by DHARMA , the people’ s memory was not as before. Now a yogi has

phenomenal memory. You may not believe it but it is true. I have seen my

spiritual mentor remembering things just at a glance and reproducing the exact

stanza even after 5 Years. You may not believe it but no harm in knowing the

information.

So let us go back to Parashara Hora. Parashara surely did not write it down

himself as Brihat Jatak was written by VraahaMihira with his own hand. Had it

been so it would not have its name as Parashara Hora. Because no person even

if slightly spiritually evolved would like to choose to name his composition in

his name, at least that is not the tradition of spiritual and ancient India.

Also it is recorded a dialogue between Parashara and Maitreya . In which a verse reads

“With the said Raj Yog relationship of the said Grahas in

Simhasanāńś were born Harish Candr, Manu, Bali, Agni Deva and

many emperors. In the present Yuga so born is Yudhishtira (Dharm Raj of

Mahabharat). Vikramaaditya’s birth and that of others will also come with this

Yog.”

Now let us take it is at it is. So when it was said Harischandra, etc. were past

Yudhisthira was present. And Vikramaaditya was future. So the original

composition seem to be in the last part of Dwapara near about the time of

Mahabharata war.

It also mentions Sri Rama , the emperor of AYODHYAA as past in some earlier verse.

Also in he Astakavarga Adhyaaya Maitreya asks :

“O lord you have described many kinds o f effects relating to the planets and

Bhavas***** as because in the Kali Era people are sinful and of dull-intellect

, please narrate me the methods by which they can also be benefited ( the

translation is not literal only carries meaning). “

That means very near Kali.

Now let us take another verse from Prabaryaa ( Renunciation ) Adhyaaya and a

similar verse from VraahaMihira for comparison

Parashara speaks of Tapaswi, Kapali, Ekdandee, Yati, Cakra- Dhara, Nirganthika

as different forms of Ascetics in accordance with Planets Nature.

In a similar verse varahamihira speaks of Shaakya, Jeevak, Vikkhyu,Vriddha,

Guru, Caraka, Nirgantha, Vivaasa, Vaanaprastha according to the planet.

Now I want to point out one difference Saakya, Jeevak, Vikkhyu for ascetics came

to be used only after Gautam Budhha and Mahabira Jina largely.

So one may presume that former was before Buddha and another latter was after Buddha..

Now let us move on to more concrete form of evidence:

Bahttopaal the commentator of Varaahamihira s diff work says he completed his

commentary on Brihat Jaatak in Saka year 888.

There is a little controversy to which Saka he refers Vikrama or Salibahana. If

we take the former his date comes to 832 AD . If you take the latter it comes

to 964 AD.

It appears that he refers to the earlier saka of Vikarama that was established

after his conquest of Saka or Mlechhas , for in his commentaries of Brihat

Samhita he himself converts the saka year from the era established by

Vikramaaditya. Also after him Bhasaakraaacaarya refers to Nripashaka or

Vikramaaditya where he clearly refers to the sakas being defeated by

Vikramaaditya and the beginning of Saka era from that period.

Whatever it may be the great Vikramaaditya in whose court VraahaMihira was along

with Kaalidasa and other great masters called Nava Ratna ( nine gems) ruled in

50 to 100 BC. Though some of previous British influence place him and

VraahaMihira in 500 AD.

VARAHAMAIHIRA speaks of four illustrious authorities whom he cared for and gives

importance : Maya, Yavana, Manitha and SAKTIPPUTA ( the son of Sakti that is

Parashara, Parashara was the son of Sakti and grandson of Vasistha.)

They seem to be the established authorities at that time and then must be quite

ancient to him.

But he speaks about Vishnugupata ( Caanayaka of Chandra Gupta s rule who was

ruling at the same time Alexander tried unsuccessfully to invade India latter

part of 4th century B C) and also criticizes him . So while Chaanayaka seems

not very ancient , the other four are already established s authorities and

seem very ancient to him.

This Yavana mentioned by Brihat Jataak is otherwise called Vidhha Yabaana ( old

Yavana) in difference to one Yavanaachaarya who seems to be contemporary of

Varahamihira whose opinion was sometimes criticized by him.

Now Bhattopaala writes that he is unfortunate not to have with him a copy of

Parashara Hora , while he quotes a verse from Parashara who is again quoted by

some ancient authority. He says he has a copy of Parashara Samhita.

So it seems that the work of Parashara belong to a very ancient time and most

probably recorded at the time beginning of Kali and was also lost (was not

available to common man: may be a better term) in some intermediate period and

again revived latter .

So your opinion that the present copy we are studying may be written in a much

latter period while the original text contained in it is of very ancient

origin may be valid .Because oral transmission by generations was so effective

and given impotence to that the written form of language was of secondary

importance to then people whose memory was very sharp and strangely phenomenal.

Till date many texts which we have learnt from our fathers or forefathers

because we inherit them in genetics are not in written form or has been

written to publications only recently.

As per as interpolation is concerned people who used to study the text and

transmit were very careful esp about the ancient text . And you may feel it

surprised to learn that more errors are possible while copying in written form

than transmission though generation wise by oral speech as was the tradition.

Now it is not that we are the first generation to study Parashara Hora, before

us it has passed though thousands of generations who have studied it and

applied it , evaluated it far more carefully and efficiently we can dreamt of,

as many of them are themselves very able astronomers and astrologers with

uncanny power of prediction and intelligence and wisdom before whom we are but

pigmies of insignificance. In Hindu tradition no one how high he may be was

immune from criticism and error finding.

As I have already told earlier in this letter, VraahaMihira himself gives his

objection at certain places to astronomical impossibilities but have accepted

it saying that it may be possible at the time when it was written by Maharshis.

And also astrology is a practical science and as u can see from Parashara to BV

RAMAN of present day, standard astrological rules remain unchanged and so

chances of interpolation seems very remote.

However as the text is so ancient and does not come under the SHRUTIS we can

never rule out the chance of errors completely but to presume that there must

be errors or interpolation as is the practice with many western academicians

would be far from giving justice to them.

However the standard techniques of correction was relevant and was given effect

to at that time as is evident form VraahaMihira s verse:

“If my work suffers in its travel and copying, the readers must set errors right

by referring them to the most learned. They must also correct my errors, which

I may have committed, by my negligence, or by misapprehension of the originals

without envy or mean jealousy.”

Having said so let me come back to you question of beginning of Kali Yuga as

most ancient authors refers to this s time scales but this standard to which

westerners of earlier times have given little or no importance.

Al most all learned scholars of India and some of abroad who had investigated

in to the matter deeply and carefully are unanimous in their observation that

Kali Yuga started about 3102 B C or very near to that basing on the solid and

reliable astronomical data the result of which almost tallied with traditional

recorded history.

The Vernal Equinox was in star Krittika at the beginning of Kali Yuga. This

was fought at the end of Dwapara Yuga: this is mentioned in the ADI PARAVA of

Mahabharata. ( 2-13) in Vana Parva ( 149-38) we are told that Kali Era would

start shortly. In Shalwa Parva ( 60-2) it is said that the war began before

Kali Started. Yudhistira ruled for 33 years. After him Kali started. The war

started in a month when two eclipses occurred in a span of one lunar month.

Jupiter and other planets along with Rahu were in star in Visakhaa (6-3-27).

The position of planets before and after the war is mentioned.

Mercury and Venus along with mars were together at that time of along with

Jupiter , sun, moon, mercury and Rahu . Only Saturn was in Scorpio. Most of

planets were in Libra in a straight line. This agrees with the position for

3142 B.C.

There is also reference two other planets Sweta and Mahapata . And it is said

that Mahapata was in star Chitta . Some say that they may be Uranus and

Neptune.

One of the greatest astronomer and mathematician, Aryabhatt, was born in 476 AD.

He finished his book “Aryabhattiya” in 499 AD in which he gives the exact year

of the beginning of kaliyug. He writes,

“When the three yugas (satyug, tretayug and dwaparyug) have elapsed and 60 x 60

(3,600) years of kaliyug have already passed, I am now 23 years old.”

It means that in the 3,601st year of Kali era he was 23 years old. Aryabhatt was

born in 476 AD. Thus, the beginning of kaliyug comes to 3,601 - (476 + 23) =

3102 BC.

There was a record called Harishchandra Chandrika and Mohan Chandrika” which

came to light in about 1872 AD.

The description is detailed to year-month-days of each and every king who ruled.

By adding the total number of years of the four dynasties from Yudhishthir to

Vikramaditya, it comes to 3,148 years which is 3111 Kali era or 9 AD, which

represents the date when Vikramaditya left this earth planet. Vikramaditya

ruled Hastinapur for 93 years from 83 BC to 9 AD. Accordingly, the date for the

Mahabharat war comes to (3148 – 9 = 3139 BC).

According to the Bhavishya Puran and Rajtarangini, Vikramaditya lived between

102 BC and 15 AD; and according to the above details his period ends by 9 AD.

There is only a difference of 6 years in the date-wise record of 70 kings who

ruled Hastinapur for 3,055 years. A discrepancy of 6 years in 3,000 years of

record could be a copying or printing mistake, and is thus negligible when

dealing with a longer span of years.

So as you can see there are very similarities between various evidences and

point to the beginning of Kali Yuga and Mahabharata war a little more than

three thousand years before Christ.

Now to overlook and disregard all these as the time span looks very long to

some people who disbelieve it therefore would certainly be a foolish act.

Surely the history of human race is much longer than is understood or imagined today.

This reminds me of a quote from Sherlock Homes ,whose meaning is “when you

remove what is impossible , what remains even if unbelievable is but the truth”

many thanks for you great patience in reading this lengthy letter:

best wishes

Gurudatta Dash

-

Steven Stuckey

valist

Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:17 PM

Re: historical context enhances beauty of sacred texts- on parahsra vyaasa and veda

Dear Dr. Dash,Thank you for this knowledgeable explanation and for more

accurately stating that Veda Vyas was the compiler, rather than the author, of

the Vedas.It is very difficult to get a straightforward answer on this subject

, that is, when did the present version of the Brihat Parashara Hora come into

existence in the written form and who recorded it as such. Westerners have

been criticized for the late dating of this text as this seems to denigrate the

idea of it's antiquity. You have stated that "the present version seems to be a

re-recording of the original one." Is there a general consensus amongst Indian

astrologers that the text was therefore recorded around 3102 BCE? Do you think

that changes or additions have taken place over time to the original text?Could

the text have been recorded as late as the 7th century CE, without necessarily

taking away from the value or accuracy of Parashara's original teachings?Best

wishes,Steve

August 17, 2005

Dear Dr Dash and Steve,